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Keep lying, Tony Abbott

The hypocrisy of the Abbott adulators is apparent in their fervour to go on and on about a single lie that wasn’t a lie whilst ignoring major lie after major lie from Tony Abbott.

If telling the truth for the leader of the country is so important to them why are they so ardently adulating Tony Abbott who avidly prevaricates on major issues of importance in just about every instance. This is his latest effort:

Abbott stated that since Rudd took office, “Over 48,000 people have arrived on almost 800 illegal boats”

Where did he get that figure from?

According to data provided by the Australian Parliament, the number of refugees arriving by boat between 1976 and 2012 was 31,654. And not withstanding, they aren’t illegal as he and Morrison keep stating even after they are pulled up on it and accede that point.

Abbott then went on to say that since 2008, “more than 1000 people have perished at sea.”

Yet another figure plucked out of thin air.

No official records are kept by any government agency as to how many people trying to reach our shores to seek asylum are dying en route. The most reliable open source data is kept by the Monash Australian Border Deaths Database which “maintains a record of all known deaths associated with Australia’s borders since 1 January 2000”.

According to the data, during Howard’s Pacific Solution there were 746 reported deaths.
363 died at sea.
350 were presumed dead at sea (listed as missing at sea)
22 died in detention, most suicide.
11 returned to country of origin were murdered on their return.

Between 2008 and July 2013:
877 have reportedly died.
15 died of natural causes or suicide in detention.
862 died trying to reach Australia’s mainland.

Keep lying, Tony Abbott. We love it when we we catch you out.

Now if only the mainstream media could also catch on.

Thanks to contributors Mobius Echo and Lulu Respall-Turner for providing the information and dialogue to this post.

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  1. archiearchive FCD

    He learned his lessons well from Peter Reith.

  2. Ken Atkinson

    The trouble is Michael that the MSM are well aware of the lies and that they are complicit in spreading them. That’s it in a nutshell! This is why the role of the 5th estate is critical in keeping the bastards honest!!

  3. Colin Thai

    Ok they are born liars- Abbott-REITH -and all the team, I go back in time and recall the drama on our docks in the late 90s , so many lies about the training of ex military personnel training in Dubhai to take over the waterfront !!!!. I’ve never seen a man REITH and his Prime minister Howard duck and weave when asked about the situation, it’s the same now with the boats situation. We the people who are alarmed at the way the MEDIA (so called) is trying to run the way this country will go. CAN STOP THIS. LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD, thanking you …….

  4. Fed up

    Michael, I am beginning to suspect, they believe their lies when it come as to the economy and asylum seekers. That in MHO is more frightening.

  5. richo

    I knew those figures were rubbery. I was not sure how rubbery. Thanks for the info. Lets shout the truth.
    As the good book says – The Truth Shall Set You Free!

  6. Lotharsson

    This dynamic significantly helped George W get elected the first time. He projected frequent lying (mostly about trivial matters) onto Gore with the aid of a supine press which wasn’t interested in pointing out that most of those projections weren’t accurate or even particularly relevant. The very same press ignored Bush’s own lies, including (IIRC) a couple of whoppers that were directly relevant to the election.

    The conservatives in the US learned from this that (a) projecting lies onto your opponents works, and (b) lying works (since the press rarely call it out), and have made both a routine part of their practice. Romney and Ryan got an almost free pass from the press during the most recent election cycle for lying their faces off. I reckon Biden’s incredulous reaction to Ryan during that debate was a critical moment as it became news, which brought the topic of Ryan’s habitual dishonesty into the discourse.

    I note that Australian politics often seems to follow US dynamics but usually a decade or two later, and Abbott had disturbed me the last few years for engaging in blatant projection much like George W did (and the Republicans do practically every day).

  7. lotharsson

    BTW, the other US conservative tactic is to scaremonger and portray everything as a practically existential threat (usually by lying, or at least blatant misrepresentation).

    Along those lines one might add “budget emergency” to Abbott’s roster of recent lies, quite apart from all that carbon “tax” scaremongering.

  8. Wayne

    Listen Micheal Taylor, Tony Abbot got that from the fact that your dumb alp government weakened our border protection laws and allowed people in on boats with hardly any health or criminal checks at all.

