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Day to Day Politics: Lies, lies, lies from Abbott to Turnbull.

Friday 17 February 2017

1 When asked what a government’s first duty is most would say that it is to look after the most vulnerable of its citizens. Others might say it’s the protection of all its citizens.

Both are obvious answers but in the broader consideration doesn’t the government have a duty of care to all the citizens of Australia? The young, the old and those not yet considered. Even if it’s not indelibly written into the statutes or the constitution.

This is on my mind when I read the confession of former Prime Minister Mr Abbott’s then chief of staff, Peta Credlin, now a commentator on Sky, that the Coalition’s campaign against a carbon price was entirely political.

The reason I use the word confession, rather than admission for example, is that in this instance the word best illustrates the fact that Abbott and his government, purely for political purposes, deliberately chose to ignore the best scientific advice on the subject of Climate Change. In doing so they also ignored their duty of care to all Australians and the yet to be born. They should really be found guilty of a crime against humanity.

Now, if hospital staff deliberately ignored the best available science in the treatment of a patient, they would face multiple law suites.

”That was brutal retail politics and it took Abbott six months to cut through and when he did cut through Gillard was gone,” Ms Credlin told Sky News on Sunday.

Now I’m sure that this revelation doesn’t come as any surprise to the reader. We all thought that was the case. But for a former Chief of Staff to confess that they created a deliberate scare campaign contrary to the best scientific advice in the world, should condemn Abbott and his entire party for what it is. And it should be of concern to every Australian.

Not content with lying about the benefits of an emissions’ trading scheme, they have all of a sudden invented power supply as a political scapegoat targeted at Labor when it is, in fact, their responsibility.

Adam Morten in the SMH said.

”The Turnbull government has been sitting on advice that an emissions intensity scheme – the carbon policy it put on the table only to rule out just 36 hours later – would save households and businesses up to $15 billion in electricity bills over a decade.

While Malcolm Turnbull has rejected this sort of scheme by claiming it would push up prices, analysis in an Australian Electricity Market Commission report handed to the government months ago finds it would actually cost consumers far less than other approaches, including doing nothing.”

Then prior to Christmas a government discussion paper recommending a price mechanism for carbon emissions intensity was quickly given the boot from the political agenda at the insistence of Abbott supporters within the Coalition party room.

Again they have rejected the best available advice based on ideology alone. What a way to conduct government. Lies, lies, lies, from Abbott to Turnbull. There should be a way in which the people can sue members of parliament, indeed the party itself, responsible for making extreme policy decisions counter to categorical scientific, peer-reviewed, evidence.

An observation.

”Science has made in my lifetime, the most staggering achievements and they are embraced, recognised and enjoyed by all sections of society. The only areas that I can think of where science is questioned is in the religious fever of climate change doubters, conservative politics and unconventional religious belief.”

We need some avenue by which the members of parliament who oppose vital legislation such as Climate Policy be given the opportunity to present contrary evidence. The public has the right to, not only know who they are, but also what evidence they have.

The fact that we have a Prime Minister who once championed a tax on carbon and now in order to keep his job is willing to put in jeopardy the future of our children makes him and his government criminals. Or if there were a law around deliberate policy misadventure, they certainly would be.

In a speech in 2011 Malcolm Turnbull said this.

“It is undoubtedly correct that there has been a very effective campaign against the science of climate change by those opposed to taking action to cut emissions, mainly because it does not suit their own financial interests, and this has played into the carbon tax debate,” he said.

“Normally, in our consideration of scientific issues, we rely on expert advice [and] agencies like CSIRO or the Australian Academy of Science, are listened to with respect.

“Yet on this issue there appears to be a licence to reject our best scientists both here and abroad and rely instead on much less reliable views.

“So in the storm of this debate about carbon tax, direct action and what the right approach to climate change should be, do not fall into the trap of abandoning the science.”

Greg Jericho put it this way in the Guardian.

”The government has clearly decided that electricity prices is its key message for the next three years – and as a result the prime minister has ensured the policy debate will be biased towards climate change denial and will continue to treat Australians as idiots.”

John Menadue said this.

‘The rest of Australia’s leaders, in particular the CEOs of our largest companies, should declare now that enough is enough, and pull these idiots into line.

Let’s be clear, the Coalition and particularly the Liberal Party and Malcolm Turnbull are responsible for the current mess and impasse on electricity prices and reliability and supply. This is the result of years of policy and political failure. We are now seeing the dreadful consequences.”

2. Peter Dutton was the only MP not in attendance when Kevin Rudd made his now historic ‘’Apology’’ speech. On Tuesday he chose not to sit with the front bench when his leader gave an update on the Bridging the Gap policy. You be the judge.

An observation.

”Commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence, and scientific methods of inquiry, rather than faith and mysticism, is the best way of providing solutions to human problems”

3. The damage that can be done by false news. You might recall at the height of the immigration influx into European countries, there was a report of immigrants assaulting women on New Year’s Eve in Frankfurt, Germany. Well it has now been exposed as “baseless” after investigation by police.

The publication, Bild, that originally printed the story has retracted and has apologised for what it said was a “false report”, which was based on the now disputed claims of a pub owner and some of their staff.

What damage they do.

4. Can I remind you that the next Budget is due to be presented in May, but a few weeks away? It’s probably a good time to remind the Government that they are actually in charge. Not Labor! How a party who has only governed for six of the last 20 years can be blamed for so much, is an ongoing fascination.

5 I have to say that the performance of Jacqui Lambie in trying to belittle Yassmin Abdel-Magied over sharia law was, to say the least, unpleasant. The best I can say is that one seemed to know what Sharia law is and the other didn’t.

An observation.

”If you have a point of view, feel free to express it. However, do so with civility. Then your point of view is laced with a degree of dignity.”

On this day in 2016 I wrote.

”Malcolm Turnbull still has a handsome lead over Bill Shorten in the preferred Prime Minister stakes but yesterday’s Fairfax-Ipsos showed a growing disquiet about his Governments performance. Opinion polls, especially so far out from an election, are but a guide to people’s thinking and not an indication of how they might vote. Trends are what we look for and recent polling suggests one is taking shape.

Crickey’s Poll Bludger says.

‘The latest Poll is another weaker result for the Coalition, whose two-party lead of 52-48 compares with 56-44 at the previous such poll in mid-November. On the primary vote, the Coalition is down four points to 44%, Labor is up three to 32% and the Greens are up two to 15%. Malcolm Turnbull takes a solid hit on his still very strong personal ratings, with approval down seven to 62% and disapproval up eight to 24%. Bill Shorten is little changed on 30% approval (up one) and 55% disapproval (down two), and his deficit on preferred prime minister has narrowed slightly, from 69-18 to 64-19. The poll was conducted Thursday to Saturday from a sample of 1403.”

Who said this?

”It is an absolute principle of democracy that governments should not and must not say one thing before an election and do the opposite afterwards. Nothing could be more calculated to bring our democracy into disrepute and alienate the citizenry of Australia from their government than if governments were to establish by precedent that they could say one thing before an election and do the opposite afterwards.”

My thought for the day.

”I am often staggered with the vigour American atheists use to confront religion. However when one examines the conduct of religious institutions in that country I cannot say I am the least surprised”

 254 total views,  2 views today


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  1. John Skene

    I have to say that the performance of Jacqui Lambie in trying to belittle Yassmin Abdel-Magied over sharia law was to say the least unpleasant. The best I can say is that one seemed to know what Sharia law is and the other didn’t.

    So Jackie and a lot of other people don’t want Sharia law brought into Australia, so why don’t they campaign and get rid of Cannon Law as well.

    Sharia Law is the law that Muslin live by obeying the law of the land they live in, respected other people etc. Cannon Law is the law that catholics live by not using contraception no sex before marriage etc

    If it good enough for the goose it is good enough for the gander

  2. Terry2

    This stubborn ideology was on display yesterday as the Prime Minister again refuses to address the excesses of negative gearing and capital gains tax concessions and give first home buyers a level playing field when competing with property investors who, he frustratingly insists are made up of hard working Australians consisting of nurses school teachers, firemen, police officers and other battlers.

    This government refuses to answer or address the one fundamental question of why property investors are given a taxpayer funded edge over first home buyers.

  3. Harquebus

    I see that Shorten and his cohorts are having difficulty defining their RET. I am sure that if they try long and hard enough that, they will come up with a policy that they think will defy the laws of physics. It’s what they do.

  4. helvityni

    Now that our happiest PM (he did say that) has turned into a Mongrel Malcolm, I don’t know what to believe: he certainly does not seem to be a happy PM anymore…

    His helpers are laughing a lot, but somehow they don’t come across to me very happy either…it’s kind of nasty laughter….

  5. helvityni

    Haydon Cooper of 7.30 interviewed some men who know their coal; they both smiled when he asked them about Mal and Scottie’s CLEAN coal..

  6. havanaliedown

    Is Mongrel Malcolm the New Trump? How embarrassing for the nitwits who were longing for him to become PM.

  7. jagman48

    Harquebus what has that comment got to do with coalition lies. Nothing which is typical of your contributions.

  8. Harquebus

    Jus’ sayin’. Labor’s ignorance is just as important as the Coalition’s lies. Neither understands the problem nor offers us any viable solution.

  9. wam

    dear Lord,
    The other day, in the new daily, quentom dempster wrote about the rabbott’s attack on gillard as a prime cause of high electricity costs.

    The hackett hype shows how the media still gets so excited by poppies falling. The rabbott’s attacks on juliar/carbon tax were all fake but how effective? Bill needs to use this hype with some ‘real’ fake news???

