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Bullying is fine, apparently, but safe schools aren’t

By Tracie Aylmer

Bullying is one hell of an art form. For me, being bullied was a way of life. Every day I was the kid most picked on. I was called names, ridiculed for what I wore, ridiculed for my facial features, ridiculed for the fact that I was very short and skinny, pushed around by the two boys that I was forced to sit in between during 5th and 6th classes, tripped over, had food thrown at me and punched numerous times. These are the incidences that I actually remember from that time. I would need help remembering all the other incidences.

I remember after my appendectomy in 5th grade the teacher moved me to a safer spot in the classroom. The boys complained bitterly that I received special treatment, even though I was recovering from an operation for which my appendix nearly burst and then nearly died from an infection.

I remember many of the teachers in primary school and junior high school also got in the act. I wasn’t given any kind of safety at school, apart from the several weeks of reprieve from my 5th grade teacher. It was a very hard battle simply to survive the day.

Years later, I got back in touch with several from school that I now claim as Facebook friends. One of them told me several years ago that I was the kid most likely to commit suicide. That’s how bad it was.

I got no reprieve from it, either, until long after the damage was done. There were a couple of casual teachers that tried to take me under their wing. They were women. They did their best, and helped lessen the total isolation that I had felt. However, they didn’t stay long and left at the end of semester. Permanent teachers – including the teacher representing the year – thought it was a joke when I kept asking for protection from bullying.

It is so utterly isolating to be bullied as badly as this. It can cause lifelong damage, too.

I can’t imagine how much worse it would feel for those that are questioning their sexual orientation. For me, I’m straight and always have been, yet was a target anyway. Those not knowing whether they fit into the body they were born into must go through an even greater nightmare. The isolation would be much worse, I am guessing, than anything even I had to put up with.

The Safe Schools program is so incredibly crucial. While it helps those that do not fit into the body they are born into, there would be a reverberating effect for those that are bullied simply because they are a target. Respect would ensure that bullying would reduce for all students, simply by taking care of a minority.

The Safe Schools program is needed and funding should continue. It is the one thing that helps students, rather than hinders them. School is hard enough with learning without having to deal with bullying due to figuring out one’s sexuality. The isolationism of bullying means that added protections are definitely needed. I can’t say enough how much I believe in it.

A few weeks ago I decided on a whim to complete a survey by the Marriage Alliance, to tell them how much marriage equality means to me. I also told them in the survey that they were wrong about judging others, and they should give it all a rest. That put me on their mailing list. Since then, I have been receiving emails from them. The last few, I emailed back saying that many people had completed the survey trying to tell them that they were wrong and the vast majority of people wanted marriage equality. Since they only quoted Miranda Devine (I don’t believe they read anything that I replied with).

Today I received another email from Sophie York from the Marriage Alliance. She is the one that Miranda Devine loves to quote. They appear to be the best of friends.

This is what the email says:

Dear Tracie,

Even with this week’s victories in New South Wales and Tasmania over Safe Schools, we cannot be any less vigilant. (If you missed the news, read more below!)

Children are still being encouraged to consider their gender as fluid, and are even convinced that being transgender is the newest trend, presenting themselves to gender clinics to appear fashionable. These are dangerous ideas – evidence that we still have serious work to do. But as we saw in NSW and Tasmania, victory is certainly possible!

Thank you for your dedication to protecting our children and the institution of marriage.

Kindest regards,

Sophie York 
Marriage Alliance Spokesperson

I can’t say enough how offensive this email is to me. I have no wish to unsubscribe, as I want it known to all that the Marriage Alliance is full of crackpots like Sophie York who wants to put those being bullied at risk. If only there were laws against this, rather than the protection this hypocritical ‘government’ gives her. It appears they are protected even from child abuse laws.

The Marriage Alliance puts all children at risk. They must be stopped.

 

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185 comments

  1. longwhitekid

    Sophie York is a POX on religion and humanity.

  2. king1394

    It sounds like the Marriage Alliance survey was not done in an ethical manner, and was used to create (and sell?) a mailing list.

  3. guest

    This Marriage Alliance Spokesperson claims to have achieved some kind of ‘victory’ in some places. The ‘victory’ seems to be about stopping people from talking about some forms of bullying, especially that perpetrated against LGBTI children. It is as if LGBTI children do not exist and that banning the talking about them will make it all go away.

    These Marriage Alliance people – and others – seem to think that if the child has a penis or a vagina, then it is either a boy or a girl, male or female. For them, the idea that a ‘boy’ might feel that he is a girl, and a girl might feel she is a boy is quite beyond them. But it happens. They cannot deny that, but they obviously want to keep it secret.

    What to do, what to do? Perhaps they might want to give the ‘errant’ children a dose of chemicals or shock treatment or psycho-thereapy or a beating or bullying until they submit and change their minds. It has been attempted before with gay adults – but I do not believe there has been much success. And many LGBTI people have endured much pain and distress and alienation through the bigotry of others.

    Perhaps the Marriage Alliance people and allied groups want there to be social stigma inflicted on LGBTI people, such as bullying. I am sure that education authorities would treat the whole matter with discretion, but anyone would think that there would be a huge kerfuffle and circus as the teachers set about trying to convert all the children to ‘fluid gender’….For what purpose, exactly?

    These critics operate in exactly the same way as when they accuse policies to be ‘nanny state’ or ‘socialist’ or a commie ‘long march through society’. They take one tiny part and blow it up into a major concern which wants to destroy the whole program. They would rather destroy the program than have any mention of LGBTI people. In fact, they espouse an anti-bullying program which speaks in general terms about bullying with no mention of specific kinds of bullying, just some general fluffy respect for everybody.That generalised anti-bullying approach has been tried numerous times with varying degrees of success.

    But this anti-LGBTI bullying we have here seems to be working quite well, with a couple of ‘victories’ posted so far – and a delay in dealing with SSM posted indefinitely. Because, of course, we are told, we are all allowed to be bigots.

  4. diannaart

    I’ve been a bully magnet my entire life – although I handle it a lot more effectively now. Besides, I no longer have to turn up every day at the same school or same workplace.

    What was so different about me? Skinny and gangly, crap at sport because I missed so much due to illness – blond hair, blue eyes – but that was not good enough apparently.

    I too have to wonder how people with even greater differences than myself manage – in a crowd I do not stand out, nor do I have any issues with my identity. How do children manage who do stand out at first notice? Some manage to develop an insensitivity, but many do not and proceed into adulthood still damaged and the bullies turn into adults (I won’t say ‘matured’) and the cycle repeats.

    Imagine starting out at school feeling safe…

  5. kerri

    The fear in their opinions speaks volumes about ignorance.

  6. Neil Aitchison

    When you see the same sex marriage debate in context of a recent political strategy of Marxist far-left social engineering, then it all makes sense with the sabotage of public institutions, education system, medical organisations and sporting/social entities (including gender-bending concepts like gender fluidity in the “unSafe Schools” program), you see that the family unit is deliberately being destroyed along with marriage so that the State can take over. In other words, it is not about “individuals”, but rather about the “collective” and any alternative community (like families, churches, etc) are considered enemies of the State.

  7. Rossleigh

    God, Neil, when you use all those big words it just makes me hot. Where have you been all my life?

  8. roma guerin

    Neil Atchison, you are a real worry. The “State”? “Enemies of thhe State”? What on earth are you talking about? I think you might be on the wrong site.

  9. Max Gross

    Take your meds, Mr Aitchison,,, NOW!

  10. Roswell

    The world is moving forward from all that, Neil.

  11. Ricardo29

    Who let you out of the padded room, Neil? Perhaps ask them nicely if you can go back in. and don’t take the computer with you.

  12. Matters Not

    Neil Aitchison re:

    you see

    What’s with the you bit? Surely the ‘you’ pronoun ought to be replaced with he ‘I’? While I respect (somewhat grudgingly at times) those who recognise that they are advancing an individual point of view, I have great difficulty with those who claim to speak for the ‘other’ as evidenced by the use of the you pronoun. Then again those who have delusions of grandeur … like speaking for others … claiming to know what others believe or think … and so on. (The arrogance of it all.)

    Care to respond Neil?

  13. Miriam English

    I wonder if groups like the mind-bogglingly inaccurately named “Marriage Alliance” use their fake surveys to grow a list of names on their mailing list that they can then show to politicians as their “supporters”, when most people will just delete their emails or filter them to the trash. Very few will unsubscribe.

    As kerri said above, the fear in their propaganda speaks volumes about them. They fear gays and transexuals so much that they are perfectly happy to terrorise young children. They never seem to realise how completely upside down is their view.

    I’ve never met a gay person who didn’t just want to have a normal life (and I know a heck of a lot of gay men and women). This is even more true of transexuals — they just want to be accepted into society without fuss. They don’t want to change society or stand out in any way (other than for society to be more just and compassionate — hardly a bad thing). The crazily paranoid view of people like Neil Aitchison above, and the poor sods at “Marriage Alliance” is so far away from the truth it makes me wonder what is making them so ill.

  14. corvus boreus

    Marxists are sabotaging medical institutions (and sports clubs) in order to destroy the family unit so the state can take over(!!!).

    Rabid hyperbole, wound up into a deranged grand political conspiracy-theory, offered up by the frothing fundamentalist with an obsessive one-track mind from ‘Tax-sanctuary ministries’. Testerical stuff.

    In all fairness though, the Holy Bible does have passages specifically condemning male homosexuality as a capital offense (lesbianism is not mentioned, though). They are in the same old testament books that justify and glorify acts of genocide, and give explicit instructions on the proper conduct of blood sacrifices and the correct punishments for disobedient slaves.

  15. Jai Ritter

    I was bullied at school but mostly out of pure jealousy. I was short, well I still am and in most of the top classes at school, as well being good at all sports, played in a band and grew up as a surfy bodyboarding. Anyone would think, what the fuck are you complaining about?!

    It’s funny how far people will go to tare you down in life just because you’re enjoying and seem to have so much going on. I never really fitted into one group. I was a nerd but also extremely sporty, so I made friends with everyone from all the different clicks at school. One day I’d be hanging with the surfies and the next I’d be hanging out with the gay kids, or the outcasts.

    Now this was conflicting for my so called surfy “mates”, because that was somehow to them making me gay by association of course. So there began a rumor that I was gay and the bullying not towards me ramped up a little but what’s worse, it ramped up hugely for those other kids, I feel I was to blame for that because I didn’t stick up for them. Of course peer pressure won out in the end and the ” cool” kids won and for a year, I disgustingly became one of them.

    I started picking on them as well, putting tacks down the back of their chairs, punching them in the guts when running for the bus and calling them ” faggot” and. ” proofs” etc. Not a proud moment in my life. It wasn’t until one day when I ran up and he said ” stop, stop, stop!!” why are you doing this to me?!

    I just stopped dead still and thought, why the fuck am I doing this, this isn’t me. I’m being bullied too and I hate it, why the fuck am I doing this to someone!! I just looked up at him, saw the fear and confusion in his eyes and said ” I don’t know, I’m so so sorry, I’m really sorry, this won’t happen again”

    He didn’t talk to me again after that and I don’t blame him, but I never picked on anyone again after that. Since then I’ve always been quite protective of my gay friends especially and the most vulnerable in our society. something else kind of snapped in me. I was 14 and quite intelligent and had a honest wit and humour(still do) that most kids my age had no chance of counteracting ever. This was my new weapon, and what a weapon it was. At 5″5, even shorter in my teens, I could take down the biggest of bullies with a few words.

    This pissed of my so called mates back then even more, because even they were in my sights, they knew if they started on anyone I would start on them twofold.

    However, as life went on they did continue to try and get at me any way they could, no matter how much I accomplished in life, they didn’t like me being happy and continued call me gay and trying to make me look bad at every chance they got.

    It became too much mentally and I had my first severe depressive episode around 20. This went on all through my 20s, constant rumors about me spread by so called friends. It affected my talent for music, a port and bodyboard. Everything I was good at slowly faded because they didn’t like the fact I was good at these things, they had to tare me down every turn.

    Due to my episodic depressive episodes, I had maybe 3 flings with girls. Which of course made me even more gay, as it does. You do a hell of a lot of thinking when you’re trapped in your own head, it can be a very very lonely place.

    I was diagnosed with bipolar 2 just over 3 years ago, which was great at first but I ended up in hospital overdosing on on valium and then had a stint in a sub acute unit. I had suicidal thought but was. Not suicidal, I just wanted the negative thoughts to stop. By then I had a gorgeous 2 year old boy and a partner of just over two years. A beautiful local aboriginal girl that only grew up half a K away.

