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Facebook

Fake News Story… Whoops, Unfortunately It’s Actually Real!

Recently, when I heard that there’d be an attempt to stop fake news stories from being circulated on Facebook, I thought: “Great, someone’s standing up to Fox News at last!” Sadly, that’s not the case. Apparently it’s the smaller “non-professional” outfits that’ll be banned, because until you’re actually paid to write lies, it’s somehow dishonest and immoral. Once you’re a professional it’s ok, because that’s what they pay you to write.

Of course, the obvious problem is satire. Will stories like “Donald Trump Announces That Harvard Will Be Renamed Trump University” be considered fake news or recognised as satire. Mind you, here in Oz ever since Abbott became Opposition Leader (the first time, not recently when Turnbull took over as PM) much of what I’ve written as satire has been pretty hard to distinguish from the truth. In fact, my satiric predictions are running about 45% which puts me ahead of most psychics and all serious political journalists. And now that the US has elected a man whose main claim to fame is as the star of a reality TV show, it makes one wonder whether Kanye West’s announcement that he intends to run for President may actually lead to a show where the Kardashians are in the Whitehouse.

Yep, we certainly have entered a world where it’s hard to tell what’s real any more. When I heard that Senator Culleton was calling for a jury in his case before the High Court, I had to wonder if Malcolm Roberts really was the most confused One Nation member, after all. The High Court is there to decide on matters of law; the idea that a jury should decide on a matter that’s gone to the High Court would be like asking the viewers to decide on whether a batsmen should be given out LBW. “What do you mean it hit him outside the line of leg stump and can’t be given out, I think that he should go because I don’t like Tasmanians.” Senator Culleton did end his press conference by assuring us that his psychologist wife had declared that he was both sane and a “machine” so we should have no worries about his capacity to represent himself.

However, probably the strangest thing I heard in the past year was Donald Trump’s reaction to Alec Baldwin’s Saturday Night Live send-up. Baldwin started by having his Trump caricature ask “Google, what is ISIS?”, which clearly identified it as a satire because it’s clear Trump wouldn’t have any need to ask a question given his expertise on just about everything. And, if he did feel the need to ask, he wouldn’t realise that Google can respond to questions. Nonetheless, Trump was apparently watching because he tweeted:

trump-reaction

“I watched parts of … Saturday Night Live last night. It is a totally one-sided, biased show – nothing funny at all. Equal time for us?”

Now, given that SNL is a comedy show which holds people up to ridicule it makes one wonder exactly what Trump was asking for in his suggestion about equal time. While it’s certainly true that once Trump was a clown who could have been requesting equal time to suggest that he would be funnier, now that he’s President-elect, the joke’s over and nobody would be laughing if he showed that he’s even more ridiculous than Baldwin was suggesting.

On the other hand, did he want equal time to tell us all that he knew what ISIS is and none of the things that he was being ridiculed for were true? If that’s the case, does this mean that he’s going to spend his entire time as POTUS attempting to explain exactly where the satirists have got it wrong. This would hardly leave him any time to actually fulfil his presidential duties. Not that that’s a bad thing, but it would certainly be without precedent. But I guess that’s what the Donald is known for: doing the unexpected. “I am running for re-election in 2020 with the intention of attempting to do the things I promised but have been unable to do because of my busy schedule responding to all the comedians making fun of me. Please give me four more years so that I can finish what I intended to start with my first term.”

Then again, maybe he’ll just announce that satire comes under the category of fake news and like all the other fake news sites needs to be shut down, because it seems that his supporters can’t tell the difference.

 

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  1. keerti

    Suggest it’s the best thingto do to get rid of the clown is to laugh at him! The laugh at trump movenent could become a worldwide phenomina

  2. Kaye Lee

    Satire: “Donald Trump Announces That Harvard Will Be Renamed Trump University”

    Truth: 1. “US President-elect Donald Trump has agreed to a $34 million settlement to resolve three lawsuits over Trump University, his former school for real estate investors.

    The deal, announced by New York State Attorney-General Eric Schneiderman, will settle a lawsuit he filed three years ago, plus two class-actions filed in California on behalf of former Trump University students.

    “Today’s [$34 million] settlement agreement is a stunning reversal by Donald Trump and a major victory for the over 6,000 victims of his fraudulent university,” Mr Schneiderman said in a statement.

    “Donald Trump fought us every step of the way, filing baseless charges and fruitless appeals and refusing to settle for even modest amounts of compensation for the victims of his phony university. Today, that all changes.”

    Mr Schneiderman said the $34 million to be paid by Mr Trump or one of his business entities included restitution for victims and more than $1.3 million in penalties to the state.

