Ban the Use of the Word “Jihadist” By the Media and Politicians
Imagine the boss calls everyone to a meeting and announces that Trevor just got the Assistant Manager’s job. “It was a strong field,” he continues, “and I’d just like to assure Jim that it wasn’t because he’s black that Trevor won the job over him. We have many fine black employees and the vast majority of them do a good job. As for Moira, well, she’s an excellent worker and the fact that she’s a woman didn’t even enter our heads when deciding the next assistant manager. So let’s all give Trevor a round of applause…”
Yes, that’s the way to do it. The boss has clearly made Jim and Moira feel much better and reassured them that the firm welcomes them and is in no way racist or sexist, hasn’t he? There’d be no lingering resentment after something like that.
And I guess that’s the thing that starting to concern me when I read about the “terror raids”. On one hand, the media emphasises their Islamic faith and uses words like “jihadist”* (whatever that actually means), then it goes on to make the point that these people being arrested aren’t typical of Islamic people.
After all, how strange would the following sound:
Christian serial rapist, Wayne Kerr was taken in to custody today. Police acting on DNA evidence were able to identify Kerr as the man behind a number of attacks. The Premier praised the work of police in catching him and wanted to stress the vast majority of Christians weren’t rapists and found his actions abhorrent.
OR
Presbyterian investment banker I. G. Reedy was arrested after it was discovered that he had defrauded the company of over $3 million dollars. The Prime Minister said he hoped that people wouldn’t hold all Presbyterians responsible for this shameful act.
So why do the words Islamic or Muslim have to be attached to these stories at all? Particularly when there seems to some sort of understanding that it’s more about politics than religion.
Which sort of brings me to the wonderful re-tweet from Jaqui Lambie
.
I don’t know about anyone else, but it strikes me as odd that when looking at that image that it’s the burqa and not the pistol that someone sees as threatening. Perhaps it should be labelled: “Ban the Burqa but let this person keep the pistol, taking guns away from people is an invasion of their civil liberties!”
But I guess that’s the sort of Alice-in-Wonderland world we live in, where a growth is unemployment is because we’re fixing the economy and you don’t have to keep all your promises just the ones you actually meant. Where we righteously condemn beheadings as “barbaric” and say that this is taking us back hundreds of years, ignoring the fact that the USA still executes people and a Saudi man was recently tried and then beheaded for “witchcraft and sorcery”. A world where we acknowledge that ISIL are doing things to shock and disturb us – why else would they film and distribute it, after all – but the media organisations think that they should assist the terrorists to spread the word by having front page photos of those about to be beheaded, and politicians who cite “Operational Matters” on almost everything suddenly find it reasonable to tell us in detail exactly what these publicity-seeking assassins are doing.
Still, the five pages devoted to the terror raids managed to take both the Royal Commission into unions AND Moreland City Council off the front page in the Murdoch Misinformation Unit this morning. (Moreland City Council, for those who haven’t read Rupert’s Rag aka “The Herald-Sun” should be sacked and administrators appointed because they’re insulted Jill Meagher’s memory by not installing CCTV cameras in Sydney Road quickly enough AND they’ve been wasting ratepayers money by opposing the East-West Freeway link in court. Stories about this are accompanied by a photo of Jill Meagher to make us aware that this is all about her and not some vendetta to attack a democratically elected council because it’s views are different from the paper.)
Would be a shame if all this terrorism stuff made us feel that the Royal Commission didn’t really matter all that much and was really a waste of money!
It’s already led to Mr Abbott cutting short his trip to Arnheim Land thereby, not really breaking his promise to spend a week there because, as we all know, changing circumstances are a perfectly good reason to break your word. I’m sure the aboriginal people will understand, because most of them are decent, law-abiding people who just want to be part of Team Australia.
*Although this is from Wikipedia, I think it’s worth pointing out
Jihad –
is an Islamic term referring to a religious duty of Muslims. In Arabic, the word jihād is a noun meaning “struggle” or “resisting”. A person engaged in jihad is called a mujahid, the plural of which is mujahideen. The word jihad appears frequently in the Quran,[1][2] often in the idiomatic expression “striving in the way of God (al-jihad fi sabil Allah)“.[3][4][5]
Muslims and scholars do not all agree on its definition. Within the context of the classical Islamic law, it refers to struggle against those who do not believe in the Islamic God (Allah) and do not acknowledge the submission to Muslims,[6] and so is often translated as “Holy War”,[7][8][9] although this term is controversial.[10]
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Return to home pageThe Jews used to kidnap gentile children and sacrifice them in their religious ceremonies, It was common knowledge in Germany in the 1930s
God knows how many thousands of skinheads and general-purpose ratbags are calling for Muslim blood on conservitard websites.
One such git featured in a TV news report, recently.
He was talking about reviving the Cronulla Riot, but he was careful not to specify a time or place.
If I see a nun on the street, should I frisk her for weapons?
If we must ban the burqa, we must also kick the habit.
Cory whats his name, sent a tweet or something alike out, “every house the police raided today had women behind the doors with burqas on and this was a real threat to us Aussies,” went on to say “this is suppression of women in our country and the burqa should be banned”……..
this comes from a bloke who is only in parliament to oppress and suppress women with his medieval thinking obviously he thinks their are better ways to suppress women like banning abortion,
what a hypocrite Cory whats his name is…how do these backward monkeys get into our parliament, it’s got me stuffed how they do….
Haven’t seen a nun in a habit for a long time but many crimes are committed by people wearing hoodies, so I say we have to ban hoodies.
Let criminals go back to wearing stocking and balaclavas as some people are complaining that as they aren’t allowed to wear a motorbike helmet into a bank, burqas should be banned too.
