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Australia China relationship: the untold perspective

By Darrell Egan

We cannot go more than a few days without hearing a negative news story in regards to the deteriorating relationship between Australian and China.

The mainstream media (MSM) is reporting the complex issues of this bilateral relationship like a Batman movie where they have cast China as the Joker playing nefarious games bullying Australia.

The protagonist and antagonist cast members have been put in play for the scripted media narrative. However, like all movies, is the screenplay based on actual events?

We have seen a force multiplier of accusations regarding China and we have to dissect them.

60 Minutes Chinese Spy

Back in November 2019 60 Minutes Australia ran a story on an alleged spy named Wang Liqiang who sought asylum in Australia, stating he is a defector from a Chinese Spy Agency.

With scary music and selective images 60 Minutes played out this story with little evidence. One major thing about Wang Liqiang that 60 Minutes did not tell Australian viewers is that Wang Liqiang was up on fraud charges at Fujian court in China in 2016, when he was 23 years of age. Here is video footage of his fraud charges trial. Of all cities in China, Fujian is known to have con artists and is why it is on a lower ranking city in China for international students when getting a Student Visa.

Even former Australian foreign minister Julie Bishop raised doubts stating if he was such a high-ranking level Chinese spy the normal course in defecting is not to go public as obviously it would jeopardise sensitive information he was disclosing. High-level spy defections are done discretely with another country’s intelligence agencies. Wang also claimed at the young age of 26 he was carrying out high-level secret missions in Hong Kong. Wang Liqiang also states he was involved in a high-level extradition in 2015 at the age of 22.

Yet the Australian Strategic Policy Institute backed his claims and Liberal MP Andrew Hastie went on this 60 Minutes program. Andrew Hastie, along with Labor Senator Kimberley Kitching are representatives on the Global think tank Anti-China Inter Parliamentary Alliance on China. US Trump politician right-wing hawk Marco Rubio sits on this think tank with them. The main source of anti-China claims to this think tank is Adrian Zenz, who is a Senior Fellow at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation. This Foundation counts Nazi soldier deaths in war by Russia in their calculations in victims of communism.

Hong Kong Protest claims

Federal Foreign Minister Marise Payne has taken a stance in support of Hong Kong protesters, stating they should be able to have political expression in Hong Kong. Marise Payne has never spoken about the violent expression by Hong Kong protesters in beating up elderly people, women and ordinary citizens in Hong Kong including burning a man alive and killing a street cleaner with a brick. Other violence included petrol bombing police officers, stabbing a police officer in the neck and attacking officers with metal weapons. Is this the political expression she would like to see in Australia?

For years and now Hong Kong people have the freedom to express their political views in peaceful protests. What set off the violent protests was a proposed extradition law by the Hong Kong Government in February 2019. The proposed Bill was put forward after a young man escaped to Hong Kong after murdering his girlfriend, with the parents of the young girl seeking justice. The proposed Bill with amendments only listed 37 crimes which none of have anything to do with supressing political expression’s freedoms, along with political freedom protections in the Bill presided over Hong Kong’s autonomy legal system as stated by ex-Pan Democrat from the Civic Party, Ronny Tong Ka-Wa.

From this what proceeded was a near coup of five demands including exoneration from prosecution of Hong Kong protesters who undertook violent brutal acts. Included in these protests was blatant support from the US and Australia. Trump Whitehouse Adviser Steve Bannon went online with corrupt Chinese businessman Miles Guo offering US government support to Baggio Leung who heads the Hong Kong national Front Protest Group, on June 28 2019. In the video below Mile Guo requested Baggio Leung to up the ante of assertive protest.

 

 

 

On July 22 2019 (a few weeks later) Baggio Leung’s fellow National front Leader was caught with a huge cache of explosives. Throughout the protests explosive devices were discovered, which were used by Hong Kong protesters.

The Hong Kong leadership have never condemned the violence they undertook as stated by Hong Kong protest Leadership Spokesperson Joey Siu on DW news Conflict Zone program.

 

 

In comparison, regarding Hong Kong police restraint during the Hong Kong riots where they were attacked in by large groups of protesters with petrol bombs and metal weapons throughout 2019 and into 2020, there has been not one death the hands of Hong Kong police. These zero numbers include general Hong Kong policing law enforcement duties.

Yet in the same period from 2019 up until now in 2020 we are heading up to nearly 2000 deaths at the hands of US police, with 1004 shooting deaths in 2019 and 984 so far in 2020.

An Australian Federal Liberal MP – Tim Wilson – actually went to march with Hong Kong protesters, meeting with Hong Kong protest leaders Joshua Wong who at the time was calling for Donald Trump to get involved in supporting the Hong Kong protester’s insurrection in which we see Steve Bannon filling this role of support, including Republican politician Marco Rubio who sits on the Anti-China Inter Parliamentary Alliance on China.

 

 

Now imagine if a Chinese politician came to Australia to march alongside Indigenous protesters who were demanding autonomy rights in their own country which they do not have, that the ex-British Opium war invaded territory of Hong Kong has and will still continue to have. On top of this the Indigenous protesters were carrying Chinese government flags, brutalising innocent people, hijacked parliament, attacked police with petrol bombs along with metal weapons and occupied our airport, Australia would introduce the most draconian of national security laws.

With such an overt situation of political interference Hong Kong has introduced national security laws which have been reported to be not as stringent as Australia’s national security laws in relation to question people in regards to politically motivate violence.

Hong Kong barrister Lawrence Ma – who is the Chairman of the Hong Kong legal Exchange Foundation – stated that the new Hong Kong national security law is in line with the International Covenant of Civil and Political Rights, along with the International Covenant on Economic, Social and cultural rights applied to Hong Kong. Freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of assembly and protest procession will remain in line with the Hong Kong basic law.

Like all other countries the new Hong Kong national security law is to prevent individuals or groups colluding with a foreign country or external forces endangering national security.

Yet Federal Foreign Minister Marise Payne has opposed this, while raising concerns. Is Marise Payne concerned that her ex-CIA now US Secretary of State mate Mike Pompeo cannot interfere with the politics of Hong Kong? It must be remembered Mike Pompeo pushed the narrative of a so called Five Eyes document stating that the coronavirus came out of a Chinese laboratory. This assertion was debunked and no dossier was found to exist.

 

 

Xinjiang Uighur Issue

In regards to Xinjiang and the Uighur population there is one issue that the Australian federal government-funded Australian Strategic Policy Institute has got involved in, being the source of media reports in Australia and influence on government policy on the issue with China.

Turkic Uighur people migrated to Xinjiang during the rise of the Byzantine era after 330 AD. Prior to this the region had Chinese-administered outposts governing the Silk Road trade routes with the Tocharian people, who were part-descendants of the Scythian Celtic people who would migrate from the Baltic regions of Europe trading with what we would refer to as Chinese Asian people in Xinjiang. We can see these Scythian Celts in the Tarim basin mummies in Xinjiang. These Anglo-looking mummies have Celtic Scythian face woad-style tattoos, braided hair and some have tartan clothing. Their DNA has been shown to be non-Turkic and Scythian Celtic in origin on the male side, and Chinese Asian DNA on the female side.

