This Could Change Politics Forever

116 Comments

1. Peter Garrett’s article in this weekend’s The Saturday paper makes very good reading. He urges the ALP to start getting serious about climate change issues for environmental AND commercial reasons. But in my opinion, first they need to go into Coalition with the Greens. There is plenty of common ground on the environment. The Coalition succeeds (though barely in 2016) in elections because they have joined together. Think about the benefits….good policy making and good values, plus genuine concern for all citizens, not just the privileged ….would put them streets ahead of the current lot.

   Bill Shorten, take the blinkers off!!

2. No.

3. Love the pictures!

4. Problem is with the ALp voting 55% of the time with the LNP….hey aren’t really stopping them are they… especially when you look what they have done with sole parents by extending Howards policy of moving them to Newstart… by the changes they made to DSP that now is seeing 1 in 4 on Newstart with a severe disability and viting with the LNP to conduct reviews based on there aaended and flawed DSP criteria.

   No thank you I vote for and will continue to vote for some real opposition.

5. Well PK – don’t you think if any opposition, who decided to vote with the Government (the Greens are not innocent here if that is who you mean) and they had to wear a placard to say what they support – may just change their mind or think twice.

   This is a point I made in the article.

6. The further the LNP run to the extreme right, the more they leave for the ALP to follow right behind them. Leaving the Greens as the only genuine progressive/left wing party. Labor has the opportunity to seek a coalition in the next few years. After that the left will see the tragedy of continuing to support the ALP, and migrate wholesale to the Greens. The ALP is done then. And good riddance.

7. Jody. You are seriously missing the complete point of the article. No love for the Greens from me as a party in charge. Sorry.

8. “The further the LNP run to the extreme right, the more they leave for the ALP to follow right behind them”

   Jody, this actually makes me feel a lot better. You see, if this solution was adopted “The Placard Test” Then people like yourself would know that Shorten’s policies are the most leftist policies we have had in a very long time.

   Rather than just left to carry on with the delusion that Labor are far right.

9. Thanks Trish, despite the tongue-in-cheek I think what you propose has merit from a different angle.

   I know it is never going to become the tactic of choice for the politicians but it has much to offer the average Joe-blow who happens to have a host of 2016 election posters retrieved from my Liberal candidate’s fence attachments – she in all her photo-shopped youthful effervescence and he, the debonair silk suited, all smiles Fizza – I could manufacture some LNP policy lines to attach across the base of these inglorious smiling busts and parade down my main street. I think you are onto something here.

10. Phil. “Photoshopped youthful effervescence” Please tell me this is Landry – Or is there a possibility there are more candidates where the photo on the corflute is such a lie! I overheard someone say once (at a booth) about her corflute “Photoshopping 30 years off a face and liposuctioning a candidate should be a criminal offence” I laughed so hard.

11. Not just placards for politicians Trish Corry; why not placards for everyone?

    The vast majority of Australians could then have a placard that reads “I’m an employed, self-centred, ‘I’m okay’ person who doesn’t give a shit about my fellow Australians so I am the one responsible for voting in this fascist LNP Government”.

    Yeah. Good idea.

12. Trish it is a fun idea, but you know what would happen. The politicians would be no more truthful with their placards than their mouths. Their spin doctors would simply design placards that raise people’s fears, say back to them what they want to hear, and lie about their actual intentions. In the end the politicians would carry on exactly as they do now.

    I do seriously want what you said about real consequences for politicians who lie or mislead, though. That alone would revolutionise politics. Poor old Tony Abbott wouldn’t be able to open his mouth for fear of putting his foot in it. Now that would be wicked funny to see.

    I wonder how many people feel as the above commenters do that Labor should join with Greens. I’m a disaffected Labor voter who votes for the Greens only because she sadly no longer trusts Labor. I’d love to know Labor were going to actually represent the Australian people. I’d vote Labor again in a heartbeat. Having talked to many people about this I get the impression this is a fairly widely held feeling. Many Greens voters would happily return to Labor if they came down clearly against big money, big coal, and tax cuts for the rich, and came out strongly in favor of helping the poorest, boosting renewables, looking after our vanishing ecosystems, and so on. I’ve also spoken to many Labor voters who are extremely disappointed in Labor and hold their nose while voting for them, but do so only to stave off the LNP (which I have to admit I did last election). Many Hanson voters are ex-Labor too, but have turned away because of the perception that Labor and LNP are more or less similar and out to screw ordinary folk over for Big Money. As PK, above, noted, Labor voting with the LNP more often than not on policies to wreck Australian society doesn’t help their cause either. And a really glaring problem is both big parties blocking a commission into corruption among politicians — there’s only really one way to interpret that, and most people have done so.

    I’d love to see Labor clearly shout good, humane, progressive policies from the rooftops. I really, honestly would. Unfortunately I think there is a good reason why they don’t.

    I have to add a caveat here: credit must be given for the things Labor do correctly. For example the QLD government has just announced it will introduce a code of human rights based on that in Victoria. I applaud that. It bolster the position of the traditional owners of the land Adani (and the QLD govt) wants to steal. It might also make us safer from the depredations of degenerates like Newman in the future.

13. Trish – the corflute purports to represent Ms Wicks, Liberal, Robertson NSW. She got in by a hairs breadth and has proven useless to the greater good of the electorate – a party apparatchik who parrots the neoliberal line. Abbott preselected her in 2013.

    I said she is useless to us but she knows how to climb the power ladder – this appears to be her game plan rather than anything remotely to do with the Robertson electorate. After all, she supports cuts to domestic violence support systems, cuts to every other social imperative, so she ain’t there for the people

14. Phil, Lucy is also my non-representative. I share your frustration. She has been announcing her 600 ATO jobs for three years now. Asking her when they may actually happen got me banned from her facebook page. But gee we get a lot of ministers visiting…and then leaving….having fixed nothing.

15. Miriam. Labor represents me just fine and must also represent the other 4,702,296 who gave them a first preference vote. I consider myself as part of ‘the people’
    I still do not understand why the Greens supporters want to Greens to join with Labor if they think Labor is so shit.
    It is a very strange way to think in my opinion.

16. Phil the story mirrors our LNP candidate here. She has done absolutely nothing for three years. Has held the seat in Labor electorate since 2013 (same as yours) and won by a hairs breadth. If the ‘massive postal vote all in favour of Wicks” was the decider, as well, it would basically be exactly the same. I still think these postal votes need to really be looked at.

