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The downing of Malaysia Airlines MH17 (as observed from Australia) – Part 1

The entire Australian political establishment seized on the tragic deaths of 298 people in the crash of MH17 in Ukraine to ratchet up the escalating U.S. led provocations against Russia. Before any investigation team reached the disaster site in eastern Ukraine, the Liberal-National Coalition government of Prime Minister Tony Abbott, followed by the Labor Party Opposition – the two wings of a decaying sub-tropical Westminster System – accused Russian-supported separatists in eastern Ukraine of shooting down the plane, and called for retribution against the rebels and Russia itself.

Over the next two months The AIMN will be publishing weekly installments of Dr George Venturini’s* outstanding analysis on the events, aftermath, and political gamesmanship from the tragedy.


The tragedy of MH17 developed in several acts: the event, 17 July 2014. Within days the separatists eastern Ukrainians delivered the flight recorders to Malaysian investigators; the Russia authorities delivered all evidence it had, including from satellites to the Dutch administrative and judicial authorities. There followed a first tentative inspection by the Dutch Safety Board, which led to a draft Preliminary Report, finalised on 9 September 2014. At the same time the Russian Union of Engineers was preparing its report which was issued on 15 August 2014 and made available in English the following month. Both reports refer to “a large number of high-energy objects that penetrated the aircraft from outside” (from the Dutch Report, at pp. 25 and 30). These are “30 millimeter calibre projectile[s]”, as the Russian Report detailed (at para. 7.1.1), bullets from a military aircraft single-barrelled cannon GSH-30, usually arming an SU-25 or a MIG-29. The eastern Ukraine separatists have no aircraft.

On 9 September 2014 Prime Minister Abbott asserted that: “The finding [of the Dutch Report] are consistent with the government’s statement that MH17 was shot down by a large surface-to-air missile.” The separatists had no such missile launcher.

Lying continued unabated. One does not know whether a secret agreement between Australia, Belgium, the Netherlands and Ukraine, signed on 8 August 2014 was discussed with the Malaysian Prime Minister on the occasion of Mr. Abbott’s visit on 6 September 2014. In the framework of the agreement, information on the progress and result of the final investigation would remain ‘classified’. Any one of the signatories has the right to veto publication.

The Australian Government, and both private and public sources have consistently lied keeping the public in the customary fog of ignorance.

Off-stage a ferocious battle is being fought with Russia by American oil interests for the conquest of the European oil and natural gas market. And that is the reason, possibly for a search of a casus belli, and certainly for a series of economic sanctions on Russia.

The downing of Malaysia Airlines MH17

On 17 July 2014 Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-2H6ER, operating as flight MH17, departed Amsterdam Schiphol in the Netherlands at 10.31 a.m. on a scheduled passenger flight to Kuala Lumpur International Airport in Malaysia. On the way it crashed in eastern Ukraine. Data from the flight data recorder and the digital cockpit voice recorder both stopped at 12.20:03. All 298 passengers and crew were killed.

Image from

Image from

According to the passenger manifest released by Malaysia Airlines there were on board: 192 Dutch, 29 Malaysians, 27 Australians, 12 Indonesians, 10 British, 4 Belgians, 4 Germans, 3 Filipinos, 1 Canadian and 1 New Zealander. All 15 crew members were from Malaysia. The nationalities indicated are based on the passports which were used for check-in. Some of the passengers had multiple nationalities, causing differences in nationality numbers published in the media. Eleven passengers were aliens with permanent residence in Australia.

It was an unspeakable tragedy and a criminal act which sent shock waves around the world.

Nobody yet knows who was responsible for this crime, despite ‘Western’ media and governments pointing the finger at either the rebel forces in eastern Ukraine – whom the ‘West’ accuses Russia of arming – or the Russian military itself.

Amid claims and counter claims by all sides, each force denies responsibility and there is no obvious motive for any force deliberately to carry out such an atrocity.

The United Nations Security Council has called for “a full, thorough and independent international investigation.” But, whether this has any hope of leading to clarity on the incident remains to be seen.

