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The Tradesman’s Return

“Trades-unions, composed of the workmen in the different trades, were recognized in the time of the (first Roman) monarchy, and no effort was ever made to dissolve them, until they began to exert a political influence.” (R. W. Husband; Legislation against Political Clubs during the Republic).

By the time of the return to Roman Imperial governance with Julius Caesar, these Unions or Guilds were banned by decree … seen as “dangerous to public order.” It is now time for them to return WITH political power to RESTORE public order.

First, let me assure the reader that by “Tradesman”, I am referring to a gender-neutral title … there are many of both genders now working hand-in-hand toward the one end: “The workers united, will NEVER be defeated!”

Over the last millennia, while the Aristocracy, then the Military, then the Oligarchical upper-middle classes have fooled about with their power base, debauching, slaughtering and fiddling with both populations and economies, till we see evidence of their gormless incompetence literally screwing up the entire environment of our planet, driving a huge percentage of its denizens into refugee status and yet STILL proclaiming brazenly from all its various media platforms that THEY … and THEY ALONE are the best managers of political and economic outcomes.

WHAT AN ABSOLUTE EFFING LOAD OF BULLSHIT!

Look at just the century past … At the start of the century, we had the last remnants of the inbred aristocracy drag us into their world war of pride and pomp and ceremony that claimed the lives of millions of young people … and then with the next world war, we get the rising middle-classes dragging us into their war of economic opportunity that claimed the lives of millions more. And since then, we have had an unending parade of greater or lesser conflicts and skirmishes for in most cases nothing more than political / economic or religious (the high priests of capitalism) ideology.

All these “players” that want to drive their peoples or other nation’s citizens into a game of monopoly control of either cheap labour or cheap raw commodities, come from the one central class … the non-producing, non-productive middle / upper-middle classes … NOT the trades, NOT the farmers or producers, NOT the service / health carers classes … ALL … if not in actual position, then in aspiration toward the upper-middle classes.

It is time to put an end to this madness.

The representative bodies and unions of the producing classes have both the right and the capability to govern and manage production and economies. The rise in numbers of the educated working classes to sustain and improve the functioning capabilities of a society BEYOND personal individual grandiose statements, would result in an improved social status for ALL citizens of the State.

This is not just a pipe dream, an attempt at persuasion toward socialism or communism. We can now look to see which Nation States that exist as an example of civil governance that best caters for its particular peoples and which operate in a state of absolute mayhem. We do not need to copy in exact detail those governments … indeed, such would be foolhardy, some having enormous population control challenges, some having long histories of conflict with bordering neighbour nations … etc. What we here in Australia need to look to is that ideal which gives the average citizen access to infrastructure, education, health and secure employment that offers dignity of life and security of lifestyle. We are definitely NOT getting either from the continued rapine of our resources and working young and those whose health situation is vulnerable.

The trade / working class representative unions, coupled with the true “On the Land” farmers and producers … along with engineering and scientific research bodies can lift the nation out of the greedy clutches of an anachronistic strangulation of the conservative upper-middle class oligarchs, who have secured for their own riches, their own wants and scheming, the machinery of State. Their rusted and seized intellects no longer have the spark of imagination to set in motion a new world opportunity of “Equality, Fraternity, and Liberty” … Theirs is no more than a dark dungeon of despair, deprivation and desperation.

“Away with all pests!”

There is a measure of undeniable certainty by which to gauge the honest intent of a person’s capability to envisage, oversee and manage a situation, particularly if that situation requires knowledge of planning, supply, needs-base and results. That person may not need to oversee the entire go-to-whoa job, but they do need to have practical insight to envision or to pass over to others WITH PROVEN ABILITY to manage the project. This is where “factory-floor” experience is vital. It is in the space between proposal and approval that the “job-skills” of government members come into their own.

