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Day to Day Politics: Taking credit when none’s due.

Sunday 2 April 2017

1 For all his bluff and bluster, a perpetual smile, together with the occasional stunt, it seems to me that Nick Xenophon really doesn’t achieve much. Such is the case with the Government’s Tax Cuts for business. And I might add that when he does it generally favours a rightish ideology.

Ostensibly all he has negotiated is a one off ‘insult’ payment to pensions of a piddling $75 for a single person and $125 for a couple for those on the aged pension, the disability support pension or the parenting payment.

It’s supposed to cover rising energy prices.

The smiling faces of Malcolm Turnbull, Treasurer Scott Morrison and Finance Minister Mathias Cormann gave a press conference on Friday to hail the changes as a ”great day for Australian workers and Australian businesses”.

”This is a great result for 6.5 million Australians working for businesses that will get the benefit of this tax cut,” Turnbull said.

My God, you would think they were going to walk into work on Monday to be told their would be an extra 100 bucks in their pay packets next week.

Xenophon additionally negotiated some energy measures including fast-tracking a solar-thermal plant in South Australia. It is already underway and a new National Energy Policy which the chief scientist had already been commissioned to come up with by mid-year. There was also a non-binding promise for a study into the viability of a gas pipeline connecting the state with the Northern Territory.

The Government also promised to enforce a ”Public interest” order on the big three liquefied natural gas exporters in Queensland to force them to pump more gas to the domestic market. Again this was something Turnbull had done when he met gas executives early last month.

It seems to me that Xenophon does this frequently walking away with the credit for doing little other that giving the government it way. He is a PR freak. At the end of the day all he got for tax cuts to the rich and privileged was a one off $153 payment for pensioners.

There is no evidence that these cuts are about ”Jobs and Growth,” no modelling. No statement from the ATO that they will create ”Jobs and Growth.”

As Sally McManus told the Press Club last Wednesday:

”Wage theft is a new business model for far too many employers. Inequality in our country is now at a 70-year high. And 679 of our biggest corporations pay not one cent in tax.”

So the new tax rate will reduce from 30 to 25 per cent over 10 years for companies earning up to $50 million.

With a large number of companies paying no tax at all together with numerous concessions and tax imputation most companies already only pay about 24%.

It is one of the reasons why a report from the Australian Tax Office found that Business Council of Australia members actually paid an effective tax rate of 24 per cent as a group in 2014-2015.

With the lack of evidence regarding any connection to ‘’Jobs and Growth” it is easy to see that this is just old trickledown economics of the sort that modern economists say is past its used by date.

Jacqui Lambie argued that companies – including multinationals – did not need any more help with tax cuts and said the big four banks would receive $7.4bn in revenue if the Coalition’s package went through.

At midday on Saturday while enjoying a cuppa the Prime Minister graced our television screen espousing how we are all going to enjoy the benefits of giving tax cuts to businesses with turnovers of $50 million.

Having already doubled Labor’s debt one wonders where the money is coming from to pay for this. Remember the uproar from the Coalition and the Murdoch press just a few years back.

I can only conclude that the word “lying” in political terms has been replaced with the more subtle reference of “overstatement”. Maybe bullshit would be a better word. One thing is for sure. He is no longer the calm reasoned man of thoughtful disposition we thought we were going to get when he got the job.

While I’m on the subject of energy it’s interesting that a $1 billion battery and solar farm will be built at Morgan in South Australia’s Riverland by year’s end in a project the proponents describe as “the world’s biggest.

An observation.

”Change sometimes disregards opinion and becomes a phenomenon of its own making. With Its own inevitability”

2 Germany is set to introduce the world’s first zero-emission passenger train to be powered by hydrogen. It only emits steam.

3 For the time being the fight against changes to 18c has been won. I will now be able to continue writing freely as I have been doing without feeling the need to think up new ways to criticise people.

Against changing 18C – ALP, Greens political party, Nick Xenophon Team, Jacqui Lambie

For changing 18C – Government, One Nation, Derryn Hinch, David Leyonhjelm.

4 From the Labor Party email Newslette:

You’ll remember in Week Two of the election campaign there were raids on Labor in relation to the National Broadband Network. The raids happened after Labor had exposed the Turnbull Government’s incompetent handling of the NBN. This week the Senate inquiry into these raids and the materials which were seized found it was an “improper interference” with the functions of the Parliament. I’ve asked the Speaker how this will now be handled to prevent these issues coming up again in the future. He’ll be reporting back to the Reps when we return for the Budget.

5 Following on from my recent piece ”what’s happening in the bear pit?” I have to report that it’s getting worse. Take a look at this.

6 The Australian made a complete fool of itself when it tried to discredit new ACTU leader Sally Mc Manus.

The story was promoted by the Australian’s associate editor, Caroline Overington, on Twitter before an address by McManus at the National Press Club.

Reporters will asking @sallymcmanus tough questions about her resume when she appears at Press Club today:

Gutter reporting from the Murdoch press.

The Guardian has the story.

On this day in 2016 I wrote:

A Just when we thought Donald Trump couldn’t go any lower, he does.

Trump was asked by MSNBC’s Chris Matthews to define his “pro-life” stance and assertions that abortion should be banned.

”Do you believe in punishment for abortion – yes or no – as a principle?” asked Matthews, during the taping of a town hall event.

”The answer is there has to be some form of punishment,” said Trump.

”For the woman?” Matthews said.

”Yeah, there has to be some form,” Trump replied.

‘Ten cents, 10 years, what?’ Matthews asked again, pressing.

”That I don’t know,” said Trump.

