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The government who won’t

The Abbott/Turnbull/Abbott? government will be remembered, if at all, as the government who won’t.

They won’t put a price on carbon.

They won’t tax mining companies on their superprofits.

They won’t offer safe haven to asylum seekers that come by boat.

They won’t fund needs-based education.

They won’t honour the hospital funding agreement.

They won’t protect Australian industries.

They won’t pay for research into climate change.

They won’t close the gap on indigenous disadvantage.

They won’t build public transport.

They won’t allow marriage equality.

They won’t increase the superannuation guarantee or pay a low income co-contribution.

They won’t allow judicial appeal of Ministers’ decisions.

They won’t run a surplus or reduce the debt.

They won’t allow journalists or doctors to speak of the conditions on Manus and Nauru.

They won’t allow public servants to criticise the government.

They won’t accede to Freedom of Information requests or court directions of disclosure.

They won’t extend marine parks or the Murray-Darling buyback scheme.

They won’t allow secular counsellors to take part in the school chaplaincy program.

They won’t ask people to justify the business usage they claim for their car.

They won’t regulate the financial sector.

They won’t fund NGOs.

They won’t reduce defence spending.

They won’t tackle the overly generous tax concessions to the wealthy.

They won’t stop profit-shifting or investment in tax havens.

And they would never ever in a million years knife a sitting Prime Minister … or at least not twice. Would they?


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  1. Shaun Newman

    From what I have just read the TPP agrees to privatize health and education, there goes Medicare under the agreement signed by Andrew Robb the LNP Trade Minister, bloody hell that is all we needed?

  2. Kate M

    That’s a long list. But the real list is so much longer….

  3. Cliff

    Kids of the future will use Abbott and Turnbull names as swearwords for leaving them with a busted arse internet.

  4. Kaye Lee

    Yes the list could be interminable Kate as shown by Cliff. The NBN should definitely have been on there.

    They won’t build a network that future proofs us, or one that is even adequate for today for that matter.

  5. flohri1754

    “The little government that wouldn’t”, eh?

  6. mars08

    Won’t let the ABC be an independent news source.

  7. Kaye Lee

    I think I can I think I can I think I can…ahhhh stuff it, I knew we couldn’t

  8. Kaye Lee

    Won’t cross Rupert or Gina

  9. Michael Taylor

    And they won’t give us a world class broadband.

  10. Mike Flanagan

    Goodun Kaye, thanks!. While the Western Hemisphere try to stall the clanking shut of debtors prison doors and Brazil tries to find alternative potable water after falling under the influence of a Climate Change endowed drought the Chinese ominously have been the only country in the hemisphere to expand trade and capital flows according to latest reports. It may suggest Gina has a few problems about to arise with he $10Billion mining loans and investments. Someone is going to want some money sometime rather than platitudes about some mystical potential.

  11. diannaart

    …and gasping their final breath on their (collective?) death beds – they still won’t give a toss…

  12. jim

    They won’t act like adults, they won’t pass a single budget,they won’t listen to the people,and they won’t win the next election..that’ll do it..

  13. Sunday

    They won’t get rid of Negative Gearing or reduce John Howards cut on Capital Gains tax.

  14. Ella

    Kaye Lee RE; Abbott,Turnbull, Abbott?
    I am starting to wonder whether the majority of LNP thinks like Abbott and replacing him was just a political tactic to make sure that the LNP would win the next election. I wonder if MT is a trojan horse?

  15. Kaye Lee

    Ella, I am pretty sure Malcolm doesn’t see himself as a Trojan Horse. I also don’t think the majority of the LNP want Abbott back. It is just as always happens, a few weirdos are making a lot of noise. The fact that Malcolm seems unable to pull them into line except by giving them jobs is costing us a fortune. We have special envoys and commissioners coming out our ears, We have more reviews going on than anyone could possibly read. Abbott supporters are being promoted left right and centre, All those retiring Ministers will expect an ambassadorship or some other sinecure. Malcolm is starting to deserve that most derogatory of conservative epithets – “apppeaser”.

  16. Deidre Zanker

    Ella, Abbott is sure he will be back as PM. If MT is meant to be a trojan horse the Libs who put him there probably lied to him as well.

  17. Miriam English

    Won’t get re-elected. (I hope.)

  18. Heterodox (@mmt_rod)

    They won’t do anything about unemployment like a Job Guarantee

  19. corvus boreus

    Typo alert on line 3.

  20. Kaye Lee

    Thanks cb. Fixed. Old eyes, black keyboard, and a certain ennui with proof reading.

  21. Neil of Sydney

    They won’t allow public servants to criticise the government.

    I think you will find that is normal. Public Servants are not allowed to criticise the govt. If they want to protest against the govt they need to leave the PS and enter private industry. That is normal for whatever govt is in power. And it is especially true on areas that overlap with govt policy.

