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Defending my right to say what I did about Tony Abbott

I copped a bit of flak for referring to Tony Abbott as the ‘circus clown with the big ears’ in my previous post, and probably rightly so and I apologise to those who were genuinely offended. Under normal circumstances, I would have considered it indeed an offensive comment and would not have included it, however, these are not normal times.

They were before Tony Abbott seized leadership of his party over three years ago.

“But should have I deleted it?” I asked. I thought long and hard about that until I recalled the tone of political debate in this country and how Tony Abbott had engineered it.

Tony Abbott introduced the gutter politics of the American Tea Party into our fair country and the adoring media seized upon it with filthy lust. Both they and Tony Abbott, as a glaring example, denigrated former Prime Minister Julia Gillard in a manner that makes my “circus clown with the big ears” comment appear a very limp attack on the man by comparison.

During her term as Prime Minister, she was ruthlessly ridiculed for such menial things such as having red hair, a long nose, a big bum, a Welsh accent and her unmarried status.

We witnessed hatred inspired by the shock jocks, hatred inspired by Tony Abbott, and witnessed the denigration of Parliament by Tony Abbott’s Opposition.

We heard cries from either the Opposition or the media that she should be kicked to death or tossed overboard and saw placards littering the countryside that she’s a bitch or a witch.

Tony Abbott stood in front of those signs and smirked.

One media empire even fabricated a story that she engaged in criminal activity.

And don’t forget how tens of thousands of rabid right-wingers used to lap up Pickering’s pornographic portrayal of Julia Gillard.

Offensive and insulting not just to Julia Gillard, but to all women.

Now to Tony Abbott himself. I will use words that I’ve written before, so I apologise to those who are familiar with them.

I used to think that John Howard was a mean-spirited, nasty piece of work, but in comparison to Tony Abbott he appears as kind, caring and compassionate as Mother Teresa.

Tony Abbott is far, far more mean-spirited. He demonstrates this in the way he ignores human misery and the way he belittles those who are suffering from it. He is, in a nutshell, nasty to the core.

Stories surface that he’s been inherently nasty for as long as people have known him, but it wasn’t until 2005 that some of the public first took notice of his extreme level of nastiness and lack of compassion for human misery when it was hoisted onto the national stage.

It came only hours after the NSW Leader of the Opposition, John Brogden, had attempted suicide. The Age reported at the time that:

The day after Mr Brogden was found unconscious in his electorate office with self-inflicted wounds, Mr Abbott publicly joked at two separate Liberal Party functions about the disgraced leader’s career-wrecking behaviour . . . Mr Abbott was asked at a fund-raising lunch about a particular health reform proposal and reportedly answered: “If we did that, we would be as dead as the former Liberal leader’s political prospects.”

Nasty. To the core. And to a mate.

He also claimed that Bernie Banton was a mate. Not that he acted like one.

When Tony Abbott was the Minister for Health, the dying asbestos disease sufferer Bernie Banton obtained a petition containing 17,000 signatures of those who supported the listing of the mesothelioma drug Alimta on the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme.

This petition was to be presented in person to Tony Abbott. If it wasn’t disrespectful enough to snub the petition, then his verbal response certainly was.

Yesterday, Mr Abbott was quick to dismiss the petition. “It was a stunt,” Mr Abbott said on the Nine Network.

“I know Bernie is very sick, but just because a person is sick doesn’t necessarily mean that he is pure of heart in all things.”

He loves making fun of dying people. Does he expect we’ll all laugh along with him?

He even has a go at deceased people. Margaret Whitlam wasn’t even in the grave before Tony Abbott used her death to score cheap political points.

The death of Margaret Whitlam caused such an outpouring of saddened fondness that comments by the Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott, linking her passing with the sins of the Whitlam government appear to have struck an extremely wrong note.

He said she was a ”woman of style and substance” and ”a marvellous consort to a very significant Labor leader and an epochal Australian prime minister”.

”There was a lot wrong with the Whitlam government but nevertheless, it was a very significant episode in our history and Margaret Whitlam was a very significant element in the political success of Gough Whitlam,” Mr Abbott said.

Nasty. To the core.

And let’s not forget the role he played in the jailing of Pauline Hanson. After One Nation shocked the Coalition by winning 11 seats in Queensland in June 1998, Abbott was determined to dig up every piece of dirt he could on Hanson. In his own words, on her demise he boasts this was:

“All my doing, for better or for worse. It has got Tony Abbott’s fingerprints on it and no-one else’s.”

And of course, there’s the now famous Barbara Ramjan incident.

His nastiness was contagious to the Liberal Party and many of its members and supporters have been affected under his leadership. It is a point that I and many others have expressed, but I do like what Dave Horton had to say some time ago, which I often refer to:

“In effect all shock jocks and populist politicians are painting targets on people who do not share their views. In Australia the people who said the Prime Minister was a “witch” or a “cheap prostitute whoring herself” who should be “drowned in a sack” or “kicked to death” were inviting violence in a way that should not be permitted in a civilised society whether applied to the prime minister or the unfortunate woman who was the partner of Car Park Man.

Bullying, in home, school, workplace is rightly taken very seriously these days. And it is clearly recognised that verbal bullying can cause as much distress and psychological damage as physical actions.

Yet we facilitate, protect, applaud, the bullying and incitement to bullying that takes place every day in our media. Target after target of helpless and/or vulnerable groups (Aborigines, gays, single mothers, unemployed, refugees, public housing tenants, environmentalists, unions) are chosen day after day by bully boy and bully girl shock jocks and politicians. And day after day there are attempts by the same people to denigrate, delegitimise, degrade, political and philosophical opponents. Day after day words are twisted, lies told, rage consequently incited.”

If you need reminding of how hateful the media has been, here it is in an early article Pedlars of Hate.

Dave Horton summed up the landscape of the last three years and those of the right-wing have, as Dave notes, applauded it. Am I right to assume that it is those same people who now take offence at me referring to Tony Abbott as the “circus clown with the big ears”?

Yes, it was inappropriate for me to use those words, and although I won’t resort in future to such wording, I defend my right to have used them.

For over three years the left has been subject to the most hysterical attacks of personal abuse and if those of the right now object to such behaviour being fired back in return, then all I can say is … deal with it.

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  1. rossleighbrisbane

    Ok, so why does Tony have big ears?
    A: Noddy wouldn’t pay the ransom.

  2. o1dbh8k

    Do Not Apologise for your very Tame Remark! I, personally have called him much worse to his face.

  3. rossleighbrisbane

    The IPA will back you, “The only kind of free speech worth anything is the kind that leads to speech that offends people.” Speech by James Allan

    Whether that’s a good thing,I’m not sure, but it certainly means that extreme right won’t be able to complain!

  4. Grabrand

    Is Wayne ‘Cert8’ on tonight.

  5. Tony I Cantstandya

    Yes I am offended. I’m offended that you would refer to this idiot as a man. You probably also offended the circus clown community.

  6. Ben Bos

    Your words were not inappropriate. They were completely proportionate to his demeanor generally. He should be ashamed of the person he is.

  7. Roswell

    Michael, you’re too old fashioned. They don’t say “deal with it” anymore. The new term is “suck it up, princess”. Get with the times. 🙂

  8. Pam Rawlings

    I think Abbott deserves everything he gets and more. I have no respect for him at all and never will have. He either Attacked Julia mercilessly or condoned and encoraged others to. He is an abslutely loathsome Turd. So I agree with you,. If people do not like what was written by you then too bad. My only question about that is where were these people when Julia was getting bullied relentlessly. Oh thats right most of the Australian public joined with Abbott and his cronies and Murdoch and sunk the boots in.
    I will do the same with Abbott, Hockey, Pyne and Brough whenever I can. I will take every opportunity to belittle them and show up their stupidity any time I Can. Keep up the good work, I really enjoy reading your pieces.

  9. Emily Davison

    One thing that sometimes get missed in the outrage about the Bernie Banton comment, is he blamed Banton for those comments, in his explanation (faux apology) he said ““were both a bit hot under the collar yesterday and both regretted it” (saying he regretted it, is NOT the same as an apology). And how lovely of him to speak on behalf of someone else

    But that is his pattern, in his apology for the Brogden comments he said “I just want to make it clear I have never told an inappropriate joke, I’ve never pinched a woman on the backside and I never make inappropriate gestures to women.” <- thats the apology

    When Tony was talking about gay people, he had to apologise for his apology:
    Tony Abbott said: (about homosexuality) I probably feel a bit threatened, as so many people do. It’s a fact of life.

    then while apologising for the feeling threatened comment,
    Tony Abbott said: There is no doubt that (homosexuality) challenges, if you like, orthodox notions of the right order of things.

    then while explaining why that! was a poor choice of words,
    Tony Abbott said: Yeah look it was a poor choice of words. Look, I think blokes of my generation and upbringing do sometimes find these things a bit confronting

  10. kayelee1

  11. The Lion

    Forgotten in this long study on Tony Abbott is his endorsement of Priests molesting children when he went into a court and became a character Witness for a man charged as a Pedophile who was raping altar boys as a Priest, a man who even the Catholic Church defrocked for his activities!

  12. Alison White

    If only what lies between those enormous ear was as big – Abbott is seemingly bereft of wisdom or wit.

