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A Most Immoral Act

Morrison-and-AbbottIn a lifelong experience of following politics I have, until now, never witnessed children being horse traded, and senators being blackmailed, for the passing of legislation. In this case to reintroduce Temporary Protection Visas.

It looks as though Immigration Minister Scott Morrison (and the senators) have taken the yes side on the ageless Christian ethical dilemma “Does the end justify the means”.

It is a fascination to me as to why people assume that religion has some form of monopoly on morality. And even worse, they pretend to speak on Gods behalf in dispensing it.

Morrison said:

“I will not take moral lectures from Bill Shorten or Sarah Hanson-Young when it comes to border protection on that or any other issues,’’

Abbott said:

“So this is a win for Australia, it’s also a win for humanitarian values, it’s a win for human decency’’

Jesus said:

“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”

We are all wired for decency and conscience with or without religion. Some understand it better than others illustrated by either what we do or don’t do. By our mercy and compassion or deficiency in it.

Morrison like many of the Cabinet are serious practicing Christians who interpret God’s word to fit snugly with their political ideology. They easily accommodate policy with their own definition of scripture, justifying their immorality to themselves. An evil in itself.

As someone who spent many years in a church environment similar to Morrison s (now an open-minded atheist) I can assure the reader that there are many who think like Morrison. They worship their politics and religion without demarcation. In doing so they believe that telling the truth isn’t necessarily in their best interests.

This government seems intent on imposing its own particular form of Christianity on an unsuspecting population. And I might add, one that is completely at odds with current Papal uttering on social inequality.

The decision to sack highly credentialed social workers, doing excellent work in high schools and replace them with accredited Chaplains is outrageous.

And now it seems that taxpayer funds are to be used to fund the training of Priests in religious institutions.

What ever happened to the secular society?

The fools that frequent the senate.

The inexperienced cross-bench senators buckled into the ransom dangled before their collective conscience and awarded the executive the power to ‘’play God ‘’ with the lives of those seeking safety from this supposed Christian nation.

In all fairness it could not have been an easy decision.

Senator Muir, said he was:

“Forced into a corner to decide between a bad decision and a worse decision, a position I do not wish on my worst enemies”.

Maybe the Palmer United Party senators felt the same.

It has also been reported that Morrison’s department had children on Christmas Island phone Muir and beg their freedom even giving them the phones to do so. Now that’s something straight out of the “classic hostage situation” handbook. That’s what terrorists do with hostages.

So, with the passing of this Bill what have we ended up with?

Crikey put it this way, calling it an immoral disgrace:

“At 8.06 this morning it was done: the House of Representatives passed the government’s Migration and Maritime Powers Legislation Amendment (Resolving the Asylum Legacy Caseload) Bill 2014, following its passage and amendment just after midnight in the Senate. Parliamentarians then got to go home for Christmas, having delivered the Immigration Minister extraordinary powers that in effect obliterate any further pretence that Australia regards asylum seekers as human beings.

The bill restored the failed Howard-era policy of temporary protection visas, a mechanism that actually increased boat arrivals when last attempted. Whether Clive Palmer seriously believes that there is a pathway to citizenship contained in a kind of homeopathic form within the legislation — or it merely suits its purposes to pretend there is — we don’t know, but Scott Morrison has been crystal clear that TPVs will never provide permanent protection.

But the bill goes much further, freeing Australia from any obligations associated with the Refugee Convention, including giving Morrison and his department — which has repeatedly demonstrated it is profoundly incompetent and resistant to the most basic forms of accountability — the power to return people to torture and persecution without judicial review.”

On the one hand cross bench senators like Ricky Muir, Nick Xenophon might argue that the end does indeed justify the means. After all there will be many freed from their dreadful incarceration and the migrant intake has been increased. But did they consider that Morrison already held powers to resolve these issues, to release people. Especially children. His threat was that unless they passed his legislation they could rot in hell.

They could have called his bluff.

Their pretentious anguish at having to deal with such a choice can’t hide the grim reality of their actions.

Greg Barnes (a spokesman for the Australian Lawyers Alliance and barrister) put this way:

“But in passing this legislation Senator Muir and his colleagues have done what many would think is unconscionable in a society that supposedly subscribes to the rule of law – allow the executive to “play God” with the lives of those in our world who want to put their case for asylum to a rich, developed world country with ample capacity to take them.”

Morrison is now effectively above the High Court and our conformity to the International Convention on Refugees has been written out of our law.

The bill, in all probability is the most immoral ever passed by an Australian Parliament.

Not only that, it is also bad policy. It says much about the leaders of this country and their shameful misrepresentation of the faith they profess to follow.
No matter in what sphere of government policy (immigration, health, pensioners, education etc) one looks, you find the hand of Abbott’s hate on those who refuse to join Team Australia.

He seeks to reward those who follow and punish those who don’t. In the past week much has been written about the horrendous failings of his government.

A lot has centered on Abbott’s credentials as a leader. Therein lies the fundamental problem. For those of us who have followed his career closely, it’s easy. He has none.

Leviticus 19:33-34
“When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.


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  1. Peter Ball

    perhaps its time Australia to face trade sanctions from the UN because of its failure to protect Refugees and now placing the Minister above the HIGH COURT etc

  2. helvityni

    Shame on you Australia; we cry for weeks at the accidental death of a young cricketer, yet we calmly watch our Government ruin thousands of innocent lives. Has our justice system punished the killers of Reza Berati?

  3. Keith

    The abbott gang are proving to be a morally bankrupt group willing to do anything to get their way.
    It is recognized throughout Australian given constant poor polling, the Victorian election result, and now the South Australian by election.

  4. gerard oosterman

    A dreadful turn for Australia. Crimes against humanity are being committed. Children in detention. How did it come to that?

  5. John Kelly

    When future generations ask, “how could you have let this happen,” let no one say we didn’t know.

  6. Pingback: A most immoral Act | Oosterman Treats Blog

  7. helenmarg

    I am too upset by this to express it so I hope Helvityni will not mind if agree with her.

  8. John Fraser


    Great Article J.L.

    And to add to it :

    "Celebrated psychiatrist and author of The Road Less Travelled, M. Scott Peck defines evil as “consistently self-deceiving, while scapegoating others.” He says evil commonly hates with the pretence of love, for the purposes of self-deception as much as deception of others. Again he describes evil as “the abuse of political power while maintaining a high level of respectability”, and having a “covert intolerance to criticism and other forms of narcissistic injury.”


  9. helenmarg

    Wonderful John Lord as usual and thank you.

  10. corvus boreus

    If immigration staff or other governmental officials really did give incarcerated asylum-seeking children phones and encourage them to call cross-bench senators, that is beyond dodgy and dirty manipulation, that is outright sick.

    The fact that we automatically imprison children without charge or conviction is disturbing enough.