    A CSIRO scientist was censored under Rudd because his approach to global warming differed from the govts policies

    Dr Spash yesterday lashed out at his former employer, saying it had treated him ”extremely poorly”. He said the organisation had gagged his views on emissions trading schemes.

    They won’t protect Australian industries.

    I think you will find it was Hawke/Keating who dropped the tariffs destroying a large chunk of our manufacturing industry. Back in the 1970’s we used to make everything here. Fridges, TV’s, washing machines etc etc were all made here. Now it is all gone. Does anybody remember the TV repair man? Some guy would come out and fix your TV if it broke down. Change the picture tube or did whatever needed fixing. Now if your TV breaks down you throw it out and buy a new one.Cheaper to buy a new TV from overseas than fixing the broken one.

    It would be interesting to compare the industries which left under Hawke/Keating and Rudd/Gillard compared to Howard/Costello.

  22. lawrencewinder

    It’s not a government….. just a ruling rabble!

  23. Möbius Ecko

    Or Fraser/Howard.

    Is he ever going to address the massive failings of the Liberals without harking on about Labor as a distraction from those considerable Liberal failings

  24. Sir Scotchmistery

    Recently i had cause to reflect on the Jonesian capacity to incite an entire nation to seek the death of an elected prime minister, Julia Gillard, by the simple expedient of taking her to sea in a chaff bag and dumping her.

    It was obvious that was a reasonable proposition because the LNP lapdogs, the Australian Federal Police, neither investigated nor pursued the well known London public toilet aficionado Jones in that he was neither questioned nor called to account for that action.

    In the spirit of equal access to the law, (and in so doing I accept responsibility for my words), it seems appropriate to call for the same process for Mr Jones and any of his coterie who feel a need to support him. The coterie obviously includes many sitting liberals.

    I recommend that 40 Australian thinkers take Jones to sea, place place him in a chaff bag and throw him in the water. And leave.

    If possible I recommend that he be joined by British national and all round oxygen thief Tony Abbott, Tasmanian creature Eric Abetz, the disgusting whore Bronwyn Bishop, the creature from Turtle Cove, Pyne, and the miserable excuse for a prime mincer, Turnbull. And while we’re at it how about popping Cardinal George Pell in as well, since the LNP and the Alternative Liberal Party won’t need him if the truth comes out.

    I recommend all be disposed of at sea to reduce the cost of the inevitable state funeral to we the taxpayers of this craven land.

    Lastly, I recommend that Rupert Moredick be put into a large tub of margarine and be melted down to see if he has any worthwhile parts. If so I recommend that whatever worthwhile part he may be found to possess be given to America’s Smithsonian, since we don’t want the f*cker back here.

    Lastly, rather than support morons wanting to extend life medically, I believe we should develop a field of science called “truth or dare” wherein politicians are inoculated with a truth serum wherein if the mongrels tell a lie, their head explodes immediately.

    This naturally gives us back our manufacturing industry since anyone near a politician when it explodes would need some form of protection.

  25. Salstarat

    The despicable, dumbed down, terminally self-deluded Abbott and the preening, smug, supercilious elitist, Turnbull really are the worst, EPIC FAILURE PMs to have disgraced the helm of our government in 40,000 years of human habitation of Australia! They represent everything that is deceitful, impotent and scurrilous about their new type of PROMISE ANYTHING BUT DO NOTHING, SAY NOTHING, LYING form of government! After the most despised, condemned and scorned PM in our history (Abbott take a bow!) was trounced and every person in Australia who had an IQ >10 jumped for joy, everyone hoped that Turnbull would go through and change the screaming, crass bible thumping hypocrites from the hysterical ultra conservative wasteland of the far right LNP but, alas, THEY changed him! Turnbull turned into a whimpering, cowardly epitome of The Hollow Man and about as useful as screens on a submarine! More than 29 months after this soulless, depraved pack of psychopaths crawled across the electoral line, they are STILL trying to blame the Labor Party for the LNPs own Laundry List of woes, broken promises, lie after lie after lie, turning Australia into an economic basket case and environmental wasteland! The Rudd/Gillard/Rudd government looks like the Government from Heaven compared to this lot … my God, could they possibly get worse? You bet! Lawrencwinder’s description: RULING RABBLE fits like a glove! You can make a LIST of what they WON’T do as long as The Dead Sea Scrolls. However, the SHORTEST BOOK IN THE WORLD still bears the title: “List of Memorable Achievements by the LNP going back 100 years that benefit ordinary Australians” … as far as I know, the body of the book remains completely VOID!

  26. Florence nee Fedup

    With Abbott. it was no no nope no. With Turnbull, I won’t won’t won’t

  27. gangey1959

    Good evening Sir Scotchy. I havent read your dulcet tones for a while. Whilst I agree with the sentiment, I must disagree with the positioning. I think the middle of Lake Eyre might be safer for the environment, enless we could get Russian permission for a flyover of Chernobyl. ‘Ooops, they fell off…..’
    Dumping at sea would be another environmental disaster.
    @ Kaye Lee. Remember Nope, Nope, Nope……………………….
    And the beat goes on…
    And IF abbott is back in charge, he’ll be back as opposition leader. Again.