    During my 20s I was a chef and quite successful, taking over as head chef only two years into my apprenticeship at 26 at thought I’d finally found my calling although after 7 years it really clashed with my mental health, while in the sub acute I with chefing for good.

    Is this all linked from my time at school and growing up? I don’t know, but I think it’s turned me now into the best person I can be. While in the sub acute I watched the mental health peer support works etc work with us and something clicked. This is what I’m suppose to be doing!!

    When I got out, I focused solely on getting better for a year and it was tough. I’ve never had to go through such a severe depressive episode with a child or a partner. I’m surprised we survived to tell you the truth.

    Last year I enrolled in cert 4 community and passed with flying colours, but I hid how much I struggled. I’ve been nominated for an Illawarra tafe student award next week and kind of excited about that. I was adamant I was going to work in mental health but ended up this year enrolling in Disabilty.

    I’d never thought I’d be in this industry, ever! After learning about individual funding for people with disabilities etc, this is where my skills come in handy. This is where I can change someone’s life. I grew up with all these amazing skills like music, cooking, bodyboarding, sports, etc etc. Are you telling me i can get paid to do all these thing?!

    Now of course that is not why I do it, anyone who works in this sector knows you don’t go in to it for the money.

    Once you see someone’s face light up for the first time, whether it’s playing the drums, cooking an advanced meal, guitar, paddling on a kyak and Bodyboarding. Everything in the world just melts away. the negativity, the unwanted thoughts. Nothing exists but pure happiness and joy.

    I’ve now found my calling and changing a life, including my own one day at a time. The thing I’ve found most is, because of my past I’m now a staunch advocate for marriage equality, I make it known too, stickers on my car and I post constantly on facebook. I fight for social justice, equality and the environment. I go out of my way to ask people how they are doing and do thy need help?

    So thankyou to those bullies in the past and thankyou to the one who told me to stop an dmake me think. It’s been a long hard road, but I’m alive, and I’m doing good.

    Apologies, had an extremely restless night on flu tablets and started writing this like 5 in the morning.

  16. Kaye Lee

    Neil Aitchison is a Pastor at Sanctuary Christian Ministries, a Baptist group in Adelaide. He ran as an independent candidate for Sturt in the last federal election.

    “So-called “gender fluidity” is the latest psychotic myth (dreamed up by so-called “experts”) to be thrust upon us to damage our already vulnerable society even more. Even our hospitals and health centres (places designed to improve our wellbeing) have become a battle ground for political activism that masquerades as “medical science”. Our children are being groomed to act more like programmed robots controlled (stolen?) by selfish, hedonist activists rather than thinking human beings under loving parental guidance – unless their pre-birth experience includes a deadly visit to an abortion clinic, then they have no chance to escape the knife (….out of sight, out of mind, right?). I see more than ever the need for divine direction. I hope to see our federal parliament make a change for the better and head in the divine direction as outlined in God’s Word, the Holy Bible.”

    http://www.users.on.net/~mec/index1.html

  17. helvityni

    Bullying, putting someone down, sledging is an Australian sport, entertainment, pass-time, whatever…

    Maybe it was brought here by the original convicts, I believe it was widely practised in English boarding schools, maybe it’s a part of the English class system…

    I learnt about it only after arriving Australia, I blended in because I could have been an Aussie, the tall and blond daughter was bullied at school because the way she looked, hubby was wearing an old pinkish top and was called gay… 🙂

    It’s an ugly habit, or even worse, a dangerous custom and should have been eradicated a long time ago.

    Differences ought to be celebrated, valued…no seen as a reason to ridicule a fellow human being…

  18. havanaliedown

    How would you describe questioning somebody’s gender, Helvi? Oh,I see – it’s not bullying if you do it. And tell us again the story of how you poisoned a schoolmate. I wonder if she suffers ongoing health problems as a result…

  19. Tracie

    Jai Ritter thank you for sharing your life experiences with everyone here. I loved reading that you are contributing so passionately to society.

  20. babyjewels10

    Your blog post nearly brought me to tears. I want to cry and scream. I don’t want to share the oxygen with such cruel people any more. Problem is, they’re in power and comprise half our population. I’m at a total loss.

  21. Tracie

    Thank you. It’s been hard at times, with the bullying, domestic violence and sexual assaults. However, as Jai Ritter has written, it has given me life skills and passion to help others. As I was indoctrinated in church from a young age, so I know that the best way we can counteract this is to give our support to the LGBTI community, as well as other disadvantaged people.

    I now have support from wonderful family and friends. It’s not as hard anymore. The next step is to gain employment (which I’m desperate for and determined to have) even with the life skills I’ve obtained.

    Knowledge is power. We can make a difference, and bring humanity back into the mainstream.

  22. guest

    Somehow Neil Aitchison has got his political conspiracy theories mixed up with his religion.

    I wonder what ‘Sanctuary’ he offers LGBTI people in his ministry. Does he talk about ‘God is love’ and how Jesus advises that children be allowed to come unto him because of such is the kingdom of God?

    I really want to know if he has any understanding of LGBTI people beyond what he might read in a book some 2000 years old. Because my reading of it is that it is very mixed up in what it says. For example, the bit about an eye for an eye…but Jesus says in effect: turn the other cheek. So we have the New Testament contradicting the Old.

    In fact – and it has been said before – Jesus was a bit of a leftie, feeding the crowd with bread and fishes, healing the sick, mixing with the outcasts of society, telling the story of the good Samaritan…

    I feel sorry for Neil, who seems terribly confused, full of conspiracy theories, full of antipathy towards children and adults who are not the same as he wants them to be.

  23. babyjewels10

    Good for you Tracie. I’m glad to hear you sounding so strong. Still, you should not have had to go through what you did and I grieve for the embattled child you were, asking for help but not getting it. Are we to go on failing our kids? I hope not.

  24. Kaye Lee

    Here is a sermon by Pastor Neil Aitchison explaining how God makes it clear in His Word, the Holy Bible, that same-sex relationships are “not natural”

    “Young people who, in their puberty years, are naturally “hanging out” with peers of the same-sex for friendship (not for homosexuality or lesbianism) and they are being told by the gay lobby group that by hanging out with their same-sex friends, they must be homosexuals or lesbians. These innocent young people are being used as pawns in a political ploy to sodomize/hedonize our society by the gay lobby group with no regard for the hurt, confusion and depression/suicide that these young people will inevitably experience as they grow up into adults and find out that their sexuality is not what the gay lobby group told them. The deception and manipulation of these young people are a tragedy that should be stopped before we have a generation of “emotional misfits” living their lives in misery and distress.”

    https://vimeo.com/140504237

    between 1950 and 2010, more than 20 per cent of Marist Brothers, Salesians of the Don Bosco and Christian Brothers had allegations of child sexual abuse against them. For the Brothers of St John of God, that number was 40.4 per cent.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-06/royal-commission-into-child-sexual-abuse-begins-in-sydney/8242600

  25. Neil Aitchison

    No one has refuted any of my points about Marxism – thanks for agreeing with me by omission. Also, the perfect example of bullying is the people in here bullying me for disagreeing with their view. I even have the slanderous assumption that there is sexual abuse in my church just because I am a pastor of a church. I have no association with any churches committing climes against childre but, of course, it is expected that the people who support the “unSafe Schools” program are the biggest bullies of all and using innuendo and intimidation to silence their critics (seen it all before….ho hum)…..so thanks for proving my point and thanks for advertising my website. If you can find any faults in my comments against same sex marriage located at:

    http://www.users.on.net/~mec/evangelical/advertiser/index.html

    ….or any faults in my sermon located at:

    https://vimeo.com/140504237

    I would appreciate it – I am not scared of hearing opposing views (unlike the people commenting in here). If we all just listened to people of the same views, then we never can have a genuine debate and we live in a “thought bubble” that denies reality. Please give actual refutes though if you want to be taken seriously….just giving worthless, sweeping denials using emotive poetry and feigned horror won’t cut it – it will just make you all look more fake than you are already displaying in here.

  26. Michael Taylor

    I grew up on Kangaroo Island and almost everyone in our school (Parndana) was the son or daughter of a soldier settler. It was a tough school, and if a day went by that you weren’t bullied then you wondered what you’d done ‘wrong’. Our fathers all fought in WW2, so life was tough at home too. We all saw the tough school as something that was normal. And our teachers were tough, mean and nasty.

    It was in grades 6 and 7 that we had the meanest teacher God ever blew guts into.

    One day he told one of the boys to stand up. He walked over to him, punched him hard in the guts, then threw him 10 feet head first-into the wall before finishing him off. On another day a girl did something wrong and he asked the class if he should hit her. One bloke said “yes” before the teacher offered him a deal: “I’ll hit her on the condition that the next time you do something wrong I’ll hit you twice as hard”. The deal was accepted, and the girl was hit. We only had to wait a day before that lad did something wrong. And he was more than hit: he was bashed up. In front of the class. The agony on his face and the tears rolling down his eyes still live with me.

    On another day he punched a kid hard in the guts. A week earlier that kid had lost his father in a tractor accident. Silly me, I thought he’d have some compassion.

    A couple of months ago I stumbled across a Facebook page for my old school and there was a discussion about this teacher. One bloke – a couple of years older than me – spilled out how this teacher set him on a course of life filled with depression and suicidal thoughts. Reading that and other stories on that page, I will admit, reduced me to tears.

    And we went through school thinking this behaviour was normal.

    No, it’s not. Bullying needs to be stamped out. It ruins lives.

  27. Tracie

    You’re the kind of bully that I now must refuse to deal with Neil. I don’t agree with any of your comments, nor your assumptions that no one has disagreed with you. Your ignorance says it all. You refuse to understand what I went through, and have gaslighted me at every instance.

    You want a fight? You’ll have one face to face if you can shut up for one second to listen to a woman. As it is, your sexism ensures that you’re not even worth listening to.

    You’re the reason why I don’t receive respect from the church.

    As it is, I’m busy.

  28. silkworm

    “… they are being told by the gay lobby group that by hanging out with their same-sex friends, they must be homosexuals or lesbians.”

    This is delusional and paranoid.

    The problem for us is, how do we deal with a religiously deluded narcissist/psychopath, who lacks empathy for the downtrodden.

  29. Kaye Lee

    “the slanderous assumption that there is sexual abuse in my church”

    What absolute rubbish. You have been making the hugely ignorant case that the Safe Schools program is trying to make all children gay and that they are a danger to children even causing them to suicide. You have obviously never read the testimonials from students who took part in the program.

    I was pointing out facts about people who were a real danger to children. A danger that those children may have been better equipped to deal with had they attended the Safe Schools program.

    Let’s compare stats about how many children have sucided because of abuse by clergy to those who have suicided because of the Safe Schools program.

    Could you also define what you mean by Marxism…are we talking economics here?

  30. Matters Not

    Neil re your link – and they are the words of Neil Aitchison I now cite verbatim:

    The Marxists have sabotaged the push to legalise homosexual marriage

    So the Marxists are against homosexual marriage and that’s why they have sabotaged the push to legalise gay marriage. Given that sabotage is almost always defined in terms of: deliberately destroy, damage, or obstruct (something) I would have thought you (Neil) would be very pleased. The Marxists and you are apparently as one. Both hell bent on sabotaging moves to legalise gay marriage.

    Who would have thought. Neil has outed himself as a ‘fellow-traveller’. No wonder he was rejected by the electorate.

  31. diannaart

    I go away for one day and this blog explodes into the most passionate and brilliant (Jai Ritter) to the typical OT hate filled rant, yes, you, Neil A, to the frightening; I went to a tough school in age of returned vets but my school(s) were paradise compared to your experience, Michael Taylor. I have been physically assaulted but most of my bullying was of the verbal and ostracising variety and mostly from other girls. Ostracising or ignoring others is a very lazy and easy form of bullying.

    @ Neil A.

    This topic is about bullying and the Safe Schools program and nothing to do with Marxism, yes, I realise you will claim that Safe Schools is all part of a Marxist plot – so please don’t bother.

    We are discussing the effects of bullying, some of us are sharing painful experience all of which is very much a part of being human – not any kind of belief system, we are discussing real life.

  32. Oscar

    Have you ever wondered why Alan Jones hasn’t come out ? Who could blame Angry Al.

    With the likes of the Marriage Alliance on the hustings.

    I could never hide my homosexuality because of my effeminacy. I do feel very sorry for Big Al though.

  33. Kaye Lee

    An excerpt from a letter from a student who actually experienced the Safe Schools program as opposed to the people who know nothing about it.