    The suits alleged that Trump University failed to deliver on its promise to teach success in real estate through programs that cost about $38,000.

    They said the program misled students by calling itself a university when it was not an accredited school and by saying that Mr Trump “hand-picked” instructors.

    2. New Jersey real estate developer Charles Kushner had pledged $2.5m to Harvard University not long before his son Jared was admitted to the prestigious Ivy League school

    “There was no way anybody in the administrative office of the school thought he would on the merits get into Harvard,’’ a former official at the Frisch school in Paramus, New Jersey, told me. “His GPA [grade point average] did not warrant it, his SAT scores did not warrant it. We thought, for sure, there was no way this was going to happen. Then, lo and behold, Jared was accepted. It was a little bit disappointing because there were at the time other kids we thought should really get in on the merits, and they did not.’’

    This is Trump’s son-in-law and “hand-picked” closest adviser who will apparently join him in the White House despite laws about nepotism.

  3. mark delmege

    I thought the snow flakes on the Democrat side were the main ones complaining about fake news. But hell we get it all the time. White Helmets on the ABC is a first class example of fake news aka propaganda.
    But don’t let details get in the way of a good story.

  4. Miriam English

    Oh, Rossleigh, it’s much worse than that. Fake news is a very real thing and far more insidious than Fox.

    Here is a piece about a guy who makes a living by making up controversial fake news:
    http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/11/17/1600808/-Fake-news-writer-says-he-put-Trump-in-White-House-because-nobody-fact-checks-anything-anymore

    The world has kinda gone lie-crazy. The USA has a new president who lies outrageously all the time. The Republicans have been making up fake facts for decades. The Democrats have been caught lying about Bernie and Jill Stein too. All over the world fossil fuel companies have been churning out lies against global warming for decades, with people just lapping up the bullshit. Over here we had compulsive liar Tony Abbott and a cabinet of serial liars, from Greg Hunt the secret Minister for Mining pretending to be the Environment Minister, to Corey Bernardi lying his pointy little microcephalic head off about the Safe Schools program. Labor has dirty hands too, with their lies about the changes to the voting system. The Catholic and other churches still lie constantly about covering up molesting children. The banks and money managers and credit ratings agencies spun an astonishing web of lies and corruption which unhinged the world’s economy. Advertisers on TV and in magazines and newspapers blatantly lie and manipulate so much we barely see it anymore.

    Lies have become the new fashion. It has been building to this over decades.

  5. Trish Corry

    I am a member of an Facebook political satire group and since Trump, one poster has a theme going with #NotSatire.

    On another note, I think all the real journalists died when Jana Wendt retired.

    The SNL skit was so good and Baldwin does a good job. Whoever is doing his campaign manager is a crack up.

    My favourite satirical character will forever remain to be Casper Jonquil. The living breathing version of every online right wing nutjob come to life.

    The USA Presidential Campaign was so bizarre, I seriously hope it never gets to that level here.

  6. mark delmege

    I’ve called him names but he is set to surprise. Don’t be binary thinkers – is my advice. He will also do some good along the way. Shake them up and its what we want. Some entertainment and spectacle.
    Trump destroys media stars face to face in his golden tower

