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Australia’s bigot problem

My first thought on hearing the news of the hostage situation in Sydney’s Martin Place this morning was ‘those poor, terrified people and their anxious families. What a horrible thing to happen!’ and then slightly irrationally (because fear can be irrational), I thought ‘and just before Christmas too’ as if this made the horribleness of the situation more horrible. The next thought I had was condolence to the Islamic population of Sydney and Australia who will, no doubt, be frightened by this situation not just because of the randomness of such an event happening in our peaceful country, but because they know, like they found out after September 11, that their communities will be blamed, hated, abused, discriminated against and generally shunned by large sections of the non-Islamic Australian community through no fault of their own. Perhaps they’re not just scared. If I were them, I would be furious.

I was a teenager when the Port Arthur massacre happened, and I don’t recall there being a backlash at the time against white people with blonde hair. I’m a white person with blonde hair, and no one has ever heaped me into the ‘possibly a mass murderer’ bucket along with Martin Bryant. Or more recently, Norwegian Anders Breivik, who apparently killed 69 young political activists because he didn’t like their party’s immigration stance which he saw as too open to Islamic immigrants. In fact, in neither case do I recall the word ‘terrorist’ even being used to describe the mass murders of innocent people.

As soon as I saw the images of the white Islamic text on a black flag in the window of the Lindt Café on the news this morning, I knew Australian bigots would be singing with the cries of ‘I told you so!’ and I was right. According to The Guardian’s commentary of today’s events, King Bigot, Ralph Cerminara, leader of the anti-Muslim organisation Australian Defence League, hurried down to Martin Place to rant about Muslims and was moved on by police. Charming stuff. But of course Ralph is not alone. I noticed Greens MP Adam Bandt received a series of bigoted responses to this tweet:

AdamBandtTweet

Here are 5 of the first 6 responses on the twitter feed:

AdamBandtReplies1

AdamBandtReplies2

It’s important to note, not that Murdoch’s Daily Telegraph cares to be accurate, that the flag photographed in the window of the café is not an Islamic State flag. We don’t know anything at all about the hostage takers yet, they may be Islamic State supporters, they may not. But Murdoch’s newspapers, and the bigots who take this news as truth won’t let unconfirmed facts get in the way of a good excuse for some old-fashioned fear mongering and racist bigotry.

This ‘how-much-profit-can-we-drag-out-of-this-tragedy-that-we-know-barely-anything-about’ afternoon edition Daily Telegraph front cover makes the very dubious statement of ‘THE INSTANT WE CHANGED FOREVER’. But have we changed?

The only thing that I can see as having changed in this situation is the level of comfort bigots feel about being openly racist towards people of Islamic faith. And that’s the very real, very scary, very confronting part of this tragedy. Not just that this shocking, violent siege can happen to innocent people on a quiet Monday morning a week before Christmas. The tweets to Adam Bandt show a side of Australia that we all know is there, but we prefer not to think about. These bigots are the reason asylum seeker policy is such a political hot potato in this country, and why Tony Abbott is able to be elected promising to ‘stop the boats’. These nasty racist people aren’t a rarity. And they vote. Welcome to Australia. We haven’t changed a bit.

191 comments

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  1. revolutionarycitizen

    You know what is xenophobic and racist? Taking people hostage with intent to kill because they’re not of your religion…

    And there-in lay the problem, far too many people far too willing to over-look the obvious racism, xenophobia and bigotry in others just to make those claims against those they disagree with.

    Australia does have a racism, xenophobia and bigotry issue, it is on display in Martin Place today, where 30 or so people were taken hostage because they did not share the same faith as the terrorist involved…

    This popular view among those on the left that only white Australian can be racists is as flawed as the underlying ideology driving it.

  2. Susan Wilson-Gahan

    you have no idea what is happening, what the intent or even how many people are there so let us wait before we pass judgment.

  3. Kaye Lee

    rc,

    How do you know what this person’s intentions are/were? How do you know what faith the people in the café follow if any? How do you know there were 30 or so people in there? What about the Hectorville siege in 2011 where 3 people died and three more were injured? Were you similarly outraged? And I note THAT incident didn’t cause all day news coverage around the world. If the guy hadn’t held up a flag would Obama be being briefed about an incident where, to date, no-one has been injured in any way? Have you considered this man may be mentally ill?

    You seem to know more than the police but a little less than the Telegraph.

  4. Goran

    So you have information about the “terrorist” the police don’t seem to have access to revolutionarycitizen (sic)? Maybe you should call the hotline and let them know. And try to read the text above properly before you come up with ridiculous statements.

  5. revolutionarycitizen

    One does not simply raise the Islamic Flag of Conquest for the sake of holding a crowded cafe hostage because the coffee was cold…

    His intentions are irrelevant, the motivation is, and it was declared by the flag he raised and on the headband he wears. This isn’t rocket science, militant Islam is every bit racist, bigoted and xenophobic as everyone claims many Australians’ reaction to it is, even more so in many instances.

    I do not renounce violence, never have and never will, but I do deplore the use of civilians to get one’s point across. That said, this person and the hundreds like him who have either fled to Syria or have been prevented doing so, their supporters and apologists, of which there are many have made their case for Islam here in Australia on behalf of all Muslims, and much to their detriment, the welcome mat is in danger of being removed.

  6. revolutionarycitizen

    “So you have information about the “terrorist” the police don’t seem to have access to revolutionarycitizen (sic)? Maybe you should call the hotline and let them know. And try to read the text above properly before you come up with ridiculous statements.”

    The media provided clear pictures of both the flag and headband, both of which have been identified and translated. They’re a clear statement of motivation, just because the politically correct NSW Police and ABC News 24 won’t admit it, the fact remains, this person took hostages that weren’t Muslims because they weren’t Muslims.

    One does not go armed in public without intent, it’s common sense and a commonly accepted legal norm.

    The number of hostages has been released by the media all day, if you’ve missed that part, then, your bad, not mine.

  7. Mick

    White people with blonde hair are not a religion or belief system, just as Muslims are not a race of people. THINK before heart bleeds..

  8. Blanik

    Hang on a moment. Has anyone been Killed? How do you know this wasn’t inspired by the LNP to boost Captain Catholic’s appeal? What are the alleged terrorists intentions? Why did the feds have a mock terrorist attack in Martin Place at the same time as this alleged drama. How come so many people have been released if a crazy muslim has taken over this cafe?
    And Finally>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>do you really believe a word that oozes out of abbotts slimy mouth?

  9. Illuminati

    This is nothing but a set up by the australian government (who are the puppets of the USA) to get the public’s backing behind hating on islam so they can declare war and invade the country. Allowing the federal reserve to take over their country.

    I have drawn the line, there is too much evidence pointing towards world domination by the federal reserve and the Rothschild family empire. They will go to any lengths to take down a country, including hurting their own citizens. First Iraq, then Syria, now this.

    It’s time to wake up people. All this terrorism is nothing but a set up by western society governments.

  10. Pamela

    There is justice – abbots chance for his very own terrorist incident- is in a chocolate shop.
    This must be a hellish day for the folks inside and I wish them Godspeed and safety as soon as possible.
    But what a lot of brain rotting hate and garbage has been unleashed without evidence. How stupid has this nation become? Between our own aptitude for intellectual dullness our politician’s capacity for cupidity and the likes of the “daily terror”!!!!!
    How we have changed indeed!

  11. mars08

    I’m seeing comments on social media that the Lindt Cafe was targeted because it is not Halal-certified. Riiiight….

  12. Roswell

    RC, would you care to tell us what the translation said?

  13. Kaye Lee

    The first of the ten commandments

    1.You shall have no other gods before Me.

    FLAG

    “There is no God but God and Mohammed is the prophet of God.”

    Are the ten commandments a terrorist creed?

  14. mars08

    It is not some “Islamic flag of conquest”. It essentially says “You shall have no other gods before me”. It’s old testament stuff still preached by Christians.

  15. Richard Leggatt

    What “Revolutionarycitizen” can’t grasp is that he and some so called “terrorists” are cut from the same cloth, small minded and bigoted, hanging on to and inflating their own inadequacies to make themselves feel they’re important! RevCit can’t grasp that he is part of the problem, and certainly not the solution! Just sad really, but dangerous,

  16. Goran

    rr I feel sorry for you and your ilk. It must be such a narrow-minded, small and fearful world you live in. Always someone to hate or fear, someone to threaten “our” jobs and well-being. So glad the world I live in is limitless in possibilities, beautiful and full of diversity. Try it sometime. You might actually like not being scared of everything and everyone (Muslims, boat people, Russians etc.)

  17. Colin

    My advice based on some experience in observing incidents of this nature – question everything you hear, whether word of mouth, on mainstream media, social media or independent blogs like this one.

    Also, print out (or take screenshots), record etc of as much of the mainstream media stories on the topic as you can in the first 24-48 hours because a lot of it will disappear without trace, to be replaced by what will quickly become the “official storyline”

  18. Garth

    Oh how I dread situations like this. Hate is such an ugly and upsetting emotion no matter who it comes from. I’m always stunned that people like Adam bandt cop bile and hate just because they refuse to hate. There is such an ugly underbelly to Australia and it’s not something that can be reasoned with. The media (like the Murdoch rags however) and any politician who seeks to exploit and take advantage of these ugly emotions should be held accountable for the damage they do.

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  20. olive

    Its got nothing to do with border protection as most of these young men have been born in Australia and largely in Sydney .such ignorance on Adam Bandts page …….the bile is just below the surface ……we have Morrison and john Howard et al to thank for that misinformation

  21. revolutionarycitizen

    The headband reads “We are your soldiers O Muhammad” and the flag being as Kaye pointed out, however, the flag as some have pointed out elsewhere is the original inscription used on Islamic flags during its expansion era and is actually banned in the UK, Germany and the Netherlands. It does differ from the more commonly shown ISIS/ISIL flag but is used by other groups with a similar ideological bent.