    The fact that the detention of these blameless juveniles is conducted on foreign soil(or sand) and outsourced to private contractors with diminished governmental scrutiny and responsibility is a display of direct negligence of duty of care by those who support and enact the legislation of mandatory detention.

    The fact that the personal liberty of imprisoned minors was utilised as currency for political horse-trading games, in order for a minister to pass amendments that allow him to personally sidestep legal oversight and accountability, both domestic and international, is devious and nefarious skull-duggery of the very lowest order.

    If these captive children were given phones and told to beg for their freedom (in order to increase the powers of a politician), well, that would be an act which is the stuff of diabolically-dastardly, mustachio-twirling, cartoon villainy.

    “Just give me the keys, and I’ll let some of the children go free. There is no need for them to suffer any more. Would you like to talk to some of the children? Listen, can you hear them crying?”

    Scotty Morrison; enacting deeds of pure evil.

  11. John Lord

    John Fraser.

    I still have that book on my shelves.

  12. Terry2

    It seems, John, that we have mislaid our moral compass, not lost it but just misplaced , and it will be found again; perhaps a little tarnished and a little soiled but still in working order.

    We elected these cretins and it is within our competence to consign them to a deserved and dark place in our history.

  13. CMMC

    Skinhead ideology, passed into law by neatly-suited Senators.

    Watch out for politicians dog-whistling for that Skinhead vote, e.g., Jacqui Lambie recently made an “offhand” comment about “our beautiful Southern Cross”. That symbol is becoming the new Swastika for the rabid and feral.

  14. mars08

    Two points:

    The politicians who passed this legislation MUST now be held accountable for any injury it causes. They MUST ensure Morrison doesn’t abuse his powers. They have the power to pass these laws, but they should also be made aware of the responsibilities that follow. To use a Biblical analogy… they cannot be allowed to do a Pontius Pilate on this legislation.


    After all these years of listening to Abbott and his slimy thugs… it still fu&#%g astounds me how shameless they are!!!

    For years the LNP (and most of Labor) have dragged their arses about children in detention. The Coalition (and their supporters) have screeched that releasing the children would encourage more boats… and illegal… and brown people… …and halal… and terrorism… and existential threat… and Centrelink payments… and blargle argle fwarp!

    Keeping the children behind barber wire was a crucial part of the deterrent. Being inhumane to the children was an indispensable part of the plan. It was vital… if Australia was to continue to exist as we know it. The minister had no choice if he wanted to protect us from the waiting armada.

    Now, overnight… it’s okay to release the children. Apparently it’s no big deal …all it takes is some official paperwork.

    Can someone PLEASE explain how Abbott’s mob (and his MSM boosters) have any credibility at all??? Why haven’t they been ridiculed out of the country???

  15. stephentardrew

    This is where propositional logic and moral philosophy is all over religion and rather than ideologues pressing unsupportable and unsubstantial claims to moral efficacy we can follow the foundations of logic going back to Plato and Aristotle which, in effect, predates Christianity. The problem for critiques of religious dogma is that anything can be justified using any passage of the Torah and New Testament.

    Put simply their is no foundational set of axioms that cannot be contradicted by some other passage within these texts. The point is when the foundations of pseudo moral precepts are based upon a loose set of irrational and illogic texts it is not possible to derive a universal set of foundational axioms that can be applied to the fundamental principles of propositional logic and thus justice, equity and utility.

    Philosopher are often their own worst enemies be appealing to the minutia of convoluted arguments when, like Ockham’s razor in science, we need a coherent foundation for good. It can be clearly demonstrated that people do not create their realities and we do not have free will and that people are more often than not victims of circumstances and genetic heritability. Peter Singer in his book “A life You Can Live” offers an easily accessible summation of the philosophy of good and moral responsibility.

    The placement of Chaplains in schools is a direct attempt to undermine science, propositional logic and a contemporary scientific basis for ethics. Our country is being forced back into the dark ages of witchcraft and magical, mythological incoherence by a group of insane ideologues whose only claim to knowledge is their ability to be susceptibility to irrationality; an inability to think logically; a propensity to be driven by fear; and a compulsion to harm and blame those who are less well off than themselves.

    To harm and torture other human beings, including children, is immoral from any rational and logical standpoint based in propositional logic and ethics. Simple immoral solutions for emotionally, ethically and developmentally delayed minds.

    The fools have control of governance internationally and are bringing about the destruction of democracy social harmony distributive ethics and moral responsibility. In short these people are at war with democracy, justice, secularism and the promotion of compassion, non- judgment, tolerance, forgiveness, rehabilitation and equitable redistribution of goods so that everyone has a decent chance to survive with some reasonable material foundations and personal dignity.

    At the moment there is no organized political lobby that is challenging this unsupportable nonsense. There must be a non-partisan body of scientist that review all legislation in relation to scientific proofs so they represent justifiable and logically coherent solutions to social problems. Economist Steve Keen suggest that all social and economic problems are engineering problems usurped by uneducated emotionally immature ideologues who cannot interpret empirical facts simply because they do not know what they are.

    Democracy is something we have to work at based upon contemporary facts not indoctrinated primitive ideas that have no rational foundations in a modern context. Unless we challenge these uneducated fools a lot of people are going to suffer unnecessarily and the biosphere is at risk of irreparable damage.

    A bit long however it is an issue that demands deep thought and a direct challenge to the authority of irrational dogmatism.

  16. lyne fomiatti

    Australia weep in shame as we now have no moral integrity.

  17. Garth

    Stephentardrew, well said. I continue to be shaken by the number of otherwise seemingly good people who state they support these horrific measures because the ends justify the means (that is never stated explicitly but that’s exactly the message). Imprisoning, tormenting and neglecting people, be they man/woman or adult/child is never ok and cannot – CANNOT – be justified by any stated or perceived ‘end’. I’m just disgusted at my country, positively disgusted!

  18. John Lord

    Stephen T. Can I quote you in something else I am writing?

  19. mars08


    It seems, John, that we have mislaid our moral compass, not lost it but just misplaced , and it will be found again…

    Yeh, about that. Maybe the electorate inadvertently “misplaced our moral compass”. But the politicians (from both major parties) stomped on it and threw it in the washing machine. Then our clueless media hid it behind the couch. According to the opinion polls, most Australians aren’t interested in finding it again.

    And even if the ALP had a compass, I doubt they’d be willing to use it…

    ‘Young-looking’ refugees sent offshore
    31 Jul 2014 – 6:04 PM

    Young-looking children were chosen to be transferred to the harsh Manus Island refugee detention centre to discourage other refugees from coming to Australia, an inquiry has heard.

    And children detained in facilities on Nauru are suffering illnesses and mental conditions caused by unsanitary and inhospitable conditions on the island nation while all refugees are subjected to a broad “intention to dehumanise”.

