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Ms Gillard’s sickening hypocrisy laid bare

It was with disbelief, and finally contempt, that I watched excerpts of the Al Jazeera interview with former Prime Minister Julia Gillard on the topic of her government’s treatment of waterborne asylum seekers, particularly women and children.

Gillard, now a global advocate for the education of girls and women, employed what has disturbingly become a normalised justification for Australian governments’ increasingly callous torment of women and girls in off-shore detention: we do it to stop people drowning at sea.

I have yet to get my head around the psychopathology of those who believe the torment of one group is justified in order to discourage another group from undertaking a particular action. I think such justifications are teetering precariously on just about every ethical and moral ground I can think of, beginning with the Kantian argument that it is reprehensible to use people as a means to an end, and that people are an end in themselves. To treat them in any other way is to dehumanise them, and ultimately, ourselves.

However, Gillard, Rudd, Abbott and now Turnbull apparently have no difficulty with treating waterborne asylum seekers as a means to an end, and justifying their hideous treatment of them as a necessary deterrent in order to save the lives of others.

It has been said more than a million times: arriving in this country by boat, seeking asylum, is not a crime. Indeed, as we are signatories to the UN Refugee Convention, we actively invite people to arrive here by whatever means they manage to employ.

If we want to save people from drowning at sea, and if we care about the humanity of those we already have in detention, we would cease to use the detained as scapegoats, and as examples of what will happen if you legitimately arrive here by boat. We would instead withdraw from the Refugee Convention. People come to Australia because we invite them, through our participation in the Convention, and our agreement with its principles.

Of course, we aren’t about to take that step. So instead we will continue to ill-treat asylum seekers in off-shore detention. We will continue to justify this crime against humanity by claiming it’s done to save lives.

And Ms Gillard will continue to strut the world stage advocating for the education of women and children but not, regrettably, those she imprisoned in mandatory indefinite dentition in tropical hell holes where they are abused, raped and made mad.

Women for Gillard? Non, merci.

This article was originally published on No Place For Sheep.

 

125 comments

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  1. Dave

    Er, just wondering, who is Jennifer Wilson?

  2. Carol Taylor

    Jennifer Wilson is Jennifer Wilson and Dave who might you be?

  3. Carol Taylor

    Jennifer, one thing that I will never forgive Gillard for and this is her decision to re-open offshore detention centres. What was she thinking, I used to ponder. Political expediency I understand but with full knowledge that Labor was likely to lose the election why was Gillard prepared to leave vulnerable people (the vast majority being genuine refugees) at the less than tender mercies of none other than Tony Abbott. Now it seems that she just didn’t care.

  4. bobrafto

    If Abbott has stopped the boats why do we need to keep torturing the refugees on Manus and nauru?

    and why do we need to award a contract to Transfield for another 5 years?

  5. Mark Needham

    So we really are torturing people.
    How are Transfield and others torturing these people. surely we have a right to know?

    Dave
    November 10, 2015 at 5:30 pm
    Er, just wondering, who is Jennifer Wilson?

    Dave, Jennifer Wilson, is another person like you and me, no one in particular. Just another person in the world who has an opinion on stuff that interests us and has taken time to write her opinion.

    Now, Carol, Carol Taylor, who might you be, to be asking? (A rhetorical question, I do not wish to know)
    Does it matter, who you or Dave or me, who or what we are.
    I would suggest that Dave has enquired, as he may have thought that Jennifer Wilson may have been from Al Jazeera, The Age or The Australian, ie, a professional reporter.
    An honest and simple question, not deserving of your remark I would say.
    Ah well,
    Anonymous

  6. Paddy Forsayeth

    I wholeheartedly agree with Jennifer. I would add that we should adopt the term concentration camps. The British in the Boer war started these camps to corral the families of the Boers to deny the guerrillas a farm and home to sustain themselves. The Nazis turned the concentration camps into extermination camps. The detention camps have the purpose of gathering detainees into a closed area as opposed to having these asylum seekers dispersed throughout the country. These camps also allow the Government to physically, politically and psychologically put this detestable regime out of sight. Labor and Liberal are contemptible in their treatment of asylum seekers and their inability to devise a better and more humane system.

  7. Michael Taylor

    Who is Carol Taylor, you ask. She owns this site.

  8. juliefarthing

    Opinions are fine things to have, as long as they are labelled as such. However, when they are erroneous and misleading, and critical, they are simply propaganda, as in this case. The policies of Gillard, Rudd, Abbott and Turnbull govts bear more differences than similarities, and what this article has quoted as Gillard is actually Abbott.
    Will we let opinions rewrite history, or will we have factual histories documented? I fear it will be the former.

  9. David

    Oh dear someone forgot to feed the Gillard hate animals.You abusers have no idea what Julia was thinking, or what the end result of her intentions ‘may’ have been, had she been able to surmount the gutter dirt campaign directed at her to ensure she was never able to win an election and maybe just maybe by now there would be no Manus or Nauru.
    But of course the author and her fan club being all knowledgeable know what her intentions were, so carry on with your sport, I want no part of it.

  10. Michael Taylor

    David, I don’t think anyone here hates Julia Gillard. Personally, I wish she was still PM! I wouldn’t mind betting that everyone here does.

  11. babyjewels10

    I totally agree Jennifer. I had to change channels. So utterly disappointed in her.

  12. Michael Taylor

    PS: I used to work for her. 🙂

  13. Anon E Mouse

    Not me Michael Taylor. I do not like Gillard. She may be charming when she wants to be, but like most people when they get angry they tend to blurt out their real thoughts. When I met Gillard while she was a shadow minister, her comments to me were alarming and very right winged. This made me keep an eye out on what she was up to.

    When she was deputy to Rudd, I hoped that I had been wrong – but I wasn’t.

    Jennifer names Rudd in with the likes of Gillard, Abbott and Turnbull, but Rudd was far more compassionate.

    Remember though, the Oceanic Viking that picked asylum seekers up in Indonesian waters after they were asked by the govt. While Rudd was trying to work out an arrangement that would see the processing of asylum seekers in Indonesia – Gillard and her gang and the opposition, were undermining him.

    Gillard, once installed as PM suggested that racist talk was ok – normal even – and she reopened the off shore centres. Her East Timor, the Malaysia solutions were not thought out, demonstrating that she really was not as smart as she liked to think she is.

    Rudd in his second round, having to deal with his party and their hardline, put in place some pretty good sweetners and supports for PNG to take refugees. Rudd planned boosting hospitals, education etc, and recognising that many asylum seekers had skills that PNG need, like doctors etc.

    Abbott got in (not sure how -still not confident with the electoral commission) and cut all Rudd’s aid and support and jobs.

    To my mind, Gillard just wanted the racist vote and tried to play Abbott’s line.

  14. Michael Taylor

    Oh how different it would be if way back in 2001 John Howard hadn’t have decided to turn asylum seekers into political pawns. I will never forgive him for this act.

  15. Mark Needham

    enough said.
    Anonymous

  16. PC

    In my book, Gillard is a grubby little crypto-xenophobe, at the very least.

  17. Kaye Lee

    I cannot see the point in the continual blame game. Until we can make this not an argument, until we can drag our leaders together and make this not a political blame game, these people will continue to suffer. They MUST instruct their parties that we are in breach of our international obligations and that we will be immediately releasing these people from detention and bringing them to Australia and providing them with assistance to heal.

    Increase foreign aid and increase our humanitarian intake and get rid of that fool Dutton who still thinks he can stonewall information, oversight, and access.