PS. These remarks are spot on 🙂
“Christian serial rapist, Wayne Kerr was taken in to custody today. Police acting on DNA evidence were able to identify Kerr as the man behind a number of attacks. The Premier praised the work of police in catching him and wanted to stress the vast majority of Christians weren’t rapists and found his actions abhorrent.
OR
Presbyterian investment banker I. G. Reedy was arrested after it was discovered that he had defrauded the company of over $3 million dollars. The Prime Minister said he hoped that people wouldn’t hold all Presbyterians responsible for this shameful act.”
Corvus I hear they hide some pretty nasty weapons under them habits, very sharp double edged crosses,
yep ban the habit and that will make our streets safer for sure,
those Christians can be radical zealots driven to terrorism and sexual assault/rape by those big bad priests ya know…
Abbott, is always on saying not all Islamic’s are terrorists, some are decent people, his assumed liberal thinking of a superior, moral judge, is enough to make one, did he not become a Rhodes Scholar? another example of how dumb you can become even if one is well educated?
nice piece ross. love the xstian analogy. I saw one in the same vein with the KKK.
There are two subset points for me.
The photo is the first I have seen that actually shows the cultural dress for parts of Pakistan ie burqa.
In Australia a photo of the niqab, the Saudi cultural dress, is always shown(liz hayes et al prefer the beguiling eyes over the confessional style grill)
The second is what do the Aborigines, the aboriginal people of Australia, have to do to get the respect of a capital letter for the noun and adjective? In context the aboriginal people of NZ are the Maori.
Dear crow,
A nun wears clothing decided by a religious order giving her no choice.
Despite the hard work by ignorant or disingenuous journalists the burqa, niqab etc are not religious clothes and women, in theory. have a choice to wear or not depending on the cultural strength of the family.
It will be a different story when the media drive the dress into Ilam.
Billymoir,
Who you calling ‘crow’?
For what it’s worth, I think banks(and any other establishment) should be able to request the removal of any garment/item that conceals the face, or refuse entry.
I also believe police have the right to request anyone in public show their face to identify themselves if requested.
I do not support exemptions from the law on the land based upon theological beliefs full stop.
I don’t support the singling out of any people in specifically discriminatory legislation.
Thanks, Peter. Now do some similar research into the Jewish and Christian Bible and see what you come up with.
Let’s ban ladies in burqas who have guns.
As for ladies in burqas without guns, I don’t give a damn.
# I’d ban businessmen in suits who have guns as well.
For starters Luke chapter 12 49 “I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”
DanDark, you are in big trouble because you agree with a bot! (That would be me, BTW)
Numbers 31,17; “Take you, therefore, and put to the sword all the boy-children. Put to the sword all the women who have known a man. Keep alive, for yourselves, all the girl-children who have not known a man.”
The ‘prophet’ Moses, supposedly ‘righteous’ recipient of Jahweh’s 10 commandments, giving orders to his men after aggressively conquering the Midianite people.
Yep, those Christians who talk about peace clearly are “second rate” and not following the commands of the Bible
Psalm 137 ends with
“Happy is the one who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks.”
Great bible quotes! Love it!
<
Absolutely astounding the number of "Comments" quoting sections of the koran.
Its either Australia has a lot of right wing students studying the koran at muslim schools across Australia ….. or they are just total halfwit religious xenophobic nutters.
lol I am in big trouble cos I agree with you Claude,, um I doubt that very much, I would prefer it if you left me alone because basically you are a fool Claude and I don’t deal with fools well 🙂 Have a great night….
Excellent article.
The BBC has a good explainer on jihad http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/beliefs/jihad_1.shtml
The ABC has bit of a background to the meme Lambie retweeted from a far-right UK group http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-19/jacqui-lambie-ban-the-burka-photo-believed-to-be-policewoman/5757438
And John Fraser’s comment “or they are just total f*ckwit religious xenophobic nutters” is probably the most accurate thing I’ve read today.
It’s a pity Sufism never makes it into the public ‘discussion’ about Islam. The Whirling Dervishes are fascinating and offers a different take to Islam other than the brutal conservatism of Wahhabism http://www.onislam.net/english/shariah/shariah-and-humanity/faq/450513-sufism-wahhabism-shariah-islam-innovation-salafi.html
See? I read that as surfism and I thought “whoa duuude…”
A little read of Richard Dawkin’s “The God Delusion” will be enough to disabuse oneself of the notion that Islam is any worse or better than Christianity. The Old and New Testaments are rife with cruelty, barbarity and intolerance inflicted by good old God himself upon his unfortunate creation. In an act of brazen duplicity he creates man to just cause him to suffer, through no fault of his own, then sets about to vilify and blame laced with large doses of retribution and damnation. Then in a final act of benevolence he sends those who do not suck up to his dogmatic irrationality to eternal hell and damnation. Good job blokes sounds entirely fair doesn’t it. I wonder if it were Christians who were involved in slavery and torture or the wonderful bloodletting of the crusades. One could go on and on but I hope you get the gist of the problem confronting religous hypocrisy.
The fact that we even need to have this conversation today demonstrates how backward, primitive and unthinking many human beings are. My devil, hell and damnation is better than yours. Makes one want to choke on misbegotten lies and unbridled deception.
Let’s all be tolerant. I think we may have a bit of problem here when the intolerant ask for tolerance. Logic is obviously not religions forte.
Meanwhile the world goes to hell in a hand basket while our stupid and ignorant politicians pray to a God of deception and lies. No wonder Abbott lies so blatantly when the whole edifice of retributive religion is built on a magical mythical fallacy of epic proportions.
Those of you who know me on this site will realize that I am, in fact, very tolerant of peoples right to believe what they like as long as they do not harm their fellow citizens. I don’t think beliefs makes believers evil or inhumane however the ideological facts speak for themselves.
Just wondering what the ratio might be… over the past 15 years…
The number of innocent Christian civilians killed by Islamic “militants” versus the number of innocent Muslim civilians killed by Christian men in uniform…?
