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A sociopathic lack of empathy

One thing I have tried to teach my children is that, when you make a mistake, tell the truth, apologise, do what you can to make up for it, and learn from the experience.

The example being set by our nation’s leaders makes it hard to reinforce that message.

According to Tony Abbott, the Coalition’s woes at ICAC are due to the Labor government making rules about donations from developers, implying it is the rule that is wrong rather than the breaking of it.

Likewise in the Bolt case – his conviction for vilifying groups in our society was the fault of an unjust law rather than any wrongdoing on his part according to his special friend, George Brandis.

Hockey’s defence of the revelation that he is paying off his investment property by claiming $270 a night accommodation entitlements is that it is “within the rules”, a defence also used by Malcolm Turnbull and many other politicians. Nowhere is it questioned as to whether this is what was intended by the “away from home” allowance.

Abetz and Hockey have both used the “blame the media” excuse for things they have said. I was misinterpreted, I didn’t finish my sentence. Abbott and Pyne tell us that we misunderstood when they said they were on a unity ticket about education funding.

Twelve months into their term, the government seem unable to take the reins, constantly repeating the “debt and deficit disaster inherited from Labor” line, with absolutely no plan for the future. Tony counts off on his fingers (an exceedingly annoying habit that he seems unable to function without), “We axed the carbon tax, the boats are stopping, we are building the roads of the 21st century, and we are getting the budget under control”. There is no thought about what we will do about climate change or how we will help refugees or whether those roads are the best infrastructure investment or modelling on how the budget cuts will affect the vulnerable in our society.

But the prize for the best “pass the buck” comment must go to Tony’s mentor and spiritual advisor, George Pell. When being interviewed by the Royal Commission into child sex abuse yesterday, Pell made the crass analogy that the Church should not be held responsible for the actions of its clergy any more than a trucking company should be held responsible if one of their drivers molested a woman they picked up on the road.

The last time I looked, trucking companies didn’t run schools. They were not placed in positions of trust to care for the vulnerable in our community or to provide moral guidance. I would also suggest that if the company was informed that one of their drivers had raped someone they would not try to bribe the victim to not go to the police.

In 2002, Pell told his audience of World Youth Day delegates that “abortion is a worse moral scandal than priests sexually abusing young people”, during a public religious instruction session. In response to the outcry this caused, Pell said he was merely trying to point out that sex abuse by Catholic clergy had attracted attention to the detriment of other issues.

Anthony Foster, the father of two of the abuse victims, has said Cardinal Pell displayed a “sociopathic lack of empathy” when they met to discuss the case in the 1990s.

This lack of empathy is the most frightening part of the current government and the people to whom they listen. Anyone who is not rich is to be blamed for not working out how to rort the system. Single parents are made to feel ashamed of their situation which Kevin Andrews and Cory Bernardi tell us will lead to their “sons ending up in gaol and their daughters being promiscuous”. Unemployed people are just not trying hard enough, the disabled are lazy, and we can’t afford to keep giving handouts to the sick and elderly. Refugees are to be incarcerated and vilified for wanting a better life for their families, and all Muslims viewed as terrorists waiting to behead us at the first opportunity.

A sociopath is someone who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience. I’d say that just about sums it up.

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  1. flohri1754

    Spot on …. flowing over with clarity and accurate observations …..

  2. Terry Goulden

    I think you are being too hard on Pell. What you don’t understand is that the Catholic Church was once able to gather the brightest men into their priesthood. Then things changed and the secularistion of society, rejection of celibacy and the reduction of the power of the priesthood has led to it being comprised of those of decidedly lessor intelligence. You have to be pretty dumb to want to be a priest when you could be a financial advisor and make lots of money. Pell would never have been anything other than a very minor priest in past times and intellectually he is right out of his depth. I suspect the same holds true for the LNP as well.

  3. Kaye Lee

    I’m not sure that high intelligence is a prerequisite for empathy. And if the Catholic Church did not impose celibacy on its clergy then perhaps it would attract less pedophiles.

  4. kerrilmail

    Excellent article again Kaye Lee. Well said.

  5. Lesley Ann Porter

    Pell is a bit of a shocker….he has said some things that actually degrade the Catholic church and at the same time he has disgraced himself…it is chillingly in line with our current Governments ideology….

  6. Kaye Lee

    And right on cue, Morrison blames Labor for his failure to protect children in detention. He then said people on Nauru were not his responsibility.

    “Mr Morrison was presented with data obtained by the Commission, which found that the average length of time spent in detention had almost tripled to 349 days as of July 2014.

    Mr Morrison said the fault lay with Labor and the Greens for blocking moves for temporary protection visas.