    Trump destroys media stars face to face in his golden tower
    by Jon Rappoport
    It was instant legend.
    Trump met yesterday with the rancid cream of media in his golden tower. They were there thinking it was all about creating a structure for access to the next president. Little did they know.
    Charlie Rose was there. Wolf Blitzer. Jeff Zucker, head of CNN. Martha “I weep for Hillary” Raddatz. Gayle King. Lester “the weasel-king of interrupters” Holt. Chuck Todd. George “property of the Clintons” Stephanopoulos.
    Fake, fake, fake, fake, fake.
    The whole gang.
    The NY Post has the story:
    “It was like a f-ing firing squad,” one source said of the encounter.
    “Trump started with [CNN chief] Jeff Zucker and said ‘I hate your network, everyone at CNN is a liar and you should be ashamed,’ ” the source said.
    “The meeting was a total disaster. The TV execs and anchors went in there thinking they would be discussing the access they would get to the Trump administration, but instead they got a Trump-style dressing down,” the source added.
    “Trump kept saying, ‘We’re in a room of liars, the deceitful dishonest media who got it all wrong.’ He addressed everyone in the room calling the media dishonest, deceitful liars. He called out Jeff Zucker by name and said everyone at CNN was a liar, and CNN was [a] network of liars,” the source said.
    “…he referred to a horrible network correspondent who cried when Hillary lost who [also] hosted a [presidential] debate – which was Martha Raddatz who was also in the room.”
    So…You can hate Trump, but if you can’t find joy in this story, you’re in need of a blood transfusion.
    Way back at the beginning of the presidential campaign, I said that if Trump does nothing but run against the media he’ll be doing the country a great service, because they’re all snakes and cover-up artists and liars and they’ve been hypnotizing the population for as long as they’ve been around. Trump went on to exceed my expectations in that regard.
    If you can’t stand Trump, you can fantasize about some other theoretical president who might have carried off his attacks on fake news as well, and with the same effect, but this is the man who did it. And yesterday was a landmark event in history.
    Understand that these grifters—because that’s what they are—believe they own the news and the truth, even as they’re making it up by the ton. They and their masters—six companies that control 90% of big media—dispense fake reality to the populace 24/7. And now…
    They’re lost inside their own bubble. They’ve never felt this kind of fury from a president. They don’t know what to do.
    They’ve got money, they’ve got arrogance, and they’ve got the airwaves, and it’s not enough.
    Of course they’re outraged, and of course they’ll continue doing whatever they can to undermine Trump, but they know he couldn’t care less that they’re deeply, deeply offended. Their little trick—“how dare you insult us”—won’t work. In fact, it’ll make things worse for them. Not long ago, one survey placed the public’s trust in media at 6%, which is about on the same level as the trust in public bathrooms in scuzzy bars by the railroad tracks next to mining camps in the 19th century.
    These media honkers can stand in front of their mirrors and keep combing their hair and they can bring in new make-up people, and adjust the studio lighting and build new desks, and they can laugh and smile at cocktail parties and pretend they’re still in the ascendance, but they’re rapidly turning into laughingstocks, and the derision keeps building. If you feel sorry for them, your sympathy is grossly misplaced.
    The final straw here is Steve Bannon, Trump’s new chief strategist and special counselor. The editor of Breitbart, Bannon recently stated in an interview: “The media bubble is the ultimate symbol of what’s wrong with this country. It’s just a circle of people talking to themselves who have no f-ing idea what’s going on. If The New York Times didn’t exist, CNN and MSNBC would be a test pattern. The Huffington Post and everything else is predicated on The New York Times. It’s a closed circle of information from which Hillary Clinton got all her information – and her confidence. That was our opening.”
    Trump is carrying out a sustained war against big media. He hasn’t stopped. There is no sign he will stop. He knows, and Bannon knows, that the public is fed up with mainstream media.
    The unchallenged authority of The News has been cracked like an egg.
    Yesterday, Trump doubled and tripled down.
    Wake up and smell the singed hair and the sagging plastic surgery. The media stars are fading in their fake sky.

  7. Miriam English

    Mark, trouble is, he’s attacked the half-crazy news and is boosting the completely-crazy news.

    If he’d given them a shakeup, and pointed out Fox as the bullshitters they are, and told the media he was going to bring in truth in media laws like Canada has then it might be another thing, but he didn’t. He was just out to vengefully attack the progressive media who have some remaining conscience, and basically told them to give up their remnant sanity and go full delusion.

    Bannonn is a straight-out lunatic who believes all manner of crazy conspiracy theories.

    Yeah, this is going to end well. [sarcasm]So much to enjoy.[/sarcasm]

  8. Michael Taylor

    Well surprise surprise. Trump won’t be jailing Hillary Clinton, and his most fervent supporters are up in arms over it:

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/donald-trump-wont-pursue-charges-against-hillary-clinton-report/news-story/a21f207965b49e78a293019888169f65

    I listened to an interview with Trump last night when he was asked the question about jailing Clinton. In his answer he said the Clintons “are nice people”. Who would have thunk?

  9. Kaye Lee

    Trump wasn’t lambasting them for being dishonest or inaccurate about news at all. He was yelling at them for their failure to support his campaign and to hail him as the likely winner. It’s all about Trump.

    As for wanting them all to be honest….

    Trump also defended Breitbart (Bannon’s former gig)

    “Breitbart is just a publication,” Trump said, according to Mike Grynbaum, another Times reporter present at the meeting. “They cover stories like you cover stories. They are certainly a much more conservative paper, to put it mildly, than The New York Times. But Breitbart really is a news organization that has become quite successful. It’s got readers, and it does cover subjects on the right, but it covers subjects on the left, also. It’s a pretty big thing.”

    mark, if you really think Donald is into fact-checking, I think you will be sadly disappointed. He is into Trump advertising and nothing else.

  10. Harquebus

    In regards to Trump not proceeding with his special prosecutor in the Clinton email controversy.
    It is another piece of evidence to support my view that, the security services and authorities of the Five Eyes consortium have the goods on all of our politicians and dictate policy on behalf of the global elite.
    Cheers.