  13. Carol Taylor

    Michael, your comments about Tony having ears pales into insignificance compared with Abbott’s silence on many issues. For example his silent endorsement of Cori Bernardi’s offensive comments where he stated that the next step after gay marriage was the legalisation of bestiality. Even Howard would have made an attempt to disassociate himself from such comments, but not Abbott. Often Abbott’s silence speaks louder than any of his words.

  14. Catty

    As compassionate as Mother Teresa? The Mother Teresa who believed suffering was good for the soul so used not one cent of the millions of dollars in donations she received to improve conditions in her hospital or buy pain killers for her patients? The Mother Teresa who sought treatment in luxurious and expensive hospitals during her own illness?

    Actually, fair comparison. Forget I said anything.

  15. J.Fraser


    Thankfully Michael Taylor did not get started on "Slick" Abbott's friends …. Gina "fuc my children" Hancock, Rupert "fuc dead teenagers and frak Australia" Murdoch and Cardinal George "fuc the abused" Pell.

    In advance I apologise for my implied swearing.

    Not the guts of my "Opinion".

  16. xiaoecho

    Australia will never be the same after Abbott.

  17. Mav Minnis

    I don’t think it’s simply nastiness……I think it is a total inability to empathise and that points to a much darker and more sinister diagnosis.

  18. Wen

    And now for the real elephant in the room that has nothing to do with big ears or clowns, both of which are more than likely applicable in the circumstances.

    Indications of sociopathy: delusions of grandeur, pathological lying, inability to take responsibility for own behaviour, absence of conscience, Jekyll and Hyde character, deceptive behaviour, pursues vindictive vendettas, is highly manipulative. Etc. etc.

    Enough said I’m thinking.

  19. Colin Thai

    Michael great tribute to Abbott as far as I’m concerned, I have a few more beautiful !!! Names for him in my head… I cannot believe anybody being upset about it. Anyway his arms length approach to gays, well I’ve worked with gay guys and girls in my time, and the only thing I can think of is that maybe he’s got a wee problem himself, well I’m only putting my opinion to this great forum. ” what’s that banging on my front door” oh no ! It’s Abbotts storm troopers !!! Thanking you all great articles…….

  20. Fed up

    “They were before Tony Abbott seized leadership of his party over three years ago.”

    Yes and changed the rules. Trashed all conventions, that allow some level of decency.

    Now anything goes. That according to Mr. Abbott. All that counts is winning,even if one has to destroy all in your path.

    Would like to wipe out his recent behavior.

    All that one will see on these sites, are reports of what Abbott, has done, or said .

    You will see his policies taken apart,

    Yes, and if they past muster, even get our support.

    Some need to grow up, and mixed in the real world, where people have many different and conflicting opinions

    Mr. Abbott will be given the same respect he gave previous PMs. No more, no less.

    Now it would be great for the country, if he proves us to be wrong. That would be the best result for all.

    Instead of telling us, we are wrong, why not tell us where we are wrong. More productive for all.

    We live in a democracy. In a democracy, one has the right to disagree. One has the right, to protest, to try and get policy changed. hat is democracy.

    Some seem to think, that democracy begins and ends at the ballot box. It does not. A part of any democracy is the right to express onions and to protest.

    Go read the Constitution. Legislation does not become law, until past by a majority of MPs on the floor of both houses, Does not say, once the PM is declared, he has the power of a dictator. In fact it does not mention PM or parties.

    It amazes me, that three years ago, you same people refused to respect the Gillard minority government. Wanted a immediate rerun of the elections.

    It was a duly legitimate government put in place, according to th Constitution. Abbott and those never respected it’s legitimacy, and spent three years, trying to destroy.

    Do not tell us how we need to behave, or what we need to do.

    Does not work that way.

    Do not waste your time, telling me my grammar is lousy. I know. I do my best.

    I am sure would not say, I am not allowed to express my opinion, because of lack English skills.

    Some that visit this site, should remember there manners.

  21. roger kite

    complain all you want, you sick commo’s. After I was called a dinosaur and an extremist for protesting a tax we were told we would not have, I don’t really care what is said about you lot! ha fkn ha!

  22. ron janda

    Abbott exclaims he will leave no Australian behind makes me ill, as long as your not gay, pensioner, unemployed or a woman you’ll be right.

  23. kayelee1

    “Cardinal Pell is a fine man… Cardinal Pell is one of the greatest churchmen that Australia has seen.” – Tony Abbott on Cardinal George Pell

    “Abortion is a worse moral scandal than priests sexually abusing young people.” – Cardinal George Pell

  24. Fed up

    Going to enjoy Abbott and his front bench, entertaining the new USA Ambassador and his same gender spouse.

    I believe that Obama has a wicked sense of humour.

    Sending us a man, that believes in unions, known for raising money for charity,

    Both he and his spouse like wearing knitted jumpers, and into sport.

    In fact, spouse has achievements in this chosen sport.

    Yes, a lightweight ambassador. Must not be expecting much from Abbott.

  25. richo

    THanks for sharing that video Kaylee it is good to be reminded the ilk of the mongrels now in power. Helps us to maintain the rage – if their terrible actions are not enough that is.

  26. Fed up

    roger, we are not complaining. We are telling you mob to shut up, you have no right to tell others how to behave.

    As Abbott said of Australia, it will not be reaching above it’s station under him. Sadly that is true.

    Abbott and the mob he travels with, definitely reach above their station. In fact, they are bringing Australia down with them.

    Have done so, for the last six years. I am not as generous as Michael, it began with the demise of the Howard government or some would say, before that.

  27. Fed up

    kayelee1, Pell will be fully occupied, as the Royal Commission into Institutional; abuse of children proceeds.

    Has anyone heard Bough’s named mentioned in the last couple of weeks.

  28. Fed up

    That video, is one of the best I have seen.

  29. Que of Brisvegas

    Yes, I believe you were insulting Clowns and people with big ears because clearly Tony Abbott is a f*ckwit.

  30. Carol Taylor

    The Lion, unfortunately Abbott’s conservative roman catholic values align themselves with statements from his mentor Cardinal Pell (and Abbott did indeed say that he considered Pell as fulfilling this role). Pell’s support of one pedophile priest included the statement that the child was “wise beyond her years”. The lady came forward to present to the press a photo of this supposed young Lolita, a photo of herself age 13yrs.. a chubby child who looked more like 10 and clearly (in her own words) pre-pubescent.

  31. Fed up

    Yes, for the first two days we heard plenty. Today, has been silent, Not a peep to be heard. Could have so meting to do with the WA Premier. I

    heard that his Indigenous plans, drawn up by Pearson and Mundine where to be released, Well that is what Mr Mundine said

    Some of what he has been up to, since day one, on Wednesday.

    “…………Since the election, Abbott has maintained a dignified silence while diligently realising the worst fears of the left. Just to recap, in his first three days in office, Abbott has:

    – Shut down Professor Tim Flannery’s Climate Commission.

    – Abolished the science portfolio and split its duties between the Minister for Industry and the Minister for Education. (The sport portfolio remains intact.)

    – Merged AusAID with the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

    – Sacked three department heads in the public service.

    – Created a ‘Bleeding Heart’ portfolio, delegating all the Labor-ish bits of governance — multicultural affairs, aged care, disability, housing, and migrant and refugee settlement (don’t laugh) — to Kevin Andrews.

    – Appointed himself as Minister for Womens Policies and Programs and Indigenous Affairs.

    Let’s just dwell on that last one, shall we? Feel that indignation rising? Scarcely able to form a coherent response to such a display of arrogance? Perfect. Tony just trolled you.

    Emanating from a right-wing archetype such as Abbott, such words and actions reduce intelligent, compassionate, reasonable commentators to blind rage. They provoke his opponents into behaving in the sort of shrill, self-righteous, elitist (see Jeff Sparrow in The Guardian for an excellent exposition of this point), hypocritical manner that the Murdoch press has long claimed to be characteristic of the left, creating a veritable paddock of straw men and straw women bleating from the wayside at those with the courage to travel the road of progress.

    Moving away from that baroque metaphor, Abbott’s conduct is so infuriating — and so ingenious — because he simply doesn’t engage with criticism at the level of its articulation. The consistent objectification of females doesn’t suggest a pattern of misogyny; bragging about your hot daughters is nothing worse than daggy, an awkward articulation of loving pride, end of discussion. Without engagement, there’s no debate. And if there’s no debate, there’s no chance for reasonable rebuttal.

    There’s just an impotent rage, a stream of invective, and all of a sudden, Tony Abbott is the victim.

    That’s right, he’s your victim, because you’re not merely you, you’re The Left, a Latte Sipper with a Sense of Entitlement and no understanding of the Real Australia. You’re a Do-Gooder who would rather piss Taxpayers’ Money against the wall than offer Hard-Working Australians a Fair Go. You’re not angry because Abbott’s views offend your sense of fairness and make you ashamed to be Australian: you’re angry because Snivelling Outrage is the Default Position of The Left.

    In the past, Abbott has expressed his belief that the office of Prime Minister would “raise him to a higher status“, to confer upon him its innate nobility. Possibly this was more out of hope than expectation — but if he is able to lower the quality of the debate that surrounds him while remaining silent himself, he will have realised his ambition by default: Statesman Tone, above the fray.

