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Careful What You Say !

The High Court decision in the Voller case concerns whether a publisher can be held responsible for comments readers post on its website. Specifically, the decision applies to Facebook but would appear to apply equally to any social media publisher, potentially including this website. Indeed, The Conversation seems sufficiently concerned to shut down all comment and discussion on the case in question – an over-reaction perhaps.

The majority High Court decision found that Facebook were a publisher, upholding the findings of the New South Wales Court of Appeal. The appeal judges had found that the media companies facilitated and encouraged the posting of comments by third parties on articles made available on their public Facebook pages. In doing so, the media companies participated and were instrumental in bringing about publication of allegedly defamatory matter, irrespective of whether others also participated in the publication

This decision may mean that any social media website can be sued in defamation as a publisher over any offensive or damaging comments posted by readers and contributors. Potentially, this means that moderation of every post will have to take place before it is published or alternatively that no third party comment will be invited.

So far, the major social media sites like Facebook, Twitter and the like have strongly resisted being tagged as publishers. They have maintained that they merely provide a platform to facilitate comment and discussion : all that may be about to change in Australia at least.

Watch this space as further clarification on this majority High Court decision takes place and the full implications on the implied right to freedom of speech are explored : ironically The Conversation a site where you would normally expect reasoned academic discussion have already decided that this subject is too hot to handle.

Interesting times !

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63 comments

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  1. New England Cocky

    Hmmmmm ….. Another step in the construction of the Australian Police State by the COALition wanting to cling to power after the 2021/2022 feral elections to avoid facing a Federal ICAC too explain their corruption of the Australia we used to know.

  2. Williambtm

    Thank you, Terence, I wonder if this website with all of its truthful comments relating to Scatmo can be reborn as a people’s page leased out to its members’ authors, journalists, and its comment submitters?
    In other words. no longer the flag-ship currently known as the AIM, perhaps a name change E.G. Talking Heads Bulletin Board?

    Whether the AIM will be targeted by the L/NP SWAT Team or Special Operations Group (SOG) remains to be seen?

    The Australian Commonwealth Constitution permits a person the right to free speech, though it does not refer to a collation of articles, comments, and generally shared opinions, my hope is maybe such a bulletin board will not fit into the spectrum as a publication.

    Whether or not Michael may have reservations about the implied non-editor/owner, this is for Michael to ponder over, the latest High Court Decision is not an easy egg to crack, however, terminologies relating to a freelance bulletin could possibly defray the collective term of a publisher?

    According to Michael West, (he an adjunct professor of investigative journalism) and a clever bloke, his first thoughts may suggest this High Court labeling perspective could be up for challenge via our constitution.

    On the other hand, it may be too soon to run around like Chicken Little with his notion that the sky was falling down?

    Michael West per a comment on Twitter had made a passing reference that it may be the death knell of Australia’s Independent editor/publisher/owner of their websites.

    A bothering fact is that this bunch of L/NP hucksters carry on as though the use-by date on our constitution has suddenly been classified as out of date?
    Methinks a referendum may be necessary to revoke the L/NP from any and all election participation, effectively squashing the lot of ’em as stink bugs?

    I foresee a round table of Australia’s independent news and opinions may be on the cards.

  3. Josephus

    Thank you for this information Terence. I recall reading the Australian some time ago out of curiosity and finding its online version had a reader advocating murdering members of the legal, non violent party I belong to. I was and remain distressed that this sometimes respectable newspaper allowed the comment to appear in print.

  4. GL

    Another knife in the rapidly running out of room back of democracy courtesy of the LNP and RWNJ’s. Anyone else get the feeling that Rupert the Ghoul is most likely one of the main drivers of the hearse making it’s way to the not quite dead body?

  5. Keitha Granville

    Seems like censorship by stealth. Is this Communist China and we haven’t been told yet?

  6. Michael Taylor

    Comments on this site have always been moderated and comments which have been considered offensive have been deleted. Serial offenders are blocked from commenting at all.

    On occasions some offensive comments have slipped through, but these have been deleted when eventually found.

    We attempt to provide a balance while encouraging robust debate, and not allowing these to become personal attacks.

  7. Harry Lime

    Governments like the Liar’s are shit scared of the truth because they are corrupt to the bone,and will always take the fascist route to keep them farting through silk.The time has well and truly come to rid the country of these shills and crooks.

  8. Kathryn

    This appalling decision is an AFFRONT to free expression and free speech – TWO absolutely INTEGRAL elements of a free democracy! Once again this is undeniable PROOF that Morrison is a SPECIAL KIND OF WICKEDNESS! This self-serving, sanctimonious hypocrite is nothing more than a pompously arrogant, autocratic DICTATOR who is tearing down EVERYTHING Australians value which now includes our democracy! By introducing these appalling regulations, they are using veiled threats of prosecution against Facebook, Twitter, et al – under the guise of jumped-up accusations of slander – to FORCE these sites to vet, censure and control what we, the citizens of Australia, say! The LNP are now FORCING these sites to control us ON THEIR BEHALF! In other words, they are using FEAR OF PROSECTION and litigative BULLYING to DELEGATE the undemocratic censure and control over what citizens say about the political parasites and vermin in the LNP! What this amounts to is that Morrison is now slowly turning this nation into a FASCIST STATE which makes him an incredibly malignant and dangerous type of sociopath to have at the helm of our nation right now! Like most corrupt, right-wing extremist regimes around the world, the LNP believe that when they finally CONTROL what people hear and see, they can and will CONTROL the people!

    How BAD, how CORRUPT, how OVERBEARING and how DICTATORIAL does this terrifying, smirking psychopath, Morrison, have to get before the Labor Opposition step up and insist that the useless, overpaid Governor General do his job and DISMISS the Morrison/Dutton version of the LNP which is truly the worst, most depraved, corrupt, self-serving and dangerously undemocratic regime in living memory? If there was EVER a government that THOROUGHLY deserves INSTANT DISMISSAL, it is this one!

    It is a sad reflection on our nation that we now have a Federal Police force which, under the dictatorial control of the LNP, is now more and more starting to resemble a newly-formed branch of Morrison’s SS. With the LNP State police and Morrison’s FP in control, combined with the malevolent support of the lying, conniving Murdoch press, the failed marketeer and bone-idle Sloth Morrison is now EMBOLDENED to do WHATEVER he likes WHENEVER he likes without consequence! Tragically, for Australia, this abuse of power by a bullying tyrant who ticks every box as a megalomaniacal narcissist INCLUDES muzzling free speech, censuring public debate, arresting Australian citizens who choose to protest or loudly condemn the LNP’s ongoing and escalating corruption and depravity and obliterating ANYTHING that in any way presents the appalling fascists in the LNP in a justifiable bad light! Never forget that complete CONTROL OVER THE PRESS and what citizens can hear and see, is exactly HOW Hitler rose to power – the parallels cannot be overlooked particularly when one realises that Morrison ALSO exhibits the shocking ability to BLAME everyone for his own ineptitude, attack and vilify anyone and everyone who is seen as vulnerable, victimise defenceless asylum seekers and target pensioners and anyone on welfare. The fact is that all of these vicious traits cannot conceal the level of hubris and startling hypocrisy by the Morrison government who have spent DECADES character-assassinating, slandering and defiling the reputations and character of members of the Opposition (particularly their appalling misogynistic attacks against Julia Gillard), The Greens and anyone standing up against the LNP’s corruption and total inability to lead with any level of integrity or credibility!