    “I would also like to debunk the idea apparent in the media that the Safe Schools Coalition poses a threat. Suggesting that children may be ‘converted’ to being gay or transgender is ludicrous. Disagreeing with the program because of religious and / or homophobic ideologies reflects selfishness, prejudice and discrimination. It is suggesting the education of straight students who identify with the sex assigned to them at birth should trump that of others.

    My deepest gratitude is with the work of the Safe Schools Coalition, their staff and their funding partners. My support is with this program and the school communities it is positively impacting. Most importantly, my empathy is with students. Students whom after being provided with a program to help remove injustices and inequality are being surrounded by public debate of significant exaggeration, discrimination, misconception and ignorance. This is upsetting – but we must demonstrate strength and perseverance.”

    http://www.safeschoolscoalition.org.au/uploads/264fc9e1cf26e2bc457b5abbca70dc6b.pdf

    Rob Nairn, the Executive Director of the Australian Secondary Principals’ Association (ASPA) wrote a message of support.

    “Schools around Australia want to nurture safe school environments for all students and are doing great things to make that happen. The work of Safe Schools Coalition Australia provides powerful support, guidance and resources to assist school leaders and other staff, to explore opportunities in implementing inclusive policies and practices. It provides the language, the confidence and the practical tools to introduce positive changes for the whole school community.”

    “Safe School Coalition has provided our school and importantly our students with incredible support, encouragement and insight. An incredible organization which has achieved so much for so many.” – Principal, government secondary school, Victoria

    http://www.safeschoolscoalition.org.au/our-supporters/testimonials

  34. corvus boreus

    Neil Aitchenson,
    I am always interested in alternative viewpoints, particularly where they provide solid examples, preferably with credible informational links, to support their assertions..
    Had you (a [tax-exempt] pulpit-pounder with political ambitions) offered links to anything other than mere regurgitation of your own unsubstantiated opinions (which have been previously stated, ad-nauseum), I might have nibbled at your click-bait.
    However, since your last post was to express salacious glee at the promotion your were receiving, I won’t bother.

    Ps, Thank you for, by your omission through silence, agreeing with the statement that “God’s holy word, the Holy Bible”, endorses human genocide and slavery.

  35. guest

    Neil Aitchison,

    you are the person making accusations of Marxist intrusion into everything. I do not see any proof that you are right in anything you have said here – just a lot of strange accusations. I read something similar in the Murdoch press when a writer claimed Marxists have infiltrated education in public schools and in tertiary education such as engineering, dentistry and agriculture faculties.

    Is that where you get your ideas from about Marxist dentists or Marxist engineers?

    And you think the church is not about social engineering?

    You claim Marxists have sabotaged “public institutions, education system, medical organisations and sporting/social entities” with no evidence at all.

    You make some kind of attempt by referring to Marxist “gender-bending concepts”, but I thought Marxists were dead against “gender-bending people”, gays and anything LGBTI. In fact the Russian Marxists, for example, bash them up in the streets.

    Then you say the State is “deliberately” destroying the family unit so it can “take over”. And what do you think the state will gain by that? In my view, family units are doing a good job of destroying them selves. What is the divorce rate? 40-50%?

    You go so far as to say that “alternative community (like families, churches, etc) are considered enemies of the State”. I have not read that anywhere, not even in the Murdoch press. You offer no proof or evidence at all.

    So you prefer the”individual” to the “collective”, yet you want your individuals to be all the same. What would you do if a family came to you and said their child perceived that he was really a girl?
    Would you turn them away?

  36. corvus boreus

    I would add that, here in NSW in recent years, politicians specifically identifying themselves as ‘Christians’, (ie; the ‘Christian Democrats’) have, through their cynical lobbying, kept school students in the NSW public education system from having the openly stated option of an approved curriculum in secular ethics (ie public law and common decency) being freely offered as an option for those who do not want religious instruction mandatoraaly included in public education.

    The very same ‘Christian’ politicians have also lobbied for the decommissioning of this state’s anti-corruption body (ICAC).

    Apparently, here in NSW, ‘Christianity’ means enabling political corruption and opposing instruction in ethics.

  37. Kaye Lee

    The Catholic Church was among the loudest voices against the Australian Charities and Not-for-profits Commission. Cardinal George Pell reportedly lobbied the government to abolish it. Transparency and accountability is “an unreasonable burden” according to George.

  38. diannaart

    “Transparency and accountability”; anathema to the likes of Pell and other “Christians”.

    We hear a lot of demands for moderate Muslims to speak out about their radical brethren (which they actually do but we don’t hear about – thanks MSM). I suspect the same is for moderate Christians, although, given Australia’s primarily pro-white pro-Christian culture, I believe moderate Christians have a better chance of being heard. Just sayin’.

  39. Kaye Lee

    For once I agree with you havanaliedown. Jones’ sexuality is not my business and doesn’t interest me in the slightest. What I will give him credit for is using his conservative platform to publicly advocate for a parliamentary vote on marriage equality and to express his support.

    “Jones revealed that after the Abbott government adopted the plebiscite as its official we-have-to-do-something policy on marriage equality, then-minister Turnbull had called him and asked him to intervene. “This is ridiculous Alan, this plebiscite stuff,” Jones quoted Turnbull as saying at the time.”

    http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/qa-recap-alan-jones-speaks-out-against-plebiscite-on-gay-marriage-20160627-gpt9f8.html

  40. Jack Straw

    I’ll give Neil a tick for his courage to post his views.Though all his analogies are simplistic and ignorant. Re; Jesus Christ is the Bride Groom and the Church the Bride and Same Sex marriage being lust not love, I can tell from your body language an attitude that you have a massive chip on your shoulder and you are a loser.Get some help and stop destroying gullible peoples lives.”There none so blind that do not want to see”.Your own quote right back at you.

  41. Tracie

    @Jack Straw

    sigh…

    i love this comment!

    can’t love it enough, actually

  42. Roswell

    Yes, it was a decent comment. But sorry, Jack, I had to moderate your last sentence.

  43. diannaart

    Roswell

    Regarding Jack’s comment… and then there is always the email notification… 😉

  44. Jack Straw

    Yes sorry I know this is a family show and the kiddies could be watching.I don’t often swear but I felt it was very appropriate for pasta neil??

  45. Roswell

    Dianna, in the past if I’ve said nothing I’ve come in for a hammering. Besides, I don’t think I’ve got the authority to email anybody.

    Anyway, Jack’s cool with it.

  46. Roswell

    Jack, I find Neil’s beliefs strange, to say the least.

    As I said to him earlier, the world’s moved on from his beliefs. Keeping up has been difficult.

  47. Jack Straw

    He’s probably been unemployed all his life and couldn’t belief his luck when he fell into this lark.

  48. diannaart

    @Tracie

    I don’t know where your post went. This IS getting weird. Your comment turned up in my email tray but is not here.

    But yes, you understand my comment, I mean we can see the fully unabridged comments in our emails – not that I want our emails edited at all… in fact that is freaking me out…

  49. Tracie

    @Dianna

    I had misread the comment (I blame poor eyesight) so deleted it myself when I realised that I had misconstrued Roswell’s comment. Sorry about that. I thought I was going to get away with no one actually reading or seeing it.

  50. diannaart

    @Tracie

    Never forget the Dark side of emails…heh, heh, heh…

  51. Kyran

    “Bullying is fine, apparently, but safe schools aren’t.”

    Couldn’t help but go and have a look at the website.
    “The vision is supported by guiding principles for safe, supportive and respectful school communities. These guiding principles emphasise the importance of student safety and wellbeing for effective learning in all school settings.
    Australian schools:
    • affirm the rights of all members of the school community to feel safe and be safe at school
    • acknowledge that being safe and supported at school is essential for student wellbeing and effective learning
    • accept responsibility for developing and sustaining safe and supportive learning and teaching communities that also fulfill the school’s child protection responsibilities
    • encourage the active participation of all school community members in developing and maintaining a safe school community where diversity is valued
    • actively support young people to develop understanding and skills to keep themselves and others safe
    • commit to developing a safe school community through a whole-school and evidence-based approach”

    https://www.education.gov.au/national-safe-schools-framework-0

    The safe school program was never about sexuality, other than as a subset. In the same sense that race, religion, dress, accent, colour, etc, were subsets. The program was always intended to address bullying. Identify it, call it out and address it.
    There have been many powerful comments posted by people who have clearly suffered bullying at school. Got a few of my own.
    Whilst the reasons for the bullying vary, the nature of bullying never will. Until it is identified and called out, it will never be addressed. Regrettably, our ‘elected leaders’ are bullies, empowered by an increasingly sycophantic media. Both achieving little more than their self-justification and aggrandisement, to all others deprivation (other than their advertisers and benefactors).
    The program is about bullying. Allowing discussion of the subsets is nothing more than a distraction.
    That ‘same sex marriage’ discussion annoys me for the same reason. Until such time as the conversation is restricted to equality, devoid of sexuality, race, religion, dress, accent, colour, (what the heck, I’ll even throw in gender), it will never be about equality. Another unnecessary distraction.
    From your 11.02 comment;
    “Knowledge is power. We can make a difference, and bring humanity back into the mainstream.”
    To bring humanity back into the mainstream, we need to treat bullies the same way the safe schools program does. Identify the problem, call it out and address it. Avoid the distractions.
    Do you think Ms McManus could be a voice of reason? Calling out the bullies, and their bullshit?
    Thank you Ms Aylmer and commenters. Take care.
    PS, As for the likes of Mr Aitchison, Mr Shelton and all of the other bible bashing bastards (many of whom are in our current parliament), take care. Be kind to yourselves. May your gods go with you. The sooner, the better.

  52. Miriam English

    Poor Neil Aitchison shows with every hateful word just how poisonous and evil are his religious delusions.

    It isn’t that he’s homophobic or so callous in his disregard for the safety of children that is the worst part; it is his certainty that this dangerously vicious viewpoint is holy and that he needs to impose it upon others wherever he can. It leads him to become an active cheerleader for the demonising and persecution of people unfortunate enough to be born with a sexuality different from the average. That is what is so deeply repellent about him.

    He is almost certainly an intrinsically good person who has been led so astray by his religious delusions that he will waste his life and the lives of countless others in the pursuit of what amounts to the purest evil… all because of a wicked, but imaginary god which was the product of the fevered delusions of superstitious, ignorant savages at the dawn of human civilisation. It would be laughable if it wasn’t so terrible.

    Neil, thankfully humanity is moving on and the era of your kind of hateful intolerance is being discarded by kind and thoughtful people everywhere. We no longer believe that slavery is acceptable, or that a bride who is not a virgin deserves to be stoned to death, or that gays are an abomination, or that wearing clothes of more than one kind of thread is an abomination. We live in the 21st Century when we have a far better understanding of reality and morality, and we know that the greatest lesson of religion is how divisive it can be, how much pain and suffering it has inflicted, and how much evil it still causes.

    You, Neil, with every word you speak, show that you are sadly an agent of that desire to hurt people in the cause of delusion. I hope you wake up to the awful damage you are causing and work to undo it.

  53. Kaye Lee

    Neil reminds me of Malcolm Roberts

    “No one has refuted any of my points about Marxism – thanks for agreeing with me by omission”

    Malcolm Roberts has been a serial pest for years bombarding people with his climate change denialist crap. He wrote this lengthy report called CSIRoh! which he sent to hundreds of people – politicians, journalists and scientists.

    Ten prominent scientists also get a copy of Roberts’ report, which includes the faintly narcissistic demand that if they fail to prove that human-caused climate change exists to his satisfaction, then “by Friday, March 1st, 2013 I will assume you do not disagree with my report.”

    http://www.readfearn.com/2013/02/climate-change-new-world-order-malcolm-roberts-ben-cubby/

  54. Karl Young

    All these men outsource their thinking brain for a convenient religion /ideology thought up by someone else.

  55. Miriam English

    I think such people as Malcolm Roberts, Neil Aitchison, and even possibly Tony Abbott, actually mean well, but their lack of intelligence combined with their platform for spreading bad ideas makes them dangerously malignant. They’re like the classic bull in a china shop — its actions unintentionally cause great damage because it doesn’t have the capacity to understand the value around it.

    Compare them with genuinely bad people like Peter Dutton, or Gina Reinhart, or Donald Trump, or Gautam Adani, who simply want something and they really don’t seem care who gets hurt in the process.

    One thing all of them have in common, deluded or sociopathic, is that they’re bullies.