B Billionaire retailer Gerry Harvey, the man who views the world through the prism of his own cash registers, reckons we need a two tier wage system where cheap labour is plentiful.

”Australia doesn’t have cheap labour. Many overseas workers would be prepared to move here for a much better life and half the money Australians earn … I’ve got horse studs and it’s difficult to get staff” he said.

C Conversely, I was reading the daily Morgan Report and would you believe the Fair Work Ombudsman did a nationwide investigation into the fast-food sector and found that nearly half (47 per cent) of 565 spot-checked employers have not been paying their staff correctly, with workers being paid as low as $6 per hour compared to the statutory minimum of $17.25 per hour.

The Fair Work Ombudsman’s investigation found that in nearly one-third of cases, the flat hourly rate paid by the employer to its workers was not enough to cover hours attracting penalty rates and loadings, resulting in underpayments for which an employer could be ordered to compensate the underpaid worker, and fined for breach of the applicable Industrial Award.

Royal Commission, anyone?

My thought for the day.

“We are given the gift of foresight however, we choose to be reactive rather than proactive. Why is it so?”

PS: I think the only thing I have missed is Mark Latham’s manners, but I will give it a miss.

 


90 comments

  1. Shogan

    “PS: I think the only thing I have missed is Mark Latham’s manners, but I will give it a miss.”

    You may as well as he always did!!

  2. Don A Kelly

    Two paragraphs from your good comments John.
    “The smiling faces of Malcolm Turnbull, Treasurer Scott Morrison and Finance Minister Mathias Cormann gave a press conference on Friday to hail the changes as a ”great day for Australian workers and Australian businesses”.
    ”This is a great result for 6.5 million Australians working for businesses that will get the benefit of this tax cut,” Turnbull said”.
    Here is the proof: “I was reading the daily Morgan Report and would you believe the Fair Work Ombudsman did a nationwide investigation into the fast-food sector and found that nearly half (47 per cent) of 565 spot-checked employers have not been paying their staff correctly, with workers being paid as low as $6 per hour compared to the statutory minimum of $17.25 per hour.”
    Is this just another failed example of scoring political points?

  3. Jane

    Gerry Harvey is one vile character.

  4. Kaye Lee

    Treasury did do modelling of the company tax cut, albeit based on very dubious assumptions “for simplicity” like full employment, no government debt, and “government spending is assumed not to affect directly the welfare of households”..

    It’s modelling found that the cut in company tax would cause the level of real GNI to be only 0.6 per cent higher than otherwise “in the long term”. After 20 or 25 or 30 years, the level of real after-tax wages will be 0.4 per cent higher than otherwise, and the level of employment in 20 or 30 years’ time will be just 0.1 per cent higher than otherwise.

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/growth-and-jobs-the-numbers-that-debunk-a-company-tax-cut-20160527-gp572e.html

    Treasury modelling, indeed all modelling, finds that cutting company tax will have a significant impact on government revenue and the shortfall will have to be made up – either by imposing other taxes or by cutting government spending.

    The Treasury analysis looks at three scenarios: funding company tax cuts through an unspecified “lump sum” tax; through an increase in personal income tax; and through a cut in government spending on goods and services.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-03/long-the-strange-modelling-used-to-sell-company-tax-cuts/7473480

  5. helvityni

    Seeing those three smirking faces of Mal, Mathias and Morrison tells me how little they care about ordinary Aussies; why didn’t they include their little helper Nick the Greek in that insulting picture…

  6. lawrencesroberts

    Nick Xenophon is The Pied Piper of crypto fascists.

  7. Harquebus

    “There are no such environmental benefits attributable to hydrogen either now or in any foreseeable future economic reality.”
    “It is important for any person concerned with environmental protection or simply wishing to avoid being mislead as a consumer, an investor, an editor or a public servant, to be mindful of well funded and extremely widespread misuse of publicly available data regarding Hydrogen production and Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles.”
    https://cleantechnica.com/2014/06/04/hydrogen-fuel-cell-vehicles-about-not-clean/

    Search criteria: carbon emissions hydrogen production

    Oh, and Xenophon is just another ignorant prick who we would be better off without.

    Cheers.

  8. wam

    The big X passed the cuts friday night?????

    the sad fact is those with a vested interest in the governmental activities have easy access to both the government, and the MSM, to promote themselves.
    The skill of the rabbott was to ensure everybody knew the ABC was left wing and highlighted any fair assessment of politics as examples of anti-right. His power made the morning shows anti-gillard/labor and now any chance of fair reporting runs the risk of the libs wrath. Sunrise has a much less chance of the PM et al than Today and make do with the 2Hs to show they are not supporting anything left.

    I was supportive of X and wilkie on pokies but it was soon clear X was a opportunist who has himself first last and always. He has none of the honesty shown by the member for denison

  9. Gra Gra

    I see that old Wino Hinch winging that he wanted to get home early on Tv Footage on the Insiders. Hinch wouldn’t know what a hard day’s work looked like?

  10. billshaw2013

    I haven’t entered a Harvey Norman store since Harvey Norman exposed himself as a greed machine. The reason he struggles to staff his stables would be low wages. To solve this he wants to bring in third world labourers instead of using his own millions. Perhaps his millions are locked in the Caymans along side of his mates?

  11. Freethinker

    Looking at the photo of those 3 amigos I remember the photo of Mathias with Joe smoking the big cigars.
    That photo showing their behavior was before the election and they were voted again.
    I think that we have to give them credit that they know how to manipulate the electorate and use the ignorance on it to their advantage.
    About Nick, he is another master of using his theatrical ability to camouflage what are his ambitions and ideology.
    So far he is doing a great job.
    That it is there reality fellow bloggers, like it or not.