    Herr Morrison and the blood-curdling psychopath, Herr Peter Dutton, were insignificant out in the REAL world but, alas, their warped delusions of importance and ability to treacherously backstab their own colleagues (with Morrison’s ruthless betrayal of Michael Towke and Malcolm Turnbull), saw them rise up through the ranks of the worst government in living memory, like faecal matter in a polluted pond! NOW, we have these intolerable, truly dangerous fascists – hiding behind a thin cloak of sanctimonious bible-thumping hypocrisy – introducing laws and regulations that will, indirectly, stifle free speech and our rights, as citizens of Australia, to justifiably CONDEMN, criticise and bring attention to the rising level of unspeakable self-serving corruption, misogyny, callous inhumanity and depravity exhibited by the LNP over the last eight years!

    Can it get worse? You bet! History has shown that DEMOCRACY is NOT taken in one foul swoop, it is removed piece by piece in tiny, little incremental steps and eight years ago, that gormless, swaggering and incoherent misogynist, Tony Abbott, made moves to start chipping away at our democracy! The terrifying thing now is that these new threats against free speech and expression should be a RED FLAG WARNING that this conniving tin-pot dictator, Morrison, is now DETERMINED to finish the job!

  9. BB

    Insidiously does the mindless beast seek to enslave us. Australians asleep when voting, duped by duplicitous RW dark forces. So easily lost, visons, dreams of freedom, they have been squandered by greed & selfish narrow minded religious philistines. Who amongst us have forgotten Bob Dylan’s song, “The Times They Are A-Changin’,” and now the song cries out once more. https://youtu.be/TlPV4wtZ6HE

  10. skip

    Well gee whizzee folks! Stralya a ‘democracy’???? hello!!! once a free continent of many, but then came the PENAL COLONY European extraction machine with its smallpox, whips, guns, massacres.

    Now we have:

    Last week, the Australian Government created its own latest version of unchecked power, only this time it’s facilitated by technology, when it passed a law called the “the Surveillance Legislation Amendment (Identify and Disrupt) Bill 2020”.

    You probably haven’t heard of it. They didn’t want you to. The media was suspiciously quiet.

    This law now allows The Australian Federal Police (and others) to access any online account you have. They can see, modify, even delete your emails, your social media, and any online account if it’s considered a “threat”. They can post on your account pretending to be you. But it’s not just you – everything your kids do online is now at their fingertips. Every private exchange with your therapist, evey private message, everything that lives on your digital devices is at their fingertips.

    Manal Al-Sharif: Australia’s new surveillance laws remind me of home

  11. leefe

    Australia already had possibly the most stringent defamation laws in the so-called First World. This just adds to the gag.

  12. Mark

    So a decision is made by a Judge in the New South Wales Supreme Court which is then upheld in the New South Wales Court of Appeal followed by a further unsuccessful appeal to the High Court by a five to two majority and it’s all somehow Morrison’s (and Dutton’s) fault. At least in the view of some.

    Guess the concept of the Separation of Powers made popular by French philosopher Charles de Montesquieu isn’t well understood. Even the bastardized version we have here in Australia still puts some distance between Morrison et al and the Judiciary – in this instance.

    Having publishers responsible for what remains on their platform(s) has some democratic attractions. And as pointed out in The Conversation

    from the perspective of someone suing, it might not be worth going after an individual social media user or a troll, especially if they are using a pseudonym. A plaintiff is more likely to want to go after the media company itself as the publisher, with their deeper pockets

    https://theconversation.com/high-court-rules-media-are-liable-for-facebook-comments-on-their-stories-heres-what-that-means-for-your-favourite-facebook-pages-167435

    One of the real problems we have in Australia (and elsewhere) is the avenues those who hold the reins of power can use to outsource responsibility. It not only applies to the private sector (see Uber et al) but also to the public sector (via the Subsidiarity concept) and the rise of the Expert (see how the Covid-19 political problems are being managed via ‘expert’ opinion).

    The times are achanging. And not necessarily for the better.

  13. GL

    Skip,

    “The media was suspiciously quiet.”

    Strange, I read about it in The Guardian, 26 August –

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/26/tony-abbott-and-kevin-rudd-could-be-spied-on-by-asio-under-new-laws-heres-why

    Even sky news mentioned it –

    https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/senate-passes-legislation-to-allow-police-to-neutralise-criminals-on-the-dark-web/video/cf0acc2ebc6fd4c021081ac5e4c97640

    Well, shock, horror, even news.com.au mentioned it, sort of –

    https://www.news.com.au/national/senate-passes-legislation-to-allow-police-to-neutralise-criminals-on-the-dark-web/video/cf0acc2ebc6fd4c021081ac5e4c97640

    I guess that puts paid to your nonsense comment, “The media was suspiciously quiet.”

  14. Andrew J. Smith

    Now we have the situation that robust arguments and freedom of speech could potentially be defamatory comments, hence, any comments are to be avoided.

    However, this seems to fly in the face of comments or campaigning of former AG Brandis several years ago about the absolute need and right for ‘freedom of speech’?

    Looking another way many of our ‘commissioner’ class e.g. senior corporates/public servants, MPs or Ministers, judiciary etc. lack skills of digital literacy so difficult to understand how they could have any expert insight into such matters nowadays.

    Worse, like elsewhere, not just journalists or outlets, but normal citizens who are targeted with defamation suits, often mischievous e.g. ‘SLAPS strategic lawsuit against public participation’ (City of London courts are being used by parties on cases with no link to the UK but many willing prosecution lawyers), to shut down informed analysis that may reflect badly on a regime and its allies; a sure sign of autocracy or cowed society sleep walking…..

  15. george theodoridis

    From Brandis’ “we have a right to be bigots, you know?” to this!
    I feel Rousseau’s chains, tightening all around me, the fascula of the fascists cracking ever more fiercely across my back and power becoming more centralised no different to that power applied by totalitarian regimes.
    Henceforth, we cannot utter the crap condemnations against China or Russia or North Korea.
    If this High Court directive is made enforceable, Australia will be far worse a totalitarian State than these three. It will be a silent land where, like the field animals, stay obsequious at their “job.”

    Nothing declares brutality more than the silencing of human voices.

    And the appropriation of Justice by the rich and powerful. The poor have bugger all hope of employing one of those “lawyers” to defend them. “Lawyers” (in inverted commas because they make their own laws so as to enhance their hold on power and to make more bulge to their wallets.

    And I am sure it will begin in the classrooms, this unjust legality. Children will not be allowed to speak their minds; and in the homes where parents must be careful what they say to their children, lest the children, unwittingly betray them in the classroom or in their “personal and imaginative” essays.

    This is the squeezing out and the draining of optimism from the heart of humanity.

    Bastards!