  56. Deanna Jones

    Thanks for this, Tracie. Your experiences of school must have been horrendous. I remember the bullies well, although I was only infrequently targeted directly. I have clear memories of teachers regularly being the bullies as well, or of joining in with the bullies. I don’t know anyone who did not experience the school environment as one characterised by emotional abuse, to some degree. This includes my own, now grown up, children, especially my daughter, who is gay, and was taunted relentlessly about it, even having food thrown at her. If the adults in those environments are not the perpetrators themselves, then they are mostly turning a blind eye. As a professional working in a child and family sector now, I regularly hear children and young people speak of abusive teachers, some of whom I’ve had to report to child protection services. Is it the nature of school, I wonder? Many criminology theorists have drawn parallels between schools and prisons; the absolute power of those with authority, the negative societal beliefs about the respective client groups, both of which are involuntary, interactions playing out largely behind closed doors etc.

  57. Karl Young

    Always insightful Miriam though these minds are all damaged .

  58. Neil Aitchison

    Many of you say that I am “ignorant”, yet I am here reading your comments….so why aren’t you “educating” me on why homosexuality should be considered acceptable?….bad=mouthing me doesn’t educate me and just because you were/are bullied and feel upset doesn’t justify homosexuality being deemed acceptable?….even “unSafe Schools” doesn’t address the immense health issues attributed to the homosexual lifestyle or any of the emotional devastation caused by gender alteration therapies. The obvious exclusion of all these facts automatically creates suspicions and your feigned horror adds to the suspicions. I am trying so much to understand the discrimination going on that I have found out that more discrimination goes on within the LGBTIQAP+ community than outside….this is because the only attraction to be homosexual/trans/bi/whatever is “sex appeal” (after all, the relationships are purely sex-based, otherwise there would be no need to be homosexuals – heterosexuality is just as possible to have friendships/romance/love if it wasn’t solely for the sex part being different). Without “sex appeal”, the person is rejected. thereby causing stress to the person and hurt feelings….plus, relationships fall apart very quickly when the “sex appeal” wears off which explains the multiple sex partners (sometimes at the same time) by homosexuals thereby causing even more rejection, hurt feelings and abuse. All of this is going on within the LGBTIQAP+ community. No wonder there is considerable rejection of the homosexual lifestyle even outside of religious reasons. I have become so educated about this that I found concerns by gay people all the time causing immense emotional problems. Even racism exists because different races are used (abused?) in different ways during the sodomy sex act – Asians are “receivers”, Indian/Middle east are children (ie. for sex slave trading), some are “gobblers”, etc, etc….I know it all sounds sick, but this is all part of the LGBTIQAP+ lifestyle that is conveniently ignored by homosexual activists and “unSafe Schools”. I can give you more details (it’s pretty sick stuff) if you want, but the moderator will reject it – the LGBTIQAP+ sex stuff is pretty sick stuff.

  59. Kaye Lee

    Dear oh bloody dear. Neil, here’s a tip. Stop obsessing about other people’s sex lives. It is not up to you to tell others what is “acceptable” between consenting adults. Everyone should have the right to love whoever they want without being harrassed and denigrated by people like you. It is you that has the hangups and fixation on sex appeal and I have to say, you are creeping me out. You think the safe schools program is dangerous? I wouldn’t let you within cooee of my kids.

  60. Tracie

    I agree Kaye.

    I couldn’t read the whole of his comment. It bored me soon after he tried to ram down our throats that the sex lives of other people are for him to judge. Either he is on a mountain of drugs that I won’t partake, or he is incredibly curious.

    Either way, he is also creeping me out.

    Seriously, Neil, it’s called Greek style. There’s a reason why it’s called Greek style. The Romans did it too.

  61. Neil Aitchison

    If “unsafe Schools” was solely about the sex lives of “consenting adults”, then it wouldn’t be targeting children in schools – the great danger of it is that it is targeting children to be groomed into gay culture without informing them of all the dangers associated with it (as I explained above and which you haven’t refuted). Feeling creepy about my comments doesn’t make “unSafe Schools” a safe program for children….to the contrary, it IS creepy for children to be sexualised at a young age which inevitably flows to child-on-child sex and other promiscuous sex acts at a young age – there is no “adults” involved here as you make out….it is impressionable and naive children being encouraged to do it all (and suffer the consequences). .

  62. Matters Not

    Neil you aren’t ‘advancing’ your argument just ‘sabotaging’ same. Just like your claim that the Marxists are ‘sabotaging’ the push for same sex marriage – to use your exact words.

    I hope you don’t have any contact with children and thereby contribute to an apparent decline in literacy standards – particularly the comprehension aspect.

    I was gong to say: Get a grip a man! But then I realised that might be the problem. Intellectually speaking of course.

  63. Miriam English

    Okay Neil. I’ll try to educate you.

    Let me begin by asking, why should anyone who doesn’t hurt other people not be considered acceptable?

    What gives you, or anybody else, the right to tell someone that they’re not acceptable?

    Why would you attack a person who never chose to be gay and almost certainly wishes they were straight (because life would be so much easier in our prejudiced society), but who just wants to live a peaceful life with the person they love?

    We all know what you mean when you say “the enormous health issues of the homosexual lifestyle”. You are dog-whistling about AIDS. But worldwide, AIDS is predominantly a disease of straight people. Gay men were more exposed to it in Western societies during the 80s due to how it became introduced, but now, with increased use of condoms this is less so. All sexually active parts of society are potentially exposed to AIDS… except for lesbians. They have the lowest risk of any group.

    All the gay people that I know are in extremely long-term relationships, except for a very small number who are single and celibate (like myself). In fact their relationships tend to be lifelong, which is sadly more than I can say for most straight couples. Oddly, the most religious people in society have highest number of divorces. You would think that wouldn’t be the case, but I expect it has something to do with the intolerance of the fundamentalist mindset. It must be very wearing on marriages.

    I know a lot of gay people and I don’t know one who has a superficial, sex-based relationship. Each has a deep and meaningful love for their partner. A couple who live just down the road from me have been partners for many decades and now one is dying of Parkinsons and her wife is still devoted to her. Neil, it is as if you’re speaking about aliens from another planet. You really don’t understand gay people at all.

    Yes, of course there is racism among a small minority of gay people. They are normal people, just like straight people, and prey to all the same failings and petty stupidities that any people are. They should know better, but so should we all. You should know better than to denounce gay people, yet here you are with your ridiculous prejudices.

    Every intelligent species on Earth has same-sex-attracted members. It isn’t just a feature of humans. Horses, lions, geese, penguins, dogs, cats, elephants, giraffes… they all have same-sex-attracted individuals. No amount of conditioning or persuasion can change their orientation, just as with humans. Why would you wish to bully and victimise people who are simply different from you? It turns you into a monster, and why ever would you want to be that?

    But enough about gay people. The Safe Schools program was never primarily about gay kids. It is about stopping bullying, which is a huge problem in Australia. Far too many people feel entitled to bully others.

    Why would you want to encourage bullying? Such an attitude would seem to fly in the face of everything that Jesus taught. It is a very strange way for a supposed Christian to act.

  64. corvus boreus

    Neil,
    Of course the Safe Schools program doesn’t cover any of the health issues associated with anal sex.
    This is because it is not a sex-education course, but simply an anti-bullying program that, amongst a myriad of other issues addressed (eg racism, sexism), has a few pages that educate children/youths in the fact that belittling or harming others because of their sexual orientation or gender identity is not considered acceptable behavior.
    However, I would not expect a fundamentalist bigot like yourself (‘poofs can’t love’) to understand or embrace such modern concepts of tolerance, since you preach from a primitive tome that glorifies child slavery and mass murder.

    ‘Kill all the little boys, and kill all the women who have known the touch of a man.
    Keep alive, for yourselves, all the virgin girls’. (Moses)

  65. Miriam English

    Neil, it seems to me that you’re the one who keeps sexualising children.

    I’ve never heard any account of children being sexualised by the Safe Schools program.

    People who keep obsessing about other peoples’ sex lives keep saying that the Safe Schools program encourages kids to be gay, but they never actually back this up with any real facts, just hysteria and hate and all the ingredients of a good old witch hunt (and religion is sooo good at those).

    So they destroy a program that was trying to protect children.

    Sadly, Safe Schools is trying to protect children from exactly the bullies who are destroying it — hateful panic-propagators like you, Neil.

  66. Kaye Lee

    I was a teacher Neil and in my early years had to teach personal development which included sex education. Just because we learned about it did not mean everyone in my class immediately went and had sex. Let me tell you, kids already have sexual feelings and it is far better for them to understand what is going on than to keep them in ignorance. Imagine how scared a girl would be if she knew nothing about menstruation when it began. Imagine how confused boys would feel about erections and wet dreams. And they are most definitely taught about sexually transmitted diseases and how to avoid them. Much more than we ever were.

    Aims and Objectives of the Safe Schools Coalition Australia Programme

    The SSCA’s aims are to (1) reduce homophobic and transphobic behaviour and intersex prejudice, and (2) increase support for same sex attracted, intersex and gender diverse students, school staff and families. The processes supporting these aims include building capacity of school communities, students and staff; sharing good practice; and building national awareness on these issues

    The review conducted by this government found…

    The resource All of Us is consistent with the aims of the program, is suitable, robust, age-appropriate, educationally sound and aligned with the Australian Curriculum. It contains more material than would be likely to be used in most schools, and some material that individual schools and teachers would choose not to use. These choices fall within the range of reasonable teacher judgement and school policy.

    The program is not a unit of work. It is a resource that teachers asked for to be developed so they could better help their students. No school is known to have implemented the whole eight-lesson program. It is not indoctrination – it is discussion material designed to promote acceptance and tolerance of diversity and to reassure young people that there is nothing wrong with the feelings they or their friends may be experiencing.

  67. Roswell

    Neil, I’d like to hear your views on school bullying.

  68. Miriam English

    Ah, that’s the problem, Kaye. Neil knows those feelings are wrong, though. He knows this based upon his feelings of prejudice, disgust, and hatred, and an abiding desire to bully into submission anybody who is different. To him, acceptance and tolerance of diversity are scary words which would be evil even if his lord Jesus spoke them. Turn the other cheekjudge not, lest you be judged… oh, wait, he did.

  69. Kaye Lee

    Thankfully, our children are much better informed. They couldn’t care less about their friend’s ethnicity, religion, or sexuality. Knowing homosexual people is no more likely to make them homosexual than knowing black people will make you black. It’s such a silly argument which is also based on the prejudice that those things are somehow inferior or bad. Which is, as you say Miriam, Neil’s actual problem.

  70. Neil Aitchison

    Thank you, Roswell….you are the only one on here so far who wants to discuss the real issue concerning bullying instead of pushing homosexuality as being “acceptable” no matter what (and using the “unSafe Schools” program as a front). The homosexual activists always ignore any facts that expose the homosexual agenda (as outlined in the 1989 book “After the Ball”) as deceptive, manipulative, unnatural and dangerous. They keep saying that gender is fluid and yet to identify the people needing “unSafe Schols”, they use gender specific LGBTIQAP+ distinctions – so either gender isn’t important or it is, why can’t they make up their minds?….ANSWER: it’s all a farce.

    I intend to use this series of comments to warn young people of the homosexual agenda and the “unSafe Schools” program – after they have read all the comments, they can judge for themselves who is being genuine and helpful or not….so I have nothing to fear. To answer your question: School bullying is unacceptable in any way, shape or form. In such instances when bullying occurs, the victims should be supported in every way possible. This is what I do in my church and we have had many homosexuals approach my church (most of them have been bullied and/or abused by other homosexuals) because we accept them and offer genuine solutions for their terrible dilemma. Instead of covering over the problems with propaganda slogans for political purposes (like the homosexual activists do), we encourage people to identify the cause of their problems and offer real alternative ways to live avoiding the cause of their problems. After careful reflection and consideration, many realise that they were tricked into the homosexual lifestyle. The remaining ones realise that they are being used as pawns in the Marxist socialism strategies and are happy to be left alone, but the homosexual activists don’t want to give up on their selfish quest to destroy families and biological parent-hood….so the homosexuals suffer. The bullying will only increase with programs like “unSafe Schools” and the bullying intensifies as the indoctrinated children grow up into the gay culture and find far more problems hit them within the LGBTIQAP+ community.

    Thank you for your query.

  71. Kaye Lee

    If these comments are to be used to “warn young people” then I would suggest those young people look at the emotive manipulative language being used by the Pastor.

    “offer genuine solutions for their terrible dilemma”

    “alternative ways to live avoiding the cause of their problems”

    ” tricked into the homosexual lifestyle”

    ” quest to destroy families and biological parent-hood”

    Is he offering support for bullied children or is he offering hyperbolic language specifically designed to scare and intimidate people? Is he suggesting medical treatment for same sex attracted people to “cure” them? Are the incurables “happy to be left alone” – like lepers?