    Who “It is an absolute principle of democracy that governments should not and must not say one thing before an election and …” he was absolutely honest with a fake truth about gillard and wow how effective. Why? Because gillard was unable to maintain the not tax but price in her own colleagues (for a very brief period the ABC use price) and didn’t exploit the rabbott’s REAL CARBON TAX..

    john skene the application of sharia is dependent on the interpretation of culture by the men the difference between jacqui and yassmin was the practice and the theory.
    Do you doubt anything that lambe or abdel said could be found in a muslim community?
    Your reference to canon law shows why the muslim sharia/terror connection is not discussed from a religious point because the top eschelon of politics are also religiously indoctrinated and frightened of challenging beliefs.

  10. Kaye Lee

    George Christensen wrote a letter giving an ultimatum: the Prime Minister must announce a mandatory code of conduct for the sugar industry by March 1, with penalties, or he would no longer guarantee his support for the government.

    He hasn’t delivered the letter yet but may do so if his demands aren’t met

    “Mr Christensen has reportedly told close friends his plan was to move to the crossbench but seek permission from Barnaby Joyce to attend Nationals partyroom meetings.

    “This issue is the most important one to confront me in my six years in politics and that’s why I’m committed to doing whatever it takes to get an outcome,” he told News Corp.

    “If it takes ruffling a few feathers here, crossing the floor or going rogue to get an outcome, then you just have to do it.”

    Mr Christensen’s other frustrations include a push from moderate Liberal MPs for same-sex marriage, and the fact that he was not given a position in Cabinet.

    He has not ruled out sending the letter and resigning.”


    Would that be called blackmail?

    his father Ian Christensen has taken to social media to warn the talk was not just words.

    “My Dad and George’s Grandad, Tony Christensen, farmed the land (and) grew sugarcane for many decades … If (Prime Minister Malcolm) Turnbull and the others in Cabinet think this is (an) idle threat from George I suggest they have a quick rethink and come down on the Aussie farmers’ side.”

  11. Jack Straw

    Well; write an article about it Harquebus. Don’t hijack the debate.It’s attention seeking101. Remember your Einstein quote yesterday Einstein? about same thinking.You end up muddying the waters.

  12. Roswell

    It has blackmail written all over it, Kaye. A bit like his vote for me and I’ll donate money to save the turtles (or whatever it was).

  13. johnlord

    Kaye I heard a little of that on telly this am. His threats are almost a weekly event. None of them have the intestinal fortitude too practice what they preach. Watching Turnbull in question time one has to wonder its the same reasoned man who used to appear on Q&A

  14. Jaquix

    Malcolm Turnbull is an utter disgrace. Contrast his performance in office with the fine rhetoric of his “victory over Abbott” speech in 2015. Same old “say one thing, do another”. He’s worse than Abbott really, because he used to know better. Abbott was just a brawler, Turnbull becoming more like him every day. Witness him in QT this week.

  15. havanaliedown

    Turnbull has finally seen the light shone upon the reckless additional expense of RET. This is what will lose Labor the next election: Bill and Tanya (for she is likely to be rotated in before 2019) are happy to increase everybody’s power bill, but won’t say by how much, to no measurable effect on temperature.

    Personal attacks are unecessary.

  16. stephentardrew

    The sooner we make a distinction between, insight, creativity, imagination, love, truth, beauty and the dogma of religion the better. I find both sides intolerant yet the need to counter religion is much greater than the need to counter the facts of science. Problem is when the theocratic military industrial complex and corporate thieves get their hands on science they distort it to met their dystopian ends. What a minefield.

    Why can’t we let love, beauty, goodness, kindness, compassion and reciprocity stand alone as goals worthy of any citizen. Do unto others a good philosophical base while understanding the causal contributors to suffering and hardship absolutely necessary.

    No one should deny a persons right to have a sense of mystery, awe and wonder it is when those insights become dogma, absolutism and oppression that the trouble starts.

  17. John Lord

    Watching Turnbull this week it’s hard to imagine it’s the same man of reason and moderation who so deftly spoke on Q&A .

  18. silkworm

    “Abbott was just a brawler, Turnbull becoming more like him every day.”

    On Yahoo news this morning came the report that Trump, after his conversation with Turnbull regarding the refugees, expressed his admiration for Turnbull, saying that he was a brawler.

  19. helvityni

    …and Howard agrees with Hanson, Mal has morphed into a Tones clone, big boy Christensen needs Daddy’s help.

    I saw a picture of Howard in the Guardian, he looked like Menzies…

    What’s happening to Australia….?

  20. Jack Straw

    helvityni The Rot started in 1996 with Howard the great Manipulator. We have had 20 years of fear and loathing done in brilliant subterfuge.So great has this fear campaign worked.We are living in a 1956 zeitgeist.