    Edward Sharp-Paul is a freelance writer and drink-pourer from Melbourne. His words can be found at FasterLouder, Mess+Noise, Beat and The Brag. He also runs his mouth off under the cunning alias @e_sharppaul..”

    Maybe Tony Abbott Is Just Trolling Us All

  32. K Lee

    I was one of the ones that didn’t agree with the big ears comment, but it’s because I believe focussing on someone’s personal appearance is reminiscent of the last few disgusting years of public liberal behaviour. There is plenty of ammo about Tony’s character, personality, values, principles (or lack thereof) and intelligence (or lack thereof), as you have proved above. The man opens his own mouth to prove his stupidity on a regular basis.
    Campbell Newman has the same disgusting lack of morals as Tony. When in the Bris council he apparently made very offensive comments during a chamber session about a member’s blood pressure just after the man’s wife had died of a heart-attack (leaving the man a widower with 2 small children).

  33. rossleighbrisbane

    I guess Roger Kite said it best

    “complain all you want, you sick commo’s. After I was called a dinosaur and an extremist for protesting a tax we were told we would not have, I don’t really care what is said about you lot! ha fkn ha!”

    Ok, Abbott has big ears. so did Billy McMahon. We can laugh at them all we like, but in the end, it’s what’s in his head and in his heart that counts. If the Roger Kite and the Wayne’s of this world (Wayne’s World, that’s ironic) complain about personal abuse, they’re just hypocrites.

    And I think we have more than enough to criticise Abbott about. We don’t need to point out that he has big ears and a personality disorder. His policies will be more than enough.

    When Howard was Prime Minister, no-one in the left picked on his deafness. They’re wasn’t even a dog-whistle about how he had trouble listening to audinary people (pun intended). We don’t have to go down the path that Abbott went down. We don’t need to bring up the rumours of why he left the priesthood. Or any of the other rumours about his personal life.

    We can be better than that.
    We are better than that.
    And calling him “a clown with big ears” is objectionable and just gives those smug bastards like Wayne a chance to feel better.

    Besides, clowns make people laugh and perform some useful social function.

    Whereas Abbott just makes people laugh. But that’s overseas, and they don’t have to live with him.

  34. Möbius Ecko

    The hypocrisy I knew would occur, I saw it during Howard’s reign, has begun. I stated before the election if Abbott won this would happen and it’s already started.

    A conversation thread on social media mentioned a few home truths about Abbott in unflattering terms. Abbott apologists jumped in and said those making the comments should show respect to the PM and the office of the PM.

    A couple of other conversations since then have also had the right exclaiming that deference should be shown to the PM or Abbott now he is PM, no matter what you think of him personally.

    Compare that to the viscous vitriol spewed forth at Gillard by the right across the media, some of the foulest stuff I’ve ever read against a sitting Prime Minister, and the response on pulling them up was always she doesn’t deserve respect. Now I wonder where they got that from, one Tony Abbott.

    By his own past and recent behaviour Abbott has eschewed all redress to respect and deserves the rotten crop he has sown thrown back at him.

  35. Geoff Currey

    This article gave me an erection

  36. Wen

    I agree that we can be better than referring to Abbott’s ears and his behaviour reflecting that of a person suffering from a personality disorder ( which in fact was not meant to insulting but informative as in this is why he behaves the way he does. also personality disorders are not mental illness) but I guess people are so offended by the years of bullying, harassment and worse that many people are angry and frustrated at the current level of hypocrisy being exhibited by the current government. And that now Abbott is a born again statesman it possibly infuriates those of us with some sense of moral conscience.

    I will never condone some of the more vicious comments but I do understand people wanting some sense of vengeance and rightful indignation, knowing full well that most comments to that end on this page will never be contemplated or enacted in the real sense.

    Seeing that the moral high ground has been claimed by followers and members of the LNP for the foreseeable future I can understand those of us with with more leftist leanings not wanting to join them there just yet. I expect the more vitriolic remarks will dissipate shortly and will gain more focus on issues of policy but for the moment I fully understand wanting blow off steam. I would also add that I see very few remarks from leftist contributors that are anywhere near as offensive as those from the local LNP trollers, but I do get your point.

    People are frustrated and I think a little afraid of what the past days actions on the part of the present government will affect the wider community and it is showing in the posts, as long as it doesn’t get to level of the posts that have been quoted, I am prepared to be tolerant for a while.

  37. kayelee1

    For LNP voters to demand respect for the office of PM after what we have witnessed for the last three years is almost intolerable. I also dislike physical lampooning but the majority of comments on both this thread and the earlier one have been devoted to an examination of past actions and comments by Tony Abbott and others as well as future policies. Appointing himself as Minister for Women’s Affairs and Indigenous Affairs is so insulting, so arrogant, that it has understandably evoked outrage.

    You want me to respect a man whose every utterance goes against every belief I hold. Should Germans have respected Hitler because the President appointed him Chancellor? Tony Abbott was elected by lying to the Australian people about the state of our economy, our cost of living, the facts about climate change, the cost of FttP NBN, the threat from asylum seekers, and a multitude of other things.

    I will never respect this man. I will forever hold him in contempt for lying to the people he is supposed to represent.

  38. Wen

    Kaylee1 consider the ‘like’ button pressed.

  39. Ken Brown

    Michael, I am annoyed that you apologised…..other than that I think you did a fantastic job writing about what so many of us think of Tony Abbott (and his LNP cronies). I have always thought this man would be a disaster as PM of Australia and unfortunately am beginning to be proved correct

  40. Ricky Pann

    Tone set the Tone . He lowered political discourse to its lowest ebb in Australian history and disrespected the he wears it. He tained the bed he lies in and now commands the respect with which he contemptuously treated the office he so desired with desperate lust.

  41. dave the brickie

    Mythbusters proved it and the LNP,with help from the witch from Wycheproof have also shown it to be true.Apparently it is possible to polish a turd.Tony will get no respect from me . He deserves back all that he has dished out.Right wing projection is all he knows.It has rubbed off on J. Bishop also.Having been involved in the Ashby conspiracy,she is the first to throw the ‘conspiracy theory’ at anyone who questions Murdoch’s biased press.She also deserves to be pilloried and is delusional if she thinks she deserves any less sh*t than was thrown at Julia Gillard.Besides that,Tony has got big ears.And he does not need anyone to caricature him in cartoons, as he is proving to be a real life caricature of a Prime Minister. Karma dictates that you get back what you give.Bring it on.

  42. mludowykm

    Abbott showed no respect for Julia Gillard, the Labor government and its mandate, the parliament or the Australian people. He does not deserve our respect. Give him hell, I say.

  43. doctorrob54

    Words can not express what a lowlife peace of living human excrement Abbott really is,and when he is dead and gone his passing will bring me no more sadness then that of Pol Pot or any other cretin that lied and manipulated their way to the top.And on his tombstone all he deserves is.

  44. doctorrob54

    And no I am not sorry,I do not apologize and I mean what I say.This living entity is not just mean,he is the epitome of evil.

  45. didyoureallyvoteforthisclown

    i dont know who voted for this guy.. he reminds me of that nasty evil sourcer in Aladdin – hope someone out there has a magic lamp to trap him in for eternity. We USED to have an amazing country – years of progress in the right direction finally and this moron will ruin in a matter of a year tops! I can only say im devastated and think australians have made a terrible mistake and the rest of us will suffer.

  46. kayelee1

    doctorrob54, whilst sharing your revulsion, I don’t think Tony is consistent enough to be the epitome of anything really other than a mindless puppet for sale to anyone who would help him in his ambition to finally be captain. He is now completely out of his depth because, whilst hoping it could happen, I am sure even he never really believed it actually would. So now he has the crown he is fast realising that this isn’t a rugby game or a boxing match and he has no idea how to handle it. Peta Credlin is now running our country and that is what is TRULY scary.

  47. sp

    Oh my! who won the election and by how many seats?…must be quite a few people who do believe in Abbot and his TEAM! To take leadership and make hard responsible decisions I suppose is going to upset some people! I think the majority of Australians voted for him for a very good reasons!

  48. kayelee1

    The majority of people in Warringah voted for Tony Abbott. More people voted Labor than Liberal. And I would be very interested to read what “very good reason” made you vote for a party led by Peta Credlin but then again, reasons aren’t Liberal voters best thing. Oh for a conservative who actually expressed an informed opinion based on factual evidence. From what I can see they are all fools ready to be told what to think by Rupert Murdoch and happy to be lied to by Tony Abbott. I would welcome some sort of reasoned discussion of policies to make me change my mind on that.

  49. Kylie

    I thought ur description was vague albeit colourful… I feel my comment that he is the result of an abortion bucket mishap… Said mishap being that somehow this mutant survivec

  50. Heather

    The sad fact is the bullies are now ruling in Australia after a long chaotic and torturing tantrum by boy Abbott and his cronies. Maintain the rage is the best move.