    Perhaps the young people might want to ask the Pastor for the proof of his statement that homosexuals are on a quest to destroy families as opposed to just wanting one of their own.

    Perhaps the young people may want to explore the concept of indoctrination and discuss whether religious indoctrination leads to intolerance, discrimination, blame, rejection of science, misogyny, persecution and wars.

    Perhaps the young people may want to discuss the prevalence of child sexual abuse in the clergy and what part indoctrination may have played in “tricking” people into trusting men just because they belonged to a church.

    As for pushing a “homosexual agenda”, I am a 59 year old mother of two who has been with the same partner for over 40 years – 35 of them married. Is “living in sin” still a thing? Another topic the young people may wish to discuss.

  72. corvus boreus

    In NSW, the religious lobbyists have sought to not only remove the Safe Schools anti-bullying literature, but are also actively seeking to ban classes in ethics (societal values of basic decency) being available in public schools as a choice for the non-religious during the time allotted for ‘religious instruction’.
    They not only demand the right to indoctrinate children in their own superstitions during school hours, but seek to deny the rights of children and parents to have an alternative option that teaches basic sound values from an approved curriculum.
    The religious lobby demand a monopoly on school time in public education, in order to preach from a book that views consensual homosexuality as a far worse sin than child rape.
    This is probably so that they can groom children for exploitation by predatory priests.
    Why else would they so vehemently oppose young people being allowed to learn about ethics?

  73. Kaye Lee

    cb,

    In NSW they pander to Fred Nile who, interestingly enough, was denied entry to the United States to attend Trump’s inauguration because he was told he and his wife presented an unspecified security risk.

  74. Miriam English

    Neil, you’re arguing hysterically against something that doesn’t exist. There is no homosexual agenda. All gays want is to be treated as ordinary human beings.

    Your fear reminds me of the great moral panic from church people in USA during the 1980s and 1990s when hysteria swept that country regarding satanic cults. It turned out that such cults never actually existed, but were merely the product of fear whipped up in churches by ignorant people. By in playing itself out this frenzied panic destroyed the lives of countless people.

    It also reminds me of the awful witch hunts of the Dark Ages where religious people in frenzied fear of witches murdered up to 100,000 people, mostly women, by burning them alive or drowning them by throwing them, bound, into ponds. Of course, now, in more knowledgeable times, we know witches never existed, so the church killed all those poor people for nothing.

    But that’s always been the biggest problem with religion: never letting facts get in the way of an emotional story.

    Additional: I’d never heard of “After the Ball“, so I’ve just now done a bit of background reading about it. I’ll get the book and read it later, but it looks to me that the author, Marshall Kirk (an extremely highly respected historian and gay man), was arguing against things like the Pride Marches. I can see his point. By appearing as different the Pride Events give haters a handy target for attacking gay people. Many people hate and fear those who seem different. I think Marshall Kirk was simply arguing that gay people should let go of such celebrations and fit into society, becoming virtually invisible. The problem with his reasoning, if I’m not misrepresenting it, is that invisibility hasn’t worked over hundreds of years. The Pride events, on the other hand have been making a genuine difference by showing people they have nothing to fear from gay people.

    Neil, what you see as a book promoting some mythical “gay agenda” would appear to actually be the complete opposite.
    I bet you haven’t read it.

  75. corvus boreus

    Kaye Lee,
    Fred Nile and the Murdoch press feigned ignorance as to the reason for the travel ban.
    Apparently, it was due to the rev Fred publicly lobbying for donations to fund one of the paramilitary militias operating in Syria.
    The US Dept of State takes a dim view on god-nuts shaking the can in order to buy bullets for private armies.

  76. Kaye Lee

    It is also bemusing for a Christian to be condemning “the immense health issues attributed to the homosexual lifestyle” when it was Christians who raped their way around the world infecting Indigenous populations with their STDs and it is Christians who continue to ban the use of contraceptives.

  77. Deanna Jones

    You seem confused, Neil. You’ve used the extended acronym, LGBTQIAP, a couple of times. Yet you keep referring to the “homosexual agenda”. You do realise, don’t you, that homosexuals are just one small group within LGBT community don’t you? If you’re trying to show some semblance of inclusivity, which I highly doubt, then you need to refer to all the sub groups consistently, not just one. Easier still, you could just say sexually and gender diverse peoples. Calling us “gays” or “homosexuals” is kind of ignorant, and I know you want to appear otherwise. Personally, I think your hatefulness is intractable, and your commentary here is harmful.

  78. Tracie

    Neil, you’re the type of bully who would have fit in well with all the bullies that bullied me. The reason why I defend other people’s lifestyles is because of the way I felt when I was targeted and denigrated by people like you. They have just as much of a right to live as I do. You, on the other hand, believe that you are superior to others, just because you were born a white male. Your judgment makes the Christian church look medieval. It’s no wonder I left.

  79. Deanna Jones

    Miriam, what Neil is talking about is the bogus misrepresentation of Kirk’s work, by xtian bigots. Those were the same bigots who brought us the “feminists want all men killed” and “all Muslims are terrorists” narratives.

    Interestingly, Kirk argued for assimilation, the first step toward erasure, and likely had some internalised homophobia going on for himself, which is common in LGBT community.

  80. helvityni

    This bullying business seems to be a weird activity, it’s circular; it seems to me that the ones who have been bullied ,become bullies later on…How are we going to stop it?

    The kids at school have to tell the teachers.
    At the work place the bosses have to be informed.
    On blogs like AIMN we can alert the Moderators.

    What about if the teachers, bosses, moderators are ALSO bullies…? 🙂 Should we call the police…? Oops, some of them are iffy….

  81. Michael Taylor

    Speaking of teachers as bullies, helvityni, I recall something a (now) old lady once told me.

    She attended a Catholic school in Adelaide in the 1940s/1950s, and one day she wore a red jumper to school that her mother had knitted. Her teacher (a nun) was horrified, and told her that she couldn’t wear red again as red was the colour of Jesus’s blood. To wear red was sacrilege.

    That night she told her mother she couldn’t wear the jumper again, but her mother said she had to, as that was all she had.

    So she wore it the next day.

    She was whipped by the nun.

  82. Jack Straw

    We can all be potential bullies.Some men can never get a woman and end up hating all of them.Then turn their hatred in some sort of self righteous jihad against whatever suits them.

  83. Michael Taylor

    And another story – which I’ve often shared – was one from my professor at uni, an Aboriginal lady who was raised on a mission in WA.

    One year a request came in from a nearby pastoralist to send one of the ‘native girls’ over to work as a house servant for a few weeks over Christmas. A young girl of 14 was sent over.

    When she returned she was in tears, telling the missionary that the pastoralist had raped her. She was whipped by the missionary for telling lies. The good pastoralist wouldn’t do such a thing, she was told in no uncertain terms.

    She was sent again the following year, though she pleaded not to go.

    Again, she returned to the mission in tears. She had been raped. Again. And again she was whipped for telling lies.

    A few months later it was discovered she had fallen pregnant.

    So what did the missionary do? Did he accept now that the young girl had been raped? No. He whipped her for getting pregnant.

  84. Deanna Jones

    Jack, if only those types drew the line at just hating us, we’d be fine.

  85. helvityni

    Quelle horreur !

    Michael, I wonder it that nasty nun had any blood in her veins. My Sunday school teacher told me that all Christians are nice people. Well, she was lying as she certainly wasn’t a good person, put me off from the Bible forever…

    Jack, and if a man gets a woman, he might pour all his hatred onto that ONE poor woman, she’ll be punished for all his woes… 🙂

  86. Jack Straw

    Helvityni: Woman can do this also. Not all of them are saints.

  87. Miriam English

    A basic failing of almost all humans is that we can so easily turn into bullies. It is a very rare person who is able to resist the urge. The work of Philip Zimbardo in his Stanford prison experiment shows that. We all think that we would resist and be compassionate, but statistics shows most of us would fail.

    Neil shows how out of control such bullying can become if given fertile delusions in which to grow. He works very hard to spread bullying far and wide, and works aggressively to kill off programs that would stop bullying.

    This is why we need to work hard to make anti-bullying programs the normal condition in schools, and to follow up in the workplace and all levels of authority, especially power-based groups such as the police and the military.

  88. Miriam English

    What amazes me most about Neil is that he’s such a foaming-at-the-mouth bully, when his actions and words are diametrically opposed to his own deity’s prescriptions (at least in the New Testament; in the Old Testament god is an awful bully).

  89. Jack Straw

    Miriam when you view the Bible as a law book with your own interpretations. It’s always dangerous.

  90. Tracie

    @silkworm

    That’s scary

  91. Deanna Jones

    Silkworm, you don’t understand how child protection works. You are allowed to be a hateful bigot, and have children, or have contact with children. What has he posted that suggests he is a perpetrator of child abuse? I must have missed that.

  92. Michael Taylor

    Deanna, silkworm never actually made that claim. If he had have, the claim would have been removed by our moderators.

  93. diannaart

    I wonder about people like Neil A. I doubt he is so bleeding obvious out in his real life. Here he can openly and without (literal) recourse, spew hatred towards those he fears/hates. Is he so easily identifiable where he may be subjected to view by his family, friends, business associates or others likely to ‘out’ him as a bully?

    He may well be one of those who “would never do anything to harm anyone” such as the nuns and pastoralist who held positions of authority (power) and were considered beyond question. He may hide behind lies he spreads about others. Only in blog-sites such as AIMN do we witness the entire foaming at mouth diatribe of hate.

    I have been loathe to add further to the attention heaped upon Neil A. As expected, responses to his hate are clear, succinct and reasonable – none of which will cause Neil A. to reflect upon the words of many who do not foster hatred of others for not conforming to some arbitrary dogma.

    Are our words more a source of comfort for ourselves? Rather than vain hope something will click in Neil A’s brain that he is part of the necessity to teach children about bullies and their multifarious forms.

  94. helvityni

    “Woman can do this also. Not all of them are saints.”

    Jack, I know this only too well, plenty of nasty, vindictive, jealous, unhappy women about.

    Men get physical, women use their words to hurt and to humiliate, fists versus tongues. 🙂

  95. Harquebus

    Not entirely related but, I thought some here might be interested in this.

    “Why did the UN choose the world’s leading promoter of gender inequality to sit on its gender equality commission?”
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-23/outrage-after-least-5-eu-nations-elect-saudi-arabia-un-womens-rights-council

    As far as bullies go, standing up to them regardless of the outcome has worked best for me. I know this does not work for everyone. Bullies seem to pick on those that can’t or won’t fight back.

    Cheers.

  96. Jack Straw

    And some Men are ATTENTION seekers helvityni

  97. Neil Aitchison

    The “homosexual agenda” is the title for the movement that started out as homosexuals (in the Netherlands in 2000) and then all the others alphabets jumped on board – even “unSafe Schools” got tagged into it all and redefining marriage as well, then “trans bathrooms”….none of these things are related, but they all got tagged into the homosexual agenda out of convenience (it’s easier to push them all together than separately and you can get more support when you broaden the net) – do you remember how the “same sex marriage” push a decade ago suddenly became “marriage equality” a few years ago?….that’s right, it changed because all the other alphabet activists jumped on board.

    Concerning homosexual animals: you can never know the desires of the animals when you research them, you can only see their actions and “guess” their desires….if homosexual animals ever existed (which there is no evidence that they ever have), they would have become extinct long ago because they cannot procreate to the next generation and animals that do same sex activities ONLY do it when no opposite sex animals are around and no penetration occurs – this is not the same as homosexual humans. I lived on a farm and saw bulls do this when they were locked away from the cows, but as soon as we let the bulls in with the cows, the bulls never jumped themselves, only the cows. Human homosexuals act entirely different. There is no evidence at all the homosexuality is natural…in every way it goes against natural biology.

    If homosexuals don’t want to be judged or have people pry into their bedrooms, then homosexuals should keep their sex acts in their bedrooms….but no, they parade their sexuality in the public streets, push it in parliaments and other public forums, push it on children in schools and indoctrinate it thru movies/arts/music/sports – there is no privacy there!….if the public reacts to their constant publicity, they then cry and whinge. If you sow the wind, then you reap the whirlwind.

    Emotive name-calling, mocking, slander or other fake criticisms don’t make me wrong – anyone have a valid refute to make?

  98. diannaart

    @Neil A

    Neil do you say the same things directly to anyone whose sexuality you regard as suspect? Claims you have made here online? Directly to their face? Have you provided evidence of your claims as well? While telling them how revolting you find them.

    You haven’t provided any evidence here on AIM, so asking for anyone to refute what are your judgements is pointless.

    You are making the claims, Neil. Where is the evidence?