  11. Michael Taylor

    H’, it has long been alleged that America is run by a government within the government in America. I think the term they use is ‘black government’.

  12. Michael Taylor

    Or is it ‘dark government’? One or the other.

  13. helvityni

    Many Aussie/ Anglo things baffle me, too many issues are made complicated for no reason at all…

    I finally understand why I’m so confused: I never bothered to find out how the game of cricket works: therein lies the key…

    Huge lengths in architecture and building business are measured in MILLIMETERS…

  14. Harquebus

    Michael Taylor
    I hadn’t heard that term before. Thanks.

    Search criteria: deep state.

    mark delmege
    Thanks for that article. I have located the original.

    Cheers.

  15. Michael Taylor

    H’, I also heard that in America there are something like 17 security classifications above that given to the president. There are things not even the president is allowed to know.

    When Jimmy Carter was president he approached the director of the CIA (George Bush Snr) and asked to know what was going on with aliens (of the flying saucer variety). Bush responded, “Mr President, that is of a need-to-know basis, and you don’t need to know”.

  16. Miriam English

    H, nah. It just means Trump a lying moron who will say whatever gets a rise out of people. He was whipping people up into a frenzy, so he said what would work the best at the time. He had no thought for actually doing anything.

    Trump isn’t about consequences. He is about the moment. F*ck the future.

    Before the campaign he had only the best things to say about the Clintons. The moment has passed so he likes the Clintons again (they’re rich and white).

  17. Harquebus

    Michael Taylor
    Thanks.
    If you see flying saucers and they are riveted like modern planes, they are man made.

    Miriam English
    We may be in for some interesting times.
    I have overlooked your little “best things” mistake. The type of which I also often make.

    Cheers.

  18. Miriam English

    I’m not kidding, I’m not making a mistake. He used to say only the nicest things about the Clintons, and especially Hillary, before. I’d dig up the videos I’ve seen of him talking about the Clintons, and particularly Hillary, from before the whole campaign crap, but I kinda couldn’t be bothered; you won’t be swayed from your conspiracies anyway.

  19. Michael Taylor

    A lot of them are, H’. But not the ones I’ve seen (yes, I’m opening myself to ridicule).

  20. Michael Taylor

    Miriam, weren’t the Clintons guests at Trump’s last wedding? I understand too that Ivanka Trump is great friends with Chelsea Clinton.

    And a further one: one of Trump’s daughters recently went on a cruise holiday with Putin’s daughter.

  21. Harquebus

    Miriam English
    Sorry. Now I get you. My mistake.

    Michael Taylor
    I have recently had a conversation about this. More than a few, myself included, have seen strange things in the sky.
    Here is something that I came across yesterday.

    “Is Civilisation just a terraforming system?
    Was Eden just a dim but rose tinted memory of tribal/nomadic life before the rat race of civilisation?
    And are Ancient Aliens due back any day to see how the terraforming, they set in motion in ancient Sumer, (in this case global warming) is going?”

    Cheers.

  22. mark delmege

    ‘He was just out to vengefully attack the progressive media who have some remaining conscience’
    Miriam, you are joking – right?

  23. Michael Taylor

    H’, I think it was called transpermia, and the one you are talking about is referred to as DNA manipulation.

    Interesting that you mentioned climate change. The original ‘The day the earth stood still’ had Michael Rennie coming to warn us about the dangers of nuclear annihilation. The remake had Keanu Reeves coming to warn us about the dangers of climate change.

    Most of us don’t need aliens warning us about those dangers.

    What will the next remake warn us of? Donald Trump?

  24. mark delmege

    Harquebus I don’t think the President has the right to determine what the FBI does. Or is the system that rotten?
    I also have videos – of what Obama said about Clinton when they were running against each other.

    I also have beans … piles of them – not worth a pinch of shit.

  25. Harquebus

    Michael Taylor
    I omitted this bit from the beginning.

    “Is Civilisation just a terraforming system handed to us by Ancient Aliens, who liked the look of earth but thought it was too cold? [Dark Humour]”

    mark delmege
    I agree but, the opposite also applies. The FBI and other services do not have the right to tell the president what to do which, I have a feeling is what is happening.

    Cheers.

  26. Kyran

    We did some funny stuff, back in the 70’s. We had ‘Horror Movie’s’.