  28. Neil of Sydney

    Or Fraser/Howard.

    I started with Hawke/Keating because i think we still made most things in Australia in the late 1970’s, early 1980’s. King Gee shorts, shoes, socks, TV’s, washing machines etc etc were all made here in the late 1970’s and now it is all gone. Computers did not start being used until 1983/84.

    I think the Hawke/Keating govt made the decision not to make things in Australia but to import them because it was cheaper.

    Is he ever going to address the massive failings of the Liberals

    The major problems this country faces were caused by the Rudd/Gillard govt. They created a runaway debt truck which most probably cannot be stopped.

  29. Michael Taylor

    So it’s Labor’s fault.

    Now why didn’t I think of that?

  30. Kaye Lee

    I find it rather odd that Mr Turnbull, as he approaches the end of his government’s term, is saying they won’t rush tax policy, that they will take a careful, methodical approach looking at all options. WTF have they been doing for the past two and a half years, and the six years before that? I also note it took him no time at all to condemn Labor’s policy before he even had time to read it. What’s careful and measured about that?

    So we are to have a tax announcement in April and then an election called the day after the budget for July 2 – so the pundits say. Income tax cuts will be funded by changes to superannuation tax concessions, some to negative gearing possibly (though John Howard is against it so maybe not), and changes to work related expenses.

    On work-related expenses, in the first budget the Coalition got rid of the $6,000 instant asset write-off for small business. Then in the next budget they re-introduced it but made it $20,000. Labor wanted to cap study expenses to rein in the overseas conferences. The Coalition opposed it. Now they are saying they want to limit work related expenses again. Just as well they have a plan….NOT!

  31. gangey1959

    @ NoS. In nearly 3 years of coalandoilalition government, the debt has increased, and so have the unemployment lines.
    In 3013 we had a car industry. Now we don’t.
    In 2013 we had anti-pollution payment bringing in a lot of money. Now we don’t have either, but we have more crap in our air and water, and our power costs us more.
    In 2013 there was an aluminium smelter at Port Henry near Geelong. Now there isn’t, The one in Tassie and in Portland are at risk of closure due to major power price rises.
    STOP blaming Rudd and Gillard.
    I have been working since I left RMIT in 1981, and it was only hard to find work after 2000, when little johhny and his mates f*cked it all totally.
    Whitlam may have unlocked the door, but it was coward who pushed it open and tore down the flyscreen.

  32. astra5

    Nice summary Kaye.

    You have stylishly captured the negativity of our federal government. How can we advance with the No, No, No ball and chain dragging behind?

  33. Neil of Sydney

    @ NoS. In nearly 3 years of coalandoilalition government, the debt has increased, and so have the unemployment lines.

    And Labor would have done better? Actually the economic numbers are similar to when the Coalition won govt in 2013. The budget deficit is about the same and unemployment has only gone up slightly. I could play devils advocate and say the Coalition has stopped the huge increase in the budget deficit and unemployment which happened under Labor.

    In 3013 we had a car industry. Now we don’t…….In 2013 there was an aluminium smelter at Port Henry near Geelong. Now there isn’t,

    This has been going on since the 1970’s. It is not good that we make very few things here anymore. I remember in high school economic class that a third world country exports raw materials to a first world country who then turns the raw materials into manufactured products. On the basis of that definition we are now a third world country.

    STOP blaming Rudd and Gillard

    And you should stop blaming Hockey. When the Coalition won govt they were faced with a car industry who made cars that nobody wanted to buy. It was unfortunate that Hockey was handed a industry that only had 10% of the market but Labor supporters want to blame Hockey for the destruction of the car industry.

  34. diannaart


    You are, therefore, content with the LNP continuing Labor’s “great big mess”.

    In fact you approve of the LNP making this mess worse, instead of doing something to repair damage….and, no, neglecting the most vulnerable by reducing spending on health, education, public transport, clean environment will not repair our economy.

    Now we have blamed everyone, may we discuss solutions?

  35. Michael Taylor

    Let’s all ignore Neil’s comment above. It is just his usual tactic of trying to derail yet another topic to one that suits him.

    I must say it disappoints me. The authors here give up their time to write articles, some of which would take hours to complete. I think they should be given due respect. There is nothing more disappointing to an author than to see their message totally ignored while Neil is given the freedom to dictate terms.

    We are all aware that he talks a load of nonsense. He does it on purpose.

  36. diannaart

    I understand, Michael.

    However, my point was how about we stop the blame game (this automatically excludes NoS) and offer a critique on whats happening right now, instead of of letting ourselves into a perpetual maze of who did what when.