The upper-middle and even some of the old middle-class management styles are both inadequate and incapable of seeing long-term requirements of infrastructure needs above their “consciousness of kind” colleagues who lobby them incessantly for financial or political favour that benefits only their own class but is paid for and in the long run suffered by the producing classes.

Corruption, deceit, fraud and dishonesty are the hallmarks of this decayed and debauched class that has over time worked its favoured sons and daughters into positions of power and influence in both governance and authority. People who, in many cases have little knowledge or capacity to do a half-decent job. The one thing you cannot fake, unlike the “fake it till you make it” middle-class brigade that in the end never really “makes it” at all, or else makes a complete botch up of the whole job! … witness the NBN, the NDIS, the ABCC, ASIC, ACCC, the Productivity Commission, the Fairwork Commission and Government itself!! … we could go on … the only thing you cannot fake is hard work … honest application to create out of raw materials, be they animal, vegetable, mineral or human … is that end result that is visible, tangible and applicable in a practical sense … NOT some will-o-the-wisp rubbish that is only “funded-for-fun” for speculators and investors seeking profit above utility … profit above people. The producing classes can and do deliver the staple infrastructure that is the foundation, the building blocks, structural design and finishing touch to the WHOLE of society! It is the working trades that are the backbone of production and living standards of ALL societies in any time in history … All religious / ethical beliefs follow from them … and ought to give credence to them and in the end offer thanks to them.

We have seen the damage that the unskilled and unqualified can do … It is time to go one better … it is time for The Tradesman’s Return.

53 comments

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  1. Shaun Newman

    Beautifully written as usual Joe. Spot on!

  2. Joseph Carli

    Thank you Shaun…you critical analysis, though condensed, is ..as usual..spot on!….appreciated.

  3. New England Cocky

    Well argued Joseph, your call, “We have seen the damage that the unskilled and unqualified can do … It is time to go one better” says it all about the present LIarbral Notional$ misgovernments in Canberra and NSW.

  4. David Bruce

    Imagine politicians being assessed on performance based on competency? My pilot training was competency based in the belief that if you can’t take off, do a circuit, and land, with your instructor, you can’t fly solo! Same applies for your driver’s licence!

    The upper class claim they have learned how to make money work for them, instead of them working for money. Maybe if people were taught at school, how to generate multiple income streams, every one could be wealthy?

    I remember a movie called The Admirable Crichton with Kenneth More, Diane Cilento and others. William Crichton is the efficient butler in the London household of the Earl of Loam and his family. Crichton knows his place in the highly class-conscious English society.

    As luck would have it, they all get stranded on an uninhabited island in the South Seas.

    After two years, the social order has been completely upended: Crichton, now affectionately known as “the Guv”, is in charge, while his former betters are his servants. In fact, the aristocrats have toughened up admirably and are quite content with their lot.

    I wonder if we can scale this up to a whole continent?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Admirable_Crichton_(1957_film)

  5. Diannaart

    My sister got her ticket as an electronics technician and worked in the industry for 20 years, she has since completed a teaching degree and teaches science, maths, electronics and wood working at secondary level. Dirty rotten middleclass sell-out she turned out to be, according to the Carli “middle class are all evil” mantra.

    PS

    “Tradies”, “workers”, “unionists” are all straight forward “gender neutral” terms – no need to make a big deal out of:

    First, let me assure the reader that by “Tradesman”, I am referring to a gender-neutral title …

  6. Joseph Carli

    Always looking for trouble, eh, Dianna…?

  7. Karen Kyle

    I dunno Joe, blessed if I do.The dictatorship of the proletariat didn’t work out well did it? Take the excruciating Ceasescus pair for example. The Soviets found a nobody……put him in a suit and gave him control of a whole country. It was an unqualified disaster. And now Trump has put a Fox News personality in the role of USA Ambassador to the UN. The most important diplomatic post in the USA and maybe the world and the leader of US diplomats. And she is a journo with no foreign correspondent qualifications but she is good looking. Does Trump expect that to help?