  22. mars08

    About the headband. I can’t find any mention of it in the media reports. Does anyone have a link?

  23. Richard Leggatt

    Rc. So what? Scott Morrisons a Christian, and in my book he performs evil every day! You don’t think that evil exists in every religion? Read the Bible! Guess what, most paedophiles are white males! My God! We whities must all be paedophiles!

  24. Kaye Lee

    For the actions of one individual, who has certainly scared about 15 people but they remain unharmed to date, you want to condemn the 500,000 or so Muslims that live in this country or the 1.6 billion worldwide. But let’s ignore the actions of countless numbers of priests.

    And could I point out that the Islamic State have killed hundreds/thousands? of fellow Muslims.

    And to Goran….thank you for some sanity

  25. Dagney J. Taggart

    The priests? what priests? Are there priests holding hostages in a cafe somewhere? Look, I am not calling for all Muslims to be expelled, but the facts are that this act appears to have been done in the name of Islam.

  26. mars08

    Well… that righteous War on Terror™ seems to be going splendidly. We now have gunmen taking hostages in Australia’s largest city. That’s real progress, right there!

    After many years of dropping tons and tons of bombs and missiles on goodness knows how many “Muslim” countries and killing thousands of the “evil doers” (and quite a few bystanders)… there now seem to be more radical Islamist than there were a decade ago! Maybe if we kill (or imprison) a few thousand more, things will get better.

  27. Garry

    Fair to say the so called lefties are moving the goalposts once again. Blame the Libs, Morrison, Tony Abbott and anyone who doesn’t follow conspiracy theorists. Just accept the FACT that we were warned about this happening and for God sake, wipe the bloody egg off your face and pray for the 1100 men , women and children who drowned at sea ! Remember that do you hypocrites ?

  28. Dagney J. Taggart

    Maybe you’re right. Let’s pull out of the middle east and let them destroy themselves. What is it to us if they imprison and slaughter other Muslims? Why is it worth our blood and treasure?

  29. Annie B

    @ Colin …… your comment –

    ………… ( December 15, 2014 at 8:05 pm ) …………..

    ” My advice based on some experience in observing incidents of this nature –
    question everything you hear, whether word of mouth, on mainstream media,
    social media or independent blogs like this one. ” ………

    Absolutely agree.

    ……….

    It has crossed my mind ( and others – from MSM and here ) that someone who is quite deranged … anti-this and that, and in particular, anti the Muslim faith – has chosen to make his motives known – that he is totally anti-Muslim —– no matter whether Muslims are law abiding kindly citizens, of good faith and good nature —— or not.

    Whatever his motives,—— because he is Christian, because he is Calathumpian or because he has no religion at all – does not matter. He is making a statement …… to whoever will listen. And that statement, IMHO is anti-Muslim .. he is trying to drop them in it – big time. …… Intent on ‘starting something’.

    But …… that’s just one of the theories that abound ……..

    It could be related to his wife leaving him for another bloke for all we know. We don’t know, and we probably will NEVER know the full story.

    ………

    The small and rapid capture of this perps’ image, did not look at all Middle Eastern. ……… rather more Caucasian – bald head, pale skin, no facial hair, and aged possibly early 50’s.

    Makes me wonder ……… a lot.

  30. Kaye Lee

    As Victoria points out in this article, the real tragedy is being felt by the Muslim community. It is their children who are being groomed and seduced on the internet. We rightly vilify people who do that to other kids but we do not blame our children for it or ourselves as parents.

    Spin it however you like rc…you are a fearful little product of misinformation.

  31. revolutionarycitizen

    “Rc. So what? Scott Morrisons a Christian, and in my book he performs evil every day! You don’t think that evil exists in every religion? Read the Bible! Guess what, most paedophiles are white males! My God! We whities must all be paedophiles!”

    Scott Morrison may indeed be a lot of things and do a lot of things, however, until as such time as he is elevated to the position of Pope, or decides to raise the flag of crusade he does not represent or claim to represent anyone other than himself and the government to which he was elected. That is not the case in this instance.

    Secondly, plenty of bad things in the Bible, a lot of Old Testament stuff is violent, which would explain the Qur’an, which is largely based on the Old Testament and old Jewish texts which were just as violent.

    Thirdly, your last claim is factually incorrect and is in itself a racist slur devoid of any factual analysis. Need I remind you of how children are oft treated in places outside of the 1st world, places which aren’t “white’? Your rantings say more about your bigotry than the alleged bigotry of others.

    Kaye, this is just one act of one (or a small group) in a long line of acts by one (or a small group) that has slowly eroded any chance of good faith existing. The fact that ISIS/ISIL have killed many fellow Muslims is cold comfort to the populations now facing genocide at their hands and the hands of their supporters.

    Many feel free to judge all of Christendom and all Christians based on its history, so why can we not judge Islam for what its believers are doing in the here and now? I judge each individual on his or her merits, and have made my support for that ideal public, but, even I have my limits as do many others.

    It isn’t a phobia when there legitimate concerns to be had, and that being, Australia is now an incredible breeding ground for people who loathe everything you and I believe in. And remember, just because you say nice words in their defence and in the defence of some noble ideal won’t spare you, or I from their hatred toward us.

    Lastly, I fear no one or any thing, least of all those hatred for me in their hearts.

  32. Kaye Lee

    And mars08….I couldn’t agree more. Twice in a decade we have gone to their country and bombed the crap out of them and “regretted” the collateral damage. And if they try to escape from the crazy extremists we lock them up. Why the hell aren’t they more grateful.

  33. undies

    I am having trouble understanding why people are bashing RC. I think his original point is valid. The taking of hostages is a form of racial/ religious bigotry. No race nor religion on this planet does not hold itself or its way before others. But it appears that only where white christians/ agnostics make up the majority is the society deemed racist.

  34. CMMC

    I suspect serial pest Peter Hore, or somesuch loser.

    Since when did Islamicist terrorists need to talk to Ray Hadley?

  35. revolutionarycitizen

    “Spin it however you like rc…you are a fearful little product of misinformation.”

    I have nothing to fear, I have a magnificent beard and I can be taught to be misogynist, you and your ilk Kaye, you lot may have a worse time of it than I.

    We are all accountable for our actions, this idea that is always someone else’s fault is a nonsense offered up by the apologia brigade in the vain hope the crocodile will eat them last.

  36. mars08

    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do.”
    ~Samuel Huntington, Harvard Professor, and author of “The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order”

    I’m sure arsee is familiar with his work…

  37. Kaye Lee

    The point is, undies, the actions of this one man are being projected onto billions of others. Do the actions of one priest represent all Catholics?

  38. john o'callaghan

    One thing i do know for certain about this episode is that Abbott will milk it for all it’s worth,he will be up every morning and every evening milking the rascist cow and bathing in the milk in front of the cameras to bolster his pathetic and tattered image. And yes,it will be sickening.””

  39. CMMC

    BTW, on ABC24 this morning the newsreader, describing the arrest of an Australian woman on drug-smuggling charges in Malaysia, pointed out that Malaysia was a ‘muslim-majority nation’.

    WTF?

  40. Kaye Lee

    Notice how no-one is mentioning MYEFO?

    rc, you say “I judge each individual on his or her merits”….even the ones you have never met it appears.

    And I am sure I could help you on your way to misogyny, it isn’t much further from the sounds. I would love to know what my “ilk” is. perhaps you could define me so I know how to fill in my description should I be asked. Previously I have used “middle-aged woman in jammies” but you will no doubt have something more eloquent to add.

  41. Richard Leggatt

    RevCit, I think you and your views are as scary as any revolutionary, You live with hate, and one day, that hate will consume you. I genuinely feel sorry for you, but I fear you far more than any Muslim I meet walking down any street in Australia. You are the epitome of the Lone Gunman, the sad little man seeking self aggrandisement through violence! You write well and I’m sure you’re convinced of your own superiority, but keep taking the pills!

  42. mars08

    Oh blimey undies. You might be on to something there!

    Now just tell us some of the ways that those dreadful calls of “racism” have impacted white christians/ agnostics who make up the majority. Tell us how their lives, families and self-esteem has been damaged over the years. It must be tough being the dominant social group pandered to by the politicians and the media…

    But wait… apparently you DO have the right to be a bigot. So that’s pretty cool, eh?

  43. CMMC

    Yes, Mars08, the Crusaders introduced a very efficient method of crowd-control into the Middle East.

    Beheading by the sword.

  44. Kaye Lee

    I have noticed that rc turns up here whenever the Coalition need a “look over there” moment and I will admit, he gets our attention. This is a strategy that lawyers use…focus the case on a small point that has impact/popular appeal. Justice and truth are irrelevant while we argue trivialities.

    If we want to get real here, who made the guns and rockets and trucks that ISIL have? It sure wasn’t the few kids from here that have gone over.

    Imagine living in a place where everyone rides around in the back of trucks shooting guns into the air for no reason at all. Who’s giving them the bullets?

    Having said that….how about that MYEFO.

  45. revolutionarycitizen

    Kaye, it is the culmination of acts personified by this one man that is being attributed most rightly to the ideology he believes in, which is shared by many more. In the same way that Christianity itself was forced to evolve because of people were brave enough to confront not just the Church by Christians themselves for their wrongdoings. And, yes, there are plenty who indeed take great delight in drawing connections between what priests have done and Christians in general, in-fact, many Muslims make such connections. I suggest taking some time to explore not only the Muslim Village, but other Islamic literature available in that regard.