  99. Jack Straw

    Pasta I don’t know if I support Gay marriage but I would say some gay people feel more comfortable together.A loving God would support peoples happiness regardless of their gender. Lets hope you get some help my son.

  100. Neil Aitchison

    Actually, a loving God would support “holiness”….see Romans 12:1-2. The “happiness” that humans desire is borne out of lust and pride: “pleasures of sin for a season”….see Hebrews 11:25. I have preached about this at https://vimeo.com/140504237 …..But the most comprehensive outline of God’s view on homosexuality and the results it creates is in Romans 1:22-32:

    22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

    23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things.

    24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

    25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

    27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

    29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

    30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

    31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

    32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

  101. Jack Straw

    I think you need to read some new books Neil . I can recommend anything by David Viscott.

  102. diannaart

    Thank you Neil A, for selecting your interpretation of the Abrahamic god. You have succeeded in providing further evidence of your prejudice, as if all the corrosive things you have written here was not already enough proof of your hatred and fear.

    What you have not done is answered any of my questions to you. A conversation, debate or disagreement is dependent on quid pro quo, Until you provide reason for your claims of hatred, you are wasting everyone’s time.

  103. Miriam English

    Neil, anything written by Paul of Tarsus is suspect. He never met Jesus. He was a pretty horrible person, and preached that people shouldn’t have children because the end of the world was coming in their lifetimes. He was a misogynist homophobe who sucked up to the powerful. That’s the antithesis of the image we have of Jesus, who preached tolerance and who liked to hang out with thieves and prostitutes, and advocated that people not judge each other.

    Many great people of the church have wanted Paul’s writings removed from the Bible. He is about as close to an antichrist as you could get.

    I’m disappointed you didn’t think to research the topic of same-sex-attraction among animals at all, rather than simply speak from your ignorance and prejudice. It is real and has been documented for a long time. They don’t change their orientation when members of the opposite sex are made available to them. Among cattle there is playful and hierarchical behavior that shows itself as mounting. That isn’t the same thing as love-bonding or even sex.

    The most heart-rending account I read was a study of wild geese by the noted naturalist Konrad Lorenz. He noticed that a pair of geese among those he was studying were both male. They went through all the elaborate courtship dances together and they returned from migration each year, bonded for life, as geese do. A female goose became enamoured with one of the males and would push herself between them each time they attempted to mate. She gave birth to a clutch of eggs and those goslings were much more successful than other geese because they had 3 parents looking after them. This odd triangle repeated year after year, until one year one of the males returned to the lake alone. His partner had likely been shot by hunters. He was inconsolable, with deep rings under his eyes and the kind of listless, mournful behavior you see in the heartbroken.

    If you had explored the literature at all instead of considering your prejudice sufficient you would have found that the genetic basis for same-sex-attraction persists because it brings real benefits to the rest of the population. In humans, for instance, gay members of the family tend to devote time and effort to helping their siblings raise their children. Same-sex-attracted people seem to contribute more to society than we would expect from their small numbers. Nobody knows why this is, but a disproportionate number of the greatest thinkers and creators are same-sex-attracted. This has great benefits for society. There is also recent research that indicates women who have gay brothers are more fertile than other women.

    But none of this matters. You hate who you hate and you’ll ignore Jesus’ words and prefer Paul’s, and you’ll damn anybody that provokes your ugly prejudices. You will do what you can to facilitate bullying in the name of your hate, putting you right there alongside the Ku Klux Klan, Vladimir Putin, Adolf Hitler, and other irrational haters of gays. And nothing any reasonable person says to you will ever change your mind.

  104. Jack Straw

    Neil do like 18c or would you like to get rid of it?

  105. Kaye Lee

    1 Peter 2:17 “Honor men of all sorts, have love for the whole association of brothers”

    “If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge? We shouldn’t marginalise people for this. They must be integrated into society.” – Pope Francis

  106. Roswell

    Neil, like you I find the thought of two men engaging in sexual practice revolting. Unlike you, I also find revolting the thought of these same two men not having the freedom to engage in a sexual practice together without condemnation.

  107. Kaye Lee

    Most people find the thought of their parents having sex revolting.

    http://media.salon.com/2013/08/536675_10151523447756643_520558438_n.jpg

  108. Rossleigh

    While on the subject of Paul, perhaps Neil would like to have a look at this from his good mate, Paul. 1 Corinthians 7-8

    7 Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.

    8 Now to the unmarried[a] and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do.

  109. Roswell

    Kaye, I remember a kid at school saying “Yuck, can you imagine the thought of our parents having sex? Geez, fancy 40 year olds screwing each other”.

    Dread the thought.

    “Screw”. Do they still use that word?

  110. Rossleigh

    There you go, the Bible isn’t against same sex marriage per se; it’s against all marriage and those chosing to marry must therefore be going against the will of God. Or Paul. Whatever. Neil seems to find them on an equal footing and who am I to disagree?

  111. Deanna Jones

    Michael, he suggested that Neil should be investigated because he has contact with children. I think that implies that he is suggesting that Neil is a risk to children. What else could it mean, if not that?

  112. Deanna Jones

    Neil, you’ve had more than your fair share of measured, enlightened, civil responses to your hate speech.

    Does it concern you when heteros don’t keep their sexuality out of the bedroom? Does Valentines Day offend you? What about heteros walking in the street holding hands, in front of children?

    I made the mistake of taking a quick peek at your awful website. What one earth is ‘biological marriage’?

  113. diannaart

    “You kin get anythin’ you want,
    At Abe’s bibilical restaurant…”

    You want a dish full of lovin’ your fellow man – order

    Leviticus 19

    19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

    or

    19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.

    or

    19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

    For a bowl brimming with hate:

    Leviticus 26

    26:23 And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me;

    26:24 Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.

    ..and a side of hell fires with any of that?

    There’s so much more although I can see why Neil A. is such a fearful person, that God of Abraham even when he’s ordering people to be kind, he remains very scary.

  114. Michael Taylor

    You are indeed correct, Deanna. I have since checked with our lawyer and at her recommendation the comment has been removed.

  115. Michael Taylor

    PS: my understanding was that you cannot make a claim. Apparently making a suggestion is also fraught with danger. The last thing I want is for any of the commenters here having action taken against them for defamation.

  116. Jack Straw

    Not sure I like peoples comments being removed even if I disagree with them.

  117. Michael Taylor

    And how about all that begating? The first couple of pages of the New Testament could have easily been mistaken for the first couple of pages of the Kama Sutra.

  118. Michael Taylor

    Not sure I like peoples comments being removed even if I disagree with them.

    That didn’t happen, and doesn’t happen.

    Comments are removed or edited solely because of either being defamatory or containing foul and threatening language.

  119. Jack Straw

    was that from Neil ?

  120. Michael Taylor

    Hi Jack. No, it wasn’t from Neil. Neil might have some old-fashioned views that appall us and rile us up a bit, but that’s all.

  121. Deanna Jones

    Roswell: “Neil, like you I find the thought of two men engaging in sexual practice revolting. Unlike you, I also find revolting the thought of these same two men not having the freedom to engage in a sexual practice together without condemnation.”

    Do you really think that first sentence is ok to say? Heterosexist hegemony really got to you in a big way, if any sexual preference other than yours’ becomes “revolting” in your mind. Besides, Neil doesn’t just hate gay men. He hates all gender variant people, non binary people, trans people, bisexuals, pansexuals, lesbians, you name it, he hates everyone but cis gendered straight people.

  122. Roswell

    Yeh I probably worded it wrong. Should have said the thought of me having sex with another man is repulsive. I don’t even visualise men having sex together, so it was definitely incorrect of me to say what I did.

    Mind you, some men find me appealing, I’m sure. 😀

  123. Deanna Jones

    Michael, I think it was a potentially risky comment to leave sitting there, as much as it pains me to say anything remotely defensive of Neil.

  124. Deanna Jones

    Roswell, I’m sure they do. You could just say “Hey I’m not into men that way” and no harm is done.

  125. corvus boreus

    Despite Neil only having watched bulls dry hump, same-sex genital penetration has been authoritatively documented as occurring amongst sexually differentiated animals comprising an enormous variety of species, both vertebrate and invertebrate.
    .
    I could link to various scientific literature on the subject (and even some explicit footage) for those who those who are morbidly or genuinely curious, but I expect that would be a relative minority.
    For those who are, I recommend, as a starting point, researching Bonobos (Pan paniscus), a very close relative of ours
    .
    Although animal behaviorists have forwarded various theories, the exact motivation behind such widespread displays of sexual activities without procreative function remains something of a scientific mystery.

    Ps, In my opinion, no true Christ-ian should resort to quoting Saul of Tarsus, who knew not Christ, nor Christ him.

  126. Matters Not

    Re contact with children. I made that suggestion on April 23, 2017 at 10:24 pm. If you care to check – the contact with children bit was about ‘literacy standards’ and Pastor Neil’s inadequacies in that regard and the poor role model he provides.

    While silky (accurately but selectively) cited my words, it was the meaning he gave to same that was problematic. I assume.

    I think it’s time that Pastor Neil, and his trolling behaviour, might be ‘put to bed’ as it were. The good Pastor doesn’t respond to questions, inquiries and the like. He acts in bad faith.

    Continue at your own discretion.

  127. Jack Straw

    Roswell what about a man having anal sex with a women? Do you find that revolting?

  128. Neil Aitchison

    Matters Not: thank you for your clarification. It would have been very dangerous for you to suggest criminal activity on my part and of course, we all assumed you meant “literacy standards”. At least you have the integrity to admit it – first time ever for a homosexual activist as far as I know.

    No back to the issue: the homosexual agenda is playing out in full force in these comments and it is helpful for me to see every emotive and propaganda slant being used in one series of comments. All that aside, the “unsafe Schools” has been exposed and all the complaining you are making won’t change it…..it is dead. nThe same goes for same sex marriage – it is past public importance and has also been exposed as a farce….so “continue at your own discretion” on another issue that is meaningful. You can take your pick from info I have on the web at (for example, I have “Equality Pens” coming on the market that will be a huge benefit to you, so check ’em out):

    http://www.users.on.net/~mec/evangelical/advertiser/index.html

  129. Kyran

    Does it strike anybody else as odd that an article about bullying was bullied by a bully?
    At least we now talk about sexual proclivities.
    At least we now talk about ‘god’ telling us how to live.
    Let us all kneel.
    Personally, “I’d rather die on my feet, than live on my knees.”
    For what it’s worth, take care

  130. Roswell

    I won’t bother responding to that, Jack.

  131. Kaye Lee

    When a bully tries to denigrate someone (or a whole group in society) it is up to all of us to stand up and say stop it.

    The standards you walk past are the standards you accept.

  132. Miriam English

    With his latest comment Neil has shown that he is merely a troll.
    Such people comment only to provoke others and as such are beneath contempt.

  133. Matters Not

    Neil Aitchison April 24, 2017 at 7:31 pm

    I’ll follow my own advice and not respond to trolls. Except to repeat my earlier advice – don’t respond to trolls. Don’t get sucked into debating with an obviously illiterate Pastor.

    While those who give financial or legal advice are called into account, those who advise at an even higher level get off scot free.

  134. Jack Straw

    Neil I am not a homosexual just very broadminded about life. I’m sure you and Roswell will get on famously.He could become a good disciple for you.

  135. Roswell

    Jack, you really are becoming pathetic.

  136. Tracie

    No need to comment further please Jack. Please remember personal stuff that happens in bedrooms is personal. It’s why I won’t be commenting on any of your other comments. Roswell doesn’t need to respond to you about his personal situation, just like you don’t need to respond about yours, and I certainly won’t respond about mine.

    Actually, this is the point about the whole article. Leave bedroom stuff in the bedroom, please.

  137. Matters Not

    Tracie, surely it’s legitimate that Jack talks about sexual practices that occur (or don’t) in bedrooms (and elsewhere) across the nation(s)?

    If not, then why not?

    When it comes to ‘bullying’ what are the limits? Clearly the ‘personal’ is not off limits. Any guidelines?

    Nothing personal by the way.

  138. Tracie

    Well we know what bullying entails, but talking about sexual practices can lead to many mind boggling questions. Unless you’re in the bedroom with me, I’d rather keep people guessing what I like and don’t like. I’m positive every single person would feel the same way. It’s quite intrusive, wouldn’t you think?

    I mean, if we get down to it, it would be like me demanding to know in great detail how you do it (please don’t answer this!).

    In relation to bullying, I feel that I need to stand up for myself. I can get extra vocal in my defence, as I did have it so rough. It shouldn’t have to be this way. It’s why we really do need Safe Schools.