  16. george theodoridis

    But I am hopeful!
    I take heart from what had happened to another, an ancient leader. Pericles, the golden boy of the Athenian leadership, the golden mouth of Athenian oratory, introduced to the newly found Democracy the law that women, too must be Athenian citizens for their children to also be considered citizens. He proposed this law to the Parliament and the Parliament being persuaded by his golden oratory -an no doubt by his shining helmet which he wore constantly- passed it and made it law.

    Pericles was satisfied until, on his way home he realised that his consort, Aspasia, was a foreigner and thus a non-citizen! The blood ran cold in his veins as the poets would say and so he rushed back to Parliament and tried to reverse that decision. This time his oratory and his helmet had the effect of getting the 6000 or so men present, roll on the floor with laughter, as the FB posters would put it. Pericles’ consort could never be his wife and when he dropped dead -not long after that, due to the devastating plague that befell Athens, Aspasia would receive no help from the Athenian State.

    Euripides made a point of showing just how nasty Pericles citizenship law was by writing his “Medea,” another foreign woman, married to a Greek, Jason, killed her own children as a way of saving them from the bitter xenophobia that they’d have to face, once she left Corinth.

    I take some heart from this event, hoping that those who bring about such obnoxious, anti-humane laws, will be bitten in the bum by those very laws. By the way, anyone heard anything from the ALP?

    Anything of substance? No, I didn’t think so.

    That’s why calls for them to unite with the Greens give me a chilling spine. I hope that the Greens never join them, as a coalition partner or as anything more adhesive. They should only vote similarly when the legislation proposed is humane, rather than to favour the corporations and the fascists. Let’s have some party distant from the duopoly of fascism that rules us now.

  17. wam

    great stuff, cuckoo, Should mean publishers suing writers for what they print? Whatever, it is former lying lawyers making work for themselves and current lying lawyers. Seems like: “scummo has control of both houses, for the cost of a periodic inducement.” could be an offence? Such legislation institutes a far right wing labor and ABC hating organisation in charge of controlling social interaction. Any journalist will hesitate before reading ASIO preread emails much less using information from them??
    ps agree with you george for labor to join with extremists would be a disastrous decision.

  18. GL

    Modelling! Shmodelling! Gold Standard Gladys’s modelling says it’s going to peak in a week or so, “Oh no, I must start backing off then because her modelling is stronger than me,” says Covid. Nature doesn’t work that way.

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/australia-news-live-nsw-covid-19-cases-continue-to-grow-as-state-ramps-up-vaccination-measures-sharp-increase-in-infections-in-victoria-20210909-p58qbk.html

    No more Gladys giving daily press conferences? Seems more like running away…

  19. BB

    The only way out of this political quagmire, this terrible mess of censorship and curtailing our “freedoms” that we now face, that we are now in IS unfortunately as it may seem to some, as unpalatable as it is for some, IS for all the Independents and the Greens to join forces with Labor to end the reign of the RW dark forces of evil.

    Sure Labor lost its way in many ways, sucked in by the neo con, lies, trickery by those with wealth, trickle down bullshit, but Labor is trying to come back to a middle road and sensible Australians need to help those within the Labor party to achieve this.

    Wake up folks, all you who decry Labor as being the enemy, for there is NO OTHER CHOICE, got that, there is no other way for Australia to rid itself of the crooked Liberals, that’s reality. So quit with denigrating Labor, pouring cold water on Labor, for all you are doing is playing into the hands of the L/NP, propagating their negative inhumane propaganda for them, that’s just being bloody dumb, like the kid who didn’t want the last cookie because it was broken, FFS!

    The Liberals are too far gone down the road of authoritarianism, for them there is no turning back, they want unlimited power.

    But Labor still has many with morals and ethics, they are after all born from the days of unions, and Australians need to wake up and support the only hope we have left.. Labor. For to do otherwise is to give in to the L/NP, allow them carte blanche to fuck us all! If the L/NP win a 4th term then we ain’t seen nothing yet. They will pass many more harsher draconian laws entrenching themselves in power and they will fuck us all well and truly for decades to come, way back past 1984. beyond into the nightmare of Soylent Green. Folks this is how the fascists get into power. Wake up and wake up now, don’t be fooled, vote for Labor!

    I’m not exactly enamoured with Labor at this time either ok, but they are the only chance Australia has at present, so wake up!

    First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a socialist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

    Martin Niemöller

  20. Henry Rodrigues

    The latest is, Gladys gold standard shagbag bin chicken has decided to scrap the daily 11.am Covid briefing. The news was getting worse and Scummo was getting nervous at the numbers , so what’s the next action ? Just don’t tell and no none will know.

    Does Murdoch’s maggots subscribe to censorship of vital community news now ? Where are all the media whores and harlots, no protests, no shrieks of rage ?

    Bin chicken knows which side of her bread is buttered and the word has come from high, no more telling the truth. The LNP in its element.

  21. george theodoridis

    BB. Love your optimism BB but hate your blindness as to where Labor is now and where it’s likely to be in the future, whether it’s elected or not. The party has, as you say, lost its way, good and proper, I’d say and found that the Right way is right for them.

    It serves them better than the Left by asking them to do little more than make the odd appearance here and there but change nothing, regarding their lucrative sinecure. Who, among them has any memory of, or feeling towards their Union roots?

    And if there are some, I don’t hear the sighs of nostalgia rising from their heart.

    The next leader of this party will be Kris Keneally. She is indubitably and irredeemably of the Christian Right as was Julia Gillard and a whole lot more of them. I see no declarations coming from the mouths of that lot that will appease my concerns regarding its vertiginous slide towards fascism and it would have to make some powerful -and very painful to them, unpalatable, in fact- statements about fairness, justice, egalitarianism and compassion before I give them any credit of being a viable socialist, helpful to the general public, party.

    All of them are just too rich and too comfortable as they are, thank you very much, and wealth and comfort are just too powerful incentives not to rock the boat. In short, they are barely distinguishable from the LNP.

    The Greens, however -and I must add here that I never lionise a politician or a party; it’s absolutely the wrong thing to do- will, if they can get an adequate number of reps, will temper the excesses of the duopoly and that’s why I’d forget about the ALP for now and concentrate on them.

    The duopoly has had it too good for just too long. Time to kick the traitors up the bum and teach them about integrity and social duty.

  22. BB

    george
    I’m not blind as to what Labor are, and at present they are our only hope.

    IMHO you are much more blind as to thinking that the Greens can temper the power of the L/NP.

    So we will have to agree to disagree. ok, but really that’s a cop out, as you know deep down I am right, and I’m past being diplomatic on this topic of who to vote for.. This is not a joke anymore.
    Australia is looking down the barrel of a loaded L/NP gun!

    The Greens sadly are still an absolutist party, and have lost their green roots, they are unable to compromise or make a deal.

    They have constantly squabble with each other since Bob left, so childish..

    You use the word if..

    I once read a joke about the word if : It’s the longest word in the dictionary.

    if if if…

    if the greens can get an adequate number of reps..

    Love your optimism george, would be great, but it’s more misplaced than mine, Buckley’s is the reality..

