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If they don’t know what they’re talking about, how are we supposed to?

Those of you who read my articles would be well aware I am not a fan of the Liberal Party or their leadership, particularly Tony Abbott.

In fact, even before I figured out Australian politics and where I stood in terms of my values, I can remember thinking Tony Abbott looked shifty, aggressive and untrustworthy.

We’re talking the mid 1990s, shortly after Abbott’s election to federal parliament. Long before I had any deep interest in politics. I’ve always been an astute judge of character and it didn’t fail me in this instance.

It is no surprise therefore that I abhor the Abbott Government and want to see them out of office as soon as possible before they rip our country asunder.

Even if I was more forgiving of this federal government or a more impartial swinging voter I would be worried by what I have seen since their election last September.

Their budget is an absolute shocker and a swift kick in the guts to the middle and lower classes of Australia.

Many of the people attacked by this budget naively voted for Tony Abbott having no idea he would totally and utterly betray them and break promises at a record clip.

The broken promises, lies and deceit are well known by now, along with the horrendous attacks on the most needy in society. No need to repeat them here.

What is concerning me at the moment is the omnishambles that is this government’s internal processes and communications.

On numerous occasions ministers have made statements regarding their department’s policies only to be  contradicted by another member of the government or their own department.

Tony Abbott went on talk back radio and softly told people their proposed changes to the university system meant that students currently enrolled will not be impacted in the slightest.

Wrong.

Currently enrolled students are in fact impacted by the changes from the moment the legislation would take effect.

Why is it the leader of our nation has no clue about the finer details of a key policy in the budget he is so passionate about?

It pays to remember Tony Abbott chaired every meeting, against convention, during the development of the budget.

I find it stunning in the extreme that he has no clue what his own policies are.

Mouth that roarded.

He’s not alone. The popular, pleasant and well loved Education Minister Christopher Pyne has no idea what he’s talking about either. On Insiders recently he claimed that the HECS interest increases that will be allowed under proposed legislation will only impact courses studied after the policy takes effect.

Wrong.

According to the Education Department website, the interest increases apply to all courses no matter when they are undertaken.

How embarrassing.

They are rushing in headlong to destroy the social safety net and increase the gap between the least well off and the most well off yet they aren’t even bothered enough to be properly across the detail.

There are several other instances of stunning ineptitude by ministers like Kevin Andrews but I think you get the picture.

How could it be that a federal government that purports to be so concerned by the so called “debt and deficit disaster” and proud of their budget, has no idea what they talking about?

It doesn’t do much to instil confidence does it?

They are having a hard enough time pitching this budget when they get their facts right without flubbing it every time they attempt to go into its details.

If they don’t know what they’re talking about, how are we supposed to?

It seems anybody that protests this budget is “whinger” or a “leaner” and not a “lifter”.

It wouldn’t be that some people are genuinely concerned about the shock changes and the impact they will have on their lives by any chance would it?

Some people will have support equivalent to 10% of their income ripped away by 2017/18. This at the same time as cost of living blows out under their policies like the GP tax.

The patient doesn’t want or need this medicine. The Abbott Government is like a parent of yesteryear trying to force castor oil down a reluctant and perfectly healthy child’s throat.

Revenue will never be looked at as a way to solve the structural issues that exist in the budget. That would require them to ask the big end of town to do some “heavy lifting”.

They don’t want to break poor old Gina’s back.

It’s all spend side and all on the average Australian.

That might explain why this is one of the worst received budgets in our history and their polls are getting worse everyday.

Confidence in the Abbott Government according to Morgan polling is lower than it ever was during the Rudd or Gillard years.

What does that tell you?

image

They get this budget through, against the wishes of Labor supporters and a 40 per cent of Liberal supporter’s wishes, we could be looking at risking our AAA credit rating or a self-inflicted recession.

It’s quite clear to me Hockey has no clue and just makes things up as he goes along.

The Saturday Paper recently reported what I already knew. This government is completely beholden to the shadowy forces of the Institute of Public Affairs and their far right extreme fringe agenda.

No wonder ministers don’t know their policies. They didn’t even write them.

The Abbott Government are in the habit of berating the Labor Party for their approach to this horror budget.

Hockey and Abbott are all of a sudden keen on putting “good” and “fair” policy first. Ahead of “populist politics” and “negativity”.

They say the Labor Party only “whinge” and offer no alternative.

Let’s assume this is the case.

Now where would an Opposition have got the idea for a strategy like that I wonder?

153 comments

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  1. DanDark

    Well if you play with fire you get your fingers burnt
    And these lots hands are burning,
    I personally have quit 2 jobs since budget
    One cleaning comm bank, other cleaning schools
    I have 3 other jobs still, cleaning cop shops, and govt buildings
    I pay more tax than my ex husband who fudges his
    And has done with the help of his accountant for over 30 years

    I am also only paying bills, and necessary food, no luxuries like a packet of biscuits
    We avoid them isles now, I am ripping all my pays/money out of banks as soon as it goes in
    I am my own bank now, the banks are right behind gov to rip us apart, oligarchs that’s all
    ,my mortgage is more important, than anything else, we need a house to live in,

    So a choice had to be made week of budget,education for my 8yr old daughter or house
    So I took her out of school, just the petrol is $40 a week, down side of living in the country
    I am home schooling her now till my house sells and I get out of this country as quick as we can,
    The education system as we know it is doomed, my son is in 3 rd year uni RMIT doing bio medical engineering, I also support him, as they cannot live on gov support, whilst his father is a tax fraud

    Women and children are doomed in this country
    I don’t think there is any turning back now, it’s gone too far for a lot of people
    Labour did put the nail in single mums coffins, but Toney has finished the job
    and he and his mates are is proud of it, it makes me physically sick now…

  2. jane

    Excellent post Migs. I don’t think even cynics like me realised how truly God awful they would be.

    I expected bad and self serving, but at least a modicum of decency and very modest efficiency.

    Instead we have a government so mired in incompetence and corruption we’re having trouble picking our jaws up off the floor.

  3. DanDark

    I also had to take her out of her one little thing she loves
    Piano lessons, couldn’t afford that anymore, businesses are losing
    I don’t even remember what this once great country was like
    We have been so ripped apart by gobs for years
    It’s very sad, I never thought at 51 I would be looking to escape my country
    To save our lives…..

  4. DanDark

    Oops sorry was ment to be gov’s not gobs

  5. Matthew Donovan

    Feel free to point out your particular issues and allow me to rip them to shreds one at a time.

    This is actually an opinion piece.

    Pretty hard to prove somebody’s opinion is wrong.

    Unless you dispute any facts I refer to?

    Just seems you come here to let off steam when your beloved government is crumbling under the weight of their own ineptitude.

    I’m sorry you find opinion to be a “rant”. Hopefully by that measure you don’t read News Corp Australia or watch or listen to Bolt or Jones because that’s all you’ll get with them.

    I regard to the budget’s impact it absolutely smashes the poor and middle class over the head unapologetically against most promises given. You want to cheer that on. Go ahead.

    Me? I look out for and care for the least fortunate amongst us and the average Australian.

    You can stick up for the big end of town getting $100B of concessions and subsidies while we all get whacked.

    Thankfully polls indicate you are an acolyte in the minority.

  6. Florence nee Fed up

    kobymac, I suspect you might be the one that is ignoring facts, Then when it comes to this mob, the facts are hard to find.

    One has indeed have to dig deep.

    At least I went looking for them., Yes, spending much time listening into the estimations. Sadly, I along with everyone else have learnt little.

    Will have to do, as many officials and department heads said, wait for the legalisation to appear in the parliament. Maybe then, one will find those elusive facts.

    You know kobymac, not even the ministers seem to know.

  7. Matthew Donovan

    How about conducting a cursory Google search from time to time kobymac.

