108 comments

1. OPPOSE THE MAJOUR PARTIES!November 2, 2017 at 6:45 pm

   ‘So, the question remains “In her position, what would you do?”’ Winning an election isn’t everything mate if it means you are going to harm people if you do. Fact is both major parties have vested interests in coal…ALP for its workers and union member supporters that donate to the ALP and LNP because of the capitalists mine and power plant owners and operators that donate to them. Neither can make a proper impartial decision in the interests of the nation. Both those parties are inevitably doomed so why delay it. Furthermore, they have brought their own demise upon themselves. They can both fck off. OPPOSE THE MAJOUR PARTIES!

2. Kaye LeeNovember 2, 2017 at 7:01 pm

   So pleased to see you back truthie.

   However, I feel compelled to ask…….

   When will politicians have the courage to mention climate change again? Is it to be ignored just because your majority is slim or non-existent? Are we to accept that no leader is strong enough to tell the truth for fear of the political repercussions? Is no-one capable of leading opinion backed up by every bit of scientific evidence available and every expert at their disposal? Can no-one prosecute the economic argument even when armed with all the evidence?

   To me that shows we have self-serving jellyfish drawing leaders’ salaries. Elect me because, even though I tell the same lies, I am not as bad as the other guy. You are there to serve the public, not ensure your own survival. Both major parties are to be deplored for their spineless short term self-serving approach.

3. Ricardo29November 2, 2017 at 7:06 pm

   Thanks for this interesting perspective and analysis. I am, like you, an opponent of the whole Adani shebang, and was using this as the basis of my criticism of Palaszczuk not quite realising the bind she is in with the Katters. Clearly though, the only option for Queenslanders is to ensure the LNP and PHON are placed last.

4. jimNovember 2, 2017 at 7:20 pm

   A good read if even it’s ALP biased but hey in Mackay we only ever see the LNP on the TV even as we’re an ALP governed state .On thing i’ll say is if the LNP win this election it’ll prove even more that the media bends the truth, and it”ll prove that the media is corrupt as i’m sure us QLD”rs don’t wish to go back to the Newman sackings 14,000.

5. OPPOSE THE MAJOUR PARTIES!November 2, 2017 at 7:40 pm

   QLD Electricity Privatization. The biggest election issue in Qld will be whether the LNP and their ONE NATION partner will privatize the electricity network as they have in every other state they have been elected in. This is what the ALP need to push…privatization of electricity and the inevitable increase in electricity prices that follow that privatization. Just as they did in the WA state election.

6. Trish CorryNovember 2, 2017 at 8:57 pm

   ??????
   YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES
   ??????
   So over the Greens disgusting lies. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank You!

   The Greens can never form Government in QLD. The Stop Adani campaign is a Greens campaign to win three inner Brisbane seats.

   Stop Adani Cairns is ex-Labor Rob Pyne.

   Antony Green said if Hanson gets up in the North then the 3 inner Brisbane seats the Greens are targeting and Gold Coast are crucial to win for Labor. Do NO putting Labor second CAN GIVE US LNP PHON!!!!

   The Greens who gave us PHON in the Senate because of their ridiculous voting reforms are campaigning to remove Labor from Government. The ONLY other Governance option is LNP PHON.
   The Greens don’t care. In fact they would love it because their profile would lift protesting against LNP PHON. It’s all they care about – having a whinge.

   Every single person not from Queensland campaigning to boot Labor out, should be forced to live here under LNP PHON for the entire term.

   The Greens make me sick. They are selfish vindictive brainless morons. Anyone who has lived under Joh and Newman who support this Stop Adani rot to boot Labor out need their #%&$%# Head read!

   Thank you again for a really great article. I cannot remain as calm as you. I’ve been pointing out the Greens are dogs for ages. It’s time others woke up to the fact they are not the “nice” party. They are the “it’s all about us and we don’t care who suffers for our selfishness” party.

7. Kaye LeeNovember 2, 2017 at 9:00 pm

   I agree it is a difficult situation and that PHON and LNP must be put last (ok, maybe ahead of the racist xenophobic white supremacists), but we must find leaders with courage. Why is it so hard to tell/sell the truth? Is it right to be complicit in lies in order to win because the alternatives are despicable? Maybe? Personally, I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

8. Kaye LeeNovember 2, 2017 at 9:08 pm

   So you blame the Greens because Queensland politicians are too gutless to tell their constituents the truth about climate change. This is not just a Queensland issue Trish. Pretending there is a future for more coal jobs is just a con for starters and utterly irresponsible in our attempts to limit global warming.