    Former officials, charity workers and doctors who worked in the immigration system have given at times distressing evidence to an Australian Human Rights Commission (AHRC) inquiry into the fate of children caught in Australia’s detention centres.

    Gregory Lake, the former director of offshore processing and transfers at the Department of Immigration and Border Protection, told the inquiry he was directed by a ministerial staff member to choose the youngest-looking children from among those eligible for the first transfer of detained people from Australia to Manus Island in 2012, when Labor was in government.

    “Because they wanted to send a deterrent message, it was important to send some children, to say that children are not exempt from transfer,” Mr Lake said…


  20. David

    The further shame and disgusting intent by the 2 PUP Senators and Muir voting for Morrison’s filthy bill, even though they were aware of the childs jacked up phone call prior to the vote and disregarded the obscenity.
    That was unforgivable in my book and Muir is very fortunate I was unable to get through to him by phone. His excuse, no it wasn’t an excuse it was a cop out, the easy way to go convinced by Palmer with what promise?

    Lazarus is merely the voice of Palmer, he votes as he is told and Palmer is looking after Palmer. As for the other x/benchers, they showed their true colours and apart from Senators Madigan and Lambie, despite all their weasel words voted with the totally discredited Govt in keeping some children Christmas Island and all on Manus and Nauru behind razor wire.
    That is the shame of their actions in the early hours of Friday morning

    I cry for my country, but I cry longest for the children who are treated like criminals, by my countries Government. That is their shame and I for one will never forget.

  21. philgorman2014

    And Jesus said, “As you do unto these, the least of my brethren, so you do unto me”.

    Irregular arrivals

    It’s not my child
    struggling for breath
    through dust choked nostrils
    under the rubble

    It’s not my child
    fleeing the murderers
    crossing arbitrary borders
    to stay alive

    It’s not my child
    under a filthy blanket
    in a dark corner
    waiting for the men

    It’s not my child
    drowning in the night
    whose salt tears
    become the sea

    It’s not my child
    face up in the surf
    hair mingling with the sand
    of a hostile shore

    It’s not my child
    in the dusty camp
    blank faced
    behind the wire

    It is not my child
    who lives without hope
    drowning in an ocean
    of implacable callousness

    It’s not my child.

    Not yet.

    And Jesus said,
    “Suffer the little children to come unto me”.

  22. stephentardrew

    Most Certainly John anytime.

    Great article by the way.


  23. stephentardrew


    Great Poem Phil sharp, clear, and heartfelt.

  24. Paul G. Dellit

    When ideology eviscerates humanity, you get the LNP front bench, except for Scott Morrison who just enjoys his job. And why not:
    . so much power,
    . holding the fates of so many people in his hands,
    . being hailed a success by his colleagues by cleverly using his Ministerial discretion to keep children in conditions of life-deforming psychological torture and threatening to keep it up unless the Senate yielded to his will.

    Thing is, when the class actions begin against him personally for these discretionary acts of torture, the Nazi Neurembeg defence is and will be unavailable to him. Let’s hope that ultimately his life is ruined by interminable court battles through which he is defeated, not as a matter of revenge but to deter the likes of this moral scum ever rising to the surface of politics in Australia again.

  25. DanDark

    We have had enough of this immoral pack of cruel men who think they are above the law,
    I agree with earlier comment, a young well fed well paid cricketer who gets to travel the world for free gets accidently killed and we Aussies cant control our grief supposedly, but when an asylum seeker dies its pushed under the carpet and never mentioned again by the mainstream media, no murder charges against the perpetrators who bashed Reza, These cowards we call a gov will have to pay one day, maybe not tomorrow nor next week, but they will pay and pay badly before they pass on to the promised land, I just hope I am still alive to see these morons get their just deserts it will happen.


  26. John Lord

    Yes the poem is excellent.

  27. silkworm

    Scott Morrison is a Bad Samaritan.

  28. mars08

    “The liberties of none are safe unless the liberties of all are protected.

    Do the easily-distracted, self-absorbed, disengaged masses simply assume that these sorts of laws will ONLY impact on asylum-seekers, Muslims and other minorities??

  29. Denise Abraham

    Too upset to put into words how I feel about this, other than to say that I hope those who voted for this evil bill are proud of their moral bankruptcy.

  30. Richard Knowles, Nambour Qld.

    Guess who said these words. At what point do we say enough is enough?

    Nothing could be more calculated to bring our democracy into disrepute and alienate the citizenry of Australia from their government than if governments were to establish by precedent that they could say one thing before an election, and do the other afterwards.

  31. Kevin Arnold

    There is a precedent for all this you know. With all the hand wringing around the centenary of the First World War, we should also spare a thought for it’s bastard son, the Second World war. In my mind, the lesson of WW1 is that it was possible for leaders to send a human being into battle to inflict unspeakable brutality on another human being while at the same time subjecting their own soldiers to inhuman conditions.
    Somehow we have accepted this as some sort of twisted coming of age. This might have some legitimacy if it did not destroy the very generation that was supposed to have come of age during this period of awakening. WW2 was a war that, at least on one side of the conflict, was a war that the people actually wanted. Rid us of the Jews. Rid us of the Communists. Rid us of all those people that do not conform to our twisted perceptions of ourselves. Hitler is a metaphor for this condition. We use him as a reference for all that is evil in us. I have said it before on this blog but there is a book by Ian Kershaw on Hitler. As I read it , I kept getting visions of Abbott and his weasels. All the hanger-ons and sociopaths in this book have startling similarities to those in our government today. Morrison, Pine, Andrews , Hunt , no need to go on, it’s too depressing. The main theme of this book by Ian Kershaw is what he calls ” Acting towards the Fuhrer”. According to him, Hitler is rarely proven to be complicit in the atrocities of the Third Reich. He just let it be known what would be necessary and those under him would fill the gaps. ” Acting towards the Fuhrer”. We had this during Howard’s time when the Department Of Immigration deported who knows how many Australian citizens. We have it now, as stated in this article, when one half of our legislature, with a few notable exceptions, brought to the surface a darkness that most had hoped would never rise again. If this government puts us in a place that we do not want to go, but are temporally blinded by it’s lies, we may have some moral excuse to offer our grand-children. I am a bit concerned that somehow we are silently happy to embark on this journey to hell for the same reasons that turned Germany from decency to depravity in such a short time, hatred and fear deliberately instilled in us to achieve some personal end. An end that has no resemblance to decency or even reality. One startling part of this book describes an incident that was not political or even race motivated. A father came to Hitler wanting to euthanise his severely handicapped son. As soon as this was approved, there was a deluge of applications from the medical profession wanting permission to do the same. Working towards the Fuhrer indeed. Walk away from this sociopath Abbott and his band of mis-fits before our grand-children have to spend most of their lives apologising for our stupidity.