    The facts are all out there quite clearly.

    Don’t be bloody lazy.

  8. Florence nee Fed up

    By the way, my opinion is, this budget is a lemon, a rotten lemon at that. I say that not what the Greens or anyone else. I came to that decision from what I have read of the budget,

  9. Florence nee Fed up

    I will be whinging very loud if I lose the pension concession card. Even if I lose some of it. I will whine, because it will mean, I become house bound and unable to pay my rates and taxes for starters There is no fat in my budget to do this.

  10. kobymac

    No that’s not the case. Although I might see if I can pick your other “non opinion but absolute truth” piece to shreds. There’s plenty to be done. Not just in numbers, but in the message.

    Ok so its an opinion piece, fine. Now I know you are unlikely to consider a second argument, not sure if you are qualified to produce a factual piece. Thats why you can dismiss jurors in court.

    You won’t convince anyone but your own with this type of writing…and if its your objective to improve poll numbers, this ain’t gonna work.

    PS Might want to get a proof reader before your next article. Quite a few spelling and grammar errors. I’m not any better, but i’m in the comments section.

  11. Florence nee Fed up

    No, once again you are wrong. The federal government contributes to those concessions.

    This government has cut hard with money to the states and councils. Who in hell do you think, has to make up the gap.

    Both states and councils have one of two choices. Raise taxes or cut services.

    I will be aiming the blame at where it belongs.

    I do know, if Rudd had not changed the indexation back in 2008, I would be receiving 144 dollars a fortnight less now.

    If Abbott gets his way, over the next few years, I will lose more, His indexation is even lousier than Howard’s. We all know that cost of living goes up., If one does not keep up with that one loses purchasing power. If my pension does not buy ar much, I have lost money.

    As for co-payment, when it comes to Medicare, I already pay more than I can afford. I refuse to be happy about paying more, that does not go back into Medicare or budget bottom line. That is a con, a rip off. I object to essential medical services being cut, to also lodge in that mythical far off fund.

    Most of all, I object to being led to.

    Yes, I have not even started whinging, whining or moaning yet.

  12. Florence nee Fed up

    led-lied

  13. Florence nee Fed up

    I have spent everyday listening to the estimations. No wiser. Why, the information,, data we are looking for, in the past was easily found in budgets documents, are no longer there,

    Not this year, more conventions broken.

    Maybe someone will make a list of the conventions that Abbott has broken or discarded.

    If Abbott and Co do not like what is been said, let them get out and clear the air by giving out the information needed.

    I suspect, it is not only them being secretive, but they do not know themselves.

  14. CMMMC

    Kobymac, look up the word ‘trite’ on Google.

    Teddy.

  15. Kaye Lee

    In Australia, the top 20 per cent of households control 62 per cent of the wealth, while the bottom 20 per cent have less than 1 per cent. Yet, year after year, federal budgets have consistently chosen to favour the already-wealthy through such measures as tax cuts, the inherently regressive GST, and generous superannuation benefits inaccessible to the poorer members of the community. Apparently squeezing blood from a stone is easier than listening to the high pitched squealing of Gina and her mining companies.

  16. Keith

    kobymac, two economists have come out and given very negative comments about the budget. One being xLiberal Leader Hewson, who has commented on the unfairness of the budget; a point Ross Garnaut agrees with. Ross Garnaut has also commented that with all the turns and roundabouts of the budget it does not touch the so called “budget emergency”.
    We are being fed ideological claptrap by the inept Abbott gang. They have been caught out communicating their misunderstanding of the budget as Matthew has stated. You must one of a few who trust the lying Abbott gang.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/tony-abbotts-popularity-so-low-that-someone-else-and-i-dont-know-are-more-preferable-choices-to-lead-liberal-party-9485633.html

  17. Florence nee Fed up

    kobymac, do you really think you impress anyone with your twisting of facts. Yes, using tax money for political reasons is not telling public facts.

    Yes I have heard most of the speeches and outpourings by Shorten., Yes, I agree with every word I have heard him utter.

    kobymac, I also still remember many of those shocking ad programmes of
    Howard, that gave one no facts, but were pure political

    Yes, and Labor did spend within the departments. Cannot not recalk, any ads of a political nature Maybe you can show us some, to refresh our memories.

    Mr Abbott can inform the public, by telling us what is occurring with parliament and the present estimations hearings. Not hard. Ads not needed.

  18. Michael Taylor

    “kobymac, do you really think you impress anyone with your twisting of facts”.

    It’s a delusion of his/hers. Florence.

  19. Lee

    Kobymac, the National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling (NATSEM) at Canberra University has calculated the effect of the budget on households of various incomes. They publish cost of living indexes on their website, although the calculations from the 2014 budget are not there as far as I can see.

  20. Florence nee Fed up

    I believe the German Chancellor has cancelled her talks with Abbott. Maybe having to sit next to him last night was enough. I wonder if she gave him a prod, to wake him up, when he took that nap.

  21. Florence nee Fed up

    Lee, no one seems able to find any such calculations within the budget papers. That is breaking with conventions since Federations. Hockey did put out a paper, claiming It came from treasury,. Another lie of Hockey’s. Originated in his office. It is clear from estimations, the treasury had little input into budget. Not asked for modelling.

  22. Florence nee Fed up

    Climate change “off the G20 agenda” as Australia prepares to abolish carbon price

    Ignoring climate change, the biggest threat facing the world, is simply not a moral option for Tony Abbott, Australia or the G20. It would be a huge mistake for the prime minister to make

    Tony Abbott’s insistence that Obama’s “direct action” policy is the equivalent to his own is the diplomatic equivalent of Twitter-trolling. Photograph: Paul Kane/AP

    In the week that US president Obama announced major new carbon pollution regulations and China announced it would introduce a cap on carbon emissions by the end of the decade, climate change-denying Australia prime minister Tony Abbott has taken climate change of the G20 agenda.

    Australia took over the chair of the G20 group of nations — the 20 largest economies on earth — in December. While this would normally be a moment of national pride, prime minister Abbott had lurched from one foreign policy gaffe to the next, compounding the ignominy with his morally negligent policy to abolish Australia’s carbon price.

    Abbott’s wilful disregard for the risks of global warming come as Australia reached yet another landmark climate record: the Autumn (fall) month of May was unusually hot across the entire eastern seaboard of the continent. According to Sarah Perkins from the Climate Council:……….

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/southern-crossroads/2014/jun/05/g20-climate-change-agenda-obama-abbott?CMP=twt_gu

    http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/5/30/1401427411557/5ad5364d-29f6-4b9f-9cf1-a8b82ab74c49-460×276.jpeg

  23. Florence nee Fed up

    Michael, fools like me need advice on how to blockquote etc

  24. Möbius Ecko

    Abbott yet again not doing well on the world stage. As has happened on previous occasions, he was again left standing alone outside of an influential group this time of world leaders at the D-Day commemoration. For mine looking like a stunned mullet not knowing what to do or where to go. One commentator fobbed it off as Abbott being new to such high level gatherings.

    Then the money shot, Abbott’s chance to shine. Zoom in to a tight close up of his face as he meets a group of leaders, and out comes the tongue, lizard like flicking and licking his lips much more than usual for him, made worse by the extreme close up. Then cut to lots of shorts of Abbott nodding his head like a bobblehead doll.

    I don’t know if this was deliberate to poorly frame Abbott visually as the talk over was mostly in a positive vein, except it did at one point highlight the difference between the great reception Obama got to Abbott being mostly left alone.

  25. Matters Not

    Just think Möbius Ecko, Abbott is going to Chair the G20. There will be nigh on 4 000 delegates with around 2 500 media representatives. For two days, the media spotlight will be on him, and by extension on Australians as a whole.

    Where to hide?