  139. Michael Taylor

    Perhaps I could ask you to set an example, MN, and tell us about yours. It seems to be all the rage to ask people here about their bedroom habits.

    But I won’t ask. It’s your business. It should stay your business.

  140. Matters Not

    MT and Tracie – why are you making this discussion personal? I’m not. I’m talking about ‘principles’. Look above.

    As for ‘mind boggling’ questions. That’s what I am always on about.

    What about you?

  141. Michael Taylor

    MN, it looked to me that you were supporting and encouraging Jack Straw’s probe into Roswell’s sex life. My apologies if I am wrong.

  142. Jack Straw

    I am just trying to raise The Bar on this issue.Thanks Matters not.Sometimes peoples conservatism and modesty prevents them from having a holistic discussion.Tracie I don;t care what people do in their bedrooms, It seems some are happy to make observations on what others do.M Pretty sure I didn’t pry into his sex life.

  143. Michael Taylor

    Jack, was anybody named? No, there wasn’t.

  144. Matters Not

    MT re:

    it looked to me

    As I have suggested on numerous occasions, the writer has no control over the meaning that will be given by the reader. The meaing given by the reader is always a source of ‘mystery’.

    As for:

    Jack Straw’s probe into Roswell’s sex life

    Perhaps an unfortunate choice of words? probe into .. sex life Or at least, that’s the meaning I give.

    But it matters not

  145. Michael Taylor

    OK. Perhaps we can get back to the topic then.

  146. Jack Straw

    I can;t type because of my tears of laughter. ;;; Just too funny MN We all could be writing British Farce.

  147. Matters Not

    Before I depart can I cite this set of words:

    Well we know what bullying entails

    I don’t. Perhaps I’m not part of the ‘we’? Perhaps I might need a definition?

    I’ve always found that ‘common sense’ under examination doesn’t provide insight. Indeed I’ve found that it’s not that ‘common’ and usually not ‘sensible’.

  148. Tracie

    MN, I gave many examples in my article. Btw, calling someone a bully is not bullying. Calling someone a name like “Mr Peabody” (yes, as a female it was one of the names I was called due to very thick glasses), “big ears”, “four eyes”, “Medusa” (when my mother had my hair permed), and the like were really nasty. I have deliberately forgotten other names I was called. Every single thing I did or every way I looked gave them cause for ridicule.

    Perhaps do a search yourself on the interweb? I’m sure you could find many definitions there.

  149. Matters Not

    Tracie, I should stress that I have the utmost sympathy for your situation(s) both past and present – as described.

    My failing is that I like to discuss ‘ideas’ and in so doing I (necessarily) leave out the personal. Please accept my sincere apologies.

  150. Neil Aitchison

    To corvus boreus: “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”….so regardless of who penned it, it is revelation from God and hence it is called God’s Word (John 1:1 – “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” If you reject any part of it, you detract from God’s Word regardless whether Paul knew Christ or not. It is a cop-out to ignore God’s warning especially when we see the Romans passage (which I quoted before) being fulfilled today EXACTLY as God said. It proves itself without me having to defend it.

    To Roswell: If the homosexuals keep their sex acts private then we would all be happy, but the reason there is discussion going on is because they are making it full-faced public….hence there is the responses from people like me. So do us all a favour and do whatever you want in private so that the rest of us don’t have to respond to it!….trying to redefine marriage by changing the Marriage Act and trying to make homosexuality look acceptable in schools makes it a public issue that affects everyone – you can’t have it both ways.

    To Deanna Jones: I never see heteros parading around the streets naked and imitating sex acts on Valentines Day – so comparing Valentines Day to the Gay and Lesbian parades is futile….an honest person would know this. Also…..yes, it does concern me when heteros don’t keep their sexuality in their bedrooms. I run surfing trips as part of our church ministries and when promiscuity occurs, I say something against it – the only successful societies that have existed is when family bonds are solid created by sex within male-female marriages (for life) with children being raised by their biological mother and father. Any alternative is lesser and what we see today is the aggressive attack on marriage to destroy it for Marxist socialist purposes (ie. the State wants to control people without competition from other community groups like families, churches, etc)).

    To diannaart: ….hmmm….you talk about “quid pro quo” and ask questions, but are you being genuine when all your previous posts are prejudiced against my opinion?….should I treat your questions seriously when you aren’t being serious in asking them?….anyhow, here is my answer: Quoting the Old Testament Law to try and show a contradiction is a futile effort because the OT Law was fulfilled by Christ and so Christ fulfills the OT Law on my behalf (Matt 5:17 – “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil” also 2 Cor 2:21 – “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him”)….so that is why there is a New Commandment given by Christ (John 13:34 – “A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another”). Hence, there is no contradiction and no guilt-trip going on when you sting me with OT Law quotes. Showing love is explaining dangerous practices to impressionable people (like children) in the hope that they aren’t hurt by the homosexual trickery. They need to be fully informed and not groomed into gay culture for political purposes.

  151. Jack Straw

    Gee! Neil there nothing there for me I am most dissapointed. I’d like you to Read my favorite book. Green Eggs and Ham. Was he right at the end that he really does like green eggs and ham or was he coheresed ? like MN i am an ideas man

  152. Miriam English

    Neil, I wasn’t going to respond to your baiting, but I wonder if you don’t consider lying by omission a sin. When you say “trying to redefine marriage by changing the Marriage Act” you make it sound like you don’t know that gay people just want the marriage act put back to how it was. John Howard altered the Marriage Act unilaterally, without mandate from the Australian community.

    As for naked people at Gay Pride marches, now you are flat-out lying.

    I’ve often wondered if over-the-top costumes at Gay Pride may be counterproductive by dragging morally stunted people too rapidly into the 21st Century, but I must admit it does seem to be having some positive effect in alleviating some of the more extreme forms of bullying, such as beating gays literally to death for merely existing, which used to be fairly common, but is thankfully disappearing now.

    Don’t you feel any guilt for the deaths that result from your enabling vicious bullying of children which Safe Schools was trying to stem? Or do you think a few children’s lives are worth it for the sake of intimidating gays into invisibility again?

    The most compelling disproof of your religion is the way it inspires its followers to hate innocent people and collude in their injury and death while piously absolving yourselves of it.

    And the good book… How easy would it have been for god to point out how evil slavery is? How much misery and death would that have stopped? How easy would it have been to give some actual useful information, such as that germs cause disease, or that the Earth goes around the Sun, or that our Sun is an average star, one of the countless ones you see at night, or that vitamins keep deficiency diseases away, or that we need very low amounts of protein, or even what protein is. Instead, the all-knowing god gave only the information that a Bronze Age person would already know, then later, an Early Iron Age person.

    Any half-competent writer today can write a document so that it can’t be misinterpreted, but Christianity has split into more than 800 variants due to arguments over the meanings of numerous parts of the Bible.

    Above all, the hundreds of contradictions in the Bible show clearly that it was written by and inspired by man.

  153. corvus boreus

    Neil,
    So in your view, by rejecting, amongst other perversions and atrocities cited in the bible, the passages condoning/demanding blood sacrifice, compulsory genital mutilation, the mass murder of captive civilians (women and children) and the enslavement of virgin girls, and viewing such acts as thoroughly sick and repulsive behavior, I am rejecting the ‘revealed word of god’ (as edited and redacted by the Roman Council of Nicea)?

    Then I guess, despite agreeing with some of the passages in some of the books (eg, some of Jesus’ attributed sermons actually make good moral sense), I overall reject what you claim to be the word and will of your god (solo humanoid with penis variant).
    This is good in that I am freed of any obligation to blindly believe some patently absurd crap (eg most of Genesis).

    Ps, Many animals, Homo sapiens included, display proclivities towards same-gender sexual behaviors. It’s just part of how the natural world seems to works, so I suggest that you get over it and stop morbidly obsessing over the sex lives of others.

  154. Deanna Jones

    Neil, doesn’t your so-called ‘god’ have a rule about lying? You are breaking that rule, because you are lying your head off about Mardi Gras, children, and biological families. I can tell that you have never even been to a parade at all, because there is no sex in the parade, or even at the after party. There is no substance to your lies. Also, a lot of the parade onlookers are hetero, and they are there loving every minute of the celebration.

    About biological families, go and have a bit of a read about things like family violence and child abuse, because guess what? Those issues are predominantly hetero issues. Do you know, in the state of NSW alone, there are approximately 20 000 children currently under the care of the minister, because they have been removed from their biological families, the vast majority of whom are heteros. How about that? Some studies actually showed that non heteros make better parents than heteros. There are many LGBT foster parents in this country. I know some. I’ve worked with some as clients, and I would have to say that they often make excellent foster carers, particularly for very high needs children who have been abused by heteros.

    Rates of family violence in this country, and indeed, across the globe, are, as you would of course be aware, horrendous. So far this year in Oz, 12 women have been killed by their hetero male partners. 71 last year, and 80 the year before.

    I suggest you also do some reading about the cheating industry, which you would probably call infidelity. It would appear that many many hetero people covet their neighbour’s husbands and wives. There are myriad online systems designed specifically by and for hetero people, to facilitate convenient extra marital sex. So it seems that these hetero people don’t really value the marriage institution quite as much as you think. Start your Google search with the terms “Ashley Maddison”.

    You might also like to read up on the issue of toxic monogamy culture, a predominantly hetero issue. You know those boring straight couples who seem to have merged into one identity?

    So given the above evidence, one could easily conclude that it is those immoral heteros who are the real problem in today’s society. Just what is going on, Neil? What is it with all these heteros and what can we do about it?

    Also, stop lying.

  155. Kaye Lee

    It is utterly impossible to reason with someone who thinks a book written thousands of years ago should determine our laws.

    Matthew 10:34-35 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother-in-law. And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.

  156. Harquebus

    Neil Aitchison
    “so regardless of who penned it, it is revelation from God and hence it is called God’s Word”
    Prove it and in the mean time, stop indoctrinating kids to your religion. You and your kind are the result of this abominable practice.
    The sooner that we are rid of the dehumanizing ideologies of religions, the sooner the world will become a better place.
    Cheers.

  157. corvus boreus

    There is a certain irony in the fact that, whilst Pastor Neil indiscriminately disparages homosexuals as being sexually promiscuous (only about the sex), he simultaneously seeks to deny them the right to make a symbolic statement of their commitment to a relationship based on monogamous love through the ceremony of marriage.
    Then again, logical and ethical consistency is not exactly a strong point of religious fundamentalists/bigots.

  158. corvus boreus

    Kaye Lee,
    So you don’t agree that a virgin girl who was raped by a man should, by law, be compelled to marry him after he compensates her father to the tune of 50 shekels (that is, of course, unless the rape occured within the walls of a town, in which case the victim should be stoned to death alongside her rapist)?
    Shame on you for disputing the revealed words of god.

  159. Kaye Lee

    cb,

    One of my personal favourites is the prohibition of the squirrel grip

    Deuteronomy 25:11 “If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, 12 then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity.”

  160. Jack Straw

    Kaye- And fair enough I reckon. re Squirrel Gripp

    And can I ask were these sections in The Bible ever demonstrated in Sunday School?

  161. Kaye Lee

    I went to Sunday school for about 10 years. They concentrated on the good stuff. I enjoyed it. I went to bible studies for quite a while after that. I don’t recall any of the weird stuff being discussed but I topped an exam and got a Bible Reader’s Concordance as a prize. That was a bit of an eye-opener and got me looking a bit deeper. Now the internet makes it possible to find biible quotes about pretty much anything – even squirrel grips. I find it very interesting to think about the reasons behind biblical rules. That one really underlines it is all about the protection of men.

  162. Miriam English

    My favorite part is where the townspeople bring a woman accused of adultery to Jesus, demanding she be stoned to death in accordance with the law, and Jesus calmly says that the one of them without sin should be the one to cast the first stone. It really is a brilliant piece. The only problem is that it is a forgery, inserted by some nameless transcriber in a monastery during the Dark Ages. We know this because we have the texts before it was inserted and the texts after, and a rough idea of the time it was added.

    The silliest bit… well, there are lots of silly bits, but one of the worst is the prohibition against cutting your hair, and the prohibition against growing your hair long. No wonder Christians are confused.

    Oh hang on, perhaps this is the silliest bit: meek and mild Jesus is hungry and spies a fig tree with no fruit so he loses his temper and curses it, “May you never bear fruit again!” so it withers away.