    Mars, your history is limited, for Islam the Crusades in which they instigated have never ceased, for the devout Muslim the process of Islamic Expansion has never ceased since the death of Muhammed. This isn’t a conflict that started in the Middle East in the 1970s as a result of American foreign policy. Or in the 1940s as a result of American/Soviet maneuverings regarding carving up the spoils post WW II and the creation of Israel. A stated aim of ISIS/ISIL is the re-conquest of Spain, and the conquest of Rome, which is symbolic and symptomatic of the deeply held historic divides devout Muslims in particular believe in.

    This isn’t a case of one bad Muslim makes every Muslim bad, it makes one bad ideology make all the good Muslims a miracle…

  46. The AIM Network

    Kaye, it is the culmination of acts personified by this one man that is being attributed most rightly to the ideology he believes in

    But aren’t we being told that it was politically motivated?

  47. Kaye Lee

    Shaft,

    Can you tell me the atrocities that Muslims in Australia have committed? If you want to be a fundamentalist or extremist Muslim why would you choose to live in Australia? Did it ever occur to you that they have fled those atrocities?

  48. Annie B

    @Kaye Lee …… ( post – December 15, 2014 at 7:59 pm )

    …… ” Are the ten commandments a terrorist creed? ” ………..

    Um ……. are you prising open Pandoras’ box here Kaye ? 🙂

    My reply is in no way an indictment of your comment. …….. but your post raises a MAMMOTH query !

    If one is a bellever in the Bible – absolutely ( which I personally am not for the most part ) then that’s a real challenge. ……

    I DO however, believe in the Ten Commandments as they are a guide and legitimate ( even today ) set of rules we should all attempt to live by. ( with varying degrees of success by believers !! ) . But that’s about all I can believe.

    …………..

    Terrorism – in all it’s various forms – has been rife since time immemorial. ……. and ( very unfortunately ) will continue to raise it’s vile head periodically. …….. or ( now ) more often. ,,,,, I seriously doubt the ten commandments were specifically aimed at ‘terrorism’ as we know it today …… but could – in the time honored tradition of interpretations by whoever wants to interpret – according to their OWN wishes – could be seen to be just that. …… It is however a bit of a stretch.

    …………

    One other possibility – which would come under the ‘conspiracy theorist’ category ….

    Did someone attempt to divert attention from the mini-budget – brought down today ( by a very despondent looking Treasurer ) ….. which showed such a big blow-out of the deficit ……….. under this ‘MAGNIFICENT’ ( gag / choke / chuck up ) …. Governments handling of ” all that matters ” ….

    Will leave it at that ………

  49. mars08

    arsee:

    …I do not renounce violence, never have and never will, but I do deplore the use of civilians to get one’s point across…

    Harming innocent civilians to make a point is cowardly and horrible. It is unquestionably repulsive. I can understand your outrage, arsee.

    But try this little exercise and see if it helps you relax a bit. Try to think of dead and maimed innocent civilians as simply “collateral damage”. Okay… in the same way that a drone pilot looks at things… or a helicopter pilot hovering over Baghdad. There, isn’t that better?

  50. revolutionarycitizen

    “But aren’t we being told that it was politically motivated?” I am sure the ABC and Fairfax is telling you a lot of what you want to hear, doesn’t make it true though. The flag and headband are a religious statement, not a political one. We can leave out the interwoven nature that is Islam and its politics, this person is obviously acting out their faith and in its name, to further its cause.

    Australia is now the leading exporter of Jihadis per capita to Syria and Iraq, as many Australians as Pakistanis have joined ISIS/ISIL.

    Regardless of where these people have come from, their first allegiance is and will always be Islam.

  51. Dagney J. Taggart

    Not unlike christianity, Islam is divided into sects. The bad Islam, if I can use that term, is the middle eastern variant – the Sufiists and Wahabists. This is a political system masquerading as a religion. I happen to know a Sufi Muslim who is very moderate and extremely afraid of the middle eastern muslims. He is afraid to speak out at is local Mosque for fear of his personal safety. And this is in the People’s Republic of Canberra.

    So, I’m happy to support moderates, I don’t mind head scarves. I do, however, distrust middle eastern muslims and I dislike the hijab.bhurka/batman outfit with a passion.

  52. revolutionarycitizen

    People die Mars, get over it, next you’ll be crying in your coco pops over the millions of German civilians we killed to end WW II…

    Take a cup of concrete and call me in the morning.

  53. Don Winther

    My first thoughts about the hostage situation was that Abbott had organized it as another convenient media distraction from their poor effort as a government. I havent heard much about MYFO so I think I was right.
    I said that to someone this morning and the said ” na he wouldn’t do that would he? …….. guess he could, he does lie a lot and he is very sneaky” I replied with one of those Tony Abbott winks.

  54. Brenda

    Really? my first thought was well Hockeys incompetence isn’t going to be the lead story today, how convenient for him. Then I thought poor people who are caught up in this.

  55. mars08

    uh huh… so what we’re seeing today is all about “Islamic Expansion”.

    Nothing else matters… apparently. Because Sir Percy Cox never existed.Because Sykes–Picot Agreement never happened. Because the US never supported Saddam Hussein, the Shah of Iran, or the rise of the mujahideen in Afghanistan. Because the US and Britain didn’t impose cruel sanctions against Iraq which caused the deaths of thousands of their children. Because Israel, France and the United Kingdom weren’t partners in the Protocol of Sèvres. Because innocent Muslims were never tortured in secret CIA prisons. Because the US never supported or armed Islamic militants in Syria who went on to join ISIS.

    Noooo… “Islamic Expansion” is entirely to blame.

    Thanks for sharing your wisdom arsee. Now kindly go and f&ck your self-righteous-self, you clown…. I’m done with you.

  56. Annie B

    @ revolutionarycitizen …….. ( re your comment – December 15, 2014 at 8:54 pm )

    ” Secondly, plenty of bad things in the Bible, a lot of Old Testament stuff
    is violent, which would explain the Qur’an, which is largely based on the
    Old Testament and old Jewish texts which were just as violent. ”

    When will someone – anyone please ( particularly RC ) – realise, that the Old Testament – and the New Testament for that matter – were
    written when barbarism was rife and a way of life. Brutality and cruelty was accepted ……..but most probably very much feared.

    People quaked in their boots – at the mere thought of breaking some rule or regulation. It was the way the world was … THEN.

    This is now …….. and I would hope we have come a little further than those times ( although at this time in world history – I am beginning to have my doubts ) ……….

    ……….

    Another of your comments : ….. ” This isn’t a case of one bad Muslim makes every Muslim bad, it makes one bad ideology make all the good Muslims a miracle… ”

    May I suggest, that statement applies also to alleged Christians ?

    I am not against any religions specifically, as there is good and bad in everthing, but religion – on the whole, has caused more strife in human lives and endeavour, than anything else on earth.

    Just take a hark back in history.

  57. Roswell

    I seem to recall myself that it was Tony Abbott saying it was politically motivated. So I’m with the ed team on this one.

  58. Lee

    “I am having trouble understanding why people are bashing RC. I think his original point is valid. The taking of hostages is a form of racial/ religious bigotry.”

    Really? So when bank robbers take hostages they do so based on religion and race?

  59. Lee

    People are even taking selfies at the scene, and they’re smiling! How low can Australians go?

  60. revolutionarycitizen

    Lee, bank robbers don’t often take hostages and bank robbers aren’t known to wear headbands declaring themselves to be soldiers of whatever deity they believe in ether. This person is acting on his faith and his victims were chosen because they don’t share that faith, that makes him just as xenophobic, racist and bigoted as the article claims others to be.

    Mars, History is an unbroken line, you assume that Islamic Expansionism and the ideals that underpin it ceased at some point, that only shows your complete lack of both history and the ideology.

  61. Lee

    “This person is acting on his faith and his victims were chosen because they don’t share that faith, that makes him just as xenophobic, racist and bigoted as the article claims others to be.”

    And you know the religious faith of the hostages how exactly? Are the IS members in the Middle East who are killing Muslims also racist?

    You’re full of shit. What a fantastic Team Australia you belong to. Your fellow team members are showing no concern for the Team whatsoever as they pose for their selfies.

  62. CMMC

    RC, Christain Crusaders introduced beheading by the sword into the Middle East.

    Hello, do you understand this or are you completely dislocated by Murdoch-induced cognitive dissonance.

  63. mars08

    I’d still like to see a link to the story about his headband….

  64. stephentardrew

    Mars8:

    With you all the way. Was going to post similar but your spot on.

  65. Lee

    “Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate, Physics.

  66. John Fraser

    <

    Never thought I would be advising anyone to do this :

    "RC why don't you listen to Abbott ……….. and shut your big fat bigoted mouth."

  67. LPC

    Headlines like “The Day We Changed Forever” show just how little faith NewsCorp, The Daily Telegraph & Its editors have in Australia, in Freedom & In Democracy.
    If 1 disaffected young criminal can truly change Australia forever then we are an incredibly weak nation

  68. revolutionarycitizen

    John, how nice of you to join us, though I am tempted to call pot kettle black, but that would stop the festivities…

    Lee, the Soviets and Maoists were all atheists, and no one is ever going to accuse them of being nice people…

    Mars, learn Arabic, or know someone who does, or read something more than he AIM or The ABC online…

    CMMC, your point being? Big difference, Christians as a general rule stopped cutting people’s heads off some time ago, what chances are there of the Muhammedians following suit?

    Lee, we know this because we know Lindt Cafe doesn’t serve Halal products, meaning there is a distinct possibility that there won’t be any Muslims inside other than the hostage takers. And as a general rule of thumb Muslim hostage takers let fellow Muslims go, like in recent attacks in Africa. ISIS/ISIL kill according to the traditional law of captives, that and they don’t see Kurds and Shi’ites as Muslims, thus they kill them.