  12. helvityni

    As David Donovan writes on IA, this is just Mal making Oz great again.

    Little people have to understand this, and they have to cheerfully accept that they have to help Mal by getting even poorer themselves…

    What’s wrong about downsizing and moving into a tent if you can’t pay your rent…this is after all sunny Australia, not icy Siberia.

  13. Freethinker

    helvityni, IMHO suffering it is what it is need for people to weak up.
    The problem against that it is the the few on the top have managed to use human greed in their advantage, first to make the people slave of their credits for want more and second to introduce policies and other methods to destroy any possible unity in the middle and lower classes.
    They know what they are doing, is working well and if they loose power the damage it is already done.
    They got the working class by the b#$^&

  14. Rob

    Quote: “Inequity is at a 70 year high!” Think about that folks. The last time it was this high was during the ‘Great Depression’. Inequity goes with recession. When will they learn that trickle-down does NOT. When people run short on money, businesses (particularly small businesses run short on customers, so markets, businesses, jobs and investments fail in a death spiral. Businesses will not create jobs because they have more money through tax cuts. They hire because business demands it. But if those tax cuts come from the pockets of business customers, their bottom line will pay for it. Inequity is the core problem of our age.

  15. Jaquix

    Nick Xenophon has done his usual trick of loudly condemning government legislation, and then at the last minute caving in and voting with the Libs. This time, though, he has outdone himself. He will be tarred with this about-face forever. The sight of Turnbull, Morrison and Corman besides themself with glee afterwards, proves they got his votes very cheaply indeed. As for Turnbull, does he really believe himself? ”This is a great result for 6.5 million Australians working for businesses that will get the benefit of this tax cut,” Turnbull said. I would think Sally McManus might already be starting a database of all the workers reporting in the “benefit” they are getting from their bosses as a result of this tax cut, or maybe not. The proof of the pudding will be in a years time when the figures for employment, company profits etc, can be assessed. You can see the rush for companies bigger than $50 million turnover rushing to the companies office on Monday to divide themselves up into smaller companies. INCLUDING THE BIG BANKS.

  16. Ella Miller

    Were any of you as stupid as I was to watch the Senate last Thursday and Friday in particular….I can tell you it was sickening..not to mention that the House of Reps was also recalled on Friday..why?
    On Friday; Labor made a very short speech pointing out and I forget exactly how many LNP. speakers were on the list.
    The rest of the day was taken up with LNP member after member chewing up time with crap and more crap. During this time most of the Senate was empty.Sen Corman and Brandis were nowhere to be seen. Those who were there from the Greens and the opposition kept on pointing out the numbers in the house…SO some of the LNP would return stand at the back of the House and in minutes disappear.This went on the whole day..
    How much did this disgraceful waste of time cost the taxpayer and for what? So the LNP members could be outside making their grubby deal.
    They did not have to make a deal with One Nation or Hinch because they were already on board. So it was all about the KING MAKER Nick Z and his team. What a disgraceful turncoat he is. He sold out for what?

    Then to add insult to injury our esteemed PM said that the one off $75 dollar payment will cost “$250 million dollars and it was affordable ”

    REALY? I thought we had a budget debt crises that had to be solved., at the expense of those who can least afford it.

    Then today Mr. Morrison said that the LNP would re introduce the rest of the corporate tax savings WHEN it had the chance of passing through the Senate. What he did not tell us was what grubby deals would be done in order to do this!!!!

    So today..if I sound sickened , disgusted, bewildered and in despair you know why.

  17. Ella Miller

    OH and I forgot to tell you, that ,the only Senator to speak truth to power was Senator Lambi and all through he contribution she was mercilessly ridiculed by the few LNP senators in the house at the time. I wish I knew how to get hold of a copy of her contribution it is worth reading again.

  18. Freethinker

    I do not watch any of the two houses, affect my health.

  19. Matters Not

    Trick is, only Australian shareholders in our companies receive franking credits; foreign shareholders don’t. In consequence, Australian shareholders (who include everyone with superannuation savings) have little to gain from the cut in company tax. It gives them no reason to change their behaviour.

    Imputation has turned our company tax into little more than a tax on foreign shareholders. Which means almost all the benefit from the company tax cut goes to foreigners

    .
    So almost all the benefit from the company tax cut goes to foreigners . And it does so because foreign investors do not file Australian Tax returns But I wonder how many average punters understand the concepts of Franking Credits and the Dividend Imputation System? Yet if they are in a Super Fund, it has implications for them. People who own shares directly (outside) of a Super Fund already know the importance of franking credits because of the positive effect it has on their Tax return.

    Before the dividend imputation system was introduced in 1987 by the Hawke/Keating government the tax office would tax both the company and the investor who received the dividend, in effect a form of double taxation.

    With the introduction of the dividend imputation system, investors who receive a dividend will only be taxed the difference between 30% and their own marginal tax rate as the company tax has already been paid at the 30% rate.

    This means that if an investor’s tax rate is 30% then they will not have to pay tax on the dividends and if the marginal rate is 46.5% then an investor will only pay the difference which is 16.5%

    There’s a more detailed explanation with examples and case studies here.

    http://www.investors.asn.au/education/shares/understanding-shares/franking-credits/

    When comparing taxation levels in Australia and elsewhere by reference ONLY to ‘rates’ is just a nonsense. In the US for example there is no Dividend Imputation. They still have ‘double taxation’ – among other differences including State imposts. But those differences are rarely, if ever, discussed. Too difficult? All the politicians need is a slogan or two. And the shorter the better.

