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Rome must fall …

I am unsure if I have posted this here before or on my own blog … but I have in any case up-graded it and present it here for your perusal.

You have to read this cameo of historical example first:

“The Visigoths, severed from their brethren but saved from the brunt of the Mongol assault by the mere fact that they lived further west than the Ostrogoths, desperately sought protection by appealing to Rome for asylum. There, they ran up against an impermeable shield of customs stations at the Roman border, a veritable wall of imperial disdain which was by then standard policy when barbarians began wailing and waving their hands. Thus squeezed between scorn and the spear, the Visigoths panicked and not a few tried to push their way into Roman territory. Facing a surge of frantic immigrants, the Roman Emperor Valens had little choice but to relent and let them in.

Once inside the boundaries of Rome, the Visigoths found safety but at the same time a new and in many ways more dangerous foe. As new-comers to Roman civilization, they were ill-equipped to live in a state run on taxes and mired in the complex language of legalities, and thus made easy prey for unscrupulous, greedy imperial bureaucrats who cheated and abused them. Very quickly, the Visigoths found themselves bound in something heavier and more constricting than chains—the gruesome coils of red tape—and they responded as any reasonable barbarian would: they demanded fair treatment and, when their pleas went unheard, they embarked upon a rampage.

Valens called out his army, a threat meant to intimate the Visigoths into returning to their designated territory and tithe. But like the truant step-children they were, the barbarians remained disobedient. Left with no other recourse but corporal punishment, Valens met the Visigoths in combat at the Battle of Adrianople (378 CE) in northeastern Greece, and what happened was not only unexpected but unthinkable to any Roman living then, or dead. Primed by the insults to their pride—or because they were simply scared out of their minds—the Visigoths defeated and massacred the Roman legions sent to keep them in their room. Worse yet, Valens himself was killed in the course of the conflict” (The Fall of Rome: Facts and Fictions).

The desperation of the Goths is reflected in this day and age by the mass of refugees fleeing several conflicts and disasters and trying to come to Australia. There is a series of circumstances afoot, both political and climate that is urging the one against the other to move whole peoples in an unstoppable surge of desperation for safety and refuge. The blunt refusal to take any “boat people” may not be the best solution for the Australian government. Also risky of course is any uncontrolled “open border” policy that creates an expectation of a surge of refugees to Australia’s shores. There has to be a regional solution. The Anglo/European governing class is in the process of hauling up the draw-bridge in the hope of maintaining a kind of purity of rule of both blood-line and class … as the above example demonstrates, it will fail and fail badly and brutally.

If history tells us anything, it is that once an idea of social direction whose time has come is blocked or deliberately stalled, the society explodes and civil destruction follows … Just as the western Roman Empire had to fall, so perhaps must we here adjust ourselves to the idea that we need to change the make-up of both houses of parliament to allow for the inevitability of a change of cultural expectations in the next several decades that truthfully reflect our geographic location and by consequence the political inevitability in the world.

The notion that a middle-class majority of Anglo/Euro members of parliament is de rigueur to govern our fast rising multi-cultural population is short-sighted. We can choose to secede power in a regulated way, adjust politely to a confederacy of mutual understanding or stubbornly refuse to admit what is fast becoming the bleedin’ obvious of Asian influence and needs of majority population.

The above quote is part of a broader study in why the Roman Empire in the West had to fall so Europe could arise. The Roman Empire was a colonizing state that controlled with arms, ruled with fear and milked with impunity via a capitalist system of the wealthy controlling production and distribution. The 1-3% that held the greatest wealth also held the greatest influence over political policy and ruled the masses with disdain that eventually destroyed itself in the most dramatic way.

Divide and rule was perfected in the Roman strategy … populations would be shunted from one side of the empire to the other so there would be little sympathy to local customs and mores, thereby polarizing those groups of peoples to compete against each other. Likewise, soldiers from western provinces of Gaul were sent to hold the eastern provinces of Palestine … and vise versa. Rule and profit by division worked well while these 3% held absolute control of the military. Once those trained, foreign generals like Alaric became isolated, they gathered their loyal soldiers about themselves and using their trained skills, turned them against the empire itself.

Australia is itself a colony, with all the states separate colonial developments before federation. The nation still shows signs of that early colonial independence and attitude, with some states threatening succession even now! The colonial mentality and its governance by an elite is in evidence still. The divide and rule program very much in practice still … The use and abuse of cheap immigration labour a desire if not also a common practice. The playing of ethnic groups against each other for political purpose still in operation.

We are continuing the practice that failed the Roman Empire so spectacularly and only insanity could desire a success where they failed so miserably! Australia has to develop a new way, a better way to confront this twenty-first century phenomenon of the surge of asylum seekers that have swept across the globe from east to west and west to east. If we continue to believe and practice a “raise the drawbridge” policy, we will be open to the legitimate criticism of demanding an unrealistic isolationist existence in a region of realistic inclusion. The added reality of climate change with rising sea levels and drying cropping areas in the delta regions of Sth East Asia could bring a avalanche of climate refugees who have little sympathy with a resource rich, land rich, population poor nation just over that stretch of water.