The author’s cited description of what jihad means makes it pretty clear how to regard anyone committed to it. Jihad is described as struggle against those who don’t believe the pronouncements of the Moslem religion (apostates, atheists, sundry other unbelievers) and if the struggle includes any form of coercion (as it patently does from their own proclamations and behaviour), then a jihadist is a throwback enemy of the liberty which took centuries to win in the teeth of theocracy – and is therefore rightly greeted with scorn and hostility by anyone who values the ongoing liberating process of the Enlightenment. Those described in biblical passages like Deuteronomy 20:16 and 17 [1], if they were struggling today for the same murderous intolerance, would be likewise rightly labelled and scorned in decent society as enemies no better than Nazis. That sort of behaviour three millennia ago is no excuse for those currently still at it. Enemies of humanity then and now.
[1] See http://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/20-16.htm and http://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/20-17.htm
I agree not all Muslims are terrorists, but I think all terrorists are Muslims. They are merely doing what Christians did a few centuries ago.
Disagree John Dehavilland. History would attest to many terrorist type atrocities over the centuries …. and certainly NOT all perpetrated by Muslims.
So … NOT all terrorists are Muslims, by any means.
In more recent times, just one example ….. the IRA extremists who used explosives under cars, and killed many in the name of THEIR particular complaints – and ideologies – against the British. As far as I am aware many of those terrorists were Catholic white people, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the white Protestants there threw a few bombs as well.
There are other examples …. recent history too.
Anders Behring Breivik(spits venom).
John F,
The number of comments quoting from the Quran/Koran was 1(Peter).
All the other quotations were from the Old and New Testaments.
I personally think a reasonable knowledge of the contents of the major influential texts of theology(and philosophy) is a valuable thing.
Many adherents of rigid fundamentalist dogma might be a little more open minded if they were aware of the flaws in their own ‘holy books’, as well as the merits in others.
Rossleigh, I’m sorry, but how about you do something truthful and show how, where and when people of any other current belief system have committed a similar number of violent atrocities in the last 50 years or so? All other belief systems have pretty much ‘grown up’ in terms of foregoing violence in modern times. Only islam remains literally committed to its entire dogma. So instead of doing exactly what Abbott and co are adept at, by saying, “Look over here, not there”, how about ignoring the politically correct garbage everyone seems so utterly transfixed with, and display some objectivity by studying what and why islam teaches and mandates for its followers?
It is the only belief system whose followers still act so barbarically.
In the beginning, Man created God, and it all went downhill from there.
Deflecting because your mob are not as bad as the other mob does not justify or clarify the foundational violence and duplicity behind most religions. Fundamentalists, over the centuries, demonstrate that any religion can be turned towards violence and terror. Given certain contributing circumstances it is no different today than in the past. There have only been minor biological changes since Cro-Magnon man arrived some 30,000 years ago. Is it too much to ask that the horrific passages in your holy books get edited out using a single absolutely necessary goal to find in you hearts the logic to challenge and the Love to Forgive. Is it too much to find the causal contributors to dysfunction and brutality rather than refer back to irrational magical and mythical tomes inculcated with superstition and hypocrisy. True courage arises when one actually follows love to its natural source at the acausal initial conditions of cosmological evolution and then formulate a coherent philosophy that chooses love and goodness as core precepts of successful communitarian cultures. To do less is a parody on the whole edifice of retributive justice and inherent intolerance underscored by judgment, blame and retribution. Continually shuffling the deck chairs is not going to cut it.
No matter how you rationalize and deflect the facts will not escape you as science, rather than religion, leads us into he future
Oh yeah Peter, Christians are all such rational thoughtful caring people….
http://www.has.vcu.edu/wrs/Pics/WestboroBaptist4.png
The State of Israel was founded by Jewish terrorist groups, the Jewish Agency, Hagana, Irgun and the Stern Gang, who engaged in bombings on the British and other Western targets.
Jewish Terrorism and the Creation of the State of Israel
Israel, especially the Zionists, won’t call these groups terrorists, and indeed extol them as heroes, but nonetheless they fit the same contextual definitions being lumped upon Arab groups being prescribed as terrorist today.
I am considering injecting a little aggressive militancy into my own agnosticism.
I am just uncertain whether this is justified, and how to rightly go about it if it is.
Fundamentalism, dichotomous absolutism and hubristic certainty of divine knowledge are, I believe, a curse upon humanity and a danger to human survival.
It is, I am only here because of It, and if I listen and think about what is right, I can be with It.
Peter,
You want examples of Christian terrorists? Try working at an abortion clinic.
http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/10-worst-terror-attacks-extreme-christians-and-far-right-white-men?paging=off¤t_page=1#bookmark
Burka mazurka its all just a side show. We will see just how serious the US is in its fight to take out its former terrorist allies now fighting in Iraq. Will they (IS fighters) be allowed to cross back (herded maybe?) over the border into Syria to resume anti Syrian activities and be used to ‘justify’ US attacks there including against the Syrian Government?
Of course they will – the whole point is to remove a critic of Israel and an ally of Iran and then the war can be moved eastwards to Iran itself – while Israel takes what remains of Palestine.
That is if they can get away with it. Maybe only Russia and China can stop them.
“Rossleigh, I’m sorry, but how about you do something truthful and show how, where and when people of any other current belief system have committed a similar number of violent atrocities in the last 50 years or so?”
Oh Peter you make it too easy. Rwanda 1994 – 90% of the participants were Christians. People who shared the same pews in church killed each other. Most of the killings took place inside or near churches. Bosnia early 1990s – Christians committing genocide against the Muslims. Hitler’s extermination of the Jews was performed in the name of Christianity. Currently Jews in Gaza are exterminating Palestinians. The IRA and the Sinn Fein – Christians again.