  18. Matters Not

    Jennifer Wilson, as always, hits the nail on the head. But can I explore another aspect of her ‘legacy’.

    Gillard’s conversion to education and its importance only saw the political light of day after Rudd appointed her to that ministry. Immediately, she became captive to the federal bureaucrats who, like her, had no background in education, lacking in both ‘theory’ and ‘practice’.

    What the bureaucrats shared was the belief that the US ‘knew the way’ (a hangover from the David Kemp years) and convinced her the US direction was the best way. Conveniently, it was Rudd’s view as well. She invited Joel Klein from New York City to provide the ‘direction’. He did. (And then moved on to work for Murdoch.)

    But Gillard was hooked. (Talk about dumb).

    Ms Gillard signed a memorandum of understanding with the US Education Secretary, Arne Duncan, during her recent visit to Washington, under which policy officers from both nations will come together regularly to share ideas.

    Ms Gillard said the two countries faced similar challenges and shared common views on how they should be tackled.

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/we-can-learn-from-us-on-schools-says-gillard-20091018-h2yi.html

    Trevor Cobbold, a spokesman for the public education advocacy group Save Our Schools, said it was ”bizarre” to look to the US for ideas on education.

    ”Why would you sign a memorandum of understanding with a country that’s so far behind us on average results and on dealing with low socio-economic students and minority students?” he said.

    ”We are doing so much better than they are.”

    In many ways, Gillard is like Abbott and Rudd. Slow learners one and all. Fixated by ‘image’ and never considering ‘apologies’.

  19. mars08

    Should the cops rape some women drunk drivers…. as a warning to motorists over this coming festive season?

  20. Matters Not

    Anon E Mouse said:

    but Rudd was far more compassionate

    Rudd would take great offense at that comment. On a good day he was merciless. And proud of it.

    That’s how he treated his ‘friends’.

  21. mars08

    Kaye Lee:
    I cannot see the point in the continual blame game…

    Well, I do. Because both major patries have NO INTENTION of stopping the inhumane treatment inflcted on those innocent, powerless, vulnerable, isolated individuals. The blame for this injustice and cruelty lies with them… and their supporters. I will never forget or forgive the low mongrels who contributed to the current tragedy.

  22. Matters Not

    Because both major patries have NO INTENTION of stopping the inhumane treatment inflcted on those innocent, powerless, vulnerable, isolated individuals

    Can only agree. But don’t we want politicians to represent the views of the community at large?

  23. Matters Not

    juliefarthing wrote:

    Will we let opinions rewrite history, or will we have factual histories documented

    An interesting view of ‘history’.

  24. madeleinekingston

    Jennifer Wilson. Thank you so much. Love your work.

    Gillard’s defense of the policies she was instrumental in implementing and her defense of same are reprehensible, but her predecessor and successor Kevin Rudd and their respective supports were no less acceptable then those of the current dysfunctional LNP Coalition Government in connection with refugee and/or asylum policies; human, civil and/or political rights. Same policies, different babels and/or current so-called leaders.. One-Party Democracy.

    As for the current lot of the Howard mold, past present and/or recent, what can I say?

    May I repeat your own words for now:

    Women for Gillard? Non, merci.

  25. bobrafto

    Mars

    Why stop at women.

  26. donwreford

    Not so much a hypocrite? but programmed by The Tavistock Institute.

  27. madeleinekingston

    So, Dave, in the context of this blog; or indeed any other blog; and/or article, should we all assume that status is more important than the intrinsic value of any given argument? What pity, if this is the case in your reasoning model.

    According to other responder(s), Jennifer Wilson is the owner of the site. Do you have a problem with that; or is there some other problem that you have not identified? I will not be at all offended if you fail to respond. Just routine questioning from the just routine on-line responders. No offence taken if you fail to respond.

  28. madeleinekingston

    Errata. Pardon me. I am so sorry. Mea Culpa. Recent inputs. Apparently, according to Michael Taylor, Carol Taylor owns the site; not as I previously suggested; the author of this article Jennifer Wilson. Just proves we are all vulnerable to human error. Sorry

  29. Jagger

    Unfortunately Jennifer, all high profile politicians have elevated egos , especially the retired ones who will never, even with the benefit of hindsight, accept any responsibility for their failures.

  30. Chris the Greatly Dismayed

    The Brookings Institution was a cheerleader for regime change and civil war in Syria……I don’t think any decent person would work for a group with such ill-founded ideas as them.
    Her first move was to re-institute mandatory detention, NAPLAN seems to be a disastrous experiment (especially as there is no funding to fix any problems it identifies) and the cuts to single parent benefits are destroying opportunities and lives.
    I actually advocated her as a leader over Rudd to Labor Party members in my family but was instantly disappointed when that happened. She chose politicking and image over principle. That is not what Australia needs.
    PS. Thanks for the site Carol Taylor !

  31. Philb

    Forget Gillard’s hypocrisy on the refugee problem. This is the women responsible for giving us Tony Abbott and the implosion of the Australian Labor Party. It is a fact this women in the caucus voted against the pay rise for pensioners and took away social welfare for single mothers. After the party voted for the rises she came out and waxed lyrically how she supported it. The facts don’t back this up. For mine, I’m glad she’s gone I just wish she’d keep her face out of the media. It nauseates some people including myself. Yep a whole load of the poor, the sick, the unemployed and other waifs and strays unsure of their future because of 1. Gillard. 2. A labor party that is slowly losing its support and it’s credibility. Good riddance to her.

  32. madeleinekingston

    So are they really serious Ms Julie Bishop as current Foreign Minister; in the context of Australia’s bid for a seat on the UN Secutity Council an/or Seat Human Rights’s Council; on the basis of Armani outfits and/or broaches influenced by Albright and/or her running skills?

    Oh Good Lord. What a manipulator

  33. madeleinekingston

    So what could be the motivations of immaculately ‘air-brushed’ personas; presumably to promote political goals. So then; whoever you are; whatever your goals; is this all the collective air-brushing outfits could come up with? Seriously> Because of her Broaches, apparently inspired to Albright? Or Alternatively because of her Armani outfits at tax-payers’ expense? I invite you to extrapolate; as you will; or else as you wont; according to your wishes

  34. Damo451

    Well said Philb, couldn’t agree more with all your comment.
    I had high hopes when we had our first female PM, but she proved to be just another dirty grub without a moral compass like the majority of politicians.
    FOAD Julia for effs ake !!!!

  35. Florence nee Fedup

    Gillard did say, if she managed to get the Malaysian Solution through, things might have turned out better,

    What is clear, the boats were stopping before Abbott became PM. expensive, cruel and maybe illegal turning back of boats unnecessary. sovereign Borders a expensive farce.

    The policy in place now, has little recognition with Houston’s recommendation, which Labor was putting in place.

    Nauru/Manus islands meant only to be stop gap until a regional plan created.

  36. Möbius Ecko

    And yet again I see so many get Gillard’s single mother policy wrong. I wish people would take the trouble to read a policy and the reasoning for it before verbatim shooting off media attack points that were wrong.

    Please take a lesson from Kaye Lee in looking up facts.

  37. Sir ScotchMistery

    Julie Farthing are you related to that union chap, Bob Halfpenny? Since we are trying to sort out our cred for Dave.

    I addressed a group of school students this week on a bill of rights, and why we should have one.