  69. donwreford

    Having lived in London in the first 2 years of WW2, and in a couple of other places in Southern England experiencing the Doodle bugs, skirmishes such as the CBD, and those terrified by the hostage drama, one just by the scale of activity , one becomes fairly immune to this type of incident, what is of concern to me is the supply of weapons to various parts of the planet, such as Britain and the Allies, to places like Syria, in the circle I know of associates, their is a rule not to talk politics of war, Syria has had two hundred deaths as a result of this war, As Australia has never been a war zone, it is outside the psyche of Australians to have fear of war on the scale of Syria, had this or it maybe the case, the urgency and philosophy of war becomes a more serious possibility of a united world that would be a possibility beyond profiteering from war and the question of who’s side you are on? or nationalism? may be in question.

  70. mars08

    @stephentardrew:

    How strange that “history is an unbroken line”… yet so many events of the past 100 years (incited by the West) don’t seem to matter.

  71. Michael Taylor

    RC, you come across as a racist, ethnocentric xenophobe.

  72. audioio

    Victoria didn’t help by calling it “Islamic text”. Neither did the air-headed Channel 7 breakfast host who used the same phrase on Radio National at lunchtime today. If the translation provided above is correct, then it probably is. But no one who used that phrase earlier knew that because they, like most of us commenting here, don’t read Arabic. The language we toss around carelessly fuels the hatred.

  73. Matters Not

    revolutionarycitizen asserted:

    telling you a lot of what you want to hear, doesn’t make it true though.

    Agreed! But could you tell us what makes ‘statements’, ‘assertions’ and the like ‘true’? Is ‘truth’ just a matter of ‘opinion’? And if you ‘believe’ that’s the case, then why? If not, then what ‘objective’ tests of ‘truth’ do you bring to the table?

    Please explain.

    Then we have:

    flag and headband are a religious statement, not a political one

    Are you sure? How do you know? Or is it the case that’s the highly personalised ‘meaning’ you choose to give? On what basis do you decide that some ‘statements’, (problematic in itself) can be separated into ‘political’ and ‘religious’ categories.

    Surely all statements can be interpreted in almost an infinite variety of ways?

    When Sartre asserted ‘God is dead’, was he being ‘religious’ or ‘political’? Your choice.

    Be interested in your response.

  74. Michael Taylor

    Matters Not, I’m certain that the response will be in riddles.

  75. Michele

    I do wish people would say ARABIC script/text/writing NOT Islamic. Islam is a religion the text is not.

  76. Annie B

    NO …. Lee …

    …… your comment ……1) ” Really? So when bank robbers take hostages they do so based on religion and race? ” ………. AND

    …… 2) ” The taking of hostages is a form of racial/ religious bigotry.” …………..

    The bank robbers ‘ideology’ is the taking of cash – by foul and / or menacing means.

    They are crims …….. and act as crims. On occasion they take hostages, to get what they want – ……. and to hell with religion & race.

    They might claim at some time, to be Christian, Hindu, Muslim or any of the other 4200 religions that abound in this world …. but they are motivated by greed and pursuit of money – and ‘getting away with it ‘………. far more than anything whatsoever to do with religion or race.

    ……………

    As for your other comment here …….. (2) …….. The taking of hostages, in history, has a myriad of reasons behind it ….. and many times nothing to do with ” racial / religious bigotry ” ,,,,,,,,,,, There are a myriad of reasons for the taking of hostages … including domestic upheavals, utterly deranged / psychotic reasons, or the hope of ransom $$$ for the safe return of hostages – and a host of other reasons. ……… PLUS .. … religion and race – but that is very much in the minority – – prior to this time.

    Maybe it will become the ‘flavour of the month’ …. ‘racial/religious bigotry’ ……. to achieve whatever a perp. wants it to achieve ???????????

  77. Lee

    “Lee, we know this because we know Lindt Cafe doesn’t serve Halal products, meaning there is a distinct possibility that there won’t be any Muslims inside other than the hostage takers. ”

    Oh yeah, because Lindt chocolates are packed full of pork products. Milk is naturally permissible for observant Muslims.

  78. Matters Not

    Michele pointed out that there is a distinction between Islamic and Arabic, in much the same way as there is a distinction between Jews and ‘Jewish’.

    True that!

  79. Lee

    “As for your other comment here …….. (2) …….. The taking of hostages, in history, has a myriad of reasons behind it ….. ”

    It wasn’t my comment. I quoted it. Undies made the comment.

  80. mars08

    @Michele…

    I think there are two issues here.

    First, those who jump to the conclusion that the writing on the banner was Islamic rather than Arabic. This is most likely ignorance on their part. Or a failure to understand the difference between a religion and a language.

    Second… as it turns out… the words on the banner WERE “Islamic text” in the sense that it quoted from Muslim teachings. It’s “text” in the same way that the Parables of Jesus are biblical texts.

    For what it’s worth, the Arabic words on the banner are essentially the same as the first commandment… “You shall have no other gods before me”

    Of course we can only guess at the context.

  81. revolutionarycitizen

    MT, I merely pointed out the racist, bigoted and xenophobic nature of the ideology involved. You’re the one who mentioned ethnicity, maybe you’re projecting? And you know my ethnicity how exactly? You’re “only whites can be racist” attitude is the only racism being displayed here.

    Matters, a flag stating the first commandment and a headband professing the wearer to be a soldier of their prophet isn’t a religious statement in your eyes? I’d like to look inside your head just to see where such bastardised logic is formed and how such leaps on unreason are made. Truth is a perception unique to the individual, what is true to me may not be true to you, a fact on the other hand, is a fact, fact being, this man is a Muslim, committing an act of terror in the name of Islam, because militant Islam is ever bit racist, bigoted and xenophobic as every other totalitarian ideology.

    Mars, how short-sighted you are, Islam has existed for 1,400 years, what inspired it in the beginning inspires it today, its ideology and followers have never ceased in the relentless drive for expansion. A century to Islam is nothing.

  82. Lee

    “Mars, how short-sighted you are, Islam has existed for 1,400 years, what inspired it in the beginning inspires it today, its ideology and followers have never ceased in the relentless drive for expansion.”

    Once again Dumbarse Citizen shows his ignorance. Muslims are not allowed to evangelise. They are to be an example to others. Painting all Muslims as terrorists is the equivalent of saying all Christians are like the members of the Westboro Baptist Church. IS members are not behaving according to the instructions within the religion of Islam. They are making up their own rules, just like the LNP front bench does.

  83. Michael Taylor

    For your information, RC, I’m of Arabic descent. Half my blood is Arabic.

  84. DanDark

    RC dont come on here and demonize all Muslims, to make your broad assumption like you have is just bullshit really, and we know it on here
    White Aussie men take hostages too , just take a walk back in history in this country
    Did this event change Australia, nooo it didnt
    my point is anyone is capable of taking hostages for a ransom or something they want, or to make a point of some sort

    “The Faraday School kidnapping occurred on 6 October 1972 at a one-teacher school in the village of Faraday in Victoria, Australia, where two unemployed friends, Edwin John Eastwood and Robert Clyde Boland, kidnapped six female pupils and their teacher for a $1,000,000 ransom.

    Eastwood and Boland entered the school armed with a sawn-off shotgun at about 3:00pm, and forced the teacher, 20-year-old Mary Gibbs, and her six pupils (girls aged between 5 and 10) into a red delivery van, leaving a note at the school threatening to kill all of the hostages unless a $1,000,000 cash ransom was paid. They were driven off into a remote area in the bush.

    That evening, the Premier of Victoria, Dick Hamer, announced that the State Government was prepared to pay the ransom. The Victorian Education Minister and future Premier, Lindsay Thompson, was driven to the scene by Assistant Commissioner W.D.(Bill) Crowley masquerading as the minister’s driver and armed with a trousered derringer pistol. Future Chief Commissioner S.I. (Mick) Miller was concealed under a blanket in the rear of the car with a high powered rifle. Thompson waited to personally deliver the ransom, but it was never collected. In the early hours of the next morning, the kidnappers told Gibbs they were going to collect the ransom and left her and the pupils.

    When they were gone, Gibbs managed to kick the door panel out with her heavy, platform-heeled leather boots and escape with the children in the dark, finding help a few kilometres away. Eastwood and Boland were captured by heavily armed Victoria Police officers after an extensive manhunt.

    Eastwood pleaded guilty to seven counts of kidnapping in December 1972 and was sentenced to fifteen years’ imprisonment with a non-parole period of ten years; three armed robbery charges against him were taken into consideration in exchange for evidence against Boland.

    Boland was convicted by a jury in March 1974 after three trials and was sentenced to seventeen years’ imprisonment with a non-parole period of twelve years, although Eastwood has maintained that Boland was innocent and that the real co-kidnapper was an ex-convict that Thomson spoke to at Woodend, who had been detained at the scene but later released.[1]
    On 22 January 1973 Mary Gibbs was awarded a George Medal for her bravery.[2]
    Eastwood’s escape and second kidnapping[edit]
    On 16 December 1976, Edwin Eastwood escaped from Geelong Prison after stealing a car.

    On 15 February 1977, he kidnapped a teacher and nine pupils from the Wooreen State School in Gippsland, Victoria. While driving off, he collided with a truck and held the driver and his partner hostage. Twenty minutes later, another log truck came along and Eastwood waved it to a stop before taking the driver and passenger hostage. He then commandeered a campervan with two female occupants and also took them hostage.

    Finally, with sixteen hostages, he demanded a ransom of US$7 million, guns, 100 kilograms of heroin and cocaine, and the release of seventeen inmates from Pentridge Prison.[3] However, one of the hostages escaped and notified police, and Eastwood fled with the remaining hostages; after the campervan was disabled by police gunfire at Woodside, Eastwood was shot below the right knee and re-captured by police. (Eastwood claimed that he was shot after surrendering to police whilst unarmed.)

  85. Michael Taylor

    Actually, DanDark, I’m growing very tired of RC. In my opinion he only comes here to disrupt the discussion.