17. We get barraged with junk mail here Trish and amongst it was Lucy’s postal vote application attached to her usual propaganda slogans with a nice picture of her. I rang everyone to complain – apparently both the major parties do it and it isn’t illegal. The AEC advised me to use their form rather than Lucy’s because the parties are just information harvesting. One would hope they pass on the votes but I would feel way more secure returning them to the AEC than a party PO box which was certainly the case with Lucy’s.

18. QLD Labor doesn’t do it. We have debates whether we should, but they don’t. I can’t speak for NSW Labor, but QLD doesn’t. My concern is duplicate votes by postal etc., The disparity between polling booths and postals is quite abnormal. There should be a law against this practice.

19. Another misrepresentation of current appearance is Sudmalis who just scraped in, in Gilmore, NSW south coast with her youthful looking self on display. Now she sits behind Turnbull with her fat, dumpy, mean and nasty personagein full view of what Libs really look like. In my Lib held electorate of McPherson, I received postal voting papers in the mail. I wonder why Labor doesnt do something similar, it certainly makes it easier for many people.

20. Trish, you missed my point. Sadly, I kinda expected you would. Some sort of screen seems to block your vision when anything less than completely uncritical of Labor is said. I’m actually on the same side as you. We both want all the same things for Australia.

    Unfortunately, Labor haven’t been representing me or numerous other people who voted for them largely to try to keep the LNP out.

    As I said, I’m a Labor voter from way back and my family has always been progressive voters. Labor has lost most of us, I’m sorry to say. I honestly wish it wasn’t so.

    I truly hope you can light a firecracker under Labor to get them to make stronger commitments to progressive policies.

    Understanding what I’m saying might go a long way to answering your questions about why people vote for Hanson.

21. I think your view of weakening and disparaging Labor and turning to a third party as a solution, is very opposed to my view of what we both may ‘understand’ why people vote for Hanson.

    PS. Your comment is very unfair.

22. The last four comments between Matters Not and myself have been removed at my discretion.

23. Don’t worry TC, I have a ‘screen shot’.

    History and all that.

    As for censorship …

    BTW, whose Blog is this?

24. Thanks Matters Not. I’m not concerned with anything I have said. I want the comments section to appear welcoming to others. Attacks on the Author do not make for a welcoming atmosphere. Cheers 🙂

25. Hiya Trish, Judy Crozier here. I’ve said for years and years that language matters. You have to say things in a way that will be recognised – as you are saying in the article. Which doesn’t mean we do what the Right does, just go for cliche and fear. We also have to educate: what is the problem, how do we fix it. Trouble is, that requires a more complex argument, since real life is complex. Oh, and for those who call for a coalition with the Greens….no. The Greens’ agenda is to take over from Labor, and so much of their pr is spin and outright misrepresentation. Sorry, but fact.

26. Matters Not: What would Trish Corry’s placade say?

27. Love this placard idea for polies. I have been holding a few lately myself. One was ‘No nuclear waste dump for South Australia.’ Come on Jay, get out there and hold it up, tell us South Ozzies you don’t want South Oz to be the World’s long drop for nuclear waste.

28. Some of us have been regularly getting out on the street with placards, for years. It’s not a new idea.
    Unfortunately, when Labor made the punitive social security arrangements implemented by Howard, much worse, they lost a lot of support. Those arrangements continue to disproportionately impact on women and children. It’s also disappointing to see here comments about women’s appearance when we all know that women are held to much higher standards than men regarding this.

    PS: Love the graphics used here.

29. One last try… Trish, if you read my comments carefully you’ll see I wasn’t weakening and disparaging Labor. I was expressing dismay that Labor have been weakening their own support among voters and their actions disparage what Labor used to stand for. I’ve said time and time again that I’d like to be able to vote Labor with confidence again (instead of holding my nose like last time).

    You want to know why support for Labor has dropped away? Look at Labor’s actions and their often neoliberal policies. Yes, I know they are angels compared to the LNP, but the local drunk is an angel compared to those horrid people. Labor needs to be seen as better than “the lesser evil” (whether they are or not) before they get more votes.

    Look at the USA: a disgusting piece of slime like Trump can poll about the same as Hillary. Why? It’s because she’s seen as merely a continuation of the rule of the same repressive neoliberal policies that are hurting people. (I actually think she might be much more progressive than she’s letting on before the election, but that’s just my own take.) For proof of how powerful this effect of just continuing the same bad rule is, just look at how Bernie actually out-polled her simply because he was unafraid to present genuinely progressive policies.

    Somehow Labor has been convinced by their “handlers” that if they are truly progressive they will lose votes (or at least lose support and money of a few billionaires and mining companies). The evidence says otherwise (though they’re probably right about losing money from corrupting sources). If they would get back to being truly progressive, they would easily beat the LNP and Hanson. But the longer they hold off and let things get worse, the more voters they lose, the more people suffer, and the more people fear mirages, and become deluded LNP and Hanson voters.

30. I lived in New Zealand and never voted until I was 28. Couldn’t see the point really. They all seemed ridiculous. Rob (piggy) Muldoon had been in power for what seemed like forever, a bit like Howard. Then along came David Lange (New Zealand labour Party 1984) One big policy of Lange’s was making New Zealand a Nuclear Free Zone ( American nuclear warships included). I thought, this is a party I can relate to and started voting labor. After moving back to Australia I eventually started voting green. I have voted green for years now.

31. Miriam English
    Just about to walk out the door so I won’t get to read your response till I get back home ,, IF you bother.
    You never answer what you think would change if an unholy Alliance of Green and Labor took place.
    Realistically what would you end up with?
    Adam Bandt being somehow brought to the Labor table.?
    A couple of others I have spoken to about this all ultimately have expressed some weird concept where Greens and Labor form an Alliance and the Greens become be mouthpiece and policy formulator for Labor, and the world will all be rosey again
    You and the clan keep harping on about this ALLIance but not one has bothered to express what the expect out of it,{other than a veiled, Greens will save everything delusion} how it would work, what structure would it take., would Labors 69 seats in the House be equal to the Greens , 1, in voting on issues and policy when they met to formulate policy, would the minority Party abide by majority vote ,
    Geez, there are so many issues that you lot never give a response to,
    You seem to have some warped idea that the ALP and Greens would come together and the political landscape would chance.
    How, why,
    I have a better suggestion.
    For all those who find Labor so appalling, and on the nose, Don’t vote for them.
    Spend your time looking at why the Greens are so unpalatable to the electorate , get out and support them, tell us what the Greens would do better and sell their message.
    Your continual bagging of Labor gets tiresome, the continued need for an Alliance with them hard to comprehend, the lack of a close look at the Greens not unexpected and the idea that somehow an Alliance would make a difference without any explanation as to what ,or how, amusing .
    I look forward to what you see as a working Alliance model, its decision making structure, how it would operate and what benefit there would be to either ALP or Greens
    This, “we need an Alliance. it would be better” crap with no concept of structure, management, policymaking etc gets tiresome
    Time to put some meat on the proposed {or in my case, opposed} Alliance and not just the continual fluffy feel good statements