  51. Rob Fuscate

    How can the truth be so offensive
    1/. The Liebrals have turned Parliament into a circus
    2/. Abbott is just a nasty clown – albeit not a funny one
    3/. He does have big ears


  52. patsy

    agree with all the clown comments…yes it is an insult to the circus and clowns but haw about evil…liar…hypocrite….idiot…..he did not get the vote because he is a nice person…but because he is a fake

  53. PeterF

    Since Abbott became leader of the Liberals he has orchestrated spin in which every mention of the Labor party or it’s leaders has a negative aspect. Eventually, this negativity became so ingrained in discussion about the then Government that the general population came to believe that Julia Gillard and her team were complete failures. No amount of evidence to the contrary could sway this misconception deliberately nurtured by Abbott.

    By his actions he has brought the whole system into disrepute. He could have acted in the interests of the country and been a constructive leader of the opposition, but he did not. History will show that he damaged this country during his time as opposition leader: It will possibly be overshadowed by what happens while he is PM.

    Remember, the Liberals had a reasonable, constructive leader who was replaced by Abbott by one vote in cabinet. Australia has suffered ever since.

    You will also note that his spin now extends to including the words ‘calm and reasonable’ into every discussion of current actions by his government. ‘No surprises’ is part of this. Don’t believe for one moment that the spin has ceased.

    By commenting on his appearance rather than his actions, we fall into the trap of allowing his supporters to dismiss our outrage. I will try not to fall into that trap, even though I might agree with what you have written.

  54. Allan H

    Come on people, be objective, so caught up in you labor victim mentality. The unions are the biggest bullies on the block. It wasn’t the media or Tony’s negative agenda that caused Julia’s downfall, it was that white-anting backbencher Kevin Rudd that continually dropped her in the shit by leaking internal information and generally undermining her every move. Oh that’s right i seem to remember another elected labor member getting the knife a little earlier in the piece also. Oh wait is that honest Craig Thompson warbling in the background. lets call an election campaign so sitting members can’t be removed and hold on to our lovely one seat majority. This election people you were out voted out played and Labor internally combusted. Have your free speech, it’s a democracy but take the nations decision gracefully for once will you. See you in four years hopefully with Chris Bowen the nice guy in charge.

  55. J.Fraser


    @Allan H

    That sound you can hear is most likely Geoff Shaw in Victoria's parliament.

    Warbling the exact tune you mention.

    Thompson is no longer an M.P.

  56. Geoff Of Epping

    Do not apologise… fact I will repeat it……Tony Abbott is a circus clown with big ears, and I’ll add, for good measure, he is a prick of the first order, a hypocrite and a hateful power hungry asshole with a small dick and a brain to match.
    Anyone wanna complain? Suck it up.

  57. Möbius Ecko

    Sorry Allan H you only tell part of the story in an effort to excuse the crass behaviour of Abbott.

    Gillard was undermined on three fronts, Abbott, who was vile in his attacks against her, the media, who were just as bad as Abbott, and Rudd.

    Rudd alone would never have bought down Gillard and I believe history won’t be kind to Rudd but will be to Gillard.

    History will record that for a time Australian politics was dominated by IT with big ears aided and abetted by a media wanting to ensure they got their puppet clown into government.

  58. mludowyk

    I think the boxing has damaged his frontal lobe

  59. Allan H

    Lets agree Mobius Ecko, politics is crass. No it did not take Rudd alone to bring down Julia, it took 57 votes from her Labor mates. Why is it that opinion polls can call Tony Abbott the least popular potential PM poll after poll, month after month, yet the LNP holds strong with him and the team ethos, but the minute Labor sniff Julia’s decline based on an opinion poll, out she goes. How can I vote for a rabble who can’t keep their own ship afloat. Lets not even start with the best treasurer in the world never to deliver a surplus. One thing for sure it’s passionate, frustrating at times and fun to debate. Good luck next time.

  60. mludowyk

    Allan H – free speech is not much use when the media can fabricate stories to damage reputation. Did you read the ruling from the Press Council this week on the misleading reporting on Gillard and her time at Slater & Gordon. An apology after the event does not undo the damage done a few months back. Abbott only won the election because he lied and lied and lied and the Murdoch media lied as well

  61. J.Fraser

    As usual no apology from the “Allan H” in relation to …. “Oh wait is that honest Craig Thompson warbling in the background. lets call an election campaign so sitting members can’t be removed and hold on to our lovely one seat majority. ”

    Or perhaps he thinks politics is only Federal.

    Just keep singing that hypocrisy song “Allan H”.

  62. Allan H

    Hi mludowyk, Hopefully people look at the overall picture before deciding on their vote. Every election mud raking is the norm. Lets look at instances like McMahon with Ray King the beneficiary and to swing over the other side of politics previously Jacky Kelly in Lindsay with her fake pamphlet deliveries. Believe me when I say I have never ever discussed Julia Gillard and Slater and Gordon as an issue of major significance. Just the cherry on top really. Of course media show bias as the ABC do for Labor, 2GB for LNP etc. As in all cycles they will be back and can start afresh with no debt and a lovely surplus to work with. All the best.

  63. Amanda

    All I can think is that it is such a terrible shame that as an Australian we are forced to exercise our right to vote. Perhaps if this were not the case, people would leave the voting to those who have an interest in politics and how our government is run.

    Instead, we have people voting for parties for reasons like:
    – They like the name (Yes, a friend of mine actually voted for a party because she liked their name.)
    – Because their friend was the candidate in their area.
    – They want a budget surplus (Without giving a thought to where the cost would have to come from.)
    – They think the Carbon Tax was causing their problems (But didn’t realise that even if the Carbon Tax was abolished, most companies would be loathe to reduce their costs when they already have you paying a higher price.)
    – They want a change from the ALP Government (But didn’t research what the change would mean for Australia, and wouldn’t dare think of voting for a minor party.)

    I won’t deny people the change they wanted, but I also won’t be silent as the Government makes a mockery of the thoughts and needs of the people they are there to serve. I will cringe with embarrassment every time I realise that THIS is the man that represents me throughout the world. It is not about his appearance, or even his lack of meaningful public speaking skills. It is about his blatant disregard for progress. Whether or not you agree with Climate Change, surely you can agree that it is a good idea to look after the world? It is the only place we have to live…yet.

    Whether or not you are homosexual, surely you can understand that the times are changing. It is time to move forward and allow for equality.

    Whether or not you are a woman, surely you can see that holding women back is only preventing you from allowing half a nation to work with you.

    A Government is not in power to serve some people. Whether I voted LNP or not, they are still there to serve me; I will be here to try to speak out, to encourage discussion and to try to improve our country.

    I will say this, I am not generally an ALP voter. I am what I think of as a realistic anarchist. I idealise a form of anarchy, but realise that people are not ready for that way of life. Instead, I vote for minor parties who align with my values, and then I carefully decide to to preference first, based on policy and the personality of the person leading the party. Yes – personality. I think it would be immature to suggest that the person leading the party has no effect on the way the Government is run. That is why I put LNP almost last on my ballot (only before the Christians who want to force their religion into my politics). Abbott is not the kind of person you want in charge of a country.

  64. beinghuman

    The saddest part about the results of this election – from my pov – is we now have a government without a shred of humanity. Those of us able to step back from nationalistic ideals understand we Australians are merely a bunch of human beings living on just another piece of land on a planet inhabited by other human beings – all with the same bunch of problems and issues. By choosing to attempt to exclude ourselves from humanity (ie. ‘turning back the boats’) we separate ourselves from not just what we perceive as the ‘problems’ but the ‘solutions’ too. My only apology here is not for verbalising my perspective in a forum which may not appreciate it, but, to my daughter, and her kids, for the regressive policies implemented as a result of this retrograde election result.

  65. Elise Jenkin

    Your words were far too kind if anything. I cannot utter the man’s name without adding a number if expletives and references to all manner of terrible things. Slander away I say …

  66. Möbius Ecko

    “Of course media show bias as the ABC do for Labor…”

    Just because you keep saying it doesn’t make it fact Allan H. The ABC is not biased for Labor and probably never has been.

    How do you explain a stacked enquiry held by Howard finding there was a slight bias in the ABC, for his government and against the Labor opposition?

    Unless you can provide the facts and prove the ABC is biased, not just because your ideology makes you see bias, then just saying it’s Labor biased doesn’t make it so.

  67. Fed up

    Tune into ABC 24. Interesting. The hidden government, that has hidden everything. Even ministers do not know what is going on.

    Evidence of vindictive vendetta going on.

  68. Fed up

    Culture of secrecy is aboard.

  69. Möbius Ecko

    Allan H.

    They held tight to Abbott even in light of his personal unpopularity because he and the media that supported him, including the ABC, and using a constant stream of polling kept the 2PP ahead of Labor. If the Coalition’s Primary or 2PP had gone below Labor’s then I’m fairly certain Abbott would have been abandoned, but Murdoch wouldn’t have wanted to let him go as he could not have guaranteed anyone else would have been such an easy controlled puppet.

  70. Möbius Ecko

    You do understand government debt don’t you Allan H. Wait of course you don’t or otherwise you would not have made the ignorant statement you did.

    Do you know that Hockey is also going to bring in a stimulus package by borrowing a swag of money, a stimulus he absolutely bagged when in opposition.

    When you talk about Treasurers the worst ever was Howard under Fraser but it looks like eleventy Hockey will beat that terrible record.

  71. Dan Rowden


    All I can think is that it is such a terrible shame that as an Australian we are forced to exercise our right to vote. Perhaps if this were not the case, people would leave the voting to those who have an interest in politics and how our government is run.