Yet Uighur people try and claim they are Turkic Uighur in origin as part of their Separatist initiative. Xinjiang has semi-autonomy, yet there are forces such as the NATO listed Turkistan Islamic Party (TIP), also known as the East Turkistan Islamic Movement (ETIM) terrorist group there undertaking bombings and violent attacks on Han Chinese and Uighur people who they deem non-believers. Whilst most Uighurs do not share the ideology of this extremist group does not deter their push to establish their own Caliphate type East Turkistan state in Xinjiang.

The TIP/ETIM have transported Uighur terrorists to Afghanistan to fight with Al Qaeda and with help from a Turkish Government sanction organisation called the Eastern Turkistan Education and Solidarity Association, and the Education and Social Cooperation of East Turkistan established on the 29/3/2006, Turkish Interior Ministry Licenced number 00,08,34,4VLK4,05.B090-128-34. These groups including the Turkish Grey Wolves fighters set up by Turkey on the pretext of Uighurs visiting family would help support and transport these TIP fighters into Syria to fight with ISIS setting up Child Fighter training camps there. Mehmet Ali Agca who attempted to assassinate Pope John Paull the second in 1981 was a member of the Grey Wolves. This Neo fascist Turkish terrorist group has been involved in attacks around the world, including Bangkok.

Donald Trump has opened up closer cooperation with the right-wing fascist leaning leader of Turkey Recep Tayyip Erdogan and to curry favour Mike Pompeo has delisted ETIM as a terrorist group.

 

 

Unlike the US with drone strikes, wars, rendition torture and pictures of torture like in Guantanamo Bay, China is taking a high intelligence and deradicalization program approach to the problem. Yet this does not stop the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) to make Pompeo-style false accusations regarding what is happening in Xinjiang with claims of so-called concentration camps. Adrian Zenz – who I mentioned earlier – as the source for the Inter Parliamentary Alliance on China think tank that Liberal MP Andrew Hastie and Labor Senator Kimberley Kitching sit on as well as being a source for ASPI, came up with fictitious concentration camps after his team interviewed eight Uighurs who had relatives in custody for charges (that Adrian Zenz did not specify) and extrapolated this to so-called concentrations camps with no Guantanamo Bay photo or video evidence. This was reported by Max Blumenthal of “The Grayzone News”. There is no photo video or hard documented evidence of Uighur abuse. However, Nathan Ruser, who is an analyst at the Australian Strategic policy Institute took satellite photos of walled buildings accusing them of being concentration camps. Many of these photos are showing walled boarding schools with soccer pitches and basketball courts on them in which I am familiar with in teaching in China as student welfare is important with students who board at these schools, not going AWOL, creating a duty of care issue for the schools. Many industrial parks in China are walled for security. How does this account for evidence? One example shows ASPI alleging a Detention camp when in fact it is the Kargilik No 6 boarding High School.

 

 

Another claim by ASPI is that China is selling Uighur slave labour by using an advertisement of a Chinese government funded Vocational Education Employment initiative which is part of a deradicalization program offering direction and employment to Uighur people to avoid falling into the hands of extremist groups such as the TIP/ETIM. The posting on the ASPI Website includes a link to a Chinese government website which states the legal rights of Uighurs in regards to equal pay, equal cultural rights and other employment benefits. Daniel Dumbrill ASPI investigates:

 

 

However, Federal Foreign Minister Marise Payne – without critically looking at all the claims from her ASPI and Liberal MP Andrew Hastie Inter Parliamentary Alliance on China member advisers – blindly and publicly condemns China on treatment of Uighurs with no evidence and fabricated so-called evidence.


Australia joins global condemnation of China over Xinjiang amid deteriorating ties | Australia news | The Guardian

Australia has stared down a potential backlash from China by joining with nearly 40 countries to voice grave concerns about “gross human rights violations” in the Xinjiang region and call for …

 

 

Source of claims against China on Xinjiang Uighur claims

The main sourcing of these claims against China to the Australian media and to our current government in forming their policy on China is through the Australian Strategic Policy Institute and the Inter Parliamentary Alliance, Adrian Zenz.

Adrian Zenz, as mentioned, is from the Victims of Communism Foundation and a right-wing evangelist who wrote a book “Worthy to Receive” where he calls for “Spiritual Spanking” of children, he asserts LGBTI gender equality issues as a satanic campaign and speaks against anti-racist hate-crime legislation tolerance, calling it the leopard like powers of the Anti-Christ which he has not denied. Adrian Zenz makes submissions to the UN and US government foreign Policy on China. Adrian Zenz posted on Twitter without fact checking as supposed evidence the reporting of a girl finding a note in a North Face shoe she had received as a present. The note supposedly was from a Uighur requesting help as they were supposedly in a forced-labour jail. Others in the Uighur Anti-china groups posted this claim. After simple fact checking it was found that the North Face shoe was manufactured in Vietnam and North Face have no manufacturing in Xinjiang.

Another source who is funded by the CIA is the National Endowment For Democracy organization in the US, which has been involved in overthrowing elected governments that do not suit US policy. Omer Kanat, who is the Chairman of the World Uighur Foundation who works with Adrian Zenz. would be thought of as having closely sourced evidence on any Uighur abuses. When it comes to source of figures and information he states this as “Western Media Estimates.”

 

 

The other source in the US working with Adrian Zenz is Uighur Rushan Abbas, who has not lived in Xinjiang since the 1980s. In an interview with Daniel Dumbrill, Rushan Abbas makes a claim that the 1997 Ghujla Uighur Bombing terrorist attack was a peaceful protest when video evidence tells otherwise.

 

 

In the interview it was revealed Rushan Abbas was an interpreter for Uighurs terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay and during the pictured evidence, torture of terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay including reports from Uighur detainees at the time Rushan did nothing to bring this to the attention of US authorities. Omar Kanat, who I mentioned earlier, repatriated released Uighur Guantanamo Bay detainees in which he seemed to have not made a stand on the torture reports.

Danel Dumbrill Interview with Rushan Abbas:

 

 

Daniel Dumbrill Response to Rushan Abbas interview:

 

 

Getting back to the Australian Strategic Policy Institute we find that it is funded by US Weapons companies which have had accusations of using prison labour in the US which was reported by Marcus Rubenstein in a Michael West Media report.

Australia China Relationship

What I am reporting is not assessed at all in Australia’s stance on the issues I describe, and instead a solely US-sourced anti-China propaganda model.

On top of this Scott Morrison has committed Australian naval vessels to support the US in encircling China in the South China Sea, which has been part of China’s sea trading routes as far back as the 12th century (outlined in the Chu Fan Chi Chronicles authored by Chau Ju Kua who was a 12th century Song Dynasty historian, well before Australia and America was colonised by Europeans).

China is already encircled by US military bases in South Asia and the Pacific.

In June this year the Sydney Morning Herald published that over 400 Australian Chinese people had endured COVID related racist attacks. In the same month Scott Morrison rejected Chinese Government concerns that such racist attacks would have on venerable Chinese students.

Yet in 2017 when the Indian government raised concerns regarding racism on Indian students in Australia trade Minister Simon Birmingham went running to India and addressed the issue.

India no longer fears racial attacks on its students in Australia – ABC News

India’s Government says racially motivated attacks on Indian students in Australia are no longer an issue, days ahead of Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull’s visit to New Delhi and Mumbai.