32. A placard test! Trish, really, is this the best that you can come up with? Another Clayton’s solution.

    Politicians don’t do anything constructive because there is nothing that they can do. Our world has reached its limits. Most, including politicians, just haven’t realized this yet. They will.

    Cheers.

33. I’d have more respect for the Greens if they started sincerely opposing the Liberals and Nationals in their marginal seats instead of mounting their strongest campaigns against Labor seats such as that represented by Anthony Albanese. Adam Brandt occupies a seat that could be a labor seat. Why don’t the Greens make a major effort to take Liberal and National seats?

34. king1394,

    Labor has no intention of co-operating with the Greens in any way so why should they expect that sort of co-operation when obviously the Greens are more likely to be successful in progressive leaning seats?

    This is the dilemma that we non-aligned progressive voters face. The Coalition tell us we must have respect for One Nation and negotiate with them in good faith but the progressive side spend their time ripping each other apart. It is unbelievably frustrating for those of us who don’t care who cuts the ribbon as long as the bloody thing gets built!

    Labor seems to want to live in an echo chamber of no criticism. This is disappointing.

    PS In the years when I have been conversing with MN I have never ever known him to be abusive – pedantic, yes, abusive no. He is a valued contributor whose opinion I respect.

35. Miriam. Sorry Miriam. I STILL disagree. I think the difference between you and me, is that you believe that Labor should be some socialist far left party. The same as Bernie Sanders supporters expect the democrats to be a far left party.

    Labor is a democratic socialist party. They are a Laborist Party. This means that their central values are about jobs and the worker.

    There is a natural disparity between environmentalists and Laborist (this can be googled very easily – most of the work is American, but easily translated to an Australian situation)

    An environmentalists view is to protect the environment at all costs (even if that means destroying or impeding jobs). Laborists would want to work out a way to mitigate as much damage as possible (or where possible and reasonable) and protect jobs.

    Labor takes a centre-left view with employment, because as a centre left party, they value a mix between private and public enterprise. They are not for complete socialism of all industry, but they support a large viable, accessible public service. That means that tough decisions need to be made between private ownership, taxes, the budget etc. to keep industry viable to create jobs and to place real value on the labour of the worker as an input commodity.

    On the other side of the spectrum, the Liberals make decisions around making Private Industry as large and powerful as possible (and placing little or no value on the labour of the worker as an input commodity and making the public sector as small as possible, their taxes and budget decisions are to support that.

    Unless the Greens valued the same mix or public and private industry then this would be incompatible with Labor. If the Greens did value it, then they would have to compromise if they were in Govt as well. They would not be able to adopt the ‘my way or the highway’ approach which is their hallmark, and sustain a viable economy for all people (business, workers, welfare) at the same time. That would impede progress.

    Then there is the other side of environmentalism: I had a discussion the other day with an environmentalist/sustainable party/Greens supporter who has switched to Hanson. The reason? That they believe that stopping immigration at all costs will stop population growth and will protect the environment.

    In my opinion, that is an extreme view and would impede progress.

    So when you talk about ‘progressive’ parties:

    One which would destroy or impede jobs for the sake of the environment with no compromise, is not progressive.

    One that would place little or no value on the worker, and reduce public services is not progressive.

    The party who creates the balance between the two is progressive because they keep progress going.

    This is where you and I disagree.

    I also realise that a real progressive party is never ever perfect because it is the constant internal battle for ideas, along with managing the continuous changes in the external. So your claims previously:

    “Trish, you missed my point. Sadly, I kinda expected you would. Some sort of screen seems to block your vision when anything less than completely uncritical of Labor is said.”

    Are very unfair and simply not true at all.

    The point here is Labor has a constant flow of ideas – a continuous flow of ideas including very original ideas for the betterment of Australia for over 100 years now. Some things like Medicare, Super and some of our Industrial protections are things that we take for granted now. In fact Shorten’s policies are much more to the left than Gillard/Rudd and his team had produced 100 of them prior to the election for anyone to view.

    That most progressive party, in my very strong opinion is Labor. If you map Greens policies, you will see there are many instances were they are built off existing Labor party ideas. When the Greens come up with unique social or economic solutions, then they may be seen as a more mature party.

    I do not see the Greens as a major party with they way they act now, would be a good idea for Australia. I value them for their stance in certain areas, but I do not value them as the party in charge. Their actions to date are immature in terms of what is required to Govern as a whole or all Australians.

    I am not sure how this thread ended up as commentary of Labor Greens comparisons, when the Greens are not even mentioned in the article.

    I have taken my time to respond. I hope you can see now why I do not value an alliance. May I suggest you take Corny’s comments into account, Kings comments into account, DidISayThatOutLoud’s comments. Then may I suggest go and read Victoria’s latest article about how progressives have more pressure placed on them and different expectations. I do not believe the same expectations Victoria speaks about in her article are currently placed on the Greens.

    I’ll stick with Labor. Everyone else is old enough to make their own choices. An alliance is not the solution we need right now or at all. In fact Labor and Greens are incompatible in some areas. I’m not sure why the attempts to convince me of an alliance by quite a few people, on almost every article I write, factors into anything. I am one person in a country of millions.

36. Congratulations Kaye. How lovely for you. I have full control of my comments and I made a decision to delete some comments. I do not need to explain to you or anyone else, why I chose to moderate those comments out. Thank you.

37. “I want the comments section to appear welcoming to others. ”

    You need to do some work on that Trish. I did not ask for any explanation. I did not comment on your action. I expressed an opinion – something which, last time I checked, I was entitled to do.

