Day to Day Politics: Which one is the villain?
Tuesday 30 August. 2016
1 Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has ruled out a parliamentary vote on legalising same-sex marriage if the Opposition rejects a plebiscite.
Now before Labor has made a decision, Nick Xenophon has decided that his party will vote against the Marriage Equality bill.
“This is a matter that the Parliament can and should decide on as a free vote of all members and senators”.
“In our representative democracy we are paid to make decisions on behalf of Australians who have voted us into office. This is a decision the Parliament should make now”.
So the decision is in Labor’s hands and it will probably agree with Xenophon.
Who is the villain in all this? When weighing up your answer please take into account that Turnbull is the Prime Minister, Shorten is not.
Is it a Prime Minister who believes in marriage equality and before accepting the position of PM opposed a plebiscite? A PM who would spend an enormous amount to confirm something already known just to appease the right-wing of his party. But of course last October he signed a written agreement with the Nationals that included going ahead with Abbott’s plebiscite. To do otherwise would likely cost him the prime ministership. So it’s more about self interest than marriage equality.
A Prime Minister who could bring on a vote this week to settle the matter in the manner Xenophon suggests.
Or is it Bill Shorten who could put all that aside and go with the plebiscite to achieve marriage equality?
Personally I’m for the Parliament doing its job. It may take another three, it won’t go away but in the end it will be Labor who will claim the moral high ground.
2 In The Australian on Saturday Chris Kenny wrote: “There is a growing divide in Australia between people – including politicians and journalists – who refuse to allow debate about sensitive issues and those who are not afraid to state their views, even if they are seen to be politically incorrect. The unwillingness of some to openly debate issues such as climate change, immigration and Islamist extremism has been reflected at the ballot box, with strong support at the 2016 federal election for crossbenchers who are willing to state opinions that are contrary to the views of those who wish to stifle debate”.
I am at a loss to explain how he reaches this conclusion. Andrew Bolt, Alan Jones and many others have been spruiking their ‘political incorrect’ opinions for many years. No one has suggested they can’t. They have all the free speech and opportunity a democracy can provide. The Australian does it every day. Murdoch media flogs many of these issues on a regular basis. People have a choice on whether they want to debate them. Nobody in so far as I can see is preventing them from doing so.
Perhaps Kenny might consider that the debate on Climate Change is all but over. I write every day. I don’t in the least feel that under the current law I am in any way restricted.
The fight to retain 18c is not yet over.
An observation.
“Does Australia have a left-wing shock jock?”
3 Will Labor come to the party on the omnibus bills? It shouldn’t on the basis that even though it said it would, the Clean Energy component was moved into its environment policy. They lost the election so it reverts back to its original policy. Certainly support the other measures, reluctantly, but in the best interest of budget repair but the Clean Energy component.
When I say ‘reluctantly’, I mean it. Some of those welfare measures will hurt a lot of people.
4 If people require evidence of Malcolm Turnbull’s stuff up of the NBN rollout consider this. The Government now has to find another $20billion to fund the project because of higher than expected costs into next year. Add to that it will have to change plans for 1.5 million households to avoid a potential cost blowout.
It seems the Coalition underestimated the cost of connecting old cables. NBN as a company has reached the limit of its borrowing capacity and the Government will have to find the $20 billion.
To say that Turnbull hasn’t stuffed up monumentally, would be to deny the truth of it. It should have been done Labor’s way in the first place.
5 Pauline Hanson gave 60 Minutes what can loosely be described as an interview on Sunday night. It was absolutely riveting stuff. Clug, clug. We found out that she carries a copy of the Koran in her hand bag. You know, just so she can be better informed.
“What I’d like to see is … these Muslims that are not the radicals, the ones that want to live their life in peace and harmony and quite happy to be here in Australia and love and embrace this nation, then work with me to find the answers” she said.
Then when she was asked what she had to say to Australia her face contorted into ‘nonplusness’. She had nothing to say to Australia. Nothing at all for about a minute. It was sort of like when she was asked on the same program in 1996 whether she was xenophobic and she didn’t know what the word meant. Or more like that Mark Riley interview with Tony Abbott. Remember when he got the shakes and couldn’t answer?
Enough said on that. A disaster.