  21. Kronomex

    Mal Function and his Choir of the Insane are now effectively being held hostage by George (Gorge?) Christensen. Pynebox is spouting as usual that things are alright and he will no doubt “fix it”. Crappott is setting himself up for a run at Mal in the near future and so things are snafu with the LNP.

  22. helvityni

    A very good article on Independent Australia by Don Donovan re Mal’s ‘nuanced’ coal !

    ‘Nuanced’ for crying out loud, one would think he’s talking about a vintage wine.

    Jack Straw, yes back to the Fifties and picket fences, maybe this nuanced coal is too avan-tgarde for that period… 🙂

  23. Richard Bull

    We need to remember that not all points of view are equal – for example was Hitler’s view of the Jews equal to Gandhi’s view of the, so called, untouchables? For me, Gandhi’s view, being more encompassing and holistic is much more worthy of consideration!!
    I also think that dictionaries should include ‘liar’ as a synonym for ‘politician’. So sick and tired of the opportunistic lying that goes on in politics on a daily basis.

  24. Kate Ahearne

    Thanks, John. Yassmin Abdel-Magied has put out of video on Sharia which has so far had 3 million views,

  25. silkworm

    Yassmin Abdel-Magied’s comments are informative and intelligent, which, unfortunately, are exactly the opposite of what will satisfy the bigots and the idiots.

  26. My say

    What hypocrisy,The Turnbull government has the hide to say that the Labor attack on medicare was a scare campaign,and wil jail any one who continues with the lies,can the Australian public lay charges against the Liberal party for all the lies they have told since being in power

  27. Lord John

    John Lord:

    Watching Turnbull this week it’s hard to imagine it’s the same man of reason and moderation who so deftly spoke on Q&A .

    Jawaharlal Nehru once said “What we really are matters more than what other people think of us”.

    “The latest Turnbull is who he really is”.

  28. Kate Ahearne

    About Medicare. I just made an appointment with my optometrist. My last visit was free – fully bulk-billed. The next one will cost me $10. Not much in itself, perhaps, but pensioners have lots of these sorts of visits for all sorts of medical reasons, and those dollars add up. And you wouldn’t want to be diabetic. The gutting of Medicare is already well underway.

  29. havanaliedown

    I guess the Silver-tongued millionaire seduced you. Lord John. Did you perchance change your vote to Liberal n 2016? You’d be the only one.

  30. Lord John

    havanaliedown ? No not I.

  31. guest


    you obviously disapprove of RET. Perhaps you would prefer renewable energy with no target – just get on with it.

    Perhaps you prefer no renewable energy, just plain old “clean” coal, just as Turnbull wants. You know, no target for that idea, just get on with it until the coal runs out.

    But it is not as simple as that, is it? The fact is the demand for coal, no matter how “clean”, is running out. And Turnbull has said nothing about the cost of “stranded assets”.

    Nor has he said anything about the cost of cooking the planet. In other words, the cost of increasing the temperature as more coal is burnt.

    As for increasing the power bill, that seems to be happening everywhere, and the problem seems to lie with the privatisation of the power supply. The suppliers are guaranteed profits and they are able to play the game of choosing when supplying the energy is most profitable. The profits go overseas.The consumer is being dudded.

    And I notice that states with coal-fired generators also have outages. Do other countries have outages blamed on renewables or is it the truth that a weather event caused the problem in SA and other problems arose in Oz from human error such as not turning on the back-up power?

    It seems that Turnbull is not as clever as you suggest. He has his renewable story all in a mess. Is he mistaken – or lying?

    And I see that Turnbull did not do so well in the election and is just hanging on by a thin thread. Labor’s policies clearly outshine Turnbull’s. Will his tin can NBN be saleble? What happened to the census software? What happened with the Centrelink debt collection? How are the polls going?

    Bill Shorten is safe and your prediction about a Tanya “rotation” is redundant.

  32. jim

    toni abbot….. “COAL IS GOOD FOR HUMANITY” err…….umm…..you bet you are……..wink. this is why we must give to our mining corporations with a reward of $billions……err 49 Billions give our take,…. depending on how much we can……ahh…..work with them, now….now….ahh….now…it’s all crystal clear. “look some of our mining’s top CEOs are doing it tough hell, their third yacht…. desperately needs a renovation” mrabbit said, ‘ Well besides the $$ TEN OF BILLION DOLLARS we already give to “our” fossil fuel b,b,….bud…. businesses…. and….and…. we desperately must forward these brand new tax cuts of another 49 BILLIONS CASH to our Fossil Fuel Friends it’s just common…sense”. mrabbit said.
    “LOOK i didn’t want to say this but…..but..Labor don’t care one…..one..iota about our humanity or the Liberal parties humanity. and…..and..we certainly are an humanity.” mrabbit said.

    Gillard lied about the carbon tax now look where that got us.