Yet many ‘Western’ governments, with Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott joining in, are exploiting this tragedy and using it to escalate rhetoric and tensions with Russia, raising the prospect of the Ukrainian war expanding.

The hypocrisy of the United States government is especially galling. The U.S. also has its own history of shooting down passenger planes. The U.S. air force infamously shot down Iran Air Flight 655 in Iranian airspace in 1988. All 290 civilians on board were killed, including 66 children. Despite reaching an agreement to pay compensation to families of the victims, the U.S. has never officially accepted responsibility or apologised.

The fog over and around Australia

In 1788 the English invaded a piece of Earth, later to be called Australia. That was a “defining moment in the history of this continent” according to the Prime Minister – 30 August 2014. In the 1980s Tony Abbott was in Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar.

A distracted, fun-seeking short-time tourist would be deceived by the sleepy backwater of the place, and the sense of bonhomie of its new inhabitants. S/he would not be aware of their propensity for violence – at home and abroad. At home? Just ask ‘domestic violence’ women, or sexually abused children, or prison inmates, or brutalised asylum seekers, or the homeless, or the old people dumped in squalid accommodations, all the needy et cetera – the signs of an ‘un-society’. Or find time to attend gladiatorial encounters of football teams, that kind of ‘sport’ being the religious succor of a pagan populace. Abroad? Check the historical record: apart from an ‘un-acknowledged’ – and never-mentioned – civil war on the original inhabitants, 1791 to 1928, there is the record of expeditions to ‘wars for the asking’, from New Zealand 1845,1860-61 through Sudan 1885; South Africa 1899-1902; China 1900-01; on several fronts during the first world war, 1914-18; Russia 1919-21; on several fronts during the second world war, 1939-47; Malaya 1948-60; Korea 1950-53; Indonesian ‘confrontation’ 1962-66; Malaya-Malaysia 1964-66; Vietnam 1962-75; Thailand 1965-68; Somalia 1992-94; East Timor 1999-2203; Afghanistan 2001, to Iraq in 2003. The loss of Australian lives is close to 103,000. And one is projecting another ‘khaki-election’ in 2016.

Having begun as a province of Britain, the place went on to become an appendage of the United States. Since 1942, when Britain abandoned Australia before the threat of a Japanese invasion, and with the exception of the short and tormented Whitlam Government, all Australian governments have continued to pay tribute to the American administrations. From Korea to Iraq and down to MH17 they know that the Australian blank cheque they hold can always be cashed in. Meanwhile, the place remains a quarry for rapacious multinationals, increasingly the victim of a corporatised world of widening inequality.

It is a place separated from the rest of the world by a thick curtain of fog. Behind it resides a vegetative populace – composed mainly of ‘abandoned Britons’ who are mal-governed with imitative English institutions, given to old-fashioned rituals and left behind when the English officially went ‘home’. One of such rituals is a ‘parliamentary democracy’, which actually is no higher than a spectator sport, abysmally played by parochial amateurs, mainly for lack of imagination.

The majority of politically apathetic Australians enjoy such a system, because the half-educated do not have to worry about keeping themselves informed. If there is any intellectuality it should better be left at home, lest it be confronted with irascible ignorance and characteristic impatience with complexity.

It is a frightened place, forever afraid, where a crude, self-interested and ignorant populace defines it ‘enemies’ by their ‘colour’: the Red Menace first, then the Yellow Peril which is always coming; the Russians are anew under the beds; and, now, the Muslims are ‘attempting to pervert’. Such are the terms of a un-society of xenophobes, racists and all sorts of hate-bags, telestupefied by Murdochian media. A colonial-minded and derivative business ‘culture’ sees ‘Asia’, to which some insist that Australia belongs, with its millions of ‘faceless hordes’, as no more than an economic machine, a grand teat which is to provide continuous well-being for Australians – particularly its upper levels of mindless triumphalists, racketeers of the mediocre all.