    Out of 25, 4 felt we didn’t, all okay as it goes. The rest felt we did. Of the 21, the one who spoke most eloquently, was in favour of one, so she is off interstate to discuss with other young people.

    I used the International covenant on the rights of the child to illustrate our rights as humans in Australia are not covered by the constitution, but by international instruments, and then pointed out how much our last few governments have followed the refugee convention, if we think our rights are guaranteed.

    Seemed to strike a nerve.

  38. mars08

    The ALP has had over a decade to moderate the rhetoric and defuse the hysteria surrounding asylum seekers. They have had plenty of time to attempt to shift the language of the topic. Yet they haven’t even tried. Instead, as with so many other issues, they have chosen to play by the Coalition’s rules…. and show how tough and unyielding they can be.

    And here we are…

  39. Friday

    It is great to see the poor old greenies on this site showing their skills by attacking a woman for being a politician and a bloody efficient and super greedy (abrogated the vote for payrises) one at that.
    East of Myanmar boat people are neither refugees nor asylum seekers and invoke no sympathy with the voters who see hoards of men who can cry and breast beat about death and danger for themselves yet their wives and children are home facing the danger. Men who hide behind the Rohingya tragedy. Men who have no mechanisms for cultural change.
    The shock jocks, the bolts and the sensation driven, disingenuous and ratings greedy media fill us with burqa, sharia and ‘home grown’ terrorism.
    Boat people were demonised to get Howard elected, to get gillard unelected and the worst PM elected. The topic was in the negative news constantly and is Abbutt’s raison d’être
    I believe turnturd to be every bit as dangerous as Howard.
    He will succeed in the destruction of the unions and the introduction of the American way.

  40. Damo451

    Mobius, i am one who was effected by her single parent policy and you may believe her lies about why she did it, but those of us in the real world know she did it because she is a moraless , souless, gutless coward.
    She was under pressure from Abbott about the ” budget emergency “, and she had a knee jerk reaction, and like all true cowards and non leaders, she went after savings from those who could not fight back, single mothers.
    Gillard said she was putting 100,000 single parents onto Newstart from PPS to encourage them back into the work force.
    What a crock of shit, actions speak louder than words !!!
    Single parents were already required to work or study 30 hours per fortnight and most were doing so. There were no extra support services no extra anything, just more stick and no carrot.
    The only thing that changed was the payments, a drop of $65- 135 per week.
    NOTHING else changed, i repeat that for you again, NOTHING else changed.
    In fact a recent study showed Gillards lie had no impact on more single mothers participating in the workforce and was in fact pushing them into serious poverty.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-25/nine-years-of-welfare-to-work-failed-to-increase/6804234
    I believe you and i have had this conversation before a while back and you are just as wrong now as you were then.
    Labor and Gillard attacked Howard when he first proposed this policy and implemented it and then in her usual hypocritical way did the same thing.
    Maybe it is you who should understand the facts and get off the Gillard fan wagon long enough to do so.

  41. Florence nee Fedup

    Mobius all seem to ignore that the policy was bought in by Howard. All Gillard did was remove the grandfather clause that led to two groups with identical families. You had those who qualified before new laws with children up to 16 yrs still getting money. All other lost it when kids old enough to go to school.

    Jenny Macklin has said they got that one wrong.

    Yes, Abbott did all in his power to ensure Labor was not able to bring in new policies to stop the boats. He has to take some responsibility for the outcome.

    Shorten good interview with Fran RN.

  42. Damo451

    Florence, i am one who is well aware the policy was brought in under Howard ( as reflected in my comment ) however an intelligent person with a moral compass would raise those who were effected under Howard up, not lower everyone down.
    Jenny Macklin can stick her ” we got it wrong ” where the sun doesn’t shine, it’s to late now isn’t it ??
    She still enjoys her over inflated pay packet and at the time was on a well undeserved $ 6,000 a week.

  43. corvus boreus

    Julia Gillard, as Prime Minister, proposed and enabled the outsourced, privatised incarceration facilities on Manus Island, and thus bears a heavy part of the responsibility for the neglect and abuses that have occurred there.
    When questioned by an international news agency about her own role in the mandatory detention of women and children on Manus, she avoided the question by trying to entirely pass the buck to subsequent administrations (Abbott/Turnbull).

    My respect for Ms Gillard’s undeniable achievements is much diminished by her unwillingness to take responsibility and give honest answer for some of the shadier aspects of her past political career.

  44. mars08

    corvus boreus… yes indeed

  45. Möbius Ecko

    Damo451 that was not the reason at all. Florence nee Fedup has hinted at the reason.

    I don’t agree with what Gillard did but it was a major oversight in the Howard policy, yet another one he stuffed up, that required the change.

  46. Möbius Ecko

    corvus boreus. Ditto to mars08.

  47. Sir ScotchMistery

    So here we are demonising the work of Gillard, (history), rather than working with the present and seeking a way to improve the future (mystery).

    I don’t now and won’t have the answers until after the poll, but I would like to know how many people would vote against the outrage which shows its face in Dutton, a failed Queensland drug cop, and previously that supercilious twat Morrison, in terms of OUR treatment of asylum seekers, on the simple basis of our inherent racism.

    How about putting together a platform to take to the moronic electorate, that shows they have little to fear from refugees, irrespective how they arrive, in fact what we should fear, is the current Americanisation of what was once a perfectly decent country.

    Seems to me there are a bloody lot of people don’t agree with the policy, but no one sticking up their hands for a fairer deal for someone other than those who control the strings of the LNP and Alternative Liberal Party. #30Independents

  48. philgorman2014

    “Stop The Boats” to save lives?

    A moment’s serious reflection reveals the paucity and hypocrisy of the ‘saving lives’ argument.

    In Australia people have agency and their risky decisions are generally respected, even admired, even when made for the sake of exploration, adventure or recreation. Jessica Watson, OAM, a courageous 16 year old girl circumnavigating the globe in the dire conditions of the Roaring Forties is rightly feted by Australians.

    How much more admirable it is to risk all for the sake of the family’s survival. People fleeing repression have been robbed of all but their agency to act as responsible humans. They will naturally do their best for their family’s future well-being. Desperate acts can also be heroic and noble acts involving calculated risk and sacrifice.

    How do we reward such determined and enterprising families? We subject them to internment in concentration camps designed to break them.

    It is a miserable, hypocritical and shameful act to hide our real reasons for “stopping the boats” behind a false façade of humanitarianism.

  49. Florence nee Fedup

    One needs to keep in mind what Gillard was up against in that interview. She was being attacked for the stance she has taken, in supporting education for women everywhere. Saying she was not real in her aims.

    One can say a lot about Gillard but education has always been her pet love.

    she is pushing for women to be educated in parts of the world, ruled by men who don’t agree with her.

  50. mars08

    Gillard in October, 2010…

    “I don’t think it’s the Australian way to have children behind razor wire in the hope that will act as a deterrent… This is especially important for children, for whom protracted detention can have negative impacts on their development and mental health.”

    So that all that half arsed, off-shore detention stuff turned out fine. Right? No regrets?

  51. David

    Friday well said..Turnbull’s successful strategy is clearly magnified by the attack here on Julia Gillard and Labors what they did, what they should have done, what evil bastards they/she are/were.

    Turnbull cant script it any better and here we have the intelligentsia throwing bombs at ‘his’ opponents, those departed from the scene even. No wonder he is showing 70% popularity and Shorten, who supports his bloody lock em up behind barbed wire policy, languishes in the teens.