  86. revolutionarycitizen

    MT, and that means what exactly? Met plenty or racist Arabs, met plenty of racist Asians too, even come across some racist Africans, Indians and Aboriginals, just because you happen to be half Arab doesn’t make you less likely to be any less racist than anyone else.

    Mars, maybe you should look up what Dawaa means…

    Dan, Context my boy, context. I nor anyone claimed other people don’t do whatever it is you’re claiming they do. And none of the hostage situations you mentioned involved a public display of or were motivated by the religion of those involved.

  87. DanDark

    “Lee, we know this because we know Lindt Cafe doesn’t serve Halal products, meaning there is a distinct possibility that there won’t be any Muslims inside other than the hostage takers. ”
    Wrong again RC….

    “The chocolate lindt do not contain pork fat all. Muslims can therefore also enjoy eating this chocolate.”

    http://www.answers.com/Q/Does_chocolate_lindt_contain_pork_fat

  88. DanDark

    Yep Michael……RC is a WC full of shit 🙂

  89. Michael Taylor

    RC, I mentioned that because you were making assumptions about people. Now you’re making assumptions that I might be racist. I don’t like that.

  90. dennis

    Not hard to work out, RC=IPA, sounds like Chris Berg

  91. Matters Not

    revolutionarycitizen blurted:

    I’d like to look inside your head just to see where such bastardised logic is formed and how such leaps on unreason are made

    Feel free. But I suspect it’s a ‘bridge too far’.

    As for ‘bastardised’ logic and ‘unreasoned’ logic’, you, yourself, provide some classic examples.

    Yep! You’re now a figure of fun. Congratulations.

    Finally an achievement of sorts?

  92. Michael Taylor

    Actually, DanDark/Dennis, I dread it every time I see his face here.

  93. Dandark

    Michael,I prefer neil of Sydney, this bloke RC is just a nasty bigot full of hate for people who think or look different to him, but they are out there, so its just dealing with the morons is the test…Neil just usually stuck to figures and numbers, mostly wrong but yep this bloke is another Chris Berg……

  94. stephentardrew

    Michael:

    Time to give RC the flick.

    We try to promote rational thinking and some semblance of logic so why would we bother with such unadulterated nonsense.

    It’s just bloody boring.

    Ridiculous Citizen always wears out his welcome so why encourage such foolishness.

    Time for the big sleep RC.

  95. Michael Taylor

    I haven’t seen Neil here for a long time. I don’t miss him and I don’t think anybody else does either. I’m happy for him to stay away.

  96. Michael Taylor

    Stephen, I have given that some thought. Not a bad idea.

  97. Dandark

    One troll leaves another takes its place
    Thats a Life as they say 🙂

  98. revolutionarycitizen

    Dan, unless it is certified it is unlikely to be eaten by a Muslim, thus the whole Halal certification debate… please try and keep up with current events.

    Steph, you talk big, though I doubt you have either the intellectual capacity or the bravado to to give anyone “the big sleep”…

    Matters, my initial post was absolutely logical and suck within the literal definitions of the words I used, not a very difficult concept to understand I would have thought.

    MT, it was you made your own ethnicity an issue, as though it would give you some additional credibility, I merely pointed out you could be as likely to be as racist as anyone else is and the colour of your skin had nothing to do with it. The very literal opposite of racism on my part…

  99. Brenda

    The treasurer is about to make a most damning announcement, the treasurer increases funding to ASIO, an unidentified man takes hostages and the treasurers incompetence is off the front pages.

  100. Brenda

    Rev cit “and suck within the literal definitions of the words I used” why are you worried about such drivel, the government is screwing us.

  101. Choppa

    Oh wow. Here I was writing a comment explaining that Michael bans everyone who points out the many inaccuracies on this site or who dare to have an alternate view point….to find my post was blocked. So let me try a new IP address.

    If you’ve seen that IS IS video where they stop a few trucks and quiz the drivers on their particular ideology. Incorrect answers resulted in a bullet to the head. There’s some similarities to how left websites including this one operate. You either answer as the left want or boom. …you’re gone. Intolerance of difference is something you lot share with these terrorist pigs. You allow your short sighted readers to attack whoever dares to share a different view point. Yet can’t handle some logical points that show up the limitations of your ideas and authors.

    The hypocrisy and contradictions make this site good value though.

  102. stephentardrew

    Put a smile on your dials brethren:

    ALP support surged to 57.5% (up 4%) now well ahead of the L-NP 42.5% (down 4%) on a two-party preferred basis this weekend. This is the ALP’s biggest lead since early June 2014. If a Federal Election were held now the ALP would win easily according to this week’s Morgan Poll on voting intention conducted with an Australia-wide cross-section of 3,007 Australian electors aged 18+ over the last two weekends.

    15 point difference TPP.

  103. stephentardrew

    RC: I am so frightened.

  104. stephentardrew

    Choppa: very few people get banned on this site. Go over the the Australian and see how progressives fare there. Give it a miss will ya.

    Well it seems to me there might be some relationship between Choppa and RC. Wonder what it is?

  105. Peter Whewell

    Here in Victoria, in the past couple of months, there have been some instances of what we would call sieges, where individuals have held police at bay with or without hostages. In the main they have turned out to be mentally troubled people. If they had displayed a flag indicating that they were supporting some hard line terrorist faction they would, no doubt, have received the attention that this incident is attracting. It is entirely possible that the situation in Martin Place is the action of a lone, mentally troubled person who has no real connection to any terrorist group. What concerns me is that (a) There has been an enormous over reaction to an incident where one (reportedly) person has committed a crime which, with the absence of the flag, would have been reported as, “Lone gunman holds up Coffee shop in Sydney”. (b) If, indeed, the crime is an act of terrorism, why are the media and the government giving these people the media attention that they set out to achieve? If this is, indeed an “act of terrorism” then the best thing to do is deny the terrorist the media attention that they crave.(c) There will undoubtedly be a backlash against the Muslim community in Australia following the way that this has been handled which could have easily been avoided by reporting this incident as a person (race, religion undisclosed) committing a crime without concentrating on the fact that a flag was shown at the scene and ascribing totally unsubstantiated claims that this is a “terrorist attack” on the people of Australia.

  106. Michael Taylor

    Choppa, your post might not have got through as certain words get ‘blocked’ and you might have used one of them.

  107. Choppa

    and as for the inaccuracies. ISIS use that flag a lot – a great example found here:

    http://metro.co.uk/2014/09/05/shocking-isis-photos-show-baby-holding-an-ak-47-and-lying-on-islamic-state-flag-4858305/.

    The bloke has requested their official flag. There’s no fear mongering – he is a product of ISIS propaganda.

    The better comments from the realists say something like this – “now we have to put up with months of the left making excuses for these people”. How right they are.

    Funny – i’ve been glued to sky news, Murdoch’s terrible, terrible right propaganda machine. All they’ve been doing over and over again is praising the response of the muslim community, interviewing and agreeing with the muslims they’ve interviewed and making sure they don’t feed the public anything that may cause fear.

    Bout time you realised its websites like this that push only one agenda and aim to stir hate and fear. Though you wouldn’t get any hits otherwise would you.

  108. Michael Taylor

    PS, it is wrong to assume that I banned you. There are a dozen people who have admin rights on this site and all have the authority to act individually. However, I support any decision or action they take.

  109. Michael Taylor

    Choppa, doesn’t the Murdoch media thrive on generating hate and fear? We just hate different things. 🙂

  110. Liam

    All I can say is watch the YouTube videos of the hostages and tell me the ‘terrorists’ intentions and whether or not it has anything to do with Islam or Isis…. REALLY. WATCH THEM!!! These ppl are there because some mad Islamist think that everyone should believe in Allah and the Koran… Blind idiots

  111. Michael Taylor

    Choppa, let me clarify.

    No one is technically banned from commenting here. Some people, however, have their comments moderated. That is, their comments await approval before being released. Those people have a history of posting abuse or defamatory comments.

    Unfortunately, some spammers have developed a program which makes WordPress sites crash (momentarily, fortunately), when spam or comments awaiting moderation are being cleared. The downside of that is that many comments will be lost forever, but we have no control over that.

  112. Michael Taylor

    Liam, I can’t disagree with you.

    I disagree with the Murdoch media’s response, however.

  113. Choppa

    Fair enough Michael – but the thing is there’s really no point patting yourself on the back for feedback from an audience you know agrees already.

    So the fellas came to oz as a refugee in 1996. I don’t think you can blame anyone for making the refugee issue a central focus again. Open borders as per Rudd will let in more decent refugees than bad….but that’s not the point. If denying 1000 refugees to keep out one bad guy helps prevent things like this – then I doubt you’ll see anything but support for even tighter refugee laws. Hopefully it ends peacefully but you can’t blame people for not just getting on with their lives and pretending nothing ever happened.

    This isn’t an Australian issue – Australia’s response to the islamic movement has been mild thus far compared to most other developed countries.

    THis bloke appears to have already been under the microscope for other crimes – there’s some obvious failures there somewhere. Perhaps after he sent letters to digger’s families after the were killed on duty we should’ve had laws that allow us to kick this scum out of the country. The soft approach doesn’t work.

  114. Michael Taylor

    Choppa, I’m perplexed. If this guy was known to police, how come he had an illegal weapon? Did they know about this, I wonder. Isn’t it their job to find such things out.

    Of course I’m not blaming the police, so don’t get me wrong.

  115. Michael Taylor

    PS, people like getting a pat on the back. 😉

  116. Brenda

    Choppa sounds like you are describing the Murdoch media. I gave up trying to post anything there years ago because they never let any comment through but here you are able to have an opinion on this rabid left wing rag. says it all really.