  26. Möbius Ecko

    Matters Not. I think like Howard before him, Abbott’s in for a lot of personal coaching before then. Unlike Howard I don’t think Abbott’s lacklustre persona and woeful demeanour will be as easy to polish. You can polish a turd but Abbott is another matter.

  27. OzFenric

    Hi Mobius, there seems little reportage in the MSM regarding Abbott’s overseas doings. Where can we see this reported?

    BTW, if you polish a turd all you end up doing is smearing the shit around. Sounds pretty apt, really.

  28. Möbius Ecko

    OzFenric. It was a voice over on ABC News Breakfast this morning but I think the footage came from either the Australian media that was with him or from a foreign media source who were covering the event.

    By the way Mythbusters proved you can polish a turd to a shine, hence my quip that you can polish a turd but not Abbott.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJ9fy1qSFI

  29. OzFenric

    Yes, I think my problem is that whenever I think of polishing this particular turd, I can’t help spitting on him.

  30. DanDark

    Every time I look at Abbott now, I will be looking at a round ball of polished turd on his shoulders
    Instead of the botoxed face, with the new hair transplant, and its lizard tongue
    I actually think the polished turd is easier on the eye, thanks made my day 🙂

  31. Florence nee Fed up

    Tanya now on ABC 24. Yes, having a go at our PM;s behaviour overseas.

  32. Neil of Sydney

    “They get this budget through, against the wishes of Labor supporters and a 40 per cent of Liberal supporter’s wishes, we could be looking at risking our AAA credit rating or a self-inflicted recession.”

    We will lose our AAA rating like we did under Hawke/Keating if we don’t start running surplus budgets . In fact we were downgraded twice under Hawke/Keating.

    Unless you lefties have some idea of how to produce a surplus budget I think you should keep quite.

    Has there ever been an ALP govt since say 1980 either State or Federal that has ever reduced debt??

  33. Suzanne Cass

    Amongst the lesser known budget items is the abolition of programs that help workers stay in their jobs (since they want us all to work until we’re 150), including the Workplace English Language and Literacy and the Investing in Experience programs – and with them goes my job. This is the second time these clowns have got elected and it has cost me my job, the last time they abolished the department for which I worked (their re-defining of the term ‘natural attrition’). As a ‘mature aged’ worker in Tasmania, I am unlikely to get another job. So I went to see new MHR for Lyons, Eric Hutchinson. I told him, if we are all expected to ‘earn or learn;, since I have a Master’s degree, two Graduate Certificates, a Diploma and three Level IV Certificates, what he thought I should ‘learn’ to get a job. He had no answer (his best qualification is an Associate Diploma in Wool and Fibre Marketing (LOL). As for my trainees, what is to become of them? And as a household breadwinner of 25 years with a partner with chronic illnesses requiring blood tests, CT scans, XRays and medications (as well as the GP, and potentially the loss of the minimal pensioner concessions he gets, where to for us? Again, no answer.And all that said, there are and will be hundreds of thousands of Australians far worse off than we are. As for the Greens, Labor and PUP, being ‘appalled’ and ‘disgusted’ really doesn’t cut it. They need to have the balls to support Andrew Wilkie in blocking supply so we can vote these lunatics out.

  34. Bacchus

    Neil the cracked record!

    Did you EVER consider the possibility that AAA ratings don’t depend on running surplus budgets? You do realise that Fitch’s upgraded us to AAA while running deficits and a government debt to GDP ratio of 26.3% at the time?

    Also consider that a government surplus usually means a huge increase in private sector debt (like in the Howard years), dependent on what the current account is doing. Private debt is MUCH less sustainable than controlled government debt…

  35. Neil of Sydney

    “Did you EVER consider the possibility that AAA ratings don’t depend on running surplus budgets? ”

    I would think it depends on the level of debt.

    Strangely we lost our AAA rating under Hawke/Keating when debt was low (~10% of GDP). We are already at that level.

    But we have been warned by the ratings agencies. Start running surplus budgets or we will lose of AAA and have to start paying higher rates on our debt.

    Butt out Bacchus. The ALP is only good at producing debt and deficit.

    And that rating by Fitch was useless. We got our AAA back in 2003. That is when we started to get AAA rates on our interest rates.

    Fitch is only useful for deceitful, corrupt ALP apologists for propaganda purposes.

    Fitch just forgot about us because we are a non-entity in world issues.

  36. Bacchus

    Butt out yourself Neil 😆 You’ve been polluting the interwebs for years – now you want to be free to do the same here. Sorry old chum – I’ll continue to call out your trolling ways whenever I see them…

  37. Bacchus

    Here’s one for you Neil – explain how the GP co-payment is going to make Medicare more sustainable 😉

  38. Neil of Sydney

    Come on Bacchus. Do you really believe i am trolling??

  39. Bacchus

    Without a doubt – you’ve been doing it for years…

  40. Florence nee Fed up

    Neil, the caravan and circus has long moved on. Debt is no longer the story. You will have to run fast to catch up.

  41. Möbius Ecko

    http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bpgi1hFCQAAIZOg.jpg

    And yet again Abbott embarrasses us on the world stage and a foreign media, C-Span in this case, shows it for all the world to see.

    ——————————
    Bacchus, bet you that you will get nothing but obfuscation from Neil on your question on the GP co-payment, and it will take the form of harking back to Labor past, with probably Labor debt being the core attack point. One thing you won’t see Neil do is address Liberal failings either in this government nor in Howard’s, yet he has not problem bringing up monotonously what he perceives to be Labor failings, even if he’s proven wrong on them.

    Ignore him. All Neil wants to do is derail topics that in anyway highlight and prove the failings of the Liberals, and he does this by raising the same small handful of attack points over and again so as to get responses that divert to talking about Labor. It’s Neil’s answer to everything, Labor.

    GP co-payment, Labor debt.
    Abbott lies, Labor debt.
    Liberal government stuff ups, Labor debt…
    …and so on. You get the picture and it has been thus for years now without change.

  42. Neil of Sydney

    Without a doubt – you’ve been doing it for years…”

    Sorry Bacchus. I don’t troll. I give my opinion.

    And i don’t care about your stupid question trying to trap me.

    Another 3 or 4 years of Wayne Swan deficits and we will lose our AAA. We are already paying $1B/year in interest on the debt you retards racked up from 2008-2013. We are already paying amonst the highest interest rates in the world because we need to attract money. And if we lose our AAA we will have to pay even more.

    Go stuff yourself.

  43. John921Fraser

    <

    @Neil

    Hello "Neil".

    "Go stuff yourself."

    Keep up the good comment.

  44. Möbius Ecko

    http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s2220g

    That’s why you should totally ignore Neil.

    In all the years on the points of senior Liberal’s past failings have been raised, Neil has harked to Labor calling them corrupt and evil, always obfuscating when their moral bankruptcies are raised.

    Like Julie Bishop deliberately delaying legal compensation proceedings so that the plaintiffs, close to death, died in the meantime so the wealthy company she represented wouldn’t have to compensate them and their families.

    Or Abbott’s past support of paedophile priests or senior clergy who have covered up that abuse, or even further back his bullying and misogyny. And you see it now where he believes that a witch hunt enquiry into the HIP, that has had eight previous enquiries, deserves far more funding than a wide ranging commission into systemic institutionalised child abuse of the highest order. You sure won’t see Neil address that except to divert to Labor.

  45. Bacchus

    Go stuff yourself.

    No Neil, you’re not trolling at all 🙄

    Interesting isn’t it that Mö had your reply pegged before you even posted it.

    * How about you explain why the $80 billion cut to Health and Education funding to the states is a good idea?
    * Or why cutting payments to the states to fund pensioner discounts is a good idea?
    * Or why you so hypocritically accept all the lies told by this government purely to get elected?
    * Or why the ministers in this government can’t even agree on what the measures in this budget are? You know, the topic of this post 🙄

  46. Möbius Ecko

    http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnoVjutIQAE9vX0.jpg

    Bet Abbott admitting he’s as bad as the Labor government he (and Neil) so heavily canned for six years will be because of Labor’s debt as well.