    Firstly, we’re not forced to vote, just to register at a place of polling. That aside, the simple reality is voluntary voting in this country would see the Conservatives permanently in government. Most political analysts in this country will concede this. It is a sad but undeniable fact that Labor has a significant voting base of the politically disengaged. It’s unfortunate, but frankly, Labor needs them.

  72. teddysea

    TAbbot and his band of nasties have changed politics in Australia forever. Gone is any bipartisanship for the good of Australia. In it’s place Abbot has raised the feral head of total obstructionism and vicious lies and character assassination to bring down a government.
    He is not worthy to be called a shit of a man.

  73. Amanda

    Dan –
    Yes, I realise you can just register at the place of polling and not actually submit a ballot, but I do wonder how many people go to the effort of showing up on polling day to place a blank sheet of paper.

    Thanks for the rest of your comment…I did base my thoughts on this on people that I know. People who vote one way or another because of who their family votes for or who they have always voted for, rather than based on policies.

  74. Dan Rowden


    I actually have less time for people who vote according to policy. I’m not sure I even know what it means to do so. Let me explain: ordinarily policy will be philosophy and ideology driven, down party lines, therefore voting for a party because it’s just the party you vote for is totally sensible to me – for the most part (given an understanding of your party’s philosophy etc). To me, for example, voting for the Coalition because you think their PPL system will be good for you would be a cynical, selfish and ultimately insane action, taken by itself. I’m possibly old-fashioned in that I believe the socio-economic philosophy of a given party is the thing that actually matters. Quality of policy will always ebb and flow. I may be also showing my age in thinking that such a distinction between the major political forces in this country still exists, sort of.

    I think too many people have lost sight of this and have become Personal Policy Pickers, electing to vote on the basis of a few arbitrary policies they like and believe will benefit them and ignoring the bigger picture. I’m being somewhat simplistic here, of course, given the limits of the comment format, but I have more time for people who vote down “big picture” lines than those that pick and choose individual policies.

  75. Peter Hamrol

    Your description of Mr. ABBOTTOMY is an apt one … After all, puppets are just one part of the circus and the PM/Usurper leads the cast … How do we get rid of the Chief Puppet … Easy as pie … Everyone boycotts the Master Puppeteer’s Media organisation and hey presto, he loses the monopoly of propaganda circulation … Social media is where the truth is told and everyone has the chance to put in their opinion without any censorship …

  76. Not required

    Michael, All I can say is…”Pot, Kettle”!

  77. Möbius Ecko

    Not required all I can say is that Abbott set the standards for the pot and kettle so his supporters can’t complain if he is held to the same standards.

    Yet it seems that’s exactly what’s happening.

    They were all for Abbott’s low base standard when he was in opposition but now are crying that Abbott cannot be held to that standard and are attacking anyone who attempts to do so.

    There’s a word for it… that’s right, hypocrite.

  78. doctorrob54

    Good points Dan Rowden.Cheers.

  79. george hanson

    Just logged onto the ABC website -‘AUSTRALIA VOTES ‘ [21-9-2013 ] where they declared – LABOR : 33-4 % of the vote counted [ 92-3 %] and , get this , liberal :45-6% of the vote counted ……..NOT the total coalition vote BUT the liberal vote ……….NOW THAT IS MISINFORMATION . And the ABC state that they are not biased . More msm B/S.

  80. Carol Taylor

    Dan, the strangest thing about the last election and I do believe that this is completely unique in Australia’s history, is that for the first time people voted for what would not be done rather than what they would personally get out of it. The sole carrot that Abbott offered (no Howard’s-handouts for him) was that the ultra wealthy would be given $75,000 if they chose to procreate..the people that this will effect ie those women who will collect the max is very small indeed.

  81. kayelee1

    If you look at a different tab on that page you will see that the Labor vote was 33.4% and the Liberal vote was 32%. To get to 45.6% we have to include 8.9% for the LNP, 4.3% for the NAT and o.3% for the CLP. So much for Tony’s mandate.

  82. Möbius Ecko

    Especially since those Coalition partners were against Abbott’s PPL and other policies he is now saying he has a mandate for.

  83. Peter H

    Well All.

    I’ve pretty much had enough of this so called Inependat Australian Media Network that propogates far left, myopic, illinformed and stupid views such as Michaels, the author of this article.

    While some of it may be accurate, to some point. His views are clearly placed in that myopic, illinformed and stupid chasm that is filled by him and his kind.

    Now, I’ve contributed to this forum a few times over the past couple of weeks and have come to the opinion that you’re all a bunch of hateful pricks. I’ve presented factuall and considered arguments in a moderate fashion and in moderate langauge and all you left leaning whingers can do is throw barb after barb at me and people who feel the way I do.

    Reading the above, I truly wonder if you people with a supposed “correct” moral compass have any decency at all. Insulting a man you don’t really know based on the words of an ex public servant as well as the negative releases, rumours and misinforamtion form the LEFT media.

    You people are supposed to be smarter than this!

    I actually liken all of you to the New Born Christian saying we’re all going to hell because we haven’t taken Jesus into our hearts.

    You won’t listen to policies, you won’t listen to what is actually being done, you won’t look at results and you won’t face basic and proven facts.

    All you can do is call people names, infer they’re inferior to you and justify doing so because you have what you believe to be a better understanding of the way things should be. Really, how self absorbed can you get.

    I strongly suggest you all read Animal Farm by George Orwell and just in case you don’t get the real meaning of the story, let me give it to you.

    If you tell the population something IS, and never answer why it IS not, through fear, division, gain etc, then you never have to answer to or for anything.

    This is why I tired of listening to Labor interviews. Far more often than not, the first line to come out of a Labor Party mouth after a question was, “I think what the real question is…” Clearly never really answering a question.

    So I end this saying again, you’re all a bunch of rude, ignorant, myopic, illinformed, stupid pricks!

    And before you start your collective tirade on me, please read the disgusting crap you wrote above.

    Bring it on.

    Peter H

  84. Dan Rowden


    I’ve presented factuall and considered arguments in a moderate fashion and in moderate langauge

    Can you point me to an instance of this? I may have missed them, there being a lot going on at the moment. Oh, and just to be annoyingly pedeantic – I imply, you infer.

  85. rossleighbrisbane

    Yep, Dan,
    I can’t think of a single comment from Peter H, apart from the one above.
    And I read just about every comment.

    As for the above post which begins with

    “I’ve pretty much had enough of this so called Inependat Australian Media Network that propogates far left, myopic, illinformed and stupid views such as Michaels, the author of this article.”

    and ends with

    “So I end this saying again, you’re all a bunch of rude, ignorant, myopic, illinformed, stupid pricks!

    And before you start your collective tirade on me, please read the disgusting crap you wrote above.

    Bring it on.

    Peter H”

    I somehow missed his “factual and accurate statements”, but if calling someone a “stupid prick” is one of them, so be it.

  86. rossleighbrisbane

    I’m actually starting to suspect that a number of trolls have some sort of guilt complex and only post to get the abuse they feel they need for purification. Or perhaps it’s a borderline personality disorder where they have a need to be called names.
    Then again there may be a restraining order, so they can’t say these things to the people they feel really need it.
    Who knows?

  87. Dan Rowden

    The sad thing, Ross, is that there are any number of people who post here who are more than willing to engage in meaningful and substantive debate. The trouble is that no genuine substance from “the other side” is ever forthcoming. I don’t mean to toot my own horn here, but I’ve been writing and engaging in philosophic debate for 20 years, so I know what substantive arguments looks like. I know it’s a little bit daunting to be a lone voice of dissent in a like-minded community, but anyone of a conservative bent willing and able to offer meaningful arguments will find they’ll be treated with all due respect and consideration.

  88. Peter H

    To All

    Dan, I rather not engage with you because unlike me, it’s clear you won’t sit back and listen to both sides of the argument.

    And being able to engage in such forums is my democratic wright, or is something you also disagree with?

    Really, I’ve had enough of you guys because anybody with any basic level of logic would see your inability to just listen to another point of view, because you’re always so correct. Really, how monumentally self centered and insular can you be.

    Like I said, read Animal Farm.


    Have a great day 🙂

  89. kayelee1

    Peter I have read your comments. I have seen NO substantive discussion of the achievements of the previous government nor any analysis of the current government’s policies. I have read a great deal of criticism but that’s about it. I would be more than happy to listen to your views on, say, carbon pricing vs Direct Action, or FttN vs FttP, or asylum seeker policy, or the Murray-Darling or the Great Barrier Reef. Or we can devote a great deal of time discussing whether or not Michael should have called Tony a clown.

  90. rossleighbrisbane

    For those of you haven’t read it,

    Peter H’s exchange with Dan seems interesting. Peter H complains about people’s ignorance and how he’s provided facts and arguments. Dan asks for a specific example of this.
    Peter replies with a refusal to engage, because Dan won’t listen to both sides of the argument.

    One of the funniest things about the last two weeks is that I thought at least the Liberal victory would put an end to all the trolls who don’t have any clear argument but just want to jump and down saying how angry they are that Labor are in power. It hasn’t. They’re still posting. And they’re still angry. But now they can’t quite express what they’re angry about. Neither can they actually stick to the point long enough to have a discussion on any aspect of the chosen topic.