6 Today the Government will proceed with its 25 point plan. Yes, another plan. Actually its 25 pieces of legislation 23 of which are hungover from the old parliament. Some of these have been languishing on the notice paper for yonks. Some go back to 2013. And yes, you got it in one. The 23 can all be claimed as Abbott’s. Turnbull is yet to bring anything to the table. There is no mention of the NBN, advanced manufacturing, local jobs, Medicare or climate change.
A disaster waiting to happen.
My thought for the day.
“There is often a subtle difference between what you want to do and what you should do”.
PS: If you want a good read on growing inequality read this.
43 comments
Login here Register here-
Möbius Ecko -
Steve Howton -
kerri -
Freethinker -
wam -
Jack -
helvityni -
John Lord -
auntyuta -
seaworkr -
Winston Smythe -
paulwalter -
helvityni -
Jock Strap -
Klaus -
NFP. -
stephengb2014 -
Winston Smythe -
Klaus -
Terry2 -
Klaus -
helvityni -
stephengb2014 -
Adrianne Haddow -
Klaus -
Klaus -
Terry2 -
Wayne Turner -
OldWomBat -
helvityni -
Michael Taylor -
Freethinker -
Terry2 -
Möbius Ecko -
helvityni -
Elle -
Elle -
Elle -
Elle -
Michael Taylor -
Elle -
Freethinker -
Flogga
Return to home pageI am sick of the ABC throwing the marriage equality plebiscite back onto Shorten in what seems to me to be a deliberate tactic to run interference for Turnbull.
Many people are banging on with their demands to vote on my civil rights as a form of democracy. Some even admit that it’s the sole reason they voted for Liberal.
Voting on a civil right or a human right is not democracy. It is mob rule. A democratic country is governed for all law-abiding citizens regardless of whether or not they may be a minority.
Democracy was demonstrated when, in early July, we elected (by the narrowest of margins) the Coalition to lead Parliament.
Previous Parliaments have shown us that simply offering something as an election bait cannot guarantee that thing will happen. That thing must still be passed through the Senate and, of course, may be blocked by the Opposition.
Aside from the obscene cost of the proposed Plebiscite, and the fact that we have no clear idea of what the question(s) will even be, the idea that the mob should decide on the legal rights for a minority group in society is abhorrent and certainly not democracy as practised under our system of Representative Government.
Given that those rights cannot and will not impact on any person who doesn’t identify as LGBTI, there is simply no logical reason to suggest the equality shouldn’t be granted, or that the majority should vote on the matter.
In my submission, the Government can – and most certainly should – move into line with over twenty other jurisdictions and accept that LGBTI people must be entitled to the same protections and responsibilities at Law as any other tax payer.
If Turnbull really wants the plebiscite why doesn’t he pay for it?
Just like he paid for the election!
I am not impressed with the ALP attitude on this seating on the fence to see if they can score more points in an issue so important.
I was expecting that they will saying that the party oppose the plebiscite but it appears that it is the possibility that the ALP will approve it with the excuse that if not it will take few years more to resolve the matter.
I agree that Turnbull position was for the parliament to vote but he is a member of the party that in it majority voted for a plebiscite so Turnbull position have to be, go with the majority or resign from the party.
I detest the coalition but at the same time I dislike more and more the ALP and specially the left faction without guts.
Good read this morning, lord.
Your description of pauline was a scream but she is innocently ‘inciteful’, with all the amoral attributes of the rabbott.
So the disaster, will be the media’s use(they have had 5 years practice with the rabbott and his mayhem men) of her fervent beliefs and thoughtless rantings.
Sadly ‘subtle’ is usually spelled ‘gulf’ by the government.
Loved the link!! As expected the mean rose and the median fell. No brainer as to which turnball’s bunch uses?
It’s a bit late now, but why didn’t we put the marriage equality question(s) on the census? Everybody is banging on about how much this plebiscite will cost but the census cost more and we could have got so much more out of it.
eg Do you want a RC on Islam. Y/N.
Do you want a RC into bank. Y/N
etc..
It seems we missed a great opportunity to get a real feeling of what the whole country cares about
At the Sunday school I had a problem understanding how Lot’s wife could all of a sudden turn into a pillar of salt.