38. Well I would not expect that you would make a comment about my moderating out Matters Not’s comment’s without the free right of reply. Are you entitled to make comment, but others not have the free right of reply? I am not going to enter into a discussion of the deleted comments. It is not a common practice, but in this instance, I saw it fit to delete them. I won’t discuss this anymore. Frankly, it is none of your business how I control comments on my own posts.

39. Apologies for late entry.

    Trish: “In fact Labor and Greens are incompatible in some areas.”

    I agree.

    But.

    The LNP and Labor should, by truthful ideology, be even further apart, yet history has shown Labor supporting many LNP policies.

    Also.

    Just because two parties on the left/progressive side don’t agree with EVERYTHING, does that mean they can’t work together? Like spoilt brats who won’t share their toys, is that what Labor and the Greens are?

40. Trish
    A lot more people are going to be on the dole for a very long time. Our world can not sustain the current number of workers so, the environment must take precedence. Our lives depend on it.

    Censorship weakens one’s arguments. It is not a good look.

    Cheers.

41. Hi Dianna. What Labor and Greens are is opposing parties, who have some shared interests.

    I believe Labor and the Greens do work together very much so in parliament and like on the booths during the election, are helpful, respectful and friendly to each other (well maybe not in Melbourne lol), but will disagree where they do not agree.

    I think it is pretty clear under Shorten that Labor is moving further and further away from the Liberals. If you look at analysis of Gough, his downfall was he did this too quickly. (This is also discussed in the IPA articles where they wanted Abbott to do the same – shift the landscape so far to the right the left could not pull it back). I assume that Labor is taking a more measured approach with their creation of this divide, to not repeat history (my opinion only) others may have other ideas. However, there is definitely a good contrast showing under Shorten than there was under Gillard/Rudd.

42. I have no desire to discuss that with you either Trish. I made no comment about it at all. Once again, that is YOUR projection. Why you would focus on that and not the substance of my comment is hard to understand.

43. Janet SimpsonOctober 29, 2016 at 5:45 pm and Peter Garrett have some good ideas, so has Trish. My idea is to democratize the Labor Party so everyday Australians would want to join the party, instead of the party being under the control basically of the two weakest supposed unions in Australia which I call the AWU/SDA Alliance. If everyday people could join a political party which was fully democratized on the one vote, one value system, which the Queensland ALP fought for in the era of old Sir Joh, all I’m asking for is the same application applied to the ALP all Branches.

    I definitely agree that we need to take our protest to the streets, even though I can no longer walk I support the actions we took in the 70s to bring about change for the better. All political parties are losing members these days, Labor as the oldest established political party needs to become a party of the people, that way the party could attract people whose Branch members would help to formulate positive policy. I have been shouted down before and I expect to be shouted down again, however it is the only way we will truly see the wishes of the people come to fruition in my humble opinion.

44. Fairy claps for the people who are upset I deleted a comment. I don’t care. Thanks.

    On the contrary Harquebus, some major blogging and newspaper forums are turning off comments altogether and shifting the comments to platforms such as Facebook.

    Harquebus, I would hope that with a change of Government, employment will improve. I never said environment was not important. I was explaining the difference between impeding jobs and/or destroying jobs with no compromise compared to the compromise of mitigate as much as practically possible.

45. Miriam EnglishOctober 29, 2016 at 8:00 pm You and I are in the same position, Bill was loud and proud in the election campaign, he gained 14 seats in the parliament then went back into his shell. How about the Shadow Ministers make regular attacks on this woeful government. The ALP should be energized by the 14 seat gain on a first term govt, to be within 1 seat of governing however I’ve heard bugger all from Shorten or the Shadow Ministers in the past 3 months, what’s going on?

46. Hey Shaun. Thanks for stopping by. I still am confused with the AWU/SDA alliance you talk about. I don’t see it. QLD is predominantly left. Some of the policies passed at conference are awesome! The speeches I have viewed online are so great. Annastacia had me in tears on Labor’s commitment to reinstating the Barrett Mental Health Facility for young people (something I personally joined the petition and fought for). A brand new service after Newman closed it and three young people died due to the lack of services. Heart breaking.

    If you haven’t seen them, let me know and I’ll find the videos.

    I wish you lived in here, I’d have you in our branch any day. Your own experience doesn’t seem as happy as mine in the my branch 🙁
    We have had new members every month with quite a few new young people which absolutely rocks my world.

    I completely agree with a party for the people, continuous reforms are essential. Some of the new policies passed were changes in AA quota for women to extend to executive positions and an introduction of LGBTIQ quotas. I think these are positive moves.

    Two new Labor associations are gaining prominence too. Labor Enabled (Disability advocacy) and Labor for the Regions (Regional and Rural advocacy) I think these are great associations too and speak more to the people of what we are about, who may not know.

47. Trish my suspicion is that Harquebus is a tory anyway, he won’t be missed.

48. “With the coal industry in structural decline, we Greens are putting forward alternative opportunities for the thousands of Queensland workers who have been sacked by this dying industry,” Senator Waters said.

    “The Greens’ plan to Renew Queensland builds at least 90% clean energy by 2030 would create $53 billion in investment in Queensland over the next 15 years, and 3,000-5,500 full time jobs in design and construction every single year from 2017, plus jobs in operation and maintenance.

    “Recently the Greens announced another three policies designed to drive jobs in clean energy: $265 million in support for community-owned clean energy, $192 million to get solar on to every rooftop, and $3 billion to roll out battery storage for 1.2 million homes and 30,000 businesses.

    “We have also announced a $1 billion Clean Energy Transition Fund to assist regional communities at the front line of this transition by training workers with construction, manufacturing and technology skills to work in clean energy and the jobs of the future.

    “We have a plan in place to make sure that coal companies pay upfront for the cost of rehabilitating the land when their operations close, which guarantees local jobs in rehabilitation.

    “Delivering a 21st century clean-energy economy will not only generate new, lasting jobs but will safeguard the existing Great Barrier Reef tourism jobs and agricultural jobs that coal mining and coal seam gas are threatening,” Senator Waters said.

49. Trish, could you please email me your phone number on my email sne35565@westnet.com.au and I will explain the AWU/SDA Alliance.

50. I just inboxed you on Facebook.

51. Kaye, I like all those Green policies, however there is no chance of a Green government in either State or Federal more is the pity.

52. Trish
    Facebook is a NSA honey trap and is why I don’t use it.
    Search criteria: Five Eyes.

    As I said, our world has reached its physical limits. High unemployment is now beyond anyone’s control. The only practical solution is to reduce our populations to suit environmental limits and depleted resources.

    townsvilleblog
    May I contact you?