    Meanwhile the fuse is burning, the L/NP time bomb is ticking away, 100 seconds to midnight…

    These elections are not the time to be wishing and relying on IF

    IT’S TIME AGAIN!

  23. george theodoridis

    I’m afraid, it’s the old teacher in me: reward a bully for being a bully and you’ll encourage him to remain a bully and develop his bullying ways. Labor is behaving like traitors. Encourage them and they’ll stay like that, even develop their traitorous ways.

    No idea what is an “absolutist party” and how they fit that nomenclature. Listen to them and listen to the vacuous utterances of the ALP; compare the two. My hearing tells me I’d rather vote for them than for the ALP. Nothing but nothing of significance will change if the ALP gain govn’t. Something might well change if the Greens get a few more MPs.

    And yes, you’re right, if everyone had your attitude towards the Greens, that “if” would mean “Buckley’s” Happily, I see, hear and smell a change in the air. The young folks have sharper, less polluted senses. Some of the oldies, who have seen this game played out again and again have also switched. As Einstein said, doing the same thing repeatedly wil;l not change the outcome. In fact, with the ALP, we’ve been encouraging them with every election.

    As to their squabbling! Please! The ALP, ie, the three-factions-party, (six if you calculate them with the State lot) has replaced its every door with a revolving one and they’re all spinning wildly!

  24. george theodoridis

    BB, wake me up when you see a Jacinda Adern or a Jeremy Corbyn among that lot!
    We are back in the pre-Whitlam days, with our mates. Do nothing, squabble about leadership. Above all, stay Christian!

  25. Fred

    George The current government has achieved so little in the last decade, apart from reduction of our rights, etc. (ref the Crickey.com shame list), that even if Labor did absolutely nothing for 3-4 years, we would still be better off than continuing being dragged further down the toilet by the LNP. If you have a choice between “a bit iffy” and pure evil – just choose “iffy”.

  26. BB

    Absolutism… The holding of absolute principles in political, philosophical, or theological matters.
    or to put it in the vernacular… Pig Headed!

    I don’t think that Labor is a lost cause … yet… but I do see that they have problems.
    But nothing that compares to the nasty crap that is the L/NP… eh…
    However I do not see how any other party can gather enough votes to topple the L/NP aside from Labor.
    So maybe you could enlighten me? But leave out the ifs, buts and maybes ok..
    The Greens having some more reps would be great, but they are not able to get above 10% of the vote.. Why is that?
    And what I mean by an absolutist party is that the Greens have not yet learned to compromise their policies, good as they are.
    They have to learn work with Labor to achieve any changes.. There is an old English proverb… Slowly, slowly catchee monkey.
    One cannot make substantive changes from the outside, one needs to make changes by being on the inside.
    Then the Greens can start to be a better influence, but when they insist on their way or the highway, well it ends up the highway.

    But at this rate with everyone bagging Labor, because they’ve strayed from the path, we’ll end up with the L/NP in a 4th term…
    Is that what you want George?

    I suggest it’s time we all wake up now and quit with the wishful thinking. It’s dangerous and will achieve sweet FA.

    “Will humans learn from history?”
    Maybe I should re-phrase that to “Are humans able to learn from history?”
    Judging by the last few dozen millenniums the chances would seem rather bleak.

    How many more terms of the L/NP can Australia tolerate before the social fabric is irrevocably compromised?
    How much more of the Commonwealth can Australia afford to have stolen by the L/NP and it’s “mates”?

    Well George maybe we will just have to agree to disagree then, as we see things from a different perspective.
    I do think though that even if we have different views we are in the same book, same chapter, if not on the same page…🙂

  27. BB

    Oh and BTW George, FYI..
    I have always given the Greens my 2nd preference, I have always supported the Greens Party since they became a party!
    Labor gets my 1st. I suggest it’s the sensible thing to do. The other way is ok as well.
    then Independents, but it’s a bit of a minefield, so be sure to check them out, there are a few RW wolves in sheep’s clothing.

    I have always had Green ideals since before the Franklin dam protest.
    And not forgetting it was Hawke and the Labor government that intervened and the project was abandoned in 1983.

    BUT whichever way one votes just be sure to put the L/NP LASTon your ballot paper at the next Federal election.

    As Fred says just choose “iffy”
    Thank goodness the USA chose Biden rather than Trump…!!!

  28. wam

    BB, Don’t question the LNP and blindly accept the greens based on evidence over 50 years old.
    I and my family (lived in tassie 62-80 and trekked to lake peddar)supported the greens throughout the 60s and 70s and 80s but these ideals are long gone and the new ones are untrustworthy and hidden despite the extremists showing senile boobie up front.
    The only party which can rule is labor forget the extremists they are leeches on labor. The bandit has a pragmatic plan and cares not about any collateral damage in achieving his goal ETA end of the decade. The10% are blinded by his rhetoric and his silent wrecking of labor may garner a few more. His last plan made money(an extra 50%) but killed any power in parliament. This banditary evokes memories of his blackmailing slime act of 2010 which like boobie’s and christine’s vote for the rabbott the simpleton greens ignore and the clever few rationalise for the sheep to bleat.

  29. BB

    @wam

    I’m sure much of what you have to say is quite interesting and worth reading but really I am fast reaching the point where I can’t be bothered anymore. It’s just too complicated to try and decipher what you are actually saying. Are you not able to use straight forward language? Is that not possible for you? There is no need to be so “cryptic”, as it distorts what you are writing and tries to infer maybe a hidden or ambiguous meaning. You know what you mean, others may as well, who knows, but often I do not. 😬

    extremists showing senile boobie up front.
    forget the extremists they are leeches on labor.
    The bandit has a pragmatic plan >>>> etc etc….
    This banditary evokes memories of his blackmailing slime act
    which like boobie’s and christine’s vote for the rabbott
    sheep to bleat

    and on it goes, really it just becomes, well to be blunt, boring..
    Sorry I don’t mean to be rude.

    Maybe English is not your 1st language? Just asking ok..
    At least that would explain all these confused ‘funny’ terms.

  30. George Theodoridis

    Thank you BB.
    I have translated a hell of a lot very difficult ancient Greek but wam’s post defies my linguistic abilities.
    She obviously thinks, as you do, that Labor is the saviour of this nation, which i take as her and your right to do so but all the weird stuff about extremists and suchlike in the Greens, is a salad of paranoia. At least to my way of thinking.

    Until the late 80’s i was like you both. In fact in 81 and 85 i stood as a candidate for vic ALP Balwyn and Kew.
    Also, until then a chairman of the Kew Branch. I knew the ALP very well. A number of top figures met at my house.
    The Keating-Hawke combo was discussed in my presence by some of these eminent people.

    This, current ALP is a totally different party, though i daresay, the rot emerged with that combo.
    Education was taking over again by the Right Wing, Medibank also began to be defunded or “adjusted” the unions were dethroated, and the great corporations were bloated.

    And that was that, so far as the Labor Party was concerned.

    Since then i’ve joined no other party and expect all of them, including the Greens to eventually be infiltrated by the Gerry Harvey and Gins R lovers and to corrupt it beyond recognition. My affection for parties and their leaders, therefore is tentative. It’s there until they are polluted by the same, foul views.