  9. C@tmomma

    Speaking of low-altitude flyers, I think you’ve attracted one.

  10. Rob

    Wayne, are you saying that the years asylum seekers spend on Christmas Island or other detention centres undergoing rigorous health and background checks, not only by DoI and DFAT but also ASIO, are fabrications? If so then why is Abbott carrying on about the overcrowding in detention centres? How about the hundreds of asylum seekers awaiting deportation after faling the security checks that we don’t have? You can’t have it both ways! Say hi to Tony for us at the next party meeting.

  11. Tanya

    You quote the ‘known official’ figure of those who died at sea since Rudd dismantled the Pacific Solution, at 862 – not the estimated 1,000 that Abbott states.

    Two problems with that argument:

    (1) What does it matter if it’s 862 or 1,000 deaths? Is 862 deaths acceptable as this website implies?

    (2) 862 are documented as the official number known to have died trying to reach Australia’s mainland. Then there are those who sunk to the bottom of the ocean trying to get to Australia and vanished without a trace. That figure is estimated to be over 400 (making it well over Abbott’s number). But those people don’t matter when writing an article in a race to the bottom of the barrel.

    A little sensitivity please when taking the high moral ground.

  12. Not a Sucker for Economic refugees and thinly disguised Marxism

    So, answer me this you assorted Leftards, how many deaths do you consider acceptable? 1, 2, 100, 1000?? Go on, put a figure on it you hypocrites.

    I can guarantee you this, zero boats leaving equals zero loss of life. But I suspect your brains are unfamiliar with logic.

    Tanya has it right (July 27, 2013)

  13. Min

    Not a Sucker, how many deaths would you find acceptable from Abbott’s brain fart idea of turning back the boats? How many Australian service personnel might die trying to attempt this? Hey Gung-ho Macho man, let’s just shoot’em out of the water…

  14. Min

    I should add, such is this contradiction – the right wingers cry tears of blood over lives lost *because of* Rudd’s asylum seeker policy, while simultaneously supporting acts of piracy aka Tony Abbott’s idea which seems to include shooting unarmed civilians.

  15. A Sucker for Economic refugees and extremely Thickly veiled Marxism.

    Of course, since refugees barely have access to food, housing and education, it’s not likely they’re going to be up to date on Australian squabbling laws over how we’re trying to ignore our humanitarian responsibilities. So the variance in numbers is merely a draw of focus for domestic politics.

    Learn more about your own silliness? Less wrong (dot) com.

  16. Wayne

    Listen sucker if these people applied for refugee status properly, then they would know all about our laws,

  17. Möbius Ecko

    “That figure is estimated to be over 400”

    Tanya can you give us the source for that as the number 862 includes missing at sea?

    And what of the 746 who died under Howard? I find it imperious of the right that they had no sympathy at the plight of the asylum seekers during Howard’s era, and most were openly supporting his marginalisation and denigration of them at the time, but those same refugee bashers now are all concerned for them, using them as a bashing pole against this government.

    The moment Abbott is in, if he gets in, these same people will again have no sympathy for the asylum seekers, it’s their fault they die at sea, they bring disease, are terrorists, take jobs, suck the tax payer,all their usual bashing points.

  18. Chris

    That’s still almost 2000 people dead since 2008…. There should be no politics in this…. Damn both political parties to hell, this is both their fault but mostly its the Australian people’s fault for being so shit

  19. Dagney J. Taggart

    Michael, the Australian Parliament document you link to only contains statistics up to June 2012, over twelve months ago. It shows that between 2008 and June 2012, 19,466 people arrived by boat. The Refugee Council of Australia indicates that 31,209 asylum seekers arrived by boat between 2008 and Dec 2012. An article published on 01 Jul 13 in The Age states that 12,936 asylum seekers arrived in the first six months of 2013, which takes the total from 2008 to 30 Jun 2013, to 44,145. Abbott’s statement was dated 25 Jul 13. Did a further 4,000 asylum seekers arrive between 01 and 25 Jul? Possibly, possibly not. I don’t have those figures so I can’t make any statement disputing or defending Abbott’s claim.

    Michael, if you are going to try to play gotcha, it’s probably a good idea to make sure your facts are straight beforehand.

