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Day to Day Politics: Oh no what a bloody shocker.

PM Edition 30 March 2017

When I saw the headline I had to read it twice. The Government had apparently made a submission about the minimum wage that in part said:

People who earn $17.70 an hour are “often found in high-income households”.

Melbourne broadcaster Neil Mitchell in an interview with Michaelia Cash attempted to make sense of it.

MITCHELL: But Minister, please, please, I understand that, I think we all understand that. The point is, in political terms this line from your department, this line from the Government about low-paid workers being found in high-income households is poison. The electorate will look at that and say ‘You elite lot’. I mean, how many of the middle-aged women going and cleaning toilets in hotels today are going home to a rich sugar daddy?

CASH: No, no, no, please…

MITCHELL: That is what you’re saying here.

CASH: No, no, I really… No, no, no. I do take issue with that because that is not…

MITCHELL: Quote, “are often found in high income households”.

CASH: But again, what you would do, you are taking one sentence and you are distorting the fact.

MITCHELL: Alright, I give up.

MITCHELL: Well you tell me. What does it mean “are often found in high-income households”? How many of the 200,000 people struggling along on $17.70 an hour are coming from high-income households, how relevant is the minimum wage in that case?

CASH: Oh look, can I tell you, the minimum wage is absolutely relevant and no one denies that.

MITCHELL: Minister, you don’t have a figure here, do you?

CASH: No, no, no…what is…it’s not that we don’t have a figure Neil…

MITCHELL: You do have a figure? Give it to me!

CASH: It’s very much that you need to look at the minimum wage review as a whole, okay?

MITCHELL: You’ve put this argument that – I agree you’re putting other arguments as well – but you’ve put this argument that many of the people on the lowest wage are actually coming from wealthier households. How many of them?

CASH: OK, OK.

MITCHELL: That’s a simple point, how many, what percentage?

CASH: No, OK, I don’t have the figure, OK, but it’s not as simple as that, as I said, you pick and choose a particular line from the submission and then what you then lose is the totality of what the submission…

MITCHELL: What’s this line mean, quote “low income workers are often found in high income households”. What does that mean?

CASH: Again, often what it is that they will have another partner that has a high income but and they are part of the contribution to that household’s income.

MITCHELL: And what percentage of the low income workers are in that position?

CASH: Well as I said there’s only about 200,000 workers that are actually paid at the minimum wage and that is why when you actually look at where the majority of workers lie, the vast majority of people are paid under awards and they actually receive more.

MITCHELL: I understand that, but what percentage of the 200,000 as you say in your submission found in high income households?

CASH: Well, it’s not so much what percentage…

MITCHELL: Well of course it is!

CASH: No no no, because you’ve actually got to look at the minimum wage review in to…to you can’t just literally pick and choose one sentence. So when you look at all of the information that the Government has provided to the minimum wage submission, and again it doesn’t matter who is in power, it’s contemporary economic information.

CASH: Basically the role of the government when it comes to providing information to the commission on the minimum wage review is to put in contemporary economic information to help the Commission determine what level of increase …

MITCHELL: I understand all that, what do you mean by the low paid workers are often found in high income households?

CASH: Well basically, what we look at is completely all of the information that is provided and what we say to the commission is you need to ensure that you take in to account the economic outlook that in particular, in particular, how we are going to support employers…

MITCHELL: Yes, I understand all that. But what do you mean by…

CASH: … you have high income person in the household…

MITCHELL: Oh dear…

CASH: … but then you’ll often have a second person in the household that doesn’t necessarily earn as much money.

Senator Cash could not say how many people were in this position; So there you have it. I hope it all made sense to you.

Another thought for the day.

“If we did everything perfectly the first time, we would have nothing left to improve on”

 


57 comments

  1. longwhitekid

    Michaelia Cashconverter is one of the most full-of-shit ministers in the political history of this country. What an absolute fraud!

  2. Klaus

    Totally figures. That woman has never been on top of any facts. She gets caught out regularly.

    What I am missing from the interchange is the question of what she is actually recommending to the commission?

    I think the last sentence said it all. You need to think about the Employer!!! I think that is all that is needed to know from that vicious twat.

    So, how many low income earners do have a rich sidekick and don’t deserve any increase. Interesting insight into a very basic, vicious character by the name of Cash.