  117. Brenda

    Choppa have just read some more of your posts, bit worried about your mental state. Rudd was not the PM in 1996 and 500 police doing dawn SWAT attacks on Muslim homes is extreme. Happily what those attacks proved was that at the beginning of Abbotts war on Australians there was no significant “homegrown terror”. (or if there was ,worryingly, it showed the AFP were completely unable to uncover it) given the AFP have been guilty of leaking meta data and leaving plastic explosives at an airport I don’t have great confidence in them.

  118. Brenda

    How about that the Siege gun man was well known by ASIO “On 22 January 2014, Haron told magistrate Joan Baptie that he was representing himself and proceeded to talk about documents ASIO has on him that he wanted to see. He told the court he has been charged in connection to the murder of his ex-wife because ASIO is conspiring against him” from wikipedia

  119. Lee

    “Dan, unless it is certified it is unlikely to be eaten by a Muslim, thus the whole Halal certification debate… please try and keep up with current events.”

    Gee one wonders how Muslims managed to eat for centuries before halal certification. Next time you’re in the supermarket get your head out of your arse and observe how the Muslims manage to fill a supermarket trolley with foods that are not halal certified.

  120. Lee

    http://www.news.com.au/national/martin-place-cafe-siege-police-storm-cafe-and-kill-gunman-sheik-man-haron-monis-report/story-fncynjr2-1227157498633

    “Monis was known to police and as a self-styled preacher of Islamic State on bail for accessory to murder, as the gunman who was holding 15 terrified hostages in Sydney’s Lindt cafe.
    Haron was also charged this year with indecent and sexual assault of women in 2002. Monis was hit with an additional 40 charges in October.”

    So he may have chosen this route rather than face prison where, being Muslim, he would undoubtedly have a very unpleasant stay.

  121. mars08

    So… the hostage take was Iranian and had previous dealings with police.

    Wait… hmmm… IRANIAN? Aren’t those dudes Shia? And isn’t ISIS a Sunni organisation.?

    Ahhh… but they’re all Muslim. Right? All party of a master plan of global domination. And he DID demand an ISIS banner from the police. Apparently. Besides… he was wearing a headband with some (still unconfirmed) “Islamic” writing on it.

    Oooooohhhh eeeeek shuddder…. be afraid.

  122. Lee

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/gunman-man-haron-monis-was-damaged-self-styled-muslim-cleric/story-fnqxbywy-1227157547335

    “MAN HARON Monis, the gunman killed as the Sydney cafe siege came to an end, is a self-styled Muslim cleric who was born in Iran and came to Australia as a refugee in 1996.

    Monis, 50, who has also gone by the names of Sheikh Haron and Mohammad Hassan Manteghi, was no stranger to Australian authorities, achieving notoriety in 2010 after he sent letters to the families of Diggers who had lost their lives in Afghanistan, accusing them of being murderers.

    He claimed in the court the condition was a breach of his freedom of speech.

    “This is against human rights because if my family are the victims of a terrorist attack, I will not be able to contact them,” he told reporters outside Sydney’s Downing Centre Local Court in February 2010.”

    “In November last year, Monis was charged with being an ­accessory before and after the fact to the murder of his ex-wife, who was allegedly stabbed and set alight in her apartment complex. In March, he was charged with sexually and indecently assaulting a young woman in 2002.

    Those who know him painted a picture of an unstable individual moti­vations were not ­entirely clear.

    Monis’ former lawyer Manny Conditsis describes him as a “damaged goods individual” with an ideology that clouds his common sense. “This is a one-off random individual,” Mr Conditsis told ABC television during the siege.”

    So much for a terrorist attack! Before anyone jumps on the bandwagon about not taking refugees in because this could happen, studies have shown that most refugees assimilate into the community and are productive, contributing members of society.

  123. mars08

    @Lee… you are very mistaken…

    It’s all part of a determined, sustained “Islamic Expansion” plot… and they’re all in on it…

  124. John Fraser

    <

    Whats the difference ?

    Cape Grim massacre (one of many)

    Hoddle Street massacre.

    Queen Street massacre.

    Surry Hills shooting.

    Strathfield shootings.

    Central Coast massacre.

    Cangai siege.

    Port Arthur massacre.

    Martin Place siege.

    There's no difference.

    They are all examples of extremists/murderers.

    Just read the "Comments/Facebook/Twitter" from "Choppa" and "revolutionarycitizen" and the rest of the extreme right wing religious groups.

    No different from those who committed these outrages and who left plenty of reasons as to why they did it.

    <

    Just like those who responded to #illridewithyou, I am quite proud to call out those who try to demonise a race of people, demonise a group for their religious beliefs.

    And I am a white anglo Australian with no religious beliefs.

  125. Matthew Oborne

    Reading all this you can see moments of glee visible from revolutionary twitizen. Just plain sick, This is not something a sane person would use against any group.

  126. Zathras

    I suppose we should expect some sort of Cronulla-like backlash from those who want to keep up the momentum of their own bigotry and hate.
    And so the wheel keeps on turning.

  127. Lee

    The politicians are saying we should not let the Sydney seize weaken our resolve. Our resolve to do what exactly? It’s a shame they’re not referring to the resolve to address the domestic violence problem that kills one woman per week in this country. Notice too that the murder of this man’s ex-wife only rates a mention in most articles below the fact that he sent some offensive letters to people.

  128. Anomander

    This bloke was a random “nutter”, no different to all the other insane cretins roaming the streets with their own personal axe to grind. This bloke’s twisted mind conjured-up some radical brand of belief, which he used as justification for his actions. Again, no different to any paranoid Christian, Jewish or general lunatic.

    The most disturbing aspect of the whole matter is the level of hyperbole coming from our media, ably supported by our politicians who see it as an opportunity to aggrandise themselves as leaders.

    Good article in SMH about this… http://www.smh.com.au/comment/martin-place-cafe-siege-overreaction-from-fear-is-a-measure-of-a-terrorists-success-20141215-127rih.html

  129. mars08

    So_ the hostage-taker was out on bail and had previous dealings with police for some very serious offences.

    Wait_ hmmm_he was Iranian? Aren’t those dudes Shia? And isn’t ISIS a Sunni organisation? Didn’t I read that Iran was at war against ISIS? And… as far as we know he made no religious/political demands for the release of the hostages… so not your stereotypical “terrorist”.

    A disturbed loner, isolated from our society and shunned by the so-called “Muslim community”. But he WAS Muslim….!

    Oooooohhhh eeeeek shuddder_. be afraid.

  130. John Fraser

    <

    "he sought to cloak his actions with the symbolism of the ISIL death cult."

    and

    ""His ideology is just so strong and so powerful that it clouds his vision for common sense and objectiveness,"

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-16/iranian-man-haron-monis-named-as-man-behind-sydney-siege/5969246

    An Iranian Sunni ….. mentally unbalanced.

    Not at all what the same (anglo) religious right wing extremists have been describing.

    They have been describing themselves but they don't have the insight to see that.

  131. CompletelyLost

    Assbbott declaring this was an act of the death cult, others claiming an ISIS flag being waved, cold hard facts, this guy was Shia, IS are Sunni, the two are sworn enemies, so unless this guy renounced his beliefs, there is no way he was or ever a part of the death cult ISIS as Assbbot’s claim

  132. mars08

    But… but… he was a Muslim! He had a beard and everything!

    Predictably the MSM insists on calling it a “terrorist attack” today. Thereby putting the focus on his twisted interpretation of his religion… rather than the anti-social problems of the individual.

  133. stephentardrew

    In short he was a nut case who could have belong to any ideology of extremists it just so happened he was Muslim.

  134. oldfart

    this is a terrible event, perpetrated by a lone man who apparently had lost touch with reality and reasonable behavior. this was not a terrorist(political) event. Yes he terrorized people, but he was not a member of any terrorist organisation. I just hope that politicians show some respect to the victims and their families and not try to get political mileage out of this.

    Yet something wonderful happened in Sydney with the birth of the ” I’ll ride with you” movement which is designed to make Muslim people feel safer in public and not made targets of by bigots. Google the story, it demonstrates a truly Aussie spirit

  135. Lee

    “Yet something wonderful happened in Sydney with the birth of the ” I’ll ride with you” movement which is designed to make Muslim people feel safer in public and not made targets of by bigots.”

    Yes it is. Even better, it was not initiated by politicians or Murdoch.

  136. mars08

    I got it wrong. The hostage taker DID make demands.

  137. Lee

    Sorry Mars, but Dumbarse Citizen got a lot more wrong than you did. Lift your game!

  138. stephentardrew

    Lee:

    Its good to remember how many decent people there are out there who counterbalance ideological fanaticism and madness.

  139. Lee

    #illridewithyou = the fear-mongerers and bigots lose. They’re a bigger threat to our way of life than terrorism.

  140. mars08

    One of his demands was for an ISIS flag. What was he thinking?

  141. eli nes

    No difference for the victims but BIGOTRY may provide the lasting the difference, John. The disease is easily c(t)aught and constantly spread in homes, schools, workplaces and social media. It provides vibrant copy for journalists and morning shows. Yet can be ‘untaught’. Are there no modern programs for journalists, pollies, teachers, police and the public service like jane elliot’s brown eyes, blue eyes????

    As for the NSW police force when confronted with an armed man, a known criminal with a long established police profile, demanding a flag and phone call????? It was very sad that there was no unarmed police negotiator with or without Muslim support who could operate with such simple demands to reach a negotiated solution?????

  142. Lee

    Bill Shorten: “I believe that Australians understand that we will not reward the perpetrators of this inhuman violence by dividing, which is what this act was aimed to do. I think we are stronger and cleverer; we are both tenderer and tougher, than the people who would try and divide our society.”

    Oh the irony!

  143. mars08

    “…we will not reward the perpetrators of this inhuman violence by dividing, which is what this act was aimed to do….”

    Is THAT what he was aiming to do, Bill? Really?

    Lazy opportunistic jerk.