    Abbott was forced to add $68 billion to it, more than doubling it, just so he could break that promise along with all the others and have an excuse. I’m still trying to find out just how Labor forced them to waste $68 billion they didn’t need to, but you never know a miracle might happen and they may come up with a logical cohesive reason, then again Abbott may also stay awake at important world events and not stuff up whilst overseas. Nah, never going to happen.

  47. Neil of Sydney

    “Interesting isn’t it that Mö had your reply pegged before you even posted it.”

    At least i am consistent.

    Bacchus- i don’t care about your stupid questions.

    We need to get the budget back into surplus.

    70% of the money we need to borrow to fund the ALP stuffups has to come from overseas.

    That is right 70% of our bond market comes from overseas. You don’t care but i do.

    Do you think it is a good idea to fund our recurrent spending by borrowing from overseas??

  48. John921Fraser

    <

    @"neil"

    Jesus you a real downer, in your fish tights and your "debt, debt the ceiling is falling in".

    Why don't you try having a bit of confidence in your fellow Aussies.

    Why don't you praise the Australia you live in instead of just crying a river all the time.

  49. Kaye Lee

    What is wrong with borrowing overseas Neil? Gina just borrowed $7 billion from the US for her new “rape of the nation” project. We don’t have sufficient domestic lenders and others are clamouring for our bonds because we have such a strong economy. Do you think they will appear with a foreclosure order and take over the Lodge? How would they cope with the possums?

  50. Bacchus

    We need to get the budget back into surplus.

    Actually, no we don’t. That will mean private sector debt will again start blowing out in an unsustainable manner. We need to “hasten slowly.”

    Why do you blindly accept the most lying, deceitful government we’ve seen since 1996-2007? 😉

  51. Möbius Ecko

    People Neil’s succeeding. He’s derailing the topic and doing so by getting you defending Labor’s debt.

    He won’t acknowledge a single valid point or source of data you raise, so stating them is a waste of time and a piddling victory in his small mind.

  52. Neil of Sydney

    “S&P rejects Tony Abbott’s budget warning on AAA credit rating

    No they don’t, they said this.

    We have a stable outlook on the AAA rating, which means we think there’s a less than one-in-three chance of a change to the next couple of years,” Mr Michaels said this afternoon.

    “Our view hasn’t changed from what we said a week ago … that we were looking for the government to run its finances prudently and to gradually improve budget performance to see deficits decline over the medium term. The budget is consistent with that.”

    And are you a total FOOL??? You want me to believe Treasury forecasts after SIX years of total failure by Treasury under Wayne Swan to forecast anything.

    We need to get the budget back into surplus ASAP.

  53. John921Fraser

    <

    @"Neil"

    Lifes too short to bother replying to you, try getting help here if you so worried about your situation :

    http://www.lifeline.org.au/

  54. Möbius Ecko

    Here’s challenge.

    Get Neil to answer questions like the ones Bacchus has asked on the GP co-payments. Get Neil to address the other items in the budget that are grossly unfair without him referring back to Labor. Ask Neil about the Liberal party infighting and if he’s so keen on the past how about he addresses Abbott past moral failings and support for paedophile priests.

    How about you get Neil to answer why he supports the government taking significant money away from the most comprehensive commission into systemic institutionalised child abuse and away from support for victims who are going to testify, to divert it to an enquiry into a program that’s had eight previous enquiries. More than that, the government minister responsible outright lied when asked back in February if he had diverted money from the child abuse commission and he said, “no I haven’t”.

    There’s so many things on topic you could try to get Neil to respond to, but of course he won’t respond to them, instead he will go back to his handful of Labor attack points mostly rooted in the past and overwhelmingly based on Labor debt is bad. Even harking back to Howard as Treasurer debt has him harking to Labor debt and how much worse that is. Now that I’ve mentioned it he will probably do just that as a diversion.

  55. Florence nee Fed up

    Neil, you give opinions, that has been discredited hundreds of times. In fact your opinions hold no water whatever.

    Neil, you and Dutton seem to have come out of the same mould. Do not take that as a compliment,

    We have heard Dutton say for over a month, that Labor supported co-payments he bought in back to the days of Hawke,

    Mr Dutton, if what you say is true, why did not Labor bring in such payments. Could the truth be they considered and rejected such action.

    Could Tanya be right when she says the department rolls out such rubbish to every new health minister. Could Tanya be correct, whens she said through laziness, you swallowed the lot, hook line and sinker.

    Yes,, Neil, there are many in this government,, pushing similar arguments as yours.

    They also make as little sense as yours.

    They should no better, as they claim to be educated. Not sure about Dutton. as he came from the police force, though not the front line, as far as I know.

    One needs to be aware, that Dutton has found himself a excellent speech writer. Sound polished, but data is crap.

    Neil, I really believe your days are numbered on this site. No Café anymore to fall back on. You will see, most will just scroll past, as most have more interesting things to talk about. Things that are happening now.,

    Good luck.

  56. Florence nee Fed up

    Neil, it might surprise you. I care not what you think, That is your problem. Not mind or any one else here., Why inflict your misguided opinions on us. Does not matter how many times you recycle the rubbish, it changes nothing., Goes no where, Has no end. Proves nothing..

  57. Florence nee Fed up

    Took the money for Cadburys out of the overseas aid budget, Not sure how he did that one,

    The $370 million for Cambodia cannot be found. We have the so called scholarships, that are guaranteed, but not necessary so,

    No, nothing adds up in this budget,

  58. Neil of Sydney

    Mobius, Bacchus, FU

    Thank you for your very kind and thoughtful comments. But my answer to your questions is the same.

    We need to get back into surplus ASAP. 70% of the money we borrow to fund deficit spending has to come from overseas since we do not have enough savings in this country. Furthermore 3 or 4 more years of Wayne Swan deficits means we will lose our AAA rating and interest on our debt will increase.

  59. Bacchus

    😆 @ Neil. Wayne Swan deficits aren’t the problem (and never were). Much, much worse – we have Joe Hockey deficits + unneeded austerity + appalling incompetence + Lieberal LIES to worry about in 2014 and beyond. 😉

  60. Matthew Donovan

    Neil.

    We are a society. Not just an economy.

    Can I point out what AAA rating means?

    It means we are in the top 10 best performing economies in the world.

    I also point to this article: http://m.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/sp-rejects-tony-abbotts-budget-warning-on-aaa-credit-rating/story-fn59niix-1226923863924

    Our rating is not at risk.

    I ask why you are prepared to have our least fortunate smashed while the rich contribute in no extra way?

    $100B of concessions and subsidies.

    Look there before you slug the poor.

    We have just been through a really hard period of the GFC.

    No recession.

    We should rebalance our budget by cutting unaffordable items that impact the more well off.

    Howard cut taxes hugely when money was flooding in. We are now paying for that.

    You aren’t engaging in reality.

    Or facts or reason.

  61. Neil of Sydney

    “Howard cut taxes hugely when money was flooding in. We are now paying for that.”

    Mate why go back 6 years unless you are a partisian deadbeat. Here is you hero Wayne Swan saying how great his tax cuts were.

    http://www.budget.gov.au/2013-14/content/overview/html/overview_41.htm

    “The Government has delivered $47 billion of tax cuts in our first four years since coming to office. In addition, we have provided further tax cuts as assistance for the cost of living impact of the carbon price from 2012‑13. Even after accounting for the small increase in the Medicare levy in 2014‑15 we will be delivering total tax cuts of around $20 billion a year over the next four years compared to the 2007‑08 tax scales.”