  3. Zathras

    This is what 1383 first preference votes out of 1,413,553 gets you in the Senate – someone who also forgets to declare a $1.4million investment property.

    Cash indeed.

  4. lawrencewinder

    Cash constantly proves the maxim “Empty vessels…….” She is deliriously incompetent and such a travesty of humanity.

  5. Peter F

    Don’t you just love the line’It’s not as simple as that’ when her whole position is based on claiming that it ISN ‘as simple as that’

    Hope she isn’t around long enough to cop the same pension as Bronny.

  6. Kaye Lee

    In its submission to the commission’s annual wage review process, the government said increasing the minimum wage was “not an efficient way to address relative living standards or the needs of the low-paid”, warning that an “excessive” pay rise could imperil job creation in a changing economy.

    So we cut penalty rates because that’s sure to help the needs of the low-paid. We freeze the superannuation guarantee because that will improve their relative living standards. We quarantine property tax concessions for wealthy investors because that will help the poor find a home.

  7. Hettie Lynch

    Young people living with Mum and Dad while they struggle to get some work experience might possibly be part of a high income household, but most kids from those homes are at Uni, heading for highly paid professions.
    The rapidly aging nursing assistants who work in aged care are more likely to have partners in low paid work, or be widows. Really struggling as they approach their retirement.
    Economics 101. Increase the lowest incomes to a secent level and the economy booms. Businesses need customers with money to spend.
    Giving tax cuts to business does NOT help the economy.

  8. keerti

    So the minister doesn’t have command of the simplest numbers affecting her submission. Perhaps she was too busy not declaring her assets to ask her minions to do the relevant research. We are asked to believe that this is a mature, economically able government, but it can’t even get the very small things right! A competent prime minister would surely demand more from his/her “team”.

  9. Egalitarian

    She’s an insult to all good humanity and she is as dumb as dogshit too.

  10. 1petermcc

    Not the first time asking Cash for details has bought her completely undone. I think she went to Sco Mo’s shouty finishing school. The more cornered she gets the louder she gets, and it never seems to occur to her she looks like an idiot.

  11. Alistair

    So the message has two dimensions and is:

    1. If you’re an adult or marriageable/partnership age, make sure you marry/partner up with someone who’s well off.
    2. If you’re a young person not ready to make the marriage/partnership commitment, make sure you’re born to parents who are well off.

    Staggeringly stupid, arrogant and condescending.

  12. Kaye Lee

    Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has accepted an apology from his Employment Minister Michaelia Cash after she failed to disclose an investment property on time.

    Federal Government frontbencher Josh Frydenberg said Senator Cash’s indiscretion was a “very minor” issue and there were bigger issues to tackle.

    So if I forget to tell the ATO or Centrelink about $1.4 million in assets can I just say sorry and tell them they should get on with handling bigger issues?

  13. helvityni

    Where do the Libs find these people; like Mr Mitchell, I give up…

    Maybe she sees herself as our very own Margaret Thatcher. 🙂

  14. jimhaz

    Belle Gibson might be able to improve her ability to tell lies. Must write to Cashie to see if she’ll offer her a job as spokesperson.
    She could probably learn a thing or two from Kellyanne Conway as well, seeing as she us an expert in alternate self-serving realities.

    You’d think of course that between her barrister husband and her 3 years living in rolled up newspapers while backpacking would give her enough knowledge about the world of the low income semi-dependents to pull of contextual deceits much, much better.

  15. keerti

    I can just imagine it. At a dinner for upcoming lawyers, one declares, “I’m about to become a partner in the firm. Meet my wife she debeaks chickens at the local hatchery. She’s hoping to be moved to the delegging dept very soon.”

  16. Kaye Lee

    “It’s just possible that Michaelia Cash is the worst minister for women Australia has had.”

    http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/news-and-views/opinion/is-michaelia-cash-a-worse-minister-for-women-than-tony-abbott-20161026-gsbhlm.html

    ” Is Michaelia Cash Australia’s worst ever employment minister?”

    https://www.crikey.com.au/2017/03/09/while-michaelia-cash-buys-investment-properties-employment-in-australia-has-tanked/

    “IN AN INTERVIEW described by observers as both “excruciating” and “a trainwreck”, Federal Employment Minister Senator Michaelia Crash … sorry … Cash, got herself into a dreadful tangle on Monday (22/8/16) trying to explain the need for new laws to regulate Victorian firefighters.”

    https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/crash-investigation-michaelia-crashs-fiery-car-wreck-interview,9387

  17. David A Lymn

    I easily imagine Cash at private girls school and a prefect. At sports day, she would be in front of the house ” Come on girls, we can win this. Let’s lift the roof with our war cry. Hopalong, Hopalong HI,Hi HI……..”. Or in chapel, the loudest voice singing “Jerusalem”.