  144. Jexpat

    Well, once again it looks from the above that Shorten flew off the handle trying to out tough talk Tony… without waiting for the facts to come in.

    Turns out this guy was just an unhinged individual with personal beefs and a firearm- dime a dozen situation in the US (which is why most of their non-Murdoch papers have dropped the story like a hot potato).

    That and the fact that they have yet another mass shooting with six people dead in Pennsylvania.

  145. jk

    sometimes peoples reaction to a comment is to call it bigotry ,, sometimes it is just why the hell was this man let into the country and why was he not deported as soon as he was found to be an undesirable character ,,, there are numerous number of refugees that have come to australia and i have no issues with that ,,

  146. Annie B

    @ Lee …. re your comment ( December 15, 2014 at 10:44 pm )

    Sorry about that. …… It was the way I read what you had written ….. thought the whole lot was yours, but you had quoted and replied.

    I should slow down in my reading. !!! 😉

  147. mars08

    It’s crazy and grotesque.

    Today the MSM is telling us not to panic, not to tag all Muslims as terrorists, not to speculate and not let this event paralyse us with fear. And in the next breath they’re screeching that this sort of “lone wolf” attack could happen anywhere and is impossible to predict.

    So much bullshit in the media these days. You need wings to stay above it.

  148. Annie B

    The loner hostage taker at the Lindt Coffee House, …… was decidedly bad, most likely insane or at least very mentally challenged, and used ‘terrorism’ to make his mark. …….. And the media went along with it – gave him what he wanted ( not that it did him much good in the end ).

    If, as mars08 and others have pointed out here, he was a Shia Muslim – and there’s no reason to doubt that ……… what better way to damn, frighten and cast doubt upon, the Sunni Muslims than to use a flag THEY use as a profession of their faith – and then to request the ISIS flag – which is different.

    These flags are easily come by. …… and more so – easily made in any home that has a piece of black cloth, some white paint, images of the profession of faith flags ( Shia and Sunni ) – from the internet ……. a steady hand and well trained eye to produce such a flag.

    Way out I know – but it could be done …….. by anyone. …. Bigots could do it – just to cast aspersions at Muslims in general – for the hell of it.

    btw …. the Sunni and Shia flags – professions of faith – are very similar from a distance and to the untrained eye. ….. but on closer inspection, the Shia flag is far more intricate in it’s formation, than is the Sunni flag.

    Both white on black. … Different again to the ISIS flag.

    I stand to be corrected, but I heard – and was of the opinion ( from observation – now ) …….. that the flag shown in the window was the Sunni flag – which quite simply means that this ‘act’ WAS indeed meant to denote terrorism —- and WAS designed to shame and denounce the Sunni Muslims.

    So – probably religion was behind it – in a twisted mind. ….. A case of Shia vs. Sunni. ….. to put it simply.

  149. Lee

    One news report that I read stated that the gunman had recently converted from Shia to Sunni.

  150. mars08

    The “recent convert” angle is a bit of a worry. So much trouble being caused by over-enthusiastic converts

    BTW… the banner in the cafe window was not Persian. It was Arabic text.

  151. End Time Boogie

    Being blond & white are racial features, murder is an action. Mass murder is an action often associated with dogmatists but not in the case of Martin Bryant, he is a simple spree killer. Was/is Breivick considered a terrorist, how many links would you like, yes he was from the moment his first bomb exploded having written and published a dogmatic manifesto. The blurring of race & dogma has made the writer blind to an intollerant dogma, Islam, the unabrogated Sura9:29 being but example on the basis of race, ironic.

  152. Rob031

    @revolutionarycitizenDecember 15, 2014 at 10:49 pm said:

    Truth is a perception unique to the individual, what is true to me may not be true to you, a fact on the other hand, is a fact, fact being, [such and such…]

    So, RC, what, in your mind is a “True Fact

    In relation to “Truth is a perception unique to the individual, what is true to me may not be true to you

    Sounds to me like Post Modernist Mumbo jumbo. RC: You’re putting the above forward as some kind of non-personal truth (ie. objective fact) – unless, of course, it is merely “True for you”. Perhaps you did Sociology 101 many years ago and became infatuated with the lecturer.

    RC I suggest you substitute “believed to be true by me/you/the cat etc.” for ‘true’ – in which case your main point is reduced to a trivial truism.

    You do write fairly well, however.

  153. mars08

    When it comes to conspiracy theories, I am NOT a fan. I don’t pay much attention.

    But… there are a few things about this incident that seem screwy to me….

    Man Haron Monis took hostages. That seems strange given that extremists usually just kill a bunch of people to make their point.

    Monis was an Iranian, yet the banner he carried into the cafe was written in Arabic, not Persian.

    Iran does not supports ISIS, but Man Haron Monis made a point of his allegiance to that group of Sunni militants.

    Apparently he ordered one (or more) of his hostages to call radio host, Ray Hadley… a well-known, right-wing bigot.

    He was not liked or respected by other Muslims… and had major troubles with the law… yet was out on bail.

    Seems that although he was a Shia cleric, he had recently (and conveniently) converted to Sunni Islam.

    Good thing I’m not into conspiracy theories….

  154. Phi

    The great thing about having to post under a banner and name is that once we have read the ranting of a true-blue bigot we can then skim right past their following rants – RC presents us with a fine example.

  155. Kezza

    I have been following this jerk’s antics for a few years. The authorities are to blame here for not deporting him when they saw his hate mail episodes to families of deceased Aus soldiers. He used our court system for years, appeal after appeal, and I bet nobody told him what a A…hole he was!!! Some lawyers will have to have a good look in the mirror.

    One of the press actually referred to him last night as a gentleman, and I saw a clip of the police showing him some respect when he was ranting and raving in the street some time ago.

    Why did the police not get the grand mufti or equivalent to knock on the cafe door and tell him to get real?? They also had the SAS there but didn’t use them either. No measures were taken, just hang around till something good may happen and everyone walks away – right?
    If one of my family had died in this incident, I would be making some serious comments on TV.

  156. dennis

    Has any one got this email crap Yet???

    SANDPAPER 007 – 151400K DEC 2014

    The events unfolding in Sydney today are mind-boggling for the average citizen to comprehend. We may anticipate an avalanche of questions from the man in the street along these lines,

    “Who are these people?”

    “Why do they do it?”

    “What can they possibly achieve?”

    “What is the government doing about it?”

    “What can I do?”

    The answers of course are simple and easy to find.

    “They are Muslims.”

    “They do it because the Quran tells them to do it.”

    “They hope to conquer all of the non-Muslims on the planet and install Sharia law in all places in all countries.”

    “The government is hoping against hope that they will just go away because they have been ignoring it all for far too long.”

    “There are a number of things you can do.”

    watch this video: http://www.israelvideonetwork.com/the-most-important-film-ever-made-on-radical-islam/
    read the quran
    read the hadith
    read travellers companion
    educate yourself about Islam
    google “the four Arabic words that every infidel should know”
    join an anti-Islam group (The Q Society would be a good start)
    join your local ‘Stop-the-Mosque’ group (otherwise start one up in your local area now before it is too late)
    meet your local Councillors, and educate them about Islam
    warn them if they support any push to build a mosque then they will be voted out of office at the earliest opportunity and they risk being sued by the people through the courts
    find and meet with your local State representative
    educate them as for Councillors
    warn them as for Councillors
    find and meet your federal representative
    educate them as for Councillors
    warn them as for Councillors
    lobby your local Councillors and State and Federal representatives to address the Trojan Horse of Islam in our midst and neutralise it – permanently
    lobby your representatives at Federal level to define all Muslims as ‘enemy aliens’ and then intern all enemy aliens for the duration of hostilities
    lobby your representative to acknowledge that we are under attack by Islam and therefore AT WAR

    Go out into the street and the shops today, and talk to people while this is a hot topic. Engage them in conversation. When they ask those questions above, give them the simple answers, and encourage them to find out more. Cut and paste this SANDPAPER and print some copies. Hand them out. Urge people to follow the advice within this paper. Email it to all your friends and contacts.

    Above all, don’t sit on your hands and do nothing… even if it’s only to talk about it within your group.

  157. mars08

    “Why did the police not get the grand mufti or equivalent to knock on the cafe door and tell him to get real??…”

    Too right mate!

    Because if I’d lost the plot and the Cardinal of Sydney, Jimmy Barnes or the f&cking Lord Mayor told me to “get real” I’d immediately snap back into gear.

    Get real, indeed.

  158. Annie B

    mars08 is correct ….. the writing is Arabic .. … and always will be from what I gather. …… Shia and Sunni alike, write in Arabic, as do many Middle Eastern countries and peoples.

    However, there is a dialect ( and presumably writing – but not in this case – flag in the window ) …… in Iran, that reverts to the ancient Kingdom of Persia – as Iran once was. It does use Persian in writing – perhaps only in Iran, and only by certain people or tribes in Iran ? Beyond that I don’t know.

    Just sayin ‘……

    ——–

    Off topic – somewhat. …….

    ………. ” Iran is a relatively modern contraction of the name Airyana Vaeja
    (the ancient homeland of the Airya or Aryans). ” ……..

    ” The names Iran and Persia are often used interchangeably to mean the same country.”
    http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/iranpersia/

    So – what about Hitler and his desire to produce an ‘Aryan’ peoples – which was a purity of race. ….. it has many implications, applications, and history, stretching back eons – and including Nordic countries as well. A mind blowing subject, actually.

    Again – just sayin’ ……….

    ———-

    mars08 said : ” Iran does not supports ISIS, but Man Haron Monis made a point of his allegiance to that group of Sunni militants ”

    I still believe Monis did that to in fact try and get as many Australian people as possible, to totally turn against ALL Muslims ( who are mostly Sunni here, but not the extremist Sunni – as in ISIS, except for a few misguided eff-wits ) – by his actions and his display of the Sunni black and white flag in the Window.