Military arms alone will not, as the above historical example shows, stop the surge of desperate people who may not have anything left to lose.

Australia needs to engage much, much more cooperatively and socially with our northern neighbours to create a regional safety net for any temporary shifts of population as required after any disasters , natural or sociological, to allow a safety-valve result rather than an uncontrolled explosive conflagration. To consolidate our “authority” over the land of this continent, we also need to very quickly complete a treaty with the Indigenous peoples and to bring those peoples completely into the political process and policy making of this nation. For they are the measure of integrity of antiquity of ownership of the nation and for us who migrated here from everywhere else, to claim a right of rule over the land, we have to allow equal partnership with an agreed treaty with the original inhabitants of this land … it only stands to reason.

Rome had to fall so that a democratic Europe could arise … We here in Australia must learn from the hard experience of Europe and begin to implement attitude and social change to create a more homogeneous governance with this multicultural population, or risk the result foreseen in history of the demise of our ideal of social order and civil governance.


  1. AnnaMargaret

    Australia may well find herself even more reliant on imports moving forward as climate change adversely affects our ability to grow much food – innovative thinkers who have already experienced hardships we cannot imagine could be enormously valuable to our society – heaven forbid such a dangerous thought but we might actually be glad of the opportunity to help each other

  2. Freethinker

    AnnaMargaret, the day that we lose out ability to produce our own food will be the day that we will lose our sovereignty.
    If Israel is capable to grow their own food to keep their sovereignty there is no reason for Australia not to do it if the government has the will and patriotic values.
    Australia should export food not import them.

  3. Jack Russell

    Or … take care of our own needs first and then, and only then, export the GENUINE surpluses … of everything, not just food.

    One day we’ll stop empire-builfing too … wouldn’t that be nice.

  4. Joseph Carli

    Many years ago, back in the seventies, if my memory serves me correctly, I wrote to the then State minister for agriculture (was it Virgo?) suggesting that the railway line to Alice Springs be completed to Darwin, and irrigation produce farms be set up on Eyre Peninsula using artesian water channeled to such basins via rain directed channels into known aquifers so that the water could be stored underground and saved from evaporation…the resulting vegetable produce could be exported to Asia via the rail link to the Port of Darwin….

    I recall the reply I got said wtte. ” You let us worry about growing and exporting veggies and you worry about you own business…” I remember it was quite dismissive and rude…and here we are..

  5. Freethinker

    Joe, Tasmania have excellent soils, water quality for irrigation and short distances to ports.
    Tasmania can be more than the salad bowl for Australia.
    We need a better land distribution will will create more sustainable production and employment.
    The agrarian reform to not say revolution is needed.

  6. Joseph Carli is not lost on me that I write a post calling on debate about a greater political understanding and embracing of the multiculturalism of both our country and our northern neighbours by changing the selection process of parliamentary members and we end up discussing the viability of growing and shipping veggies…There is an expanse of fertile intellectual tundra on this site that is not apparently interested in debating anything other than whether Mr. Dutton et al is a dirty, rotten, cad that needs his nose twisted in situ!

    And we go away wondering why those major parties seem so similar in policy matters.. Perhaps the problem is not so much in the leadership of political parties , but in the public they are playing to?.. after all, how many times have we witnessed a good sports team grow weak when continually played against lesser quality opposition?

  7. Jack Russell

    Too innovative and practical Joe. Concluders snd producers are such upstarts aren’t they!

    However, now we have huge glasshouses growing top quality food at Porta’gutta, powered by solar and sustained by desalination plants.

    Eyre Peninsula – only good for polluting. Well pfffft to that idea it seems.

    Oh, your mention of rail … a thing I’ve not forgotten: Remember the proposal to excavate a very enormous canal from the top end down to the Bight and flood it with seawater for the benefits of massive evaporation to the dry centre?

  8. Freethinker

    Joe, I have many times posted here that there is not use to criticise the members of the government and saying that they are idiots. Tere are not, they have a different agenda and they are achieving what they want.
    IMO instead of continuously attacking the government ( which will not change) we should ask the opposition for better policies, for innovation for a change of attitude.
    We do not have to convince the AIMN readers that the government is wrong or bad, they know that, we have to motivate all to ask for a change.

  9. Joseph Carli

    Exactly..Freethinker…We all know that Asia is the largest economic driver in this area of the globe and that the many billions of mouths all need to be fed..and even more in the, clothing and shelter..the basic instead of seeing our neighbours as people to be leery of, we ought to see them as comrades in mutual benefit..Aust’ has capacity , those many billions have necessity..Aust’ has the agricultural skills, Asia can make good use of the produce…we can be of mutual assistance rather than suspicious neighbours..

  10. Jack Russell


    The sooner we have politicians actually capable of thinking, then the sooner we will have governments capable of thinking geographically, of putting racist baggage in the bin where it belongs, and of forging an inclusive future for all here, and our neighbours.

    So yes, political candidature by actual merit, and lack of psychopathies.

  11. Freethinker

    I would put it different Jack Russell, I would say: the sooner we have the electorate capable of thinking, then the sooner that they will have the government that Australia needs.
    Our politicians think very well and have the know how to manipulate the electorate.