    The public’s waitin’
    For the killin’ and the hatin’
    Switch on the station, oh yeah
    They do a lotta sellin’
    Between the firin’ and the yellin’
    And you believe in what they’re tellin’, oh yeah

    It’s a horror movie right there on my TV
    Horror movie right there on my TV
    Horror movie and it’s blown a fuse
    Horror movie, it’s the six-thirty news

    We had the chariots of the gods, trying to link one imaginary friend in the sky to another imaginary friend in the sky.
    Parody and satire. The resemblance to the 6.30 news is unavoidable.
    The One Notion party implosion is reminiscent of their previous implosion. Inmates running the asylum has never been a good business management model. The ‘real’ Pauline? Have a look at the Pauline Pantsdown facebook page. It is both hilarious and terrifying.
    Simon Hunt is contemplating the return of Pauline Pantsdown. He has placed an incredibly important caveat on his deliberation.
    “I always have to go with that idea of whether I am raising her stakes. Who are her supporters this time round, and am I helping her cause by satirising her?” Hunt said.
    Rory O’Neill was an advocate of marriage equality in Ireland. His alter-ego,’Panti Bliss’, was far more effective. I guess it’s like the power of Barry Humphries versus the power of Dame Edna.
    Just on that marriage equality thing, Tiernan Brady was in Australia in May. He was the director of the ‘Irish Yes Equality Campaign’ and, as far as I know, he’s still here. Hopefully, not on a 457. ‘Dissident’ is probably not one of the qualifying employment criteria anyway.
    “One of the campaign’s viral successes was its advert “Sinead’s hand”. In the video, a man is seen going door-to-door asking everyone he sees if he can marry his girlfriend.
    It was an absurd notion to ask a whole nation if one person could marry, but that was exactly the situation gay people were in with the referendum on marriage equality.”
    We are now in another dimension. The difference between ‘real’ news, ‘fake’ news, satire and parody can only be measured by a micrometer.
    Thank you, Mr Brisbane. Take care

  27. Zathras

    We’ve experienced all this right here before – at every Federal election.

    However the Abbott campaign promises were in the Trump category – inflammatory, fear-mongering and playing directly to the emotional voter.

    Cross him with the fake bravado and mystical wealth of Clive Palmer and you get Trump.

    Nothing to see here (yet). Wait until the show really starts.

    Move along…

  28. Jack

    You all sound like you think the world would be better off if clinton was the next president.

  29. Miriam English

    Jack, the world would be better off if a goddamn homeless wino was president of USA instead of Trump. It would even be better if my dog was president. Trump is a massive disaster. Have you seen the Nazis he is choosing for his cabinet and advisors?

    Yes, it would have been better if Hillary had become the next USA president. Of course it would.

    Would it have been ideal? No. But it would have been much, much better to have someone who is not a racist, misogynist, homophobic xenophobe in power. Hillary at least spent many decades helping the poorest people in the world, instead of ripping them off like Trump.

  30. mark delmege

    The deplorables the uneducated and the rest of the Trump voters have done the world a favour. They have put into Government President Trump who will end the US/Muslim Brotherhood alliance.
    The so called lefties, snow flakes, the educated and Obama supporters were wrong in backing Hillary.

    They were blind – they still are – to the crimes of Empire under the Black Prince. They were more interested in identity politics and rights of LGBT Q at home and ignored the extraordinary criminal assaults perpetrated by Empire in the Middle East and elsewhere.

    They still call out Trump as a racist, homophone degenerate. They are still howling from the roof top me me me me me.

    Yeah you you f*cking idiots – you stupid blind binary thinkers who cant see shit for clay. Your quietness, selective vision and failure to criticise your mob has plunged country after country into darkness. Your POTUS created the waves of refugees into Europe and the terrorists attacks around the world. The failures of your hero has promoted the advance of right wing governments throughout Europe. His policies created the environment for Brexit and here the rise of people like Hanson.

    Your selective vision is essentially racist, pro imperialist and wrong on almost every level of decency.
    Wake the f*ck up.

  31. Jack

    Thanks for the confirmation Miriam.
    ” Hillary at least spent many decades helping the poorest people in the world, ”

    hey! wanna buy a bridge?

    https://www.google.com.au/#q=clinton+crimes

  32. Kaye Lee

    “the crimes of Empire under the Black Prince” – not that you are prone to hysterical hyperbole or anything.

    “They still call out Trump as a racist, homophone degenerate.” – and may it never end. The standards you walk past are the standards you accept.

    “Your POTUS created the waves of refugees into Europe and the terrorists attacks around the world.” – single-handedly?

    I know you think Assad is a saviour of the people. The Syrians he is bombing and starving don’t necessarily agree with you. They also have to contend with a bunch of marauding foreign teenagers looking for a real life War of the Worlds. I would look back at the Sykes-Picot agreement as being instrumental in starting problems. I would look at the arms manufacturers who exert so much political power – they aren’t all American either.