The initial risk, now realising, that the place could end up an economic colonial quarry disturbs occasionally – but passes on.

As Donald R. Horne wrote: “There is no longer in Australia a generally accepted public sense of a future.” But there remains a repressed bad conscience. Here is Horne again: “It is as if a whole generation has become exhausted by events, a provincial generation produced in a period when mindlessness was a virtue, the self-interest of pressure groups was paramount, cleverness had to be disguised, quick action was never necessary and what happened overseas was irrelevant.”

Australians speak of Asia as if they were still living in Europe.

Another, thick, permanent fog keeps them away from ‘the world, over there’.

Plentiful supporting views were provided by visitors: D. H. Lawrence, Kangaroo (1923), J.M.D. Pringle, Australian accent (1958) and confirmed by a well known and respected Australian author, D.R. Horne, The lucky country (1964), an indictment of an unimaginative place, its cosy provincialism, its cultural cringe and its subliminal ‘White Australia’ policy. He wrote: “Many of the nation’s affairs are conducted by racketeers of the mediocre who have risen to authority in a non-competitive community where they are protected in their adaptation of other people’s ideas.”

Such words could never be more apt to describe the present political leadership, whose ‘captain’ expresses its ‘policies’ through three-word slogans: ‘Stop the boats’ – capturing asylum seekers, quickly to be sent to concentration camps; ‘Bring them home’ – with reference to the victims dispersed on eastern Ukraine by the downing of MH17.

Indeed, as Horne wrote, “Much energy is wasted in pretending to be stupid. To appear ordinary, just like everybody else, is sometimes a necessary condition for success in Australia.”

Fifty years after such words were written they still describe, even more poignantly true today, “a lucky country run mainly by second-rate people who share its luck.”

Continuously disregarded is the work of J. Pilger, who just recently observed that “Australia is a land of excuses [for inaction], not the land of the ‘fair go for all’.”

An apathetic and uninformed mass of gamblers, electing clueless second-rate politicians to govern, is sending the place to the dogs.

As recently as 15 August 2014 a 24 year old university student abandoned himself to the following considerations: “Ignorance is slowly killing our country. Ignorance has landed us with the government and prime minister dubbed ‘Australia’s George Bush’.”

He lamented that “most people [his] age in [his] life have no idea about politics. They find it boring. They find it petty and dull. They would rather discuss sport, or Facebook – stuff more pertinent to their own lives.”

What seems astounding to a ‘visitor’ of 48 years – and still an Outsider – is the apparent ‘disconnect’ of the young people. To the extent that they are ‘connected’ they are so by the use of their cell phones, iPods and whatever new electronic gadgetry arrives from the rarefied air of Southern California or emerges from the tech-industry. Such ‘connection’ is limited to what their ‘friends’, family (?) do with ‘music’ and games. Some seem furiously texting away while others in coffee shops, internet cafes, public transport, even bookstores are on their lap top computers reading, writing, perhaps for college course, possibly their employment – or looking for one. Hard to tell!

But what they really know about a farce of democratic practice, of impeding threats (climate change and the corresponding rising of sea levels), or of the excruciating drama of asylum seekers (which has seen Australia condemned as recently as August this year by the United Nations Human Rights Committee), or of the degrading condition of the Indigenous People, or of the systematic violation of the civil liberties by the very government charged with protecting them, or of education reform – which is permanently kept on the boil and now more than ever seems to be ‘re-oriented’ towards ‘religious education’ (an oxymoron if ever there was one!), or of recent events such as the downing of MH17.

As the grieving student concluded: “We are an ignorant bunch, aside from a minority (and it is a minority) of politically active, interested people. You know, the type who see voting as a privilege, not a draining chore which takes them away from the beach or beer.”

And at the cretinous cry of “Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, Oi, Oi, Oi !”, and half-imbued in the rhetoric of the ‘fair go’, a seemingly fortified ignorant populace’s lack of awareness, indifferent to the inability to recognise the sinister nature of its government, continues to support and defend that government’s actions and policies – and to dismiss any criticism as un-Australian.