  32. Kaye Lee

    Guess who said this…….

    “From my faith I derive the values of loving kindness, justice and righteousness, to act with compassion and kindness, acknowledging our common humanity and to consider the welfare of others; to fight for a fair go for everyone to fulfil their human potential and to remove whatever unjust obstacles stand in their way … Desmond Tutu put it this way: ‘We expect Christians … to stand up for the truth, to stand up for justice, to stand on the side of the poor and the hungry, the homeless and the naked, and when that happens, then Christians will be trustworthy believable witnesses.’ These are my principles”.

    Scott Morrison’s maiden speech in Parliament 2008

  33. mars08

    “We expect Christians … to stand up for the truth, to stand up for justice, to stand on the side of the poor and the hungry, the homeless and the naked…”

    Yes… yes we do. Evidently our Scott is NOT a Christian.

  34. Ross

    When the cross bench senators ponder their actions on this matter over the Christmas break, the words
    “revenge is a dish best served warm” should be front and centre on their return in 2015.

  35. auntyuta

    You say: “The bill, in all probability is the most immoral ever passed by an Australian Parliament.”
    If enough people say this maybe it can be rectified?
    What you published really tears at some heartstrings. Thank you for writing all this. I copied the whole post and published it on auntyuta.

  36. David

    Ross I watched and absorbed the whole debate last Thursday. Two of the yes voting Senators Xenophon and Leyonhjelm categorically stated, if Morrison goes back on anything he promised he would do, they would never again be influenced in their voting by this Govts word and assurances.
    This as far as I am concerned in no way excuses that they did vote for the disgrace of a bill Nothing will. To take the word of a mad man, a terrorist in Morrison, will forever be a stain on the presence of those cross benchers in and out of politics
    The smallest of small pluses is, I doubt Morrison is too concerned about keeping his word, its not in his DNA. He may well be the author of his own demise.

  37. puffytmd

    I am disgusted and appalled by Morrison and the stupid cross benchers who voted for this depravity. I despise those in our community who just want ‘the boats to stop’ and don’t care how it is done.

  38. Jan

    As a Christian for over 40 years, and having been involved in paid ministry for a number of those years, I am absolutely horrified by the actions of those who claim to be Christian in the LNP, and especially Scott Morrison.
    Some of us Christians are speaking out, and some acting in non violent civil disobedience to the point of being arrested. Check out Love Makes A Way.
    Check out also Common Grace.
    Using the kids on Christmas Island as bargaining chips in the way Morrison has, is utterly repugnant.
    I weep for the direction my country has headed, and continues to head further away from any decency..

  39. charybds

    So many religion based comments here …

    You don’t need religion to be completely F#@%ing disgusted by Australia’s treatment of asylum seekers (of any age).

    But where was the public outcry?

    We got the govt. we deserved, because sitting in our comfy lounges watching ‘Insight’ we didn’t get out and make ourselves heard.

    People who need/ed our help are languishing and being abused in what amounts to the Australian version of Guantanamo because we didn’t believe any ‘Australians’ could possibly be so inhumane.

    No good blaming the dumbass senators like Muir who get there because we tell ourselves there is no urgent need to fix our electoral system just yet. It can wait for the next parliament or sometime when it is less inconvenient to our ‘economic’ reforms (or whatever other BS is occupying our perception of what is important this week).

    How long will we sit at home being ‘offended’ by the things done in the name of corporate convenience and the personal quests for power of our so called ‘representatives’ (ironic that I used the term “so called”).

    Where is the crowd bearing torches and pitchforks dragging Scott Morrison, Paris Aristotle, et al out of their beds and off to Manus in the stead of their victims?

    Where are the submissions to the Hague?

    We are all bloody guilty of this .. through sheer complacency.

  40. abbienoiraude

    I am angry. I am disgusted. I am fraught with frustration. I feel ashamed and sickened by Australia. Hope we are sanctioned and suffer for what we do to innocent people asking us for help.

    ‘We expect Christians … to stand up for the truth, to stand up for justice, to stand on the side of the poor and the hungry, the homeless and the naked, and when that happens, then Christians will be trustworthy believable witnesses.’ These are my principles”.

    Scott Morrison’s maiden speech in Parliament 2008

    If this is what ‘we expect Christians’ to do, then I’m afraid I no longer trust, respect or have interest in any words of any Christian in any sphere ever again. You, Morrison, have broken your word, your character, your religious vow, your sense as a human being as well as an Australian let alone a Parliamentarian with me.
    Never ever again will I ever trust anyone who claims their Imaginary Friend is a guide, a power so divine, a teacher/rabbi, who keeps them on the ‘narrow path of righteousness’.
    As an atheist you have confirmed my contempt for your pretence, whether it be the Happy Clappy Morrison’s beliefs or the rich and powerful Catholic Church taking money out of coffers they have never donated to EVER in Australia’s history.

    Pay taxes you rich and wilful underhanded power-pussies.
    Pay the rent to our Indigenous, our poor, our homeless and our disabled.
    Pay for the terror you inflict upon the children of our asylum seekers.

    If there were a god you would be part of the proof by your own demise. May your god damn you for all time, for if it won’t I do!

  41. mars08

    So true Jan.

    We should be grateful for those real Christians who have been protesting at various govt buildings and politician’s offices. It’s also worth noting the efforts of the Gosford Anglican Church in trying to raise public awareness.

  42. Andre Poublon

    With the means used to secure this legislation, this government has proven beyond a doubt that they are indeed psychopaths.

  43. MariaE

    In response to Charybds Andrew Wilkie has made a submission to the Hague.

    “Independent federal MP Andrew Wilkie has written to the Office of the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC), requesting the body investigate and prosecute the prime minister, Tony Abbott, and his 19 cabinet ministers over the treatment of asylum seekers.

    In the letter, sent last week, Wilkie alleges that the Australian government is inflicting crimes against humanity upon asylum seekers and refugees in violation of the ICC’s Rome Statute.”

    Letter was sent in October 2014.

  44. mars08

    Sadly, I gave up on any return to decency shortly after Reza Berati was killed on Manus Island. It became painfully obvious that neither of the major parties (or the general public) was interested in any justice or proper humane treatment of asylum seekers. Most politicians or media types who commented were just looking to score some cheap political points.

    Opinion polls show that a majority of Australians favour the harsh treatment of asylum seekers. I fear things will have to become much, much worse before Australia rethinks this barbaric cruelty.

    And how will be know when the level of inhumanity has become unacceptable? Well… our reliable MSM will tell us, right? Right?

  45. Annie B

    @ John Lord ………. an extremely worthwhile article – excellently writtten .. ………

    I feel so very ashamed, as an Australian – of this vile and corrupt Government. …. I / we cannot abide Morrison and his inhumanity, his incredible cruelty and immorality.