 

In May 2020 China agreed to an independent World Health Organisation inquiry into COVID-19 that would investigate issues regarding the virus and responses worldwide. This is a thorough investigation that covers all bases and as we found out from the Spanish Flu epidemic, it did not originate in Spain. With this I am not suggesting COVID-19 did not originate in China as I have no virology report evidence on this. However, a lot more is be gained from a worldwide investigation and not just into the abuse but how we can better prepare in the future as we have seen the US was caught off-guard.

However, Scott Morrison nagged publicly for a COVID-19 inquiry on the source of the pandemic, focusing on China to be investigated in a COVID-19 inquiry and out of step with a more thorough worldwide inquiry, not only to the origin but broader areas of investigation. In this call Scott Morrison is repeating a US China-centric blame investigation, rather than a holistic investigation.

With the current relationship hitting Australian wine exports Scott Morrison stubbornly sticks to his belief he has nothing to answer for in regards to the Australia China relationship with he and his ministers presiding over a government that goes from one mouthing media conference to another, recklessly embracing a flawed foreign policy approach to China.

Australian needs to have a more intelligent independent foreign policy approach assessing all issues independently without accepting US-sourced allegations on face value. There may be issues that Australia need to speak up to China about as no country is perfect. However, this has to be done based on evidence.

As a matter of conflict of interest our federal government should get rid of weapons company-funded Strategic Policy Institutions and stop funding these institutions with Australian taxpayers’ money.

In its place an independent Strategic Policy Committee must be formed. There is no place in Australia for racism, denying diplomacy, not twisting such concerns in regards to effects or racism on venerable international students as a false accusation of bullying that students ravelling to study in Australia are being used as some sort of trade weapon.

What we have now is a spectre of McCarthyism Red Scare racism phobia where anyone giving the sourced perspective is accused of being some sport of Chinese Government propaganda agent and not only is what I put forward not reported in the Australian MSM, but aggressively derided.

Currently, Australia is subservient to US self-serving strategic interests in relation to China, not an independent strategy where Australia can independently pursue a mutually beneficial foreign policy and trade strategy with China that does not have a split personality approach of recklessly attacking China for US interest on one hand, and selling off assets on the other hand in the case of the port of Darwin.

This is not to say we burn our bridges with our US relationship, but redefine the relationship where Australian independence in foreign policy engagement with China is respected.

With the new China lead ASEAN Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) trade agreement which Australian has recently signed on to and will be fully ratified and running in 2022 which offers economic benefits to Australia… now is the time to reflect and reset our relationship with China.

Darrell Egan is the Founder of the first AFL Chinese competition team in China created in 2011 sparking the AFL sport and trade cultural cooperation with China in 2014. He has lived in Southern China for four years and is a member of the Australia China friendship Society. Darrell is an out of the closet tragic Blues supporter and not a Red from under the Bed.

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76 comments

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  1. Darrell Egan

    The issue in the railway station Kyle refers to in the Subway you need to see whole footage. After Hong Kong proteters smashed up the Hong Kong Subway and attacked passengers they changed clothes and discarded their metal weapons to put on a Victim act when police came to arrest them. You see poLice not hitting them but hitting the train handles to make them stay where they are. Here is video evidence https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsWsqmTUOrY&feature=youtu.be

    Also. I just let you know I am a recent member of the Australia China friendship Society and got involved in regards to sport culture. If you are going to make accusations as if there is some nefarious nature provide your evidence rather jump at shadows. We need clear independent foreign Policy in Australia based on real evidence from varied sources. I think the Anti China McCarthyism brigade have had a good run presenting their obsessive case. I would like to read Clive Hamilton’s book. However Hong Kong is part of china and a country cannot invade itself. Hong kong is an ex British Opium war invaded territory of China. Yet Hong Kong has more autonomy with their own money, legal system, police force, land rights than Indigenous people do in Australia. There are greens and other so called progressive who get caught up supporting Colonial style racist based Anti China obsession tally ignoring what I reported in this article.

  2. Darrell Egan

    This is another video showing misleading behaviour by Hong Kong protesters where they attack a taxi driver in his taxi pulling him off his taxi’s accelerator making the taxi lose control then they beat him. They then made false claims to media that the elderly taxi driver they beat purposely rammed them. here is the evidence of what really happened >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ_9GotVXO8

  3. longzijun

    There is a lot of inaccurate information about Hong Kong in that reply (I live here and went to many of the protests).

    The Hong Kong Police, on a few instances, did stop wearing ID numbers and switched to operation specific IDs. This is because the police were getting doxxed and, as a result, their children were getting bullied at school. In a recent court judgement, the Court of First Instance declared that this lack of ID numbers was a violation of rights (as it makes it very difficult to file complaints against individual officers). The police are appealing, but in the meantime they have dropped the practice of not displaying ID numbers. I expect there will be a compromise solution as the doxxing problem has become quite serious.

    The police entered the train station that time because protesters were fighting with passengers who were arguing with them (they didn’t go in for no reason). The police did appear to use excessive force on protesters in that incident.

    What you probably didn’t see in the British press were all the videos of protesters beating up people who (a) argued with them. (b) got in their way (c) photographed them or (d) were believed to be from the mainland. There where several cases of women being beaten by groups of male protesters. You can see the videos on this site: https://www.truth-hk.com/violences/categories/violence

    The police were definitely too passive during the Tsuen Wan incident, but the protesters, perhaps feeling they were safe inside the station concourse, did egg on the white-shirted men, taunting them, spraying them with a fire hose and calling on them to come in and fight. Local journalist Nury Vittachi has done minute by minute breakdowns of this incident and the train station incident:
    Prince Edward Station: https://www.mrjam.org/2020/08/the-prince-edward-mtr-murders-what-really-happened.html
    Yuen Long Incident: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIjAnIRYcFc

    I have a long long article on the Hong Kong protests, but if unless you have an open mind, it may not be your cup of tea: https://longzijun.wordpress.com/words/hong-kong-protests/

  4. d dan

    The list of provocations and unfriendly actions by Australia is long – and the article only touches some of them. For examples:

    Australia is among the first to ban Huawei, and doing so much more thoroughly than most other Western countries.
    Australia passes a law to veto its States to join the Belt and Silk Road project.
    Australia passes a law against foreign influence on politicians – mainly targeting China, but ignore larger influence by US and others.
    Australia is granting immigrant visas to Hong Kong rioters.
    Australia joined US in many “Freedom” exercises in South China Sea.
    Australia voices support for India in its border dispute with China.
    Australia just signed an agreement with Japan regarding military cooperation – apparently as part of plan aiming to contain China.
    A lot more…

  5. Terence Mills

    The anti Chinese rhetoric in recent times makes writing an article such as this a challenge as there is so much misinformation to overcome.

    For instance, friends who live and work in Hong Kong (ethnic Chinese) have labelled the so called democracy demonstrations as little more than violent street riots, disrupting the commercial district and damaging infrastructure ; the tightening of security has been welcomed by many.

    I’ve mentioned before the insult levelled at Chinese Australians by Senator Abetz during Senate Estimates when he demanded that three Australian citizens with Chinese ancestry publicly and unconditionally condemn “the Chinese Communist party dictatorship”. He has since refused to apologise and he has not been disciplined by Morrison. This sort of behaviour has not gone unnoticed in Beijing.