  91. rossleighbrisbane

    And yes, Peter H, it is your “democratic wright” .

  92. Peter H

    To Dan, the full paragraph reads, “Now, I’ve contributed to this forum a few times over the past couple of weeks and have come to the opinion that you’re all a bunch of hateful pricks. I’ve presented factuall and considered arguments in a moderate fashion and in moderate langauge and all you left leaning whingers can do is throw barb after barb at me and people who feel the way I do.”

    This means, “in the past couple of weeks” Wonderful bit of selective editing. Everytime we exchange Dan you prove yourself to be innacurate and incorrect as you have done here. My writing here is an opinion, not a statement of facts. I really did thnk this was clear.

    To Ross, I didn’t even open the link as its title just proves my point. Really, I’m a Troll? As I have said above, MYOPIC! And while you say I have the democratic wright, it becomes very hollow and patronising when you call me a troll when I excercise the wright.

    Kayelee, you are completely correct. We should be talking about policy and not have to deal with this kind of BS.

    But as I have said before, a lot of the left do resort to this kind of rubbish, and frankly, it does nothing but detract from their cause.

    I want a strong, intellegent and active LEFT. What we have now, for the most part is a bunch of idiots sprouting personal insults based on little if any fact at people they don’t really know.

    In other circles, it could be called racism. Hmm, something to think about?

    Thank you all for trying to hold back 🙂


  93. Kaye Lee

    Peter you just did it again. A whole heap of criticism but STILL no discussion of anything I mentioned.

  94. rossleighbrisbane

    Peter H, can you actually mention a policy that you’ve commented and I show us your comment?

    All you’ve done on this blog is complain that you’ve been subject to personal abuse from – and I”m quoting you here – “a bunch of rude, ignorant, myopic, illinformed, stupid pricks!”.

    Can you name a blog on this site where you’ve actually made a comment on policy? If you can’t then I would suggest that you are behaving as a troll.

    And as for you picking on the fact that I wear glasses by calling me myopic, Well, that’s just nasty.

  95. Dan Rowden

    Peter H,

    I have no idea what you’re taking about. “Selective editing”? What the hell does that mean, Sir? I asked you a simple question. If you can’t point me to an instance of what you claimed were your thoughtful and moderate arguments, then I have to assume you’re lying. I don’t read every comment here. I don’t recall engaging you on anything. Please remind me.

    Everytime we exchange Dan you prove yourself to be innacurate and incorrect as you have done here.

    Please point me to an instance of an exchange between us. Please name the article in which such a thing occurred. I have a dodgy memory, so I may have forgotten.

  96. rossleighbrisbane

    Dan, I suspect Peter won’t do that. He’ll complain about your refusal to engage and then not engage, and if you attempt to call him out on this, he’ll say that you’re just resorting to abuse and not sticking to the facts.
    It seems to be the modus operandi of a number of people commenting lately. And, many people have an avatar where, if you click on them, it’ll take you to other blogs that they’ve written. Try clicking on some of the more “interesting” ones and it just takes you nowhere or to a shopping site.

  97. Peter H

    Kaye, the discussion here is not about policy, parties or their preferrences or outcomes. The discussion here is the behaviour of those on the LEFT that will continue to base their arguments, no matter how well founded, with personal and vile insults. And through those insults, some people sound completely unwavering and single minded in their view.

    The fact that that behaviour detracts from their cause and the debate that would be better served without it.

    Also, what did come out of it was a blatant editting by Dan to prove some point. I call this a bonus.

    But Kaye, just for you…

    Climate Change, there is a lot of evidence to suggest that climate is not as bad as it is made out to be. Also, there is a lot of evidence to suggest that Climate Change can be caused by Climatalogical, Geological and/or Astronomical cycles. The fact is it’s not as sexy or extreme to discuss. In my view we should have 500 year policies surrounding this issue.

    The other problem with Climate Change under the LEFT was that when they held a forum on this issue, you could only attend the forum if you agreed with their positiom. Clearly this was not a democratic exercise.

    FTTP vs FTTN, I personally like the idea of FTTN as I don’t need mega high speeds and it “sounds” more economical. On the other hand I have friends in IT who thiink of it as nothing more than CRAP. All in all, I’m not as well educuted as I’d like to be on this issue.

    Asylum Seekers, I am so gonna get smashed on this one. Fact, a large percentage of people who come on boats are genuine refugees, a smaller percentage are indeed economic refugees and a very very few may be security risks. Such is the nature of the law of averages. I have always believed the processing and the determining of who is who should be quicker and without the many appeals that cause the most amount of angst around this issue.

    Murray Darling, I had a conversation with a state water authority employee some years ago and was advised the only thing we can do regarding water is fix the infrastructure it runs through, all of it. This is again not very sexy but would repair a great deal around this issue.

    Barrier Reef, another Climate Change problem. There are differing views here and I don’t know which to believe and am not that educated on the issue. I will say this, when I hear another climate prediction about how dire it will be in the next 10 years, I kind of roll my eyes, Most of these predictions have become innacurate and have not become true.

    Best way I can put this, I was talking to a friend about climate change and he said, “I’ve read all the evidence and it’s all on us, we gotta change the way we do things” I asked him about the Climatalogical, Geological and/or Astronomical cycles I referred to earlier , and he said, “That’s all bullshit” Such is my problem with the argument.



  98. Möbius Ecko

    A lot of evidence Peter H but you don’t table any sources, just state there is.

    For information there’s far more evidence that concords with man made CO2 being the cause of a global warming trend.

    So because you personally like FTTN and are willing to pay more to have an inferior product you want everyone else to have that inferior product and the country to go backwards internationally in high speed internet. Here is the typical RIGHT. I’m alright Jack and screw you.

    So one conversation with one person informs your opinion on entire complex issues. Says it all really.

  99. kayelee1

    The IPCC is about to release it’s 5th report. This is a preview.

    “In the past, these climate change deniers have insisted that variations in the sun’s energy or fluctuations in cosmic rays could be behind the global warming that has been observed in recent decades. Both suggestions are dismissed out of hand by the new report.

    In addition, scientists have tackled the apparent recent slowing of global warming observed by meteorologists around the globe. According to the new IPCC report, temperatures rose by about 0.15C a decade for the latter half of the last century. Since 1998, however, that rise has been reduced to only 0.05C. The observation has been seized upon by global warming deniers who say it is evidence that climate change is slowing down and may halt.

    But experts reject this claim. In fact, satellite measurements of the solar radiation entering the atmosphere, compared with the radiation being reflected back into space, show there has been no change in the rate of Earth’s warming. Most researchers believe that changes in sea currents may be taking heat deep into oceans.

    In addition, the new report has tackled the issue of sea level rises – which was ducked in the IPCC’s previous report in 2007 – and concludes that they could reach almost a metre by 2100. In the following century, those rises could reach three metres, it adds, inundating cities built on coastal regions round the world.

    The report also highlights the striking rate at which sea ice has disappeared from the Arctic. This is shrinking at a rate of between 3.5% and 4.1% every decade. “Satellite measurements began 35 years ago and show dramatic reductions have continued since then,” said Professor Jonathan Bamber of Bristol University. Nor is this a recent phenomenon, he added.

    “One recent study found a way to assess sea ice cover in the Arctic over the past 1,600 years. At no point in that time were levels found to be as low as they are today. The current drop is probably the handiwork of human beings.”

  100. kayelee1

    • FTTN is a short-term “stop gap” using old technology

    • Most countries that have installed FTTN are now replacing it with FTTP (ie: To the same system as our NBN plan)

    • The investment in FTTN would be largely wasted when the inevitable upgrade to FTTP is required

    • FTTN would be almost as expensive to implement in Australia as FTTP

    • FTTN’s Speed-to-Price ratio is poor

    • FTTN delivers vastly different performance levels depending on location

    • FTTN delivers very low upload speeds

  101. kayelee1

    Sorry that wasn’t the video I meant to attach. Peter if you want to know about FttP vs FttN this article has an excellent video which is easy to understand and very informative

    CommsDay Sydney 2013 Summit: The Problem With FTTN

  102. kayelee1

    Regarding the Great Barrier Reef, it isn’t JUST a climate change thing though the warming oceans are a concern. Tony wants to INCREASE coal mining in Australia.

    “The new emerging threat to the reef’s coastline is mega-port development, dredging, dumping and increased shipping. The public knows it. Unesco knows it. Scientists know it. And fishermen know it. But the Coalition has ignored this,”

  103. Peter H

    Gotta go to Mobius here. Please see his comments as it demonstrates my opinion of the left. He disagrees and insults me in the process. Well done, thank you.

    As for my “one conversation” re climate change. It is an analogy on how I feel Climate Change supporters feel about the issue of debate. Clearly this is not the only discussion I’ve had about the issue, but it does seem to be a common thread.

    As for my argument on FTTN vs FTTN, i ended by saying I am not as educated as I’d like to be on this issue. Clearly not a difinative argument by me one way or the other, just a clarification that I need to know more before I make a stand on such an issue. This kind of proves my point really.

    Kaylee, thanks for your stats, I am sorry I can’t point to my own here. There are two reasons why.

    Everytime I go look for some I get despondant, not because there aren’t any but because I can’t find any real statistics that aren’t skewed by people financially connected to climate change.