  31. BB

    Aye George. Well there ya go, we are in 100% agreement over wam’s linguistic codes..
    Interesting that you think wam’s gender is female, I have always thought masculine. I really hadn’t thought too much either way.
    But whichever, I too am simply unable to really understand her/his code, so pleased to read I am not alone. 😀
    Yep I glean at times some small bits of comprehension of what wam is saying which seem ok, but overall it goes over my head.

    Ok, well I am not exactly enamoured by Labor either or their turn to the right over the last few decades, and do not feel that Hawke was the cool dude that he made himself out to be, but that pragmatism played a large role, a shame, but those were the times, the neo con was in full gallop.
    However what alternative does Australia have at present, this is the crux of the matter. I wish it was not so dire. But it is.
    I am sure there are also many youth in the Labor movement that would like to see a return to the union legacy, just as the winds of change are also sweeping the Greens.
    I do admire Greens, but feel that some are not as green as they could be.. No different really to many in Labor being suss.

    But I see no such winds at all with the Liberals. Once a Liberal one is sucked in for life with selfish and greedy thoughts.
    The Liberal Modus Operandi is predominantly Do unto others before they do you & Never give anyone an even break.

    I emigrated to Aust in 1972, I’m originally from Chile, I remained stuck in the UK being there at school during those awful years.
    Returning to Chile was not an option for me, my entire family had fled to south Spain, and I fancied the adventure of Australia.
    So I am quite well versed in many political events, but I can’t say I grew up with Labor or had the top brass chat at my home.
    I just gravitated to the left of politics, whom I saw as having far more qualities of humanity than those of the right.

    But back to the present, what alternative is there but to have some faith that Labor can reclaim some of it’s egalitarian roots, for there are no such roots with the Liberals, bastards one and all of them.

    So such is the conundrum we are in at present, so I am sticking with Labor at this time. There’s no viable alternative at present.
    I would love to see the Greens become a force indeed yes, but at present that is a movement in the making, it’s still gestating.
    Same goes for many Independents, of which the Liberals, (mainly), are trying to whittle down with new laws of membership.

    I have never been a member of any Party until a few months back when I lent my support to FIN and joined them. I confess.
    But that’s as far as I will go, I am feeling my age at times now and in retirement wish to potter in peace in my garden.

    World wide parties and their leaders are all being infiltrated by RW scum, and being polluted with foul views. It’s a cancer.
    But burying our heads in the sand is not the answer is it, not that I think you are, but many are, fed up with all the skulduggery.

    In fact George I think that all politics and parties should in essence be simply one giant bureaucratic office with ZERO power.
    Power belongs in the hands of the people for the people and by the people, so you see George, I’ll always be a dreamer.

  32. george theodoridis

    Anyone who saw The Insiders this morning would see why I am reluctant to give the ALP the messiah status.
    Kris Keneally is heading for the PM’s job and her faction -the Right- is so anxious to get her there immediately that they’ve bashed and absolutely perfect candidate of the Lower House in the head to make her vacate that seat, for Mz Keneally. This sort of thing has been happening ever since my days in the party. Factional thugs are very powerful; and they spend more time conspiring the rise or the demise each other, often the best candidate losing.
    Keneally is of the religious right and she’s a nutter when it comes to the policies that she will try to push. Like Gillard, (I wouldn’t vote for gay marriages because my mother is a conservative Christian) Keneally, too will suppress anything that smacks of progress or equal rights if it doesn’t fit with her religious beliefs.
    But she IS pretty and she IS articulate. So, it’s OK to push people out of the way to get her in there so that this deeply flawed party will win. Why should it win? Not because Australia needs them but because there are lucrative jobs at stake. The interests are selfish.

    I was also brought to near bowel content ejection at the sight of Tanya. Her make up (mask) and her fashionable clothes (costume) indicated to me, in no uncertain terms that all these politicians think that politics is a stage and the job of actors; and on a stage the worse actors are given the best masks and costumes. Always! They are the instruments of approval and impression.

  33. george theodoridis

    But I was very much heartened by the commentary from the studio. Can someone tell me what Nikki is trying to do with he mask? She’s making a liar out of me!

  34. BB

    George your comments, observations are valid, BUT really they are negative, unhelpful and unrealistic in these troubled times. You suggest no alternative way Australia can rid itself of this present massively destructive and crooked RW L/NP government!

    And nobody is suggesting to give the ALP a messiah status, ok, but to give them a fair go…! It’s time we are rid of the L/NP!

    Have you forgotten exactly how Morrison got to be the member of Cooke, and then became the PM? And who Towke was?

    Scott John Morrison: Where the bloody hell did he come from?

    The future belongs to the young so I will suggest we oldies start to consider them rather than constantly bagging LABOR!

    IT’S TIME again!

    PS… The Insiders, oh please don’t make me laugh, they are piss weak and full of bs these days!

  35. george theodoridis

    But I have suggested an alternative: Vote Greens 1 and ALP 2. Let the ALP know that we do not approve of neither their behaviour nor their policies. The ALP HAS been treat as Jesus, though it is nothing of the sort. Rather it should be treated like Judas.

    But the beautification, the masquerades and the “pretty words” have hindered all that. I don’t want to get rid of these obnoxious, vile thugs, by replacing them with people with the same bag of character traits. No point in that.

    The moment we use sentences like “they are the only alterntive” we give them messianic status.

    None at all. The same deprecating cartoons that are sketched about the LNP will be drawn many times over about this bunch of hollow people.

    How “fair” is a “fair go?” I say I’m giving this bundle of vacuous politicians just the right amount of “fair go.” Let them earn more if they want it but if people can’t see just how right wing they are now, then they will see it when they get elected.

    And by all means, let them get elected so long as they have a strong opposition, one that has virtue in its opposition and not just barks from a toothless mouth like the ALP. We have to agree to disagree, BB.

  36. BB

    George
    You’re not putting the msg Greens 1, ALP 2, first in your comments, but giving the impression you think the ALP is not worthy..

    However valid your criticisms of the ALP are, (and I agree with many of them)…

    NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO BE VOICING THEM BEFORE THE ELECTIONS… Do you not understand that!!!

    After the elections, which all honest and aware folk hope and trust that it’s the ALP that win, then I will stand shoulder to shoulder with you in keeping the ALP honest and for them to lift their game in a very candid fashion!!!

    BUT all you are achieving now with your constant belittlements of LABOR is to encourage RW trolls!! Is that your intention?

    It’s got way beyond a question of we will have to agree to disagree. George, I thought you had more foresight! Surely… People listen to you, your words influence people, so please start using them wisely, at the appropriate time..

    Ok that’s enough from me, I have voiced my opinion, I do wish you a pleasant day, and hope for an ALP win..😄😄😄

  37. Jack Cade

    George, I’ve never been able to understand how any labour party can have a right wing. And I don’t see being a ‘Christian’ as being somehow admirable.
    People who pray to the ‘son’ of a god devised by a tribe of quite unpleasant desert wanderers seem to overlook the way their shared deity took no notice of the prayers of upwards of 6.000,000 of his ‘chosen people’ during 1939-45 and, presumably, the preceding 1938 years.