    Our handling of the bilateral relationship has been abysmal and it was mentioned yesterday on ABC Insiders that Foreign Minister Marise Payne is likely to be moved sideways, not so much for anything she has done to improve the relationship with China but for what she hasn’t done [it has been suggested that she will become our Ambassador to the US with Arthur Sinodinos returning due to health considerations].

    It is now time for Morrison to extend the hand of friendship and mutual respect and to call for a resumption of ministerial and prime ministerial contacts in the new year.

    We need to adapt quickly to a new US administration and not be locked down by Trumpian ideology.

  6. jim

    So China has lifted millions out of poverty , whilst the USA and it’s allies are right now in near a hundred wars and regime change operations (aka looting) to bring about their very long pushed for One World Order or New World Order and Covid-19 is a big part of this plan imho.
    And KK above it’s Global Research.com but you couldn’t give them any free advertising could you your so clever eh.
    A quote; Churchill 1920 ; “This movement among the Zionist Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States)… this Worldwide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilizationand for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible inequality, has been steadily growing. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the 19th century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.”
    Writing on ‘Zionism versus Bolshevism’ in the Illustrated Sunday Herald, February 1920 Churchill.
    Quote;
    “We will make the West so corrupt – it STINKS!” Willi Munzenberg (Zionist jew) 1920s.

    Zionist wars plunge the world into hell hole for all who are not useful for them like in the Ukraine in the 1930s in 1932 they starved 7 million to death in one year food went only one way ie. out of the country of Ukraine. under Stalin a Zionist.

    Quote, from 1870s “I fear the Jewish bankers with their craftiness and tortuous tricks will entirely control the exuberant riches of America. And use it to systematically corrupt modern civilization. The Jewish bankers will not hesitate to plunge the whole of Christendom into wars and chaos that the earth should become their inheritance.” – Otto von Bismark ..

    I wonder why we fire bombed 160 German cities day and night in WW2. Or why we sent thousands of fleeing Russian civilians back to Stalins USSR against their will after WW2.

    Darrell Egan, you are spot on and very very brave as the Zionist federation which operates under the radar in nearly EVERY country including Australia will be after your blood Thanks for your bravery.

  7. Roswell

    Karen Kyle, to suggest that this article has been plagiarised by the author is a disgraceful insult. I hope you have evidence to support this baseless claim. If not, it would be proper to offer an apology.

  8. Ban Chen

    ‘China is taking a high intelligence and deradicalization program approach to the problem’ of a handful of Uighur terrorists by locking up Muslims in the province. Glad NZ hasn’t reciprocated in that way after the Christchurch terror event. Meanwhile, in Tibet . . .

  9. World.Peace

    This is the first thourough breakdown with sourced facts regarding the many issues affecting the Australia China relationship and non stop Anti China news stories which present scary music and selected pictures, vainly trying to paint a nefarious light on China, with no actual evidence for US geoplotical hegemonic self interest. Australia has given so much to the US sacrificing their young soldiers sanity in the Korean, Malaya, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan wars. There has to be a new way of dealing with world issues than the US/Britain and Australia as a lapdog war mongering invasions involving interferences of other countries must be found. Australia needs to have an intelligent and balanced independent foreign policy that serves the interests of their people with a strong and equitable economy.

  10. Roswell

    I don’t believe any of you have ethnic Chinese friends in Hong Kong who said….da…da…da.

    I’ll take it up a level: I don’t believe anything you say. I’d be surprised if anyone does.

  11. Roswell

    Ban Chen, I agree with that. Free Tibet!

  12. Terence Mills

    As a contributor to this site I want to disassociate myself with the comments made by ‘jim’ : this is certainly no a view I share.

    As regards Karen Kyle, what can you say to somebody who calls you a liar with no evidence ?

  13. Roswell

    Terrence, that’s KK’s modus operandi.

  14. World.Peace

    Karen. Picking the eyes out of one comment does not take away the evidenced facts in the article. The fact is so called progressive left individuals and some Greens have had their heart strings duped by the Trump style Right Wing Neo Cons. It is a fact that Nathan Law leader of Hong Kong protest movement is working with German Right wing Homophobic evangelist Adrian Zenz who sources ASPI with claims that have no evidence. Then their is the proven Homophobic and racist Group Falun Gong that believe LGBTI people should be eradicated along with their belief that black people and mixed race people have been stained by the gods and are an abomination. Falun Gong are Trump campaigners in the US believing he is a messiah to take on China. This was partially brought out in an ABC news story> https://tvblackbox.com.au/page/2020/07/15/the-teachings-of-the-falun-gong-movement-are-investigated-on-foreign-correspondent/ These are the groups that make doctored reports with no evidence to the US Government foreign Policy Think Tanks. It is common knowledge that US military industrial companies fund ASPI who regurgitate Adrian Zenz’s rubbish. Actually it is self agenda Think Tanks making these claims with no evidence. However if you read the above news article you will see they have been clearly debunked. You have already been debunked about the Hong Kong MTR incident. As for China moving forward they have handed back Scott Morrison’s coal and moving forward with clean energy which your Green mates do not acknowledge. It is one thing just to talk progressive. China is endeavouring to be progressive. No country is perfect but claims you make are obsessively divisive and unbalanced. See links .>>> https://www.carbonbrief.org/china-leading-worlds-clean-energy-investment-says-report https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-14/china-s-40-year-billion-tree-project-is-a-lesson-for-the-world

  15. World.Peace

    Anti China Liberal Right Winger Eric Abetz caught out on racism. Eric Abetz uncle Otto was a Nazi War criminal. Eric Abetz brother and Liberal politician says that Otto did some positive things. I wonder what Zig Heil conversation happens around the Abetz family. Please watch >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knv0-IrIG3Y

  16. World.Peace

    Karen. You keep obsessively using the word CCP in a demonising attempt. China bans destructive Scientology cults which do great harm to people’s psychology. You just make assumption ASPI has cause when they have no evidence like we do in the actual photograph evidence from Guantanamo bay and torture rendition flights. How many wars are you going to be suckered into from what we later find out about to be lies. If you find real evidence like we have of the US on China then call for both countries to incur the same world sanctions if you are consistent. No evidence. Falun Gong & their media Epoch times have been shown to put up false AI generated pictures in online news. US has never had democracy whether Democrat or Republican just a corporate funded duopoly of deception. Whilst china does not have what you are forcing them to have in a US style democracy. Chinese people vote on their provincial Legislative members who affect their lives and has changed more in the past 20 years than the US have done in the past 60 years. If as you say China had so called US style democracy amongst 1.4 billion people they would have a country ridden with corporate funded political corrupt factions fighting in a feudal system destroying the lives of Chinese people. It is good to be an Anglo Centric style arm chair critic. If you like you go govern 1.4 billion people staving off mass poverty. Morrison cannot govern only 24 million people effectively. Whilst the US with all advantage cannot govern the needs of just over 300 million people with their wealth with a shocking social system, divisive population not satisfied with the leaders . You tell me why most Chinese students who study overseas these days go back to live in China.