    In the last column Wayne Swan even has a Table showing how much better his tax cuts were than Costello’s

    And we got our AAA back because Costello took Federal govt debt from 20% of GDP to less than 10%. In fact he took it to zero.

    That is something the ALP could never do.

    You people are shameless. Claiming credit for something Costello did and you lot could never do.

  62. Rossleigh

    Actually, Neil, I could never do what Costello did. I have too much self respect.
    Obviously, you don’t…

  63. Michael Taylor

    Matthew, when you engage with Neil you must remember that you’re engaging with a complete idiot. Honestly. Do not expect anything sensible from him. Dare I say it, but he’s an absolute dickhead. He diminishes the quality of any discussion he tries to engage in.

    His only reason for being here is to disrupt. And on top of that he will try to belittle you at every opportunity.

  64. Steve

    I met Tony Abbott twice in my life.
    First time I was 17 and wanted to know afew things about the liberals policies regarding disability and social security so i could make an educated suggestion to my mother (who had suffered a stoke and brain anuerysm) on how to vote. I was met with, and I quote “Do you vote? No. You are just a kid. Piss off and let the adults speak.” This was after I explained my situation.
    The 2nd time I met him while working as a waiter. I asked if he and Joe Hockey were right for drinks and was told “If I wanted something I would have told you already.”
    Well I say to Tony Abbott this. I don’t want you lies and deceptions. I want a future for my family. How are you going to garauntee I don’t have to make them go hungry when you strip us of over $5000 per year? Maybe make the Dept of Housing base my rental rebate on gross income instead of net income? That will still leave me $3750 out of pocket, and thats if we all develop a super-immunity to disease and injury.
    I hope he does a visit to Sudan and ends up being a long term tennant of regional royalty.

  65. Bob

    Neil of Sydney, Australia has not been and is not in any danger of losing its AAA credit rating. Period. But I am wondering if you, Neil, managed to finish year 12. You appaear to me to be far too stupid to have been able to pass those exams.

  66. Florence nee Fed up

    Steve, you describe the Tony I would expect to see, This man has no concept of the needs of others, or what effect his behaviour and actions have on others.

  67. DanDark

    Michael T
    I thought, the shiny turd video made my day LOL
    But your comment about Neil has surely put a 🙂 on my face
    You must be psychic, cos you have described Neil to a tee 😉
    I just ignore trolls now, they are a health hazard

  68. Michael Taylor

    Dan, I really have had a gut full of trolls. I don’t think I’ll tolerate them anymore.

  69. DanDark

    Yes but what to do with them,
    The more attention they get
    The worse it gets, they then start the personal attacks
    Because it’s the last post for a bully,
    And shows a lacking in any empathy, and social conscious

  70. DanDark

    IGNORE THE TROLLS 😉

  71. Neil of Sydney

    “Actually, Neil, I could never do what Costello did. I have too much self respect.

    Exactly. It took 6 surplus budgets by Costello to get our AAA back which we lost under Hawke/Keating.

    That is something Labor could never do. So we only have a triple A rating because of Howard/Costello

  72. Neil of Sydney

    Matthew

    You said this

    “Howard cut taxes hugely when money was flooding in. We are now paying for that.

    Why go back to the Costello 2007 tax cuts when Swan cut taxes every year for 6 years and then bragged about it. Swan even provided a Table showing how much better his tax cuts were than Costello’s

    Furthermore Stephen Koukoulas says the Howard/Costello govt was one of the highest taxing govts

  73. Neil of Sydney

    I would like Matthew to answer my question if he is interested. Lefties go back 6 years to Costello tax cuts but say nothing about six years of Swan tax cuts.

    Furthermore Swan had the power to raise taxes if he wanted to since he could get anything through parliament. But Swan lowered taxes and then bragged about it.

    http://www.budget.gov.au/2013-14/content/overview/html/overview_41.htm

    Furthermore some people say Howard/Costello was a high taxing govt eg Koukoulas

  74. Bacchus

    I’d like you to answer the questions I asked too Neil – you know those questions that are actually relevant to contemporary politics and on topic – but I know I’m more likely to vote Lieberal than for that to ever happen 😛

  75. Florence Howarth

    Neil, are you thick. No one is interested in what happened six years ago. Has no relevance to todays problems. None at all.

    This is not a history site. Go find one, and maybe you might find some interest in your obsessions. Better still, set up your own blog. Does not seem that hard.

    You could even reblog from this site.

  76. Neil of Sydney

    “Neil, are you thick. No one is interested in what happened six years ago. Has no relevance to todays problems. None at all.

    That is not what Matthew Donovan said. Matthew said this

    “Howard cut taxes hugely when money was flooding in. We are now paying for that.

    Matthew said what Costello did six years ago is causing us problems. And then i replied with this

    http://www.budget.gov.au/2013-14/content/overview/html/overview_41.htm

  77. Florence Howarth

    No Neil, it is not abuse, to tell you, that you are abusing this site. Do you not listen to what people say.

    Neil, what would happen to you, if you sat around a table at the local pub, and behaved as you do here? Would your behaviour be tolerated. Just think for once.

    Why do you expect to come here, showing such bad manners, and believe we have to listen, put up with your obsessions..

    You are a guest. A guest that much toleration and respect has been given, Which by the way, has not been returned by you.

  78. Bacchus

    So answer my questions first Neil – You don’t get to set the agenda here!

    – explain how the GP co-payment is going to make Medicare more sustainable
    – explain why the $80 billion cut to Health and Education funding to the states is a good idea?
    – why is cutting payments to the states to fund pensioner discounts a good idea?
    – why do you so hypocritically accept all the lies told by this government purely to get elected?
    – why can’t the ministers in this government even agree on what the measures in this budget are?

    Start with them & get back to Me Neil 🙄

  79. Michael Taylor

    “I asked a simple question and get abuse”.

    Neil, you’re lucky you’re even tolerated here long enough to get the opportunity to ask a question. Frankly, I’m getting quite sick of your constant, pathetic rants.

    Either you grow up or get out.

  80. Florence Howarth

    Neil, as many have said here, Labor and Swan were wrong to get distracted by the screams of debt is bad, Wrong to subscribe to lowering taxes at all costs.

    Such lack of guts on Labor’s part in not jettison such rubbished, that it is all about deficits that led to their being seen as incompetent. It hid all the other good reform work and their achievements over the two terms.

    We have seen politics reduced to black and white, simplistic right and wrong terms. Yes, we now can only deal with slogans, that lead nowhere.

    Yes, Neil, if you want to talk about the past in these terms, it could be relevance.

    Both Hawke and Howard gave similar warnings this week.

    I found Tanya’s warnings to the public and Abbott yesterday, very refreshing. She was talking about reality, not some parallel hemisphere, we seem to have found ourselves.

    Neil, we should not be a month later, be seeing new surprises, most nast5y, arising f4rom the budget. We should have learnt all on the night. We have ministers that have no idea what they have launched into the community., No idea at all. We have departments that still have not been told, let alone been asked before budget night.
    We have no idea where this budget come from.

    we have a huge backbench, that appear to have no input into this governments actions., We have front benchers we do not hear from. They sit behind Abbott each day with stony looks upon their faces.

    We have four or five out in front, whom seem to be able to say more than we are fixing Labor’s bad economy. Whom have no ideas what their budget is about. We have them creating their own version of how Australia’s economy works, then basing all arguments upon that belief.

    They have left out of the budget all comparisons, modelling, data and graphs that have been included since Federation.

    The PS officials and heads, have been sitting at the estimations with stunned looks on their faces, continually over ridden by the minsters. Made look fools, as they have not been let into this nine month old government is doing., It is obviously they6 have not been asked for information or advice, Not even fro the effects their budget will have on people.