    Have a good look at yourselves and sort out who todays enemy is. I thought better of a couple of you. It’s hard to fight an enemy who has outposts in your head.

  52. Kaye Lee

    David,

    This should have nothing to do with politics. It is wrong whoever does it. That it has been turned into a political tool is a shameful state of affairs started by Howard and ramped up to the max by Abbott as LOTO. That successive PMs have been too afraid to do what they all know is right (with the exception of the Mad Monk who couldn’t give the slightest shit beyond his own aggrandisement) just shows how every one of them is more interested in their own ambition than what is in the best interests of all concerned.

    They have let ignorant xenophobes dictate. Not a one of them has shown courage, leadership, compassion, or any intention of fulfilling our international obligations. They are too worried about poll results from bogans. Advertising people should all be shipped off to Mars. The country should not be run by focus groups of ignorant people. Where is a leader with the courage and the ability to actually lead?

  53. corvus boreus

    David,
    For me, the enemy is unscrupulous cynical politics, especially when conducted with dishonesty, in order to cater to the worst prejudicial facets of the least informed common denominators of the electorate.

    There must be honest retrospective examination of past occurrences to contextualize current reactions and future planning (learning from history), and the first step in treatment is to admit the existence of a problem.

    Given the context of Ms Gillard’s recent comments, especially as they relate to current Labor ‘asylum seeker’ policy, the topic of her prior actions regarding the treatment of asylum seekers is worthy of discussion (on this thread), even if it is not the exclusive or main focus of our attention and energies (which should be focused on those currently enabling/perpetuating current abuses).

    Ps, “Friday well said”? I suggest you try a little re-read of the post, which, whilst simultaneously slagging off both ‘greenies’ and ‘shock-jocks’, also managed to decry the demonisation of ‘boat people’, whilst at the same time unilaterally denouncing all arrivals from the Rohingya of East Myanmar (formerly Burma) as universally male and constituting neither ‘asylum seekers nor refugees’.

  54. Damo451

    Rubbish Mobius, that was exactly the reason, she even stated publicly she was doing it to get more sole parents working.
    Gillard was/is a coward with no soul or morals and only the rusted ons try to make her look anything else.
    Windsor and Oakeshott were the only shining lights of that parliament

  55. Damo451

    David today both corporations are the enemy LNP Pty Ltd and Another Liberal Party Pty Ltd are both grubby little corporate bootlicks and neither represents the people.
    As for harping on about what Gillard and co did, well a lot of us are still suffering from the mistakes those dickheads made !!

  56. Kaye Lee

    Damo,

    “She said her motivation for the change was the “grandfathered” class of women who were not on the same payments as other women because of earlier rule changes to the pension.”

  57. David

    Damos..I find no difficulty in accepting your “the mistakes those dickheads made”, all Govts make mistakes collectively. But Labor has never been the exception, which is what I happily take from your reply.
    Cheers

    Corvus…I suspect you understand the part of Friday’s post I was agreeing with. My thoughts on the treatment of Asylum Seekers have been made many many times in these columns.
    Have a nice day

  58. corvus boreus

    David,
    Suspicions and assumptions do not constitute understanding. That your praise of Friday’s self-contradictory Gish-gallop was confined to any particular statement or passage was certainly not clear to me, nor, I suspect, to others.
    Sentiments returned.

  59. mars08

    David:

    … all Govts make mistakes collectively. But Labor has never been the exception…

    “You can never make the same mistake twice. Because the second time it’s not a mistake, it’s a choice.”

    Trite and simplistic? Yep! Apropos? Of course!

  60. Friday

    Beauty Corvus as usual my words are too disjointed and difficult for the smart to read.
    But even fools know the Rhoingyans are a tragedy, not of their making and deserve all the support we can muster(a gang of gillard’s arrivals collect my coconuts and tend my garden but I pay an organiser and suspect he takes a ‘7/11’ cut.)
    The Iranian, afghani, Pakistani, Bangladeshi men are able to hide amongst those Myanmar refugees to garnish support from

    Who needs understanding when we are continually bashed with pictures of 10s/100s of thousands of men in Europe. Who needs understanding when ex coppers, devout bible bashing christians are the ‘teachers’!
    Sadly the labor party is made up of simpletons like me led by degreed nose in the air theorists willing to slash of their noses to spite their face and plagued by self righteous 10%ers.
    Mr boreus, crack open the watermelon, get honest and imagine no political party, interested in governing could ignore the hypocrisy of men paying to flee, leaving it up to god’s will to look after their wives and children at home.
    ps damo the auto correct puts damp perfect for an other option squib or to make sure your ‘wet’ words won’t burn

  61. LOVO

    For all her flaws, Julia was one of the best PM’s this country has ever had, but I agree that she, Kev and Tony should be publicly flogged and little Johnny drawn and quartered for the treatment of assylum seekers.
    One wonders what will happen when ‘Climate Change’ refugees start their inevitable journey(s)!!!! Will you or I be one of them?? Will turn-backs include scuba gear and flippers?? ….. and will there be any place for the sheep 😯

  62. mischmash1

    All that article had was one sentence from Ms Gillard, the rest was all about the writer’s opinion, who is obviously misinformed by the Greens Protest Party who USE refugees to win votes..PM Gillard asked the Libs in opposition and the Greens to stop using refugees politically and form a united refugee forum in parliament including talks with our regional partners to form a humane refugee policy..Milne was seen whispering in Morriscums ear outside in the hallway..then walked back in and stood with the human rights abusers to say NO. Like their mates the LNP the Greens need to USE desperate refugees to win votes.

  63. Damo451

    Sorry Kaye Lee but i followed what the grub did very very closely and she definitely did try to flog it off by saying it was to encourage more workforce participation.
    This was the second attack by her right wing party on sole-parents, they had already passed the loss of PPS when the youngest turns 12 prior to this.
    However i do concede she also tried to justify her cowardice with the line you posted as well.
    What sort of nasty thing tries to even up a playing field her and her colleagues were against, during the Howard era, by lowering more people down into poverty rather than raising the others up.

  64. jimhaz

    I can’t say that I would have done much different to what Gillard did. In fact I would have done what she did earlier. One thing I would not have done though is outsourced the running of the centres. I’d also have some form of time limit on offshore detention (with conditions)
    Not sure what education is offered, but perhaps some training/retraining and work programs so that they could become more attractive as migrants might be possible. Policies would be adjusted dependent on the trends in terms of boat arrivals – the more boats the harder the deterrent policies to kill off the smuggler business as much as possible, the fewer boats the more gentle and caring the policies would become.

    All atheists would immediately be given visas 🙂

  65. Damo451

    Friday do understand the English language, or even grammar, or was your flowery rubbish supposed to make sense to me.

  66. corvus boreus

    Jimhaz,
    Agree and disagree.
    Desire for systemic transparency and accountability makes me wary of offshore (foreign nation) processing/detention.
    Offering education and training for those detained whilst seeking asylum would also mean having valuable learning skills available for needy societies upon repatriation/’refoulement’, for those whose asylum claims have been rejected.
    Personally, my values mean I would also prefer to see refuge prioritised along the lines of lifeboats (children first, then women, and lastly men), and my own views/prejudices would favour offering refuge to secularists before sectarians.

  67. Jeffrey

    Don’t call her a grub you jerkoff.
    She is a good aussie chick doing her best for this country, all whilst being surrounded by professional jerkoffs…..
    And I use the term professional as opposed to an amateur, like yourself.