    For example, Malcolm could show some backbone and stand up to the far-right in his party – they wouldn’t dare put Abbott back, knowing this is definitely electoral suicide. So why is he jumping to the RWNJ’s tune?

    Maybe, Turncoat is waiting until he is voted back – however, the ghost of Godwin Grech still hovers and I believe returning Turncoat to office will merely entrench the path he has made for himself and is forcing the rest of Australia along with him.

  37. Michael Taylor

    I understand that, diannaart (and gangey1959). I wrote my comment before I read the previous comments, so it wasn’t personal.

    Yes, Neil is indeed wrong – and he always is – but he’s not going to listen to a voice of reason from someone who puts the facts in front of his face. I’ve known him for ten years and he’s always been the same. His intention and style is to annoy and disrupt. He’s not going to listen to you.

    The rest of us are though.

  38. diannaart

    I endure periods of time where I do not respond or even read much of what NoS has to say. But sometimes…. I am only human.

    How about we become the broken needle to NoS’s record? Whatever extinct claptrap he comes out with, all we have to do is ask what are the LNP doing now?

    We know the LNP are only in it for themselves (and part of Labor and, maybe the Greens) – we can choose whenever or not to reply to NoS – he might make a claim that what the LNP is doing is, in fact, helping, we can ask how – he might answer and we can easily reveal the great lie to anything the far-right nutters utters…. and move on.

    Neil – what are your beloved Liberals doing right now to help Australia? Please elaborate.

  39. Neil of Sydney

    Let’s all ignore Neil’s comment above.

    What have i done wrong? I started off commenting on the list Kaye prepared. A lot of things i do not agree with but this one really annoyed me

    They won’t protect Australian industries.

    I am most probably a lot older than people think and i know there are some older people who post here. Anybody who lived during the 1970’s know we used to make most things in Australia back then. Shoes, socks, King Gee shorts, TV’s, fridges washing machines and now it is all gone.

    The ALP has been in power most of the time this happened. It was Hawke/Keating who dropped the tariffs destroying a large chunk of our manufacturing industry.

    How much protection did Labor give our manufacturing industry?

    Neil – what are your beloved Liberals doing right now to help Australia? Please elaborate.

    Well how about this

    Westpac Banking Corp director and Stone & Chalk chairman Craig Dunn has been appointed chairman of a new fintech advisory group announced by the federal government on Wednesday to recommend policy changes to grow Australia’s financial technology sector.

  40. Kaye Lee

    Oh good. They have formed another committee. Is there any reason why they refuse to be advised by the Departments of Treasury, Finance and Communications, the Productivity Commission and the Parliamentary Budget Office and the ATO and the RBA and Infrastructure Australia and the multitudinous public servants employed to already advise them. Letting the banks advise on policy is laughable.

  41. Miriam English

    …a committe to advise them on financial “technology” — the only technology that doesn’t actually produce anything, but merely uses tricks to skim money off that already circulating… you know, like the sub-prime mortgages, and the computerised stock manipulation programs that make stock transactions, buying and selling stocks in milliseconds to skim millions by juggling slight differences in the prices of stocks. Such financial technologies are causing great damage to capitalism on the whole and society at large. When the next big financial crash comes — and they seem to be coming more frequently now — it will be these something-for-nothing, get-rich-quick, scam artists who will be largely to blame… and the governments who allowed and encouraged their activities.

    I feel a little sorry for you Neil. I’m sure you mean what you say. But your oddly colored glasses seem to prevent you seeing anything beyong conservative=good; progressive=bad. It is honestly not so simple. Yes, Labor has made mistakes, but the errors made by conservative governments should not be ignored.

    You keep saying that the Labor government gave the current LNP government a terrible debt burden that they are having difficulty recovering from, yet the Rudd/Gillard government gave us the third lowest debt in the world — that should have left us in a precarious state, but it didn’t; we were effectively insulated from the trauma in the rest of the world. Our economy was the envy of every country on the planet… and this during the worst recession in ages. People here were reading news reports and watching the world news and wondering, “Recession? What recession?” while the rest of the world was circling the plughole. Read what other countries and banks and economic organisations were saying about us then. It really was a pretty miraculous thing to do.

    Since then the LNP government has squandered the amazing advantage given it. They’ve thrown it away on discredited ideology by wrecking our health system, education system, investor confidence, the flowering renewable energy industries, and while doing that they’ve been promoting racism and misogyny.

    Sometimes conservative governments do the right thing. Sometimes progressive governments do the right thing. Unfortunately for the current government it seems to unerringly step from one cow-pat straight into the next. The ineptitude is mind-boggling.

    I have little respect for politicians generally, but there are some past conservative politicians that I can see were knowledgeable and capable (Paul Hewson, Don Chipp, and others). The same is true of some progressive politicians. But I would be hard put to think of any of the current crop of conservative politicians who is deserving of any respect at all. It is astonishing that there can be such an assembly of waste in a single government. I had thought that Malcolm Turnbull might change things, but he is turning out to be a surprisingly weak leader. I don’t know what hold the other morons have over him, but they seem to have tied his hands, gagged him, and rendered him utterly ineffective.