    And I don’t know how Guilds were in Italy, but in England they were not the ancestral organisations of Unions. They were the self regulating craft and trade organisations. Membership included the Master Tradies and the big merchants. They set prices and regulated who and how many came into the trades. And they guarded trade secrets so they couldn’t be easily replicated and cheaper goods made by outsiders.

  8. Diannaart

    Not at all, Joseph

    I do not control your responses to anything, you manage that all by yourself.

  9. Kronomex

    “WHAT AN ABSOLUTE EFFING LOAD OF BULLSHIT!” ruined what was otherwise a pretty good article. You might want to consider dropping lines like that from future articles.

  10. Joseph Carli

    And yet, Karen…here’s YOU…apparently a “qualified all ’rounder ” giving certainty to every comment you make…and I say ; welcome…welcome to the club!…I’d put you at the door checking ID’s and giving every entrant the once-over with that “wall-eye” of yourn…and I damn well know you could be counted upon to not let ONE fake disco-queen past!

    And anyway…my idea of a ; “Dictatorship of the Proletariat” would not demand super efficiency, just a thoroughness of class-cleansing!….the rest will take care of itself!…….Just like Cuba.

  11. Joseph Carli

    Kronomex…let’s make a deal…I’ll leave time-keeping to you and your excellent Mexican stop-watch..you leave my choice of words I use to me….deal?

  12. Kronomex

    “If you must know where Kronos comes from then look up https://study.com/academy/lesson/kronos-the-titan-in-greek-mythology.html
    There you go, you can go happily to your grave knowing that it’s not “a supremely accurate Mexican stop-watch” as you put it.”

    Sigh, you really are petty petulant little man. Can’t even take what was a small piece of constructive criticism.

  13. Joseph Carli

    Kronomex…you need a hobby…can I suggest you try “Scientology for beginners”…

  14. Kronomex

    And there’s the spiteful little child who lurks just under the skin I expected.

    Let me guess, you did a search and found that I post to a couple of anti-$camology sites and thought you would make another failed attempt at being funny? Now all you need to is post a link to one one of them and your “hilarious” jape will be complete.

  15. Roswell

    Joseph, was that really necessary? Kronomex liked your post with the exception of one sentence. To attack him or her for it not only discourages the sharing of opinions, but is poor form.

  16. Jesus From Above

    I agree with Joseph.I did some very dodgy Carpentry in my time. Though I was focused on other issues.Go forth my Son. Greatest will

    be bestowed upon you.Just don’t mention The Money Changers.

  17. Joseph Carli

    Roswell…I have been under attack of one form or another by “Kronomex” for God knows how long…His snarky stabs have been coming left, right and centre…If it pleases you, I can collate them or you can go back over them yourself..listen..I have no trouble with most posters and commentators…I believe (I’m not counting) I have over 1000 followers on Twitter who have ALL sought me out, not the other way around…not that I am churlish but just that I never think of these things like ‘following”…I get Diaannart , Corvus Boreus and other forgettable names wanting to pick fights all the time…Maybe YOU are more likeable a poster than myself…bless your cotton socks for it..but after a string of abusive comments from Krono’ all this week, I am supposed to suddenly let my guard down and thank him for his shared wisdom on tips for writing an article…well…c’mon…it hasn’t rained here for months and I didn’t come down in THAT last shower!

    And..as a lesson passed back to Kronomex..I would point out that the “offending sentence” that he quoted must have had an exemplary effect on him that it stood out as a poignant “catch-phrase” that he could hang the rest of the article from…..SUCCESS!

  18. Roswell

    Did Kronomex attack you in this post? No. It looks to me as though he/she was being polite.

  19. Joseph Carli

    ” Did Kronomex attack you in this post? No.”……Hang on, Roswell…hang on a sec…Krono’ hurled some really nasty bits at me the last couple of days…some really nasty stuff…now, in all fairness…I ask..: If your next door neighbour..for whatever unknown reason…hurls insults at you all week, do you approach him down at the shopping mall, go over and slap him on the back like a long-lost friend and shout him a beer?….