  68. Kaye Lee

    Jeffrey,

    Do you see any irony in saying “don’t call her a grub you jerkoff”? It reminds me of that Billy Connelly skit where he talks about his mother belting the crap out of him for hitting his sister.

  69. Rossleigh

    People don’t see irony anymore.
    I’m not sure whether to blame Abbott or Alanis Morrisette for that song.

  70. Rossleigh

    Oh shit, she’s updated it and it still has no actual examples of irony!

  71. Jeffrey

    Did Julia Gillard call him a jerkoff?
    Prob not.

    So if he feels that he has a right to call her a grub after the way she was treated for so long, by so many.
    I am more than willing to point out, that he is jerkoff.

  72. Jeffrey

    Ms Gillard is a Lady. A lady that was our Prime Minister.

    And when her heal got caught in the grass, and the mob laughed.
    It was proof this nation had taken a turn towards disaster.

    Choose a different word. Calling her a grub is unacceptable!

  73. Kaye Lee

    I agree. I dislike name-calling but am guilty of it as well. If the bullying of Julia Gillard taught us anything, it should be that we ALL need to lift our game.

  74. mars08

    Thank you for your remarks Jeffrey… But I think I will continue to use any language I want to describe powerful privileged, protected public figures who make decisions which cause harm to others. If the moderators on this forum think that I have gone too far, I assume they will let me know,

    In the meantime, I’m not going to take notice of what you deem acceptable or unacceptable comments. And surely you aren’t accusing anyone here of making childish jokes about when Gillard slipped on the grass? So don’t stir that into your steaming pot of indignation.

    Now, let me use Gillard’s own words to express what I think is truly unacceptable in this country.

    “I don’t think it’s the Australian way to have children behind razor wire in the hope that will act as a deterrent… This is especially important for children, for whom protracted detention can have negative impacts on their development and mental health.”

    Okay… how does that statement compare to a few nasty words and some giggles from the clueless odious msm fools and their repulsive right-wing mates?

  75. David

    It is time this thread was put to bed. We have made our points and whatever our individual opinions, we are now losing track of the important thread, ridding the country of this evil regime under Turnbull.

  76. mars08

    Oh David. Your argument is very direct…. but it rings hollow… What’s the point of “ridding the country of this evil regime under Turnbull” when the other mob has so many of the same flaws…. and shows no inclination to address them….?

  77. David

    mars when will it be possible for you to to let sleeping dogs lie and move on. Or is your loathing of Labor so intense you will ride a dead horse into the ground. Your points have been taken and frankly in my eyes you are now being absurd and immature. Move on. Tell me why the signing of the Trans Pacific Partnership is so vehemently opposed by the Greens!!

  78. mars08

    What? My loathing of Labor? Minor compared to my revulsion at anything associated with the Coalition.

    So… you want me (and others on this site) to move on… and not ride a sleeping dog into the ground? Well…. that would be so much easier if we saw some contrition from the ALP… or even a hint that they were considering a change of direction. While the party keeps marching in it’s current direction… I will keep promoting the “absurd”. A man can dream, right?

  79. David

    mars…your words not mine “a man can dream right” dream on friend, dream on.
    I’m out of this one.

  80. Jeffrey

    It’s not about childish jokes.
    It is about the mob mentality, that led to abbott gaining the prime ministers office. I shouldn’t have to mention the rest of the media BS. Unless you dare?

    Use whatever language you want. But if I consider it offensive, or more to the point, undeserved and riles me enough to bother, I’d be more than happy to point you out as jerkoff.

  81. Roswell

    If the bullying of Julia Gillard taught us anything, it should be that we ALL need to lift our game.

    So true, Kaye. Me included.

  82. Damo451

    Ah Jeffrey, when it all comes down to it, just a simple minded man who happens to be delusional when it comes to Gillard.
    Ah well, even the not very bright have to have their pin up girl.
    And you Jeffrey are the jerkoff i’m sure.
    Good night little one

  83. Jeffrey

    It is morning, dumb as!

  84. mars08

    @Damo451… calling Jeffrey “delusional” is totally is unacceptable! You nasty boy!

    He can have a pinup girl if he feels the need. Not so impressed with his choice though…

    In 2012, under Julia Gillard:

    ‘Young-looking’ refugees sent offshore
    31 Jul 2014 – 6:04 PM

    Young-looking children were chosen to be transferred to the harsh Manus Island refugee detention centre to discourage other refugees from coming to Australia, an inquiry has heard.

    And children detained in facilities on Nauru are suffering illnesses and mental conditions caused by unsanitary and inhospitable conditions on the island nation while all refugees are subjected to a broad “intention to dehumanise”.

    Former officials, charity workers and doctors who worked in the immigration system have given at times distressing evidence to an Australian Human Rights Commission (AHRC) inquiry into the fate of children caught in Australia’s detention centres.

    Gregory Lake, the former director of offshore processing and transfers at the Department of Immigration and Border Protection, told the inquiry he was directed by a ministerial staff member to choose the youngest-looking children from among those eligible for the first transfer of detained people from Australia to Manus Island in 2012, when Labor was in government.

    “Because they wanted to send a deterrent message, it was important to send some children, to say that children are not exempt from transfer,” Mr Lake said…

    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/07/31/young-looking-refugees-sent-offshore

  85. Florence nee Fedup

    I am going to put many off side here, but promoting policy that encourages single parent back into the workforce is good for whole family.

    Being on benefits does harm family. Getting young single mothers back into education system, then to work is essential.

    Same for older mothers.

    Yes it can be hard. That is why any government has to ensure there is the support available to give mothers the best education or training possible. Appropriate childcare has to be part of the deal.Yes, I was unmarried mother way back when wages were low. Support none existent. Later, after marrying, with now four kids found myself on alone again, with no work skills.

    I was lucky enough to be able to return university at 40. Yes, it was hard but it gave me back my self respect and ability to earn a better income for myself and kids.

    I at no time, seen remaining on the pension an option.

    No action is never black and white. With Gillard, there is one thing I believe. She strongly believes the way to independence especially for women, is education.

    In hindsight more thought should have been given to removing the grandfather clause.

  86. Jeffrey

    Yeah. You continue to attribute beliefs or behaviour that are erroneous.

    The point you missed, is the proposed changes to media ownership laws, on the back of News of the world and the US event. Which probably occurred at the time of drafting murdoch resources in to the syria quagmire.

    Hence the attacks, followed by the crabbit. I never said she was perfect. I dont consider her as exploitation material.

    And if that is the best you can do to try to discredit or shame me, go and and sippe your latte and then try again.

  87. Philb

    Florence Nee Fedup….Are you for real? You can’t make this stuff up.. ” So being on benefits does family harm” As against what? Starving to death, being evicted from your home, being forced to sleep with your children in a motor vehicle. Visiting the Salvation Army soup kitchen when you wake up from your night’s sleep in the park.

    The real kicker is the bit about getting back into the work force. And where prey tell is, this work force you speak about? They are at this current moment in time, laying off people in the work force left right and centre in their thousands . Unemployment for school leavers where I live is 40% The mining boom is over and the consequences of that in Perth alone is seeing thousands of homes come on the market before banks foreclose on their mortgage’s . Thrift shops are opening by the dozen where I live and food banks are doing a roaring trade. There are no jobs, next time you do your shopping have a look the check outs they are even getting rid of the kids operating these. Automating everything. My son tells me who works in the North West of W.A. the ore trains will soon be driverless.