Still the times of miracles are not over: on Sixty Minutes our dear Pauline can ossify into ‘nonplusness’ , and a simple question by a TV interviewer can give Abbott ‘the shakes’….
A good read, John Lord. 🙂
Rupert Bloody Murdoch and the other Baron’s of the media! They are the elephants in the soup. John There is a much bigger difference between what I aught to do and what I can do! I dispute the claim that ” People have a choice on whether they want to debate (against?) them. Nobody in so far as I can see is preventing them from doing so.” That is simply not true! In any sort of honest debate one side does have a megaphone with the other restricted to mere soundbites. The proven Liar Bolt has regular access to HIS OWN program on newspaper, radio and TV.
Jack BOSWELL sent this on Facebook. I answered thus.
I should have expanded on that part because we are as one on that point. Thanks I’m upset with myself because I have often argued that point.
“To do otherwise would likely cost him the prime ministership.”
This is about it: To retain the prime ministership is more important to him than sticking to what he believes in.
I wholly dislike this kind of democracy. Why can we not have politicians who stick to what they believe in?
It is a typical liberal move when you consider that we have all this agonising about gay marriage but it is OK for the Prime Minister to declare war on another country and invade it.
2 In The Australian on Saturday Chris Kenny wrote: “There is a growing divide in Australia between people – including politicians and journalists – who refuse to allow debate about sensitive issues and those who are not afraid to state their views, even if they are seen to be politically incorrect. The unwillingness of some to openly debate issues such as climate change, immigration and Islamist extremism has been reflected at the ballot box, with strong support at the 2016 federal election for crossbenchers who are willing to state opinions that are contrary to the views of those who wish to stifle debate”.
I am at a loss to explain how he reaches this conclusion. Andrew Bolt, Alan Jones and many others have been spruiking their ‘political incorrect’ opinions for many years. No one has suggested they can’t. They have all the free speech and opportunity a democracy can provide. The Australian does it every day. Murdoch media flogs many of these issues on a regular basis. People have a choice on whether they want to debate them. Nobody in so far as I can see is preventing them from doing so.
Answer John
Bullies,Crazy People, Idiots, Ideologist’s,Dodgy Journos decide these things in their head.Or conveniently avoid it.Their extreme Bias that is.
They forget to tell the world they are a Bigot, A Sexist,Fearful,Lack Empathy, Insecure, Addict, Obsessive Compulsive, Part Time Axe Murderer, Homophobic, Liar, Lazy or have a minor mental disorder they hope goes away and refuse to deal with.
I thjnk the ALP has challenged the Coalition on leadership with the base resting upon the question of authenticity. Turnbull cannot appear credible with a long suffering public with the Coalition wasting $160 million on the pleb for something passed in a moment in parliament.
Turnbull seems not shamed at the low conduct of himself and the Coalition and his attempt to beat up the budget issues again, including on his favourite scapegoats the unemployed, and it begins to seem this focus has been employed to draw attention away from the public seeing the reality of who controls the government re gay marriage with another group of pet scapegoats put through a hate campaign mill also to avoid hard right wingers facing up, as with asylum seekers.
Mean while on QA, it is mentioned that a serious problem exists at the Top End with heart disease, from memory, that the money could be more productively spent on.
I liked Emma Albericci’s cool style of questioning of Mr Brandis on Lateline; he got hotter (redder), Emma stayed calm…
You just can’t please those Liberals, they are always rabbiting about what Labor DID, now they want to tell Labor what to DO….
helvityni; Next they will blame ABC bias.
The LNP got what it wanted. A delay to the question even being posed. I fully agree with Steve Howton. Already, the Catholics and so called Christian came out saying they would fight SSM tooth and nail. The Plebiscite has not even been announced as happening, yet they are out of the starting blocks. This would indeed end up in Mob rule over a minority and it would be a bloodbath. And I am sorry to say, De Natale might not be completely wrong when he said there could even be some suicides coming out of this. I hate to see Christensen, Brandis, Bernady etc. in full flight, fighting a yes vote. They are capable of inciting the Mob.
John Lord.
Personally, I think the villain is Turnbull. I personally did not vote for the mongrel gutless no balls dog to be our prime minister and I refuse to recognise him as such, to my self he is just a damn dumbass puppet you pull the strings whatever way you want him to move.
