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Extremism and Queensland

By 2353NM  

Political extremism generally doesn’t condone rape, murder or shootings to achieve stated aims, however it does promote that there is no tolerance for differing opinions or compromise.

A common statement from the conservative forces leading up to the last election was that the Australian Greens were extremists and more dangerous to Australia than either One Nation or United Australia Parties. While there is the over-exaggeration you would expect in urging not to ‘vote for the other bloke’ evident in the statement, they do have a point in that some parts of the Greens, One Nation and United Australia have extreme views.

It’s clear that One Nation has racist and bigoted overtones as well as some ‘interesting’ policies on other issues. United Australia has similar policies with a ‘leader’ that spent an estimated $60 million in an attempt to originally ‘win every seat in the country’, then when that didn’t happen, made a swift change in claimed rationale to ‘keep Labor out’ — probably the real aim for the entire exercise considering their ‘leader’ has interests in mining and not paying his staff.

The conservative argument that the Australian Greens have some extremists is also understandable. Regardless of his current status in the party, Bob Brown is seen as one of the leaders of the Greens. He was the public face of the ‘anti-Adani’ caravan of protest which left Tasmania en route to Clermont in Central Queensland (and close-ish to the site of the proposed Adani mine) in the middle of an election campaign. Brown and his fellow travellers apparently have opinions that climate change is a crisis and that the Adani mine should not go ahead because the economics don’t stack up, burning coal is unsustainable environmentally and renewable energy is the future. Essentially they have a point, but that point doesn’t justify their behaviour.

Presumptive ALP Deputy Leader Richard Marles also commented in a Sky News interview prior to the election that coal mining is economically unsustainable, a claim quickly rubbished by Morrison and the News Limited media. Interestingly soon after the election, a company in the process of obtaining a mining lease for the land next door to the proposed Adani mine announced they will allow their mining lease application to lapse as they can’t make a business case to continue development, adding further validity to the Greens’ and Marles’ point that coal mining is not economically justifiable.

But when a group of people choose to shove their opinions down the throat of others without compromise, as the ‘anti-Adani’ caravan sought to do, it is a demonstration of extremism. Like those that are addicted to alcohol or other drugs, ‘cold turkey’ immediate withdrawal from any form of mining coal as promoted by the ‘anti-Adani’ caravan has its own set of problems.

Brown doesn’t have the right to effectively tell a number of people that live in Central Queensland that their careers and therefore their homes, lifestyle and belief systems have to change immediately. Would those living in Sydney readily accept people from Central Queensland picketing Bondi Beach and demanding it be permanently closed as there is an ever-present health risk in swimming at that location due to the sewerage outfall in the area? Would those in Melbourne accept people from Central Queensland marching on Federation Square demanding the coffee culture in Melbourne be banned as increasing coffee consumption is detrimental to the environment and living conditions in places where forests are being bulldozed to plant coffee trees? Of course they wouldn’t — and why should they?

But Brown and his ‘caravan’ did exactly that in Central Queensland. They rolled into towns that are certainly not in ‘boom times’, having weathered a lot of economic changes in recent times due in part to drought and the cyclical nature of mining to tell everyone that their jobs and lifestyle should immediately and irrevocably change. Not subtle or conciliatory, is it?

Wouldn’t it be better to offer an alternative, or assist in a planned process to eliminate the problem? You can understand why some in Queensland voted for the smaller right-wing parties when ‘blow ins’ from ‘down south’, associated with progressive political parties rolled into town and then proceeded to lecture the locals on how to live their lives.

In any case, should mining of coal be immediately suspended due to environmental concerns, the government should be offering financial and psychological support to communities while managing a gradual transition into industries with greater environmental credibility. When Abbott’s refusal to support the motor vehicle industry in Victoria and South Australia directly caused the closure of production plants by three vehicle manufacturers, the Federal Government probably spent more to support those who worked in the production plants than the grants to the manufacturers would have been. Surely those in Central Queensland (and other mining regions around Australia) deserve the same consideration.

In short, the actions of Bob Brown and by implication the Australian Greens certainly didn’t help the ALP in Queensland at the 2019 election. The Greens need to learn the art of compromise before they are ready to govern anywhere in Australia. While in Brown’s and the Greens’ perfect world Australia should have closed all the coal mines and be powering the country by renewables by now, exporting technology and services to make up for the export revenue from mining and be paragons of environmental virtue — in reality it isn’t going to happen while people that should know better pull stupid, senseless and uncaring stunts such as the ‘anti Adani’ caravan.