  20. Natasha

    1200 asylum seekers have arrived Christmas island one week after Rudd’s PNG plan.

    Rudd Labor government foolishly dismantled Howard’s Pacific solution in August 2008- flood gate has opened since, that is 1200/week x 52 weeks/ year x 5 years = numbers of people arrived. 48,000 is a conservative number.

    The number of asylum seeker arrived under Labor is so huge and the drowning death toll is so high that Mr Rudd is so scared and so desperate – he has to abandon his moral high ground and to come up with extreme PNG plan.

  21. xiaoecho

    “Your dumb ALP government….” “You assorted leftards…” Why are the right so uncivil? Just plain disrespectful of difference. Scary

  22. Michael Taylor

    Dagney, I used the figures for calendar years, not financial years.

  23. Dagney J. Taggart

    Michael, noted, but looking at it again, your figure of 31,654 is actually from 1976 to end 2011. 2012 is not included. Interestingly, when I copied that table from the report into excel to check the figures, the 2012 figure did not come across as a number, so excel did not include it in any addition. When it is changed to a number, the 1976 to June 2012 amount is 37,113.

    In any case, the Refugee Council of Australia figures I quoted are by calendar year, and show 31,209 from 2008 to end 2012. The figure from The Age gives another 12,936 to June 13, taking the total to 44,145. I just found another article where The Age reported today “Already this year, 17,075 people have come by boat to claim asylum in Australia.” This would take the 2008 to present total to 48,284.

    The Refugee Council URL is Table is at bottom of page.

    The Age URL is Figure is in second para.

    Sorry, don’t know how to insert links.

  24. Dagney J. Taggart

    Oops, apparently I do…..

  25. Michael Taylor

    Dagney, I might have erred when I transferred the figures onto a spreadsheet. I’ll check them in the morning. I’ll apologise in advance if I have given the wrong figure.

    Our ‘How To’ page should show you a few tricks you might want to use when inserting links.

  26. Ricky Pann

    Serious denial so hypocrisy is normal.. Watch them project as Rudd owns Bolt this morning.

  27. Dan Rowden

    As big a creep as Abbott may be and however much he might like to play with figures for political purposes, I’m not sure there’s much moral force in the difference between 1000 and 862. I’m quite uncomfortable with the idea that there is.

  28. Dan Rowden

    Well, Ricky, as it turned out Rudd fell far short of owning Bolt. But no-one other than the sharpest of minds can really deal with the likes of Bolt who uses strategies that have no relationship to any form on recognisable intellectual integrity. His questions mostly take the form of “Have you stopped beating your wife?” – i.e. a loaded question or “complex question fallacy”. It’s a mistake important social issues with manipulative turds like Bolt. Mind you, politicians do it to each other all the time so I have little real sympathy for Rudd.

  29. Fed up

    Ok they are born liars-with poor memories…………..

  30. Fed up

    As for Bolt, he is more interested in proving his point of view, than getting the views of those he interviews. Anyone that watches Bolt regularly, would realise today, he might have been outsmarted. Not that I have any love for Rudd.

    Bolt reminds me of many of the trolls that visit us. Only interested in proving they are right. Nothing else matters.

    Like Abbott and Hockey out once again today, talking about what they think might be happening, or supporting rorts of the taxation system.. Carr made much sense, but suspect we will hear more of the Abbott/Hockey interview, that that of Carr.

  31. Fed up

    I suspect that Abbott will keep lying, as I have come to the belief, they all believe the lies. They have denuded themseles into believing, everyone sees Labor as THEY DO.

  32. Fed up

    I think I might mean deluded.

  33. Bob Evans

    Watch them project as Rudd owns Bolt this morning.

    Gotta say. Rudd mopped the floor with Bolt. I thought Bolt would get away with his usual shit, but Rudd was determined to pin him down on everything he said. Rudd truly had Bolt on the ropes. It’s a rare site, but beautiful to behold.

  34. doctorrob54

    I can not believe the libturds actually believe what they spin.Even when it is pointed out the obvious lies Abbott and his band of grubs spread they blame the ALP for Abbott lying,how in hell can one argue with mental imbiciles.

  35. lawriejay

    It’s OK for Tones he can lie and is forgiven in confession by Georgie Pell – No Tones wont go to Hell – Australia runs the risk though ??