  33. wam

    Dear kate ahearn: you are right about medicare but up shit creek with sharia or any of the big 3 religion’s attitude to women.

    I am diabetic and the podiatrist I have been going to four times a year since 2008 bulk billed till the wed before when the election the practice decided not to bulk bill but to charge full $69 and I would have to go to centrelink for a refund luckily I found a family practice who still bulk bill it is worse at the doctors where if my dr is not there it costs $85 up front??? This is my fate should the young doctor leave the north for southern climes.
    Are these measures warranted? The day the new AMA president was elected, he said ‘there is no overcrowding by pensioners or welfare recipients at hospitals, there is little over servicing by GPs and with a small increase in the levy there would be no need for cuts to health. One can only conclude this has nothing to do with economics.

    Sharia by yassmin is hype and indoctrinated belief. Wonder what she thinks of the pictures of women in iean and afghanistan in the 70s?
    try this

    ‘And in a four-year investigation of British sharia councils, human rights activist Elham Manea “found clerics that ignored marital rape, condoned wife beating, and believed girls of 12 or 13 were old enough to marry,” the Independent reports’

    try aayam hirsi vs linda sarsour

    try ortrhodox divorce

    try paisley on the god of love

    Few would back theory over practice in religion. I don’t, do you????

    why is a hijab modest?
    She might have sweet lips
    Why not a niqab?
    She might have ‘bette davis eyes.
    Why not a burqa?

  34. Kyran

    We can always look on the bright side. ABC Fact Check is back. From the commentary, the need to check the facts is important to many people.
    “The proliferation of fact check sites in the US and Europe, and the increased public engagement with and reliance on fact checking outlets, suggests a growing public appetite for accurate information.”
    “Independent fact checking sites such as FactCheck.org and Politfact are finding fundraising less of a problem.”

    Maybe, just maybe, these muppets will not only be held to exposure, but to account.
    Thank you, Mr Lord, and commenters. Take care

  35. Kate Ahearne

    wam, I’m not sure what you mean about me being ‘up shit creek with sharia or any of the big 3 religion’s attitude to women’. I mentioned the Abdel-Magied video because she was a fairly hot topic on another thread yesterday, and I thought some people might be interested. I’m not a fan myself, and I didn’t change my mind after watching the video.

  36. Michelle Roberts

    I was watching Sky News (don’t ask) when the Peta Credlin ‘confession’ occurred. Credlin actually said, ‘we all knew it wasn’t a carbon tax’. It was extraordinary and I can’t believe it isn’t being played on the nightly news for all the believers of the carbon tax LIE to see how intentionally they were misled. Why aren’t there consequences in the criminal courts for parliamentarians who intentionally lie and deceive the Australian public? The saddest part is the ETS was beginning to work.

  37. Keith


    The prospect of the Artic being ice free by around 2030 is highly likely. Since 1979 to 2016 sea ice volume have decreased by 75%, there are yearly variations but the trend is in the wrong direction. AS greater areas of Arctic Ocean become ice free; wave action becomes stronger through a greater fetch; something people who go out in boats would readily understand. Storm action creates upwelling of warm water causing sea ice to be attacked from below. Snow and ice provide an air conditioner for Earth which has the effect of maintaining a climate we can readily survive in; no Arctic sea ice is a scary proposition.

    The LNP are completely reckless; when boiled down, they do not have a climate policy. Labor provides slightly better policies Federally, though Queensland Labor are no better than the COALition in relation to new coal mine.
    Clean coal is a joke; the technology is expensive and does not provide outcomes needed, depending on source there is a 17% to 40% improvement in emissions depending on the source and financial resources utilised.

    Renewable energy is only part of the answer to reducing emissions. If you believe that greenhouse gas emissions are not a major issue, I suggest you are not reading anything that has a science content. We need greenhouse gases in the right proportion to survive; the proportions are going in the wrong direction.

  38. Harquebus

    Don’t bother following John Ward’s link. It is just more hyperboblurb and independantaustralia does not allow dissenting comments.
    Very disappointing. I thought that John Ward was better than that.

  39. Kate Ahearne

    Harquebus, Have you actually looked at Independent Australia’s comments? Plenty of dissenting comments. They disappeared one or more of yours? No surprise there, if you were as offensive as you so often are here.

  40. Harquebus

    Kate Ahearne
    Yes and no offense at all included. Just some facts which, he and his ilk continue to refuse to consider.
    I thought that John Ward was okay but, now I realize that he is just another bullshitter who silences disagreement.
    In my opinion, you can’t get much lower.

  41. Kate Ahearne

    Harquebus, I’m having some difficulty decoding. Are you trying to say that Independent Australia has disappeared one or more of your comments? Have you been barred? Blackbanned?

  42. Harquebus

    Kate Ahearne
    Comment deleted.
    Independent Australia and John Ward are now, in my view, part of the problem and I will now be going out of my way to criticize both.