    If Labor was in, all that I have said, would be across media headlines each day,

    Even so, many media commentators are making sly comments to back what I have said, Some are even going further, calling a shovel, a shovel.

  81. Kaye Lee

    “And are you a total FOOL??? You want me to believe Treasury forecasts ”

    No Neil, you go right ahead and believe Hockey’s forecasts, and completely ignore that the GFC ever happened.

    “Australia’s gross domestic product grew 1.1 per cent in the first three months of the year to bring Australia’s annual growth rate to 3.5 per cent over the 12 months to March, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics.

    The economy’s performance will surprise the government, which has projected annual growth rate of 2.75 per cent this financial year and only 2.5 per cent the next.

    “They prove that our economy is resilient — we have a very solid foundation for future growth,” Hockey said.”

    This backs up the fact that Hockey purposely wrote down forecasts, and now he wants us to say he has improved figures by getting back to what Labor and Treasury forecast. Neil, smoke and mirrors.

  82. Florence Howarth

    This government can only survived as long as it can keep the public believing there is a budget emergency caused by Labor’s debt. If the public ever cotton onto the fact they are being conned, they are finished,

    The truth is, deficits in themselves tells us nothing about the state of the economy.

    There are many more important things that come into play.

    In fact, budgets surpluses since Federation, are rare.

    Yes, most under Howard.

    Did it lead to better times, no it did not. It led to imbalance within the budget, that are of concern now.

    With it’s user pay and lowering of taxes, led to record private debt, which can be bad, Led to a greater margin between those on the bottom and those at the top. Yes, transferred wealth from the bottom to the top.

    Neil, this is why you make many angry. You are diverting attention from the truth, to this governments great fallacies, that are not only wrong, but dangerous for our future prosperity.

    Neil, we have also seen over this time, big profits made by the mining industry. Yes good, but it has also led to a high dollar and a teo tier economy. What is this government doing to address this problem. How did they contribute while in Opposition.
    \
    Yes, Labor attempted to deal with the problem but was met by at least $20 million onslaught by they miners, aided by the Opposition and media.

    Yes, Neil that MRRT was essential to help deal with what the economy was facing. The money was essential to help the sections of industry that was hit by the high dollar.

    It did not happen. Now we see Abbott distantly the weak MRRT Labor did mange to get into legalisation. Abbott should instead strengthen it, not demolishing.

    From this mob, all we hear is fixing Labor’s budget and toxic taxes.

    Truth is, taxes are needed. Sometimes they should go up. Some times down. Spending should always be under revision. Many of the cuts Abbot that made, actually support productivity, help to keep wages down.

    In fact, government spending is essential to provide the infrastructure, both human and physical, that industry needs to thrive. Yes., is needed so the country gropes. Abbott is trying to convince us, that all government spending is bad., That industry needs the government to move out, so industry can invest, and somehow we get some crumbs.

    Sorry, I do not buy that the market solves and controls all.

    That is the job of government. Government cannot outsource all it’s roles and responsibilities. They are there to serve the people, not corporations.

    We have Abbott going to Canada and the USA on the behest of the corporate world. To busy an agenda to fit in the people, he needs to talk to. He is not a CEO, he is PM.

    Sorry for the rant, but I believe this government is taking us on a wild ride down the garden path, We need to go back to basics and ask what we want from government.\

    We, the people need to reset the agenda, not Abbott and his mob.

  83. Neil of Sydney

    “No Neil, you go right ahead and believe Hockey’s forecasts

    I trust Hockey’s forecasts more than i do Swans. But forecasting is not easy.

    The only thing easy to forecast is that Labor will always rack up debt.

    Always. Always. Always. Without fail.

    Debt and deficit is in the DNA of the ALP and its supporters.

  84. Kaye Lee

    Neil,

    Please listen. The debt and deficit are forecast to be HIGHER under Coalition policies. The latest figures bear out Treasury forecasts NOT Hockey’s which raised a lot of eyebrows at the time because he purposely made the figures look bad rather than give a genuine representation.

    Yes forecasting is an inaccurate science but you want to vilify Swan for not being able to predict accurately when the world was in turmoil yet you defend Hockey who was 0.75% out in growth figures in the space of 5 months in relative stability.

  85. Bacchus

    Please listen.

    😆 Good luck with that Kaye – he never has in the six or seven years some here have been putting up with his antics…

  86. Kaye Lee

    Bacchus,

    I have been enduring Neil for a couple of years so I know the drill. I don’t expect him to listen. But he certainly is a great straight man so we can point out the lies.

  87. Neil of Sydney

    Kaye Lee

    Bacchus is right.

    Furthermore when Swan made his forecast of surplus budgets for the next 4 years, the world was not in turmoil.

    The only accurate forecast is that debt and deficit will always occur under ALP govts.

    Except for ALP govts in NSW which for some strange reason are fiscally conservative.

  88. John921Fraser

    <

    JOHN HOWARD: And that is that interest rates will always be lower under a Coalition government than under a Labor government.

    Whoops !

  89. Neil of Sydney

    “JOHN HOWARD: And that is that interest rates will always be lower under a Coalition government than under a Labor government.

    I agree with that in general. Our interest rates would be lower if it was not for Labors debt.

    Our current rates are way above the European rates because we need a high interest rate to attract money.

    Have you not seen the news? The Europeans now have a negative interest rate whatever that means.

  90. John921Fraser

    <

    Who's this moron repeating what I post ?

  91. DanDark

    Have you seen the news today
    America realise what happens when you saddle uni students with too much unnecessary debt
    And now know they need to fix the outrages loans these students have to endure
    Over one trillion dollars total it’s out of control and the country is suffering
    And so are the students
    Pyne is a fool and has no idea

  92. DanDark

    There was short clip today of pollies over in USA trying to see how
    They can rectify the huge mess they caused, they are smart the old yanks…not

  93. Möbius Ecko

    Would it be a safe bet if I predicted that Neil has still not addressed any of this current government’s failings, lies and broken promises, instead he’s harked back to Labor?

    Would I win money if I bet he has not addressed anything Abbott has done recently or discussed Abbott’s terrible past, only going on about Labor, most probably about their debt in a negative way?

    And I see this in Michael’s response. “I asked a simple question and get abuse”.

    You see Neil has no problems putting out the occasional abuse against the “leftards”. It’s not base abuse and is mostly mild by many standards, but it’s still abuse. Then every now and again when even mild abuse is thrown his way he posts that sentence almost word for word.

    But his best bit was just before I stopped reading his posts where he stated he welcomed abuse and loved it as it meant he had got under a leftard’s skin and has won. He doesn’t see the projection in this.

    So on the one hand you have him saying he wears abuse like a badge of honour and then on the other complaining about having mild abuse levelled at his idiotic and constantly repetitive posts whose sole purpose are to derail topics away from the failings of his woeful Liberal party.

  94. DanDark

    There is also a clip showing Tone’s asleep through ceremonies, the other day
    He cannot even stay awake now, or did he regard it as boring
    So took a chance to snooze, after early morning bike ride?
    In his painted on Lycra suit, geez he is a Nigel nobody 😉

  95. Michael Taylor

    Abbott probably fell asleep because he’s been reading Neil’s comments. They do that to people.

  96. LOVO

    NoS, can compress the most words into the smallest idea’s of any man I know. 😉

  97. LOVO

    Mig’s, how’s the coffee in this place… I hope the service is better than that ‘other’ place,.. ‘there’ I had to always make my own 😉 ….. but more importantly “Where’s da cellar fella” 😆 …. no really. 😮

  98. Möbius Ecko

    Cafe has gone LOVO. Help your bloody self ya lazy sod ;).

  99. Kaye Lee

    We need a replicator….until one of our unemployed scientists invents one tray service would be nice

  100. CMMMC

    Malcolm Fraser inherited no deficit from the Whitlam govt.