  18. Kyran

    “low income workers are often found in high income households”.
    You are all being terribly unkind. This is nothing more than inescapable fact. The ‘low income workers’ are frequently found in ‘high income households’. That’s a fact. They may be the cleaner, the cook, the gardener, the chauffeur, the nanny, whatever.
    See? Trickle down. We don’t need to keep statistics about the hired help. Unnecessary red tape. It’s not like we need to pay them a lot. They should be grateful they have a job.
    Good pick up, Mr Lord, and commenters. Take care

  19. Jack Straw

    This is called Post Truth or alternative facts.

  20. Jaquix

    Mitchell was brilliant – he was using whats known as the “broken record technique”. That is, repeat the same statement, without being drawn into side issses (not that Cash put any forward). Until youve worn them down, to get an answer. Ive used it myself and its fascinating how well it works. More interviewers should do it, not slide off to the next question on their list.

  21. Roscoe

    so they do not want to give a pay rise to 200,000 workers out of how many million workers?

  22. Peter F

    Honestly, how could someone who buys ( or at least can fund the purchase of) two investment properties to the value of $2.2M within a six month period POSSIBLY understand anything about the basic wage?

  23. kristapet

    It seems circumlocution and absent figures, or, scant detail, is the same old Liberal technique, in obfuscation.
    Don’t they know the devil is in the detail!
    I think the broken record technique reveals a wealth of information about the status quo of the Liberal Party

  24. roma guerin

    I hope Leigh Sales listens to this tape and learns where she is going wrong. I do so miss Kerry O’Brien. As for Ms Cash, she makes me want to slash my wrists. Where the hell did they find her at pre-selection time?

  25. Alan Baird

    We all know that the most efficient way to put money into the pockets of the lowly-paid is to put an enormous amount of money into the pockets of the highly paid … We all know that we must continue to be paid less than inflation. That way we end up exactly where we are now. Thank christ Sally McManus (ACTU) has come out unambiguously and nailed so many issues that have led to the present “pretty pass”. I found myself concentrating on her speech to the exclusion of everything. Find it on ABC National Press Club on, eg. Google. If the McManus train of thought emanated from the ALP (and they then put PLANS into policy) then Turnbull would be in for a drubbing. If Shorten gets cold feet dump him and dragoon Sally in. Even Paul Keating said that she was on the ball, and that’s quite a stretch for him. Someone actually posed a question about the Hawke/Keating’s fingerprints being all over the early imlementation of neo-con economics. That’s why it was so impressive that Keating actually came out and supported what she said. She also answered a snide question from some “Australian” functionary (the paper for LOMBARDS: Lots Of Money But A Real Dickhead) with despatch and sounded in control at all times. I would look forward to this speech being the beginning of an inversion of the current wages pyramid. A letter in today’s SMH says society nowadays is becoming a “feudal” one and I’ve no wish to join an Australian “serf” club.

  26. Jack Straw

    Jaquix. Mitchell just did a Mitchell. He doesn’t do brilliant.He ended the last few minutes of the interview allowing Cash to get stuck into Sally McManus. Mitchell has never done a decent interview all his life.He is the nullify-er he is the sausage factory Interviewer.Mitchell just bores the at pants off everyone in Melbourne.he is mediocrity personifide. Nothing happens apart from making people start popping pills and start drinking early after they have heard his show.

  27. Terry2

    So senator Cash is saying that if you are a low paid worker the chances are that you don’t live in your own home – that figures – and probably you are living with your mum and dad – OK so far – and that being the case you don’t need an increase in the minimum wage but you do need a cut in penalty rates with no trade-off because you can bludge off mum and dad – hang on Michaelia you’ve lost me there.

    Turning now to Turnbull :

    “Mr Turnbull said an element of modern awards was that any changes would not reduce the take-home pay of workers.