53. In NSW….

    The $20 billion would be raised from taxing property speculators and profitable clubs with poker machines, as well as maintaining duties on large business transactions.

    From it, $2.2 billion would be channelled over four years to local councils struggling with high-unemployment rates to create 6900 jobs and 2000 training opportunities.

    Another $550 million would be spent over four years through councils and Aboriginal Land Councils to build and refurbish small-scale infrastructure, such as storm-water works, childcare centres and bicycle paths.

    “As part of our vision for a green jobs-rich future for the state, we want to kick start those local and regional economies that are trapped in a cycle of inter-generational unemployment,” Dr Kaye told more than 300 supporters in emerald green at the University of Technology, Sydney.

    “This is about lifting areas like the Far West, the Hunter and the Mid North Coast out of the consequences of decades of failed trickle-down economic policies.”

    From the $20 billion, the Greens also pledged to spend $4.5 billion on public hospitals and schools, $6 billion on the transition to renewable energy, and $4.5 billion on housing affordability.

54. Miriam, I hear you fine. Which is precisely why I campaign for a democratic ALP who would whip the arse off the L&NP because so many everyday people and their policies could not be ignored. It is a fact that the Labor politicians are far more right wing than the members of the Labor Party, and there is a good reason for that. I want to discuss that reason with Trish, which is why I supplied my email address, you Miriam are welcome to contact me also if you would like another fellow traveler for friendship.

    October 30, 2016 at 8:14 am

    One last try… Trish, if you read my comments carefully you’ll see I wasn’t weakening and disparaging Labor. I was expressing dismay that Labor have been weakening their own support among voters and their actions disparage what Labor used to stand for. I’ve said time and time again that I’d like to be able to vote Labor with confidence again (instead of holding my nose like last time).

    You want to know why support for Labor has dropped away? Look at Labor’s actions and their often neoliberal policies. Yes, I know they are angels compared to the LNP, but the local drunk is an angel compared to those horrid people. Labor needs to be seen as better than “the lesser evil” (whether they are or not) before they get more votes.

    Look at the USA: a disgusting piece of slime like Trump can poll about the same as Hillary. Why? It’s because she’s seen as merely a continuation of the rule of the same repressive neoliberal policies that are hurting people. (I actually think she might be much more progressive than she’s letting on before the election, but that’s just my own take.) For proof of how powerful this effect of just continuing the same bad rule is, just look at how Bernie actually out-polled her simply because he was unafraid to present genuinely progressive policies.

    Somehow Labor has been convinced by their “handlers” that if they are truly progressive they will lose votes (or at least lose support and money of a few billionaires and mining companies). The evidence says otherwise (though they’re probably right about losing money from corrupting sources). If they would get back to being truly progressive, they would easily beat the LNP and Hanson. But the longer they hold off and let things get worse, the more voters they lose, the more people suffer, and the more people fear mirages, and become deluded LNP and Hanson voters.

55. Trish

    Labor and the LNP are opposing political parties. At least, they are in my corner of the world. Even then, these opposing sides are expected to behave like adults and work together on policies, sometimes, irrespective of any claim to a “mandate” – which is difficult but not impossible.

    Labor and the Greens are both progressive parties (one a little bit less than the other), however, they have way more in common with each other, than they do with the LNP or One Nation.

    This is how things work where I live.

    I can see why we have a failure to communicate Trish. As much as I applaud you for trying to talk reason to One Nation voters and the placard thingy – not sure how this will work without access to Photoshop – but I do support you for these ideas. I am not trolling nor blaming.

    However, I am very concerned that you see the Greens and Labor as opposites, if we can clear up this difference between us, hopefully we may interact and communicate with each other better in future.

    Now. Is all of Labor claiming they are the opposite to the Greens? Bill Shorten? Tanya Plibersek? Local branch manager? Is this belief endemic throughout Labor?

56. The amusing irony is (well, maybe not so amusing) is that Labor has a record of either promoting or supporting policies or going along in degrees, claiming to have exacted “compromises” from the Liberals, that match several of the statements on the placards.

57. Why is that ironic Jexpat? Are you assuming that this solution I have proposed does not extend to all parties? I think the conclusion section of the article is quite clear.

58. I’m just saying that if we’re going to photoshop placards, then is would be a good idea to ensure that the policies promoted (and at least the more recent track record) is consistent with them.

    This means no more plans to slash payments to single mothers and children, many of whom already live below the poverty line- fomenting outrage among groups the Australian Council of Social Services (ACOSS) who would otherwise be allies.

    To cite just one example.

59. Yes, possibly Jexpat. You have that power within you. You can write you own blog pieces and publish them.

60. I’m sorry Diann. But I don’t understand why you think I see Labor as opposites. I clearly stated they are opposing parties (they ARE two different parties, vying for the same seats) who share some common interests and values in some areas.

    The Liberals and Nationals may have formed together to win seats, but their disparate ideologies will be the death of them. Hopefully sooner rather than later. Have you noticed the insane radicalisation of Turnbull yesterday with his latest asylum seeker announcement! He hasn’t gone full blown Tones, he has gone full blown Pauline.

    I’m not sure what you mean by the last comment as in opposite to Greens. I believe they are opposing parties – not opposite in all things to Greens, which means that they are in completely different parties, with different policy ideas, although they may agree on some things.

    I am a member of Labor – however, my articles are my own views and my own voice. I am a Laborist, so therefore, those values make up my thoughts, opinions, beliefs etc,. just as a conservative would have their conservative beliefs underpin their thoughts. I am NOT THE Labor party. I am an independent blogger who happens to be a member of the party. The two should not be confused.

    I have no idea of what Shorten and Plibersek think about anything. Nor would I be so completely off kilter to assume I know what they think or believe.

    Jackie Lambie also agrees on some Labor things (like standing up for the worker) however, I would not describe her party as a party in complete alliance with Labor, nor would I the Greens.

    There are many parties with whom Labor would agree with on their various policies, but that does not make them a natural compatible merger or alliance. I’m not sure why Greens supporters see this should with the Greens, OR why it matters so much to them that this happens.

    My ideal world is not the Greens fighting Labor to be the opposition to the Libs / Coalition. My ideal world is the Libs / Coalition have as many seats as the democrats do today. That is all I care about. They do not deserve to represent ONE seat.