  17. World.Peace

    Yes. here is an article exposing false forced Uighur labor claim by ASPI. Making claims with no evidence> https://twitter.com/NEH_Australasia/status/1317342158047752193 Look at the news story links with false claims about We chat payment by Daniel Dumbrill video and Nathan Ruser from ASPI passing off Secondary boarding schools as some kind of detention camps with no evidence at all. Then there is Adrian Zenz false Uighur shoe note claim. Also Daniel Dumbrill finding holes in paid Uighur testimony stories. Show me your real evidence that China is not undertaking more than a ETIM deradicalization program.

  18. World.Peace

    The only person putting forward divisive disharmony and causing trouble is you with you ongoing obsessiveness. I keep asking for your evidence and you provide nothing but dogma propaganda rant. Show the evidence figures for your claims of conviction rates. I suppose what you do not know in China they have under lawyers law lawyer client privilege. I suppose you agree with Hong Kong proteters who brutalised innocent people calling for immunity after their brutal crimes. I would like to see you police 1.4 billion people. You would have a revolving door of drug dealers, rapists and murders running around China. I suppose you like the fact that murders, rapists and drug dealing criminals get a slap on the wrist. Maybe that is why you and your Hong Kong protesting mates did not like the extradition law which has only 37 listed crimes such as murder, drug dealing and rape with political freedom protections under Hong Kong’s autonomy legal system. Again you give nothing other than just twisted banter. You are a proven liar in regards to the MTR issue. Please keep going you just discrediting yourself even more.

  19. Michael Taylor

    To those unfortunate souls trying to debate Karen Kyle, I have some words of advice: give up. You will not win.

    No matter what your credentials… she will know more than you.

    You could be a botanist, but she will know more about botany than you. You could be an archaeologist, but she will know more about archaeology than you. You could be a carpenter, but she will know more about carpentry than you. You could be an astronomer, but she will know more about astronomy than you. You could be a surgeon, but she will know more about surgery than you. You could even have a PhD on the mating habits of the Patagonian Tooth Fish, but she will know more about their mating habits than you. You could have spent all your life in a particular town/village/city anywhere in the world, but she will know more about that place than you.

    PS: replace “she will know more” with “she thinks she knows more.”

  20. Michael Taylor

    PPS: find a wall, mark a cross on it, and write the words “bang head here”.

    That is the only outcome of debates with Karen Kyle.

  21. World.Peace

    Yes Michael. She is like ranting Karen from Bunnings.

  22. Michael Taylor

    And she’ll know more about Bunnings than you. 😜

  23. DrakeN

    @ Karen Kyle: “…and make up my own mind.”

    …which is so small that it wouldn’t take long at all.

  24. Florence Howarth

    I don’t like many things that they say happen in China. I do know in my lifetime millions have been lifted out for poverty. Can’t recall when the last what was a regular occurrence famine was. They have the fastest-growing middle class at this time.

    There are many things I don’t like in the country. Don’t like the rising poverty. No time for the abuse of human rights. Hate seeing our constitution trashed.

    There are many who should face the Hague for the treatment of refugees.

    Have big problems with the treatment of the aged, neglect leading to death.

    Yes, I hate lying politicians most of all.

    I won’t even try to list what is wrong with the great USA, land of the free.

    I don’t believe we as Australians have the right to lecture anyone. I don’t hear the Chinese people screaming out for us to do so. Live & let live.

  25. Michael Taylor

    Karen, it’s good that you read a lot. Very admirable. I had to do a lot of it for both my degrees and my diploma. I read each night until my eyes were ready to drop out. And now I’m doing it all again, researching for my book on Australian colonial history in the lead up to federation. Specifically, the treatment of Aborigines in that period.

    But one thing I always found: what I read in one book didn’t make me an expert, as there was always another book that said something different.

    The research for my honours degree on history was quite interesting. The events on a particular day, say, in 1770, were etched in cement. They couldn’t be changed. There was no argument. What was more interesting was asking what was in the minds of those historical figures. What made them do what they did? What were the other events in history that had significance on what happened in 1770?

  26. DrakeN

    @ Karen Kyle: “..it took most of a lifetime.”

    A short life, or slow on the uptake?

  27. Michael Taylor

    A Native American once joked; “We would rather face a charging cavalry than one anthropologist” (or words to that effect).

  28. wam

    A thought provoking read:
    Spreading my thoughts, on aust/china from robb’s disastrous FTA with our tariffs out with the rabbott in 2015 but some china tariffs kept till 2024? Why did china sign so quickly and give robb a $750k part time job?
    Re-inforces my prejudiced suspicion of a nasty politician, patten, changing hong kong in 5 years to gammon democracy after 94 years of no democracy just to thwart china.
    The conservative pollie was promoted to baron and now lord patten chancellor of oxford.

  29. Florence Howarth

    Michael, it is great that you are getting lessons on how to study. I don’t know how you managed to get through your degrees. I suspect when studying Aborigines, most of the history written by white Australians was more like a fairy tale than fact. Winners write the history. There is always another story.

  30. World.Peace

    Karen from Bunnings. “Wam.” When Britain were a colony they never introduced any democracy at all. Hong Kong people Vote in their Legislative assembly and have active vertical democracy. Britain ran only a colonial rule and were going to introduce the “Young Plan” which would have given locals some control over basic services but they backed out as usual. Hong kong is one of the most free economies in the world. Now Britain and US (The Capitalist British US Colonialists: CBUSC) are trying to use so called democracy support to get Hong Kong back as their colonial client state. CBUSC as usual want to fund and rig elections like in south America so they can have tHONg kong as a client state like they do with South american countries. Remember it was Deng Xiaoping who gave two systems one country autonomy to Hong Kong even though it was land stolen by Britain. Rather han accuse you of following your CBUSC masters with their propaganda I use facts.

  31. Ban Chen

    World.Peace, what do you say of Chinese officials rewriting of the Bible to conform to state propaganda?
    The latest version of one Gospel story casts Jesus as murderer rather than a model of compassion and forgiveness.
    This is how the changed bible narrative goes:
    “The crowd wanted to stone the woman to death as per their law. But Jesus said, ‘Let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone.’ Hearing this, they slipped away one by one. When the crowd disappeared, Jesus stoned the sinner to death, saying, ‘I too am a sinner. But if the law could only be executed by men without blemish, the law would be dead.’”
    And here I was thinking Google had a monopoly on burning digital books and hiding facts.

  32. guest

    “There is always another story.”

    Yes, there is. Sometimes it is a story we read in our favorite newspaper. Or heard it on the radio. Or at the last BBQ we attended. Or something we vaguely remember having read years ago. And it might be guided by the nature of our politics.

    It has always amused me that the West has in recent decades accused China of dangerous attitudes towards the West – “The Yellow Peril”. Yet we scarcely pay attention to how the British gained footholds in China, in Hong Kong and Shanghai. One of the techniques was the use of opium.

    Now we accuse China of being the biggest greenhouse gas emitter in the world. But then some of us refuse to admit that China achieves that distinction by burning our coal, the export of which is one of our biggest money earners. Of course, we do not include those figures in our emission numbers.

    Newcastle is a huge export port for coal, ranking high in the world for tonnage. Near the shipping terminals at Stockton Beach, more than half a million cubic metres of sand have disappeared, erode by the sea. Something about climate change?