    Gillard was no friend of the working class, all this bollocks about empowering women and education leading to their independence was just feel good politics, driven by her feminist over load. All this while she took their pensions off them by stealth. I know for a fact, I’ll run that by you again in case you missed it a FACT she voted against the old age pension in the caucus.

    There is a bad recession coming and the current government know it. They are trying if they can get away with it, to dismantle the social welfare system as we know it. This I might add being aided and abetted by the current opposition. It has taken over a hundred years to get the benefits we all enjoy and its people like you who think they know what’s best helping to destroy it.

    Me off side, that ain’t the half of it.

  88. Florence nee Fedup

    No, I never make stuff up. I am serious about what I say. Everyone else is entitled to their own beliefs.

    I am not even going to add to what I have said, except I say what I have from life experience, from university study and working in welfare. It is my belief that has been backed up by results I have seen.

    Saying that, I agree Gillard could have handled the matter better. Yes, it was also done, because Labor was stupid enough to swallow the fallacy that political fortunes of Labor depended on getting budget back to surplus.

    What I am perplexed about, is this attack of Gillard at this time. Why?

    I will also add, Labor didn’t make any decisions in the long run about refugees until forced to do what they didn’t agree with.

    Yes, too many were coming. Yes, as Gillard and others said, too many were drowning.

    Go back and have a look at the Houston recommendations. They didn’t support turning back boats. Nothing about Sovereign Borders. Didn’t support bringing back TPVs.

    It seen Nauru and Manus Island as a stop gap measure until regional solutions werre put in place.

    Yes, Gillard had children on the island but they were process quickly and taken to the mainland.

    They were not left there for over 15 months, to be used as a lever by Morrison to get his unnecessary TPV. I still have no idea what their goal are with those visas. I suspect he hoped to return all to their homelands at first opportunity. Owing to the wars in the Middle East spreading, that is an unlikely to happen. People struck on temporary visas with their restrictions for decades doesn’t make sense. Well nothing does with this government.

    It is not like Gillard didn’t attempt to put humane policies in place. She was thwarted at every turn.

    No Gillard was not perfect. Made mistakes as most humans do.

    Once again, the best option for single parent families is to have the parent in well paying jobs, Best for parent best for children. To do this, they must have support to compensate for the missing parent.

    PS If one wants to attack the government, it is how the unemployed are treated. Terribly wrong.

    I was only talking about what I believe to be best for single parent families. It is not welfare.

  89. Damo451

    You are missing the point Florence, single parents were already required to enter the workforce or study NONE of that changed, what did however was the reduction in money.
    You may have a point if it included the requirement of more working hours etc but the only thing that changed was the money side.
    You really don’t understand the issue very well judging by your comments, obviously you have no idea what you are talking about at all.

  90. Damo451

    Jeffrey the keyboard warrior with the big mouth.
    I doubt you would say that to my face if we met in person.
    Oh and the ” goodnight comment ” was sarcasm,sorry you were not bright enough to pick up on that.
    Now off you go back to the sandpit and stop eating the crayons.

  91. PhllB

    Oh Florence you went to university? I’m really impressed that makes you much better qualified to comment than anyone else I don’t think. In your case I suggest in your case, ask for your money back, it was wasted. As Damo451 pointed out you haven’t a clue, not a clue.

    Here’s a hot flash for you, I’ve been on the planet for 65 years I have worked in that time in various occupations, as a law enforcement officer and soldier just being two of them., I have seen things you couldn’t begin to understand. So spare us mere mortals the, I’ve been to university routine, it’s is trite as it is condescending.

    You can waffle on or you like about Gillard. She ruined the Labor party and is responsible for giving us the most rancid right wing reactionary government to come down the pike. Yes she may be a hit around the office water coolers where the reality’s of life are about as real as the Wizard of Oz. Gillard for mine should be heard in silence, she has nothing to add to the political discourse in this country. I suggest she take a long holiday to the North Pole and take that half wit Shorten with her.

  92. mars08

    “It is not like Gillard didn’t attempt to put humane policies in place. She was thwarted at every turn.”

    Interesting word “attempt”. So malleable, so lightweight…

  93. Kaye Lee

    The vitriole shown by some on this thread is disgraceful, particularly towards each other. Both major parties should hang their heads in shame for their treatment of those who came to us seeking help.

  94. Jeffrey

    Ok sorry Damo.
    I didnt consider that you still be so upset for so long.

    I’ve often spoken up on behalf of others, and don’t usually back down when doing so.

    Maybe you could also improve your communication skills.

    If anyone wants to offer valid criticisms of me, do it direct and I’ll give back the same, and then it is sorted.

  95. Roswell

    Agreed, Kaye. Some disappointing language. Some comments had been deleted. Others were borderline.

  96. Florence nee Fedup

    I understand the issue very well. Have said it wasn’t well handled. I have heard no concern for those who become single parents after Howard’s legislation came in. They had to return to work or be put on New start when their children reached school age.

  97. Florence nee Fedup

    Sorry Roswell, I knew I would stir some feathers when I wrote my comment. As far as I am concern, all are entitled to their own opinion.

    Maybe they are right, but I would like to say, I have lead far from a sheltered life.

    I won’t be making anymore comments.

  98. Jeffrey

    Well the object of this forum is to ‘cut the crap’. Mostly the crap spewed by msm and lnp.

    I note in another thread the mars bloke makes a comment on ‘potential employment’. Three post of people asking if he was serious or sarcastic. He eventually replies sarcastic.
    The truth is, it was a subversive dig. Have the courage to say what you mean.

    Im not as stupid as you’d like me to be.

  99. Roswell

    Florence, I can’t see where you’ve done or said anything wrong. Quite the opposite – your comments are always valued by most people here. Don’t let the critics gets on top of you.

  100. PhllB

    It’s not nothing to do with being a critic. It is a difference of opinion is all. It warms the cockles of my heart knowing most people are on our side. That by the way is not an opinion but a sad reality. Gillard is detested by most rank and file members of the Labor party. I know their voices were heard at the meetings I attended. Shorten is going to prolong the agony of another three years of Turnbull., also made quite plain by members of the party. These right wingers have killed the party my family and I have supported for fifty years. A simple concept really.
    .

  101. Florence nee Fedup

    Don’t worry Roswell, all are entitled to their opinions. Personal attacks are like water off a duck’s back.

    It amazes me, Gillard as one woman could have done so much harm to the country, party and government.

    A woman who has nearly full support of the caucus when she took over from Rudd. A woman who managed to form government, in spite of the narrow poll result. A woman whose government, in spite of minorities in both houses ran full term.

    A government that was under continuous attack from the worse Opposition leader who was intent on destroying her and the government. An Opposition that said no to all.

    Within the party, she was under continuous undermining from Rudd.

    I just don’t understand the attack on her at this time.

    Maybe many do support the neoliberalism of Turnbull government. They must. No other explanation makes sense.

    This is just my humble opinion. They have as much right to voice alternate opinions.

    What they need to keep in mind, this is a new age. What worked 50 years ago, will not today/

    Finally, politics is only the art of the possible.