  20. Harquebus

    Ella Miller
    You are not alone in your assessment. Sometimes, I wish I was a Tasmanian just so that I could vote for Senator Lambi and have told her so.

    Freethinker.
    I often try to but, always in up in Ella Miller’s condition.

    Matters Not
    Thank you for that information.

    Cheers.

  21. Kaye Lee

    I cannot forgive Jacqui Lambie for her part in getting rid of a carbon price when she clearly had absolutely no understanding of what it actually was as shown by her interview on the 7:30 report in September 2013.

    “I support tearing up the carbon tax to a certain degree but some of that carbon tax is quite good. So, you know what, tearing something up and restarting again takes longer. We probably need to start that carbon tax at maybe three or four per cent.”

    Three or four percent of what?

    Then in June 1014

    “Oh yeah, no, the carbon tax needs to go. It’s been an absolute mess since that was introduced. It is absolutely killing the nation.”

    Harquebus, I am astonished that you of all people would admire Ms Lambie considering her opposition to environmental protection.

    “What we will not abide by is a toxic economic dictatorship led by a minority.” July 20, 2013 criticising environmentalists who were opposing a proposed Tasmanian mine.

    “We have had enough of people like you trying to shut down our livelihoods and drive our children out of Tasmania.” Letter in the Burnie advocate criticising a Tarkine forest campaigner.

    “Who decided that animal rights had become more important than human rights?”

    There is no question that Jacqui is very passionate and emotional about some things but I question her ability to understand the implications of the things she is voting for.

  22. Freethinker

    As a Tasmanian , the only good thing about Lambie is that she does not like Abetz. Any opposition and bad reference about Abetz it is good IMO.
    Do I considering voting for her? No way

  23. Matters Not

    Senator Lambie is none too bright. As she is in the Senate, I would nevertheless probably end up voting for her via my preference allocation. Not at the top of my list by any means but ahead of some others. After all she has a ‘heart’. And that’s a starting point.

    But I would reel in horror if she had the balance of power.

  24. Harquebus

    Kaye Lee
    A price on carbon price only hurts the poor and does nothing toward doing what is required.
    I admire Jacquie Lambi because she is willing to stick to the same bastards who got us where we are. If more voted according to their convictions like her, our democracy would be stronger. I don’t have to agree with her.
    Cheers.

  25. Michael Taylor

    Senator Lambie is none too bright.

    Ain’t that the truth?

    I’m never comfortable having idiots in the Parliament. She’s one of many.

  26. Kaye Lee

    “A price on carbon price only hurts the poor and does nothing toward doing what is required.”

    You have to be kidding me. Everyone agrees that it is by far the cheapest way to curb emissions. It makes polluters change their practices. It makes them invest in cleaner energy and sustainable practice. It makes them pay for the damage they cause. Have you noticed electricity getting cheaper since the removal of the carbon price? NO!! That is a bullshit argument put forward by the fossil fuel industry.

    MN, I agree that Jacqui has a heart and if I had to choose between her and Abetz she is miles in front. That doesn’t make her up to the job though. Being her adviser would be a very tough gig.

  27. Harquebus

    Kaye Lee
    Not everyone agrees and it is not the polluter that pays, it is the consumer. Only if you believe the renewable energy crap does it makes sense.
    Cheers.

  28. Freethinker

    the renewable energy crap!??????
    Are you serious?

  29. Matters Not

    So Senator Lambie has ‘convictions’? One can only assume they are of the legal variety because of minor infringements, parking fines, speeding tickets and the like. As for those of the philosophical variety, they remain very well hidden. In deep cover.

  30. Freethinker

    Harquebus, can you please tell me if you believe that renewable energy is crap or if I just read it out of content.

    Just like to know it to see to whom I debating or changing points of view.

    Thank you

  31. Harquebus

    Kaye Lee
    Time will tell. It’s not like we haven’t been and not currently being bullshitted to. Eh? From my perspective, you are just another gullible.
    Cheers.

  32. Kaye Lee

    Answer me one thing and please spare me your patronising “cheers”. Do you honestly believe that fossil fuels are better than renewable energy?

  33. silkworm

    “A price on carbon price only hurts the poor…”

    Let me just repeat what Kaye Lee has just said: “You are full of shit Harquebus.” The carbon price was calculated to cost the average household just under $10 per week (or $500 per year, which is where Abbott got his $550 per year cost from, with a slight exaggeration), and this is exactly what Gillard gave in compensation to the poorest households. So, with the compensation, the carbon price cost those households exactly nothing.

  34. Harquebus

    Kaye Lee
    Yes. That said, the current rate of fossil fuel use is unsustainable and detrimental to the environment. Renewable energy devices are even worse.
    There is no magic solution and it is too late to escape the consequences. The human plague will be dealt with in the usual way.
    Prost.

  35. Ella Miller

    Kaye Lee,
    J.Lambi still has a lot to learn , I do not agree with many of the stands she takes on some issues but on Friday in the Senate she was brilliant…try and listen to it. We can all be condemned for taking silly stands.
    Kaye..Nick Z is supposed to be so bright ..well if he is what happened to the emission trading scheme..how hard did he fight for it?

    Michael Taylor,
    I might point out to you that Malcolm has brilliant mind and what good has he done for Australia? So many others fit that category.

    Average people with their heart in the right place CAN and DO learn and to me it is better than some smart arse politician who has lost
    his moral compass. If he /she ever had one… thinking of M. Cash.
    Bit elitist don’t you think?

  36. Kaye Lee

    Very good point silkworm.