That applies to the case of the downing of MH17.

In such ignorance the populace is protected by the other even thicker fog which permanently covers the place.

Next week: An avalanche of inconvenient questions.

* Dr. Venturino Giorgio (George) Venturini has devoted sixty years to the study, practice, teaching, writing and administering of law in four continents. He is the author of eight books and about 100 articles and essays for learned periodicals and conferences. Since his ‘retirement’ Dr. Venturini has been Senior Associate in the School of Political and Social Inquiry at Monash; he is also an Adjunct Professor at the Institute for Social Research at Swinburne University, Melbourne. He may be reached at


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  1. Salstarat

    This is yet ANOTHER prime example of how the ruthless, remorseless Abbott regime have used international tragedy and circumstance to ramp up hatred, xenophobic racism and the callous vilification and dehumanisation of minorities to satisfy their own malignant agenda! Abbott is an internationally NOTORIOUS pathological LIAR who has been totally discredited and condemned throughout the world. His cabinet is overflowing with like-minded psychopaths whose level of unconscionable dishonesty, lack of transparency and malignant pervasive corruption has set a benchmark so low that their relentless deceit, broken promises and appalling, megalomaniacal self seeking arrogance is now considered to be their Modus Operandi! Abbott, Morrison and Brandis have used ramped up terror campaigns to incite a hateful, racist rage against innocent defenceless asylum seekers that goes beyond evil and aided and abetted by nauseating shock jocks like the corporate rapist, Murdoch, the perverted, bigoted Andrew Bolt-the-Dolt and the sickening sanctimonious hypocrite and misogynistic dog, Alan Jones. Never before in our history have we had a government so morally bankrupt, so callously cruel without a shred of dignity, zero compassion waging war against everything Australians hold dear. Of course, TRUTH is collateral damage to the bloated self entitlement of these mongrels … it only stands to reason that our democracy, free speech, egalitarian society and our children’s future will all be targeted under the fascist dictatorship of the WORST, most despised, short-sighted “leader” in the western world. A toxic little pill who is leading us down the dark path to economic ruin and environmental destruction! Sucking up tragedy to spew out more venom to support his hysterical paranoia and dumbed down idiocy!

  2. stephentardrew

    Well that certainly tells it how it is. Hard to swallow but can’t be argued with. Sometimes it takes an outsider to really hone in on exactly how dysfunctional things are. This does not refer to contributors on this sight of course.

  3. John Kelly

    The rush to judgement as to who was responsible for downing MH17 will yet come back to haunt Abbott. Big noting himself did nothing for the families of the victims. It also further downgrades his diplomatic credentials and leadership image, if it could go any lower.

  4. Kyran

    Brilliant read. I recall listening to Radio National when the Abbott was explaining to us less informed how the ravages of nature and the military conflict would be effecting the remains of the passengers in very explicit language. My recollection is that it was merely days after the event. In any event, it was graphic and devoid of any sympathy, let alone empathy, to those who may have known the victims. That was when the penny finally dropped. I was judging the Abbott by “normal” behaviour when he is devoid of it.
    In the subsequent weeks, I kept wondering where the flight boxes were. They got (memory – possibly flawed!) two mentions in media, which correspond with the article. I also recall a much later article stating it was unlikely to have been a missile. After that, the Abbott was wanting to do “shirt front’s”.
    MD, the Malaysians involvement has been “odd” since the other one disappeared (MH 370?) and we said we would lead the charge.
    Salstarat, agree. Stephentardrew, agree. Mr Kelly, nothing will haunt the Abbott. That would require a conscience.

  5. KOrstraw

    Hmm, and 4 Corners perpetuated the MSM bullshit (Abbott is a given, fool, liar) a few weeks back as well and jumped on the bandwagon with Abbrort accusing the Russians and their ‘rebel’ lackeys for all that has happened there. I had an interesting Twitter conversation with one of the producers who admitted (not overtly) that they were repeating US/MSM/LNPliars propaganda. Grist for the idiocracy mill. Another good source of information, as opposed to propaganda from our so-called MSM,: There are numerous articles there about MH 17 and the Wests involvement in fomenting Ukraine unrest.