Marriage equality Plebiscite is a Tony “F*CK YOU AUSTRALIA” Abbott policy and he knew how much it would hurt all Australian’s to have it, yet he is still enforcing it upon countless thousands who just want the same rights as others, to be able to marry the person they love.
As for shorten, yes i have read and read over again that he may sit on the fence with the plebiscite legislation until turnbull presents the facts, but let us also remember that because of Rudd and Gillards demise over same sex marriage was a lesson that Shorten has chosen no to repeat and he went to the Elections this year offering the best we will ever have been offered…………To legislate it into law within
100 days of being voted into power………… Yet……………People,for want of a better description, still voted for that f*ckwit they are proud to call a prime minister malcolm turnbull, simply because they liked the idea of his policies and mandate???? Ummm excuse me, but what damn policies and what damn mandate??? I kept right up to the minute on everything Election 2016 and all I heard was labor this, labor that, labor here, labor there, labors fault, blame labor
Seriously, are people that dumb like mindless cattle that just eats and shits and sleeps in it’s own crap, that they have to be forced to watch the truth??? We already had that with Tony “F*CK YOU AUSTRALIA” Abbott, we certainly did not need it again with Malcolm “I AM NOT A DICTATOR” Turnbull who is nothing less than a dog suffering from rabies and scurvy.
Malcolm Turnbull should just resign, hand the reigns over to Bill shorten. He ( Malcolm Turnbull ) Along with Abbott, should just resign and hang their heads in shame……………. 2 plagues should be made in their
honor…………..The plagues of shame and embarrassment …………
As for Pauline Hanson, well, enough said on her as it stands………….
My Question for the Day
Can We, The civil people of Australia Still “Tar and Feather” The shame of our Government Leaders and toss them to the junk heap??
I do not believe that the Labor party should support any proposed legislation that will make the poor, the sick and the pensioners, indeed any welfare recipient, worse off. If they do, I will be extremely disappointed.
Labor and the Left is being vilified at every opportunity by these LNP pretenders, Labor owes them nothing.
As for Labors continued talk of budget repair, I am disgusted? We do not need budget repair we need policies that reduce private debt, before we are plunged into a depression.
Labor is supposed to support equity, but at the moment Labor is hanging on to neoliberal economic mismanagement.
SGB
auntyuta: This is about it: To retain the prime ministership is more important to him than sticking to what he believes in.
I wholly dislike this kind of democracy. Why can we not have politicians who stick to what they believe in?
Turnball is just a walking talking, wanking, Ego packed narcissistic waffler :It’s 110% all about him. He should be running an Art Gallery or something not this country.
Stephen2014, I agree with you. Labor is leaning too far to the LNP. But it is not only the LNP who vilify Labor, it is also the MSM.
Already, I fear that both, the MSM and the LNP will blame Labor for budget problems and the SSM not happening. What a hypocrisy. It is stunning.
The money sits at the other end of the spectrum, way away from the few welfare recipients. I refuse to call pensioners welfare recipients.
What about the pollies? The leaners find it easy to blame the pensioners, who may have worked and paid tax for 40 years, for needing pension.
I am now in my 30th year of working in IT, with a handsome income and a yearly, average tax bill of 60K. I have also lost a business in 2000 and with it our house. I have no super to speak off but I will be a leaner within 5 years.
That is the gruesome society I live in.
Tony Abbott was quite prophetic when he said that there would be a plebiscite or nothing. He would ensure that any attempt to have a parliamentary vote would be blocked.
Tony, still calling the shots.
Hi Winston,
Real Artists, visiting his Gallery, would be stunned by the emptiness of ideas, originality and creativity. The bloke is void of any character traits which make a functioning person, believing in the future of a common, sharing society.
Spot on ,Klaus. Where is the creativity…???
I worked from 1965 to 2013, I was made redundant 5 times, I lost the so called compulsary superscheme rollover after 1983, 3 times because the company didn’t pay up, but I never m7ssed a days work, getting a new job the next day.
In 1980 I took out a super scheme which was sold to me saying it would mature with $250,000, it barely matured at $70,000.
Over the last 20 years I saved every cent I could spare into my super, after also paying an average of $60,000 per year in taxes.