    In fact, for low income workers it was far more than $550. By raising the tax free threshold from $6,000 to $18,200 it saved 12,200*0.15=$1830 in tax.

    And for those on fixed incomes…..

    “More than 3.5 million pensioners (including age, disability and people on Carer Payment) have begun receiving their ongoing Clean Energy Supplement as part of their fortnightly payments. Over a year, these pension increases are worth a total of more than $350 a year for singles and more than $530 a year for couples combined.

    More than 1.6 million families who receive Family Tax Benefit payments will start receiving ongoing increases in their fortnightly family payments from 1 July 2013. Other income support recipients such as students will also receive ongoing assistance, beginning with a second advance payment from 1 July 2013 and an ongoing Clean Energy Supplement from 1 January 2014.”

  37. Kaye Lee

    Ella,

    I understand what you are saying and agree to an extent but Jacqui wasn’t entirely selfless in her pursuit of a job in parliament.

    She was given work by former Labor senator Nick Sherry as part of her rehab in 2008.

    In November 2011, she joined the Liberal Party of Australia and later decided to run for preselection for the Division of Braddon.

    In 2012, the single mother sold her house to help fund her run as an independent, before turning to the newly formed Palmer United Party founded by billionaire Clive Palmer.

    Convictions or self-interest?

    Harquebus, to say that fossil fuels are better than renewables shows that you are not worth engaging with. No more time wasted on your rot.

  38. Ella Miller

    Kaye Lee,
    would you like to tell me the name of ONE politician who is “entirely selfless” either Labor or Liberal……if they are they don’t last long the machine , and the process knocks out out of them.

    We are all guilty of self – interest to lesser or greater extent.

  39. Kaye Lee

    Ella,

    Ted Mack.

  40. Jack Straw

    Never argue with a fool.

    Yes Ted Mack was great and Tony Windsor

    Ella your fighting Ideology these days

    and their greed comes from their disillusionment

  41. Keitha Granville

    As a Tasmanian I did have Jacqui on my ballot paper and put her ahead of every Liberal (and a few other notable morons)
    She has a few wacky thoughts but there is no doubting where her passions lie – she KNOWS what it is like to make do on next to nothing and will always fight for people on low incomes. She tries to learn I believe, even though she may not be the sharpest tool in the shed. I’d have her ahead of the smooth supposedly learned members any day.

  42. Harquebus

    Kaye Lee
    For decades I and others have been saying the same thing. Depopulate, conserve finite resources and abandon economic growth. It would have made a big difference if the global population was 1/8th what is now and living frugally. We would not now be facing the crises that we are. Depleting resources, water scarcity, poisoned ocean and atmosphere, environmental disaster, changing climate, loss of biodiversity etc.
    During that whole time, I have battled an army of ignorami such as yourself and lost. Now look where we are and still, I am called the fool who is not worth engaging.
    If you want to believe the renewable bullshit, that’s up to you. As I have been stating recently, you and others will learn, the hard way.
    Cheers.

  43. Ella Miller

    Kaye Lee, thank you will try to find out about Ted Mack,
    Jack, yes Tony Windsor does try.

  44. John Lord

    Ted Mack has an essay on how to improve the function of parliament. Do a google search.

  45. Jack Straw

    One last thing Ella. When you weigh everything up the pursuit of money is our downfall. We need Super -Polititicians like Superman/woman.Articulate crash through super heroes.You can live off that prestige.Money Assets, greed kills if that is your only focus

  46. John Lord

    H. How would you go about depopulating the world. What methods would you use.

  47. Kaye Lee

    I would vote for Jacqui in front of anyone the Liberal Party has offered up in Tasmania but I would prefer someone like Lisa Singh. What do Tasmanians think of Nick McKim and Peter Whish-Wilson?

  48. Freethinker

    Oh John please do not ask that question in Canberra it will be a good opportunity to divide society even more.

  49. John Lord

    Thanks Kaye. A great read.

  50. Harquebus

    John Lord
    One child policy, education and contraception. By education, I don’t mean sex education. Education on the consequences of growth on a finite planet. If I could have my way, I would stop all births for a decade. I know, fat chance so, we deal with consequences.
    Cheers.

  51. Ella Miller

    John Lord thank you I will…I badly need some hope …that there are and were politicians who put Australia first…because it seems to me with the way things are , that, the only place the Australian dream of a fair go can only come true in my dreams

  52. Ella Miller

    Kaye Lee. thanks , I will need to read it a few times to digest it all.

  53. Freethinker

    I just wonder if Sally McManus can be the solution for the ALP to change the way of thinking regarding macroeconomics and neoliberalism.
    IMHO we need new blood in the ALP and people like her can offer a lot.

  54. Kaye Lee

    Drinkers would pay far less for a bottle of vodka but much more for cask wine, while booze would be available from supermarkets and corner stores, under major reforms to alcohol regulation being urged on the federal government.

    A single volumetric tax, set at the average rate of $36.50 a litre of alcohol, would halve the effective rate of tax on a bottle of gin or vodka – while the tax on cask wine would increase more than ten-fold.

    “We might all drink more Grange because it would come down in price, but something else, a lower priced wine with the same amount of alcohol, might potentially go up in price,” Australian Tax Office deputy commissioner Tim Dyce told the inquiry.

    The Senate committee also recommended the Commonwealth and states work together to allow alcohol to be sold more widely – including at convenience stores, petrol stations and supermarkets – and that restrictions on trading hours for liquor stores be abolished.

    Senator Leyonhjelm said Australians were drinking more responsibly and should be treated like adults.

    “There’s no reason to believe that just because it’s available in more locations that people will drink more.”