    Staff employed on the Nauru Immigration Detention Centre detailed allegations of multiple violations of human rights in a submission to the National Inquiry into Children in Immigration Detention.

    The 53-page document lodged by Save the Children Australia employees details multiple reports of sexual assault involving asylum seeker children, stating that no “working with children” safety check system exists in Nauru.

    Mr Morrison has been critical of Dr Triggs, saying some of the allegations made were “sensational”.”

  7. John Fraser


    Morrison is proud that he has "saved" 100+ children.

    Morrison is doing nothing about the other 500+ children.

    Innocents locked up by successive Australian governments.

    You just know its wrong when the churches come out and condemn Morrison.

    Link :

    Note the photo of the children behind the wire.

    And ask yourself how Australia can do this.

  8. Anne Byam

    Great article Kaye … thank you again.

    Also agree with your comment about celibacy. It is not a ‘normal’ following to require a man to do ( and the requirement is not always followed btw ) …. frankly, I think priests should be allowed to marry. That would not stop paedophilia altogether, but would certainly go quite a way to contain it. Added to this, when priests give ‘counselling’ about marriage, they at least might know what they are talking about, if they themselves are married. As it stands, their advice comes from books – and not all the same books, either. One claimed to me once, that he understood ‘better than anyone’, the ideals of marriage and what it’s dynamics were. From ‘his observances’ in his congregation. Well pardon me ( and I said it to him ) ” unless you have played the game, you cannot possibly understand the rules and the many hundreds of dynamics exposed, within those rules” …. he was not too impressed.

    Whether it has been addressed by the Catholic Church or not – we have no way of knowing. That is, the possibility that the priesthood / brotherhood, attracts or has attracted in the past, paedophiles. Much the same as some in the teaching profession, Boy Scouts, etc … wherever the kids are, they will follow. But that’s another can of worms.

    Agree with statements here about Pell, but I don’t think Kaye was too hard on him. He has a duty to perform – he has been elevated to a very high position, and should be able to speak at that level. No excuses. I heard his statement about a company employee picking up a woman for the night …. I was shocked at the analogy, too.

    As for anything Kevin Andrews and Corey Bernardi might say ( as per your article Kaye ) …. it’s a big – pfffft – to them both. They are not to be trusted and are certainly not worth listening to. Bernardi I believe – ( but can provide no reference for it at this stage ) has a very big plan on his Agenda. That is to be head of an LNP Government one day. Of course, they’d have to exonerate him and let him back into House, but he’s part the way there, being elected a South Australian Liberal Senator. God help us if ever HE gets a shot at the big time.

  9. JohnB

    In the light of Cardinal Pell’s testimony yesterday (21 Aug) I would like him to be asked whether he still supports the “Pontifical Secret” as Vatican policy, and if not, why he has he not made representations to the Pope to rescind it.

    This ABC radio ‘Religion and Ethics’ report serves to provide an explanation of why the Catholic Church in Australia has been systematically secretive/evasive on clergy sexual abuse complaints, and why Bishops have failed to report these crime to the relevant police service:

    “Sex abuse and international secrecy imposed by the Vatican”

    “For 1500 years, the Catholic church handed sex abusing clergy over to civil authorities for punishment. That was normal Catholic practice. Then, in 1922 the then Pope Pius the XI created an international policy of absolute secrecy. Sex abuse became a ‘Secret of the Holy office’….

    ..Former NSW judge Kieran Tapsell has pointed this out in a new book, Potiphar’s Wife: The Vatican’s Secret and Child Sexual Abuse. The book exposes the ‘Pontifical Secret’ in Canon Law. It spells out why thousands of bishops across the world have not reported sex abusing clergy to police, and in an organised way, were specifically forbidden from reporting them to civil authorities. This has been an official but secret policy, directly from the Vatican.”

  10. townsvilleblog

    If an action is against the law, then it is illegal, if you engage in illegal conduct then you will be prosercuted surely this is not a difficult concept to understand, even for LNP members?

  11. diannaart

    Pell’s uncomprehending responses to questions reveals why so many in the Catholic Church felt they could hide abusive clergy – leaders set the example.

    While I agree that priests should be able to marry – this is rather missing the point – why so many men are forcing children into sex, instead of finding an adult with whom to have a liaison?

  12. Ricardo29

    I don’t know how you continue to write such absolutely spot on pieces but thanks and keep it up, hard though I am sure it must be for you.

  13. John Fraser


    "A sociopathic lack of empathy"

    Hold the phone.

    Abbott can't get Hockeys stinking carcass of a Budget passed through parliament.

    So Abbott is going to save Australians from another election.

    Isn't that ………. empathy ….. ?