The scary thing is that it’s not the first time Brown and the Greens have not seen the forest because of the trees. They voted on principle against former PM Rudd’s emissions reduction scheme in 2009 because the target range of 5 to 20% reduction didn’t go far enough. A 5 to 20% reduction was politically achievable and would have reduced emissions. Voting against the legislation meant a 0% reduction in emissions, which is what has occurred. ‘Principles’ don’t reduce emissions, legislation is far more effective.

As a result, the last 10 years of Australia fiddling while the earth burned is largely due to the Greens lofty principles overruling logic and understanding what can be achieved, together with absolutely no idea of how or when to compromise and gain part of what they want instead of nothing. And now the Coalition have been re-elected, there is no hope of effective action to reduce emissions in this country for at least another three years.

The conservatives are partly right, there are elements of the Australian Greens that are more extreme than One Nation or United Australia (who don’t seem to go marching into towns and telling them how to live). If it wasn’t so tragic, it would be ironic.

What do you think?

This article was originally published on The Political Sword.

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46 comments

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  1. Baby Jewels

    Sorry, you lost me on this one. Bob Brown had every right to do what he did and what he said was the truth. To say that makes him an extremist is ridiculous. If you think it’s extreme to want a safe and healthy planet as opposed to a dying planet, then perhaps you’re on the wrong planet?

  2. Jack Cade

    I agree, entirely, with the premise of the article. In fact the Greens – not for the first time but hopefully the last – shot the ALP and Australia in both feet. It was my view that the anti-Adani caravan had no chance whatsoever of success and the timing of it could surely have only one outcome, and that was the outcome it achieved. It achieved an almost complete wipeout of the ALP and I’m half-convinced that that was what some of the Greens wanted.
    On the ABC Vote Compass I am a classic Green voter. But they will never get my vote while they are fact-blind zealots.
    The Coalition has a 2 seat majority federally, and they have 25 seats in Queensland, thanks almost entirely to the Adani caravan.

  3. kerry

    Baby Jewels ditto. And not even accurate reporting of what the Anti Adani march was about.

    Ad Astra is an establishment mouth piece this piece is par for the course.

  4. Terence Mills

    I live in North Queensland and found that the scare campaign on the Retirees tax and rumours of a Labor death (inheritance) tax were very widespread particularly among the retired demographic.

    Last December I was quite alarmed that several friends in my age group (75 +) were convinced that the franking credits cash refunds ban would hit them in the back-pocket and the inheritance tax would rob their kids and grandkids of an inheritance. So I did something I rarely do and sent an email to Chris Bowen telling him that he would have to be a lot clearer on explaining the franking credits issue and publish some real life examples as pensioners and retirees were convinced their incomes would be impacted.

    I got no reply but Labor did clarify that the franking tax cash refunds would not affect pensioners or part pensioners – people who would rarely receive a franking tax refund anyhow.

    As we know, the death tax (inheritance tax) was just a scare campaign put about in Queensland in particular by the LNP but it had a few people worried and there is a powerful information network through the bowls clubs, men’s sheds, CWA etc where this sort of thing takes hold : inevitably these folk were not going to vote Labor even though they would never be in a position to get a franking tax refund and of course the inheritance tax was never a Labor policy – they just wouldn’t take the risk.

    Chris Bowen failed to adequately explain his policies and when you have an enormous amount of right wing propaganda coming from Newscorp (the have all of the daily newspapers in Queensland) plus SKY who now broadcast free to air through the WIN network in regional Australia, you have to be very upfront with your policies or they will be distorted – which they were.

  5. Michael Taylor

    Ad astra did not write this article.