  38. Fred

    George… As BB says “It’s Time again”. Even if Labor was as bad as the LNP, we still need to change. The first term after a swap of either the major parties is a settling in period where they listen to the electorates. The second term is where they become emboldened and the rorting/corruption/etc. seriously kicks in. Third term and up = they have to go.

  39. George Theodoridis

    BB:
    “Now is not the time!”
    Delicious! So delicious it has been uttered a trillion times! The status quo remains unshaked and unshakeable!
    An occasional session of scrutineering will tell you what happens with our preferential voting:
    If the number one doesn’t get enough votes to win, those votes go to number 2 so in a seat held by Labor it is highly likely they’ll win.
    But the numbers will be there for the post mortem analysts and they will reveal that more people are disenchanted by Labor.
    Labor never pays attention to that of course because they are a bunch of deluded, smug and lazy men and women.
    But, if the greens become stronger for one reason or another, even by a single added member, their voting strength on the floor of parliament becomes worrisome to those who bring in extreme legislation. Their vote will be needed to get that extreme legislation through.
    BB, we need to smash this brutal wall of duopoly where crap gets through and decent, progressive, pro-demos policies are blocked.

    You obviously have not noticed the true reason the ALP-LNP politicians vote for whatever they vote. They do not want to rock the boat of parliament do that they can remain in those obscenely lucrative and insanely financially rewarding jobs. And THAT’S what they care about!

    As for the Insiders, it’s a show, by far more commonly a right wing platform but not their every syllable is crap. And i have a good enough bullshit meter to detect what is crap and what is not.
    I watch and listen to everything very carefully.
    I’ve been around in the guts of politicks to know the contents of this poisonous sausage are.
    This morning’s show for example had a great line up of people who were surprising honest and accurate.
    Watch it either on iview or, i think tomorrow.
    You might be surprised!

  40. George Theodoridis

    Fred, “it’s time” was a political slogan and nothing more.
    It was used by Gough.
    I don’t know if you’ve noticed but there is no Gough in this lot of ALP. On the contrary, it is this lot that has dismantled -discretely and glaringly- almost everything that Gough had brought in from health to Education, to Housing, to taxes to glueing our noses to the arse of the American Military.
    They don’t have to introduce the legislation, though they often did, just agree with the bastards across the bench and do so by uttering crap like, “when it comes to this legislation we are reading from the same page’ or “well, we’ll check the details first…” and then we’ll forget about it.

    The Parliament has become ghe church from which Jesus (in the christian mythology) got angry.
    Time for us to get angry, not after they win and rush to the pub for another lazy three years but now!

  41. BB

    DO NOT CHERRY PICK ME George! I really dislike people who play at being disingenuous!

    I too have been around a long time, and had my country of birth torn apart! I understand perfectly well, so do not assume!

    I wrote.. NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO BE VOICING THEM BEFORE THE ELECTIONS

    BEFORE THE ELECTIONS.. got that George, or does that part not fit with your narrative?

    Delicious eh, well George you are becoming condescending now..

    The Insiders has become a biased show, but you seem to prefer rose coloured glasses, your age maybe?

    I will repeat Gough’s simple message for those of us who still believe in HOPE

    IT’S TIME

    and definitely time for me to end pointless discussions with you… You can take a horse to water…………!!!!!

    bye George, I wish you well.

  42. Williambtm

    A great many comments submitted all have the one overriding theme, all we and the people of Our Australia desire the end of all things L/NP party that has proven to be dishonest, misleading, outright liars, thieving miscreants, and to quote the fact statement proffered by George Theodoridis, of “glueing our noses to the arse of the American Military.”

    Hence there is nothing of value that is currently, nor in the futurity, of benefit that is favoring the interests of the people in Australia.

    It is important that every person in this country must understand that the L/NP party has revealed itself as the most loathsome anti-the-people political party ever to throw its hat in the ring hoping against all odds to become an elected Australian leadership party.
    I have no squabbles relating to the general theme held in all the submitted comments, Though I will ask each of these fine-minded people, how can we as persons get this important message out into the pre “cut and thrust” era, that has since become an unwarranted impost, or be it the heavy burden now placed upon the backs of all of Australia’s people?
    Disingenuous lying f–k-heads must not be permitted ever again to become the ill-boding enemy of Australia’s people.

  43. Heirge theodoridis

    George theodoridis

    Let me put it as simply as i possibly can: the meaningful question is mot who should-form govn’t but how can we make sure that whoever forms govn’t is not corrupted, is not smug about making every disgusting law, that that what party of highly paid people does not introduce vulgar laws.

    The answer is to have as many voices in that Parliament, to have as many views heard and to have a true debate over every idea. What we have in the main now is two groups who in the most substantial and crucial policies they agree or mildly disagree, no matter the policy.

    The result will therefore alway will be the same. No progress at all where it matters. At the moment i see The Greens as that group of people who will form a block of numbers (remember, that’s the quintessence of Democracy, the numbers) that will mitigate the most loathesome policies introduced in that Parliament of money changers and money launderers.

    The word parliament means talking, discussing, debating. I see hardly any of it happening. Bring in some more antithetical “numbers” they are desperately needed. What we have now is a hidden dictatorship.

  44. George theodoridis

    Sorry but my first paragraph bas been mutilated by my iphone. A crap device for such uses.

  45. BB

    What does Australia really need to bring about an honest government?….. An honest and truthful Main Stream Media..

    Australia needs to outlaw media barons who control, distort information, starting with bastards like Murdoch, Costello, &co.

    At present we have a few Independents such as here, that only a few of us venture into, which is a very sad state of affairs.

    Only informed citizens can make an honest choice at the ballot box, and not be duped into voting against their better interests.

    Not until we have truth, honesty in the media, genuine journos who have morals, can we expect any honesty in governments!

    What we now have are honest folk & whistleblowers being prosecuted, jailed! Far-right authoritarian L/NP jack boots. Fascism!

    Australia is on the fat edge of dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, strong regimentation of society and economy.

  46. Kaye Lee

    I think we should all be putting our collective minds towards what sort of a republic we are going to be. We can make a total reset then. We don’t have to have a winner takes all model. We don’t have to have single representation. We can actually actively design a system that encourages co-operation rather than the ridiculous adversarial childish crap we put up with now. We don’t have to have a President. In Switzerland the Federal Council take turns being president and they have proportional representation. No more having the Nats getting more ministries than votes!!

    Queenie is getting on…..so should we.

  47. BB

    A Republic is a grand idea, would have my full support, indeed a full reset is what Australia needs. I hope such happens soon.

    Months ago I joined a party, 1st time ever, an emerging Independent party, FIN, (Federal ICAC Now). Members are needed. Australia needs ALL crooked politicians to be held accountable. Australians need a genuine honest ICAC with real TEETH! Please take the time to check them out. https://www.federalicacnow.org/

    It’s been painful reading about Australia’s involvement where the Australian Secret Intelligence Service (ASIS) worked closely with the CIA in the lead up to the coup d’état in Chile in September 1973. This terrible event tore my birth country apart.