    Or is it cowardice ?

  14. Dan Rowden

    […]frankly, I think priests should be allowed to marry[…] That would not stop paedophilia altogether, but would certainly go quite a way to contain it.

    I think we may need to exercise some caution with our language here. Sexually abusing a child no more makes one a pedophile than guys raping other guys in jails makes them homosexual. Most sexual abuse of minors is carried out by sexually active males, more often than not known to the victims. Most abusers don’t fit the psychological profile of an actual pedophile, which is a quite specific pathology.

    As for the notion of a link between catholic celibacy and child sexual abuse, I can’t find any real evidence for it. Maybe someone pushing that idea could point me to some social research that cogently argues such a relationship.

    The way to decrease child sexual – and other – abuse is reform of our notions and the functionality of institutionalisation. For some odd reason, as soon as humans beings get involved in institutions of any kind, appalling behaviour of various kinds follows …

  15. Kaye Lee

    I am frustrated, dispirited, angry and tired but I feel I must do whatever I can to rid this country of the scourge that is now attacking our way of life. Abbott and his cohorts present a clear and present danger far greater than any imagined terrorist threat.

    “Judged on their decisions to date, we now have a government that sees inequality as an objective to be met, not a challenge to be overcome. This is appalling in the here and now and devastating for the future.”

    “Australia’s federal environment minister, Greg Hunt, has launched an extraordinary attack on the head of the Australian Solar Council, John Grimes, after comments the ASC chief made on ABC radio, criticising the Coalition’s “broken promises” on support for renewable energy.

    Hunt described Grimes as a “total failure of an industry leader” on Brisbane’s 621 Mornings program on Thursday, and said he should be “utterly ashamed” of comments he made suggesting the environment minister had been “sidelined” in a government that was firmly anti-renewables.”

    You may wish to have your say about renewable energy in a survey being conducted by the Australian.

  16. jimhaz

    To quote comedian Deanne Smith (paraphrased badly as my memory is hopeless)

    ‘I just wish we could all love each other, like babies love milk, like astronauts love stars, like Christians love illogical arguments”

  17. Kaye Lee


    This is not social research but perhaps may help to explain.

    “Many Catholic priests take a flexible approach to celibacy, tolerated by church leaders, and some believe sex with children or men does not count, a former Melbourne priest said on Wednesday.

    Mr O’Donnell declined to speculate on what percentage of Catholic priests, who must vow to be celibate, were sexually active, but another Melbourne priest has separately suggested it is about half.

    Asked by committee member Andrea Coote whether priests believed only sex with women counted as real sex (breaking celibacy vows), and that homosexual and child sex did not, Mr O’Donnell said: ”Sometimes.”

    He said another priest told him the celibacy requirement would never change because so many priests were gay and it was ”great cover. No one asks me why I am 50 and single – they assume I am celibate,” the priest told Mr O’Donnell.

    Read more:

    A 2005 article in the Western People, a conservative Irish newspaper proposed that celibacy itself had contributed to the abuse problem. There is a suggestion that the institution of celibacy has created a “morally superior” status that is easily misapplied by abusive priests. According to this paper, “The Irish Church’s prospect of a recovery is zero for as long as bishops continue blindly to toe the Vatican line of Pope Benedict XVI that a male celibate priesthood is morally superior to other sections of society.” Christoph Schönborn and Hans Küng have also said that priestly celibacy could be one of the causes of the sex abuse scandals within the Catholic Church.

    Most information available involves adolescents of the age of 11 years and older which is the age group most frequently abused. It has been asserted that for some priests the development of their sexual feelings stopped changing when they entered celibacy, so they act as if they were adolescents themselves.

  18. jimhaz

    [I don’t know how you continue to write such absolutely spot on pieces but thanks and keep it up, hard though I am sure it must be for you]

    I’m worried about burn out – still a long way to the next election. Mind you, many articles will still be relevant and can be reinvented anew.

  19. Wayne Turner

    Great article – Spot on.

    The Lib hypocrites complaining about the media is laughable – The same media that promoted these Libs (and their LIES) to get in,in the first place.

    These Libs are unfit to run anything.

  20. Wayne Turner

    Also,of course EVERY TIME these Libs make excuses,mainly blaming Labor – IT’S A LIE! After pre-election promise of: “NO EXCUSES”.

  21. MacGregor Scott

    Certainly keen on deciding for all what the dole was created for though, and what manipulation of, integrity, ‘morality’ and ethics should be attached…..

  22. Dan Rowden

    Oh, but Wayne, you have it all wrong – blaming Labor isn’t an “excuse”, it’s merely a reason. Language is such a beautiful thing …

  23. diannaart

    Thanks for link to poll, Kaye Lee

    I wonder if The Australian is prepared for the answers?