  36. Möbius Ecko

    Gotta say. Rudd mopped the floor with Bolt.

    Yet to show the sheer arrogance of Bolt he ended with words to the effect that he hoped he had not harmed him (Rudd) too much.

    No harm was done to Bolt of course, even though he was shown up as not being a reporter’s nose hair. When you are already that low, no amount of displaying incompetency will harm your rock bottom reputation any further.

  37. Wayne

    Ecko, a you are worse than a nose hair.

  38. Wayne

    LawrieJay, has it ever occured to you that Tony Abbot is not lying and that your dumb alp hero who meesed everything up Kevin Rudd is?.

  39. Möbius Ecko

    Ecko, a you are worse than a nose hair.

    Let’s respond to that in the maturity it deserves.

    “No you are nya nya.”

  40. cornlegend

    As a self confessed expert on the Proboscis, let me say
    “nose hair” plays a crucial and critical role in the nasal structure.
    Wayne, i agree with you.
    Möbius Ecko” plays a crucial and critical role” in the fight against Abbott and his bottom feeder mates

  41. Fed up

    John, we do indeed have a lot of people willing to tell one, where one is going wrong. Wonder if any ever look at the content.

    Maybe they are to busy looking at structure, to comprehend what has been written.

    John, many love the way you write, and do indeed take your commonsense scribblings seriously.

    Note, they ignore, that Abbott lies, every time he opens his mouth. Has manager five lies in one sentence, not a bad effort for any man.

    As for my grammar, do not waste your time, it is lousy. Too old to change.

    John, i always look forward to your stories, and I like having a site, that fits in with my leanings. Funny that none that make that comment, never challenge what has been said.

    Years ago, back in the last century one could find many left-wing writers, but they seemed to have disappeared and one only hears from right wing organizations,

    It is if those who are to the left, have become ashamed of their beliefs. If they do front with someone from the left, they are generally from out on the fringes, and in the extreme.

    That is sad. One needs to hear from both sides.

    I suspect, that both sides have much to offer, and we end up with something in between. This is just my whine.

  42. Fed up

    Wayne, I suspect that most that come here are very aware of what Rudd is. Saying that, he is still preferable to Abbott. That is what you and your ilk cannot see.

  43. Fed up

    Wonder what they think of the way Abbott uses grammar. He takes a long list of slogans, none that have any connection, stands there and repeats them one after another.

    He does not even pause, as he goes from one to the next.

    We have been hearing them every day, for nigh on four years.

    Yes, the same old stale slogans, sayings and motherhood statements. All interlaced with many lies.

    Yes, I do love the way Abbott uses grammar. His pronunciation is even worse. “Doxide” has to be top of the list, every time he talks about carbon emission. I have a hearing defect, that leads to me not hearing all the initial sounds of words, but Abbott is so bad, even I do not miss the mistakes.

    I use subtitles when listening to interviews. It allows one to see what questions are being asked. What it also shows up, is the lousy pronunciation of many of the speakers.

    So those who say that one does not respect if grammar is bad, how do you explain the apparent success of Abbott. Just asking. Even Rudd uses language that many would avoid, but is also appears to work.

    John, please do not change your writing style.

  44. doctorrob54

    Wayne you and your ilk are so pathetic how can you imagine that most of Aus.will vote for your preferred party.

  45. Wayne

    Fed up there is nothing preferable about Rudd he started all the boat people mess and doctor, we are not going to put up with a alp that have lied to us about a 2013, fuel watch, Nd a carbon dioxide tax.

  46. Jo Bloh

    My father’s name is Wayne. And I really hope that he hasn’t taken to trolling boards in retirement. If that’s you Dad, give it up, you’re embarrassing me!!

  47. doctorrob54

    There is many Wayne around,don’t get to nervous Jo.JG was undermined,slandered and misrepresented all the time she was there.The strength she proved to have will never be had by either side of politics again.what Wayne is winging about was bought about due the consequences of a hung parliament.

  48. phil

    Abbott is a no good lie ing ass hole ?
    and now he’s even stuffed it up with indonesia?

  49. Möbius Ecko

    Shorter Wayne. Please don’t look at my idiotic failing Abbott, look at Rudd.

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