    Don’t get me wrong, Roswell…I appreciate you playing the role of diplomat…of “peace-maker” an all that..I won’t include “father-confessor” in those titles, as I don’t have anything to confess…But both Krono’ and I are big people now an’ I reckon we can sort this out like grown ups….an if not..I’ll kick his shins!

    And thank you, Jesus…bad carpentry, eh?…but then…they paid YOU back, didn’t they?

  20. Kaye Lee

    What attributes or skills would be desirable in a political leader?

    Honesty, integrity, compassion, flexibility, resilience, equanimity…

    The ability to read and digest a large amount of material on a multitude of topics, to listen to constructive criticism, to prioritise, to consult and to persuade….

    A calm and reassuring confidence about how to handle problems as they arise….

    I have never felt class or occupation relevant.

  21. Joseph Carli

    Kaye Lee…I reckon I can safely claim that those attributes you have listed above have NEVER existed at the one time in ANY political leader in known history…..All new systems of governance is chance..even a predictable political party can turn like a viper and poison good governance…as we have seen here of late…But one thing is certain…the status quo can not be static for too long..and if we are going to have revolutionary change even at the ballot box, I say let us have REAL change and replace a known failing class with a work-skills qualified new class.

    After all..what have we really got to lose?

  22. Karen Kyle

    Joseph…..you are not making any sense We have had good leaders with the above characteristics, not enough of them to be sure but they are not that rare..

  23. Roswell

    I’d say that Julia Gillard came close.

  24. Kaye Lee

    Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandella, the Dalai Lama….

    Angela Merkhel, Barrack Obama, Julia Gillard, Gough Whitlam….

    No-one is perfect but I believe these people have shown those attributes.

  25. Jesus

    Joseph; We used to have a man in our village like Roswell.He meant well though he never ever left the village.

  26. Joseph Carli

    With all due respect to the above mentioned..AND yes..they did serve to the best of their perceived knowledge and honesty………But friends…yes..that’s you here….surely we are all too far traveled on this road of overt and covert political intrigue to be blinded to the knowledge that behind every “Great Leader”, there is a team of ‘cleaners and dusters” who go about their jobs diligently “knocking the sharp edges off” hurtful imagery and harmful innuendo..

    All power to those above..I would not hurl stones in their direction, and I have appreciated the brilliant policies of several of them…still do…but just like the many of us who escape tricky situations with nary a portion of the blame that COULD be leveled at us, I should imagine there were moments when beads of sweat crossed the brow of more than a couple there..

  27. Kronomex

    “And..as a lesson passed back to Kronomex..I would point out that the “offending sentence” that he quoted must have had an exemplary effect on him that it stood out as a poignant “catch-phrase” that he could hang the rest of the article from…..SUCCESS!”

    Amazing, you call that a success? It was a rather well written article that was spoiled by a loud grating and unnecessary sentence. You remind me lot of a poster by the name of Foolproof on one the anti-$camology sites I look at. He doesn’t like criticism and becomes as petty and petulant as you do and when it becomes too much out comes the victim card.

    I have more respect for Karen than I will ever have for you even if I have taken potshots at her. You, however, still remain obnoxious and seem unable to take any criticism without construing it as some sort of attack. Jeez, you really are full of your own self-importance. This time I’m not resorting to sarcasm.

    “…but after a string of abusive comments from Krono’ all this week, I am supposed to suddenly let my guard down and thank him for his shared wisdom on tips for writing an article…well…c’mon…it hasn’t rained here for months and I didn’t come down in THAT last shower!” A touch of paranoia lurking there Joseph when you can’t even accept the fact that I paid you a compliment without leaping to the completely wrong assumption that I was having a go at you. Would you like me to stop making any further compliments and just stick to sticking it to you? Entirely up to you.