  12. Joseph Carli

    Jack…I think many people underestimate the positive power of social media…it is a direct connection to our pollies so that when a site like The AIMN proposes and discusses radical policy with enthusiasm and clever policy suggestion, it is noticed..and if the discussion is vibrant and enthusiastic, those proposals will get a mention in conversation at least..It’s just that WE ; The People have to up the ante on radical policy ideas..perhaps on things that the LNP could never touch…some things unashamedly socialist…like reclaiming govt’ ownership of essential utilities, massive investment in public housing..severe regulations on the banks and stock-market speculation ..AND a greater involvement in the social connections with our Asian friends….and more..let’s think outside the capital economic society and inside the social benefit society..

    There’s a whole world out there..I’d like to see us become more a part of it and less a knocker of it..China has got some bloody good ideas…let’s have a look at where we, as a nation, can be of assistance…why not?

  13. Freethinker

    One issue that very rare is addressed in social media including this site is barefoot economics, the one that makes difference and can start from the bottom up.
    I recommend to the fellow bloggers to bookmark this site the Schumacher Center for a New Economics (
    For sure the articles there will inspire the participants in this site to start looking in new ways to make changes instead of trying to change the people in government.

  14. Freethinker

    My apologies Joe if I am hijacking, your thread, I will control my enthusiasm for a change and will post on another opportunities when is in topic.

  15. Jack Russell

    I take your point Wam, and you’re right … thanks for making it.

    Yes Joe, absolutely ALL of that, and the sooner the better! I think of how smart we Aussies have been on the scientific and engineering world stages, and still are … and am very aware of the propoganda making the voters pull the wool over their own eyes … and then, in frustration, I read all about the efforts to hobble the internet – the best means of communication left to the plebs … and about the ideas of forcing a cashless society with our tailor-made NBN … and about getting smarter about deploying our votes while we have them … and, and, and …

    Honestly, it makes me think of pitchforks.

  16. Joseph Carli

    Hijack away, Freethinker…it’s good to see some input on a subject that needs more consideration..when there are so many distractions “out there” that draw some commentary away..

  17. Andrew J. Smith

    What is perceived as a modern electoral tactic ie. ‘dog whistling’ of conservatives, left and right, is deep seated ideology based on eugenics or nativism; aka GOP, Tories and LNP in the Anglosphere, and middle Europe. According to the main ‘architect’ and admirer of the white Australia policy, from SPLC, ‘an American-European majority is required’

    Bannon, Sessions et al. would be strongly influenced by him; he has visited Australia too.

  18. Joseph Carli

    Thank you for that link, Andrew…Unfortunately for those idealists, I do not think you could stop the surge of the oncoming climate refugees regardless of the military intent…We will have enough trouble managing our own climate troubles to coordinate attacks on desperate peoples.

  19. Diana

    Why is there never a comment on the causes of the refugee tide? Why does no-one think about stopping the wars that destroy homes and farms and kill civilians. Why are the refugees blamed for being victims of fighting which has nothing to do with them? If we want to stop the boats, we need to stop the wars

  20. Andrew J. Smith

    He had collaborated with Paul ‘population bomb’ Ehrlich and Paul Watson (Sea Shepherd) at ZPG; supported by Rockefeller (Exxon Mobil & Club of Rome), Fords etc.; ‘sustainability’ etc. blaming climate change on ”immigrants’ , deflecting from fossil fuels, auto, environment regulation etc.; presenting as ‘liberal and environmental’; clever long term PR or astro turfing.

  21. johno

    The Roman Empire analogy is so obvious but humanity seems too dense to see it.

  22. Chris

    thank you Joseph, having lived within Indigenous communities, I am not sure that there is a ‘solution’ to their: food insecurity, incarceration, education, mortality, obesity, diabetes etc. etc. They were passive and welcoming when we arrived and their passivity and dependence upon the State has been their downfall. By contrast, the Kiwi peoples got their treaty from the outset, they weren’t going to be pushovers….and that doesn’t downplay that they are also the downtrodden to our right.

    But I digress. Our governments allow electoral donations so that campaigns can be funded. The donations are a bribe with a different name, but I don’t see anyone, PON included, seeing anything unethical or dangerous by continuing to allow this.

    Another part of the problem here in Australia is the compulsory vote and I think our system was so designed as those in power know that, otherwise, those that want to vote would simply not put up with the charade that we see every day. Even when the corruption becomes visible and we can all see it, nothing changes and, for example, Labor no longer represents the working class, yet we are all too feeble to join Labor and kick the hierarchy out. We need a saviour, but one has yet to materialise (and probably never will in my lifetime, sadly).

    We get the democracy we have been given and, even as tent cities and the homeless proliferate our streets, we put on our blinkers, we walk by the enslaved every single day and do nothing.

    Keep going, mate. Some of us are paying attention.

  23. Freethinker

    Chris January7, 2018 at 6.01, quote: Keep going, mate. Some of us are paying attention

    Sadly no many Chris, I to running out of time to see any important changes.

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