  102. Pat Assheton

    It beats the hell out of me, how the argument prosecuted by the Gillard, Abbott Turnbull team turns on justifying “saving lives from drowning” when our Government actually turns boats back out to sea, into harms way. Can somebody PLEASE explain this to me? Aren’t we knowingly and callously deliberately placing them back in danger when they had almost reached safety, when we turn them back out to face the unknown, and place them once again at risk? I really want to know, what has happened to all the people who have been turned back, Where are they all now, how many has Australia done this to, did they make landfall, are they safe, did pirates get them, were any hit by other boats, did boats sink, how many died of disease, thirst or starvation, and how many drowned as a result of our actions? If as a country we wilfully and cruelly turn men women and children seeking asylum away from sanctuary to again face untold terrors and the risk of death at sea, do we not at least have a duty of care to ensure we keep track of how they fare, and to ensure their safety?

  103. paul walter

    No rose coloured glasses, that was Gillard at her worst.

    Other things she did better at as PM.

    I commend Michael Taylor on his early comment, that is so true, that precisely sums up my reading and feelings concerning Abbott’s bloody minded obstructionism. But I sympathise with the activists viewpoint that the Asylum Seeker issue has shown up some ugly Australian traits re closed mindedness, sookiness, laziness and even sheer stupidity both within the ALP, which has refused internal reform and remained very conservative on ideological issues during the Abbott Turnbull era- and society as a whole.

    In so many ways John Howard was the real culprit, but seems to escaped unscathed here.

    Also, the last ten or fifteen years have taught me just how powerless we have become in a Globalised world. Parliament and the political parties have become shopfronts for alien interests, string-pullers behind the scenes who have agendas contrary to the country and the public’s interests, as Pat Ashenden’s comment illustrates.

    They are possibly the ones who also started the refugee trails through being largely responsible for the horrible African and Mid East resource wars that have been so wasteful and counterproductive, including to the West itself.

  104. mars08

    FnF:

    I just don’t understand the attack on her at this time.

    Maybe many do support the neoliberalism of Turnbull government. They must. No other explanation makes sense…

    That’s an odd strange thing to take from those comments. Seems to me that the people making the comments in this discussion (and others) are actually lamenting the relentless march of Labor toward neoliberalism. The “attack” on Gillard “at this time” is simply a reaction to her hypocrisy…. in relation to her political party’s policies and actions.

    Can we please put the ‘victim’ card back to the bottom of the deck?

  105. Kaye Lee

    Despite the backroom drama, I think the previous Labor government under both Rudd and Gillard did well on most things but I cannot condone the politicisation of refugees. Having said that, Abbott was not going to allow them to find any sort of a solution. As has been mentioned, the more deaths the better for Tony, and with a hung parliament he was determined to block any progress. When can we realise that the madman is gone and get back to some sanity?

  106. Florence nee Fedup

    There are many aboard that appear to be claiming to be victims of Gillard’s rule. I failed to see what evidence there is for the hypocrisy many claim.

    There is one area I would criticise the Labor government for, but rarely heard it done. That is not dismantling the Intervention of Bough and Howard. Maybe the truth is that hypocrisy should be laid at the feet of Rudd.

    I think I understand where many are coming from, but I can’t agree.

    All the good did by that government under both Rudd and Gillard is being completely ignored.

    Full pensioners never had it so good. This government is quickly reversing the good work done.

    Schools improved under her stewardship. So did many other things.

    Please remember we live in a globalised world where governments have less means to control anything. The old methods and conventions will not work.

    Agree Paul, much can be traced back to Howard.

    No I don’t understand what good will come of attacking Gillard now. Won’t change a thing. Is a lovely diversion for Turnbull bring in his neoliberal agenda. Yes, that is what we should be focusing on, not attacking one another.

  107. Florence nee Fedup

    The madman hasn’t gone. He has two extensive papers out today. One on adoption. We also have Rudd back, popping up everywhere. Not sure of his agenda, but he is putting boot into Labor. Good words for Turnbull. (Rudd and Bishop are great mates)

  108. mars08

    @Kaye Lee… I really sympathise with your statement… “…When can we realise that the madman is gone and get back to some sanity?”

    However I can’t ignore my frustration at Labor’s attitude to asylum seekers while in opposition. They have done nothing to moderate the rhetoric or defuse the hysteria surrounding the topic. They have continued down the path that Gillard set…. despite the increasing cruelty and abuse of those in detention. Officially, Labor has not show the slightest hint of a more humane direction. With asylum seekers, as with other subjects they are perpetuating the insanity.

    I suggest that your comment should be directed to the ALP…

  109. paul walter

    Careful, mars08 – people will think you are being selective in who you blame.

    You know most here agree with your basic thrust, I beleive including Flo on many points, but some think you miss certain complicating factors involved and feel that Gillard, though an easy symbolic target, can be one of only many throughout politics who require askance of things said and done in the past.

    Getting back to the here and now, how do you think Peter Dutton is travelling?

  110. Möbius Ecko

    Pat Assheton @ 4:21 am

    Aren’t we knowingly and callously deliberately placing them back in danger when they had almost reached safety, when we turn them back out to face the unknown, and place them once again at risk?

    The justification is that before the boats are turned back they are supposedly checked for sea worthiness, repaired if necessary or replaced with a lifeboat, then enough fuel, water and food is supplied to get them back to the nearest Indonesian land but no further.

    We don’t know the success or otherwise of this as it’s all shrouded in secrecy. We do know that the (expensive) lifeboats have been found washed up on Indonesian shores in remote places. As to the fate of those who were on board?

  111. Kaye Lee

    Oh don’t worry mars08. I have very clearly expressed my anger and frustration to many Labor politicians by email and phone calls. I wish everyone would ring them continually. Hound them. Badger them. Don’t give up. Ring their local office. Ring their Canberra office. Write emails and cc them to others. I have also written to Malcolm. I know the pollies never read any of them but when the volume of complaints gets sufficient I do think at least they start to think about the electoral ramifications.

    Next year we need to ramp up the protests again. Hit the streets and get some publicity. People are becoming more aware of the atrocities committed in our name and I cannot accept that Reclaim Australia represents the majority view.

  112. mars08

    @Kaye Lee…

    Two guys are in the jungle when they see a tiger sneaking towards them.

    One mans freezes, staring at the tiger and whispers… “what are we going to do?”

    When there is no answer, he glances at the other man and sees that he is frantically putting on some running shoes.

    Stunned, he says ” What are you thinking? You can’t outrun a tiger!!!”

    “I don’t have to outrun the tiger,” comes the reply, “I just have to outrun you.”

  113. mars08

    Kaye Lee:

    …People are becoming more aware of the atrocities committed in our name and I cannot accept that Reclaim Australia represents the majority view

    It’s not the raw numbers of Reclaim Australia supporters that matters to the major parties, it’s the electorate in which they live.

  114. paul walter

    Reclaim Australia are handy to have out at demos, so the media can confect more slanted beatups anyway.

  115. Florence nee Fedup

    ME, I believe all those orange boats were used. Then they bought more cheaper models. Why”

    Flo does agree with much. Just saying Gillard is not the devil incarnate and criticism needs to be put in context. I don’t believe she supported turning back boats or TPV.

    Maybe the bridging visas were crueler, but could be converted to permanent visas at any time.

    We seemed to have both Abbott and Rudd working in unison to bring both government and Opposition down.

    Maybe just coincidence but my gut feeling is it is not.

    We now have TURC daily releasing tasty titbits that was not covered in open hearings.

    Tried this in final days of hearings but was pulled into line by the witnesses solicitors. They objected to new evidence being introduced where they had no chance to cross examine. I suspect this will go until end December when final findings will be handed to government.