  28. Shaun Newman

    Where do workers get the misguided impression that they are “middle class” when in reality they are “working class” anyone who must get out of bed to go to work to earn a living is “working class” whether they are a labourer or a doctor. Bloody hell, why do people have to evade the truth on a consistent basis?

  29. Joseph Carli

    Am in total agreeance with you on that , Shaun…It baffles me that some tradies seem to think they are of the “middle-class” when they only get paid “piece-work”…I would also agree that even a doctor employed as a clinical doctor in a general hospital is working-class, as they are dependent on a scheduled attendance at a place of employment.

  30. Karen Kyle

    Joseph…..some tradies are middle class. They own their own businesses and make healthy amounts of money. Especially builders and developers who may end up millionaires. If you scratch them there is a working class man and family underneath, living basically the same kind of life as most of us without household help and so on.

    Doctors as professionals are not working class.

  31. Roswell

    Jesus (!),

    This was posted by one of the site owners yesterday:

    There’s one group of people who work for The AIMN that deserve a little help …

    Every post, whether it be Kaye’s, Rossleigh’s, Binoy’s, Joseph’s … anybody’s … sees them taking to Facebook and Twitter to promote the post. Each post takes them a half an hour. We pay them to do this, but they bring lots of new readers and commenters to the site.

    Their work and great efforts are wasted if the commenters are turned away if they are mistreated here.

    We enjoy debate and the sharing of opinions. But we also enjoy respect.

    My job is to enforce it.

    Please feel free to take it up with the owners if you don’t like it.

  32. Matters Not

    Seems as though the “class” concept is under discussion.(LOL). Folks it’s all very simple – the tall ones are in the upper class – the shorter ones are in the lower class while those in between are in the middle class. QED.

    Or perhaps there might be a rational discussion where people define what they mean by class? You know – outline some of the variables considered when deciding what class categories are ‘useful’ (in an explanatory sense) and what components should be considered in the composition of such categories such as – income, wealth, education level, status, prestige, power, authority, et al and various combinations of same.

    And feel free because those who work professionally with the class concept change their definition(s) over time. Further, the workable definitions vary considerably across cultures.

    But probably not.

  33. Diannaart

    Roswell

    Respect is a 2 way street.

    *”I get Diaannart , Corvus Boreus and other forgettable names wanting to pick fights all the time…”

    https://goo.gl/images/JcGah3

  34. Barry Thompson.

    People, don’t bugger up a great site by being petty with one another.
    Allow others to declare and share their opinions without getting nasty.

  35. Albert Lord

    A great sentiment Joseph, trouble is the tradesmen need to act swiftly. Why do you think that the expedited development of self building / self servicing autonomous robots is at the forefront of technology. Don’t think for one minute it’s to for yours or My benefit, no it’s so “they” can do without tradesmen all together.

  36. Mark Needham

    This class struggle, is all rubbish. Virtue, should be earnt, not given. I am a “Night soil man” therefore I am more virtuous. I am a Billionaire whatever, more virtuous…….as I said bullshit.

    The person, not the class.
    Mark Needham

  37. Pilot

    Stone the bloody crows!!! With all the arguing and failure to agree, I think I’ve just stumbled on the LNP’s secret hidey hole!!

    Back up, settle down you mob!! Geez louize!! I mean we’re all here to support each other, not rip each others’ throats out.

    I’m working class, brought up in a middle class household, and I’ve never consider myself as such! Working class rules!! The LNP, imho have no right to govern, they have shown themselves to be liars, fraudsters, misogynists, bigots and self-centred arseholes. They consider themselves the only part capable of governing our country, but they have proven that they are not capable of governing this country. Voters will punish them. Why do obvious lefties sit here trying to decapitate each other.

    The insult trading, arguments and stating of false facts here ON THIS PAGE, have shown that we are not capable of any bloody thing!!