  43. Kate Ahearne

    Harquebus, Thanks for your clarification. Was it just the one comment that was deleted? Is that what you’re saying?

  44. Harquebus

    Kate Ahearne
    Yes. If John Lord and theAIMN will allow me, I will post what was deleted here for you.
    Subject: Renewable energy.

  45. Kate Ahearne

    Harquebus. Yes, i think that would be a good idea. As you say, If AIMN also finds your post to be offensive in some way, they will delete it. I need to be away from my computer for a while now, A couple of hours at least, so I won’t be able to respond immediately.

  46. Roswell

    I don’t find any of Harquebus’s comments offensive. Some might, and they probably have their own reasons to. But I don’t think he deliberately intends to offend people.

    Mind you, I have been annoyed with him at times, but never offended.

    I’ll go out on a limb here, but I think he means well.

  47. Ella Miller

    Mr. Lord, again, a very good look at lies.
    Who can remember Tony Abbott talking about ;
    non core promises
    and core promises?
    I thought a promise was just THAT a promise.

    What a ‘tricky’ government we have when it resorts to the use of the omnibus bill to try to mislead the voting public.Pretending to do good but trying to hide the fact that it is at the expense of those who can least afford it.

    I would call such a bill a TROJAN HORSE.
    For those who don’t remember, the Greeks pretended to give a gift of a wooden horse to Troy. Inside the so called gift they hid members of the Greek army.Once inside the walls of Troy, and, under the cover of darkness , the Greeks crept out of the so called gift opened the gates of Troy.
    Letting the rest of the Greek army in and Troy was destroyed.

    So our government tries to use this TROJAN HORSE bill to undermine and destroy our social safety net.When all seems lost, they try blackmail (NDIS), then threaten a tax hike.

    Now, I do not have a problem with the tax review.
    BUT again being tricky instead of looking once more at the Henry Tax review….which by the way they PROMISED to do, they play politics.

    What a sad state our Nation is in when we elect a government who not only lie but believe that savings can only be made off the backs of those who have very little.

  48. Harquebus

    Thank you.
    I understand that I am stepping out of bounds by taking the liberty of posting my deleted response to John Ward’s article at Independent Australia posted here at theAIMN February 17, 2017 at 1:53 pm and will not be as annoyed as I am with him if it disappears.

    Kate Ahearne
    Here ’tis.

    Renewable energy is a lie.

    “there is not enough surplus energy left over after construction of the generators and the storage system to power our present civilization.
    The problem is analysed in an important paper by Weißbach et al.1 in terms of energy returned on energy invested, or EROEI – the ratio of the energy produced over the life of a power plant to the energy that was required to build it. It takes energy to make a power plant – to manufacture its components, mine the fuel, and so on. The power plant needs to make at least this much energy to break even. A break-even powerplant has an EROEI of 1. But such a plant would pointless, as there is no energy surplus to do the useful things we use energy for.
    There is a minimum EROEI, greater than 1, that is required for an energy source to be able to run society. An energy system must produce a surplus large enough to sustain things like food production, hospitals, and universities to train the engineers to build the plant, transport, construction, and all the elements of the civilization in which it is embedded.”
    The Catch-22 of Energy Storage

    “Models often limit their life cycle or EROI analysis to just the solar panels themselves, which represents only a third of the overall energy embodied in solar PV plants. These studies left out dozens of energy inputs, leading to overestimates of energy such as payback time of 1-2 years (Fthenakis), EROI 8.3 (Bankier), and EROI of 5.9 to 11.8 (Raugei et al).”
    “Solar has too many energy costs and dependencies on fossil fuels throughout the life cycle to produce much energy. It’s more of a fossil-fuel extender because PV can’t replicate itself, let alone provide energy beyond that to human society.”

    Tilting at Windmills, Spain’s disastrous attempt to replace fossil fuels with Solar PV, Part 1

    “Windmills are too dependent on oil, from mining and fabrication to delivery and maintenance and fail the test of “can they reproduce themselves with wind power?””
    “Not only would windmills have to generate enough power to reproduce themselves, but they have to make enough power to run civilization.”
    “If the energy costs of intermittency, back-up conventional plant, and grid connection were added to the “cost” of windfarms, the EROEI would be far lower than current EROEI studies show.”

    “Manufacturing wind turbines is a resource-intensive process. A typical wind turbine contains more than 8,000 different components, many of which are made from steel, cast iron, and concrete.
    One such component are magnets made from neodymium and dysprosium, rare earth minerals mined almost exclusively in China, which controls 95 percent of the world’s supply of rare earth minerals.”
    “There’s not one step of the rare earth mining process that is not disastrous for the environment.”