    Near Wellington, not far from the Upper Hunter Valley, there are many acres of solar panels and rows of wind turbines al the top of the hills. The Coalition, who not long ago were deriding wind turbines as “ugly” and destructive and intermittent, seem now to be claiming them as their own as if they had invented them.

    Statistics are often claimed as argument breakers. So, if we consider the emission figures of China and the US measured from the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, China has emitted half the emissions of the US.

    PS, just a picky point. So many posters misuse the word [it’s] so that it appears in this sentence thus: The dog chased it’s tail.
    Why is that?

  33. DrakeN

    @ Karen Kyle: “No mate you don’t use facts.”

    Would you recognise them if he/she/it did?

    Your position of: “My mind is made up, please don’t confuse me with facts” is plain for all here to see.

  34. Terence Mills

    You might be on to something about the stoning, Brian Chen, but if you do a little research you will probably find that the bit about :

    When the crowd disappeared, Jesus stoned the sinner to death, saying, ‘I too am a sinner. But if the law could only be executed by men without blemish, the law would be dead.’”

    Actually came from the Life of Brian !

  35. Matters Not

    KK, the authorities have stopped the sale of the Bible on-line which was a loop-hole because lots of Bibles are printed in China. Book-burning and/or book-banning are features of all emerging societies. In Queensland, for example, they even banned The Little Red School Book (early 1970s) which meant I just had to read it. A bit like China. If it’s banned, the price rises but the black market can deliver virtually anything.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Red_Schoolbook

    China is so big it’s virtually ungovernable. The current (life-long) President knows that (deep down) having served in four provinces during his regional political career but he’s determined to give it a good shot.

    China’s a bit like Russia – you’ll never, never know until you go. And even then … Add Belarus etc. So many churches, so many Christians in Russia – why even Putin attends on the odd occasion.

    As for ‘facts’ and ‘arguments’, it’s a bit like saying a pile of bricks is a ‘building’. Facts are but starting points (and there’s almost an infinite number) – necessary but not sufficient.

  36. Ban Chen

    Terrence, sounds about right, must look for that next time I watch the movie.
    Karen, 50 years ago the CCP began to reform their language in line with Orwell’s 1984 Newspeak. This happened: The old character for “love” had the “heart” removed and the character meaning “village” had two-thirds of its volume exacted—the part meaning “person.” So in Simplified Chinese, love has no heart, and village has no people. Fascists and totalitarians misfits would see this as progress.
    Guest, re your PS question, as they say in Tibet: its a mystery.

  37. Matters Not

    Re the Languages of China

    China has eight major dialect groups: Putonghua (Mandarin), Yue (Cantonese), Wu (Shanghainese), Minbei (Fuzhou), Minnan (Taiwanese), Xiang, Gan and Hakka and many sub-dialects. The language spoken in Beijing is often referred to as Mandarin or Putonghua.

    The most common language in China is Standard Chinese. It is a language rooted in central Mandarin, however, the total amount of languages spoken in China is 302, according to the last Ethnologue survey.

    Yes! It’s a big country and virtually ungovernable. Lots of what we might call corruption. But there’s also lots of corruption in Australia. Depends on definition.

  38. World.Peace

    Karen. Freedom of a Scientology racist and Homophobic cult like Falun Gong is something you support. “Yes”. China has more mosques outside Mecca. I have caught you out lying again. China does not ban religion. They ban cults like Scientology that psychologically damage people. Here is a local who goes to Catholic and Christian churches in China. Like in Australia Religions have to register as an association. Why do you keep lying? See video link >>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRRBwD_1P9U&t=7s Here is open practice of Ramadan in China >>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHKb6R5Ml0k

  39. World.Peace

    Hi Ban Chen. Tibet has been in and out of China ruling jurisdiction since the Yarlung Dynasty over 1000 years ago. In 1951 the Chinese government were about to sign off on an autonomy agreement when the CIA got involved not long after arming factions in Tibet. The main fear of China with Tibet being a much more autonomous region is the US using this loosening to grab Tibet as their client state and put US military there. Here is a video on Tibet and this issue. >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXD91tmJ0g4

  40. Darrell Egan

    In regards to Taiwan. After Surrender Taiwan was given to China Chiang Kai Chek of the KMT Nationalists was criticised from allied countries for corruption of resources given to him to fight the Japanese occupiers. Even at one stage the KMT nationalists co operated with the Japanese occupying forces. During the Civil war between Chang Kai Shek KMT nationalists & the Communists just after the Japanese surrender Chang Kai Shek took his forces and occupied Taiwan which should have been handed over to the a mainland Chinese government. The poverty stricken Taiwanese people who were starving after being occupied and looted by Japanese occupation were looted again by Chang Kai Shek so he could use their resources to fight the Communists on the mainland. Chang Kai Shek not long after introduced the longest Martial law campaign in the world on any person who resisted him and many people were jailed and tortured. This was called the White terror incident in Taiwan. No body in western countries ever hear about this. Here is a video on theKMT nationalist White terror Campaign in Taiwan which the US supported. This White terror campaign went on from from 19 May 1949 to 15 July 1987. > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkdlDRqRbzw

  41. World.Peace

    Karen. The above article debunks your BS propaganda. The people commenting in this post have seen through your BS. You are just a ranting indoctrinated mouthpiece. The Daila Lama’s brother lives in Tibet and is happy. Do you ever talk about the Daila Lama’s call to persecute the Dorje Shugden Buddhists who do not suit his religious style? Do you talk about the Dailai lama style Buddhism which had people living in serfdom poverty and the fact that any practitioner in Tibet who offended the Daila Lama teachings were subject to eye gouging and other horrible punishments. Watch these videos on this> Daila lama praising attacks on Shugden Buddhists >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feMO5YTufCY Here is the serfdom torture Daila Lama Buddhism >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYEOSCIOnrs

  42. World.Peace

    Th 11th Pancham Lama is alive and doing well with his education. The 6 year old boy you are referring to who having no choice was forced into a religion not of his choosing. The Dalai Lama even stated this. Karen is trying out another lie, Here is the news story on the 11th Pancham Lama Karen is referring to>> https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/archive/himachal/panchen-lama-alive-having-normal-education-dalai-lama-579684 Karen caught making misleading comments again.

  43. Joe Carli

    Karen, you are the “boy with his finger in the hole in the dyke”..while the rest of the embankment around him has collapsed!…..What you fear…yes : fear…and what the “West” fears with the rise of China is the same fear that ancient Greece feared with the rise of Rome…a well-structured governing entity that has the military and cultural power to back itself up…while their own state was in obvious decadence and decline.

    China exhibts discipline, direction, determination and has a civilising plan backed by thousands of years of civilising and cultural savviness to follow through with its ideology…unlike the West which…apart from some European nations..is in sad and neglected decline…

    England can no longer, in any sense of the word, be considered a “world power”…likewise her European neighbours…Europe is no longer THE coloniser…America, along with its satellite states/allies, are such a hotch-potch of disorganised, corrupted, greed-infested entities that no longer represent their doctirne of :”by, for and of” their citizens, that they too no longer have moral or ethical right to advise or expect loyality from their race-hated neighbours…those “shithole locations” that are in reality despised by the governments of many Western “democracies” that have plundered and profiteered from those “shithole’s” destruction..