  6. Jack Cade

    Terence Mills

    I work – as a volunteer presenter on a radio station in Adelaide. One of my colleagues, who falls, he says, on the ABC Vote Compass slightly to the right of the ALP, voted LNP ‘for the first time in my life’ because of the ‘franking credits’ proposal. Before the election no amount of explanation would dissuade him.
    Paul Keating once said ‘Never stand between a State Premier and a bucket of money.’
    His successors should have learned that the ‘State Premiers bucket of money’ was the everyday voters ‘self-interest.’
    I have a four children, now adults with kids of their own. If, in my child-rearing days, a caravan of well-heeled inner-city dwellers strolled through my suburb urging the summary closure of, say, GMH, without any immediate replacement, I’d have done what FNQ did.
    The Greens – as they present in Australia – would have wandered around the pre-historic world chanting ‘Put that fire out!! Put that ruddy fire out!!!!’ That is not progress, that is atavism.
    My apologies to the writers of the inimitable Dad’s Army for stealing a catchphrase.
    All the Greens have ever achieved in this country is the destruction of the Gillard/Rudd government and the election of an Abbott government; and the re-election of the arguably even worse Morrison government.

  7. Ed from Perth

    “As a result, the last 10 years of Australia fiddling while the earth burned is largely due to the Greens lofty principles overruling logic and understanding what can be achieved, together with absolutely no idea of how or when to compromise and gain part of what they want instead of nothing”.

    This is one of the best articles written on this site. Being purer than the driven snow means nothing if you are excluded from the decision making process of Government. What a bunch of amateurs.

    Politics is the art of compromise, make this in Bold & Underlined!

    This is one of the reasons Australia has been going backwards for the last 10 years.

    F#ck the Greens, even I have given these idiots second preference a number of times

  8. Kaye Lee

    It seems a bit rich to me that people pretend they are protecting jobs they don’t have. This is about opening up new coal mines which, considering the market, will cost existing jobs in other mines.

    The Greens have a policy for a $1 billion transition plan for thermal coal workers who will, inevitably, lose their jobs as that is the way the world is eventually headed. We should be planning for that. It won’t happen overnight but it is foolish to pretend it isn’t already happening.

    I find the analogies about Queenslanders telling people in Sydney and Melbourne what to do rather ironic because that is exactly what has happened. Because Queenslanders fell for lies, they have delivered us another three years of the worst government in Australian history.

  9. totaram

    Obviously, no one here cares for the actual “traditional owners of the land” on which the Adani mine is to be built. These people, who call themselves the Wangan & Jagalingou people, invited Bob Brown to help. I quote from their email below:

    “Watch Murrawah Johnson talk about Clermont, the front line of the federal election, on Wangan & Jagalingou country.

    Our recent Karmoo Dreaming celebration in Clermont, and our welcome to country to the Bob Brown Foundation, was a wonderful affirmation of our resilience as a people and the deeply held obligations we have as the custodians of our ancestral lands and waters.

    Watch the events in Clermont, central Queensland, when the W&J Council welcomed the Bob Brown Foundation to country.

    But our occasion was marred by a politically motivated attack, when a dangerous person galloped a horse through our peaceful gathering. It was a reminder of the frontier violence our people have been subjected to.

    People charging horses through our ‘camp’ is familiar from the Clermont region’s colonial history, from which our people suffered immeasurable harm. It reminds us of the fear and intimidation that is still used to try to silence us.”

    Of course this information was supressed by the usual news outlets, so no one seems to know this. Hence the entire basis of this article, suggesting that the Greens and Bob Brown arrogantly charged into Central Queensland is just wrong.

    The traditional owners are in court against this mine.

  10. Ed from Perth

    Jack Cade has nailed it, I also did the ABC Compass test & also fell between Labor & the Greens in the political spectrum.

    I’m afraid I am inclined to think that the Greens, going on past performances are a bunch of nut jobs who ignore the this Country’s plight in the interest of scoring political points. This saddens me because under realist circumstances these idiots have a part to play.

  11. whatever

    When they interviewed some of the anti-Green drunken hillbillies outside the Clermont pub (and we can assume that BigCoal was shouting the bar) one of them was allowed to boast of his plan to “follow them Greenies back to their motel and cut their power off”. Then there was the fool on the horse buzzing the anti-Adani rally.
    Thug tactics from the Union-Busting tacticians, also the same type of thuggery employed in 3rd World/Developing countries when locals don’t want to leave traditional villages to make way for large mining/industry projects.

  12. Joseph Carli

    I would not lay an accusation of “Dumb f#cks” on those workers honestly thinking and acting in the interest of securing their jobs and community into the future…what I DO call them “dumb f#cking idiots” for is in BELIEVING those same mining corporations have ANY CONCERN for their jobs or their community into the future….you’d have to be a f#cking mug to think that!