    As for the ICCP, it was found more than once that they changed modelling on some of the Computer Generated models to justify their results, therefore I discount them.

    The head of CSIRO was fired a few years ago for presenting false data to a commission. FYI, the CSIRO are currently doing more protien and cancer work nowadays, personal first hand experience here.

    I am NOT arguing we are NOT the cause of climate change. What I am saying is that the argument has been very one sided for a very long time and anyone, including me, who asks, “prove it” or “what about…” is immediately derided and called a sceptic in most negative terms.

    Gotta go to Mobius again at the end of this. He wrote, “Here is the typical RIGHT. I’m alright Jack and screw you.”

    Mobius, if you took the time to understand what I wrote you would understand that is not what I said.

    People, here i give you a representative of the MYOPIC left. Well done Mobius, you’re a dick!



  104. Dan Rowden

    Peter H,

    Also, what did come out of it was a blatant editting by Dan to prove some point. I call this a bonus.

    You had better demonstrate this if you want to continue posting here. I will not tolerate having my integrity questioned. Maybe someone else can help because I have zero idea what you are referring to.

  105. Peter H

    NIce one Dan, maybe you should take some time and read what you and I wrote.

    Pretty clear to me.


    Integrity ????


  106. kayelee1

    Peter H
    September 22, 2013 • 2:11 am

    Now, I’ve contributed to this forum a few times over the past couple of weeks and have come to the opinion that you’re all a bunch of hateful pricks. I’ve presented factuall and considered arguments in a moderate fashion and in moderate langauge and all you left leaning whingers can do is throw barb after barb at me and people who feel the way I do.

    Dan Rowden
    September 22, 2013 • 9:07 am

    “I’ve presented factuall and considered arguments in a moderate fashion and in moderate language”

    Can you point me to an instance of this? I may have missed them, there being a lot going on at the moment. Oh, and just to be annoyingly pedeantic – I imply, you infer.

  107. rossleighbrisbane

    Dan, Peter H has ignored my request to name another blog on which he’s posted in the past two weeks preferring to resort to name calling while accusing others just being abusive. He is clearly an unpaid version Andrew Bolt, who is at least good enough at what he does to get paid for it.
    He called my myopic, picking on my the fact that I wear glasses. I suppose it’s funny to him to pick on people’s disabilities.

  108. Möbius Ecko

    How have I insulted you?

    And again you make a lot of statements with not one source.

    Sorry but the way you wrote it is the way it comes across, I’m alright with FTTN so why have FTTH. If you meant we have both as a choice then are you advocating a two tier system of have and have nots? Why not everyone have the best and most efficient long term technology, that not only is best individually but is by far the best for the country’s future in so many ways.

    Now you say you are not saying mankind is not the cause of climate change, thus confirming you believe in climate change, but your argument is that the argument on it is one sided, which is false. Then you shift the tact to the “prove it” line, which is different to what you previously averred and is also false. This is yet another attempt at shifting blame here to push for a supposed balance, which really means to conform to a particular view of your choosing or you are happy with.

    And as far as I can see you are the one abusing and in projecting calling those out here for abuse.

  109. mludowyk

    To Peter and other right wing bullies. Tony Abbott is a snake oil salesman who won the election with a slick marketing campaign partly funded by the Murdoch media. He has conned 50% of the people with his three word slogans: he can’t ‘stop the boats’ and neither should he; he won’t be able to ‘axe the tax’ and neither should he; he can’t ‘fix the economy’ because it is doing OK, he also can’t ‘fix the recession in the USA and Europe, which is where the problems lie; and he wants to ‘stop the waste’ by scrapping the NBN and then waste millions on a PPL scheme for rich people who can afford to pay their own way.
    Anyone who fell for this rubbish, or who voted for the coalition out of greedy self-interest, deserves to be treated with disrespect. Abbott trashed the parliament and tried to trash the economy to get into power. He’ll get no respect from me.

  110. kayelee1

    The thing I find unfathomable about his resistance to the NBN is that the money outlaid is a loan which will be repaid and projections I have read have indicated a return of up to 7% on investment. Even if this return turns out to be less, why on earth would you waste billions of taxpayers money on an inferior product which hooks up 20% of people with the other 80% having to pay up to a projected $5000 to access the service THEY paid for but only a few get. How much money will be wasted on the reviews and replanning and the termination and renegotiating of contracts? Has he NO idea of the future potential? Either it’s sheer stupidity because he’s “not a tech head”, or it’s sheer bloody-mindedness because THEY thought of it.

  111. mludowyk

    Peter H- don’t waste time talking to your friends about climate change, unless they are climate scientists. Science is not a ‘belief’ – it is conclusions based on evidence.And have you been to the Arctic lately? Are you aware the permafrost is melting? Do you know what permafrost is? And the area of sea ice in the arctic is shrinking, did you know that? And do you know how important this is? You sure won’t learn about it in the Murdoch press.

  112. Peter H

    Kayelee, thanks for clearing that up for Dan.

    mludowyk, if I’m Right wing, I’m a bully. If I’m Left wing, I’m a crusader. Also, what exactly can I discuss with my friends?

    Mobius, please read my response to the FTTN vs FTTP/H again. Pretty clear. As for Climate Change, I don’t know what to believe because it is far to mired in self interest on both sides of the argument.

    Ross, I say MYOPIC in the instance where people WON’T look at another point of view, i:e: narrow minded etc. As for Andrew Bolt, I enjoy his views for the most part but he is a little too far right for my liking but is a good example of people bashing someone because he leans to the right.



  113. rossleighbrisbane

    Oh, and now you change the definition of myopic! Not content with using sexist language and swearing, you try to pretend that you don’t know the correct meaning of words.

  114. kayelee1

    You enjoy Andrew Bolt???? Leans to the right?????

    Andrew Bolt is Australia’s most dangerous racist. He is employed by a major Australian regional newspaper and a TV station that broadcasts nationwide in order for him to directly peddle his racist and Islamophobic propaganda. His blog at Rupert Murdoch’s Herald-Sun newspaper enjoys the support of a small but dedicated group of like-minded extreme right-wing bigots, rednecks and racists who regularly comment at his blog, and his TV spot is financially supported by various asssorted climate change deniers who have a vested interest in being anti-renewable resources and pro-pollutionist.

    Bolt is dangerous because he has a wide audience that his employers see as being gullible to their brand of media propaganda.

    Up until last year, Bolt was listed as an adviser to one of Australia’s most active climate denialist organisations the Galileo Movement, and only left when they said some nasty things about Jewish Bankers.

    .” In Australia’s Sunday Mail on February 29, journalist Andrew Bolt, in what he claims is an innocent attempt at finding the truth, denounces the existence of the ‘Stolen Generation,’ a group of 50,000-100,000 children taken from their Aboriginal parents for racist purposes by racist governments in the early years of the twentieth century, supposedly in the peoples ‘best interests.’

    Claiming that not one person who was stolen can be identified anywhere on the continent, Bolt’s naïve and misguided attempt at objective reporting is causing an uproar, particularly because Australian papers are prepared to print his inflammatory remarks.”

  115. olddavey

    Started watching Das Bolter on tv this morning. Had to change channels after 5 minutes. How anyone with even half a braincell can listen any of his crap is beyond me.

  116. Peter H

    Um Ross, When have I been sexist?

    If I have, and I don’t think I have, I am sincerely sorry. No sarcasm intened.

    Please correct if I’m incorrect here. Really do! I am happy retract or correct as required.

    I listen to Andrew Bolt, and I do sift through a lot of his BS, because it is the only overt Right Wing comentator I can find and the ABC is just rife with Left Wing bias.

    Also, Andrew is not a racist. He does deal with subject matter where his opinions greatly differ with many others.

    Please be careful with the “racist” word. It’s thrown around way too often nowadays. Just saying 🙂


  117. kayelee1

    Andrew Bolt’s words are inflammatory and have been proven time and time again to be factually incorrect. He makes many comments based on race. The link provided above from the punch is one of MANY instances of him stirring up hatred. He may be a racist…he may just think it is fun to stir the racist xenophobes up…he may be being paid to do so. Regardless of which of those three options is correct, his “opinions” have done a great deal to damage this society both with his inflammatory remarks regarding Aborigines and Muslims and with his persistent climate change denial with no credibile basis for the rubbish he spews forth. I reiterate, having people like him influencing public opinion is VERY dangerous.

  118. Peter H


    You’re very correct here, except for “dangerous”, in my view. As I like to think people can tell the difference between retoric and fact. I also don’t know if his opinions are swayed by his pay check, I hope not.

    His facts deffinately can be questioned and for this he has been limited to a “one page” as opposed to a “two page” spread.

    He does go too far on The Stolen Generation and Chernobel in particular. He does though quote quite a few studies supporting his anti warming debate.

    Trust me, if he starts sounding like Rush Limbaugh, Mark Hannety or Bill O’Reilly of the USA, I’m gonna switch off.

    Dan, apology???


  119. doctorrob54

    A Bolt is a racist,not only does he deny history of Stolen Generation,but accuses aboriginal persons of lying
    when they call themselves aboriginal.
    Regardless of what subgect is being discussed,if something is a fact well then so be it,you can’t turn around and say,”well in my opinion”,…………..A fact is a truth and that is all there is to it.
    How can anyone factualy accuse the ABC of left wing bias.The sickening pathetic grovelling of most ABC presenters when interviewing liberals,compared to the continuous disrespect to Labour reps.including the past both PM’s is the reason I ceassed watching.