    And yes…Karen…you have every right to “fear” China…for after enduring, living through and surviving that century of “humiliation” from the West…like the oppressed gendered voice sings…”I’ve been down there on the floor and I’ll never go back there again”…and it was through the victory of Mao and the CCP. that their nation is once again holding its head high and it is within its rights to expect a greater respect from those nations who come grovelling to the “store’s window” seeking to flog their bling and pick up much “at cost” merchandise to trade back to their own peoples…

    It is not China, with its responsibility that it manages so capably to well over a billion citizens that is culpable, but rather logic and reason would point out that WE, with barely 25 million people (can we REALLY call ourselves citizens?) can not even manage aged care or the delivery systems of infrustructure most important like the NDIS or the NBN over the delivery of accrued greed of the 1% that flaunts its ostentatious venality so blatantly like the crude pornographer clutching and shaking his genitalia at a dumbfounded, yet compliant audience…

    You may have the courageous tenacity to keep on arguing, Karen…but you’ve got it SO all wrong.

  44. Joe Carli

    You are ranting, Karen….Our own govt’ is allowing resources WITHIN our own environment to be robbed, plundered, devastated and destroyed by greed and overexploitation from their OWN kind and you are stabbing a crooked finger and spluttering frothy spittle at a nation you know no more of than what propaganda has informed you…

    You are ranting like a fool….

  45. Roswell

    I’m sorry, Karen, but I can’t argue with Joe’s comment. He speaks honestly, and truly.

  46. Joe Carli

    I do not “fear” communism like you do, Karen…why should I?..What..they would “make me work”?…I worked in this “Liberal Democracy” full time since I was 14 yrs…labouring in the building trade…no easy task as you only got paid for what your hands produced…I built my own homes and suffered the impost of rapacious bank interest in doing so…does a communist govt’ profiteer so brutally off its own people?…do you see CCP lash welts on the backs of those Chinese students or tourists that venture outside their country to our bright and sunny shores to soak up the sun and frolic in the sea?..and I disagree that it is a rising middle-class that gives China its wealth…rather, I say that it is their own working-class that is finally reaping reward for its dilligence and capability…Do communists allow religions to manipulate, sexually abuse and rob blind the people?…Allow the 1% to totally dominate ecomnomics till the one blanc-mange “free-market” ideology corrupts and manipulates elections in this “Liberal Democracy”?.. Control the politicians and let them plunder at will their own treasury?…Leave the aged and vulnerable to rot or die in desperation?…

    Your cocoon of dissonance must be mink-lined, Karen for you not to notice the filth piling up at your back door…

    No…I have never “feared” communism like YOU have, because I have shared my skills with community and I have gathered my needs about me likewise from my community..I have lived a kind of “common unison” with my class and friends…I need not your fear or favour…you, with your paranoia and cultural cringe I abhor…

    You and your “UN-Liberal Democracy” are a lie and a thing of a lost past…

  47. Joe Carli

    Freedom on the Wallaby [poem by Henry Lawson, 16 May 1891]
    11 May 2012 by ·

    [Editor: This is one of the most well-known poems written by Henry Lawson. It was quoted by conservative Queensland parliamentarians as an example of the radicalism of The Worker newspaper. Published in The Worker (Brisbane, Qld.), 16 May 1891.]

    Freedom on the Wallaby.

    (Written for the “Worker.”)

    Australia’s a big country,
    An’ Freedom’s humping bluey,
    And Freedom’s on the wallaby;
    Oh don’t you hear ’er cooey?
    She’s just begun to boomerang.
    She’ll knock the tyrants silly,
    She’s going to light another fire
    And boil another billy.

    Our fathers toiled for bitter bread
    While loafers thrived beside ’em,
    But food to eat and clothes to wear,
    Their native land denied ’em.
    An’ so they left that native land,
    In spite of their devotion,
    An’ so they come, or if they stole,
    Were sent across the ocean.

    Then Freedom couldn’t stand the glare
    Of Royalty’s regalia.
    She left the loafers where they were
    An’ come out to Australia.
    But now across the mighty main
    The chains have come ter bind her,
    She little thought to see again
    The wrongs she left behind her.

    Our parents toiled to make a home,
    Hard grubbin’ ’twas and clearin’,
    They wasn’t crowded much with lords
    When they was pioneerin’.
    But now that we have made the land
    A garden full of promise.
    Old Greed must crook ’is dirty hand
    An’ come ter take it from us.

    So we must fly a rebel flag,
    As others did before us,
    And we must sing a rebel song
    And join in rebel chorus.
    We’ll make the tyrants feel the sting
    O’ those that they would throttle;
    They needn’t say the fault is ours,
    If blood should stain the wattle.

    Henry Lawson.
    Brisbane, May, 1891.

    Wake up to yourself, Karen…you’re backin the wrong team.

  48. Terence Mills

    I see Matt Canavan has a solution to our trade woes with China, particularly coal (which he appears to have been rubbing into his face recently !)

    His suggestion : place a punitive tariff on our iron ore exports – that’ll teach them !!!

    I wonder what Gina thinks about that idea ?

  49. Matters Not

    As Rudd pointed out some time ago on RN, it’s time to put the metaphorical megaphone away as a starting point in Australia/China relations. It was a sentiment repeated on last night’s The Drum. (Be thankful for small mercies that we have an ABC.)

    For China, any tension between politics and economics is always resolved in favour of the political. Indeed it’s not even a contest. Australian politicians don’t seem to understand that. As result our representatives (here in Australia at least) proceed from one disaster to the next – offering an illustrative lesson on what NOT to do.

    Yes we are punching above our weight but in this instance – it’s to our own head. Don’t seem to recognise that Trump et al lost the election and Biden MAY make a grand gesture. Best to keep our heads down.

  50. Joe Carli

    Karen, I won’t make any inquiry regarding your sanity, rather I’ll just let your post above give evidence one way or another in THAT respect…I’ll go in peace and leave you to do likewise.

  51. Matters Not

    KK re

    feelings about China are bipartisan in the US and Australia

    And they were way back in Whitlam’s day as well. Fact is Gough beat Nixon to China by a virtual whisker and the virulent criticism launched agin’ Gough melted into the background. From zero to a hero in a remarkably quick time. Things can change very, very quickly on the international AND domestic stage(s).

    As for Albo, he was a good friend of Rudd. He, in all probability, will be listening to Rudd’s advice. Big (potential) opportunity for Albo here to show the way as Morrison sinks into a mire of his own making.

    As any visitor to China will soon be made aware, the Chinese do not like the Japanese (and vice versa) for a whole variety of (good) reasons (try Rape of Nanjing for starters), yet Japan is not in China’s sights at the moment. Nor is Vietnam and a whole host of other neighbors. Best if we keep our heads below the parapet and let Pompeo et al become the sacrificial lambs. Diplomacy 101. Nations have (ever changing) interests not long-term friends.

  52. Matters Not

    KK, it can reasonably be argued that China doesn’t really get on with any of its neighbours. Take Vietnam as a good historical example. At one level, the enmity runs deep and again for very good historical reasons but that doesn’t mean they don’t co-operate on a day-to-day basis. After all it’s in their interests for that to happen.