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/sweeping-changes-to-alcohol-tax-and-regulation-urged-on-turnbull-government-20170330-gv9xw4.html

    This from the man who wants to get rid of pool fences and bike helmets

  55. Matters Not

    So maybe H’ derails another thread.

    And this from a person who thinks Senator Lambie has principles. Hilarious.

    As for:

    I am called the fool who is not worth engaging

    Well that someone exercised good ‘judgement’. Probably developed over time. Engagement’ is not possible with anyone who ‘knows’ – everything – while the evidence of poor ‘judgement’ abounds. Not to mention extreme arrogance. One of Plato’s ‘Philosopher Kings’? I don’t think so. While the aspiration might be at the level of Gold or Silver, the evidence suggests a poor quality Bronze. Too much Tin (ear) involved – way above the recommended 12%.

    An extreme case of the Dunning Kruger Effect.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCRc2dfT_E8

    You know – low-ability individuals suffering from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their abilities ..

  56. Harquebus

    Matters Not
    Your side won. Enjoy your plunder, what’s left of it.
    Cheers.

  57. Matters Not

    Your side won.

    Again, it’s ‘stupidity’ writ large. And again annoyingly so. If it’s not black then it must be white. No shades. No nuances. No hope.

    Because the ‘Messiah’ has spoken. Talk about a ‘faith’ based approach to life. Religion rules the day.

    An important scientific message fu@ked up because of … too many basic ‘political errors’ to mention.

  58. Matters Not

    Harquebus, instead of running around like a headless chook crying that the world is ending, (happened yesterday – if not the day before)spend a little time thinking about the nature of science itself. While I could provide any number of links to scholarly articles, try this everyday article as a teaser.

    The history of the philosophy of science throughout the 20th century is marked by sporadic reactions to Karl Popper, breaking out into florid and controversial display and effectively governing the course of the discipline as the century winds to its close. Popper’s most significant critics during this period were the trio of Imre Lakatos, Thomas Kuhn and Paul Feyerabend – very different thinkers who, nonetheless, in their response to the theory of falsification, served to drive the philosophy of science forwards in leaps and bounds.

    scientists get attached to theories – and this, too, is where the sociology of science comes in. Commentators vary on how far they believe that scientists’ attachment to particular paradigms governs their thinking. In the pure realms of science, they’re probably not supposed to get attached at all (theories aren’t cats), but scientists are human, too, no matter how sniffy stringent rationalists might get about the issue.

    Perhaps your thinking is far too attached to your ‘world view’? Do yourself a favour. And think about it.

    But I suspect you won’t! Because you ‘know’ – whereas real scientists ‘know’ they don’t – at least in absolute terms. On the other hand religious believers always ‘know’.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/oct/01/karl-popper-lakatos-kuhn-feyerabend
    B

  59. Michael Taylor

    It’s a very dangerous place this planet of ours. Nobody gets off alive.

    In 5 billion years our sun will have burnt itself out, but a billion or two years before before it does it will expand as it begins to die and the inner planets (including ours) will be disintegrated. We won’t be a cold rock drifting aimlessly in space with a few micro-organisms. We won’t exist.

    Until that happens, I’m going to enjoy myself.

  60. Harquebus

    Matters Not
    There is also something called the exponential function. Perhaps you’ve heard of it.

    Some things for you to ponder. No need to read the articles, the excerpts should give you the general idea. I hope that you will consider them occasionally during your quest to discredit me.

    “It is an untruth that’s both durable and bipartisan; one that the business community, nearly all professional economists, and politicians around the globe reiterate ceaselessly. It is the lie that human society can continue growing its population and consumption levels indefinitely on our finite planet, and never suffer consequences.”
    “now those limits are becoming less and less theoretical, more and more real.”
    “So, BAU is based on growth, and a lie about the long term viability of growth.”
    “The standard run of the LTG world model, which assumes things just continue on as usual, ends with a drastic drop off of human population in the latter half of this century. Resource depletion and pollution result in a failure to produce adequate food supplies and essential services. Indeed every run of the model that tried to find a way around the limits ended in similar results.”
    “If, like me, you have little faith in governments doing the right thing to any significant extent, the good news is that there are also a great many things that can be done to mitigate collapse at the individual, family and local community level.”
    http://theeasiestpersontofool.blogspot.com.au/2017/02/the-biggest-lie.html

    “A new scientific paper by a University of Maryland-led international team of distinguished scientists, including five members of the National Academies, argues that there are critical two-way feedbacks missing from current climate models that are used to inform environmental, climate, and economic policies. The most important inadequately-modeled variables are inequality, consumption, and population.”
    “We cannot separate the issues of population growth, resource consumption, the burning of fossil fuels, and climate risk. They are part of a coupled dynamical system, and, as the authors show, this has dire potential consequences for societal collapse. The implications couldn’t be more profound.”
    https://phys.org/news/2017-02-climate_1.html

    “As the “growth fixes everything” model fails under the burden of skyrocketing debts, the harsh reality becomes unavoidable:”
    “We haven’t “grown” at all. What we’ve done is borrow from future generations to create the illusion of growth.”
    “Fragmentation, discord, discontent, class war: this is the inevitable result of a shrinking pie. Our political, social and economic systems have no history or memory of how to navigate this systemic Degrowth successfully. Everyone will blame someone else for the insolvency and failure, and that is not a recipe for successful adaptation.”
    http://www.oftwominds.com/blogfeb17/pie-shrinks2-17.html