Then take a look at the barbaric acts performed by the Catholic church in the name of community service. Taking unwed pregnant girls into convents, separating them from their children, selling their children to people in overseas nations and forcing the single mums to pay large sums of money for their freedom. Mother Teresa let patients in her hospital suffer and she considered that suffering brought them closer to God. Millions of dollars donated for use in her hospital never actually made it into the hospital. I have friends who were physically abused by nuns when they were at school and still have the psychological scars.
Indeed John, and I seem to remember reading the name ‘De Havilland’ being quite prominent when the Catholic Church was conducting its ‘Struggle’ amid the blood letting of the Middle Ages Crusades and look how nicely we play now..
Let me make this very clear, I hate racism. I also hate repression of women. I am a proud feminist and I live in Australia.
Therefore, I want Australia to keep aiming in the direction of equality and everybody to share the spirit of egalitarianism. That to me means that women are entitled to be seen and heard.
Unfortunately, I have to differ with various worthy above commentators because I do not support wearing the burqua.
That said, I am also disgusted by Jacqui Lambie’s misuse of this photo of Malalai Kakar because it misrepresents the wonderful work this Afghani lady did for abused women in her community, as the first female police officer before being killed by the Taliban.
Lee have you forgotten the many many millions killed by the Christian US in my lifetime in wars Christian Australia has also supported? Or the million or so – at least half a million, women and children at least – killed during the Iraq sanction years while the ALP was in government (and playing a leading role) and supported by Christian Keating and Co?
Rossleigh, I love your writing because your thinking makes so much sense and you speak it clearly. If there is a way to make your writing even better, I believe it would only be to take a little bit of this writer’s style:
http://27bslash6.com/massanutten.html
Lee, do I really make it that easy? How many instances have you quoted? Six maybe? How about you get that horrible total up to around the 23,000 mark and you may have a gram of credibility, because that is how many DOCUMENTED cases of islamic violence, committed DIRECTLY and DELIBERATELY in the name of islam, have occurred just in the last 15 years.
Oh, and Hitler did NOT kill Jews in the name of Christianity.
Just for the record, he was an avowed occultist who hated Jews because he had been badly jilted by a Jewish girl.
He forced German Christian leaders (all bar one) to kowtow to his policies or face persecution and violence.
Also, just for clarity, the nazis were NOT right-wing, they were the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, or National Socialist German Workers’ Party.
Got that little word, socialist? Left-wing, completely.
Please, please understand what you’re talking about before making rash statements.
Mark Delmege, how conveniently you label the US and Australia as Christian nations when it suits your anti-Christian argument, yet those who speak like you do scream separation of Church and State the rest of the time!
There is no way modern USA or Australia could be labelled Christian nations, and that is borne out by census statistics.
Jennifer is the only one in these last few comments who has balance!
With one small exception Jennifer if I may?
islam is not a race.
It is a whole of life ideology with religious, financial, legal, social and political imperatives.
Therefore to speak against islam is not racist at all, it’s just the first thing moslems grasp to try and win an argument.
Peter time to remove the rose coloured glasses.
Hitler was left-wing? Gee, the history books will need rewriting. Who’d a thunk Hitler was an advocate of social justice. I have been misinformed obviously. Where do you get your information from Peter?
Thank you for the link, Lotti, that shit is hillaryarse.
You asked for examples in the last 50 years and provided with such, you change the requirements to the last 15 years. This is a manipulative technique. Please try to be rational and concise.
Hitler’s speeches, which are readily available online, clearly reference the Christian god as reasons the Jews Are Bad. If you have doubts about his true motivations, you may well be correct. Catholicism was still quite evident.
You were also provided with examples besides Hitler. Bosnia was a racial and religiously motivated war by Christians against Muslims. Will you now claim that this is irrelevant because it began 25 years ago, and not 15?
Islam is not a race. But racial issues are still exceedingly tied are religious issues. There is racism surrounding the status of Muslims in Australia. Denying this flies in the face of the evidence.
Edit to Corvus: I agree! He’s also the guy that tried to pay a phone bill with a drawing of a seven legged spider. 🙂
I guess by definition then, the Liberal Party is a festive gathering of generous souls..
It is true that Moslems are not truly a race(or human sub-species variation), in same as the being a Jew is not a racial distinction, but a statement of theological alignment(with attendant body-modification).
Ha ha ha Peter. Do some research yourself! Here is but one of numerous quotes by Hitler linking himself to Christianity and his Christian service in exterminating the Jews.
“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.
-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)
“Mark Delmege, how conveniently you label the US and Australia as Christian nations when it suits your anti-Christian argument, yet those who speak like you do scream separation of Church and State the rest of the time!”
Ha ha ha again Peter! It’s the right wing God botherers who pushed/are pushing for war.
Labelling Australia and the US as Christian nations in no way means that we support the joining of church and state. When church and state get together no good ever comes of it.
Re.. Lotti thanks for that link was worth reading for the laugh value, bloody funny shit yep….
Peter peter peter isn’t that what Abbott has said? Christian values and all that – do they still read the Lords prayer in Parliament? I think so and just look at how this lot in Canberra and even here in WA bankroll the churches. How convenient of you to ignore all this!
Oh not the red herring that Hitler was left wing again?
Hitler was not the only right wing authoritarian party to have socialist or reference to socialism in their party name and documents, yet be the opposite of a socialist.
There are tomes on Hitler’s right wing ideology and use of the Nazi (from with NSDAP was derived) party. For example he ignored the socialist founder of the party Neder and then began incorporating young right wing violent nationalists and racists.
Indeed in the 1920’s in unionised workshops any worker who spoke in favour of the Nationalist Socialists or other Rightists groups was expelled from the union or beaten.
In the left leaning states like Prussia, Hesse, Brunswick etc. where the party was banned, the Nationalist Socialists changed their name showing the name of the party had nothing to do with their ideology.