    From a writer perspective, I would like to understand though how this article has absolutely nothing to do with the Greens, but Greens supporters have seen something in this article that has drawn out this Labor vs Greens commentary.

61. Trish

    You meant “opposing” I read “opposite” whateva.

    You said, “From a writer perspective, I would like to understand though how this article has absolutely nothing to do with the Greens”

    As a writer you chose not to mention the Greens.

    Although you were discussing the dispositions of the Liberals, One Nation, The Nationals – the most high profile parties from the right.

    So why only mention Labor?

    The Greens and Labor are the 2 major parties from the left. If you are not just running a promotion for Labor and are offering opinion on the differences between the left and right of Australian politics, why would you not mention other parties from than left? OK, so you only want to discuss Labor – try to understand there are many people here from the left who vote Labor in the HoR and Greens or others in the senate, this is not your local Labor branch meeting, you can widen the topic.

    The left of politics is diverse and any discussion has to include other parties and people from the left. Kind of like trying to discuss the Liberals without mentioning One Nation.

62. Labor placards might read like this:

    Annastacia Palaszczuk “I want to increase GHG emissions by 705 million tonnes of CO2 each year”

    Bill Shorten “We vote for a 20% reduction in the previously bipartisan renewable energy target”

    or “Schoolkids bonus – sorry can’t afford it. We have submarines to buy.”

    or “Refugees must be punished for coming by sea to seek our help”

    Their actions aren’t always consistent with their messaging.

63. Kaye Lee:

    They might also say: “Hey duel citizens: bugger off and go back to where you came from.

64. Finally Kaye Lee you have shown your bias and the only thing you forgot to include was a Greens Party application form.Banning time for me a guess

65. Dianna – “As a writer you chose not to mention the Greens.”

    Why would I not write about what you want me to write about? Because I wrote the article and not you. I think that is pretty simple. If my writing is continuously displeasing to you Dianna, I’m not sure why you bother reading something with my name attached.

    I will not be changing my writing style or what I write about, or how I write it for you or anyone else. I do not write for any audience. I write for myself. The entire point of being a blogger is one is Independent.

    Your response is interesting and reaches wider than my original thought: I merely wanted to know what it was about the article that inflamed Greens supporters to come here and comment to the extent they felt strongly compelled to state their case about how terrible Labor is compared to the Greens and then the same old diatribe about an alliance, when the I did not rubbish the Greens in the article at all.

    I wondered if it was something I mentioned in the article. Feel free to keep commenting your compulsion about the Greens, I do not care – I was more interested in the WHY. Did the article invoke some type of angry emotion? Did I write something about the Greens that was upsetting to Greens supporters? If so, I didn’t see that coming when I wrote it.

66. Puhlease Trish, not more of this “why would I not write about what you want me to write about” nonsense. You do this EVERY time someone seeks clarification as to an issue and it is becoming threadbare as an evasive devise.

67. Paul. No writer on any site needs to justify to ANYONE what they do or do not write about, what they do or do not include nor do they need to respond to questions about their ‘writing voice’

    I do not sit down and think “Oh what will Dianna and Paul think of this” before I write something. If I did that, I would not bother writing at all.

    If other bloggers curb their writing to appeal to certain readers for pats on the head and camaraderie, or if the commentariat think they have the right to push this onto writers, then that is an utter shame.

    I am not that style of writer.

68. Trish, I’m amazed at how I can say something, then you half read it and assume I’m saying something entirely different, to which you mount an angry attack on what you wrongly think I said. What a waste.

69. I haven’t written an angry attack on you or anyone……. I wrote a long paragraph on why I believe we have opposing arguments as to the value of the Greens. I have just re-read it and for the life of me, I cannot fathom how you have read that as an angry comment.

70. “Finally Kaye Lee you have shown your bias ”

    In what way? Was anything I said on the placards incorrect? I don’t know how to get through that I have no allegiance to any political party – I am equally accused by all for my opinions. I am certainly in favour of renewable energy in front of coal – the confusing part is I thought Labor was too.

    Trish I really think you need to understand the purpose of this site which is for people to discuss politics and other things. You write thought provoking articles and then seem to get upset when people express their thoughts or if the discussion broadens. You wrote before that you want to be welcoming. That is not what is coming across.

71. I have not been upset at all in any of the commentary here at all. I’m not sure where you are even coming from, or why you have made that comment.

    What does it matter if I am happy or upset at anything in the commentary? People will have their own perception, as you have just had yours. I have no control over that.

72. I don’t even read these blogs anymore ,when they always seemed to turn into personal arguments between three, four ,or, at most five girls, I stopped following them altogether.

    Enough unpleasantness from our right wing politicians is already more than enough to keep one away from political blogs for years to come….

73. While the idea of using placards as personal statements of political or social stance is an interesting one it leaves the major issue of personal agency still very much unanswered.
    The one thing our world is not short of is personal opinion on just about any and every matter. What remains lacking is the ability to turn that passion and commitment into tangible political change.
    Iceland may well have the Pirate Party forming a coalition in government. At the heart of their agenda are constitutional changes that will return political power and a voting mandate to the electorate rather than continuing to cede that power to our increasingly unrepresentative pollies.
    Through secure online polling and votes they intend to create a more just and democratically representative society, developing on the initiatives that sprang from the financial ruin of the 2008 financial crash. Unlike other advanced economies that saw tremendous losses and massively public bailouts, the Icelandic nation has prosecuted those reckless bankers who sold out the wealth of a nation and jailed them. Likewise the legal system, at the popular insistence of the people, has pursued politicians and civil servants who have colluded in corruption with the banks and multinational corporations that engineered the financial meltdown.
    Australia has suffered similarly at the hands of multinationals, obscenely rich individuals and the power mad political class (LNP & Labor). We now have less privacy than ever before with our governments mandating data retention and collection while every keystroke is logged by the multinational corporations of the internet.
    Together the two have developed a symbiotic relationship based on the free flow of cash in exchange for favour and preferential treatment. These corporations with the assistance of our “representatives” have written and instituted tax laws so favourable to them that they are paying close to 0% tax in primary markets such as Australia. They are likewise tightening their grip on the content of the media & internet, implementing ever more punitive measures in the protection of their copyright, extending control to the use of genetic materials and natural compounds through secretly negotiated “free trade agreements”
    That we now have 3 cabinet ministers working on the defence portfolio says much about the agenda of the LNP and it’s corporate sponsors. In a world where we have NO money for social programs, magically, the LNP can commit us to, not only a never ending war, but also to some staggeringly expensive defence acquisition programs.
    War has never been about political difference or religious belief. They might be used as a rallying call for the ignorant or feeble minded to die for but the terrible truth is that every rifle, rocket, grenade, bomb, pound of Semtex….represents a very profitable sale for a large government / corporate entity. The Gulf War saga made billions upon billions of dollars for them, with complete disregard for the consequences, other than to turn a handy further profit on the arming of homeland defences and the incarceration of refugees.