    He may have thought – in his insane logic,

    ……………” Look here – I am Sunni – and I will destroy,
    ……………..hold in hostage and terrorise as many as I can “.

    The very LAST thing he might have expected was the ” I’ll ride with you” by Australians, to help protect their terrified Muslim neighbours, or any Muslim that needs help.

    …………

    THAT is the true Australian spirit …… “I’ll ride with you”. …… It just might show this shocking LNP mob, that they cannot, divide and destroy – or break Australians down.

  159. Kaye Lee

    Anyone who brings up “halal certification” loses credibility with me. What do you care what they eat? Are you also angry with vegetarians or gluten free and free range labelling? What about Catholics eating fish on Fridays?

  160. mars08

    Anyone who claims that Australian Muslims are not condemning or criticising violent Islamic militants has NO credibility.

  161. Rob031

    I watched 7:30 tonight. All of Australia is traumatised by the events in Martin Place, and so on. Turnbull is fighting back tears as he relates the mood on a train he’s been on. Abbott tries to give the impression of one who ever-so-deeply cares. Shorten tries to do much the same.

    I’m not traumatised; but then again maybe it’s a Sydney thing and I don’t live in Sydney. To some extent the whole bruhaha reminds me of the cricketer who was killed by the ball – or even the death of Lady Diana. Geez. It’s as though many in the news media feel it’s their duty to tell us all how to feel, and to console us – rather than reporting the facts and letting us feel what we feel.
    ———-
    As for Turnbull. I kinda suspect that he’s probably genuine – and throws Abbott’s ‘performance’ in a cool and obviously contrived light as he did on the death of Whitlam.

    Shorten needs coaching lessons when it comes to reading from a pre-prepared speech – though he’s fine when speaking off the cuff. Bill, if you or one of your staff is reading, give Michael Taylor on AIMN a ring and get my contact details. Or find someone else to give you some coaching. You do need it.

  162. stephentardrew

    Why do people love to hate. Because of lack of education and suitable intermixing with people from other cultures. Family attitudes going back generations repeated without thought or reason.

    And they want to gut education for the poor while gifting the wealthy. The damn well know what they are doing because they want the haters in their camp and they are willing to compromise their moral responsibility to do it.

    You cannot trust a bunch of inveterate liars and furthermore you cannot expect our children to think critically while they so easily twist the truth to suit their dystopian ends.

    Anti science, anti logic, complicit in compulsive lying and we are supposed to believe their twisted narrative.

    Suffer little children for you are the victims of a great wrong.

  163. stephentardrew

    Damn jumped articles supposed to be posted with “I Won’t Ride With You”.

  164. Tamara Ebert

    I have a problem with some of the headlines…yesterday statement was said Sydney has lost it’s innocence. I am sorry but Sydney lost it’s innocence along time ago. People forget how many murders happen in Sydney daily. How many robberies that happen daily and it’s not Muslims that do all of these, The headline that says the instant we changed forever – sorry what about the families of those killed in the Bali bombing. We changed then. Or the families of the boy who was killed in Kings Cross because someone came up behind him and King hit him in the head. Sydney hasn’t changed. It has just had another unfortunate situation happen because of a nutter who happen to be Muslim.

  165. mars08

    Seems to me that Man Haron Monis wasn’t totally committed to being a martyr for his stated cause. He took hostages (letting some escape through an unlocked (??) door) and waited for the cafe to be surrounded by heavily armed police. This tends to indicate that he wanted a dialogue.

    His actions, on entering the cafe, weren’t nearly as violent or ruthless as I would have expected… given the group he was supposed to support. I suspect he knew that he’d be a goner as soon as he killed his first hostage… so what was on his mind?

    Some more questions need to be answered.

  166. Wayne Turner

    NOT just a bigot problem,but of course an MSM problem,that love misinformation,exploit tragedies,and of course influence aka decide elections.

  167. Wayne Turner

    “Sydney hasn’t changed. It has just had another unfortunate situation happen because of a nutter who happen to be Muslim.” – Totally agree Tamara. The pathetic MSM and some pollies are carrying on like this,just because this nutter just happened to be muslim.If he wasn’t muslim,I bet they wouldn’t be carrying on like this.

    Sadly,I’ll never forget this tragedy either,from a suburb,ONLY a train ride from Sydney CBD: http://strathfieldheritage.org/buildings/strathfield-massacre/

  168. Roswell

    Lee, you enticed me to look at Bolt’s blog. I looked.

    I now hate you. :mrgreen:

  169. Lee

    I’ll survive. 🙂

  170. mars08

    Interesting that “collateral damage” done by government sanctioned forces… against brown people… can be so easily ignored or justified. The needless deaths by torture verified in the US Senate report (mostly still undisclosed) barely got a mention in our media. The killing of innocent people is not ALWAYS a tragedy or to be abhorred … apparently.

  171. Wayne Turner

    Totally agree mars08.

  172. pamelac65

    “I prayed and prayed that he would not be Muslim because I thought if he is Muslim then the Australian government will hate us more”
    young woman in detention who sat up all night watching the Sydney seige unfold.

  173. Annie B

    At the risk of throwing the cat in with the pigeons. ……….

    I read the Andrew Bolt garbage / diatribe from your post Bolt’s Beat Up

    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opinion/denial-of-islamic-fundamentalism-puts-us-in-danger/story-fnj45fvd-1227158594602.

    …… from Lee.

    ———-

    In his attempt to justify his specifically ultra-racist views …… he had to use many issues to argue against. ….. Which in effect, dropped him right in it !!

    Does Bolt the Dolt – truly believe that people – who read his crap – don’t SEE his antitheses …. that they skip over these, to read ONLY his self-perceived ‘words of wisdom’ ……… and hate-filled dialogue ???

    Well sorry buster bolt …….. it doesn’t happen.

    While the Dolt is spouting his articles, loaded with racist rubbish …….. he is also drawing attention to the more positive side of
    many arguments.

    ALTHOUGH I AM ALMOST CERTAIN – HE WOULD NOT INTEND TO DO SO. …. So much for his self-perceived credibility and journalistic attributes. !!!! Pffft.

    The ‘Dolt’s’ articles do not make me sick or hate anyone. ……… they in fact make me laugh – VERY derisively.

    An inept cretin at best. ……. he won’t be grabbing headlines much longer. …. I’ll betcha.

  174. silkworm

    Blot is being interviewed on One on One. It seems the ABC just can’t give enough air to extreme right-wing views. Shut down the ABC, I say!

  175. Michael Taylor

    No, it’s not alright for Muslims to be racist. It’s not OK for anyone to be racist.

    Where have we said that it’s OK for Muslims?

  176. Kaye Lee

    Over the past year in Buddhist-majority Burma, scores, if not hundreds, have been killed in communal clashes, with Muslims suffering the most casualties. Burmese monks were seen goading on Buddhist mobs, while some suspect the authorities of having stoked the violence — a charge the country’s new quasi-civilian government denies. In Sri Lanka, where a conservative, pro-Buddhist government reigns, Buddhist nationalist groups are operating with apparent impunity, looting Muslim and Christian establishments and calling for restrictions to be placed on the 9% of the country that is Muslim.

    Straying From the Middle Way: Extremist Buddhist Monks Target Religious Minorities

    Recently, the government of Myanmar proposed a law that seeks to impose a virtual ban on religious conversions (any case of religious conversion will need prior approval of the state). This proposed law is just one of the many recent laws that are being put into effect to target the country’s religious minorities: there are plans to outlaw interfaith marriages, and also to limit the birth-rate among non-Buddhist families residing in Myanmar.

    But that’s not all. The worst part is the fact that these discriminatory laws are being backed by radical Buddhist monks (collectively known as the Mabatha), and there have been petitions signed by as many as 1.3 million people calling for elimination of Muslims from the country.

    Back in mid-2012, communal violence took a turn for the worse when riots broke out in the western state of Rakhine, killing hundreds and displacing over 140,000 Rohingya Muslims. The government simply refused to step in, and even when it did, the authorities blatantly sided with the extremists and essentially rendered the Rohingya people helpless.

    This showed that anti-Rohingya activities in Myanmar were (and still are) nothing more than planned religious pogrom being conducted by the Buddhist terror outfits in assonance with the government of Myanmar. More details about the ill-effects of the riots can be found here.

    Apart from planned genocide, Buddhist extremist groups also indulge in anti-minority propaganda in the form of economic boycotts against Muslim businesses and false criticism of religions they do not like (which include, apart from other faiths, forms of Buddhism that do not agree with their extremist views). Of course, Islam is the centre of their hatred: when delegates of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation visited Myanmar in 2013, banners reading “Islam is a faith of animals with uncontrollable birth-rates” were flashed.

    http://www.internationalpolicydigest.org/2014/08/18/extremism-buddhism-myanmar/

  177. Harquebus

    There is only one race, the human race and please, no jokes about the Melbourne Cup.

  178. Kaye Lee

    Australia, the nation that stops many races.

    Sorry….couldn’t resist quoting Father Rod.

  179. Pamela

    At the risk of sounding trite in the face of such violent sectarianism, I am old enough to remember the sectarian divide in Australia between Catholic and Protestant. Family relationships ripped asunder by intermarriage, employment denied to Catholics by Protestants and vice versa, clubs denying membership, schools never communicating etc.
    Today all this is hardly remembered and long since gone. A small spark of hope in a world always spoiling for a fight.

  180. DanDark

    Non idealist said “Can everyone shut the f*ck up”
    Geeee someone fell out of bed the wrong way today, and took all their grumpy pills at once toooooo
    Have a lovely day too Non 🙂

  181. mars08

    @Kaye Lee… I think you’ll find that brown-on-brown violence isn’t something we worry about. Especially when it happens over there.

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