    The Other 9/11: secrecy fight over Australian spies helping CIA overthrow Chile’s President

    Australians must not become complacent to the real danger the L/NP represents to our freedoms, our civil rights!

  48. george theodoridis

    A great article on the ALP over which I urge folks to cast an eye.

    The fact that it is a six-year old article changes nothing.

    It doesn’t tell the full story, of course because the full story is beyond the factions and in the hands of persuaders with powerful, bulging wallets and overweening hubris outside Parliament but Richard Willingham (State Political Correspondent) does give us some thumbline picture of the party.

    https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/sunday-explainer-the-factions-running-the-alp-20150619-ghryk0.html

  49. BB

    Ok I just read it, so what… What’s really your point George? You seem to have an axe to grind in regards to the ALP.
    Bringing up a 6 year old article has overtones of being somewhat desperate in an effort to impose a negative view?
    Yes most of us here know the ALP has problems, big deal.. get over it…
    No the ALP are not fucking perfect, far from it, BUT a dam sight better and far more honest than the L/NP will ever be!

    It’s Time we all got behind the ALP, now, be positive now, not a few weeks before elections.. ​

    I’m starting to suspect your main intention is to indeed cast aspersions on the ALP.
    Would that be a fair assessment George? ​

    Australia cannot afford another term of the L/NP.
    However much you feel the ALP is unworthy they are at present the only viable alternative. That is reality.

    The Greens are only a small part of the answer. An important one yes, but they are still only a fringe element.
    At present only 10% of voters agree with them, and that number may well decrease.

    And why haven’t you put up, say a similar 6 yr old link on how the L/NP is fucking up Australia for objective comparison?

    Here’s a good link, not a 6 year old article though, sorry, (not)..😄
    https://www.alp.org.au/

  50. George Theodoridis

    Aspersions? Why not criticisms? Why not an analysis of where this ALP is and where it’s heading and by its trajectory where it takes the aus people? This ALP stinks and if a lot of people allowed their nostrils to take in the air around this party they will not miss the stench. Unless of course their nostrils have been so conquered by the stench, have become so accommodating to that stench that they see nothing wrong with: -A population that now votes, not for minds but for celebrities and wannabe celebrities

    -An ALP that has completely abandoned the values of virtue and taken up the covetings of the LNP.

    -We now have, in effect a single party, a coalition that should be renamed the ALP/LNP. SInce their aims and policies in all substansive matters are identical. –

    A two-party system has NEVER, EVER functioned as Democracy, A system of Govn’t that was built by the Demos to serve the Demos, ie, the tax payers who fund their insanely lucrative life style, despite their hatred and disdain for the demos.

    -A democracy functions when the voices are many and are true participants of the Govn’t, as Aristotle would have it. Not by the a bunch of shaddowy, factional slithering snakes meeting in secret, in the darkest coves of Parliament, the cabinet, where, well distant from the demos, declare what should be made law and what shouldn’t.

    -The original Democracy, the original Parliament took place out in the open, where as many as 6000 men discussed a single proposal, to build more ships, or fortify the walls, or go to war. Any one of those 6000 men could get up and argue, out in the pen, in front of his fellow citizens. There were NO PARTIES, no “tricky sleaze bags” to pretend that they were there to “represent” the whole population of Athens. How far has this Democracy strayed from there? So what am I suggesting? I am suggesting that we need to add people into those halls of power and around it, so as to check.

    Something like the Spartan Ephors who checked the behaviour of the kings. A permanent ICAC of un-corrupted men and women. Those extra people in Parliament could well be a party, though not necessarily so.

    The Greens have uttered the right noises in a great many issues. Give them a few more members so that their votes can stop the most egregiously inhumane proposals. But it could also be a case of making it easy enough for individuals (Independents) to be elected. Right now the ALP/LNP has slithered into each others hole to form legislation to forbid any independents to enter the Parliament.

    If this isn’t an indication that both these so called parties are forming a clan of fascists of the worse order, a clan that will never be accountable on anything, if the stench of that move hasn’t reached your nostrils yet, than I really don’t know how much more powerful that stench needs to be to realise that we are voting for “pretty” thugs who have not the slightest will to work for us.

    As for the Greens, they have never taken a seat -so far as I can recall- from the ALP, so vote for them No1 and your beloved ALP No 2. If the Greens don’t get enough votes, those votes will get to next numerous party and if that happened to be the ALP, then the ALP will get those votes and win. I am sick of the relentless demolition of policies of virtue and the relentless flood of the nastiest, anti-humane policies coming from both these shoddy parties of charlatans.

    Wars -American wars- will go on unhindered, the cry, “Assange is Guilty” (Remember Gillard?) will continue to be blasted in our ear. “Israel has the right to defend itself” (remember Gillard?) and the cooings “Oh, you Americans, you can do anything” (Remember Gillard?) and other such vile utterances will simply go on. Is anyone really expecting the fate of the refugees will change with the change of govn’t? Is anyone really expecting the the Negative Gearing form of money laundering wil disappear? The funding of education, the tax system, the health, the treatment of women (remember Jenny Macklin and Gillard?)

    Those of you who will allow our nostrils to do their job, will smell even a lot more crap, dropped on us by the so called ALP. We lionise and idolise parties and people who have become are nothing more than self seeking, thieving, criminals.

    We have no party that we can lionise and no political person whom we can turn into idols. Linda Burney, perhaps and maybe one or two others, but the sooner we treat them with the contempt that they treat us, the quicker we’ll get out of the sewer of banality, mediocrity and slavery.

    Yes, I am highly irritated by our system of govn’t as it is and I’m hoping that some will try and remove the worst particles of the foul odour that has clogged this country’s political atmosphere!

  51. George Theodoridis

    Politicians have quite a lon time ago, reviewed their jobs. They have given themselves a new one, Remember the “new Julia?” well, every politician, except perhaps Linda and a couple more have given themselves a new identity. They are no longer politicians, since policies are determined by the shaddowy men and became stars of the stage. A stage with far brighter lime lights than the stage of Shakespeare even and the tome of their declamations are those of the English actors over a hundred years ago. Loud, pretentious pointless and turning a play into a circus.
    We need to get a new, a good Director. A supervisor, and let’s get the full compliment of actors rather than just a cupl to play all the roles.

  52. George Theodoridis

    John Button’s “what has America ever done for us?” still rings sweetly in the memory of my ears.
    So have the delightful homilies of Gough who brought our boys back home from Vietnam and Hawke’s welcoming the vietnames in huge numbers.

    How different is that Party now!
    I look through that gang and i can see no Ardern no one with the slightest wish to raise people out of poverty . No males, no females.
    One would swore one was stearing at a bunch a clowns looking for their circus.

    The only glimmer on their faces is that of the overshiny makeup and the only passion is to win another round of that lucrative sinecure.

  53. BB

    Why not criticisms? Because quite simply now that time is past. We’ve all had the last 6 years and more to criticise in!
    Now it’s time to stop with the criticisms and look to the future. Now all that criticisms achieve is to cast aspersions on the ALP!