    We know the corruption – it’s plain and simple. You can wave your placard and you can wear your Labor beanie & scarf while squeezing your lucky rabbit’s foot and know that all of it will continue, much the same, because Labor, like the LNP, is a business so reliant on the money of others that they will never escape that gravity.

    Wave your placard, proclaim your opinion, civilly discuss the matter and vote in your local democracy. Bypass the bipolarity that guarantees you will never be heard and respected and make your mark in changing our history. pollyweb.org

    Change is possible, only you have to do it.

74. Thanks Helvityni. I made a decision this morning and your comment has made me feel much better about that decision. Thank you.

75. Helvityni

    Only women here, mostly, but haven’t noticed any children; boys or girls.

    I thought we were having a debate. Just where have I been personally offensive? – if so, I would like to apologise.

76. I read all comments and follow most links. How else can I know what you all think?

77. Trish Corry Corflutes memes already worked out by angry young Labor members http://junkee.com/angry-young-labor-members-have-launched-a-pretty-excellent-meme-war-against-the-greens/55279 are certain to raise a giggle

78. Angry young hypocrites, hansonites egged on by half witted harridans

    That’s basically what you’re saying right?

    I mean, the hypocrisy has repeatedly been on display -on the recorrd, time and time again, for people to see for themselves, even within this very thread.

    Not sure what Labor right hopes to gain (other than mates rates) from all of this.

79. Jexpat my compliments https://www.facebook.com/Greensdoingthings?fref=ts

80. I’m sure you like your facebook bits, but you’ll have to pardon those of us who matured out of middle school mentality a long time ago.

81. While it matters not, let’s ensure the ‘facts’ that might be cited in any historical record. Let’s start with a factual statement and TC has the stage all to herself:

    The last four comments between Matters Not and myself have been removed at my discretion

    All true. Tis a fact that TC removed four comments and it was all done at TC’s discretion. I had absolutely no input in that decision. Merely an observer, powerless to intervene. But consider this.

    My original comment was about Miriam’s post at 11:29 pm which I endorsed. (Comment one) (Sorry TC you didn’t get either a recognition or even a mention.) TC’s response directed to me was then somewhat ‘over the top’. (Comment two,) So much so, I suggested that she seek professional help. (Comment three). Then there was Comment four from TC which was completely ‘over the top’ directed to me as well. A real worry.

    Then there was the deletion by TC. Perhaps, an attempt to destroy the historical record using the ‘rationale’ of want the comments section to appear welcoming to others . Really? Welcoming to others?

    Seems to me, that TC used my comments as a ‘cover’ to delete her completely embarrassing comments. But who knows?

    I wasn’t ‘driving the deletion bus’.

    Again I stress, in the whole scheme of things, it matters not.

82. Facebook had 1.71 billion monthly active users.If you aren’t capable or too mentally incapacitated or just not interested in using Facebook that’s your business

83. great idea

84. Yes, So much butthurt over a deleted comment really does Matter Not. You can all put your pitchforks down now.
    It Matters Not at all.

85. Knowing how to use facebook -and recognising (and passing by) the juvenile foolishness posted by never matured beyond middle school sorts are two different things.

    I will say this for facebook: it’s proven to be the most effective engine for outing the stupid since the invention of the printing press, rivalled only by twitter.

86. Yes, So much butthurt over a deleted comment really does Matter Not. You can all put your pitchforks down now.
    It Matters Not at all.

    Interesting! And confirming.

    But to keep the record straight, there were two of your comments (self) deleted which you have not acknowledged in you later post. Not that it matters.

    As for me, I don’t even have a pitchfork.

87. I don’t know what happened to your comments, Bob. They went missing in the system, for which I apologise.

88. Yes, Matters Not. I deleted your comments. Four comments all up. Including two of mine. Because if I just deleted the one comment, the three hanging on their own, would have looked bizarre. As I said. It Matters Not at all.

89. Michael I deleted them. Matters Not knows I deleted his comment last night and the following three comments (which were replies between myself and Matters Not). I made a comment explicitly stating that the comment was deleted at my own discretion (30/10/2016 12:16 am), which I assumed was the polite thing to do when a comment is deleted. This entire thing is an over-dramatisation and completely unnecessary. I cannot believe this has gone all the way to the complaints department!

90. Original comment: The last four comments between Matters Not and myself have been removed at my discretion. Please get over it. OMG!

91. this has gone all the way to the complaints department!

    Not from me. Let me assure you.

    Not into censorship and all that. What about you?

92. What complaints department? Nobody has complained. I regularly check spam or deleted comments. Since the WordPress upgrade quite a few comments have gone straight into the deleted folder without being published. I assumed that it had happened to Bob, so I apologised to him.

93. Ok. I just assumed because there has been so much hullaballoo about the deleted comment you were called in.

94. Trish Corry, I love you! You have just articulated the very anger and frustration that I am feeling. I am on a part pension and because of the changes to the assets test I am about to lose three quarters of it. It is unfair to change the rules after financial decisions on retirement have been made. With low interest rates and a conservative approach (after the GFC) I can’t make up that difference and something has to give.

    But what really frustrates me is to see our essential services and valuable food production land sold. Our land needs to be protected!
    You can have investment without selling off assets. This creates no new jobs and is actually quite dangerous. Why aren’t we making use of this time of low interest rates to invest in things like renewables and High Speed Rail. what we have instead is short term gain (if you could call it that) for long term pain.

    Our manufacturing industry has gone and now our dairy industry is on the way out. All for the push towards globalisation and free trade agreements none of which have actually benefited ordinary Australians.

    Even Albo has joined the ranks of those who tell porky pies and can’t be trusted! His obsession with a second airport at Badgery’s Creek fails to consider the fact that the location cannot meet international safety standards and will impact on the health of all people in the Sydney Basin. Flight paths all over our magnificent World Heritage Blue Mountains at low altitudes is abhorrent and not at all suited the quiet contemplation the spectacular scenery evokes.