Peter, in paying me a compliment, you have assumed I was talking against Islam. No I wasn’t.
I support any person to openly believe in their religion whether it be Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism and many others.
I support peace-loving, socially conscious believers in Islam, as I would for any other religion.
This however, does not mean I accept any religious or customary practice that would deny a woman or girl any expression or identity.
And just for accuracy – like Peter citing the socialist in the Nazis title – our current government is left wing. They’re Liberals. And after watching Fox News I know that liberals are left wing and therefore dangerous!
Have we forgotten Vietnam? Or Angola? Bosnia and ethnic cleansing? Atrocities are committed by men regardless of their religion, though sometimes a religious reason, justifies the killing, especially if the “other” is perceived as a lesser being because of his religion. Ban religion altogether !
Jennifer, I assumed no such thing. I merely felt your comment was the only non-myopic one in this string. 🙂
On every bible should be a warning “religion is harmful to your health”
just like on ciggie packets that have warnings to steer folks clear of the toxic product that can harm and even kill you 🙂
Lee, Hitler used Christianity, but he was most definitely an occultist, whether you choose to believe it or not.
BTW, as of yesterday, 23,869 acts of violence perpetrated by moslems in the name of islam, in the last 15 years alone. Keep counting.
Mark, ” isn’t that what Abbott has said? Christian values and all that”.
Since when would any sane person give 1 zot of credence to anything the worst PM in Australia’s history has said?
Certainly not me!
Rossleigh, surely you’re being sarcastic?
I truly hope so, because if not, that’s the most stupid statement I’ve read in this string!
More facetious than sarcastic I reckon(squints myopically).
“Ban religion altogether !”
Amen!
“Lee, Hitler used Christianity, but he was most definitely an occultist, ”
Peter, you’re doing a really good job of shooting down your own argument.
I really don’t give a rat’s posterior what Hitler’s true religion was. Whether he was Christian or occultist, he was definitely not Muslim, yet he committed attrocities in the name of religion! The point is, barbaric acts are performed in the name of many religions, not just Islam. And the other point which you obviously do not realise you are making, is that just because someone calls themselves a Muslim and then blows people up, does not necessarily make them a true Muslim.
Lee, right at the end there you’ve committed the “no true Scotsman” fallacy. Everything else, I agree with you on.
Everyone has cricitisms but no one seems to have solutions. Any solutions? Anyone?
Thanks Lotska. Well in that case, Hitler said he was Christian and he murdered innocent people in the name of Christianity, therefore he was a Christian. 😉
Militants killing in the name of the Muslim ideology is very bad.
Fundamentalist capitalists killing in the name of “freedom” and “the national interest” is apparently quite acceptable.
What makes it okay to kill in the name of of one doctrine… but not another?
When American leaders chanted the mantra: ‘God bless America’ and then proceeded to bomb the life out of the civilian population in Iraq (more than 200 000 deaths), giving rise to IS, were they being ‘religious’? Just askin …
Wendy,
Yes.
Everybody, stop letting off explosives and slaughtering/maiming people in the name of your deity/imaginary friend.
It is bad, and if they exist, they might judge you harshly.
corvus boreus:
I’d like it if we got past the notion that it’s only killing in the name of religion is despicable. Violence in the name of ANY ideology should be seen as repugnant.
We were told that we attacked Afghanistan in the name of “freedom” and “democracy” and many of us believed it.
Last year, John Howard wrote about Iraq: “…in those circumstances, and given our shared history and values, I judged that, ultimately, it was in our national interest to stand beside the Americans.”
Sooo… not in the name of God… but in the name of America and our “national interests” (whatever they may be). But that’s okay, right?
Amended solution in the light of subsequent correspondence from Mars.
Everybody stop letting off explosives and killing/maiming people full-stop.
Solved.
“Sooo… not in the name of God… but in the name of America and our “national interests” (whatever they may be). But that’s okay, right?”
It was Bob Hawke and the Australian Labor Party who took us to the Middle East and we have been there ever since
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War
“The Gulf War (2 August 1990 – 28 February 1991), codenamed Operation Desert Shield (2 August 1990 – 17 January 1991), for operations leading to the buildup of troops and defense of Saudi Arabia and Operation Desert Storm (17 January 1991 – 28 February 1991) was a war waged by coalition forces from 34 nations led by the United States against Iraq in response to Iraq’s invasion and annexation of Kuwait.”
” Every human thought and action is based in either fear or love”
Where is the love?
*Except for the bits in between when we weren’t there.
Thank you for the newsflash, Gneal off sideknee.
Stupid Bob Hawke, he should be voted out of office IMMEDIATELY!
P.s. could you please repeat that info 17 times in case someone missed it?
@ Peter …. ( ref post – 9.45 am ) You claim Hitler was not a Christian ? What defines a Christian ? … someone who does good to others; or who follows the teachings of a particular Christian church teachings ( there are hundreds of those ) ; … or one who uses Christian ‘speech’ to advance his or her cause for money ? or for political gain ? or for any other reason.
This article is interesting – for everyone here I would think.
http://www.cbn.com/700club/features/churchhistory/godandhitler/
Hitler cozied up to the Vatican ( he had been raised as a Catholic ) …. and the Vatican helped him get some of his valuables, and a few of his trusty Nazi’s out of harms way, as the Alllies advanced. Meantime he was intent on getting rid of Jewish people – we know about that utter horror … it does not have to be revisited.
From the above link – one horridly interesting comment :
………….. ” As a child, Hitler was baptized into the Catholic Church. He was an altar boy, and at one point he even wanted to become a priest. But as history would later show, a church member and a Christian are two different things. ” I absolutely SHUDDER at this revelation … for many reasons.
Hitler – EVEN WANTED TO BECOME A PRIEST ?