    Yes, I’m firing a personal shot across ALL bows. I hate to my bones some of the comments here, they bloody disgust me and those responsible should think hard about where their loyalties lie. I’m not calling out a single person but a group of so-called humane people…… So-called be stuffed, downright RWNJs.

    Support Australians working for Australia, not the thieving, lying, self-centred ar*eholes currently misgoverning OUR country or their corrupt mates.

    For the record, yes, I am a tradesman, an electrician, an engine driver, truck driver and agricultural pest controller, injured and thrown out of the workforce, and I say to all you bloody over-schooled, self-righteous pricks pushing your own carts filled with your ill-gotten gains at the expense of those unable to defend themselves to go and well & truly GET F*CKED!!!

    Go for it Joseph.

    Kicks the soap box……..

  38. Joe Carli

    Michael…The hard drive has crashed on my computer and I can no longer communicate with the administration…I am using another PC. at the moment but can not use it for any more time than this message…so will be offline for several days at least..Hope and trust I will not be missed….

  39. Joe Carli

    To helvityni…not in flattery…but respect ….:

    Ever the women..

    “Come the morning, come the play,
    ‘Ere the sun comes upon the day,
    ‘Ere the first shots begin to stray,
    There are the women with a cry to say,
    ‘Ever are there women..at the break o’ day!”

  40. Joe Carli

    Not to continue the feud, nor make light of the complaints..but if anyone who cared for the truth of the matter were to go back over those “incriminating posts”, they will find that with the exception of my recent rant against “sycophantic crawlers” in general, all my dealings with others have been little more than implied suggestions and hinted objectifications..whereas the vitriol directed at me has suggested I am, among other things ; “bereft of paternal identity…an erect phallus…guilty of blushing at and condemning of the practice of mutual gender adoration and indulgence in sexual satisfaction…of a kind….self-centered egotist…sexist in the extreme and to finish that I deserve to be dragged down to the base depths of Dante’s Inferno by hook and chain and there riveted to Sysiphus’s stone AS he continuously rolls it up and down that metaphorical mountain.”

    Now..my wit may be as low as a barometer’s kilo pascals on the approach of a tropical cyclone, but surely THAT is no crime, and I would ..in all fairness direct the administration to the abuse I have copped from others before the wanton condemnation of myself !

    I would add in my defence that I have contributed many articles and posts of interest, incl’ stories and tales that ..in the main…have had modest appreciation…I do this not for vanity publishing, but that such sharing extends the “family of the left” and may just throw some light on other lives less fortunate than our own.

  41. helvityni

    Spats happen, in marriages, on blogs, between countries…between women, amongst men…

    Anyhow, something funny from Odgen Nash:

    I Never Even Suggested It

    I know lots of men who are in love and lots of men who are married and lots of men who are both,

    And to fall out with their loved ones is what all of them are most loth.

    They are conciliatory at every opportunity,

    Because all they want is serenity and a certain amount of impunity.

    Yes, many the swain who has finally admitted that the earth is flat

    Simply to sidestep a spat,

    Many the masculine Positively or Absolutely which has been diluted to an If

    Simply to avert a tiff,

    Many the two-fisted executive whose domestic conversation is limited to a tactfully interpolated Yes,

    And then he is amazed to find that he is being raked backwards over a bed of coals nevertheless.

    These misguided fellows are under the impression that it takes two to make a quarrel, that you can sidestep a crisis by nonaggression and nonresistance,

    Instead of removing yourself to a discreet distance.

    Passivity can be a provoking modus operandi;

    Consider the Empire and Gandhi.

    Silence is golden, but sometimes invisibility is older,

    Because loved ones may not be able to make bricks without straw but often they don’t need any straw to manufacture a bone to pick or blood in their eye or a chip for their soft white shoulder.

    It is my duty, gentlemen, to inform you that women are dictators all, and I recommend to you this moral:

    In real life it takes only one to make a quarrel.