    There are a few exceptions but most politicians cannot be trusted and the rot is spreading! We need a Super Hero! Where are the Gough Whitlams of today?

95. I just assumed

    Happens all the time. Inescapable perhaps? Part of the human condition?

96. A second airport proposed at Badgery Creek. What a joke. We need to reduce emissions yesterday and the morons want another airport. Just another nail in our coffin.

97. People who voted for the Hanson party don’t understand what is really going on.Though the stupid do respond well to slogans.

    Labor and the greens have to develop slogans of their own that these people will understand.
    For instance. Vodafone,Optus,Westpac,Telstra etc and others have have call centres in Asia.

    Therefore they are stealing Australia Jobs.People should be protesting outside these large Australian companies now demanding these jobs come back home.Potential slogans are.

    :Westpac stole my job” “Vodafone hates Australians”. “Telstra is un Australian”. Optus only likes cheap Labor”. I would like know which other Aussie companies do this? Maybe we could compile a list?

98. MN, dealing with a conflict by suggesting that the other person ‘seek professional help’ is very offensive. I don’t blame Trish for deleting that. Do you know how long men have been using that tactic of constructing women who challenge them, as ‘hysterical’? Why not just suggest she get her smelling salts? It is also very ableist language. People with diagnoses are still actually allowed to have opinions and state them, believe it or not. You really need to rethink this kind of language on a progressive blog such as this.
99. worth a peek.

100. DJ, I was hoping to confine this unfortunate exchange to the dustbin of history. Yes I am well aware that ‘feminist’ history in particular, as well as other perspectives, recognise all the generalised claims you make. And do so with convincing effect and affect. Me included. But to suggest that generalised, valid claims can be applied to all specific incidents is rather a stretch. For example, yes the number of men who kill women vastly outnumbers the number of women who kill men, but to suggest that the latter isn’t possible lacks credibility

     I would like to refer you to the context so that to could view the ‘exchange’ for yourself but unfortunately it has been deleted. Something beyond my power. I didn’t write this history. Nor its rewrite.

     I think that you are drawing conclusions and making generalisations – giving meanings and the like – that aren’t quite fair. Nor valid!

     Perhaps you could also rethink your language on a progressive blog such as this?

101. https://www.pollyweb.org/home/
     when a placard really isn’t enough ; )

102. Calm down, MN. My response was based on your admission that you told someone to seek professional help. You should not do that, ever.

103. I agree DJ but I also know the frustration that Trish’s deliberate misrepresentation of what is being said can cause.

104. I don’t think Trish deliberately misrepresents. I think she honestly has good intentions and doesn’t realise it’s happening. When something appears to hurt the Labor party, which she understandably holds dear, she overreacts, treating such statements as a genuine threat.

     The irony is that she wants to make the Labor party more able to meet the challenges of these changing times and has, herself, mentioned some of Labor’s difficulties. It’s just when someone else mentions similar, or even exactly the same things, they are seen as attacking and she takes it personally.

     This is a widespread problem — try talking to a religious person about why there is obviously no god; try talking to a person who abuses a drug, for example alcohol, about the danger of that; have a look at the replies from Hansonites in the comments to Trish’s article about the problems with One Nation.

     This worsened by frank discussion through text-based media because of the difficulty of conveying emotions, and our impatience today with softening statements.

     Witness the rise of people who rebel against “political correctness” and who like to make direct, intentionally inflammatory statements, proudly calling a spade a spade. It is a very dangerous trend. Trump and Hanson are examples of what lies along that direction.

     Gentle speech has become confused with waffle and the politicians’ art of talking without actually saying anything. That is quite different.

     (As an aside, I have a feeling that this is why, in Victorian times, letters used such ornate prose — text was a primary mode of communication so necessity spurred the development of text that was self-effacing and ornately conciliatory because it is far too easy to take offence at simple unembellished text.)

105. Well said Miriam. It is very easy to misunderstand each other when body language and tone of voice and eye contact are missing. I have listened to what people have said and will certainly try to do better.

106. “Trish’s deliberate misrepresentation”
     OMG
     MN seems to have an aversion to strong forceful women and it seems there can only be one princess on AIMN

107. I hope Trish does not stay away; we need to hear varied opinions…. We are not here to change anyone, but we can modify our own behaviour.

     We are lucky that we can always move to the next article on offer, something for everyone.

108. I should hastily (I’m late for a meeting) point out that I’m no angel here either. I misinterpreted Trish’s earlier reply to me as angry, when looking back at it, I see now that it wasn’t an angry reply.

     This is a big problem with text-based communication. However it isn’t only there that these kinds of miscommunications cause problems; face-to-face discussions can go very badly due to similar misunderstandings too.

     Even though it may be very difficult, we should never give up on trying to communicate, because no matter how discouraging it can be sometimes, the only way to totally fail is to stop communicating.

109. I was going to leave a comment, but it would probably be deleted.

110. nurses,

     I agree that was probably unfair.

111. nurses, one princess on AIMN, and definitely only one prince in Oz.

112. Miriam

     Agree absolutely with:

     Even though it may be very difficult, we should never give up on trying to communicate, because no matter how discouraging it can be sometimes, the only way to totally fail is to stop communicating.

     AIMNers can check out Trish’s latest article here:

     Who Defines Patriotism? The Politicians or Us?

113. Ah! looks like a kiss and make up ending.

114. bobrafto
     Hardly, it’s neverending maybe time for some to pout and some to pull the collective knives from their backs especially if you happen to support Labor

115. nurses,

     Let’s put an end to it. There has been no backstabbing (kind of hard to backstab someone when your comments are written for all to see), just passionate people discussing their beliefs and perhaps not listening to each other well enough. I think pretty much everyone here either does support Labor or would like to. Let’s work together, listening to each other about both what Labor and the Coalition are doing, both good and bad. Trish always writes good articles – they prompt thought which is good and comment…which hasn’t always turned out so well. For my part, I will try to be more constructive, and I apologise for any discomfort I may have caused. It has never been through malice but I must control my frustration better and express myself more positively.

     Trish, for what it is worth, I value your writing and I am sorry we have collided rather than collaborated. It was not my intention.

116. Labor stopped representing the working class a long time ago,they commit to nothing and are gutless,panics to public opinion.