So from a potentially ‘good’ (??) man – Hitler turned completely evil.
I want to believe there is more good in the world ( still ) than there is bad.
,,,,,,,,,,
btw …. um – er – Jesus ( the one Christians believe in ) was in fact JEWISH. ……. I think a whole heap of people forget that !!
Many even argue against it ! …. because it suits them to do so, is all.
……..
Neil,
Aussies fought in Egypt in WW2.
“Except for the bits in between when we weren’t there.”
Fact is no matter who is in power we generally do what the Americans ask.
It was Hawke who took us to the ME and it was Gillard who agreed to putting US Marines in Darwin.
I see this long and growing debate about which religion is the greater evil .. but they all are.
In a religious context Islam, Christianity and Judaism are all disobeying one of the prime tenets of
their respective religions.One of the 10 commands directly given them by their ‘god’, rather than interpreted
for them by some ‘prophet’ on god’s behalf (yes the omission of capitals on ‘god’ is deliberate).
I refer to the commandment “thou shall not kill”, This direct command does specify race, religion, sex or occupation.
Pretty much the entire body of the books these ‘religious’ acts are founded on are not attributable to ‘god’, but to
humans. Usually humans with political agendas.
Any act of murder committed in the name of that particular god is therefore inherently apostate.
In political terms, what we are seeing from Abbott’s minions right now is a huge exercise in division and distraction.
The regime is under pressure to survive in the face of massive and justifiable resistance to it’s political actions.
Abbott needs to create fear and division in order to cast himself in the role of protector (which he demonstrably is not).
In our names this government is spending billions (we supposedly do not have) to kill PEOPLE in the name of
political survival. Calling out 800 odd personnel to arrest 18 people is nothing but a stunt for the media.
It could have been done with less than 10 percent of that manpower.and without the circus.
Instead there was a giant political advertisement to us and the world that Tony’s boys were ‘on the job’
(there’s a free 3 word slogan for you).
Vilification of muslims is being done for no better reason than to create fear and division for political capital.
Rossleigh said it quite well.
Yep Neil is on roll today, already he has brought up labor twice in his last 2 comments, yep time to take a coffee break 🙂
17 times Corvus ? it’s only early in the day, I am going for 20 times he will repeat himself
Neil really luvs Labor especially old hawkie who left politics decades ago, he is stuck in a time warp,
it’s called the past 🙂
United Nations Security Council Resolutions 660 and 662 condemned Iraq’s invasion and called for the immediate and unconditional withdrawal of Iraqi forces.
Security Council Resolution 678, followed on November 29, 1990. This stated that if Saddam Hussein did not remove his troops from Kuwait by January 15, 1991… military force would be used to drive them out.
That said, there are still some questions about what convinced Saddam to go ahead with the invasion in the first place.
On the permanent US bases in the NT, I agree with n.o.s.
That was a crap idea, involving the surrender of sovereignty,(I know about what has happened on Okinawa and such) and it occurred on Gillard’s watch.
Stupid Gillard, she should be voted out of office IMMEDIATELY!
On a subject relevant to people in the current decision making process of our immediate situation,I wonder how the hon. Antony voted on that particular gem of a proposal. I shall consult out of curiosity.
That’s pretty much how I see it, Lee. No one to date that I’ve found has managed to offer a good reason for delineating the “real” Christians (etc) from the “fake” ones (good reason being evidence rather than nice happy feelings) so we take people’s declarations at their word. At least until they declare otherwise. 🙂
mars08. Look up Kuwait angle or slant drilling. Kuwait was stealing Iraqi oil with the full knowledge of the US and using oil drilling techniques and equipment supplied by the US. Saddam warned Kuwait he would invade if they continued, which they did and which he did.
Kaye Lee, I believe one of the first acts of the first Australian federal parliament was to commit combatants to the war against the Boer.
Are we just a bunch of phum-ducks who love going off to commit slaughter upon strangers and knock their shit down before dying gruesome deaths, or is there something wrong with the system?
JOHN Kerry and Chuck Hagel will press for more US fighter jets and bombers to be rotated through Darwin when they meet their Australian counterparts in Sydney today.
According to US briefing notes reviewed by The Wall Street Journal ahead of AUSMIN talks, the Secretary of State and Defence Secretary will argue for the increased aircraft rotations as part of Washington’s rebalancing towards the Asia-Pacific.
The US proposals will also include discussion of incorporating Australian Navy ships into a ballistic missile defence shield for the Asia-Pacific, where five of America’s seven treaty allies are located.
“The interest here is for tactical aircraft, for closer cooperation between the Australian and U.S. air forces,” a local defence official familiar with Mr Kerry’s agenda told the WSJ.
Foreign Minister Julie Bishop said the signing of the legally-binding force posture agreement would hail “a new stage of bilateral cooperation”.
The US has around 1150 marines and other military personnel that it rotates annually through Darwin. It has said it plans to more than double that number to create a 2500-strong air and ground force in the Northern Territory capital.
US defence strategists value the relatively safer distance of Australian military bases from a potential Chinese missile strike than existing facilities in places such as Japan, South Korea and Guam, as well as access to large training and weapons ranges in remote areas.
The green light for a bigger US military presence in Australia was obtained in June with an agreement between Tony Abbott and Barack Obama that covers details such as the costs of building extra barracks and facilities in Darwin.
The deal, to be formally signed in Sydney this week, also places a legal framework around the US military presence.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/defence/us-to-seek-to-boost-military-presence-in-darwin/story-e6frg8yo-1227021399220
Möbius Ecko:
Iraq also let America know of it’s determination to keep what they believed was theirs…
Never mind that it was the Englishman, Sir Percy Cox (you’ve GOT to love that name) who arbitrarily drew the “line in the sand” which became the Kuwait-Iraq border in1922.