I was semi forced to, retire at 67 (its complicated). So after a lifetme of work with never a day out of work and paying taxes (which was supposed to include my aged pension) I find myself having to take a part pension to make ends meet.
Don’t get me wrong – I am alright, compared to many, as long as I can keep my part pension, but without it I will be trying to find work at 69.
I was an Aircraft Maintenance Engineer, I could not in all conciousness do that again (eyesight and limbs are too worn, I would be dangerous). Looks like it might be busking begging or similar!
I think Malcolm has shown plenty of creativity, in the lies his party tells, in the way he and his msm buddies shift the blame for all the LNP failures of governance onto Labor, for his wriggling out of the Panama offshore tax haven blame, and for his monumental stuff up of the NBN.
Well stephen,
We will be part of the leaners/taxed nots. That F#$@wit ScoMo with his gilded pension is telling us that. Wonder what he has achieved in his lifetime. Has he actually built/created/maintained anything? Or has he used the wrecking ball to smash the best Australian society has to offer.
Your story makes me mad.
Yes Adrianna, plenty of negative, sinister energy and creativity. But certainly not fit for an art gallery. Less fit for a healthy Australian society. It’s not in their DNA.
There is another twist to the marriage equality plebiscite if it goes ahead as now scheduled in 2017, and that is:
“Malcolm Turnbull has declared that a referendum to recognise Indigenous Australians in the constitution is “achievable” next year [2017], saying the first hurdle is to come up with a form of words that “sings” to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.”
Can you imagine us having two national votes – one a plebiscite and one a Constitutional referendum – in one year ? We would become an international oddity.
The ‘Recognise’ referendum was meant to be held in May 2017 recognising 50 years since the 1967 referendum on aboriginal rights.
I think it’s safe to say that if the Abbott plebiscite is held in 2017 then the aboriginal referendum will be shuffled off to another year.
Steve Howton – Spot on and perfectly said.
Also,Shorten and Labor should of got off the fence already.They are so GUTLESS and POLITICALLY GULLIBLE & HOPELESS.If they had already said “We are voting against the non-biding waste of money vote no matter what”.The MSM would NOT be able to carry on with “It’s now up to Labor…”.Labor MUST vote against this waste of time and money – If they GUTLESSLY buckle and vote for it.Then Bill Shorten must quit as Labor leader.
This whole thing is happening all because Turnbull is a GUTLESS WIMP.I don’t care what he signed and I don’t care what he promised the electorate – He should drop the expensive bad policy.I won’t hold the dropping of this bad policy against him.Also,he lies to the electorate when it suits him eg: “Advocacy NOT slogans” then = “jobs and growth”,so his party have no right to complain about the dumping of this bad policy,if they do they are hypocrites.HE WON’T CAUSE TURNBULL IS GUTLESS.
And on another front … Mr Jobson Growth is still waiting in the wings to make an appearance. Everyone is waiting, even the lnp because they don’t know what he looks like either.
Mal wants to give $160 Million to Ms Plebiscite to spend, Mr Jobson Growth might need it more….
OldWomBat, Mr Growth only makes an appearance during election campaigns. He’ll be back again in 2019.
I am confused judging people and start thinking that many are in denial regarding the willing of the majority.
I guess that it is because they cannot face the truth of what the majority of the electorate wants.
The issue of the plebiscite (which I do not support) it is clear, people voted for a parties and independents that have a clear position on that and it is a plebiscite.
Polls show overwhelming support for a plebiscite.
Malcolm Turnbull even if he is under the opinion (I doubt it) that it should be resolved by parliament vote he accepted the wishing of the majority of his party. People know that and voted for them. Malcolm still more popular than Bill.
To reinforce the position of the coalition, just in case that people doubt it, the electorate have voted for Pauline and others who support the plebiscite.
In another nasty issue, the 18c it is in the news that Bernardy has the support of 20 coalition senators plus Derryn Hinch, Bob Day,David Leyonhjelm and One Nation senators.
Do I need to start with the refugees issues in the detention camps? no, you all know the reality.
It is sad, we are in the minority, the majority of the people want this kind of politicians and their ideology in power.
Do not blame Malcolm Turnbull, Pauline and the others, accept that the sad reality is that we have what the majority of people want and the behavior of this parliamentarians reflect our society and wishes.