    Big Wind’s Dirty Little Secret: Toxic Lakes and Radioactive Waste

    “This article seeks to explain why China’s environmental crisis is so horrific”
    “Reckless dumping of industrial waste is everywhere in China. But what caught the attention of The Washington Post was that the Luoyang Zhonggui High-Technology Company was a “green energy” company producing polysilicon destined for solar energy panels sold around the world.”
    “Polysilicon production produces about four tons of silicon tetrachloride liquid waste for every ton of polysilicon produced.”
    “China’s rise has come at a horrific social and environmental cost.”
    “for all the waste and pollution, most Chinese have gotten surprisingly little out of it all.”
    “most of the world’s light-industrial goods are made in China and they are, for the most part, deliberately designed to be unrepairable and mostly unrecyclable.”
    “High-speed trains are hugely expensive to build and operate and consume more than twice as much electricity to run as regular trains”

    “The country’s Environment Ministry says that 770,000 tons of solar panels will end up on the scrap heap in two decades, potentially releasing harmful chemicals.”

    “As the sediments accumulate in the reservoir, so the dam gradually loses its ability to store water for the purposes for which it was built. Every reservoir loses storage to sedimentation”



    “despite a string of optimistic choices resulting in low values of energy investments, the ERoEI is significantly below 1. In other words, an electrical supply system based on today’s PV technologies cannot be termed an energy source, but rather a non-sustainable energy sink or a non-sustainable NET ENERGY LOSS.”

    “Whenever somebody with a decent grasp of maths and physics looks into the idea of a fully renewables-powered civilised future for the human race with a reasonably open mind, they normally come to the conclusion that it simply isn’t feasible.”

    “new Green technologies designed to save humanity from CO2 may kill humanity through energy starvation”
    “If we used more energy to get the energy we need to survive then we will surely perish.”
    “ERoEI = energy gathered / energy invested” “net energy = ERoEI-1”
    “An inevitable consequence of this aspect of human nature commonly known as greed is that we have already used up the highest ERoEI fossil fuel resources and as time passes the ERoEI of new resources is steadily falling.”
    “The greatest risk to human society today is the notion that we can somehow replace high ERoEI fossil fuels with new renewable energies like solar PV and biofuels.”

    ERoEI for Beginners


    Just 16,000 Catenary Trucks Would Use All of California’s Electricity with only 2400 to 8300 Miles of Overhead Wires

    “Renewable energy sources are often advocated for their low CO2 emissions at point of use, but the overall product lifecycle is often forgotten about completely. In addition, many chemical products are needed in mining operations, leading to severe long-term pollution.”

    Is renewable energy really environmentally friendly?



  49. helvityni

    Rosswell, if there has been a slight misunderstanding between Harquebus and me, he has promptly apologised so I certainly do not ask for his banning.

  50. Roswell

    Harquebus, your comment was caught in moderation because of the large number of links with it.

  51. Roswell

    helvitnyi, we’ve all had our differences with Harquebus but I don’t see why he should be banned either.

  52. Harquebus

    helvityni and Roswell
    My thanks and appreciation to you both.

  53. Kate Ahearne

    Harquebus, If this is the post, I can’t see anything wrong about it, except as Roswell says, there are just too many links in it. It’s also very long. Perhaps it was off-topic? Actually, it’s remarkably free of the ‘tone’ that very often spoils your comments.

    Anyhow, I doubt that it would have been deleted because it disagreed with anyone’s opinion. They just don’t do that at IA.

  54. Harquebus

    Kate Ahearne
    The comments section is powered by Disqus. The comment was on topic and deliberately removed. By the way, I am now banned there. Robert Scribbler and Ugo Bardi, author of several books, including “The Limits to Growth Revisited” have also banned me for the same reason. They would rather continue with hoping than admit that they might have got it wrong. A lot of other faces are now realizing that, they too might end up with egg on their faces for pursuing false promises.

    Thank you for that and for providing the link. A lot has happened in the six months since that article was published, eh?
    What are they saying about Adelaide now? I hope that you took notice of what I said in my comment.


  55. Kate Ahearne

    Haquebus, Well, you wouldn’t have been banned for a comment like the one you have showed us here. However, your remarks are so often obnoxious in their tone that I’m not really surprised that other sites are banning you. My suggestion would be that you stop belittling, demeaning and hurling abuse at people who disagree with YOU. Why not give it a whirl? You never know.

  56. Harquebus

    Kate Ahearne
    Thank you for your advice and yes, it was my subsequent complaint about deleting the comment that got me banned.
    I try my best but, when I see deterioration in politics, environment, economics and society etc. accelerating and pedal to the metal on the cause, growth, I often get impatient. The time for action was decades ago and here we are still being polite and discussing it.
    I would love to discus this more with you but, I have imposed on John Lord’s page enough and look forward to picking this up and continuing at another time on a more appropriate page.
    I like your writing style and always read your comments.

  57. Roswell

    Harquebus, you might be interested to learn that one of my fellow admins set up Disqus on this site about a year ago. We had to drop it after five minutes as it removed every other comment ever made in this site. They returned – with much relief – when Disqus was uninstalled.