    It’s NOT a good idea, with a biased MSM, controlled by Murdoch & the RW, they will jump on such aspersions of the ALP.

    But some still prefer aspersions, blinkers on. If the L/NP get in for a 4th term it will because some people continue to be negative and still put shit on the ALP. Unbelievable, the never ending extent that some people will go to, to prove they are always “right”. We need positive thoughts & vibes, new views to the future, hindsight is good, but there comes a time to stop.

    Some people seem incapable of moving forward and have to continually drag up the past, trying to find meaning in their narrow minded views, they have become philistines in their negativity, they continue to live in the past, and unfortunately end up so enmeshed in the past, stuck in the forest, they are totally unable to learn from the past, they can’t see the trees anymore, it’s just all a black and bleak landscape. And so history repeats itself. Time and time again humanity foolishly shows how easily fooled they become. We must never forget the past, we need to learn from it, but we also need to move on past it, otherwise it all remains a self fulfilling prophecy of doom, and afterwards, after new events of hope have fallen flat, these particular people cry out in their arrogance and ignorance… “I told you so, I have been proven right, but nobody would listen to me.”

    The future belongs to the youth, to the children of tomorrow, but rather than realise it’s time to let go the reins somewhat, some oldies cling on unable to let go, some oldies would rather say anything, do anything to remain as they think, relevant, grasping at straws rather than bowing out and seeking peaceful pastures! There’s more to life than always being “right”.

    There is a great deal of merit at times in some old sayings, “You can take a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink!”
    In the case of old and stubborn horses, well, forget it, there is only a snowball’s chance in an inferno!

    In any situation where there is half a chance of survival or no chance, I’ll take the half, only fools would choose otherwise!

    We can be very thankful a majority of Americans were awake and chose Biden… Just try and imagine if Trump had won..

    The ALP, not perfect, new things to learn, old things to unlearn, but still more than half a chance, so grab it with both hands.
    https://www.alp.org.au/

  54. George Theodoridis

    I’ve just shown you BB that you can grab anything you want with”both” hands but the ALP is not something you want to do that with.
    By all means grab it but also grab a back up with the other.
    Now is not the time is a bizarre and dangerous idea and i’ve also explained why that is.
    If now is the time for anything, after doing nothing long enough for this oarty to turn into a sack of rotten spuds, now is the time to let your nostrils suck in the stench of those rotten spuds, wake up and stop doing the same thing over and over over again. You know what a man far wiser than both of us once said about that
    Now is the time to breathe in deeply and see what smells are around. If you smell flowers then there’s something wrong with your olfactory nerves. Lethally so.
    Have a nice day in you idyllic environment.

  55. George Theodoridis

    BB
    And i’ll let your barrage of insults “go to the keeper” where they belong.
    Biden?
    If Biden wakes up tomorrow with another fluffy ball in his mouth and announces, “you know what? I was wrong to pull out of Afghanistan, now is not the time. We’re going back”, not matter which of these two gangs were the Govn’t, we’d be in there like dags hanging of a sheep’s bum, killing and being killed.

    Labor is not “perfect!”
    Shit ey?

    That’s the problem with lockdowns, one has nothing better to do but develop verbal diarrhoea!

  56. George Theodoridis

    BB
    I’ve made my thoughts clear and you’ve made your thoughts clear.either one of us is wrong or both of us are wrong but whoever makes the judgement i’d like to see the reasoning behind it.
    I’d like to see a debate rather than a slanging match between two stubborn men who keep putting one syllable after another in the same order hoping they form a more convincing argument.
    It’s a sordid waste of time.

  57. BB

    Well I gotta hand it to you, thanks for a really good belly laugh, you missed your true vocation George, your forte is stand up!

    George, you have shown me absolutely nothing of value, zero, fuck all, just silly ramblings and your would be “wisdom”.
    You have explained nothing but continue to fill your own thoughts with your own impoverished past use by date rhetoric.

    But oh you do wax lyrical with words George, sadly though, you are past your zenith, just like all the Greek tragedies are. You now sound like a sad and condescending old man, who is stuck in the past, who is simply insisting that he is always right.

    Indeed I do live in an Idyllic environment, a very sensible non materialistic rural peaceful lifestyle choice 40 years ago. Indeed I do breathe fresh air George and smell fragrant flowers. I do not live in the stench that you feel pervades your life.

    I am a breath of unconventional fresh air here George. Beyond your limited conventional institutionalised understanding.

    No George we have both made our thoughts clear now and we have nothing left to say.

    Yep it is just a sparring match with words now, and amusing to others I hope.

    There is no debate George. Just a simple question of voting for the ALP as there is no other viable alternative.

    Anybody with any intelligence knows that.. I am not interested in “debating” the past anymore thanks..

    I am tired of this sordid waste of words that you insist on. I trust this comment is nuanced enough for you..

    Put LABOR FIRST on your ballot paper and put the L/NP LAST on your ballot paper at the next Federal elections.
    Greens 2nd, and be careful about Independents as many are Liberal RW wolves in sheep’s clothing… Vote wisely!

    Whichever way you vote just, make sure for our kids future, the planet, for Australia, you put the crooked L/NP LAST

    I will be repeating this simple message all the way till the next elections, so get used to it and please take it seriously! 😎

    A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

  58. g

    “There is no debate George. Just a simple question of voting for the ALP as there is no other viable alternative.”

    It’d be hilarious, if it weren’t so tragic!
    Ciao, mate, e buona fortuna a te!

  59. BB

    George, you’re hilarious, a tragic. The writing is on the wall. Stop bitching about the ALP or suffer the L/NP in a 4th term. 😁

    Y ahora compórtate, viejo pedo. Es hora de que aprendas que no siempre puedes tener razón, otras personas también tienen opiniones válidas y debes dejar de intentar tener la última palabra todo el tiempo, es impropio y muestra una arrogancia desfavorable. ¡Ahora vota por el ALP!

    Chao amigo viejo.. Vaya en paz.

  60. Williambtm

    At the beginning of this article matter, the words were passed around… there was unanimity among all the comment authors:
    Hence it is time to offer the old chestnut;

    “United We Stand Divided We Fall.”

    Have ye not forgotten who we stand against?

  61. George Theodoridis

    Anyone suspects, as I do, that Albo will come out any minute now and sing the same nukular mantra as did Scomopoos?

    When it comes to the protection of Australia we are singing the same nukular slogans!

    Betsa you won’t have to wait long!

    Just sayin’

  62. BB

    A lion used to prowl around a field of four cows. Many times the lion would attack, but when the lion tried all four cows stood back to back so the lion always faced a set of horns. But one day the cows started quarreling among themselves, and they went their own way to a different part of the field. Then the lion attacked them one by one and soon killed them all.

    United We Stand Divided We Fall

    This was the cry of the unions, birthplace of the ALP. In 1890 unionists and employer groups faced off over wages and conditions against the background of a deep economic depression across Australia. This led to the creation of the ALP. https://www.nma.gov.au/defining-moments/resources/alp-forms

    Just sayin’

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