  6. mark delmege

    yup well dont forget people just how quick Shortie was in echoing Abbott and the US in demonising Russia and where in our media – the ABC or anyone (certainly not in the cowardly SBS news) has anyone accurately reported on events in Ukraine? They haven’t and they wont and its govt policy that they remain mute or worse on significant matters of this world/

  7. Annie B

    Hard hitting, no frills – well written article, when facts are stated.

    ……… which had me feeling as though I’d been smacked mighty hard across the face several times, with no way of defending myself …..

    While much that is stated IS true, especially about todays’ political situation and politicians and our understanding or lack thereof, of politics, plus the heinous political opportunism when MH 17 was downed – I do take issue with his generalisations about Australia – and Australians – – – in general.

    He pronounces on more than one occasion that we are a populace (23.13 million of us ) who are — —

    ** Vegetative ( and live behind a fog )

    ** Afraid ( ” forever afraid ” )

    ** Ignorant

    ** Second-rate ( mainly !! – borrowed from D.R. Horne )

    ** Apathetic


    ,,,,,,, ” Australians speak of Asia as if they were still living in Europe. ” ……….. utter codswallop and crap.

    He paints the entire nation of our people, as a bunch of cretins ( with a miniscule % of exceptions ).


    This retired professor of law seems to write to vent his own spleen, and not really for the benefit of others.

    We MOST CERTAINLY can learn by hearing harsh truths about ourselves. If we listen earnestly, with resolve, and without losing our integrity and sense of self worth. However I have to wonder at the real reason this writer has us – and the U.S. in what is more like the sights of an MK17 …….. I believe it is something other than honest appraisal.

    I have now read some of his other articles ….. and they all written in much the same style. ( Even Julia Gillard is attacked quite mercilessly, in his definitive statement about her, in one article, and attacked again in another article or essay he has written ).

    I find it interesting that I can find no reference to a biography on this writer …. his origins ( obviously Italy ) …….or anything about him, except that it is evident that he is a prolific contributor to blogs – an author and article writer and ‘learned’ professor of law.

    That – is indeed strange..

    We seem to be very much in his gun-sights these days.


    I can hardly wait for the next offering.

    “Ancora imparo” – – – – ( allegedly a favourite ‘quote’ used by Dr. Venturini. )

  8. Thomas Brookes

    A well written article, that again gives Australia a whack over the head, but is unfortunately a total waste of time, because virtually nobody is listening, for all the reasons so accurately described in the article.

    For over a decade I have taken the same sign to every protest I have ever been too. I used it when myself and three very great people started “Occupy Brisbane” and most recently during the two and a half months I spent blockading Metgasco at Bentley in the beautiful Northern Rivers.
    On one side the sign says…… “The glint of gold, blinds those to see only what they want to see”.

    On the other side it says….. “One day your grandchildren will ask you… what did you do to try and stop this?”.

    I have been an Activist virtually my whole life starting with my first arrest and jailing protesting the Vietnam (all the way with LBJ) war, through to 3 years ago when I was arrested and jailed for blockading a Coal Seam Gas instillation in Tara QLD.

    Our once great country continues to sink further and further into unbelievable negativity and total plutocracy control, led by the puppet LNP/ALP two headed snake.

    I am now nearly 63 years old and I have given up. Why should I care? when my own children don’t care about their own children’s future, by opening their eyes to what is going on right in front of them and doing something about it. And to add insult to injury calling me a “conspiracy theorist” and “there is one in every family”.

    All I can say is… Guys… you just keep paying your “Fractional Reserve Lending” fraudulent mortgages and watch your freedoms and rights be eroded away bit by bit. For your “Safety” and “Protection” of course!.

    Why should I waste the rest of my life banging my head against a brick wall of ignorance, stupidity, willful apathy, complacency and compliancy.