  13. Keith

    Maslow’s hierarchy of needs comes into play in Queensland I believe; unemployment is high, and more abstract notions of climate change are not a consideration. For those unemployed wanting work is at the forefront of what they would be thinking about. The caravan of people travelling from the South would have polarised Queenslanders further. It must be stated that those travelling in the caravan have very legitimate concerns about coal mines being developed in the Carmichael Basin. The Adani mine being a wedge to promote other mines in the area.

    Labor did not present a case whether they were for or against mining in the Carmichael Basin and also appeared to support fracking in the Northern Territory. Apart from that, Palmer and the LNP were able to promote lies about inheritance taxes, and other so called taxes. The standards set in advertising were well under any reasonable bar and politicians have been tainted by the garbage promoted.
    The title “Honorable” is an oxymoron.

    Warming Ocean waters are destroying coral reefs including the Great Barrier Reef, the use of fossil fuels whether Australian, American, Middle Eastern or Russian create extra warming in the atmosphere and Oceans. So some jobs might be created, while others are destroyed. With the trend in Ocean warming, the likihood of the Great Barrier Reef being viable in the future is remote. An aggregate of smaller countries can do much to ward off the worst of climate change provided a concerted attempt is made.

  14. Keitha Granville

    Well I have to disagree.
    Many moons ago Bob and anyone else in Tasmania, assisted by people from other nations, who cared about a wild river in the southwest did exactly the same. Protests, marches, blockades – everything to bring attention to the destruction of a pristine part of our state. We won. It is now a major drawcard for us and the west coast tourist industry because we saved it.

    I cannot understand how Queenslanders can think that continuing to dig up coal which is becoming obsolete is more important than the Barrier Reef, wonder of the world. The Greens do put forward alternatives but never get any press time with them. Dismissed as lunacy, airy fairy ideas, and yet some of those same ideas are already practice in many parts of the world.

    There is always compromise, but when the barrier reef is dead compromise is worth diddly squat.

  15. Paul Davis

    A lifetime ago in my career transition from worker to manager (in military terminology from grunt to noncom) it was paramount when problem solving to provide a workable solution that met the required business outcome and was acceptable to all parties involved. Federal and state Labor know that mining non metallurgical coal is a sunset industry which currently employs fewer and fewer workers, generates lower and lower profits and royalties and if undertaken will result in wasteful expensive potentially stranded assets plus the emission issue of course. Yet neither federal or state labor were courageous enough to grasp the nettle. North Qld’s energy monopoly, Ergon, currently sources over 40% of its electricity from renewables. Local smelters and heavy industry are taking advantage of solar power and renewable investment in Qld is soaring. The alternative business and employment opportunities to thermal coal mining are cleary evident. …. enough said…. except that Joel Fitzgibbon should stfu or clarify which coal he loves, assume as he is from the Hunter he means metallurgical which is still a high value export…

  16. Kaye Lee

    I agree about Joel Fitzgibbon. He is selling his constituents short by not pointing out that new coal mines will threaten the jobs of people in his electorate.

    I would also point out that the Greens got a swing TO them in Queensland (and nationwide)

  17. Vicki Coppell

    Jack Cade I agree entirely with the article and your comments. I also came across as the left of Green, if that’s possible, but would never vote for them because they seem to be chasing rainbows. Life is all about compromise – you can’t expect everyone to agree absolutely with everything you want – their attitude to political nous seems on par with an indulged toddler who will go for the spoil if they can’t get their own way. Two of my first time voters also came out in the green camp and asked me why I do not vote for them so I explained my reasons and told them to vote according to their values – they both voted ALP

  18. Terence

    Keitha – in relation to the Franklin, that was a different era. Australians were less greedy, not so self absorbed, dare I say it egalitarian. Today, things are different. Anything is justified as long as someone is making money and boy do you have to make a shedload of it if you are going to show those posers on Facebook a thing or two.

    Despite the fact that they are probably less than 2000 jobs on offer at Adani (and a good chance that most will go to 457’s from India) everyone in CQ thinks they are going to land a $250K+ working class job (there’s an oxymoron if I’ve ever heard one). No one owns a top of the range Landcruiser and a 5 bedroom McMansion on a tour guides salary.

    I think this is a great article. The fact that despite all their years in politics the Greens still haven’t worked out that to be an instigator of effective change, you need to be pragmatic and realistic. The Greens are the quintessential Disney Princess Party of Australian politics where, if they stick to your ideals then the baddies will be defeated and everyone will live happily ever after.