    Neil, why you make excuses for these buffoons, I just don’t understand.

  42. Miriam English

    Oops… John Hewson. My mistake.

  43. Neil of Sydney

    yet the Rudd/Gillard government gave us the third lowest debt in the world

    What are you talking about? Debt was zero in 2007 when Howard lost office and unemployment was at 4.3% the lowest for a generation. We were one of the few countries to hit the GFC with zero debt. Rudd/Gillard gave us nothing except a trashed budget and a runaway debt truck which most probably cannot be stopped. Did you remember the abuse Howard/Costello got running surplus budget which gave us the third lowest debt in the world? I have yet to see a Labor govt reduce debt. It only increases debt

    Neil, why you make excuses for these buffoons, I just don’t understand.

    Because the alternative is worse. I cannot think of anything useful Hawke/Keating did except for Superannuation and it is not working. People are still going on the pension. And Rudd/Gillard were worse. Rudd/Gillard locked up 8.000 kids.

    And on another topic

    They won’t regulate the financial sector.

    It was Hawke/Keating who deregulated the banking industry leading to many problems. Costello re-regulated the banking industry by creating APRA. It was APRA that stopped banks making sub-prime loans which caused so much trouble overseas.

  44. Wally

    Neil of Sydney – Your a dickhead.

    Kaye Lee – Another great article.

    They won’t tell us the truth about the boats. Have the boats stopped or do they keep coming to collect money from the Abbott/Turnbull government then return back home much richer? How many boats are reaching Australian waters?

    Besides buggering up the NBN they have managed to keep us in the dark on boat arrivals.

  45. Neil of Sydney

    Neil of Sydney – Your a dickhead.


    I must admit i have never been able to understand how Labor voters think. And i guess Labor voters do not understand the way Coalition supporters think.

    I think politics is very much like religion. You either believe in something or you don’t and facts are irrelevant.

  46. Möbius Ecko

    Why is this no surprise. Infrastructure Australia recommends this government looks at restructuring the NBN, breaking it up and selling the pieces to private enterprisesMurdoch.

    This comes on the back on more data that Turnbull’s MTM is a disaster and gurgling down the drain taking huge amounts of public money with it.

  47. Wally

    Neil of Sydney


    Just felt like annoying and disrupting your agenda like you do every time you comment.

  48. Neil of Sydney

    I think lefties and Conservatives are different creatures. I really do not understand you people. You seem to be much more tribal than Conservative voters. Take this comment by you

    Besides buggering up the NBN they have managed to keep us in the dark on boat arrivals.

    Conservatives believe that FTTP would be too expensive and most probably would never be finished. Apparently only 50,000 premises were on the NBN when Labor lost office in 2013. There are now 850,000 homes connected with FTTN. Even at that much faster rate it will still take a long time to connect all homes to the NBN. But FTTP which is Labors plan would never be finished. And the Coalition would never get a govt company to build something like that. Govt organisation take 5 times longer to build something and are 5 times more expensive than private enterprise.

    But we are now stuck with the NBN. Conroy signed unbreakable contracts so we have no option but to build it either by FTTN or FTTP. You might get lucky and Labor wins the next election and you can change it back to FTTP.

  49. Florence nee Fedup

    Neil, once again wrong, We know how the right thinks. If one is tribal, what is wrong with that, At least those in tribes care for on another.

  50. Florence nee Fedup

    This gvt is obsessed with cutting revenue by cutting taxes. That is their one and only policy.

    Once upon a time, even capitalist believe one had to spend money to maker money. Still true I believe.

  51. Miriam English

    Neil, I am so sick of free-market religious devotees repeating that mantra that government is less efficient and more expensive. We can see all over the world that every time the health system is put into private hands it becomes wildly expensive and inefficient. Just look at USA’s health system — the most expensive and inefficient in the world, and failing large numbers of its citizens. Nationalised health systems, on the other hand are highly efficient and cost-effective.

    We have seen here in Australia what has happened when private enterprise took over the employment services Centrelink previously offered: the cost inflated many times over and they had no greater success at getting people into the job market than Centrelink because the 2 limiting factors were the availability of jobs and the desire of people to work, not the existence of job agencies.

    We have also seen here what happened when Telstra was privatised. Costs increased and efficiency went down, especially when measured as customer satisfaction.

    When water was privatised the first thing to happen was costs shot up. They don’t seem to be less efficient, but then the limiting factors for that are probably not related to whether it private or public.

    If a service is supplied at what it costs to pay the people involved then that will always be less than paying for that plus massive corporate profits to stockholders and greedy executives, especially if much of those profits are being shipped overseas.

    I like the market, but pure free market is an unmitigated failure just as much as total lack of it is a total failure. You need a balance of public and private for society to run properly.