The incessant drivel about Muslims and anti-Semitism is apparently a tactic of the Likud Right and the Krischun evangelical haters. Those who are interested in some reality might like to access these 2 books.
Robert Satloff. Among the Righteous; Lost Stories from the Holocaust’s Long Reach into Arab Lands. Public Affairs. NY. 2006
Gilbert Achcar . The Arabs and the Holocaust. The Arab-Israeli war of Narratives. Metropolitan Books, Henry Holt and Coy. NY.2009
Bilal,
To whom is that apparent?
We should not forget the brutality inflicted upon the Arab peoples during the Crusades.
@CMMC….
Oh let’s forget the damn Crusades. If you want an example of western barbarity, you only need to look back about 15 years…
This from Denis Halliday, who in 1998… resigned in disgust as the head of the “oil-for-food” program for Iraq and Assistant Secretary General of the United Nations. He objected to on the policy of sanctions, branding them ” a totally bankrupt concept” :
“There is an awful incompatibility here, which I can’t quite deal with myself. I just note that I feel extremely uncomfortable flying the UN flag, being part of the UN system here,” he added.
Mr Halliday said it was correct to draw attention to the “4,000 to 5,000 children dying unnecessarily every month due to the impact of sanctions because of the breakdown of water and sanitation, inadequate diet and the bad internal health situation”.
But he said sanctions were biting into the fabric of Iraqi society in other, less visible ways.
He cited the disruption of family life caused by the departure overseas of two to three million Iraqi professionals.
He said sanctions had increased divorces and reduced the number of marriages because young couples could not afford to wed.
“It has also produced a new level of crime, street children, possibly even an increase in prostitution,” he said.
“This is a town where people used to leave the key in the front door, leave their cars unlocked, where crime was almost unknown. We have, through the sanctions, really disrupted this quality of life, the standard of behaviour that was common in Iraq before.”
Young Iraqis likened to Taleban
Mr Halliday argued that the “alienation and isolation of the younger Iraqi generation of leadership” did not bode well for the future.
NOW! READ THAT LAST LINE AGAIN!!!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/183499.stm
—
World Food Programme Official Resigns
Agence France-Presse
February 15, 2000
Baghdad – A high-ranking UN agency official in Iraq resigned Tuesday, the second official to leave in the space of two days, apparently in protest at the impact of sanctions on ordinary Iraqis. The representative in Baghdad of the World Food Programme (WFP), Jutta Burghart, “has submitted a request for her job to be terminated, to protest against the effects of the international embargo on the Iraqi people,” a western diplomatic source said.
The United Nations confirmed Burghart’s resignation, but a spokeswoman described it as “a personal decision … to leave and return to the service of a government.” Burghart has held the post since January 1999.
Her request to leave follows hot on the heels of that of United Nations aid coordinator for Iraq Hans von Sponeck for similar reasons. Von Sponeck, a German like Burghart, said Tuesday he resigned because the latest UN Security Council resolution was unworkable and would not ease the human “tragedy” of the sanctions-hit country. Von Sponeck said his views were widely shared among colleagues…
—
September 24, 1992: The New England Journal of Medicine publishes the findings of Harvard researchers that 46,700 Iraqi children under five have died from the combined effects of war and trade sanctions in the first seven months of 1991.
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To Mark Delmerge. a very valid point about Syria,Isis was founded by the US as a franchisee of Osama”s organisation to get rid of Ghadaffi ( Lybia wanted to move away from petrodollars ) they are now being used to get rid of Bashar Assad of Syria, The US congress has now agreed to arm the “moderate ” Syrian rebels fighting Assad yes the very same rebels who have just signed a non agression pact with Isis so, America is in fact, along with Saudi Arabia, arming Isis with the end result a regime change in Syria [ who coincidently are Israels enemy }
So to sum it up our village idiot is now fighting Isis which is being armed indirectly by America. WTF
but wait there is more, Russia is a friend of Syria and our village idiot and his equally obnoxious side kick Bishop have totally pissed of Russia, the plot thickens, watch this space
Peter, a mechanical hasbara troll….
Have you not read the ‘ The kings Torah ‘ ??. You’ve forgotten the 60 million plus souls killed in China by Jewish Communism. What about the tens of millions christians killed in WW1 / WW2. Just follow the jewish athiest money.
http://coteret.com/2009/11/09/settler-rabbi-publishes-the-complete-guide-to-killing-non-jews/
There’s the hint of a nasty smell creeping in here ….
It’s called – anti-semitism.
Please don’t start with accusations of anti-semitism. I’m over not being allowed to speak against one group of people who think they are special. They’re indulging in ethnic cleansing in Gaza at the moment. We should be allowed to call them on it and any other of their illegal activities.
A knee jerk reaction from Lee. You can say what you like – just as I can. You can call whoever you like on whatever you like … Just about everyone here calls someone or other to task – all the time. Abbott gets a good going over – and deservedly. He’s a dangerous person, of undetermined mental state.
Am not arguing ethnic cleansing if that’s the way you want to see it. The hamas terrorists are presumably beyond reproach ?????
As for illegal activities ….. scratch the surface of ANY dominant country in this world and you would be bound to find ‘illegal activities’
btw …. my remarks were most definitely NOT aimed at you. Unless that is, you are posting under two names ?
“A knee jerk reaction from Lee.”
Throwing stones in the glasshouse are we? Someone refers to an historical act of murder perpetrated by Jews and posts a link to an article where a Jew is promoting killing of non-Jews and you start crying “anti-semitism”.
“The hamas terrorists are presumably beyond reproach ?????”
That’s a straw man. Speaking out against the genocidal activities of the Jews has nothing to do with supporting terrorism.
“btw …. my remarks were most definitely NOT aimed at you. Unless that is, you are posting under two names ?”
I only post under one name. I don’t want to read ridiculous accusations of anti-semitism because someone dares to point out that the Jews are not as innocent as many would have us believe.