    Many Chinese companies now base their operations in Vietnam, mainly because labour power is much cheaper there. Even Australia is now a good friend of (communist) Vietnam. Indeed we import the amber brew in significant quantities.

    Truth is, Australia is a military minnow and our habit of currying favour via adopting Deputy Sherriff postures ought to stop. It’s embarrassing as well as being counter-productive to our longer term interests. We must stop punching ourselves in the head. The brain trauma is already too apparent.

  53. Matters Not

    KK – all in favour of the Rule of Law concept as distinct from the arbitrary rule of an individual as well as Rule by Law notion as that tends to happen when we don’t have a genuine separation of powers (Legislative, Executive and Judicial arms of government) with well defined checks and balances coupled with a Bill of Rights. Clearly we have some way to go and with recent developments, particularly in the US under Trump, there’s a need also (perhaps) to have some of the conventions documented as well.

    Lots of understandings needed into the bargain. What we seem to lack currently is a political philosopher who can bring it all together and start a new conversation. And for that to happen we need a much better informed electorate.

  54. World.Peace

    Matters Not. A bit of an assumption to say that China does not get on with their neighbours. Read the article and see who is egging neighbours on against China.

  55. Matters Not

    World.Peace yes it was a generalisation but it did include the word really as in really get on, regardless of whether they are egged on or not. And I stand by that. After all, they are in competition in a highly competitive world and then there’s historical hang-overs. No claim to real expertise here but I’ve been to most of the neighbouring nations, read the odd tome, scratched a few historical wounds and listened to some national bile.

    Perhaps if I leave it at that.

  56. Joe Carli

    “You ask how I know that Messalina lies?….Because she spends so much time with so much language in trying to tell HER “truth”..”

  57. World.Peace

    Karen. Every message has CCP in it which reflects an unnatural obsessive nature. Are you sure you do not have obsessive compulsion disorder as a result of brainwashing? I know parents who have children with ADHD and obsessive compulsive issues. Obsessive repeating a letter as you do such as CCP is a symptom. Also the other symptom which you possess is a stubborn disconnect from reality when given facts not actually responding on facts but shutting down from them with a repetitive rant.

  58. calculus witherspoon.

    Not impressed with his Uighur ethnic comments, much of the rest I agree with.

    Furthermore, how DARE the hypocritically pious West complain about Chinese treatment of Muslims given their own track record across most of West Asia and the Middle East with a cumulative death toll running into the millions..

  59. Florence Howarth

    How do you know the Chinese people don’t support the Communist party of today? The people who lifted them out of poverty. A few generations of people who have not endured famine? A country with a rapidly growing middle class. In the west, including the USA, the middle class is decreasing.

  60. calculus witherspoon.

    Interesting comment Flo. We know the rednecks in the US live in a world I for one find badly perceived, yet others perhaps see us as out of touch. I certainly think that if we are smug and insular and live in an information vacuum influencing how we may see others, then others elsewhere might find our rude awakening at the hands of China not as much of a shock as we seem to be finding it.

  61. Terence Mills

    I see that we are taking the Chinese to the World Trade Organisation over their ban on Australian barley imports. I can’t help wondering what the WTO would do about Australia’s ban on Huawei FiveG technology which we banned from Australia under pressure from the USA.

    Just asking !

  62. Watchdog

    Wow! How many of you religious nutters have Cognitive Dissonance and need some serious divine intervention!

  63. Kronomex

    “Wow! How many of you religious nutters have Cognitive Dissonance and need some serious divine intervention!”

    Care to expand on your nonsensical statement with particular attention to “religious nutters” to enlighten us mere, obviously ignorant in your eyes, mortals? At the moment your comment makes you sound more like a waste of space.

  64. World.Peace

    Calcus. It is not a matter with not impressed it is a matter of claims made without evidence and false claims debunked. The US government have said explicitly they want to disrupt the silk road economic belt initiative in which Xinjiang is the foyer. Watch Daniel Dumbril on you tube debunk these claims and where the source of these claims come from.

  65. Watchdog

    KronomexDecember 17, 2020 at 10:08 am

    Your opinion only, take it for what it is.
    Enjoy your Merry Christmas.

  66. AI

    A forum like this one would last one day under a Chinese Mis-Infodemic dictatorship. Once you were all identified, and that technology now exists, it would be off to a Re-education camp.

    Enjoy the free flow of opinion here while you can, because Big Tech has designs on freedom of thought in the West.
    Google once had a tagline it applied to its business – ‘Don’t be evil’.
    How things have changed.
    Cancel culture, deplatforming, shadow banning, algorithms designed to hide facts, deleting youtubers and twitter accounts if you are over the target. It is so obvious what they are up to.

  67. Kronomex

    “Your opinion only, take it for what it is. Enjoy your Merry Christmas.”

    So I take it that means you won’t be enlightening us? Sadly, I expect we’ll still be waiting for some “serious divine intervention” even as the universe sinks into heat death.

  68. calculus witherspoon.

    Having been compelled previously to add an opinion piece from an outside source of some merit on this topic,, the treatment is repeated, this time employing an article at Michael West to further bolster the efforts of more thoughtful commenters and pursue the consistent aim of AIM in presenting a balanced and multifaceted picture involving a serious issue for adults:

    Australia pays high price for megaphone diplomacy

  69. Darrell Egan

    Here is a good article by Michael West on US Weapons company funded Australian Strategic Policy institute and their lack of Independent claims against China. Whether it be India with the Adani mine, or US buying interests Australia needs to keep sovereignty on key assts. The problem is not the buyer being India, US or China, the problem is the seller in the current federal government who sells off key assets. However the megaphone diplomacy approach buying into false US claims about China has put cola in the Christmas stocking with Scott Morrison. China will continue with its clean energy program which is 360 billion into the clean energy sector and 13 million jobs in the clean energy sector in 2020 in which they have reached that milestone and do not require as much coal> https://www.michaelwest.com.au/revealed-radical-escalation-in-us-war-machine-funding-for-australian-government-think-tank-aspi/

  70. ajogrady

    Karen KyleDecember 17, 2020 at 9:09 pm
    If what you say is true then the West has nothing to worry about. F-35’s are a dog of a aircraft.

    “it hasn’t escaped the attention of the West that China pinched almost every detail of the F thirty five and built copies”.

  71. World.Peace

    Karen Kyle. Get your facts straight. The Us has the Biggest Bluewater navy in the world with 43 Aircraft carriers which are used for offensive purposes to China’s one regional aircraft carrier. Us has by far the most nuclear weapons in the world. US annual military budget far exceed China. Stop distorting facts. Do you just make things up?

  72. DrakeN

    Someone rattled your cage again, Karen?

    Do get over your paranoid obsession with China.

    Try focusing on the ongoing evils of the USofA in bullying all and sundry wherever and wherever they chance upon an opportunity.

    Actually, a study of the evils the of corporate domination of world trade and industry would provide you with a lot more factual information to become beligerent over than you obsessive focus on the ambitions of the Chinese government.

  73. DrakeN

    Gee, Karen, hook line and sinker 😉

    Atrocities bother me commited by whomever, and the USofA has such a long history and expertise in the trade.

    China has 4.24 times the population of the USofA and have a long way to catch up with the 1243.5 required to balance their fleet – another 893.5 by your figures.

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