    As for the NBN. Ask any tech-head in the country which they would prefer — the Labor plan or the LNP plan. I defy you to find a technically competent computer geek who would opt for the LNP plan. Now why do you think that would be? The LNP NBN is old, slow technology — yesterday’s news. The glass fibre system Labor wanted would have made ours one of the best networks on the planet. Yes, it would have taken a while to roll out, but the LNP’s system is taking ages to roll out too. The limiting factor is not really what kind of cables you lay down. It is that you have to lay it down at all. If you are going to spend time digging trenches then you might as well be putting glass fibre in them instead of copper.

  52. Wally

    Miriam English

    Don’t forget how much of the copper that has to be replaced for Turnbulls NBN disaster to work. If you need to replace assets why would you use the same old low tech 19th century technology? NoS knows the facts but he only believes what the LNP tell him so no matter what we say we will be wrong.

    His first response will be that FTTP is too expensive followed by it would be too slow to connect everyone…….

  53. Bacchus

    Love your work Miriam English!

    And yes Wally – why WOULD you be buying and installing NEW copper in 2016? These morons really are dangerously captivated by their ideology.

  54. Miriam English

    I have thought long and hard about why they opted for a copper network. I think it comes down to simple corruption. Firstly, their mining mates are selling the copper and the market for copper worldwide has taken a downturn lately. Secondly, of course, Murdoch doesn’t want a fast NBN because it would compete with his cable and satellite TV… and what King Murdoch wants, Australian government (Labor or LNP) bows obsequiously and delivers to him.

  55. Neil of Sydney

    His first response will be that FTTP is too expensive followed by it would be too slow to connect everyone…….

    Correct. That is the Coalition position. Only 70,000 homes had been connected to the FTTP when Labor lost office in 2013. At that rate it would never be finished. There are now 850,000 homes connected so FTTN is much faster to build.

    And nobody really has any idea how much FTTP would cost to build.

    Don’t forget how much of the copper that has to be replaced for Turnbulls NBN disaster to work.

    Is that correct? I thought the whole point of FTTN was to use the existing copper network so why would anything need replacing?

  56. Kaye Lee

    NBN Co buys 1800 kilometres of copper to make Malcolm Turnbull’s fibre-to-the-node network work

    …and that’s only enough to last for 5 months. They will have to buy much more. Every node has to be attached to existing pillars taking, on average, 350m of copper each, according to Morrow. The cost has also blown out to $50 billion and the time frame to 2020.

  57. Matthew Oborne

    not since the Bronze age have people gotten so excited about copper.

  58. Matthew Oborne

    Now Turnbull has used up his political capital where does that leave him. he cant rebuild it by offering a moderate approach that will just make the right leak more and obviously want him replaced, he cant do much more if any right wing wish fulfillment or he will slide in the polls even more.

    During the 2013 election campaign it was obvious the right felt it was their time, even the IPA pushed them to be the anti Gough.
    Abbott mentioned social engineering a lot during his first year as PM and it was obvious they were hoping for a right wing makeover of this country.

    It failed and the right can not recognise that it failed and we in 2016 face a right wing still hoping to reshape our country in their image, still hoping they can get australia off handouts which we pay tax to have.

    They wont give up on their dream of a right wing australia, we saw that in the despondent talk from them when Abbott was ditched, “who will represent far right wing Australia”

    Turnbull is stuck, look at his options he cant rebuild his standing with moderates and the left, and he cant appease the right, Now is an exciting time to watch a man who can not please the people try to convince them he deserves a three year stint.

  59. Salstarat

    Neil of Sydney, like most Murdoch manipulated Libtards, you woeful conservatives are totally, absolutely, pathetically and terminally DELUDED. The FACT is that the Howard/Costello government were NOMINATED by overseas experts like the IMF and Nobel Laureates like Joseph Stiglitz as the WORST, most wasteful, profligate governments in Australian history! THAT IS A FACT … deal with it! Instead of sucking up the LIES, hyperbole and character assassinating crap that spews out of the Z-rated pages of Murdoch’s filthy rags, how about reading this:

    Costello and the totally inept buffoon, Hockey were the WORST most incompetent treasurers in 40,000 years of human habitation in Australia! Why do you think Turnballs sent Hockey packing off to the USA? Because he is DETESTED and, like the dumbed down clown, Abbott, quickly became a political liability. There are reasons WHY Keating and Swan WERE nominated as our best Treasurers, my dear, and you seem to choose to remain in your dark, little right wing corner and recognise that overseas financial experts like the highly regarded EUROMONEY nominated Keating and Swan as the BEST Treasurers in the world because they WERE the frigging best in the world, get it? No, really … you CANNOT change the facts as much as you, Murdoch and the LNP are so desperately trying to! Don’t believe it? Well read THIS article which has actually been published in one of Murdoch’s rags, “The Australian” ….