    Isn’t there SOMEONE who has the authority to bring this heinous mob to court – here or in the Hague ? …… particularly for breaking the rules of the UNHCR – ( this Government have thumbed their noses at them ) – – and for treating innocent children in the way they have.

    Disgusting beyond belief – all of it.


    Also have to wonder what far reaching consequences, the Maritime Agency laws that have been changed, might mean.


    @ philgorman2014 ….

    A wonderful – yet heart-breaking poem.

  46. David

    Also there is a massive nation wide protest being planned for March next year. Why March not now? This is I am told to be a biggie, and it is a huge organizational project, bigger than the recent March in Marches.
    So to say the nation is sitting back and accepting is somewhat disingenuous. Social media has been very active in condemning Morrison, the Govt and the cross bench Senators who supported the bill, particularly PUP and the motoring nutter who took the call from the youngster on Christmas Island, set up by the terrorist Morrison, knew it and still voted yes.
    I have used Twitter extensively telling the said Senators of my disgust, I have written to Morrison and the PM, not the only one. We use the means we have available and work behind the scenes, it is not going away.

  47. helenmarg

    This government is making me and others physically ill.At my age as someone else has already stated I hope I am here to see the government s disgusting and evil behavior come back to haunt them.How can the LNP stand behind and allow Scott Morrison to be there anymore.They are all equally as bad.The wonderful Gosford Church Posters and Vicar express how I feel.

  48. helenmarg

    Interested to know what Tim Wilson is being paid to do .He is supposed to be commissioner For Human Rights .What on earthis he doing.George Brandis should make a few suggestions .He put him there from the IPA.

  49. corvus boreus

    So again we March in March. Thank you, David, that is good news.
    I can understand why such rallies are not held too frequently, the organisation and motivation by those involved would tax their spirits and funds. Hastily organised events can have disappointingly low turnouts that do not justify the efforts put in.
    We have 3 months to solidify and organize within our conscious minds, individual and collective, a logical narrative of exactly what we see wrong with what is currently being done, a practical suggestion or two of how to stop the worst of such from being done, and a few ideas of what to replace the most unacceptable procedures with. Carry a succinct summary of the case for your opinion ready for deployment. Just case you find an open mike, public or press-titute.
    My central theme shall once again be corruption and croneyism, and the need for a thorough investigation of the business conducted in and around Canberra, and procedural reforms including independent advice/oversight of public expenses.
    In a (big red)word; “ICAC”.

  50. apmartin2014

    There are thousands of us, Christian or otherwise, who fight the evil that is Australia’s asylum seeker policy with everything we have. We network, we march, we protest, we petition, we write to the media. There are artists, writers, actors, musicians, medical professionals, legal practitioners and people from every other walk of life using every means they can to highlight and decry what is so wrong and who is perpetrating those wrongs. I can understand the opinion of some that it is Australia’s apathy and complacency that has led us to where we are today, but we mustn’t lose heart. Not everyone is complacent or apathetic and when commentators are tempted to say that ‘we’ are to blame and it is ‘us’ who have let it happen, please pause and acknowledge that a huge and vocal ‘us’ are actively and tirelessly opposed.

  51. pamelac65

    Just left detention centre. Sitting at the table where a mother from Nauru holding her daughter’s hand said without rancour or tears-” how are we different from the people on Christmas Island”
    Her daughter said’They did not say one word about us-not one time about us”.
    The father and brother still in Nauru camp as an anchor to ensure that Mother and daughter return when medical tests are finished.

    These laws so arbitrary and so cruel even before the full ramifications are revealed.
    Those unlucky enough to be selected for Nauru for no particular reason are now condemned.
    Those lucky enough not to be selected are momentarily joyous because they believe that they will be released from detention hell. Little do they know that FAST TRACK awaits to ensure that they are not accepted.
    Arbitrary selection sees an arbitrary outcome.

  52. Bernie Masters

    In 2007, when Labor took office, there were no children in detention and after it weakened the regime 820 boats brought more than 50,000 asylum-seekers, including 8459 children, to our shores; filling detention centres in every state. And more than 1200 people drowned. This year the Coalition is in power, the boats have stopped, detention centres closed, the number of detained children has been cut to about 700 and it is still falling. To be clear: there were almost 2000 kids in detention just over a year ago, and it will be down to less than 300 within weeks….The new laws will see the humanitarian quota increase by 7500 so that, if the boats remain at bay, 18,750 places will be available for refugees selected, not by people-smugglers, but on the basis of need. Author: Chris Kenny.

  53. mars08

    In the article, John Lord mentions the ageless Christian ethical dilemma “Does the end justify the means”.

    It’s not such a quandary when you realise that the “end” is capturing the bogan vote in a few crucial seats…

  54. Bernie Masters

    Probably the best government that Australia has had in recent decades was the Hawke Keating Labor government of the 1980s. BUT they were only able to achieve their many positive outcomes for the nation because the Liberal-controlled Senate supported their important reforms. Fast forward to today and you have a Labor-controlled Senate that is obstructive and is more interested in attacking Abbott and his democratically elected Liberal government than in doing what is right for Australia and its people. If Labor was mature and responsible, it would sit down with the government and work out acceptable compromises on university fees, the RET scheme, asylum seeker policy and so on. By refusing to negotiate and compromise, Labor is forcing the government to do less than satisfactory deals with PUP and cross-bench senators, even if those deals are better than doing nothing. The only immorality at present is being displayed by Bill Shorten and the ALP.

  55. Bacchus

    you have a Labor-controlled Senate that is obstructive and is more interested in attacking Abbott and his democratically elected Liberal government than in doing what is right for Australia and its people. If Labor was mature and responsible, it would sit down with the government and work out acceptable compromises

    Just like the Liarbrils did for the last 6 years Bernie? 🙄

    Were you asleep between 2007 and 2013 Bernie? – there are none so blind as partisan right-whingers who believe everything that comes out of the mouths of the greatest liars we’re seen in parliament ever. Lies, what lies? Fingers firmly planted in ears, double pirate patches in place, singing ‘La, la, la, la, la – I can’t hear you! 😆

  56. Annie B

    @apmartin2014 ……….. your comment – December 7, 2014 at 6:18 pm

    Agree with everything in your post.

    …… >>>> ” we mustn’t lose heart. Not everyone is complacent or apathetic >>>>> ” ……..

    True – – – and we have to fight this lot – Being negative ( anywhere ) won’t cut it.

    ……. Well said apmartin2014 ….

  57. Bernie Masters

    Easy to be critical, Bacchus, but tell me what you would have done to solve the problem of queue jumping and drownings at sea that the Liberal govt inherited from Rudd/Gillard/Rudd?