    The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome (yes I know that’s probably not the exact quote but you get the point).

    As Mick said, You can’t always get what you want, but you get what you need.

  19. Vicki Coppell

    Jack Cade I agree entirely with the article and your comments. I also came across as the left of Green, if that’s possible, but would never vote for them because they seem to be chasing rainbows. Life is all about compromise – you can’t expect everyone to agree absolutely with everything you want – their attitude to political nous seems on par with an indulged toddler who will go for the spoil if they can’t get their own way. Two of my first time voters also came out in the green camp and asked me why I do not v ote for them so I explained my reasons snd told them to vote according to their values – they both voted ALP

  20. David Bruce

    Like West Australians, who trust nothing east of the Rabbit-Proof Fence, Queenslanders trust nothing and no-one south of the Tweed. Maybe when Queensland and Western Australia secede from the Commonwealth we will be back to the Brisbane line mentality!

  21. 2353NM

    As the person who did write the article, can I make a couple of observations?

    If the Greens do have a transition plan to wean Australia of coal mining – they certainly haven’t promoted it very well.

    As someone who has spent a few years living in North Queensland, I’m not surprised that Ergon is using a lot of renewable power sources – maybe the ALP and Greens need to be promoting the opportunities that come from that, rather than attempting to answer the rhetorical ‘so when did you stop beating your wife’ distraction questions posed by the conservatives?

    I’m not surprised that the Greens vote went up in Queensland – we’re not all climate destroyers you know.

    The methods used to oppose the building some dams in Tasmania in the 80’s don’t necessarily translate to attempting to stop a coal mine in Queensland in the 10’s.

    However, the basic points – compromise and pragmatism will achieve something, ‘principled’ rejection will usually get you nowhere. The sooner the Greens learn that, the better for all of us

  22. Paul Davis

    Kaye Lee, some voters paid attention. At least the Greens had a plan to throw money towards remedial action around not mining the coal, eg, retraining workers, infrastructure and industry development spending. However this didn’t seem to be the primary message during the road trip north and all people heard or was reported was ‘stop adani’.

    It would be assumed that federal Labor woulda coulda mighta and in fact shoulda promoted and promised megabucks and real jobs to assuage the punters, but all people heard was lukewarm mealy mouthed whispering that ‘we won’t oppose adani if it meets all the fiscal and environmental parameters’.

    Fair dinkum, mining this coal is not going to be of any genuine benefit to the community, the nation, the planet, in fact it is a potential catastrophe The scientists and the economists know it, and i suspect most federal and state politicians know it too but just want the graft or are scared of the peasant’s pitchforks if they told the truth. Except Malcolm Roberts of course who presents as seriously deranged.

  23. Bert

    I don’t comment very often about the greens as when I start to I develop a red tinge around my eye’s. I have a visceral hatred of them, not all, just the most rabid. I’ve lived with and through some of the legislation introduced in Tasmania when Labor and the greens where in a coalition of sorts with the biggest bug bear of all being the abortion of a bill, the RFA. It made it almost impossible for us to manage our remnant bush land, which due to the restraints imposed by this poxy legislation we ended up selling. It can be someone else’s problem.
    As 2353NM states “compromise and pragmatism will achieve something, ‘principled’ rejection will usually get you nowhere. The sooner the Greens learn that, the better for all of us”. That sums it up. The greens do neither. Never have, never will. It’s their way or not at all.

  24. jack

    Kudos to you AIMN, for agreeing to publish this article

  25. guest

    Why attack the Greens? They have been talking for years about the problems associated with water, the environment, pollution, climate change…a raft of instances to be considered. We see them around us now!

    And they were/are ridiculed as tree-huggers, nut cases ,etc.

    So the key word here is ‘compromise’, along with a bit of ‘pragmatism’ – a bit like being half pregnant.

    We know the Greens oppose Adani and why. But they are not supposed to say so. Labor sat on the fence because they were politically wedged and were hoping Adani would fall in a heap economically. As it still might.

    But it is OK for Palmer to flood the nation with yellow bile in the Murdoch rag. Telling Australia how to vote. No compromise there.

    So what kind of ‘compromise’ is Adani offering? A smaller mine, smaller work force. And in return they will pay less royalties, have free water, construct only half a rail line, perhaps get some government subsidies.