    Now, did the useless idiot, Hockey ACTUALLY double our debt back in 2014 (which has SINCE quadrupled) … the highly regarded, independent ABC run FACT CHECKS says it did: “”Mr Bowen accurately quoted changes totalling $68 billion in the Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook.”The MYEFO forecasts a budget deficit twice as large as it was in the PEFO. The economic assumptions in MYEFO are different from those used in the PEFO, and there is spending in the MYEFO that was not in the previous forecasts. It remains to be seen how the two sets of forecasts stand the test of time, but as of today, Mr Bowen’s claim checks out.”” Sadly, since that time, the LNP have spent their way into QUADRUPLING OUR DEBT, Neil-of-Sydney, now THAT is fact!!!

    Neil of Sydney, get your HEAD OUT OF THE SAND. The ONLY thing you are right about is that, yes, socialists and neoconservatives are different people and I am very proud to be the former! Problem with you ultra conservative OUTSIDERS is that you have not yet found a way to join the rest of us in the world of REALITY, Tch! Tch! Time and time again, the delusional members of the manipulated right wing have proven that they are diagonally parked in a parallel universe!

  60. Miriam English

    heheh 🙂 “diagonally parked in a parallel universe” — that goes straight into my quotes folder.

  61. Salstarat

    Thanks, Miriam, but I really doubt that our parochial friend, Neil of Sydney, will be quoting me anytime soon, lol!

  62. Neil of Sydney

    Every node has to be attached to existing pillars taking, on average, 350m of copper each, according to Morrow.

    OK so nothing is being replaced. The existing copper network is going to be used but extra new copper is needed to connect the node to the existing pillars (whatever they are)

    The cost has also blown out to $50 billion and the time frame to 2020

    What a surprise. Costs on something being built by the govt blows out. I think we are lucky FTTP is not being built because cost blowouts would be reporting all the time. Fact is nobody has any idea how much FTTP would cost.

    And in 3 years Labor only connect 50,000 homes to FTTP. At that rate, connection to 12 million premises would never be finished.

  63. diannaart

    The government who won’t or even can’t understand the value of anything except the cost of any endeavour or creation.

    Just as NoS has demonstrated when asked to provide something, anything of worth the LNP has done this term – what does he produce – another effing committee solely concerned with money – not education, health, environment or anything the people need to live, just another think tank.

    And, Neil – I asked for you to elaborate of why you considered something an achievement – copying & pasting an arbitrary snippet from your link is not an explanation for your beliefs.

    Also what you call ‘tribal’ is simple agreement between many of us that money is not the most important aspiration – we disagree on many other things – you would, no doubt, have joined with the snickering of the LNP that the left is “riddled with factions” – but that doesn’t suit if we ‘lefties’ agree on something, then we are ‘tribal’.

    Wanting cake and eating it too, is a common characteristic of the far-right.

  64. Kaye Lee

    FFS Neil,

    You really try every ounce of patience I have. Can you understand that copper cannot provide the same service that fibre can? Using NEW copper as part of a new system is unbelievably wasteful, condemning us to limited capacity. Your constant repetition of how many homes Labor connected is the most ridiculous comment you have ever made. They STARTED the rollout. You can’t have people connected before you start (trying very hard not to name call). As for not knowing the cost, Morrow was asked how many nodes would be needed and he said I don’t know. Not only do the Liberals not know how much it will cost, they don’t even have a plan!

    Just stop it Neil. I mean it. Your repetitious defence of the indefensible has pushed me too far.

  65. Kaye Lee

    The “final design” process for connections – needed before construction can start – is running far behind schedule, according to the February 19 report.

    While 1,402,909 premises should have been approved at the date of the report, the figure was sitting at 662,665 – 740,000 fewer than planned.

    The snapshot says NBN Co has achieved 29,005 fibre-to-the-node “construction completions”, while noting its internally budgeted target for this period was more than three times this at 94,273.

    The report, which was never intended for public disclosure, reveals the extent to which the more than $46 billion project has drifted off course. It was originally intended to cost $29.5 billion according to the Abbott government, but costs have increased considerably since 2013 and it is getting close to twice that price tag.

    Yet the NBN Co’s own documents show that for all that money, it remains bedevilled with problems from the slow design approvals by power utility companies (FTTP did not require electrical supply but FTTN does) and as a result of material and supply problems. Even expertise in dealing with the copper network is scarce.

    Also noted in the report is a rise in the cost per connection of design and construction, which has now reached $1366, compared with the target price of $1114 – a 23 per cent increase.

  66. Michael Taylor

    People ask why we ‘pick on’ Neil yet are tolerant of others. Well, the others don’t have the intentions that Neil has. I think we all know what they are.

    I think we’re all fed up with Neil again. He was taken out of moderation and given a chance. He blew it. He made it clear that his only intentions are to disrupt this site.