    Hawke inherited $40 billion deficit, courtesy of Fraser and his Treasurer J.W.Howard.

  101. DanDark

    I take Neil’s posts as a cue for a coffee break
    More pressing things in life than to read his posts 😉

  102. Neil of Sydney

    CMMMC

    Federal govt debt was about 5% of GDP (~$10B) when Fraser lost office (Table 5)

    http://www.budget.gov.au/2014-15/content/bp1/html/bp1_bst10-05.htm

    It increased to 18% of GDP under Hawke/Keating.

    Were do you get that $40B figure from?

    According to Table 5 govt debt did not reach $40B until 1992

  103. John921Fraser

    <

    A coffee break is always a good idea.

    I wonder what happened to that jerk from Sydney ?

  104. DanDark

    John
    He is taking a lemonade break,
    Kiddie power aid, makes them run up the walls though 🙂

  105. Kaye Lee

    When John Howard was Treasurer, net Government debt rose at a steady pace, hitting 7.5% of GDP when Fraser lost the 1983 election. In 1996 dollar terms, 7.5% of GDP is around $40 billion which is in fact the real level of net government debt “inherited” by the Hawke Government when it won the 1983 election.

  106. John921Fraser

    <

    I agree with both CMMMC and Kaye Lee.

    But who are you talking to ?

    No one here but Dan you 2 and myself.

  107. DanDark

    Yeah just john and I talking coffee and lemonade
    Neil’s lost steam 😉
    But reinforcing the truth is a good thing Kaye

  108. Neil of Sydney

    Kaye Lee

    You are insane.

    You say Federal govt debt was 7.5% of GDP when Fraser lost office. Guess what 7.5% of GDP is 7.5% of GDP.

    It increased to 18% of GDP in 1996 under Hawke/Keating and furthermore was increasing rapidly.

    Still don’t get where you got this $40B figure from. Debt did not reach $40B until 1992.

    Looks like you are trying to be deceitful. Twisting numbers for dishonest motives.

  109. John921Fraser

    <

    Well things are pretty quiet so I think I will go and read my book.

    Pity there's none of the intelligent right winger here to debate.

    Still the deniers will be out tomorrow …. talking to the Canadians/Americans I believe.

  110. Bacchus

    You are insane.

    There’s that abuse again!

    Kaye Lee I wish you would stop that abuse of Neil 😉

    Look up “projection” Neil. 😆

  111. Stephen Tardrew

    Neil:

    Over the top. Kaye is top researcher and backs up her statements with fact. Go find somewhere else to play. Calling Kay insane and dishonest, perforce a liar, is totally unacceptable. Kaye has been extremely patient with you and offered you her time in an open forum discussion I am sure that most on this site would agree its time for you to move on. We are not your run of the mill blog and expect certain standards to be maintained. You can disagree but calling Kaye insane and a liar is over the top. As far as I am concerned you can Buzz off. Time to give him the flick Michael. Not a demand it is your prerogative but I am certainly mightily pissed off.

  112. Neil of Sydney

    OK I lost it. So I apologise to Kaye.

    But i hate it when people twist numbers for political purposes.

    Debt was about $10B in 1983 and it increased to $96B in 1996.

    Inflation over the years would make $10B an even smaller number like when you get a home loan.

    Debt did not reach $40B until 1992.

    She got that $40B from Stephen Koukoulas not her own work.

    Koukoulas is twisting numbers for political purposes.

    To make out almost half the $96B in debt that Costello inherited is due to Fraser is just wrong.

  113. DanDark

    Stephen T
    I am with you
    I love this site, I have a great deal of respect for
    all at AIMN and there contributions, especially Kaye’s
    This wonderful independent, interactive site, with very clever people( that’s not me)
    on here, that have good mix, of common sense, a sense of humour
    and a social conscious, that have more than their own interests at heart
    in everything they say, which then flows on to what they do( actions) it’s a natural flow

    It’s not left, it’s not right, it’s just being a decent human being, that cares for their environment,
    That loves their fellow man (and their life circumstances is not how we judge people)
    Caring for our youth, educating our young( knowledge is power) respecting our elders
    Protecting our animals (they have rights not to be treated in humanely by humans)
    And contributing to peoples live in general the best way that is best for them, not me,
    not contaminating them with demonising slogans, and degradation,
    platitudes of misinformation and downright lies to confuse people

    Making a real difference to peoples lives that is a positive contribution,
    gives people hope and faith, yes life is a test, and is testing at times,
    but nothing is insurmountable, not even Tone’s & co……

  114. Michael Taylor

    Neil, please prove to us that you can engage in intelligent debate. The constant hijacking of other people’s topics will no longer be tolerated.

  115. DanDark

    Interesting show on abc 1 now called McCullin, talks about a lying rupert, it’s like a documentary
    And how the news paper changed when he bought it, for the worst

  116. Michael Taylor

    For your information, not that I know why I’m bothering to even tell you, of our 965,000 hits last month about 700,000 of them were unique hits.

    And thanks for your advice, but we’ll run this place whichever way we want to. Like it or leave.

  117. Neil of Sydney

    “Neil, please prove to us that you can engage in intelligent debate.”

    I make comments and you say it is not intelligent. That is a leftist way of silencing debate. I will admit i have made the odd abuse comment.

    But Kaye Lee made a reference to numbers provided by Stephen Koukoulas. In all my life i have never met anybody more deceitful or dishonest than Koukoulas. So i lost it. I find it interesting that you people continually link to him.

    To try and make out that 40% of the debt that Keating handed Costello in 1996 is just wrong. It is twisting numbers for political purposes.

    Same goes when you people say the Costello surplus budgets were not surplus budgets. They were structural deficits according to lefties.

    You lefties spend most of your time trying to trash the reputations of people you have a disagreement with

  118. John921Fraser

    <

    Had breakfast in the golden arches this morning and read both Murdoch's rags.

    Surprisingly there was absolutely no mention of the 'celebrity" American owner in either.

    Actually its not "surprising" because his papers very rarely mention the owner of the biggest printing house in Australia.

    That's how the extreme right wing works …. with their "freedom" of the press.

    Viva ! …. The AIMN and all others who give "kobymac" and that moron from Sydney a forum to splash what little brain power they have online.

  119. Neil of Sydney

    “”and that moron from Sydney “”

    Why am i a moron??

  120. John921Fraser

    <

    Looks like all the "Comment" from the right wingers has finished on this page.

    Surely there are some right wingers reading this.

  121. Kaye Lee

    Neil,

    ” i hate it when people twist numbers for political purposes.”

    Me too Neil which is why every time a Coalition MP says Labor left a debt of $667 billion and deficits of $123 billion I call them out for the liars that they are.

    As far as the $40 billion is concerned, you asked where it came from and I showed you.

    “She got that $40B from Stephen Koukoulas not her own work.”

    No shit Sherlock! I don’t actually conduct censuses personally. Nor do I survey 56,000 people like the ABS does. I am assuming you do all your own figures yourself from personally counting?

  122. John921Fraser

    <

    The moron from Sydney can't count let alone add up.

  123. Kaye Lee

    koby,

    “Or does Kaye Lee visit 100,000 times a month? ” You seem to enjoy coming here koby. Should I read anything into that 😉

    “On more established leftist websites, they allow commentors of all types.” Are you suggesting that you and Neil are my type?

    ” I’ve seen the same article regurgitated with a different intro and title half a dozen times in the last fortnight from Kaye Lee. Still no context.” I agree there has been a common thread of lying, deception, and corruption but I can only report what happens. As soon as they do something good I’ll be right on it.

    ” I use selfish in the context of voting – vote for the party that leaves you better off.”. I think you will find that’s why you don’t fit in so well here koby. Most people here have a social conscience where they consider how others are affected

    Thanks for your tips about how we should improve.