    One option was to have the commission make a take-home pay order that whittles back penalty rates at the same time as annual minimum wage increases are awarded.

    “The employee’s overall pay packet increases and offsets the phased-in reduction in penalty rates,” Mr Turnbull said.

    “The Fair Work Commission is very conscious of the need to protect low-paid workers. So are we. But the important thing is they have both the intent and the tools to ensure the changes are phased in so workers are, as far as possible, not worse off in terms of this transition.”

    So Mr Turnbull is in favour of take-home pay for workers not being impacted by cuts in penalty rated – Good !

    But then we are told :

    “In its long-awaited response to the commission’s February decision to cut penalty rates for workers in the hospitality, fast food, retail and pharmacy sectors, the government has made no suggestion on how the pay packets of those affected can be protected.”

    These blokes are spinning themselves into oblivion !

  28. Harquebus

    Setting a maximum annual income would make more sense.

    “just eight men, from Bill Gates to Michael Bloomberg, owning as much wealth as 3.6 billion people”
    “Inequality is trapping hundreds of millions in poverty; it is fracturing our societies and undermining democracy.”
    https://dailyinequality.com/2017/03/22/oxfam-says-8-men-as-rich-as-half-the-world/

    “The rich don`t give a f*ck about you… they want it all and they are gonna get it!” — George Carlin

    No argument from me on any comment so far on this page.

    Cheers.

  29. Carmel cappelli

    We the people of Australia should also be able to put our submissions in when politicians wages are being reviewed!! Based on what they have done to the rest of us they should get a pay cut!!!

  30. Jack Straw

    No argument from me on any comment so far on this page

    So happy to get your approval Harquebus

  31. metadatalata

    A better course for humanity would be to move away from a monetary system and the typical bank financing model and transition to a collective society where everyone gets a chance to contribute with the skills they have and has a base standard of living which provides for a enjoyable life. The current societal structure has no future as technology continues to make traditional jobs redundant. It is about time we replaced politicians with people who can be better trusted to move our society in a positive direction rather than be a large part of the growing problem.

  32. John

    I’m with you Metadatalata!

  33. helvityni

    roma guerin, you are not the only one who misses Kerry O’Brien…

    Alan Baird, good of Keating to say nice things of Sally, she is pretty impressive, yet the Oz had some untrue things to say about her, they had to take their words back…

  34. Judith W

    People earning $17.70 per hour who live in high income households should give up their jobs to someone without a job IMHO

  35. iggy648

    How many people on the Fair Work Commission are earning the minimum wage?

  36. smiffs2014

    Send in the clowns. Oh…don’t worry…they’re here!!

  37. Ill fares the land

    It actually makes no difference what your personal domestic circumstances are. By Cash’s perverted and utterly bizarre logic, a professional woman married to a wealthy professional man should receive a lower salary, because she doesn’t need the money. As another example, the rather corpulent John Symons doesn’t need any more money, given he has enough to spend $75 million on a private yacht (although I imagine the annual upkeep and mooring fees alone are more that a boatload of cheap foreign workers doing the servant roles on his yacht will earn in a year once it is launched). The holes in the conservative arguments are sufficiently wide to sail Symon’s yacht through.

    Apparently, a worker on a low income already deserves less, but at the other end of the scale, Symon’s company deserves a monumental tax cut – this will, allegedly encourage him to invest and create jobs. Well, clearly the promise of tax cuts had that effect – unfortunately the investment was made in another country (Holland I think) where his yacht is being built – not Australia.

    This absurdity has surely got to stop – can we cope with this kind of “fact-free” crap spouted by nongs like Cash until the next election and then will we do the smart thing and vote these twerps out. Sure, Labor might not give us a gooey warm glow, but why would anyone reward the LNP fools with yet another go. They are surely as big a bunch of corrupt, lying numpties as this country has ever seen.

    In fact, this is not the first time that Cash has been caught out – she was caught out in a now well known interview over the FWC decision in Victoria (in a situation I might add where the LNP was more than happy to override the umpire’s decision – something that gets little media attention). On that occasion, as now, she was unable to give any specifics at all about Don the “fourfourter” and how he might be adversely affected by the FWC’s direction in favour of the union.

    I am guessing that so utterly arrogant and convinced of her personal genius, she is convinced she doesn’t need any facts – her impassioned utterances are so compelling and powerful that they are all she needs. God I love it when interviewers rip her to shreds and are able to turn her failings against her in a very public forum.