    “recent research from Melbourne University’s Graham Turner shows that the Meadows team did not get it wrong. Their projections for what would happen if we carried on business as usual tally almost exactly with what has actually occurred in the 40 years since 1972.”
    “How did economic growth become accepted as the only solution to virtually all social problems—unemployment, debt and even the environmental damage growth itself causes?”
    “Growth allowed the privileged to maintain and even increase their wealth, while professing to be saving the world from poverty.”
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/ockhamsrazor/whats-the-limit-to-the-planets-growth/6092186

    “We can also deduce that because economic growth is tightly linked to energy consumption, lower amounts of usable energy flowing through an economy will cause that economy to stall out as well.”
    “combining what we know about high levels of debt and flattening energy returns energy there’s really no more room for confusion about why GDP growth is, and will remain, anemic”
    “We have to ask: How many years does it take to finally admit that there’s something seriously wrong with our hopeful story line that robust growth is going to save our debt-ridden bacon?”
    https://www.peakprosperity.com/blog/107796/when-all-blows

    “Anyone who perceives a linear rate of growth, but who is actually up against an exponential rate of growth, is likely to be very surprised at how the end comes very quickly and seemingly out of nowhere. They will be completely blindsided.”
    “Can humans be “smarter than yeast?” Can we be the only species that can successfully anticipate and avoid ecological overshoot and collapse?”
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-how-and-why-sex-differences/201111/how-avoid-population-overshoot-and-collapse

    John Lord
    My apologies for going off the rails again. It seems that sometimes, I just can not help myself.

    Michael Taylor
    If you are going to do that, position yourself closer to the punch bowl. There ain’t much left.

    Cheers.

  61. Kaye Lee

    You would have to be an effing moron to think “human society can continue growing its population and consumption levels indefinitely” and I have never heard one person ever say such a thing let alone “the business community, nearly all professional economists, and politicians around the globe”. How ridiculous and utterly inane. That was enough to save me from bothering with reading the rest.

    Your apologies for taking over every single thread ever written on this site are total crap. You thrive on it. You are the quintessential attention seeker.

    Sorry everyone…the boil burst.

  62. Michael Taylor

    John Lord
    My apologies for going off the rails again. It seems that sometimes, I just can not help myself.

    Consider yourself lucky that John didn’t delete your comments.

    H’, I’ll say this in all seriousness: the authors are growing tired of having all their articles derailed. It has to stop, or they’ll stop it.

  63. silkworm

    H may claim to be an atheist, but he is very cult-like in his thinking.

  64. Harquebus

    The AIMN.
    In this thread, I have been called full of shit and a fool not to be engaged with. I was little riled and struck back. That Kaye Lee does not know what she is talking about in regards to energy.
    As for “having all their articles derailed”, that is an exaggeration.

    My quest is to save our world or at least as much of it and as many as I can. Thinking that I could further my cause by informing your contributors as to the true state of our world and the physical realities that caused it was a mistake on my part. There is still however, your readers and I know that not all them are as pig headed.

    Time will tell and my critics will soon regret their stances.

    Cheers.

  65. jim

    Just why the LNP are going down the gurgler is, its such a waste of time and effort spent on arguments (labor were worse than us) the more you argue equals more fool you, educate ourselves, educate educate educate.

    So we need only look at the big picture going forward and the direction this LNP government is taking us is very very dark.

  66. Kaye Lee

    I have been reading John Lord’s work for years. I truly appreciate his tireless efforts in keeping us up to date with current political news, his insight into broader philosophical issues, the way he crafts his words and the heart that is so obviously behind all he writes.

    John shows infinite patience but mine has run out. I resent his work being hijacked by a one trick pony.

  67. Harquebus

    Kaye Lee
    John Lord is free to edit or delete my comments as he wishes. I have stated that I will not respond negatively if he chooses to do so. I respect him for not going down this path that you so often travel.
    Our current crop of politicians from both sides with their lunatic mindsets and various political machinations, will not save us.

    “Any fool can tell a crisis when it arrives. The real service to the state is to detect it in embryo.” – Isaac Asimov, Foundation

    Cheers.

  68. Roswell

    Thinking that I could further my cause by informing your contributors as to the true state of our world and the physical realities that caused it was a mistake on my part. There is still however, your readers and I know that not all them are as pig headed.

    A mistake, yes, and a failure.

    I study this site’s stats very, very frequently. A few times an hour, when I can, and I notice a disturbing trend whenever Harquebus carries on about the same stuff all the time, derails threads, keeps talking about doom and gloom, and keeps telling people how ignorant they are: the traffic drops by about 50%.

    When people do that to a site then the site can ill-afford to give them a platform here.

  69. Harquebus

    Roswell
    If I was to disappear, theAIMN’s fate will still be that which faces all of us. The business as usual scenario guarantees it. (See my links above.) Do you want to go down blissfully unaware or fighting as I am? The former is a contributing factor to our predicament and who knows, by joining the good fight you might even gain some extra traffic.

    Is this moderation thingy really necessary?

    Cheers.

  70. Kaye Lee

    John has a large following built up over years of hard work. For you to waltz in and show total disregard for his articles and use his hard won audience to put on your own show is despicable.

    Write your own articles and stop piggy-backing on other people’s work.

  71. Alan Baird

    Yes, Jerry suffers from “Gina Syndrome” wherein the subject imagines people want to work for $2 a day. And yes, Harquebus does seem to imply we need to sit and contemplate our collective navel and anything other action is almost certain to be counter-productive. Boy, what a stretch between these two “ideals”. Here’s to South America and Banana Dictatorships!

  72. Roswell

    Harquebus, if you honestly think this site will disappear without you then all I can say is your arrogance and illusion of self-importance are astonishing. The stats indicate that you are damaging this site, yet you still claim to be its saviour.