  24. Kaye Lee

    I gave my answers early in the piece dianna but at that time it was overwhelmingly in favour of renewable energy even if it costs more. This is one poll that may end up in the shredder.

  25. Wayne Turner

    Oh but Dan it’s an excuse/s,and the reason for the excuses are LIARS too eg: NO debt crisis.

  26. Dan Rowden

    Kaye Lee,

    I gave my answers early in the piece dianna but at that time it was overwhelmingly in favour of renewable energy even if it costs more. This is one poll that may end up in the shredder.

    Indeed, which is why I saved the results page to my hard drive. It was still only at about 460 votes per question. I might go back in a day or so and look again, though I’m always suspicious of online polls that allow you to vote more than once… and this one appears to.

  27. diannaart

    Am wondering the same Kaye Lee – I just added my answers and poll was still overwhelmingly in favour of renewables. Something I will keep a watch on.

  28. John Fraser


    How did you go with the Bob Dylan Link above ?

    Once it started playing did you use the channel buttons on the left of the tv ?

    Its "Interactive".

    Just love technology.

  29. trevor

    Corporate Religion.

    Move along, there is nothing to see here.

  30. abbienoiraude

    “….and their daughters being promiscuous”.
    Just jumped out at me as being so archaic, this statement, this view.
    Funny old men aren’t they?

    (Great piece again Kaye!)

  31. corvus boreus

    My contender for the best recent buck-pass/justification for the clearly unacceptable is redneck moron, sociopathic arsehole and generally pathetic and dishonest excuse for a human being Barnaby Joyce for his disgusting defense of cold-blooded murder/domestic terrorism being the fault of native vegetation legislation.
    His underlying message; kill public officials enforcing the law and we will change it on behalf of the murderer/terrorist.
    Glenn Turner, father and husband, murdered for doing his job.

  32. randalstella

    Joyce does take the cake for exemplary depravity.
    Over at the miniscule ABC site, Media Watch Message Board, you can see the LNP nutcases and deadbeats offering sympathy – for the gunman. One weaseling piece of crap refers to the shooting as “unjustifiable but understandable”. It appears there in the spirit of ABC ‘balance’, I guess.

  33. corvus boreus

    I, too can ‘understand’ the motivation behind the killing of Mr Turner as well.
    There are some people who choose to break the law, then act with homicidal violence when held to legal account.
    They are called murderous criminals.
    Respect and thanks for your thoughts.

  34. John Kelly

    Great article, Kaye. The Catholic Church lost its sense of responsibility when it realised how much money it was likely to lose. The trucking analogy by Pell demonstrates just how low their morality has descended.

  35. Uppercut

    If the trucking company decided to punish the truck driver by making him read the road rules manual once a day for say 3 months and promise never to do it again. Then move him to another route where he committed the sin again. Is the truck company then liable?

  36. Gleebo

    Another thoughtful article from Kaye Lee. My only point of difference, would be to offer, that they are not all sociopaths. Many of them tick the boxes, for being psychopaths. The brainwashing that goes on in these ‘think tanks’ must be quite thorough. This is the psychopath checklist I used.,d.c2E

  37. John Fraser


    Be nice if the "Roman Catholic Trucking Company" was made to pay the same taxes and Rates as other trucking companies in Australia.

    Liable to exactly the same fines and jail time.

    And Directors and the CEO held directly responsible.

    Happy to let the owner (upstairs) off with a caution.

  38. corvus boreus

    John F,
    It would also be ‘nice’ if they couldn’t claim any legal exemption from handing over records of their employees’ conduct, and their own responses to such, to the courts of this land.

  39. John Fraser


    @corvus boreus

    My recollection may be flawed but I thought Pell promised all records would be made available to the Royal Commission.

  40. Anne Byam

    @ Gleebo …. Kind of wish you hadn’t posted that link !!! Too many boxes ticked for the current ‘alleged’ head of our country.

    Could give me nightmares. Most of the points were frighteningly, just too close to the mark. Especially no. 18 … could well refer to the treatment dished out relentlessly to Julia Gillard when she was Prime Minister.

    Way too interesting …. !! ( has given me the shudders as I type ).

    Still and all, guess we have to be careful of what we say – to a degree, and to whom we refer these explanations of particular behaviour.

  41. Roger

    Great article kaye!

  42. corvus boreus

    John F,
    I have since got clarity on a quote I half-heard on the radio yesterday(while concentrating on traffic).
    Pell defended a refusal by the Vatican secretary of state to release all documentation of Australian abuse complaints to the enquiry.
    He called them the ‘”inner working documentation of another sovereign state”.
    I think North Korea and the Vatican are the only states on the planet with an assumption of divine infallabilty in their leaders.