  38. Florence nee Fedup

    I get the feeling that this mob believe all workers should get down on their knees, thanking employers for giving them jobs. After all the likes of Cash see a job as best form of welfare.

    It follows business believes they own the whole pie, that workers have no right to a share.

  39. olddavey

    This is the same as saying that if you live in a rich household you should work for nothing so that your employer can then hire someone from a low income family who needs a job (in the LNP’s eyes to support their gambling or ice addiction, because that’s what low income earners work for), or pocket the savings.
    I despair for our society every time I am confronted by any “policies” of this “government”

  40. olddavey

    Cash changed her name by deed poll, she had the “r” removed.
    Still a disaster!

  41. 245179

    everywhere i look, federal or state, the growing numbers of inept self serving individuals alarms me. Career politics is constraining vision. Big ticket items that need action, just get shelved. I’ve witnessed a long minerals / gas boom, i see very little that has flowed to bettering australia. I see mega funds transferred overseas, i see loop holes allowing zero tax payments on these funds, i see average joe blo getting more and more shafted, i see rebellion.

  42. Wun Farlung

    200 000 on minimum wage
    I wonder how many thousands working cash in hand well below minimum wage?
    I just listened to this bird brain trying unconvicingly to defend the indefensible and was waiting for her to talk about Denise the cleaner with the rich husband and how Denise thought cutting her penalty rates and not getting a lift in her minimum wage was a great idea

  43. Phil

    ‘Low paid workers are often found in high income houses’ – bloody hell – the connotations of such a stupidly constructed statement by a government minister.

    Of course its intentionally loaded to diminish the degrading implications for peoples lives from the unliveable rate of pay for the lowest paid in our fracturing society. Cash knew this and Mitchell knew it too.

    Cash’s ineptitude and gross ignorance has added a few more nails to the LNP electoral coffin.

    By contrast – Sally McManus yesterday took the podium at the NPC and showed Australia how to play the ‘game’ with power – she spoke of facts, gave relevant examples, and no bullshit. Her controlled demeanour in answering journo’s questions was wonderful to watch – no waffling – no ego rising to the bait.

    She answered many questions by directing the questioner back to what she had said in her speech thus avoiding repetition and time wasting which is the hallmark of the obfuscating politician. She gave answers concisely and then stopped – the sudden silence stunned many but it meant her answer resonated in the momentary silence before the MC realised she had finished and called for another question. This surprised those accustomed to the waffle and tripe that they usually cop from political egos.

    McManus is speaking the language of resistance and hope for ordinary people and the neoliberal class is more than little worried. The Murdoch mud machine has been hard at work for the past few weeks digging for dirt on McManus but ended up with mud in its own ugly face.

  44. Keitha Granville

    It’s about time we had a basic IQ test for MPs. Before they enter the race. And to take a Ministry eg Employment, they will need to live on unemployment benefits for at least 3 months unless they have previous experience. Same for all the other ministries -experience necessary.
    It beggars belief that they can decide to take more from the bottom of the pile to give more to the top .
    Please, people, remember all this and vote them out.

  45. Henry Rodrigues

    The quality of the ministers in Turdball’s government reveals what a useless stupid lineup of f^*kwits this country is cursed with. Can anyone really claim that this person is capable of formulating a simple coherent sentence when making a submission on any subject leave alone one as sensitive as a wages claim. Turdball should go hang himself from the nearest tree, if he had any shame at all. This is after all, his choice of minister.

  46. Michael

    On what basis was she preselected, how big was the field, what was the vote count?

    Where could the responsibility possibly lie?

  47. Kaye Lee

    Her father George was a WA pollie from 1984 to 2009.

  48. Zathras

    Ill fares the land –
    Chances are John Symons won’t personally own that $75million yacht.

    It’s probably the property of a holding company or some other contrived accounting mechanism to keep it safe in case he’s ever personally sued.

    It also means that it’s purchase was indirectly subsidised by taxpayers as some sort of corporate expense (entertainment of clients?) and will be a handy ongoing depreciation tax liability against future company profits.

    That’s where those corporate tax cuts would go, unlike a meagre wage rise for workers which would go straight into the local economy where it would do some good for everybody.