    More dumb stuff:
    ✧ No bastards may enter church. Yeah. It’s the kid’s fault that his parents didn’t get married.
    ✧ Women will never teach or have authority over men — huh? Like Sunday school?
    ✧ Even a look counts as adultery — nutty.
    ✧ Women must cover their hair during prayer… so the Muslim women are better than Christian women.
    ✧ If your brother dies it is the right thing to screw his wife. Eeewww.
    ✧ Giving birth to a daughter makes you unclean for 66 days… seriously???
    ✧ If you disobey god he might make you eat your babies — he’s done it before. What’s he got against kids?
    ✧ People with deformities, or even just blemishes aren’t allowed in the church or to approach the altar, whichever way you read it.

    The word of god. Yeah, right.

  163. Neil Aitchison

    To Kaye Lee: thankyou for your insightful comment – in fact, you are the only one here that gets it!…..I can add to your comment/quote about Matthew 10:34-35 because Christ is not only creating variance, but also a clash of wisdom in 1 Corinthians 2:4-5 – “And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.”….indeed there is a clash between limited, mutable and feeble human wisdom and God’s unlimited, immutable and omniscient wisdom – so trying to reconcile erroneous and subjective humanist/atheist/non-religious philosophies and ideologies with the absolute objective truth as the Creator God made them is infinitely separate (never the twain shall meet)…..plus, the flesh (human desires) is at enmity (conflict) with God’s desires (Gal 5:17 – “For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”).

    In fact, God goes way further than any of the verses we have mentioned…the rift is SO great, that the anti-Christian people are going to start killing off Christians in an attempt to silence the Biblical opposition to their hedonistic society and socialist ideological utopia (that’s right, I will be in the firing zone) all in the name of “love, tolerance and equality”….this is where flesh-driven societies end up going. Of course, so much calamity occurs in the process that 2/3 world population is destroyed and a world leader takes over to claim to be “god” that you must worship him or die yourself. The deception is HUGE and we are seeing this process start now. The end result is a world war resulting in the complete annihilation of ALL life on earth if it wasn’t for the intervention of God when Jesus Christ returns the second time (ie. the “Second Coming of Christ”)…..so why would I agree and support your ideas that lead to all this?….that is the real clash going on in the world, not only with homosexuality, but with a million other social, economic, political and military issues.

    The alternative option is to yield to the Creator God’s plan as He designed the universe to function and receive the benefits of Biblical insight into world events (the Bible clearly explains all things in the world that human science/knowledge/comprehension cannot work out), and eternal life as well because Jesus Christ paid for all my wrong doings on the cross in my place. He then arose victorious over sin and death. We all have a choice to make and there are only two paths that we can go – God’s way to life or man’s way to destruction (Matthew 7:13-14 – “Enter ye in at the strait (narrow) gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”). I have made my choice, what will yours be?

  164. Kaye Lee

    Except the Bible is a book written, and many times translated, by “limited, mutable and feeble” men.

    “the anti-Christian people are going to start killing off Christians in an attempt to silence the Biblical opposition to their hedonistic society and socialist ideological utopia (that’s right, I will be in the firing zone)”

    An international plot to kill you? You think you are that important?

    “I have made my choice, what will yours be?”

    I think I’ll stick with being rational. Backing away slowly…..

  165. Neil Aitchison

    To Miriam English: the Howard amendment of the Marriage Act reflected the Common Law position dating back centuries (as outlined in Hyde v. Hyde and Woodmansee) and what you are talking about if the wording was reversed is to exploit the lack of definition about Marriage and change marriage away from the Common Law position and place a brand new definition of marriage that includes same sex couples (btw, many of the LGBTIQAP+ people will still miss out on “marriage” even with the change being proposed so there is hardly any “equality” going on) – sorry, but I am not so naive or ignorant to be fooled by your stunt. Before the marriage amendment in 2004, how many homosexuals got married (even after the decriminalization of homosexuality in the 1990s)?….ANSWER: none….because marriage was always considered a heterosexual thing and even now, the only interest in homosexuals getting married is a superficial attempt t make homosexuality look acceptable. It ain’t about marriage at all or about “love, equality or human rights”. It’s an attempt to normalize homosexuality in society using deceptive, emotive propaganda slogans to try and fool people. The Marxists have sabotaged the agenda by using homosexuals as pawns to destroy marriage for their own political purposes – the homosexuals are being fooled (and damaged) by the socialist extremists as well. If you want to find a target to attack, it’s the Marxists who are treating you all like fools.

  166. Neil Aitchison

    To Kaye Lee:…..fair comment and from a human point of view, it is in faith that we make our choice. I have made mine and you have made yours…..so down our paths (albeit different paths) we go…..

  167. Rossleigh

    Good God, comrades, Neil is onto us. He’ll be there to stop us giving to the poor, helping to heal the sick and showing concern for our fellow man… Probably part of the homosexual agenda…
    No Christian could possible want such things. After all, didn’t Jesus say the way to heaven is have the best camel and the most needles?

  168. Kaye Lee

    “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.”

    Evil stuff indeed

  169. LOVO

    The old church around the corner from my place was bought buy a gay couple. They have spent a lot of money doing it up and it is now a home and art gallery….it’s nice to see it has, finally, become a useful space.

  170. Rossleigh

    But, LOVO, is that part of the “homosexual agenda”, or part of the Marxist plan to destroy families.

  171. Tracie

    But Rossleigh, EVERYTHING is Marxist, unless it’s not. But then it still could be, undercover. And it’s ALWAYS a homosexual agenda. Just ask Neil. He knows EVERYTHING, including how to hate with relish.

    Seriously, I do love your satirical humour. It goes down a treat!

  172. Rossleigh

    Tracie, I think Neil’s earlier comment betrays a limited concept of the complexities of the world. For example, he talks about the marxists using “homosexuals as pawns” – thankfully not as one of the other chess pieces – completely oblivious to the fact that some marxists may actually be gay themselves.

  173. Neil Aitchison

    The ” the squirrel grip” is not sexual, nor is David kissing Jonathon as a loving friend – no homosexuality going on in any of these (or other) Biblical instances…..Sodom and Gomorrah being the exception. But these are diversions away from the issue of bullying and “unSafe Schools”. We don’t have a crystal ball to know where “being rational” will lead us and even the term “being rational” is subjective and debatable….after all, I am “being rational” in my belief in God and His Word yet you disagree, so all you can do from a human point of view is disagree with my “rational” compared to your “rational”. You can cite “facts” but we also see many “facts” change as science discovery continues – from history, we see that humans “being rational” can lead to a lot of mistakes and destruction so there is not much “being rational” to put your trust in.

    I won’t specifically be targeted by anti-Christians, but Christians in general will be targetted (me being one of them). I have already been in the firing zone in various ways but I expect things to get far, far worse as the persecution intensifies by the “loving, equal and tolerant” anti-Christians. The homosexual agenda is just one of many anti-Christ agendas in play: cashless society, centralisation of governments under a world leader, killing Christians, identification mark for buying/selling (“Mark of the Beast”), alignment of countries against Israel (outlined in Ezekiel 38)…..plus much, much more all prophesied in the Bible and playing out in world events TO THE LETTER. If you want to know the front page news in tomorrows newspaper, read the Bible.

  174. Rossleigh

    Of course, one could quote that man who was trying to destroy the family: “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple”

    I think his name was Jesus and you can check the quote out in Luke Ch 14 Verse 16…
    He must have been a real marxist, not only that – he supported the homosexual agenda by roaming around with a dozen or so men.

  175. Rossleigh

    If David and Jonathon were “just good friends” why did Saul worry about their relationship and want to have David killed, eh, Neil? Seems a rather strange reaction.

  176. Jack Straw

    Neil is the same type as the character as Alfred Davidson a self-righteous missionary man that seeks to save the soul of a former prostitute Miss Sadie Thompson in the old movie Rain written by W. Somerset Maugham. Different time same theme.

  177. Neil Aitchison

    Saul was worried because David was a challenger to Saul’s throne as King of Israel, so Saul didn’t want Jonathan to side with David due to their friendship instead of siding with Saul (who was Jonathon’s father) – the prophet Samuel had already anointed David as King and denounced Saul at this time, so Saul was fighting for his throne – nothing to do with homosexuality. But thanks for asking.

    Look at the Marxist activities and compare them to the homosexual activities – was the trashing of Cory Bernardi’s office helping the homosexual cause?….or the death threats to the hotel where Christian’s were going to meet and the meeting had to be cancelled?…plus other militia examples?….how does the aggression help the homosexuals?….ANSWER: it doesn’t….and who did all these aggressive activities?….ANSWER: the Socialist Alliance, not homosexual activities. Anyhow, think about it a bit and look at the forest instead of the trees and you will see what I am talking about. I feel sorry for the homosexuals in this regard because it is now out of their control, the activism is now run by a different crowd with a different agenda. The homosexuals will get discarded once their usefulness is finished….this is why you can’t rely of the leftie politicians to get your marriage laws passed – they have different ideas.

  178. LOVO

    My grandfather used to rip out the last page of the Bible’s that you find in hotel and motel rooms ….he said he did it “so the bastards couldn’t find out how the story ends.” 😆

  179. Kaye Lee

    Religion is all het up about some New World Order because they have been doing very well out of their tyrranical control for thousands of years and they sure as hell don’t want to give it up now. They talk about the takeover of schools by some Marxist cadre – we can’t have that now can we because religion has successfully controlled education for centuries, brainwashing children with the idea that they are born with original sin and will languish in limbo or burn in the fires of hell if they have bad thoughts or question the Word of the Lord (peace be to Allah).

    And this is the real fear that Neil is showing. If people reject his myths he has no more control. He is just another guy selling tacky t-shirts like the one with a picture of a wheelie-bin with the pithy saying “We recycle bottles, cans, paper … but throw away babies? Thou shalt not murder!”

  180. Miriam English

    You’re being paranoid Neil. There truly is no homosexual agenda. The book you mentioned earlier as the casebook for the homosexual agenda was in fact rejected by most gays in its time. It is now out of print and has been for some years. I hadn’t even heard of it til you brought it up. If there was a genuine agenda don’t you think none of those would be so.

    I know you probably won’t listen to it, but just in case you have some honesty and integrity, here is an interview with Hunter Madsen 2 years ago about his part in writing that book.
    Dr Hunter Madsen and the Homosexual Agenda
    http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/local/sundaynights/201506/r1442428_20897394.mp3

    Nobody is out to get you, even despite all the hate you preach. Gay people are generally embarrassed for you and sorry for you that you could have it all so wrong.

    The world isn’t getting worse. Ask any criminologist. We live in the most peaceful time in history and the violent crime rate has been dropping for hundreds of years. People are actually more moral and respectful of each other than ever before.

    Women and children now have rights, racism is frowned upon, slavery is virtually non-existent, even animals now have some rights, and people understand that they wreck the natural world at their peril. Most people hate war these days, whereas not long ago most people loved it and commonly spoke of it as a grand adventure, and a “manly” thing.

    It always amazes me that religious folk almost invariably think things are getting worse, despite all the clear evidence to the contrary. I know it’s easy to be lazy and believe the sensationalist news-machine and to not actually look into the reality, and I know all ancient literature has been saying for many thousands of years that it’s all going to the dogs and the end of the world is just around the corner, and I know there’s some kind of loopy comfort in believing in doom because it confirms your superstitions. But good grief, man!

    One last thing: rationality is not subjective. It is objective. That’s the whole point about rationality. It is not a set of clothes you can decide to wear based on whether you like it or not. Rationality has to fit objective facts or else it is irrational.

    Believing mythology is not rational. It is especially irrational when it has been disproved over and over again.

    (I’m surprised I’m sucked into replying on this yet again.)

  181. Deanna Jones

    People are becoming less religious, Miriam, which must be very scary for the Neils, who are so invested in the associated power that goes with adhering to the ideology a major power force. Not all xtians are like that though, it should be said.

  182. silkworm

    The earliest gospel is the gospel of Mark. The earliest version of that gospel that we have ends with Jesus dying on the cross. There is no resurrection. That bit was added later.

    The resurrection is fictional, like all the other “miracles.”

    Then again, if you take out all the fictional and contradictory bits looking for the historical core of the Jesus figure, you end up with a mundane figure like Judas of Galilee, the founder of the zealot movement. It was probably Judas of Galilee who was crucified by Pilate.

    It was the hope of zealous Jews that Judas would return from the dead to overthrow the Romans, and it was probably this belief that underlies the story of Jesus’ resurrection from the dead, as well as Matthew’s account of the resurrection of the saints, which of course is a fictional account, but probably still based on the belief that when Judas was resurrected, his army of zealots would be resurrected with him, and storm Jerusalem.

  183. silkworm

    “We all have a choice to make and there are only two paths that we can go.”

    Yes, there are two paths we can go by, but in the long run, there’s still time to change the road you’re on.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8oGz0mxwks

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