  42. helvityni

    …I Gogled and copied the poem, instead of OLDER, it ought to read GOLDER… not my mistake

  43. Esme

    All the best for next Tuesday Joseph.

  44. Joe Carli

    Ah..growing old has its mercies..but also its regrets…would that one could drink from Ponce de León’s fountain of youth..I’m sure I would not let so many chances slip by…

    If only..:

    Would my wit be a sage much wiser.
    Would my courage be somewhat bolder.
    Would that time could take me back yonder,
    To de León’s youthful fountain mythical . . .
    There in a blush of delight so typical,
    Would I and thee..as Adam and Eve,
    As those children in the garden of Ede’,
    Brighten our eyes to that first sight,
    Of a new dawn rising over the mountain’s height.

    If only. . .

  45. David Bruce

    Is the real problem is our own guileless ignorance about politics?
    Ask yourself— what are these political parties? LNP and Labour, Greens and PHON?

    They are lobbyists.

    Lobbyists are supposed to be going to Canberra ACT, to plead for this or that special favor from the elected public officers. Instead, we have lobbyists running the government.

    Think about that.
    Calling them “political parties” instead of “lobbyists” doesn’t change the nature of the beasts.

    They are still just as nasty, unaccountable, deceitful, self-interested and ruthless in promoting agendas calculated to benefit themselves and their patrons. They certainly aren’t there to serve anyone but themselves and their own clique.

    Instead of “LNP” we should have called it the “Capitalist Lobby” and instead of “Labor” we should have called it the “Communist Lobby” and then maybe people would have gotten a clue long before this that their actual federal government — the government they are owed — is missing in action!

    With thanks to Anna von Reitz’s post for the original ideas. Her home in Big Lake, Alaska, was 150m away from the epicenter of a magnitude 7 earthquake on 30 November. George H W Bush passed away the following day, Some say the events were linked. If so, von Reitz must be doing something right. The US Navy are out in force off the coast of Alaska right now, testing their scalar weapons!

    For Kronomex, there is a cure for ED (re yourlifechoices)

  46. Joseph Carli

    David Bruce…I would rightly claim that Australian politics has gone to hell since the Kerr coup of the Whitlam govt’…What I find most curious in that little episode is that Malcolm Fraser was waiting “Around by the back door of Yarralumla” when Whitlam was coming through the front…..Who was powerful enough in Australian politics at that time to instruct Fraser how to act?….Why would someone as proud as Fraser take “stage door johnny” instructions from Kerr…or was it a “higher power” (the English Crown/ Aristocracy) that instructed him?

  47. Karen Kyle

    No Joe, probably not. Higher power my foot. Probably just the Libs and the sure and certain knowledge that they were born to rule. And they couldn’t cope with the first ALP Government in two decades. It just wasn’t right. And they were not having it.

  48. Joseph Carli

    Karen Kyle…I notice quite often you go for the most expedient option to explain something…could this betray a learned distrust for the complexities of committee debate and decisions…learned from your years as a “team player”?

  49. Karen Kyle

    If by a “higher power” you meant the crown was up to shenanigans I think this was fairly unlikely, Although Kerr was. Especially as you bring the English Lords into it. They have no real power these days.The simple explanation has the value of the experience of what was usual in politics (and still is). Your suspicions are drawing more towards conspiracy theory.

  50. Joseph Carli

    Karen…it’s just that the Hocking woman who recently wrote on the dismissal issue tried to get freedom of info’ about the letters between Kerr and the Crown and she was blocked….and Aristocrats only ever really have power NOT through direct action, but rather through cultural influence.

  51. Karen Kyle

    Yes I read about the letters. I think correspondence between the GG and the crown would always be confidential like any other diplomaitic correspondence It may not be possible to get them although it would be interesting.. English Lords would have no cultural influence in Australia..

  52. Joseph Carli

    ” English Lords would have no cultural influence in Australia..”……and then there is that other country..: The LNP!

  53. Karen Kyle

    True.

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