  43. Rick

    “This lack of empathy is the most frightening part of the current government and the people to whom they listen. ”

    Kaye a person can only be empathetic if they actually have been through a similar situation. Having said that, they are still not showing sympathy.

  44. Anne Byam

    @ Rick …. I agree with what you have stated – to a degree.

    Empathy, as you mentioned to Kaye, comes from having been through similar experiences in life. However, a person can be empathetic, without having any compassion or understanding whatsoever -…. and vice versa.

    Case in point : A friend of mine is one of the kindest, most willing to help people I have ever met. She has also been through some terrifying experiences in her life, almost losing her husband to heart attack being one of them. She’s had her share of troubles.

    However, she shows no empathy whatsoever … although she does show compassion, in the form of ” what can I do to help “. ALWAYS there to help. I cannot fault her on that, nor would I want to. Introduce any subject from a personal experience, as to how she is dealing with a sad or troubling situation, how we deal with it etc. and she shuts down. She cannot handle empathy or the expression of it. She does however handle sympathy —- in the form of doing something to help others. That is good – and kind.

    On the other hand, – a family member of mine, will show no sympathy or empathy for anything although I know she’s been through some very trying experiences. Yet she displays an inordinate amount of understanding, in a professional and almost detached kind of way. She gets involved on a personal level – but only to a degree, and then switches off. She protects herself in this way. It has the impression of being left ‘dangling’.

    THIS, I beg to suggest, is the way Australians are feeling at this time – ‘ left dangling ‘.

    A good corporate head of office, learns everything he/she can about human nature, it’s foibles and troubles. And they incorporate that into their leadership. At least that’s been my experience – the difference being between good and bad heads of corporations. It is the leaders who learn everything they possibly can about human reaction and interaction, who lead their companies in the best possible manner.

    This Government – with it’s autocratic stances, don’t WANT to learn about people – their everyday life and struggles. They show no empathy ( even if they have experienced difficulties in their own lives ) … they show no sympathy – and they certainly do not show any compassion or understanding of the grass roots of Australian life – overall. …. they protect THEMSELVES first – to further their pursuit of power, greed ( and the good life after politics ). They would claim this is the way of politics – how it has to be. I say BS to that … there are many ways to solve problems, without punishing people, to do it.

    This makes them VERY bad leaders. NO understanding whatsoever, of the needs of people on many levels and in many sectors. And they have no intention of trying to understand, or show any compassion. ( Ye Gods – this might show weakness ???? We can’t allow that to happen. ) That in itself, however, is the biggest weakness of all, and will bring them down – eventually.

    This folks, is what we have, what we are dealing with – and ultimately what we need to stand up to.

  45. Anne Byam

    I don’t give a tuppenny stuff if this in on the right thread / post or not.

    No doubt, many have already seen it – but in case you haven’t ….. …. PLEASE read.

    Says a whole heap here – and we might hang our heads in shame – all because of this blithering bloody idiot Abbott, allegedly running things.

    Amazing how so many onlookers see most of the game….. And good that the Los Angeles Times, can write such a succinct article, summing up so much. Will repost this link wherever appropriate.

    And will now leave it with you.

  46. billy moir

    i hope you are wrong about bolt because my understanding he could vent his opinion on groups but he put names to his opinion and he got done for that???

  47. Terry2

    Kaye, I heard the 2GB interview with Abbott where he tried to excuse the Liberal Party in NSW over the ICAC revelations.

    This interview could only have taken place on an uncritical, pandering media outlet like 2GB. How on earth can an interviewer (I assume they don’t call themselves journalists) uncritically accept a suggestion from the Prime Minister of Australia that attempts to subvert the law of a state and then, evidently, launder the money through the federal office was a defect in the law.

    I’m not sure which I find more confronting, the illegal practices of the Liberal party, their contempt for the law and their brown paper bags or the pandering of the compliant media : both are creepy !

  48. corvus boreus

    It is confronting to decency when our ‘prime minister’ makes stuttering excuses for dodgy developers brown-bagging politicians, both knowingly transgressing existing laws.
    It is disturbing when he grovels pitifully to a lying racist like bolt about lying when promising to further empower bigots and racists.
    It is down-wrong creepy when he sits leering under a rug flanked by sleazy and slimy scum like Alan Jones and Graeme Richardson, like a repulsive reptile lounging between two toads.
    My sense of offense at this is compounded by the fact that he chooses to pick from the public pocket for him to consort and cavort with such filth.