  58. Bacchus

    * Drownings were a complex problem requiring complex solutions, starting at the source and intermediate points.
    * There was no queue to jump – that’s part of the problem.
    * Labor behaved reprehensively in this matter too, just not quite a badly as the current criminals.

    Now about what happened during the last six years – were you asleep? 🙄

  59. David

    Mr Masters perhaps you should do your sums again. I am unsure where you get ‘labor controlled Senate’ from? But then hey whats the odd drop of navel gazing to make dribble appear saliva? never bothered a Tory previously.

  60. Bernie Masters

    Bacchus, the queue was being jumped by asylum seekers who came her by boat from Indonesia since, once they had arrived in that country, they were safe from whatever was troubling them in their home countries. But you’ll have to remind me what happened during the last 6 years. I assume you’re referring to the 6 years of Rudd/Gillard/Rudd or are you talking about the last 6 years of the Howard govt?

    David, in the senate, Liberal + Labor = an absolute majority, so on issues of national importance, it’s not the cross-benchers or minor parties that should be scrutinised but Labor.

  61. David

    Mr Masters excuse me thats bullshite and you know it. You distinctly declared..”Labor-controlled Senate” Have the testicles to admit you are wrong difficult as it is for you barnacle encrusted Torys. No amount of jibber jabber will cover you.

  62. mars08

    In this case, the invitation to “work out acceptable compromises”… sounds like a request to negotiate with terrorists. Given how quickly, frequently and shamelessly promises have been broken… is that a good idea?

    Go f&%k yourself, Bernie Masters! You are a tool!

  63. Bernie Masters

    Isn’t it interesting that it seems almost impossible to have a reasoned, mature debate on the internet these days. David has chosen not to address the issue I raised – Labor could and should negotiate with the government and then PUP, Greens and cross-benchers become irrelevant – while mars08 resorts to swearing and personal abuse. Sad, really.

  64. David

    Masters until you accept and admit as expressed for all to see, you implied Labor has a Senate majority, which is a blatant lie, I suggest you go back to the right wing den of Abbott/ Morrison evil you usually reside in. You have shown, as we here all know what scurrilous, anti Australian filth you are.
    I wouldn’t give you another letter of the alphabet until you admit the lie. So until you find a spine, piss off sunshine.

  65. mars08

    Bernie… you are not going to change our minds… and we are not going to be able to convince you that you are wrong. It’s not sad… it’s just a fact. You don’t want a mature debate… you just want to spew your LNP talking points and assorted other bullshit. You’re not the victim here… you’re the shit-stirrer!

    So rather than wasting our time and yours with an illusion of “reasoned debate”… let’s just jump to the inescapable conclusion. That would be when someone asks you to “just f&%k off”

    Is that “reasoned” enough for you? You tosser!!

  66. Bacchus

    Oh dear! THE most negative opposition in Australia’s history (perhaps 1975 excepted) and this tosser wants to lecture us on how Labor should now just wave the fatally flawed legislation (most of which they lied about to get elected) through the senate! HYPOCRISY thy name is Liberal! 🙄

  67. Bacchus

    Perhaps “Bernie” can nominate all the legislation the Liberals negotiated with Labor to get passed over the last six years? No? I didn’t think so… 🙄

  68. mars08

    I’ve just read tha at least seven countries have put trade restrictions on Canadian poultry after a fifth farm in British Columbia was put in quarantine for avian influenza…

    And in other news… Bernie Masters is a chicken-shit liar…

  69. Bacchus

    Or better still, watch both series of http://www.sbs.com.au/goback/videos and then come back to talk about queues and how safe transit countries are. It could make a change to the mindless, ignorant regurgitating of Liberal talking points you assault us with now…

  70. abbienoiraude

    Why don’t those, (like Bernie) understand that there is a ‘choice’. A choice to buy passage for asylum from a poor overcrowded and desperate nation like Indonesia to a ( once) caring and compassionate nation like Australia. When a rich man boards his yacht and decides independently to sail the southern seas and gets into trouble, we as a nation ( and our navy and our maritime sailors) are bound to save this rich man’s life.
    When desperate people choosing to board a boat ( with payment) to sail for a safer, surer, more secure life we call them names. In International law we are bound to save lives if we can, no matter where…on the high seas or on our roads.
    The difference, BERNIE, is that when people set out from Indonesia, it is a private personal choice. When OUR Govt turn these people away, put then onto orange life boats, tow their sinking boats back to sea, or send them back to those who wish them harm we are taking their choice away from them. We are also going against the very laws we signed up for in the UN all those years ago.

    Choice is different from enforced imprisonment.

    We are party to terror for children, women and innocent men.
    We are a country, now, of mean and nasty selfish narcissists.
    When people seek asylum we are duty bound to offer succour and safety.

    When we refuse to do so we are at fault. We are petty, cruel and nasty humans who wish our fellow Man harm.

    If people drown whilst surfing, sailing or playing cricket it is their choice. If people drown trying to reach a safer and kind nation, it is their choice. If they die whilst in our ‘care’, in our detention centres, paid for by us, because of violence, desperate self harm or lack of medical care WE are to blame. We are failing in our duty of care.

    What part of ‘choice’ and ‘duty of care’ don’t you understand, ‘Bernie’???

    Are you being obtuse or are you just ignorant?
    Go talk to, listen to, learn, educate yourself about asylum, asylum seekers, refugees, the Convention, the UN and just plain morality and get back to me. OK?

  71. lawrencewinder

    Thank you, John Lord for that concise and accurate precis.
    What a bastard of a nation we have become. What a venal, selfish, intolerant and stupid people.
    We are now so without values that we are easy pickings for the next huxster.

  72. Kaye Lee

    More than half the population did not vote for the Coalition. Since they have come to power they have broken almost every promise they made. Why the hell would Labor abandon the people who voted for them by giving in to Tony’s lies? I most definitely do NOT want then to cave in on the RET or university deregulation. Tony promised they would not be touched. All voters should be outraged at being so deceived regardless of who they voted for.

    As for asylum seekers, both major parties will go down in infamy for their atrocious treatment of people needing our help. You carry on about 50,000 people over 6 years…this is miniscule…a trickle. We should be taking that many each year. We should have processing centres in transit countries and fly refugees here. This bullshit idea about some queue id dross for the mill…no queue exists. Other countries take the refugees that arrive on their shores but not us. We can cone up with every excuse under the sun to abrogate our responsibilities even to the extent of bribing corrupt officials from the poorest nations on earth to them off our hands, In a time of supposed budget emergency, Scott Morrison is paying Cambodia $40 million to take 4 or 5 refugees “on trial basis”. Gee that sounds sensible. About as sensible as temporarily resettling unaccompanied minors on Nauru whose locals are beating them up, putting them in hospital, and we have no deal for any permanent resettlement for them anywhere.