    Grey Nomad here I come….. as I go and see what’s left of Australia, that hasn’t been completely controlled, polluted or sold off.

    Thomas Brookes
    Founder (or should I say ex)
    Australian Independents Movement

  9. Salstarat

    Thomas, I really do admire you and your stance against this despicable greed, endless self seeking capitalism and mindless consumerism that is destroying this country and the future of our grandchildren. Sadly, I share your observation about the disconnected X-Y Generation whose complete apathy and total complacency, I believe, stems from a deep rooted despair and firm belief that the Power of One is a dream …. that individuals cannot make a difference and the overwhelming corruption, lies and broken promises spewed out by this intolerable government should be regarded as routine! Like you, I have ALWAYS been a political activist, attending marches and not ashamed to voice my socialist opinions loud and clear. It is because I really CARE about other people: I care about the unemployed youth, the disabled, the mentally ill, the unemployed, the poor and, in particular, the terrible callous inhumanity, torture and even murder against innocent asylum seekers in Morrison’s internationally condemned off-shore concentration camps. My opinions are often criticised and dismissed as “leftist ranting”, even by my own children who simply do NOT want to hear anything that makes them feel “uncomfortable”. So many X-Y Gen just don’t want to be confronted with problems that may cause them to challenge or question their reality. Whilst none of my children can stand Abbott, they also despise every other politician .. however, this attitude will not really help them (or our country) to move out from this very dark period of our history under a fascist regime that is so inherently corrupt and undemocratic and is being led to a very dark place by a British-born elitist who despises everything Australians stand for.

    I am so grateful for the AIM NETWORK … my God, where would we be without it! At this time, every media outlet is being flooded and bombarded by Murdoch-driven propaganda and pro-LNP spin. Murdoch, the non-Australian, who plays politicians like pieces on a chess board, bringing down democratically elected governments (like Whitlam) is a SPORT to Murdoch.

    Thomas, don’t despair … you know there are MILLIONS of people out there like us. Sometimes we sit and watch the ghastly red neck BOGANS repeat, verbatim, the same hollow, empty three word slogans that Abbott and his ilk say over and over again. The LNP know that if they repeat a LIE often enough, there are idiots out there who will believe them … and there ARE, they form the ranks of the gormless Abbott sycophants who cheer him on today. However, there is a groundswell at the moment … a change. You can feel it, it is a tangible restlessness, a growing tsunami of disenchantment by the central conservatives within the LNP. It has taken over 14 months but they have FINALLY seen the light and realised that Abbott has abandoned them, LIED to them – they know, at last, that they have been horribly misled and completed duped. They have SEEN Abbott’s insufferable and truly offensive arrogance, strutting around like a vacuous show pony on the world stage of the G20 summit making a complete ass of himself. Abbott’s narcissism has blinded him to the very true adage: “You can fool some people some of the time but you cannot fool ALL the people ALL the time” … well, Abbott’s time is up! Karma has arrived and I really do believe that something BIG is in the air. The first thing, of course, will be Napthine’s loss in Victoria .. this may be the first BIG warning to Abbott that ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! However, there is no fool like an old fool and Abbott is about as dumbed down as a sack of potatoes.

    As our children age and their sense of entitlement starts to wane due to their responsibility to their OWN children, they will inevitably (we hope) become more politically astute. They will mature and learn that politicians come and go with monotonous regularity, however, all the BEST things that have ever happened to benefit mankind have evolved because of the agitation and protest of ordinary citizens. It is INDIVIDUALS (like you) who have contributed most to society – politicians are just the INSTRUMENTS of changes initiated by ordinary people. When you look down through history, the most enlightened, memorable and inspirational occurrences have always evolved from the Power of One to influence a groundswell. Ordinary people do extraordinary things …. we are the ones that MATTER – that will never change.

  10. Val Bridge

    Could not have said it any better than Salstarat above…. My blog will carry some extracts from here, that is if you have no objection. Please let me know if I can use some of the above. Naturally I will credit to you….Many thanks

  11. Michael Taylor

    Val, that should be fine. And I doubt very much that Dr Venturini will have any objections.