    To lay all the blame at the feet of Obama gives the real bad guys a free rein.

    You think Putin is a good guy?

    “The Kremlin’s crackdown on civil society, media, and the Internet took a more sinister turn in 2015 as the government further intensified harassment and persecution of independent critics. For the fourth year in a row, parliament adopted laws and authorities engaged in repressive practices that increasingly isolated the country. Against the backdrop of the armed conflict in eastern Ukraine and sanctions against Russia over Crimea, anti-Western hysteria has been at its peak since the end of the Cold War.”

    Do you ever wonder if you are being influenced by misinformation mark?

  33. Harquebus

    It’s not just the “fake news” that we need to be concerned about, there is also the “no news”.

    Search criteria: obama kill list

  34. mark delmege

    KL Your ‘establishment’ views on Eastern Europe and the ME and North Africa is exactly the sort of opinion I am calling out.

  35. Kaye Lee

    What would those establishment views be exactly mark?

    Do you think the Sykes-Picot agreement is irrelevant?

    What do you think of Canada selling arms to Saudi-Arabia?

    Why do you think Putin amended Russia’s official list of classified information to include information on military losses during peacetime and “special operations”?

    How do you feel about the treatment of Salafi Muslims in Dagestan?

    What do you think should be done about the 640,000 people living under long-term siege in Syria?

    Do you think Boko Haram are freedom fighters?

    So many questions.

  36. Miriam English

    Amazing, mark delmege. I spent some time this morning trying to compose a plea to a friend about self control, arguing that emotions are important, but being set adrift and blown any which way by them is not a good thing for civilisation. Self control is what gives humans, with our amazing frontal lobes, an ability to work together. It lubricates society. Without it we give in to the racism and rampant emotionalism, the lynch-mob mentality of people like Trump.

    And then you return with your comment. You really make my point for me.

    You think Trump and his ilk will end the worst of the Islamic religion? Really? I think you’ll find they’ll strengthen the fanatics in their resolve. Religion loves nothing more than a good holy war. Trump will deliver more of the injustices they thrive on. After years of being invaded and ripped off by Bush, and drone attacks by Obama, just what do you think they’ll feel when they see their brothers being victimised by Trump?

    You call people like me “stupid blind binary thinkers”, but you appear to ignore Trump’s hateful diatribes and characterise people as simply for or against on very superficial impulses. It looks to me that you’re the one being simplistic and binary.

    Please clam down Mark, look around you, and carefully examine the poison you are feeding your mind with.

  37. mark delmege

    It was an early morning rant – maybe I should have dropped a few words and checked my spelling etc but basically thats what I think. Just to explain further…I’m suggesting Empire chose a policy of ‘creative destruction’ against secular nationalist countries (Syria Libya for eg) using terrorist groups such as al Qaeda IS and others to redraw the borders and political framework with a view to install more compliant regimes under their influence. Muslim Brotherhood types were the chosen partners in this failed venture. Along the way two countries have been destroyed in an orgy of violence fed by US France UK Turkey Qatar Saudi Arabia. With millions of people fleeing is haste. The social impact in Europe has led to fear and loathing and the rise of rightwing political opponents there.
    This happened with Obama at the helm. At every twist his government chose regime change in favor of the radical fundamentalists – the backward thinking, head choppers, those who treat their women in ways we find uncomfortable and ethnic cleansers. These were the partners in crime.
    This project also had the support of Israel who is happy to fracture the Muslim world to ensure the expansion of their settler project.
    Trump for all his other faults seems to be saying this project is over.

  38. Kaye Lee

    TRUMP: “Somebody hits us within ISIS — you wouldn`t fight back with a nuke?….Why do we make them?”

    HALPERIN: But you’re — so you would — you would rule in the possibility of using, right, nuclear weapons against ISIS?

    TRUMP: Well, I’m never going to rule anything out.

    TRUMP: ” Europe is a big place. I’m not going to take cards off the table. We have nuclear capability. Now, our capability is going down rapidly because of what we’re doing. It’s in bad shape. The equipment is not properly maintained. There are all lot of talk about that. And that’s a bad thing not a good thing. The last person to use nuclear would be Donald Trump. That’s the way I feel. I think it is a horrible thing. The thought of it is horrible. But I don’t want to take anything off the table. We have to negotiate. There will be times maybe when we’re going to be in a very deep, very difficult, very horrible negotiation. The last person — I’m not going to take it off the table. And I said it yesterday. And I stay with it.”