    However if you ever point this out they all howl “class warfare” or “the politics of envy”.

    Maybe he could sail it to the Cayman Islands where he could check on Malcolm’s personal tax-avoiding stash.

  49. ace Jones

    Cash is a turd on legs

  50. Vincent Burke

    Cash is as dumb as Hanson, as bogan cultured as Lambie and as gutless as Mal Tremble….and WE employ her! ………I hope her high income is supporting a low paid worker somewhere.

  51. silkworm

    ‘Sky News has sacked Mark Latham after he labelled a Sydney schoolboy “gay” because he appeared in a pro-feminism video….

    His dismissal comes hot off the heels of Kristina Keneally’s defamation allegations against him, which were closely followed by similar charges laid by Wendy Harmer this week.

    The one-time prime ministerial candidate and Trump fan ripped into Harmer on his Sky News show Outsiders on Sunday, calling the media personality a “proven commercial failure” and a “female with a disability” who could only get a job at the “sheltered workshop” of the ABC.

    The comments followed Sky stablemate Kristina Keneally’s formal complaint against Latham, who referred to former NSW premier Kristina Keneally, among other things, as a “yankee sheila” who was a “protégé of Eddie Obeid”.’

    http://honey.nine.com.au/2017/03/28/14/56/wendy-harmer-threatens-defamation-action-over-mark-latham-commercial-failure-comments

  52. Möbius Ecko

    Phil. ‘Low paid workers are often found in high income houses’ – bloody hell – the connotations of such a stupidly constructed statement by a government minister.

    Though she stated that, it was more or less stated in the government’s submission to the Fair Work Commission as to why the minimum wage should only be increased by the smallest amount, less than CPI.

    Scott Morrison also attempted to defend that premise in their submission, and was also caught out in not being able to specify what percentage of minimum pay workers were in higher income homes.

    What it does show is the lengths this government will go to for employers at the expense of employees to come up with a nonsense such as this in an attempt to justify what amounts to a pay cut for the lowest paid workers.

  53. Kaye Lee

    Politicians base pay rises

    Since 1996, the base salary has increased by the following (in actual dollars):

    7 March 1996—1.6 per cent
    17 October 1996—1.2 per cent
    7 December 1999—4.45 per cent, the first stage of a 9.95 per cent two-stage increase
    1 July 2000—5.5 per cent, the second stage of the 9.95 per cent increase
    1 July 2000—2.2 per cent by virtue of an adjustment to the PEO Classification Structure
    1 July 2001—3.9 per cent
    1 July 2002—3.35 per cent
    1 July 2003—4 per cent
    1 July 2004—3.9 per cent
    1 July 2005—4.1 per cent and
    1 July 2006—7.01 per cent
    1 July 2007—6.8 per cent
    1 October 2009—3.1 per cent
    1 August 2010—3.8 per cent
    1 July 2011—3.6 per cent
    15 March 2012—31.3 per cent
    1 July 2012—3.0 per cent
    1 July 2013—2.4 per cent
    1 July 2014—0 per cent
    1 January 2016—2.0 per cent

  54. Jane

    Interestingly silkworm he’s loves playing the victim also.

  55. Kaye Lee

    A study last year by social researchers McCrindle, based on official statistics, found that the top 20 per cent of households earn half the total income in the economy and own more than 60 per cent of the wealth, while the lowest 20 per cent get 4 per cent of the income and own less than 1 per cent of the wealth.

    Another policy research organisation, the Australia Institute, found that of the $170 billion in tax cuts in the past decade, the top 10 per cent of income earners garnered as much as the bottom 80 per cent.

  56. Michael

    And Vincent Burke March 31, 2017 at 12:38 pm, can’t let this flow by without quote from Wikipedia:

    “Cash graduated from Curtin University in 1990 with a Bachelor of Arts with a triple major in public relations, politics, and journalism.

    She also holds an Honours Degree in Law from the University of London and a Graduate Diploma in Legal Practice from the University of Western Australia.”

    John Lord (love your writing), if one was not an AIMN’er – one would never know.

    A classic and literal case of born to rule – a perfect LNP model/standard/measure/breeding and Australia’s golden find and the mantra? = “ruling is not working” personified – the LNP way!!

    I guess we missed out – ruling is for Michaelia.

    Vincent, John – time for a beer after work?

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