Lee ,,,,,
“the Jews are not as innocent as many would have us believe.” ….. CORRECT.
But would you mind telling me just who IS ‘innocent’ in this world ? ( apart from babies and small children that is ? ).
Especially in the world of power and politics. I doubt you could possibly answer. 😉
No I can’t tell you who is innocent in this world and it’s irrelevant. Why don’t you tell me why it is acceptable to say something negative about anyone, unless they are Jewish?
Lee ? your post 4.45 pm 24th Sept.
1 ) … YOU were the one who introduced the word “innocent” ( in regards to Jews ) ….. so I went with the flow. …. It is however, irrelevant ( agreed ), and I don’t know why you bothered to introduce the innocence or not – of Jews in the first place.
2) … YOU have introduced the point of negativism here. i.e. “why it is acceptable to say something negative about anyone, unless they are Jewish? ”
………. … it is NOT acceptable to say anything negative about any RELIGIOUS faction … no matter who the eff they are, or whatever the hell they THINK they are. That would be a form of religious vilification. From personal experience I could say PLENTY about it, but I am not inclined to go into details about it with the likes of you. It is extremely personal – and not a pretty story by any means. But I wouldn’t think you could cotton on to any such premise. !!
I still consider everyone’s right to worship ( or not ) …. in whatever church, shrine, synagogue or mosque that they choose to worship in.
———
I don’t deride Catholics….. …….. yet cannot abide the cover ups about paedophilia within that church. ….. who can ?
I don’t deride Zen Buddhism …. however, some Zen of different persuasions is a bit extreme.
I don’t deride born again Christians ——- as long as they keep their proselytizing to themselves ( which at times it seems they are incapable of doing ). They can be whatever they think they are. So I choose to ignore their salesmanship.
I don’t deride Muslims ….. except the extremist break away groups that go for what they perceive to be Allah’s intentions – to rid the earth of infidels. …… Who doesn’t feel disgust at that ? ……..however … MOST Muslims are good and kind people.
I don’t deride Jews ….. but I do wonder at their extremist groups – ( and they DO have them ) …. kabbalistic and hasidics. These extremist groups would run down, run over, not assist, anyone not of their persuasion, INCLUDING Orthodox Jews. ( have personal evidence of that ).
I don’t deride ANY religion – but if it goes to extremism, radicalism and fundamentalism ….. I can NEVER go with that.
THAT is my choice. THESE are my choices. It’s up to every individual to CHOOSE what they want to bellieve, follow —- or not. .
The Jews got a guernsey in my above comments ……….. does that answer your question ? And I repeat ( because you obviously did not read my recent comment fully ) …….
———— ………. “the Jews are not as innocent as many would have us believe.” ….. CORRECT………. that is CORRECT.
Did you miss that bit ?
Sincerely trust this is the end of the matter !!!
” From personal experience I could say PLENTY about it, but I am not inclined to go into details about it with the likes of you. It is extremely personal – and not a pretty story by any means. But I wouldn’t think you could cotton on to any such premise. !!”
Well thanks for not sharing all those details. Truth is, I skim over most of your ramblings. I get the impression you like the sound of your own voice.
“as long as they keep their proselytizing to themselves”
Sorry, just had to …
If you like, researching the veracity of anecdotal evidence may be of benefit to you.
Lee and Annie: You both seem to be setting up false dichotomies at an alarming pace.
Lee – …. keep skimming …….. no further comment.
absy,
Thanks for the latest info on the jewish-communist conspiracy. I had been previously unaware of Chairman Mao Tse Tung’s jewish affiliation. Was the ‘little red book’ a translation of the hebrew bible?
One question; is a jewish ‘athiest’ a non-believer who pretends to be jewish, or a zionist counterfeiting atheism?
corvus boreus:
Thank you for you cutting wit.
It would appear that some people are against the Islamic faith using words like Jihadist as well as others while other people defend their rights for just about everything. ( Well like it or not, here are some facts.)
Apart from the various waring cultures of many hundred’s of years ago when war was a more accepted way of life,,, here are some facts about TODAY. Buddhists, Christians, Hindu’s, or those following Toaism or the Shinto faith just to mention a few of the main followings, don’t make bombs for the destruction of infidel’s. They don’t strap explosives to themselves or children, they don’t highjack airplanes, nor fly them into public buildings, and they don’t move through the lands of the modern world, killing and raping anyone at will. By the same token lets see if we can find out which religion is mainly behind this. Oh yes, it’s the Islamic faith.
You can talk all you like about racism and scream at those who’s ideals and beliefs differ from yours, but it’s a fact that Muslimism and the Islamic faith is the one faith that can (not necessarily is) but can be interpreted whereby Infidels must be converted or destroyed.
This will no doubt receive the desired reactions of others but let’s put it out there anyway. Jihadist says bucket loads about Muslims. It doesn’t have the same effect for other religions. Now if you can understand this, get your heads out of the sand and smell the roses.
I hold it to be something of a truism that clumsy and untidy grammar reflects a clumsy and untidy mind. Thank you James for being my pin up boy on that point.
“This will no doubt receive the desired reaction”.
No doubt.
I will talk (not ‘scream’) about racism. On another thread, a poster made some broad claims that Indigenous Australians were basically a bunch of whinging bludgers who stank, and that ‘Australia’ was sick of them. There were sweeping and arbitrary accusations made about a wide group of people intentified solely by their race. Based on this, I suspect the person who posted those statements is quite likely a racist (and is most definitely in need of education upon the appropriate placement of apostrophes).
Corvus:
Yes, it’s abundantly clear from the poster’s own words what sort of individual that he is.
And also, what the motivation was for resurrecting this old thread.
My reaction is to break into song….music is a world within itself, its a language we all understand.
Spot on, Kaye Lee.