  49. Carol Taylor

    Terry2 and,

    …uncritically accept a suggestion from the Prime Minister of Australia that attempts to subvert the law of a state and then, evidently, launder the money through the federal office was a defect in the law.

    This something which has been noted as an schizotypal unusual characteristic of the PM, he must be *right* about everything and to such an extent that all logic evaporates, facts twisted, and which often involves delusional interpretations of events and sequences of events. However, the stand-out is that everything always has to be somebody else’s fault. We will see this more and more as he attempts to fit facts and logic into his own interpretation of reality.

  50. Terry2

    I take your point, Carol but what worries me is that normally this type of delusional behaviour would be probed and questioned by the ‘fourth estate’ and a charlatan quickly exposed ; can you imagine any one of the excellent ABC journalists allowing this nonsense to go through to the keeper ?

  51. Möbius Ecko

    Terry2 I was posting something along a similar line but you beat me to it.

    Abbott is only getting away with his gross projections/unusual characteristic because our current MSM is allowing him to. When confronted with it by the media he either stumbles, brain freezes or runs away, all of which make him look terrible and wanting as a person let alone as a leader of the nation.

  52. corvus boreus

    Given the inability of Tony dum-dum to either articulate or obfuscate convincingly when subjected to even semi-competent media scrutiny, I would be fascinated to watch his conduct were he to be subjected to rigorous inquiry with full scrutiny (particularly under oath without privilege), by perspicacious minds possessing acute legal acumen.
    He is too scared to even front the court of public opinion by attending Q&A on our national broadcaster, preferring to be ‘subjected’ to the (Dorothy Dix style)soft cliché/slogan prompt lines delivered by sycophantic propagandists representing limited commercial interests, many of whom have been repeatedly sanctioned for disseminating flagrant falsehoods.
    No wonder he opposes the idea of fronting a full legal inquiry into corrupt conduct in federal politics.

  53. diannaart


    Not just Abbott, his entire ministry appears to be suffering the same illness.

  54. diannaart

    Most excellent link, Anne. Thank you.

  55. Kaye Lee

    The main committee room in Canberra’s Parliament House has been quietly booked out by an unnamed MP for an anti-gay marriage summit promoted by the World Congress of Families.

    Gays will be occupying the bench for Team Australia along with most of the rest of us for one reason or another.

  56. Anne Byam

    Kaye …. this meeting, sounds to me, a little like a congregating mob from the Westboro Baptist Church (WBC). Anti-abortion, anti-divorce, anti-everything American unaffiliated Baptist church known for it’s extreme ideologies, and in particular it’s hatred of gay people. It is not in any way recognised or condoned by the true Baptist Church alliances.

    HOWEVER, the World Congress of Families, headquartered in Illinois, USA, is a far gentler, more kindly disposed organisation, with some very good promotions for better life, control of violence, zero child abuse etc. than the WBC. It also has some ideologies that would conflict with what is going on in our own Parliament at this time. From : ….. a couple of statements, admittedly taken out of the body of statements, but not necessarily out of context.

    ” >>> isolation of the elderly, excessive taxation and below-replacement fertility. >>> ” ( below-replacement fertility is, I believe, not yet an issue here, but could become one, if draconian Tony gets his way. )

    ” >>> Because just governments and creative human enterprise and charity offer the best hope for addressing the problems of poverty, hunger and disease, no country should be coerced to accept policies of “population control.” >>>

    So now they are going into the main committee room in Parliament house, booked by an ‘unknown’ MP …. to discuss some of the ramifications of family life in general …. a lot of it probably positive and good … but part of their charter is against some of the very ideas that this Government is promoting, and attempting to push through as legislation. I sincerely hope they address the above two issues while their bums are on Parliament House seats. i.e.

    ISOLATION OF THE ELDERLY …. most likely would happen under this Government.
    EXCESSIVE TAXATION ….. definitely under this Government ( except for the very wealthy )
    JUST GOVERNMENTS …. we don’t have one.
    POVERTY ….. people without jobs and nothing to sustain them while searching for jobs. No food, housing ?
    HUNGER ….. drastic changes made which would reduce the efficacy of family income ( fill in the details yourselves )
    DISEASE. ….. possible, because a percentage of the population will put off going to the Doctor, or having tests – with the $7 tax.

    Am now wondering if it is gratis, or is being paid for – by the meeting ??? And whether the ‘unknown’ MP will get a severe rap over the knuckles for this rather odd initiative.

    Could be interesting.

  57. Anne Byam

    Corvus … Abbott will avoid anything that could even minutely expose any corruption in Federal politics, and thus expose any more of his weaknesses.

    In fact he fronts nothing … blathering away ad nauseum, almost every day on our TV screens, and hiding behind anything he can find to avoid or divert criticism. Mentally incapable of accepting anything but himself and his warped ideologies.