  124. Kaye Lee

    Neil,

    In 1985, Australia’s population was about 15.8m; now it is 23.5m. So even without inflation it’s not surprising that a government would spend (and tax) more now than it did then.

    But prices do also rise – in the past 20 years inflation has grown 69% while our GDP has increased about 240%.

    So the best way to look at government expenditure, revenue or, in this case, debt over time is to look at it as a proportion of GDP. And on this score the level of net debt of 12.5% of GDP is well below the record level of 18.1% reached in 1995-96.

  125. Neil of Sydney

    “No shit Sherlock! I don’t actually conduct censuses personally.”

    Not too sure what to say. I can only say that Stephen Koukoulas makes me upset. In all my life i have never met a more deceitful, dishonest person than Koukoulas. I would think that anybody who has any honesty would distrust anything that man says.

    And i would trust Hockeys numbers of $667B in 10 years time over anything Swan, Bowen had anything to do with.

    When Swan said we would get a surplus we got a deficit. When Swan said we would get a deficit we got an even bigger one. I would suspect that $667B debt in 10 years time would be a conservative figure if Labor did not lose office in 2013.

  126. Kaye Lee

    Swan and Bowen had nothing to do with PEFO Neil…that’s the whole point. I quote figures from the only honest appraisal which is PEFO. You just trust anything you are told by a Coalition politician which is why nobody bothers taking you seriously. You can be shown facts and you just say I would rather believe in Hockey’s lies. Absolutely pointless talking to you. Liberal is your religion of faith.

    And that lying scum Tony Abbott says nothing about that debt being a maybe in ten years time. On the official government PM’s page the prick has the hide to say “Over the last six years Labor ran up a debt of $667 billion on the nation’s credit card”. Where is your outrage for this deliberate lie Neil?

  127. Möbius Ecko

    I admire your fortitude Kaye but you might was well be banging your head against a brick wall, it would be less painful than trying to show Neil any facts.

    When presented with facts he does one of two things.

    If the fact is irrefutable he calls the author or data a lie and he wouldn’t trust it yet he has no problems directly sourcing the Liberal party propaganda and proven lies.

    If the fact is absolute and cannot be discounted he obfuscates, either changing topic altogether or ignoring it and diverting to something about Labor, usually linked to debt, but only Labor debt.

    He’s predicable to a tee, and it takes a lot of frustration and head banging to find that out to find out the best thing to do is ignore him. I pick up his stuff in replies to his inane posts so I hopefully I can give a heads up to those responding to his deliberate derailing of topics away from Liberal failures.

  128. Florence nee Fedup

    Neil, all everyone is saying, the surpluses of Costello do not have the importance you put on them.

    I hope someone can show the new cross benchers in the senate, tart removing the six CEF pieces of legalisation will cost the taxpayer dearly, That it is not about taxes, but the cheapest and most efficient way to address carbon emissions. Yes, it addresses the promise made by Gillard, tp protect the environment for future generations.

    Many of those six bills could simply be relabelled DA. and be left in place.

    What happened three governments ago is history. What Abbott and Co are doing now, will affect us well into the future.

    Mr Swan is correct. Abbott the chief CEO for corporations is behind the times. Canadian Super funds have been investing in Australia for ages.

    One should fear, that Abbott is telling the world,. that environmental regulations do not count. That they have alrady approved billions of dollars of new investment,

    Anyone aware of what these endeavours are?

    I would like our new senators to look at what taxes are about. Yes, they are the tools, that good governments use to invest in the country and our children’s future,.

    Taxes and government spending, , in themselves are not bad.

    Tax are the greaser that makes society works.

    It is nonsense to say that both spending and taxes musy always come down.

    Where does this descent stop?

    All I am asking, it the MPs look closely at those six pieces of legislation, Look at what they are attempting to do. Look at the successes they have already accrued.

    Please, they are not about a toxic tax.. They are about putting in place the necessary infrastructure to help people and industry move to a clean energy future. To move to renewal fuel for the generating of power.

    repealing the legalisation is going to see many out of work, and firms going to the wall

    Yes, it is about economics.

    Mr Abbott said there is going to be much more privatisation in Australia, and he is inviting the Canadians into buy.

    Yes, the great corporation chief CEO, is aboard, selling of Australia, to all comers.

    Yes, he is going to meet the great Australian, as Abbott seems to think. Abbott has already offered Murdoch a front row seat at the G20 in November.

  129. Florence nee Fedup

    Sorry for the typos. No matter how hard I look, they keep getting through. See them as soon as I push the sent button.

  130. Florence nee Fedup

    It is a shame thatg Abbott doesnot follow hispea inpod, bestedmate down this rabbit warren.

    ………………APRC — along with government bodies such as Automotive Partnership Canada, which supports research and development initiatives — typifies the collaborative approach to securing the auto sector’s future in Canada.

    The issue also crosses the political divide: Canada’s conservative federal government, led by Stephen Harper, doubled the level of auto industry assistance to $CA1 billion in its 2014 Budget, with the stated objective of creating and sustaining Canadian jobs.

    For Canada, the competitive threats to its domestic auto sector lie primarily in being undercut by cheaper labour costs from the US — and increasingly, Mexico. Southern US states like Tennessee engage in bidding wars to attract car industry investment — not just direct subsidies, but also tax breaks and land grants. In turn, this places pressure on Canadian governments to offer increased subsidies, such as Chrysler’s demands earlier this year for assistance to support its minivan plant in Windsor, Ontario (although it later backed from the demands).

    Federal and provincial governments in Canada have committed to retaining the auto industry because it is simply too important to let go.

    According figures provided by Unifor, 112,000 Canadians were directly employed in auto manufacturing in 2011. Counting spin-off jobs, the union says almost 400,000 Canadians depend on the continued presence
    ……

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2014/6/9/automotive/canada-and-australia-tale-two-car-industries?utm_source=exact&utm_medium=email&utm_content=784683&utm_campaign=kgb&modapt=

  131. Florence nee Fedup

    Mr Howard made a statement at the NPC when he appeared with Hawke. He said back in his time, about 45% would either be Labor or Coalition, One could count on those numbers,. That meant one could concentrate o the 10% remanning .

    An aside, the does not means one deeds all of that 10%, One needs just enough to get over the 50 mark.

    Mr Howard, said today that is not true, Party followers are more volatile. Party loyalties are breaking down. If Howard is correct , what does that mean, when we look at numbers, when predicting what will happen in the future.

    Is it a good thing?

    Personally in some ways it is. Then the other side of the coin, one could say, politics today is about polls and popularity contests, that amounts to little more than fads and slogans. No real substance to any party.

    Whatever one thinks, Howard is correct, politics in this country has changed,

  132. Florence nee Fedup

    PS Meant to add, to change the government, one only has to influence a small number of people. The beauty of the blogs, online media and the social sites, one is able to target their audiences.,

  133. Florence nee Fedup

    QandA society is not about economics. About much more. About the environment we live in.

  134. Florence nee Fedup

    Yes, coal is cheap energy, at what price, destroying the environment.

  135. John921Fraser

    <

    The response by Stuart Rees to the very first question was moved on quickly by Jones.

    How dare Stuart Rees mention Operation Sovereign Border.

    "Stop the discussion" …. brought to you by your ABC.

  136. John921Fraser

    <

    " The amount of solar energy that falls on the earth’s surface in 40 minutes equals the total annual energy consumption of all the world’s people. Put differently, 27 years’ worth of worldwide energy consumption equals only one day’s worth of solar energy hitting the earth."

    "All the energy in the earth’s reserves of coal, oil, and natural gas equal just 20 days of energy produced by the sun, but only 1% of that solar energy is used to generate power."

  137. John921Fraser

    <

    Rosalie Kunoth-Monks has completely stopped Q&A.

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