    Adani is the Trojan Horse, leading some other 17 mines into the Galilee basin. Will there be compromise and only another, say, ten other mines come on the scene?

    And what will happen to other established mines in a tough market? Some compromise and only half their workers lose their jobs?

    And how long will coal be dug up to be shipped overseas? Another 15 years instead of 45?

    And India – how long will that be requiring coal from Australia?

    Meanwhile the scientists at the IPCC tell us we have until 2030 to before the condition of the warming of the planet is beyond reasonable levels. How will we compromise – for we are not compromising right now with carbon emissions steepling higher.

    And all we hear is that the important thing is a job, as long as it is mining coal.

    So it will be OK to compromise the planet, compromise the lives of people living now and compromise the lives of people to come. All for the value of a few handfuls of filthy lucre!

  26. Bert

    Guest, the thing about the greens is they want all the worlds ills cured in one fell swoop. They don’t know the meaning of the word compromise. In their blinkered world view it’s all or nothing and they’ll sink anything that doesn’t agree with their view. See K Rudd to see how they work. It wasn’t perfect but it was a start so what did the greens do along with the L/NP?, killed the whole fekkin thing off and more than a decade later we’re in a worse position than when we started and you along with your ilk blather about compromising the world etc. etc. You can’t see it but the greens ARE the fekkin problem. So save the sanctimonious navel gazing bullshite, it doesn’t work.

  27. Kaye Lee

    When the Greens compromised on tax transparency for companies with revenue over $200 million (instead of $100 million that Labor had wanted) and also secured an amendment forcing multinational corporations with global revenue of at least $1bn to file “general purpose” financial statements to the corporate regulator, instead of “flimsy” special purpose statements, Labor savaged them.

    “You’re on the side of Lucifer on this one, you’re definitely on the side of the forces of evil,” Cameron thundered to the Greens. “I don’t think lickspittle goes far enough describing what you’ve done.”

    Labor’s deputy Senate leader, Stephen Conroy, said: “You have sold out….you folded; you are spineless and when your supporters realise how spineless you are … they will know what to do about it. They will desert you in droves.”

  28. Kaye Lee

    Greens leader Richard Di Natale says his party will not give a “blanket no” to contentious international carbon permits, in a sign the Greens are prepared to compromise with Labor on climate change policy in the next Parliament.

    “Horsetrading as a principle, where we trade one policy area against another, is not something we engage in. But of course, in any negotiation, if we can get from here to there, and it’s a step along the pathway to achieving change, then, of course, that’s what we’re going to do,” said Di Natale.

    “Sorry, Richard, it’s not happening,” Mr Shorten told reporters while campaigning in the marginal South Australian seat of Boothby.

  29. johno

    Booooo Hooooo 2353NM, totally disagree. Bob Brown did something labor would be to gutless to do.

  30. guest

    Bert and Kaye, thank you.

    Compromise is what I was discussing. You cite examples of the Greens making compromises which upset Labor. And that is the reason for current problems?

    Who has been in power in this country over the past umpteen decades? Not the Greens. But they have pointed out some things which upset the major parties, and among those things are problems with global warming (hardly mentioned in the AGW election), water security, food security, pollution of the environment, the power of fossil fuel adherents, big agriculture, big pharma, deliberate lies and propaganda, dying rivers, the police state, the growing economic gap in our society, species extinction …

    Labor tried to separate itself from the Coalition, yet even then was considered by some to be just another neo-con party. The Greens have always stuck by policies which are regarded as too radical for the mainstream which likes to be “comfortable and relaxed”. The Greens upset some apple carts.

    And as far as I can see so many of Greens ‘ concerns are appearing across the world and the Green vision is not going away, even if North Queensland wants it to. So NQ can spit and scream all it likes, but a very large number of Oz citizens oppose Adani and with good reason. There is no future there.

  31. Aortic

    And Dale Ross a REPUBLICAN mayor of Georgetown TEXAS has committed his constituency to 100% renewables. He explained logically and rationally that in the next twenty to twenty five years it would give consumers very likely lower energy prices and give business the confidence it needs in the long term to invest and grow. Have listened to one of his spiels on google and could hardly believe the breathtaking authenticity of his reasoning. It should be broadcast long and loud, particularly in Queensland, if anybody up there can read.