  116. diannaart

    Julia Gillard made mistakes, Labor often makes mistakes (and if Bill doesn’t start seeing the forest I’ll include him with the following); the LNP do harm, or, with its inherent biblical gravitas, ultraconservatives do evil.

    @Florence nee Fedup

    After watching Rudd’s incomprehensible attempt to proclaim his staggering IQ on The Project the other night, I agree Rudd is on a mission to destroy anything he wants to.

  117. mars08

    @diannaart…. what’s that saying about making the SAME mistakes over and over again?

  118. Matthew Oborne

    Under Labor there were two medical review boards and healthcare was not reduced to the point where doctors said they could be barred from practice working with the detainees.

    While Tony Abbott and his ministers were on the radio talking about free houses, free white goods, huge weekly payments how easy it was to get here, they knew they were helping create the influx of people risking their lives coming on boats while at the same time slamming the government.

    I remember one poll where 60 percent of the respondents thought we needed to be harsher with refugees, my heart sank.

    If Julia had opened centres in Indonesia to bring refugees here the manic Tony Abbott would have made a case that she is showing she has no way to deal with this issue.

    Had we sent boats he would have said we have become the people smugglers,

    Politically they were toxic times in politics which were driven by the far right.

    We know several groups were actively trying to whip up hatred towards Julia Gillard.

    They were difficult times and I am feel the convoy would have been a lynch mob had Labor not continued with the bad policy towards refugees.

    Racial abuse towards Muslims and indian students increased during this time.

    We had experienced the Cronulla riots years before when racism wasnt as charged as it had become.

    most posters here are furious that detention of asylum seekers continues and is getting worse as time passes, this form of barely cloaked racism has cost lives just as racism always costs lives.

    I assume Julia was aware of many factors that we might not fully appreciate.

    in 2013 I realised trying to soften asylum seeker policy would cost them government, and then the Liberals would as they have engage in far harsher policy.

    This isnt a defense of Julia because we see for ourselves that The Liberals have indeed made life perilous for asylum seekers.

    Under Labor processing times for refugees were getting shorter and suicide attempts were decreasing the situation was improving.

    I blame us as well, poll after poll showed australians supported this and one poll showed we wanted it tougher.

    The great moral challenge of our time for us is to end this, to undo the stupid terror laws, bikie laws and understand that humans have rights that we cant just suspend for votes.

    We shouldnt forget Tony Abbott was acting more like Andrew Bolt than Andrew Bolt was, finding ways to oppose and condemn everything Labor including the NDIS which it condemned in the senate as a good idea but Labor wouldnt be able to do it so Liberal support was conditional.

  119. Florence nee Fedup

    Thanks Mathew for attempting to put the actions of Gillard in context. Many seem to forget, whatever Gillard tried was vetoed not only Abbott but the Greens.

    Yes, they were clearing the backlog as quickly as it was able. They didn’t cease processing for over a year, using children as bargaining chips in getting TPV legislated. Labor didn’t focus on TPV or turning boats back. Were still working at getting regional solution, with the aim of resettling those on Manus and Nauru.

    All Abbott was interested in, was turning back boats. Wasn’t interested in processing or resettling the people.

    Yes, much time and effort went into Soverign Borders, later Border Force. In the process, politicising defence.

    Yes, what Labor did was far from perfect, but not based on cruelty as main part of so called border control.

    Credit shouldn’t go to Abbott for stopping the boats. In fact, he is responsible for the flow not being being slowed down much earlier. When you block government legislation, you have to take responsibility for results of that action.

  120. Matthew Oborne

    I felt someone needed to, none of us agree with this situation but it was far more complicated.

  121. diannaart

    mars08

    Oh I knoooow – Labor keeps on repeating – definitely in need of a good intestinal cleansing which is why I have not voted for them in over 20 years now – idiotically I still cling to the belief that they remain less worse than the LNP and will one day return to thinking up policies that actually help people – which Gillard did manage a few (except not for refugees!!) – only to be shat upon by Abbott.

    I have stated before, many times, here and elsewhere, I will not even consider voting for Labor until they get off this fascist treatment of refugees – coz if they do that to the absolute least powerful, what will they do to Aussies who are elderly, disabled, low-income, not white and so on?

    However, Gillard was and is the least of our problems. We should learn from her mistakes which is all Einstein intended instead of perpetual farting – but since the Rudd-rerun and Abbott the Destroyer we have a worse situation than when Gillard bravely negotiated a Labor federal government – I see something like this in our near future:

    http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/548f1916dd0895e4138b45bf/a-giant-nasty-fatberg-threatens-to-clog-londons-sewers-this-christmas.jpg

    A fat-berg of lies bringing life, the universe and everything to a standstill.

  122. jim

    Yea That cruel bloody Gillard hate hate helping all those kids get an education she should be place in a chaff bag and dumped outside Jones office the witch, it rhymes with Bitch LOL. Now Tony Abbott theres a fine human being .

  123. guest

    Gillard tried to find an alternative to the Howard “Pacific Solution”. She was blocked by other nationals rejecting any approach for a regional solution. Even the Malaysia solution was legally blocked. (The Coalition’s Cambodia solution, however, was ‘fine’.) Meanwhile the electorate had been whipped into a frenzy by the MSM and the shock jocks. Remember them? The electorate demanded that the “illegals” be denied access to Oz. That is why Rudd said that if so many from the Pacific Solution eventually went to Oz or NZ, and the electorate did not want them, then let us say they will never reach Oz. Abbott seized the idea with glee. And so it continues even to this day. A secret “Sovereign Borders” policy run by the Navy.

    With regard to Gillard and education, she was instrumental in aiding the completion of a National Curriculum which even the Right wing was demanding. That is, a clear “road map” for teachers to guide their teaching and student learning. But as the National Curriculum unfolded, the Right wing cry was: No! Not this National Curriculum! This is just a top-down power play by Canberra.

    Another Right wing demand was for testing students to see how students were progressing. The US education system had Klein making great claims in NY with a testing and rating system which decided funding. Bush had his “No Child Left Behind” program. As time went on the faults of these two systems became apparent. Gillard’s resulting NAPLAN was intended to find where the needs were, just as Gonski has tried to introduce. Instead NAPLAN has degenerated into a “leagues table” and Gonski has been declared unaffordable by the education genii of the Right.

    I cannot comment on the single parent controversy, but it seems it was at a time when the idea that “Work for the Dole” was in vogue and recipients were supposed to be learning or working. Much like the idea of “lifters and leaners” so prevalent today. Anyone not working (despite there being no jobs) and anyone who is poor (lazy and not trying) is to be horse-whipped.

    What we see by all this is the way governments are wedged by prevailing demands. We see this in the way Labor has been pilloried for supporting the Coalition on immigrants, border patrols and security, spending on military devices, etc. Which political Party is able to say they reject policies protecting our borders, or security measures to keep data about all of us, or spending on heaps of military gear which could be obsolete in 35 years time…?

    You can see the present attitude to the NG decision to declare Manus to be unconstitutional and illegal. Nothing changes, says Dutton.

    The attitude is, we reject UNHCR criticisms. We unilaterally declare refugees coming by boat to be “illegal”. “We decide who comes to Oz and the means by which they come.”

    And a high percentage of the population agrees with those sentiments. Any alternatives are seen to be inviting a flood of “illegals” and terrorists.

  124. diannaart

    Well stated.

    How to untangle the mess created by neo-cons? Another dilemma for the 21st C – much of what needs to be done starts with cooperation, collaboration and communication based around facts – all of which is anathema for so-called conservatives.

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