  73. kowkla123

    Alles Gute zum 2. Advent, KLaus

  74. Kaye Lee

    As many people have said….at what cost. If you must deter them by any means shooting them would be far cheaper and work better as a deterrant. How far are you prepared to go? Are we saying we refuse to help in a problem that we have contributed to? Let the rest of the world do it while we torture the few that get through the gunfire?

  75. Annie B

    @lawrencewinder. ,,,,

    No — I don’t think so. WE have not become a ‘bastard of a nation’. We were conned into voting for this horrific Government, by the players in the game, most of all Kevin Rudd – who no-one wanted AT ALL, and went to the polls to show just that. And so voted in the opposition, a decision we will all live to regret, especially in history – but certainly now. .

    WE – do not sit in Parliament ……. WE do not make up and tell the lies …….. WE do not devise a budget that is beyond comprehension, and is cruel in every respect ……… WE do not obfuscate, avoid questions, cancel appointments that might find us out ( Abbott and Lambie in recent days ) ……… WE do not stand in front of cameras and leer into the lens, while delivering rhetoric that is meaningless. WE do not deliver speeches that hurt, instil fear, and promote trepidation to the Australian people.

    WE – don’t do any of those things. ………. Unfortunately, after being hoodwinked into voting this vile mob into power, with a whole bunch of lies, we now bear the brunt of thinking how we can do something positive – to reverse our decisions – one way or another.

    Please don’t slam Australia ………. slam the bloody Government that is introducing this crap – for the world to see – and take it from there.

    As you can see from my comments here, WE must divorce ourselves from this vile and dangerous organisation of rogues who call themselves Government ……. and find some way to deal with it. Positively.

    With all due respect………

  76. Kaye Lee

    Every year our net immigration is 200,000 or more. Any humanitarian intake comes off this total. What is stopping us from accepting 50,000 refugees every year and 150 000 in the other immigration categories? Or has Gina already filled the immigration quota with exploited 457 visa workers?

    There’s my contribution to “mature debate”.

  77. DanDark

    “Concerns in Australia over ‘unauthorised boat’ or ‘irregular maritime’ arrivals (commonly referred to as ‘boat people’) have occupied successive governments since the first wave of boats arrived carrying people seeking asylum from the aftermath of the Vietnam War in 1976.[57] However, in terms of migration to Australia generally, boat arrivals have always been a very small cohort:

    …in the context of our migration program, the number of asylum seekers arriving by boat to Australia is very, very minor. It is less than 1.5 per cent of new migrants.[58]

    Although there has been a significant increase in boat arrivals in recent years (approximately 17 000 in 2012), comparisons show that the number of boat arrivals in Australia is small when compared to the flows of unauthorised arrivals in other parts of the world. For example, it is estimated that in 2006 over 72 000 persons and in 2007 over 51 000 persons arrived by boat on the coasts of Italy, Spain, Greece and Malta.[59] In 2011 there were 61 000 boat arrivals in Italy alone.[60]”


  78. Kaye Lee

    9-Sep-06 Unknown, Afghans, two females aged 6 and 9, and nine males All eleven victims murdered in their homes in Afghanistan by locals calling them ‘spies’, after being deported as a group from Australia


    Asylum seekers say they were raped and tortured after Australia sent them back to Sri Lanka


    Four unaccompanied boys living in the community on Nauru end up in hospital after assault on Sunday leaves one unconscious.


    I could continue giving links all night.

    Read about the people if you dare


  79. Helmut Harnischmacher

    Is there absolute Truth? Humans are all Mad in someway or another and potentially Bad ! It’s only a Matter of Degree? I have not met a Saint in my small Universe! Alle Menschen haben ein Stich! I am not the only one!

  80. CommonA

    Forgive me, I am new to this site… I will try not to project my opinions onto you.
    I understand you are all angry, frustrated and ashamed of our government, that came across quite clearly.

    What I am not sure I understand is why. So far I have:
    a) At the end of the 3 year protection period people could just be sent home with no trial (just an official opinion of “she’ll be right mate” – how Australian), and the fear is that this will be abused by power-hungry bureaucrats.
    b) The poor people in Nauru, who were not mentioned and presumably not covered by the benefits of this deal (and should be?)
    c) The tactics used to ram the legislation through the hostile media controlled senate.
    d) Some vague mention of torture, which I assume is referring to living under the threat that they could be returned home and not be allowed to stay permanently. (is there a quantification of how much worse it is when living in society as opposed to detention with other anxious people?)
    e) That there is some evidence that TPVs encouraged more people to come (on a statistical note if we could express it as a percentage then multiply it by the current rate of “zero”, would that be valid?)

    On two other notes:
    @abbienoiraude: I don’t think your analogy of maritime safety laws are 100% valid, as when we rescue some rich idiot at sea we send them back to where they came from, which is what you don’t want us to do to the refugees (I presume).

    I began posting under the name Andrew, and was falsely accused of being a politician (poli = many, tic = blood sucking parasite)… and I wondered if that was because my moniker was too common (hey I know of two other people living close to me that share the same first and last name as me)… so in order to avoid confusion I will from now on use CommonA on this site (pronounce it like commoner, with a lovely south-London accent, brilliant guv.)

  81. CommonA

    Kaye Lee – just reading the links now… (didn’t see them before I started my post)

  82. corvus boreus

    ‘Poli-tic’ would be ‘citizenry making involuntarily spasmodic muscle movements’.
    A ‘multitude of specimens of hematophagious ectoparasitic arachnids of the sub-class Acarina’ would be ‘poly-ticks’.

  83. CommonA

    Thanks corvus boreus… puts a new spin on the infamous Abbott wink

  84. Bacchus

    if we could express it as a percentage then multiply it by the current rate of “zero”

    Except it’s not zero CommonA – that’s just what this lying government tells us. You should know by now not to take them at their word…

    New policy will not stop the boats: UNHCR representative

    He [UNHCR representative in Indonesia, Thomas Vargas] also said Australia’s new policy of limiting the refugee intake from Indonesia would not stop boats.

    Mr Morrison last week announced Australia would limit its intake of refugees via the UN in Indonesia and refuse anyone who registered in Indonesia after June this year.

    Indonesia’s foreign ministry summoned the ambassador to let Australia know the announcement had “spoiled” the relationship.

    Mr Vargas said people were still getting on boats and Australia’s policies would not stop them.

    “It’s not going to solve the problem,” he said.

    “It may, in the short term, show some boats being stopped but these boats continue to leave from various places in the region and outside of the region.

    “This policy, a unilateral policy from any government is not going to stop it.”

    He said 100 asylum seeker boats had departed towards Australia since the start of the year.

    Last week an asylum seeker boat was found in Micronesia, from where the passengers and crew had hoped to reach Australia.