  12. Pingback: The downing of Malaysia Airlines MH17 – Part 8 | olddogthoughts

  13. SGT Tuttle

    Who profits?

  14. Mars Drum

    Hey, I was into this article until I read your description of the Australian populace. Abbott only got into power because of our corrupt two party preferential system. A whole lot of surprise parties popped up on the last election day ballot, eg. fishing party, shooters party, sports party…all who passed their preferences onto Abbott’s party the LNP. Simple. Ive been voting greens for years, and while there is certainly a conservative mainstream media swilling dickhead populace here in Australia, if our parliamentary system was fair and functional, then the Australian Greens would have been right up there in the last election. The shenanigans that go on in this country, that the coal barons and Rupert Murdoch and the Queen and the US are dictators of our nation is not unknown to us….we are just doing our best to make as many people as aware as possible. So please, when you describe our situation and country, trust me that there is a very large population fighting the current system and risking jail to do it. We are closer and closer to living in a totalitarian regime, and the fight or flee question is arising more and more for those who care….and that’s many of us.

  15. Annie B

    Um – Paranoia Palace bibbing in here ( that’s me !! ).

    Is it at all possible, following on Mars Drum’s comment and the way he put it :

    ” A whole lot of surprise parties popped up
    on the last election day ballot, eg. fishing party,
    shooters party, sports party…all who passed their
    preferences onto Abbott’s party the LNP. Simple.”

    …. that those ‘little surprise parties’ were … er … funded / devised / created – by the LNP itself, or if not it – then its followers, who have a bit of money to throw around to obtain the prefs. ?

    Is there any way of finding out ? ( bit late now tho ).

    Just wonderin’ ………

  16. corvus boreus

    Mars Drum,
    If you are talking something like proportional representation then I sound a resounding phuq-yeah. My local members(state and fed) are both slack-jaws who represent little of me that I would readily admit to.
    The proliferation of narrow interest parties(shell parties for milking protest votes), operating without clear policy articulation, has also worried me greatly over the last decade or so, at both state and federal levels.

  17. Annie B

    Thanks guys … you have answered my question.

    The link was ( choke ) more than interesting – thanks Mars D. …. While savvy with some aspects, am still learning and somewhat naive in others !!

    Am now wondering if the AEC itself is complicit. … although the link does explain how it all happens ( to a degree ). …. Perhaps the Constitution needs to be changed – somehow ? ….

    hmmmm !!

  18. Mars Drum

    As for the AEC..trustworthy? I started to doubt this when I found out in the 90s that many unemployed voters found they had been struck off the electoral roll, me included. On the Saturday voting day, there’s little one can do when one’s name is not found in the roll when one goes to vote. It happened to me two times in a row, so I got MP Mary Delahunty to sign my enrollment form as a witness before the next one, so it wouldnt happen again. On researching this issue, I discovered that this was happening to a whole lot of people, who would most likely be voting leftways.
    Anyway, AEC stuff here:

  19. Annie B

    Mars Drum – – Thanks, I think !

    I had hoped that at least the AEC might be honorable, and be able to run its offices efficiently, and correctly.

    But with the ‘striking off ‘ from electoral rolls of many, including yourself ( indeed how many ? would have to be asked ) – – and that this has actually happened … I am left in some degree of despair.

    All those links are sobering to say the least. …. with that information, there is ( as you said ) nothing anyone can do. … perhaps it is rigged the same way for the other 2PP mob ( and me a Labor supporter to date – maybe not so much anymore ).

    Corruption reigns – and voters are the mugs — or they THINK we are. … we certainly were in 2013.

    I think this will get worse before it gets any better – but I still hold out hope that some proper regulation, perhaps a change in Constitution wording in various areas – will happen. …

    For our country to remain free, open and democratic, it must happen – somewhere along the line. … Surely ?

    Or is democracy done with ?

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