    Disqus has its benefits, the main one being that only commenters with a real email address can comment. Most of the trolls to this site come from overseas proxy servers, so our web developer is looking at ways to have them denied access, mainly for security reasons.

  58. Kate Ahearne

    Harquebus, We all suffer from exasperation sometimes, even anger. And I’m sure there’s no-one here who doesn’t have something or other that they wish they hadn’t said on these pages. In my case, I usually get snappy when I’m exhausted with someone who has worn me down with a continuous barrage of stuff that I consider to be nonsensical or nasty or ill-informed, and so on. Other times, I’ll say something sharp or sarcastic in immediate response when someone has said something particularly irritating or obnoxious. Like most of us, I’m likely to snap when I come under personal attack, and I don’t always take the time to make a considered response. My pet hate is being told that I am motivated by such-and-such by someone who couldn’t possibly know what motivates me, or that I think this or that when I think no such thing.

    I’m aware that when I have these little snaps, they don’t usually help anybody with anything. Sometimes, a little snap, or an expression of frustration is called for, but not very often. So, it’s pretty clear to me that what I need to do is to be vigilant about any tendency to become insulting towards other people. We really do need to treat each other with respect – until or unless the other person has well and truly put themselves beyond the pale.

    And apart from all the morality/decency arguments that might be made, there’s the practical consideration that insulting, demeaning, belittling etc. just doesn’t work. It simply closes people’s minds to whatever it is that you’re trying to say. And to keep on with the belittling, demeaning and so on, is just plain stupid. Einstein has been credited with this wonderful definition of insanity: ‘… doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results’.

    Where I’m going with this is that I do understand that you get very frustrated. You have taken the trouble to become hugely informed in your particular area of expertise, and you get thoroughly exasperated when people don’t take you seriously. But if you don’t want people to switch off as soon as they see the moniker, Harquebus, maybe it will help if you’re not forever hitting them over the head. The information and understanding that you have amassed is so important that we all need you to find a way to share appropriately.

    And just one more thing. I couldn’t help noticing that you and Miriam have an ongoing stoush about pessimism versus optimism. It might also help your cause if you weren’t so often telling us that we’re all doomed. Yes, we are all doomed unless we take immediate and appropriate steps. You could help us all to take those appropriate steps.

  59. Harquebus

    Thanks for that.
    I doubt that your developers will succeed but, wish them luck. Proxy servers is something that I know quite a bit about and had one myself until recently. A legacy from the days of dial up. I can still hear those modem strings sing whenever I think about it.

  60. Roswell

    Harquebus, there are plugins available that can handle it.

  61. Harquebus

    Kate Ahearne
    Thank you. I will consider what you have said.
    A appropriate step that I do advise is, learn to grow food without pesticides and fertilizers now. You won’t get that chance when it becomes necessary.

  62. Kate Ahearne

    Thanks, Harquebus. I’m quite sure you’re right. We do have a pretty good vegie garden, although we have a lot more to learn. At the moment we’re picking kale (2 sorts), silver beet, spinach, bok choi, celery, broccolini, lettuce (mixed), tomatoes (several sorts), spring onion, chives, parsley, rhubarb, blackberries and raspberries – and potatoes, pumpkin, zucchini coming along nicely. I’m too old and creaky for digging, so my sister and BIL have to do all the hard stuff, but I love growing from seed and from cuttings, and I’m pretty good with a watering can or a hose!

    We use seaweed, cow poo (pinched from our neighbour’s paddock, but he doesn’t mind), recycled chook poo. But we also use Seasol. Is Seasol permissable?

    It’s very pleasing to see that some of the schools are creating gardens for their students to learn the basics, and to experience the sheer joy of seeing things grow and harvesting the fruits of their labours.

  63. Harquebus

    Your last comment has only just dawned on me. Der.

    Kate Ahearne
    That’s good. Mine is a no dig garden. I let the worms do it for me.


  64. Kate Ahearne

    Harquebus, Yes, our worms are getting better and better at their job. The compost is teeming with them. I know some people will consider this little sub-thread to be off-topic, but I’ll try their patience just one more moment to remind you that you didn’t yet tell me what you think of the Seasol. It’s the only manufactured product we use except for potting and seed-raising mix.

  65. Harquebus

    Kate Ahearne
    My apologies. I did see the question but, I am reluctant to discuss this topic on John Lord’s page.

    Although I did use some external fertilizers to get the ball rolling, currently I use no external inputs which, is also not good practice for the long run. I expect at some time in the near future to be adding my own biological waste.

    Imagine no shops and no transport. To survive in that environment one needs to do without so, no, Seasol is not okay. If you intend to keep using it, stock up.


  66. Kate Ahearne

    Thanks, Harquebus. I’m sure John won’t mind.

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