  39. Michael Taylor

    In other words, Kaye, he has no idea what he’s talking about.

  40. Kaye Lee

    Listening to him speak is humiliating in fact Michael. Anyone who is pinning their hopes on Trump being a saviour of any description is going to be sorely disappointed. The man is hugely out of his depth, thrust into a job where his normal MO just won’t cut it. And there is no off-ratings season to kick back and grope some good looking babes – oh wait, that didn’t stop Clinton, or Jamie Briggs for that matter.

    Perhaps if our world leaders would stop groping women (or farmyard animals – the English are a strange bunch) we could start thinking about Malcolm’s ad campaign to teach our sons better.

  41. Harquebus

    “He wrote one fake story for NationalReport.net about how customers in Colorado marijuana shops were using food stamps to buy pot.
    “What that turned into was a state representative in the House in Colorado proposing actual legislation to prevent people from using their food stamps to buy marijuana based on something that had just never happened,” Coler says.”
    http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/23/503146770/npr-finds-the-head-of-a-covert-fake-news-operation-in-the-suburbs

  42. mark delmege

    Yes H, Europe (elites) is falling into a cesspit. They have gone back to cold war thinking. Their coups (eg Kiev) and covert wars (Libya and Syria) and open wars in places like Afghanistan and Yemen have become complete unmitigated disasters and somehow they think they can hide the truth through censorship.

  43. Kaye Lee

    Gee why does that not surprise me. A question…. do either of you think that Russia engages in disinformation? Do either of you think that Assad has committed atrocities against Syrian citizens?

  44. Harquebus

    Kaye Lee
    Yes and yes.
    What is the purpose of the question?
    Cheers.

  45. Kaye Lee

    No hidden purpose H.

  46. randalstella

    ‘Yes and yes’ is all you have to say? That easy is it?
    So,then back to the pet theories.
    How are your pet theories immune from ‘Yes and yes’? By replying ‘yes and yes’ quickly, your pet theories will not be upset?
    Again, you have a psychology, not a debatable position.

  47. mark delmege

    You could be a little more circumspect in how you judge others KL. Suggesting people are dupes of Russia for their views is both insulting and ignorant. A lot of these people survive on zilch or petty donations from people like me. They don’t receive appearance money like many on the MSM. They don’t have fancy computers or connections or receive lavish stipends from governments or corporations. They are not professional careerists whose longevity depends on meeting the ideological parameters of their editors funders etc. Like you they are prolific writers about things that concern them. Many have been doing this for decades and have a depth of understanding in their chosen fields that you will never have ever – or ever get from a quick google to your favorite main stream sources.
    A lot of them do what they do because their views are not tolerated in be the narrow constructs of the MSM. They are not heroes but they are decent people trying to interpret what they see and sharing that knowledge as best they can.

    As for Syria you have shown no understanding of events there and no historical perspective. It would be a waste of my time trying even to explain things.

  48. Miriam English

    mark delmege, that was a weird, long-winded way to say absolutely nothing at all while trying to put Kaye down. Very odd.

  49. randalstella

    “a little more circumspect in how you judge others”: you mean cautious and restrained like you?
    For the love of the leaping Jesus there’s not a pharmaceutical that could touch it.

  50. Matters Not

    Yes it’s pile on time! Debate is over. Nothing more to see. Denigration all round. FGS.

  51. Michael Taylor

    “a little more circumspect in how you judge others”: you mean cautious and restrained like you?

    I’ll pay that, randalstella. Loved it.

  52. Matters Not

    As a matter of interest:

    then back to the pet theories. … your pet theories immune from … your pet theories will not be upset

    Stella, how is it possible to generate ‘knowledge’ without a ‘theory’? And having done so, how is it possible to give meaning(s) that isn’t rooted in the theory you begin with?

    Be interested in either your ‘theoretical’ or ‘non-theoretical’ answer.

    But take your time. I suspect you’ll need it.

  53. randalstella

    Not,
    Your supercilious half-arsed quasi-philosophical pretences would be embarrassing if they were not so tedious.

    I don’t need your addled version of a Phil 1A primer, thanks just the same – on empiricism, positivism, theory and fact etc.
    Stated by you, it is just drivel, an excuse for any fantasy.

    I can test the pet theories of Putin and Assad supporters against the numbers of dead bodies.

    Please don’t try it again on me. I won’t be so polite next time.

    Now shove off, kindly.

  54. mark delmege

    But I’ll tell you this.