  67. Wally

    Neil of Sydney

    “The existing copper network is going to be used but extra new copper is needed to connect the node to the existing pillars ”

    Bullshit that is the NBN Co and LNP line, given the amount of cable purchased it doesn’t add up and the following comments from installers are much closer to the truth. It all comes down to what you consider to be substantial. Unlike the LNP who have a vested interest the contractors have no need to tell lies.

    “I have been talking to some contractors in the field recently to get a feel for how good the copper network is – and how much of it needs work or needs to be replaced. They have told me that NBN’s working assumption is that 10 percent of copper pairs in Fibre to the Node areas will need remediation,” Clare said in a speech to the Communications Day Melbourne Congress.

    “But in places like Newcastle and the Central Coast, closer to 90 percent of the copper pairs have needed work. In some places the copper is so bad it has to be replaced. Replacing old copper … with new copper. One contractor told me in Newcastle and the Central Coast 10 to 15 percent of the copper lines are having lengths replaced.”

    “And this is not just happening in Newcastle or the Central Coast. Another contractor told me in Campbelltown in Sydney that NBN has had to recently replace almost 3 kilometres of old copper with new copper.”

    I would estimate that 40-50% of the copper will need replacement due to our population residing mainly in coastal areas where corrosion of the copper is greater than it is in drier salt free areas. As for NoS he was made aware of the need to replace existing copper in comments on an AimN article within the last 2 weeks, for him to write this comment here shows how full of shit he is.

    “Is that correct? I thought the whole point of FTTN was to use the existing copper network so why would anything need replacing?”

  68. diannaart

    I agree.

    I gave Neil a generous opportunity to inform of of something substantial the LNP has achieved this term – all he could provide was the formation of a committee – he could not even elaborate WHY he thought this an achievement.

    Neil, if you cannot do anything other than denigrate Labor or other progressives- there is no point in engaging with you any further.

  69. Wally

    Kaye Lee

    Your mention of electrical connections reminded me of an NBN tower I was involved with before Christmas, it needed a 3 phase supply but the power company only provided single phase. I know it has been corrected since but no one has owned up as to who stuffed up, the way the system works makes it most likely the customer (NBN Co) made an error when negotiating supply arrangements.

  70. Florence nee Fedup

    Copper is also going into greenfield sites. Why? Could it give Telstra ongoing control over other ISP s?

  71. Neil of Sydney

    I think we’re all fed up with Neil again. He was taken out of moderation and given a chance. He blew it. He made it clear that his only intentions are to disrupt this site.

    I gave an honest comment but it sent you lefties into a frenzy. I think that says more about you people than me.

    The Conservative view of Labors FTTP NBN is that it would cost $100B and take 20 years to build if ever.

    I guess we will never get on. I might take a break for a while.

  72. SoTiredOfConservative Nutters

    You do that, sunshine, and don’t let the door slam on your neoliberal arse on your way out!

  73. Florence nee Fedup

    “It hasn’t worked out that way.

    The MTM network has blown out twice in projected cost – first, from $29.5 billion to $41 billion, and then last year to “up to” $56 billion. And instead of delivering 25 Mbps by 2016, now the MTM network isn’t expected to be finished until 2020 – only a year earlier than Labor expected to finish its rollout. NBN’s own chairman has admitted meeting this 2020 target will require a “heroic” effort.

    The NBN debate remains a giant political “he said, she said” in which neither side gives the other any credit. In a Background Briefing program late last year, I tried to cut through the thicket of NBN politics to discover the truth of where our largest, most significant infrastructure project stands.

    There is a non-partisan way through the debate, in my view, but it relies on an analysis of an ever-receding counter-factual scenario: what would have happened under Labor.

    The PM and communications minister Mitch Fifield are being cute when they say – as they did again yesterday – that reverting to Labor’s fibre-to-the-premise NBN would take an extra 6-8 years to complete and cost an extra $30 billion. That is an estimate of the cost of going back to Labor’s NBN, after having embarked upon the Coalition’s version in 2013. It is not the amount that Labor’s NBN would have cost if it had continued as originally planned. Obviously, it is much more inefficient to change horses mid-stream, then change back again.”

    “It is true that Labor’s NBN was behind schedule and over-budget when the government lost office in 2013.

    But as a matter of degree, they were only a year behind, and only a few billion over-budget, on their own figures – which, by the way, respected former NBN chief Mike Quigley stands by to this day.

    Labor had very good reasons for being behind: firstly, they were negotiating a one-off deal with Telstra that would see the ageing copper network – which Telstra’s own engineers thought was at five minutes to midnight – retired. Then Telstra chief David Thodey was convinced it was the right deal both for Telstra and the country.

    Secondly, the NBN was not only starting from scratch, with all the inevitable teething problems – it had to build the national transit network, the “backbone” of the NBN. This was another one-off, up-front exercise that was expensive but was duly completed and is relied on by NBN today.”

  74. diannaart

    Well stated Florence.

    How can this be made clear to the public? Yet, again Labor has been silenced by MSM and the Machiavellian Libs.

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