  32. Brad Black

    When there’s so little sense in continuing with a MASSIVE mistake like the adani mine, when there is the possibility of environmental destruction to countless ecosystems, when there could be irreparable damage done to artesian water supplies and when both major parties support the mine what would you have them do?! Roll over? Have a sit in in Hobart?
    Absolutely disagree with this one!

  33. corvus boreus

    Aortic,
    In explaining the reasons behind Georgetown implementing a 100% renewable energy policy, Mayor Ross also mentioned another significant reason behind the decision; evidence-based policy formulation demands that politicians should respond based upon the best advice of qualified experts in their relevant fields, and the message from serious climate scientists demands urgent action.

  34. wam

    you are a brqave man 2353NM . A lot of this is trollshit.

    Bobby was dug up by dinatale an a cynical attempt to stop the bleeding of $2.756 per person to labor and had spectacular success.
    The greens can not be trusted when a better opportunity arises and would never be a coalition partner like the nationals.

  35. Aortic

    corvus boreus,

    A good additional point, I guess we could also look to our experts such as Abbott, Christenden, Abetz, Canavan and Taylor for guidance in our deliberations in this matter too.

  36. Zathras

    Although they attract twice the primary vote of the Nationals the problem with the Greens is they are ideologically obsessed and unprepared to “play the political game” to get results.
    They seem unable to compromise or find other ways to get what they want.

    Politics is about ideas but also about negotiation as a means to an end.

    The ALP is ultimately about creating a fairer society that provides adequate services for all.
    The Liberals are about deregulation and lower taxation to allow free market capitalism to “solve” all social and economic problems.
    The Nationals are only about The Nationals.

    However both major parties are prepared to put some aspects of their respective aims on hold or trade them off in the short term but are playing “the long game”.

    The Greens want it all and they want it now and nothing else will do.

    They have the conscience that the ALP seems to have lost (and the Liberals never had) about various humanitarian matters but not the discipline to enact it.

    I’m old enough to remember the rise and fall of the Democrats, who eventually became an inward-looking party of self interest and rather than “keeping the bastards honest” simply became another pack of bastards themselves. Voters simply ignored them and the same thing may happen to the Greens if they don’t change their strategy.

  37. SP

    There seem to be a suspiciously large number of comments here with the nearly identical format of “I should be a Greens voter BUT they are nut jobs/crazy/extremist” etc etc.

    Thus the purpose of these comments appears to be not valid criticism but MERELY the reinforcement of a meme.
    As such I would be highly skeptical of the motivation/identity of these “individuals”.

    The greens are not crazy. And as the guest poster above pointed out, why expect the greens to compromise when for the past 20 years there has been NONE, ZILCH from the other side.

    And now as the crisis horizon sharpens and scientists with increasing alarm tell us that there is no time…

    Maybe the Greens should have compromised all those years ago, or maybe Rudd should have stepped up to the “moral issue of the age” and acted according to his rhetoric at the time?
    Its all if, buts and maybes now.

    We are rapidly approaching the point of no return and Australia have dogshit for government. It stank before, and it stinks now.

  38. totaram

    wam: “Bobby was dug up by dinatale an a cynical attempt to stop the bleeding of $2.756 per person to labor and had spectacular success.”

    Pure fabrication based on innuendo, with no evidence whatsoever. I could just as well suggest that WAM is a paid coalition troll, whose main job is to ensure that the ALP and the Greens never work together, because once that happens, the coalition is toast. Look at the numbers of the actual votes. Not polls.

    . As I have pointed out, it was the Bob Brown Foundation which came to Queensland on the invitation of the traditional owners of the land, not the Greens. What should Bob Brown have said to these traditional owners? “Sorry, I would love to help you but it might upset Labor’s chances in this election because they are sitting on the fence on this mine”.
    Seriously?

  39. Marcus Champ

    Although I do not agree with some of the sentiment posed by 2353NM, there was every reason to suspect the Caravan would not achieve the desired aim, indeed would backfire. You do not have to be a behavioural scientist to realise the optics of the event & especially the timing was going to be very risky. Putting aside how it came about, it was always going to provide precisely the kind of “identify politics zeal” the hard right revels-in even as they hypocritically criticise the left for doing the same.