  120. Dan Rowden

    Peter H,

    Dan, apology???

    Um, are you offering or asking? If you’re asking for one I have to say in return: what the hell for? You made a claim about your activities here. I quoted a part of that claim pertinent and relevant to the question I subsequently asked. You have ignored each of my questions and have instead carried on as though I’ve wronged you somehow. So, here’s a supplementary question: are you insane?

  121. Peter H


    Congratulations, you are the one that has finally made me not want to bother engaging in this forum or any like it any more.

    You have just said you “quoted part of that claim” and decided which part was pertinent and which was not.

    A completely different and unrelated contributor to this forum actually took the time to display your error and you still won’t admit you’re wrong. As I have written on a previous topic and about the Left, you’re just not accountable for your actions and mistakes, even if they’re only small ones.

    I have said time and time again on this topic of how I am willing to be educated where I am either wrong or not that well informed.

    You on the other sound out some kind of superiority when you need to be corrected by someone you don’t agree with.

    Dan, what you have displayed here is the reason I despair when dealing with the Left. Your mind won’t be changed, you’re indignant in your actions and words to people you don’t agree with and you stand tall with an arogance that you could never be question or be incorrect in what you say and do.

    How monumentally self centered, self absorbed and self fulfilling you are.

    I’m outta here, I hope that puts a smile on your face.

    To all else, thank you for your exchanges, I have enjoyed most of them, especially Kayelee.

    Please just have a look around, think about what we all do and consider others when you do it.

    Peter H

  122. Möbius Ecko

    Dan, what you have displayed here is the reason I despair when dealing with the Left

    There you go again Peter H, pigeon holing as though the Right are holier.

  123. Dan Rowden

    Peter H,

    And thus my supplementary question is answered. Bye Bye.

  124. Möbius Ecko

    Peter H. I have read your FTTH vs FTTN statement several times and you like FTTN because it “sounds” more economical, and you do state you’re not educated in this. I guess that’s some type of excuse.

    My point is that you put up a preference for FTTN on ignorance and it would not have taken much to educate yourself on the costs. The NBN costs are openly out there and available and NBN plans are available from all ISPs that have access to it.

    Turnbull’s costings for their plan on the other hand are what you can call at best very sketchy, but if you do a search of some of the IT sites you will see the projected costs based on what has been detailed and compared to similar FTTN set ups overseas, mainly in the US mean it will be more expensive for an inferior service.

    Thus my contention that you advocate we have an inferior service base or at best a two tiered one because you chose to remain ignorant on the matter.

  125. Fed up

    What amazes me about visitors like Peter H, is their belief that anyone really cares about what they write or think.

    The type come and quickly go all the times. None ever contributive anything of worth to the site.

  126. Fed up

    The trouble is, no matter how Turnbull dresses it up, NBN lite/fraud is not economical It will cost more in the long one.

    By 2920, no matter what hap peens now, be moving to the fibre to the home.

    Yes, and all that money, for the fridges on each corner, and the UNKNOWN cost of bringing copper up to standard, will be complete waste.

    None of that technology will have further use.

    To make matters worse, Telstra will be back in control.

  127. Fed up

    Asian Focus now on ABC 24. Problems for Abbott.

  128. Fed up

    Does one realise that Abbott is putting in place, such as his Sovereign been responsible up to now. Not even asking, if they see any down side in the policies

    A dangerous path to go down, indeed.

    On top of that, they are getting rid of heads of Departments, that have dare disagree with them.

  129. Fed up

    Chris Bowen gave PC ABC 24. Made very strong statements re Morris on media show. Believe it or not, media had no questions.

  130. Fed up

    By the way, Morrison made many allegations against Labor. Bowen was not even asked to explain. Is the new plan, not to ask the Opposition any questions.

  131. doctorrob54

    Peter H,this is my opinion only and not meaning to disrespect this forum I say good,it is obvious it would not matter how much FACT is pumpped into your empty head you will then turn to Bolt eg.
    for his OPINION.It is irrelevant what opinion Bolts,Devine,Akerman,Jones,Mccrann and their ilk have,operative word being opinion,which means nothing when Fact enters the equation,you for some reason will never accept Fact.
    I recall some 50 years ago when DDT was first produced.The American scientist who assisted in its formulation promoting it on TV stating it is only poisonous to flies and mosquitos and you could drink it with not to much danger but advised not to.We still have scientists working with tabacco co’s,denying it causes
    death,and we will always have people who’s lively hood depend on oil,coal and gas mining,planting seeds
    of doubt in your head and many like you.All you are,and people like you,are a hinderance to the progresion of safer energy inovations.
    Now I realize why I started on this and why you give me the shs,cos no matter what people point out to you it makes no difference,if Kayelee can not educate you with all the FACTS you have been given well like I said to start of with,do us all a favour.

  132. Peter Hamrol

    Hard to imagine any hard core LIBs analysing the real facts no matter how many times an intelligent person explains it to them … They are so full of themselves and are so narrow minded that they can’t even see the ‘trees from the forest’ … That’s why we Australians are going to return to the Dark Ages of HOWARDISM …

  133. mludowyk

    If they had any knowledge about the real world and any sense of logical thought at all they wouldn’t vote Liberal in the first place. Interesting to note that the electorate of Melbourne is the most highly educated electorate in the country, and they elected Adam Bandt. I’d have a guess that the electorate of Fairfax is at the other end of the education scale!

  134. Fed up

    Michael Kroger had great trouble supporting Morrison on the Drum.. Kept saying he assumes that Morrison knows what he is doing. The crowing comment, was that Morrison and Abbott should be given a couple of years, to see if it works. couple of years, which was repeated.

    It is a shame that Kroger could not keep to the truth with some of his comments. It still a according to Kroger, $90 million for NBNCo. with Turnbull’s being $30.million. Neither figure are anywhere near the truth. Labor’s is greatly exaggerated, while the governments, does not includes all the cost.

    When Mr,. Turnbull can first tell us the state of the copper wire, then the cost to bring it up to standard, his figures mean nothing.

    Do we really believe that Telstra is going to hand it all over to Turnbull for nothing.

    Do we really believe that the new technology, makes copper equal to fibre

    I think not.

  135. Fed up

    Why does Turnbull have to take the resignations to cabinet, when Morrison seems to have a free hand to do as he likes.

    Could it be, that there is a tight rein being kept on Turnbull.

  136. mludowyk

    Michael Kroger is an arrogant, self-righteous bully.

  137. kayelee1

    I heard both Senator Boyce and Michael Kroger interviewed this afternoon. They were both asked about the single parents pension and raising the level of Newstart. They both said oh yes that is something that we would love to look at but the terrible state of the budget means we just cant afford it. Kroger said there are many disadvantaged people in our community that we would like to help but we cant just yet. I was yelling at the screen BECAUSE YOU NEED THE MONEY TO PAY MILLIONAIRES TO HAVE BABIES .

  138. mludowyk

    Michael Kroger is a horrible human being. Possibly as ghastly as Tony Abbott.

  139. Miss Lou

    I personally did not Vote for the Liberal Party. I find that the tone of their values and principles do not align with my own.

    I do not know Tony Abbott Personally, but I have had the opportunity to witness his increasingly regressive views about women, and womens issues, not to mention what I view as a lack of integrity when observing the way he deals under pressure.


    I do not, however feel it is justified to immaturely ridicule his appearance. There is no defense or justification for the behaviour in my view. Sinking to the level of ridiculousness we have witnessed among the very people supposed to manage the affairs of our country does not help things.

    Yes, he’s got big ears, but lets have conversations about the mans policy, leadership and personal conduct within his position. (@ this point, not so great in my opinion)

    His big ears and clown face really aren’t that relevant when it comes to running the country are they?

  140. Miss Lou

    The removal of $43 million dollars in Legal Aid funding for our indigenous population is also of great concern to me, not only for the humanitarian reasons, BUT it is not even cost effective.

    Seems like the consideration is to cut corners now – to get us back into surplus, only to leave it to the incoming governments to have to fix the great messes down the track. (look out NBN, we’ll need a few band aids down the track)

    Our economy is actually in fairly good shape (ridiculous amount of scare mongering prior to the election) AND running government is not ONLY about managing the economy.

    What good is a surplus if half the country is living in poverty and those most vulnerable cannot access essential services.

    Paid Parental scheme — what a joke! *blank stares*

  141. Fed up

    The body that Abbott cut, is going to continue on a voluntary basis. That is the Flannery group.

    We now have on ABC, warming has stalled. I not sure, that is what the report is going to say.

  142. Fed up

    Miss Lou, you must admit, there is much more here, than talking about Abbott’s big ears. I think, if you looked back, that should not have been said.

    We have Hunt on. He must be trusted to be out.

  143. Fed up

    Climate Change Commission to continue.

    According to Hunt, it proves that it did not have to be tax funded.

  144. Fed up

    Miss Lou, that id the trouble, none of Abbott’s cuts make sense. Many actually create waste.

  145. kizhmet

    Everyone’s fear proved well founded, sadly. How much worse can it get?

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