    The authors, the owners, and the readers have had enough. We’ll be carrying on without you.

  73. Harquebus

    Kaye Lee
    The preservation of our one and only life support system takes precedence. I have no guilt and feel no shame in what I do.

    Roswell
    You have misinterpreted me. Stay or leave makes no difference without a fundamental change in the way our modern society operates.
    Cheers.

  74. Michael Taylor

    John has a large following built up over years of hard work.

    The effort John puts in is immeasurable. I don’t know how many hours he puts in to research and write a daily post, but I do know that once it’s published he spends about an hour promoting and sharing it across dozens of Facebook sites.

    This month John reached an amazing milestone: one million readers. He writes to thousands of people, not just one. His readers are here to read what he writes.

  75. Barry

    I too am a Tasmanian. Jacquie Lambi while having some, shall I say less than coherent ideas, does stand by what she believes (one of very few that have gone into bat for ex servicemen/women). I don’t know how others decide where their votes will go in an election but I use the method of, who will try and do the most good for most of the population. Think you’ll be able to figure out who gets the last or no vote.

  76. Harquebus

    Michael Taylor
    That is good. He has the potential to make a difference as does theAIMN.
    Cheers.

  77. Kaye Lee

    “The preservation of our one and only life support system takes precedence.”

    If you ever had an idea about how to do that you might be worth listening to. Your suggestions to date have been for no children for ten years though you have no idea on how you would achieve that or any thought of the consequences. Oh and buy a horse.

    Get over yourself Harquebus.

  78. Harquebus

    Kaye Lee
    For the second time, that suggestion came with “If I could I would” and as unrealistic as it is, it still one more suggestion than I have heard coming from you which, is zero.

    Here again for the umpteenth time are my suggestions and so what if few billionaires go broke:

    1: Forget economics. It is “fatally” flawed. It has polluted the planet, poisoned us all, does not factor physics nor the environment and is what has got us into this mess in the first place.
    2: Implement national and encourage international population reduction strategies otherwise, one way or another, nature will drag us back to sustainable levels and it won’t be pretty.
    3: Properly manage our finite resources which, are currently being pillaged.
    4: Reduce consumption using quotas and not with unfair taxation. We can not shop our way to sustainability and we can not borrow our way to prosperity.
    5: Plant lots and lots of trees. Massive scale reforestation will help the climate, rainfall and be a valuable renewable resource for future generations.
    6: Restore the liberties and freedoms stolen from us by corporate serving politicians.

    Cheers.

  79. Freethinker

    Harquebus , if you think that the AIMN and John with his excellent work please move on.
    This have become a lack of respect the the site editors, authors and members.
    If this was a soccer forum I will think that a child have hacked your name.

  80. johnlord2013

    Michael. Thanks everyone for your support and kind words. Yes I do spend a considerable amount of time writing every day and it really disappoints me when I find people, because someone has changed the topic, talking about something else. It just seems so unfair. Reluctantly, this time I suggest we would be better off without H. It’s time.

  81. Roswell

    One million! Wow, that’s fabulous and well-deserved. Congratulations, John, and to this site for giving you the voice.

  82. Roswell

    I might add that it disappoints me to no end to see the discussion in your articles gravitate to whatever Harquebus wants it to revolve around. I’m sure that people stop reading.

  83. burniebobthe_b

    Kaye LeeApril 2, 2017 at 6:41 pm
    What do Tasmanians think of Nick McKim and Peter Whish-Wilson?
    This Tasmanian and most I know reackon they are both a waste of space and rank just above Abetz.Wish Wilson the former Merchant Banker and vineyard man makes good use of backpackers and thinks penalty rates are past their use by date and Nick the useless one wants all the jobs to be UBERised in future with not a thought for award wages let alone penalty rates,and the locals let the Greens know exactly what they thought of the hopeless lot at the last state election

  84. Freethinker

    Roswell it will be a shame for people stop reading, IMHO the best it is to ignore the comments by those that do not respect the author.

  85. Roswell

    Freethinker, spare a thought for the author.

    Yours is a wise suggestion, but sometimes it must be hard for the author to ignore.

  86. Barry

    I read the articles everyday, follow the comments and sometimes I put in my two cents worth. First thing I check of a morning is John Lord’s thoughts, don’t always agree but there you go. The thing that bugs me about the comments, no matter what the site, there is ALWAYS one or two that seem hell bent on turning the discussion to whatever their hobby horse happens to be. If these people are so passionate about a subject, write an article for publication on here or other sites or start their own blog/site. That way they’ll have their say and the comments will be restricted to that instead of the same things cropping up in nearly every thing that is published. I reckon you could write an article about the intricacies of tiddly winks and they would still be there, pushing their barrow. Rant over. Everyone enjoy the rest of your day.

  87. Kathy Heyne

    Perhaps the tax cuts were like the penalty rate cuts, changing the law to bring them in line with actual corporate practice?

  88. Alan Baird

    AS this thread has wandered all over the shop, it should be restated that Treasury estimates of the corporate tax cuts effects are that they will have a minuscule effects on wages so it’s this particular trickle is going to be snail like and a mere series of drips like its perpetrators. Jobs won’t mushroom, and they won’t pay more. If anything, jobs will reduce because of other factors eg. robotics. If we had a half-way decent press, a constant follow up of the recent bullshit Morrison and Turnbull gave us about this “tax victory” with a “Why are we waiting?” chorus of headlines as Jobson Growth failed to turn up. These bastards deserve to be exposed for their duplicity but we’ve so many distractions…. look over there!

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