    A weak minded, weak willed and dangerous person … I hesitate to call him a ‘man’.

  58. Terry2

    When I was working I was obliged to wear a tie daily which was no hardship in fact I accumulated a rack of something in the order of eighty ties of various hues, striped and plain and I was always on the lookout for new ones. Now, sadly they have mainly been dispersed to my sons or Vinnies and several can be seen restraining tomato vines at various times of the year.

    It has not escaped my notice that our Prime Minister has only one tie a plain blue one which, whilst it may go with his white shirt and fake tan, is quite boring.

    Whilst I have no affection for the man or his policies I can’t have him loping around on the world stage representing us with that old blue one so I have decided to buy him a new tie for Christmas, possibly a floral one, perhaps with a palm tree and a hula girl reminiscent of the sartorial splendour of our own Knight of the realm, Sir Leslie Patterson KCMG.

    Now, you can’t be more bipartisan than that, can you.

  59. Anne Byam

    I have only just read here, Kaye’s comment about the following, hereunder : ( not sure how I missed the thrust of it, in the first place ).

    [ Kaye quoted 2 days ago …. and I do believe her references … had seen the same thing reported elsewhere.]

    Ref : “Many Catholic priests take a flexible approach to celibacy, tolerated by church leaders, and some believe sex with children or men does not count, a former Melbourne priest said on Wednesday. FLEXIBLE ??? DOES NOT COUNT ????

    THAT is intolerable. Utterly, utterly intolerable. This ‘former Melbourne priest’ ( former – why ? opted out of his vocation, is retired, is a rebellious priest on sabbatical leave ??? ) … said these things ?? What in God’s name ( yes GOD’s name ) could this creature possibly be trying to justify ? That is abhorrent. In the extreme. “Sex with children [ or men ] does not COUNT ” ??? A man can consent – be a willing [ or not ] partner … a child ? NOOOOO.

    Ref : ” Mr O’Donnell declined to speculate on what percentage of Catholic priests, who must vow to be celibate, were sexually active, but another Melbourne priest has separately suggested it is about half.”

    That would be about correct, I believe. I speak from personal experience, although I do not have the desire to go into much detail. I WAS subject to a ‘priestly intervention’ … ( sh*te ) …. fueled by physical male strength / control and a lot of alcohol imbibed by him – the priest.

    He also made the observation to me at the time ( I will never forget any of this ) … that I was ‘saving him’ … from becoming gay or worse. He did not go into the ‘worse’ ??

    Why didn’t I report it ? …. tell me, who would have believed me ? That I had been held hostage by a priest … for his own, booze fueled, controlling and carnal pleasure. I CAN tell you this …. I vomited for 4 weeks solid after it all happened. Family were very worried about my ‘illness’. UNTIL I faced him down. Then I let him have it in spades, by letter, and yes – threats – and the wimp left for parts unknown for 1 year. A ‘sabbatical’ I believe it was called. What a @##$%^$ joke. …. I had known this bloke for years … then I didn’t know him at all. He had become an absolute monster. Due no doubt to his daily hefty drinking habits, and his penchant for drugs. Is that an excuse ? Is it ?


    This whole bloody thing is up the creek, and for Pell and his dumbed down Vatican chums to deliberately turn away from the gross activities of certain numbers of the Catholic Clergy – is also intolerable. They should, they must, be held to account.


  60. Anne Byam

    @ Dan …. you think that one should exercise caution with one’s language here ? ( your comment going back a couple of days )

    Quoting you ” Sexually abusing a child no more makes one a pedophile than guys raping other guys in jails makes them homosexual. Most sexual abuse of minors is carried out by sexually active males, more often than not known to the victims. Most abusers don’t fit the psychological profile of an actual pedophile, which is a quite specific pathology.”

    It IS a specific pathology.

    However, the rest of your comment is bull – surely you know that. Men taking on other men, whether by consent or not – is male to male ADULT. It is not right by any means, but in close and closeted situations like jail, it does and will continue to happen. And it indeed does not necessarily make the dominant male ( controlling and / or brutal ), specifically homosexual. There are many many factors involved in that equation. And they are ADULTS.

    But a CHILD ? Excuse me, but any person – no matter whether or not they are known to the child, who penetrates and / or sexually interferes with a child – is indeed a PAEDOPHILE. There is absolutely NO other way to describe them and their vile intentions. It is a psychiatric disorder of adult personality and behaviour. That however, does not excuse them. It might explain their attraction, but it does NOT excuse them from acting upon it. They need psychiatric and / or medication help. So many of them do not seek it, or if they do, don’t continue it. Because their pathological gratification remains, or becomes, paramount.