    So what’s happened to the people on those boats? Why won’t Mr Morrison tell us – he liked to scream at the top of his lungs at the arrival of every boat a year or so ago?

  85. Lee

    “If Labor was mature and responsible, it would sit down with the government and work out acceptable compromises on university fees, the RET scheme, asylum seeker policy and so on. By refusing to negotiate and compromise, Labor is forcing the government to do less than satisfactory deals with PUP and cross-bench senators, even if those deals are better than doing nothing.”

    Ahem! It was Tony Abbott who said he was never going to negotiate with anyone.

  86. Lee

    “More than half the population did not vote for the Coalition. ”

    I note with interest that conservatives blame poor people for being poor. If you’re faced with a bad situation it’s your own fault. So the LNP needs to accept responsibility for the election result. Even with the overwhelming bias of Merde-och to help them, they couldn’t do it. It is the LNP’s fault that they didn’t get enough votes to be able to govern without negotiating outside of their respective parties.

  87. DanDark

    I found this comment By Cleverdick1 on the guardian
    thought it was worth putting up here…

    “During the dying days of the last Labor government there was a move among some Liberals on Sydney’s Northern Beaches to deny Tony Abbott his chance to be Prime Minister by de-selecting him as candidate for his “blue ribbon” seat.
    Flying under the catchcry of “Anyone But Abbott”, those who could see the disaster ahead came up with the one three word slogan that could have saved us all a lot of time and trouble, by sidelining him before he got the chance to wreak his havoc.
    How the Liberal hierarchy must now be regretting letting him slip the noose!
    The problem now, of course, at the national level is that the LNP has almost “No-one But Abbott” to call on to get them out of their fix.
    Hockey’s not electable any more, they are unlikely to risk drafting Julie Bishop, Turnbull has done his dash over the ABC et al, and no-one in their right mind would let the appalling Morrison anywhere near the Lodge. Which, of course, makes him the most likely candidate!
    Can anyone imagine the panic now going on as all the odious ideologues contemplate the prospect of the parliamentary year ahead?
    The PPL backflip has just created even more uncertainty, the banks are crying foul over David Murray’s eminently sensible report, and when Hockey’s mid-term mini budget hits the deck there is likely to be total disarray.
    Just remember though, the adults are in charge. What a joke!”

  88. mysay

    Surely the way mnorrison secured this bill amounts to an act of terrorism,

  89. abbienoiraude

    CommonA; When we rescue some rich idiot we don’t ‘send them back from whence they came’, they are rescued by Air and Sea rescue, or the Navy or by Merchant shipping, we laud those rescuing them put him (nearly always a man) in a warm bed in a private hospital on the mainland, media swarm to interview him. He gets food, clothing, medicine and attention. He (most likely) gets money from selling his story and can hang around and go wherever he likes within Australia and usually flies back on an commercial aircraft to his own choice of destination. Sometimes we ask for them to repay costs, sometimes we don’t, depending on ‘what a hero’ he is painted or how rich he really is.

    We need to rescue those who put out to sea in desperation more than those who set out on a little adventure and end up in the Antarctic Ocean because of their own stupidity.

    I would prefer that they be flown here. Like Kaye Lee says; the numbers are miniscule and even if they weren’t they are our fellow beings in great and desperate need.

    (By the way Annie B; many people wanted Rudd {Gillard’s popularity was constantly at around 30 points}…but going over this over and over again, harms the future of the left, the Labor Party, and those of us who are vowed LNP destroyers!)

  90. Annie B

    @abbienoiraude ……….

    Perhaps you are right. My sweeping statement ‘no one wanted AT ALL’ was wrong … gotta be careful how to phrase things, in writing.

    I don’t have the exact figures as to who liked or disliked Kevin Rudd. …… I do know he was not popular when he played ‘Gotcha back’ …. by ousting Gillard ( as she had done to him earlier in their term ). And I had read on other political commentaries, that Rudd ‘ handed to the opposition, the Government win, on a platter ‘. ………. But then – that’s politics, and political commentary – which I went along with

    I will always wonder how the election might have gone, if Gillard had remained as PM to the end. ……… but we will never know. …. Although many would have their own ideas, to which they have a right.

    And hey – I too am an avid supporter of getting rid of the LNP – any which way we can. …… The sooner the better, too…….. I am hoping like many are – for some reason to bring on a DD.

  91. abbienoiraude

    Oh I just Googled, Annie B, something like ‘popularity of Rudd 2012’ or something. Fin Review gave a full and fair history of the whole sordid affair and included the tell tale involvement of Shorten and Albanese. (I like Anthony Albanese).
    It is a difficult read for it tells the tale of many splendid egos…but really in the end that does not matter…it is what/who does the best for the Australian people.
    Rudd was popular with we out here….deny it..meh! I don’t care…I care about Australia and am disappointed in all leaders and their Kowtowing to ‘interest groups’…(eg note in the Fin Review involvement of Israel).
    Off shore processing was awful, is awful….both of those leaders were WRONG, wrong, wrong.
    And that is what this piece is really all about.
    Now let’s get back to ridding Aust of these mongrels and forget about fighting about the past and two equally ambitious humans.

  92. Annie B

    @ abbiernoiraude …..


    ….. OK ! …. Fair enough !!

    ……… ” Rudd was popular with we out here….deny it..meh! I don’t care…” …….. I don’t quite get what you mean by that ?

    I did a bit of googling myself – seems like about 50/50 – from what I read. I tried 2012 and 2013.

    From other posts on other threads, seems that Shorten and at least 4 if not 5 others did the dirty deeds on Rudd / Gillard / Rudd … but as you pointed out – it IS the past

    But I do get the thrust of your message. …….

    the subject of this article points to immorality and cruelty, beyond comprehension.

  93. Peter Lee

    Mr Abbott or is that Rabbit and his fellow Minister Morrison have managed to “protect” us from the scourge of the most desperate people. How could anyone reasonably expect the people of one of the most prosperous countries on the globe to provide protection and a home for the persecuted foreigners of other lands.

  94. xiaoecho

    Are we on par with the NAZI’s yet? ….and no, I am not saying that flippantly. I mean it.

    This is year 1 of the Abbott regime. Two more years of increasing cruelty and persecution of the powerless to go. Next in line to be taught a thing or two, Australian citizens too vulnerable to fight back, welfare recipients, in particular disability pensioners with mental illness . Abuse NEVER diminishes, it only ever increases.

    As Howard proved, Australia needs a scapegoat.

    I only hope I live long enough to see Morrison at the Hague.

  95. Nikola Leka

    I agree with you that M thinks the end justifies the means, but, just what is the end”? Mayer in The Germans wrote “he gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security” Or let me ask another question: Are ‘the means’ really just a technique that is in the process of being perfected? I suppose this echoes xiaoecho’s comment

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