    There are a few things however that should be pointed out. Firstly, as has been mentioned by a few above The Greens actually have a substantially developed policy on transitioning from the coal industry including direct support to miners & business investment to build the industries of the future in the regions where they are needed (link below to Guardian article for info). As for why this may not be widely know…you have met our media have’nt you? Doesn’t feed the narrative of the latte-sipping tree-hugger who cares nothing for the worker meme does it.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/may/16/greens-would-demand-1bn-fund-from-labor-for-just-transition-of-coal-workers

    Secondly, having recently spoken to some Greens members from the same QLD regions the Caravan went through…the convoy was not organised by them, indeed they had ZERO say in the matter. I heard a great deal of concern voiced on the Caravan and many in the Greens were not keen on it from the start. Tar them with the brush, but be aware it is not a fair presentation of the facts….as has been pointed out by some others above.

    Thirdly, I am VERY tired of the “compromise refrain”. The RIGHT never compromise of what their core promises…locking up boat people, national security, surveillance state, tax cuts for mates, ripping the guts of the economy and handing them over to their donors. You may not have noticed however in 2016 Hillary Clinton was the “Centrist” “Compromise” candidate…and how did that work out? If we want to get a better country, we have to fight for it…because the rich CONservatives are NEVER going to give it to us, or compromise one iota on what they want.

    On Climatechange alone we don’t have long enough for incrementalism…and frankly compromise will not cut it. I get the idea of taking what-ever you can get at the time, but then turn around and scream from the rooftops to get the next bit, then the next.

    Seems to me for too many elections progressives & especially ALP have been outplayed by the rat-cunning & power of the elite who just dont care about our democracy, our values, and frankly laugh at us.

    Keep asking for scraps and that’s all we will ever get. Thats one reason why we are losing.

    I am tired of losing & am ready for a fight.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0lxKZmM4Zg (first 4 minutes, 40 seconds covers my point)

  40. Ken Fabian

    Yes, the voters in coal mining electorates are more likely than most to deny the existence or seriousness or link to coal in global warming and be deeply irritated by protesters telling them a bald truth that they already know but do not want to accept – but it was outside those areas in other electorates with other concerns that I think won it for Morrison and lost it for Shorten. It was not Bob Brown being wrong that most enraged the coal spruikers in rural Qld, it was his being right.

    Taking decades of top level expert advice on climate change seriously is not really an extremist position – but those promoting the very industries that make the climate problem much worse very much want people, especially those who lean Right who are susceptible to taking it seriously, to believe that it is. Especially those leaning Right, because when those start taking the issue seriously and understand there is no requirement to join the climate ‘movement’ to turn socialist or green or support global government or undermine free market democracy and the rule of law – then it really is the beginning of the end for coal mining.

    I have not been surprised that the coal and gas spruikers are claiming some kind of mandate for the Carmichael mine from Morrison’s victory and want Labor to believe that pushing on the climate issue was what lost them the election. I think of all the issues they campaigned on, it was the one that did not lose them the election.

  41. Kaye Lee

    Marcus and Ken,

    Well said.

  42. wam

    beauty totaram just rationalise all you need.
    To the media, including the ABC, the caravan was green, the head lines, by-lines, train lines all lines screamed, labor and the greens. Not bob brown’s foundation, not the greens, but LABOR and the greens,.
    The timing was deliberately chosen or just luckily advantageous for the greens.
    The two fold effect was a boost in green 1st preferences, $9m, including in qld and shorten’s demise 23 to 6 in queensland.
    If you want to put that absolute disaster down to facebook videos researched and watch by, according to many here, ignorant, uneducated rednecked idiots. Good on ya but it is bullshit.
    As for the guardian info, I am sceptical about your understanding of the numbers.
    If the liberal or labor followers only had viewed the videos there would have been over 50 million views each so 9m/2m suggests they would have had f-all effect in changing peoples votes.
    I feel sorry for anyone who thinks the greens:
    are not extremists left as phon is extremists right
    do not contain loonies
    consider dinatale not able to control and capitalise on the caravan
    have few if any national style wimps.
    So a coalition is a pipe dream.
    But who cares speak to greens all you like, Ttrm garner their ideas and Bob’s reasons for sending the caravan to a jobless, depressed area full of unemployed youth, armed service personnel and ever hopeful believers in the coal jobs..

    But if you are game speak to the workers of townsville and their hopes for the coal mines and then call me a troll.
    ps
    ken, who gives a flying …. right or wrong it killed labor in qld?

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