    Most of what the MSM report about Syria is a myth or lie. We’ve been told for yonks about the 250,000 innocent civilians huddled hiding from bombs in East Aleppo. Its not true.
    They talk about the moderate FSA – another lie. There is nothing moderate about head choppers or terrorist who bomb and kill civilians in West Aleppo.
    They rarely talk about al qaeda in East Aleppo or any of the other fundamental armed gangs holding civilians hostage or as cover as human shields and who use food as weapons or hospitals as cover for their snipers or other attacks.
    They dont talk about how top american strategists used al qaeda like gangs to destabilise the Syrian govt in their quest for regime change.
    In fact there are not many people left in East Aleppo. They fled long ago and many that are still escaping welcome their new found freedom.

    No doubt the bullshitters in the media will spin it differently.

  55. Kaye Lee

    In one breath you say there aren’t people trapped in Aleppo and in the next you say civilians are being held hostage. I think I will believe what MSF says on this front mark.

  56. mark delmege

    I’ve fact checked some of the alleged reports coming from alleged MSF sources and they didn’t stand up. Has it occurred to you that if MSF were actually still in Aleppo whatever they say might say may well be compromised and their lives depend it.

  57. Harquebus

    randalstella
    What are you on about? I was asked questions and I answered them.

    Just to keep you satisfied, my pet theory is nearly always the same. Too many people when not enough resources.

    “Farmers who have escaped the battle-torn nation explain how drought and government abuse have driven social violence”
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ominous-story-of-syria-climate-refugees/

    Search criteria: Syria drought

    Cheers.

  58. Kaye Lee

    mark, I don’t trust your fact checking. Are you aware that the Syrian government have banned MSF from operating in Syria?

  59. mark delmege

    No but they have thousands of their own doctors in places like Aleppo they dont need them there and given that they have been used for propaganda purposes I’m not surprised. There are civilians also suffering in places like Yemen from US (and UK) supplied weapons and of course also in IS parts of Iraq. No White helmets there and no western journalists speaking up for them either. Now why would that be?
    IS only came on the scene in a serious way when the US was denied SOFA protection in Iraq. Now they are being attacked by a bevy of forces – do you think the civilians will fair any better there or does it not concern you because Russia is not in the forefront?
    Civilians suffer in all wars you only have to look at the deformed babies from Fallujah probably as a result of the use of so called and very toxic depleted uranium (by guess who). Separating civilians from the fighters is never easy but victory requires winners and losers and even you I doubt would want to see al qaeda (and similar) strongholds in Syria. I doubt you have any real idea what lengths the Syrian govt has gone to save Syrian lives in rebel areas. The Syrian government – as in parliament – like its army is multi denominational – but dominated by Sunni’s. They dont want to kill their own but war is war and when the gates of hell are kicked open by thousands of western backed crazies bad things will happen – you can count of it.

  60. Kaye Lee

    “I doubt you have any real idea what lengths the Syrian govt has gone to save Syrian lives in rebel areas.”

    I don’t believe that mark. They have besieged people and will not let aid convoys through. They appear to be purposely targeting medical facilities.

    Yemen is indeed a tragedy but, once again, it isn’t just the US which sells arms to the Saudis.

    China and Saudi Arabia’s Burgeoning Defense Ties

    http://thediplomat.com/2016/11/china-and-saudi-arabias-burgeoning-defense-ties/

    France: Saudi Arabia’s New Arms Dealer

    http://nationalinterest.org/feature/france-saudi-arabias-new-arms-dealer-13533

    Russia and Saudi Arabia Reach $10 Billion Arms Deal

    http://www.uawire.org/news/russia-and-saudi-arabia-reach-10-billion-arms-deal

    Canadian government ‘lied’ over $12bn arms sale to Saudi Arabia

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/13/canadian-government-lied-over-12bn-arms-sale-to-saudi-arabia

    Theresa May has staunchly defended selling arms to Saudi Arabia despite the country facing accusations of war crimes, insisting close ties “keep people on the streets of Britain safe”.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/arms-sales-saudi-arabia-theresa-may-staunch-defence-keep-people-streets-britain-safe-a7230836.html

    And on another front…..

    Japan’s SoftBank teams up with… Saudi Arabia to launch $100bn London tech fund

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/10/14/softbank_and_saudi_arabia_to_launch_100bn_tech_fund_from_london/

    It seems anyone will deal with the Saudis because they have a shit load of money

  61. mark delmege

    Well thanks KL for the opportunity and that the discussion has enlighten a few readers about Syria. You are welcome to the last word. But in the end it doesn’t really matter what we think The Syrian People will decide their future hopefully sooner rather than later – not us. (I don’t remember how we got onto this page I preferred the other one ‘The Truth – Where Did It Go?’ so I might repost this here as well.)

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