    I think perhaps, it is you who should exercise caution.

  61. diannaart

    The results are in for the Powering Australia poll. Conducted by no less than The Australian.

    Check out how the results are displayed; first two are straight forward – the majority vote is displayed, but then venture further down the page….

    Question “Do you approve of the extraction of coal seam gas via hydraulic fracturing (fracking)?”

    The total of Yes votes is…. 5% – yup in big letters a total of 5% voted FOR fracking out of 1,912 votes.

    Don’t take my word for it, check it out here:

  62. Dan Rowden


    I think perhaps, it is you who should exercise caution.

    The only caution I need to exercise is in the language of my response to you. You are wrong. It’s that simple. Situational and circumstantial abuse of children does not automatically make the abuser a pedophile. As I said, and as you agreed, pedophilia is a specific pathology. Not all child abusers suffer that pathology, i.e. they don’t all possess and express a primary sexual desire for pre-pubescent children. Stating that sexually abusing a child makes you a pedophile is factually wrong. You clearly didn’t understand the logic of my jail rapists analogy.

    The sad fact is some folk are just evil opportunists because most child abuse is all about power and opportunity. The abusers who do indeed suffer from a pedophilic pathology are arguably the most dangerous because they are the ones who will actively seek out those opportunities, as opposed to those that merely exploit the fact of them. Either way, institutional reform is necessary for the eradication of such abuse because God knows we’re never going to achieve a reformation of the worst elements of human nature..

  63. Anne Byam

    @ diannaart – that is VERY revealing … as are all the polls on that page. The percentages are fantastic, displaying absolute antithesis to this Government’s idiotic thinking.

    I wonder what ” the Australian ” newspaper is really up to ? Are they helping the Abbott, learn what he should and shouldn’t do ? If he has half a brain ( doubt ? ) … he will …. maybe ….. read and take note of his favourite newspapers’ polls. And act accordingly, to help Australia – as he should.

    However, I won’t hold my breath.

  64. Dan Rowden


    Question “Do you approve of the extraction of coal seam gas via hydraulic fracturing (fracking)?”

    The total of Yes votes is…. 5% – yup in big letters a total of 5% voted FOR fracking out of 1,912 votes.

    It’s hard to know how to interpret them displaying the results that way. They did it for 3 of the questions and were doing it that way the whole time. Kind of odd.

  65. diannaart

    Very odd, Dan.

    Definitely keeping track on this.

  66. Anne Byam

    @ Dan ….. I DID get your analogy – regarding jail rape, thank you !!

    The use of the word ‘paedophile’ is in fact subjective, isn’t it. What I believe you are saying, is there are two types of abusers who use children for sexual pleasure. The true paedophile and the opportunistic monster. There is a difference between opportunism in child sexual abuse, and that of the pathological response ( paedophiles seek out where children are, choose a victim and try to act to their choice, or driven pathological need ).

    Whichever it is, they come under the same category / heading …. which is SEX OFFENDER against CHILDREN.

    ” Situational and circumstantial abuse of children” ?

    ….. taking the case of any man ( women have been sexual predators too, but a very much smaller % ) who conducts these acts on children of both sexes, it is my opinion that they especially need the strongest of judicial reprimand. There is much anecdotal evidence, that the perpetrators of these crimes, often ask, tell ( or even threaten the child ) to never tell about it ” it’s our secret ” etc. The child usually obeys. They obey the perceived power and dominance of the adult. Power and dominance is often the driving force behind a predators actions.

    A sense of right and wrong works quite well in the predator. Any number of reasons, the adult wants to keep it all secret, includes the knowledge that if he is found out, he might be seriously injured in some way, or locked up in jail for a long time. It is criminal.

    I believe it is more than possible that the “situational and circumstantial abuser of a child” – who was NOT a paedophile to begin with, can BECOME one. A pathological dependence develops, similarly to e.g. a problem gambler, who simply can NOT stay away from gambling, despite what it does to him / her, their self esteem, their income, family commitments etc … I know – it’s not a good analogy – but, it’s too broad a subject to try for any other example, at this time.

    Nothing EXCUSES any adult, interfering sexually with a young child. The damage caused to the child is often horrendous, and of very long duration – a life time in fact.

    ALL sex offenders against children, need to be dealt with in the harshest possible terms. And – getting back to topic …. that includes priests / brothers / ministers who offend in this vile way against children.

    End of ……..

  67. Dan Rowden


    Nothing EXCUSES any adult, interfering sexually with a young child.

    That’s right, not even the existence of a pathology. Luckily the law agrees, even is certain politicians and clergyman give the impression of not wanting to …

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