Yes, we are the minority and have to wait to the next election and hope.
By the way, there is currently a six member Danish parliamentary ‘Immigration and Integration Affairs Committee’ visiting Nauru on a fact finding mission: it’s not clear if Australian journalists (press or TV) have been allowed to accompany them.
One of the members of the delegation said that “although she found the Australian offshore detention system “grotesque”, the trip — planned for several months — was a chance for her to “ask some of the questions that the Australian Government is preventing journalists from asking”.
It will be interesting to see and hear from this delegation when they return to Australia.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrFRZRSXEAAnt7z.jpg
A wonderful picture of the ALP the L-NP can’t match.
A truly wonderful picture, ME, thanks for the link.
” 3 Will Labor come to the party on the omnibus bills? ”
” 6 Today the Government will proceed with its 25 point plan. Yes, another plan. Actually its 25 pieces of legislation 23 of which are hungover from the old parliament. ”
Opposition frontbencher Tony Burke has rebuked the government’s approach to budget repair, accusing them of lying about the detail of the centrepiece omnibus savings bill that the Coalition challenged Labor to support.
Mr Burke says the government’s attempts to win Labor’s support for more than $6 billion of savings have been “entirely deceptive” and denied Labor had previously supported all the proposals as has been claimed.
“They said there were 21 measures. It turns out there were 24″.
—-
Confusing, is Burke referring to Turnbull’s 25 point plan here or something else?
Apparently the Omnibus Bill is 600 pages and they only received a copy Monday night?
What exactly is in this 600 page Omnibus Bill besides the ARENA, energy supplement payment slash, etc?
Hopefully after Wednesday night the public might be able to find out eh and read it?
—–
” The Labor caucus is undergoing internal debate over various contentious measures contained in the omnibus bill, including the abolition of the energy supplement for social security recipients and the cuts to the Australian Renewable Energy Agency.
Anthony Albanese warned on Sunday that the party should be “very cautious about voting for anything that hurts some of the most underprivileged people in our community”.
—–
Please tell me this is just the usual media fabricating spin. I hope to gosh labor is NOT having internal debate over whether to agree to slashing the energy supplement? I mean there should not be any debate on there. It’s a non-starter.
The Budget Savings (Omnibus) Bill 2016
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3035529-SKM-C364e16082919270.html
Do I understand this correctly, ALP are in agreement with most of the Budget Saving (cuts) proposed?
wow, just wow. Re the Budget Savings Bill (refer to the link).
There is so much more in that Bill than just ARENA and Energy Supplement Payment that WILL impact on so many Australian households. Students, families, carers, pensioners, senior citizens in aged care, medicare!
A brand new Interest rate (9%) slapped on welfare recipient debtors.
So much more in there, my head hurts.
Yet we have only heard from Labor they aren’t keen on ARENA and Energy Supplement Payment being slushed. hmm What about the rest of it?
Budget Savings (Omnibus) Bill 2016 https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3035529-SKM-C364e16082919270.html
Holy crap, Elle. It’s true, ain’t it? “There’s never been a more exciting time to be an Australian. Not!
Michael, yeah for who, eh?
Elle said, quote: ” The Labor caucus is undergoing internal debate over various contentious measures contained in the omnibus bill, including the abolition of the energy supplement for social security recipients and the cuts to the Australian Renewable Energy Agency.
Anthony Albanese warned on Sunday that the party should be “very cautious about voting for anything that hurts some of the most underprivileged people in our community”.
—–
Please tell me this is just the usual media fabricating spin. I hope to gosh labor is NOT having internal debate over whether to agree to slashing the energy supplement? I mean there should not be any debate on there. It’s a non-starter. end of quote
No Elle it is not a media fabrication, it is a leak from members of the left that are very concerned that the ALP will give in.
As usual the left have not the guts to stay firm looking for the interest of the people and not just keeping their seat secure.
Look what happens with the plebiscite issue, we all know well what it is the position of the left faction leaders but they do not come open to say that they will vote for NO regardless of Shorten position.
This is why the ALP do not gain any votes.
stephengb2014 … if you have been paying an average of $60,000 tax per annum over the last 20 years you must have been a big earner which makes me wonder whether you have a Ferrarri collection if you now need to take a pension 3 years after retiring to make ends meet.