   Could you please point out the Greens lies because it seems to me that they are the only ones telling the truth.

9. Truth SeekerNovember 2, 2017 at 9:19 pm

   Hi OTMP, and thanks for your comment.

   You’re right to say that “Winning an election isn’t everything”, but as someone who has voted in QLD, NSW and federal elections, I have to say that the reputation that QLD has around the country, for its parochial nature is in many ways well founded.

   The “Newman” experiment was an absolute disaster for this state, as was evidenced by the fact that after just one term he was unceremoniously shown the door, which took many, including AP by surprise.

   Part of the problem relates to the fact that we have no upper house, so when we have a minority government, as with the current Labor administration, they walk a very fine line, exacerbated by the fact that the vast majority of our media is Murdoch owned, or very right leaning, as Jim alluded to in his comment below!

   Like Jim, here on the Sunshine coast, we only get The Courier Mail, and The Sunshine Coast Daily, which are pretty much interchangeable, especially on the weekends, and you very rarely hear any positive reports of the good things the Gov are doing, or trying to do, but we hear regularly about what they are doing wrong, much of which is just right wing propaganda, dressed up as news!

   So my article was really about trying to get people to look at the realities of the situation faced by a government desperate to keep the likes of Newman/ Nichols from again taking the chainsaw to our services, selling our assets and trashing our environment for the sake of pure and unadulterated corporate greed.

   And regardless of what anyone thinks or hopes for, the reality is if we don’t return Labor, then we WILL get the LNP, probably with a side order of PHON!

   And if you care about our environment, then that will be your worst nightmare… And certainly mine!

10. ShutterbugNovember 2, 2017 at 9:32 pm

    Whether we like it or not, Adani is a big ticket item in this election and Anna had better start making her stance VERY clear on it right from the start. If she continues to dance around this issue, the impression she will give is that of a charlatan and the only beneficiary of that will be The Chip Lady. The rumoured amount of jobs that the hole in the ground is pathetically small for the money being poured into it, not to mention the water being given away for free and the farmers who will suffer as a result. The electorate is looking for a receptacle to put a boot into and if Anna doesn’t come clean, it will be her that will cop that boot. Out of office.

    P.S. I am in total agreement with Kaye. The Greens are IMHO the ones who are pointing out the bleeding obvious here. It is the other parties who are the blusterers and liars and I for one will not vote for a party just because they are beholden to a nut case in a big hat.

11. Truth SeekerNovember 2, 2017 at 9:41 pm

    Hi Kaye ☺

    Thanks for your kind words, and I must admit its good to get back to writing after the last few months of hospitals, doctors and every test known to man… And then some…. But I digress ☺

    Climate change and environmental issues are actually talked about by the gov, but its rarely reported in the Murdoch press which is grossly over represented up here, and even though they are the gov, they are like a lone voice in the wilderness.

    Having said that, I too wish that AP could take a more direct and blatant stand against Adani, as she is certainly taking a lot of heat from the greens and other vested interests, who are thinking more about their own political futures than the consequences of their hysterical rhetoric, and my sincere hope is that this article might actually get some people thinking about the realities of our situation up here, and stop making blind judgements based on the self serving propaganda from both extremes of the political divide, but she is in the thick of it, and for someone like me who is vehemently opposed to everything Adani, the other alternative is totally unthinkable.

    Cheers 🙂

12. Truth SeekerNovember 2, 2017 at 9:46 pm

    Hi Ricardo, and thanks for your comment and feedback.

    Yes, it’s a very difficult position for her, and you are dead right, that we need to impress upon a majority that the LNP and PHON MUST be put last.

    Cheers.

13. KeithNovember 2, 2017 at 9:53 pm

    Countries generally are not fulfilling promises made at Paris.
    We have witnessed superstorms in 2017.
    2016 was the warmest year recorded.
    Oceans are warming, a recent Report suggests that the Oceans weren’t as warm in other epochs as had been thought.
    Scientists are saying that the change in climate we are witnessing now since the Industrial Revolution, previously took thousands of years to develop.
    Tundra areas are becoming warmer and emitting methane.

    Our politicians are falling over themselves to ensure that the Carmichael mine goes ahead; people’s health and lives are apparently of no consequence.

    Politicians are displaying a cargo cult mentality in relation to Adani; instead of jobs and wealth, greater climate disruption can be expected.
    Creating the Adani mine is a death sentence for many people. Climate change cannot be attributed to particular events ; but, climate change does influence the strength of extreme events. It has been estimated that about 900 people have died on Puerto Rico post Maria through lack of safe water, medicines, and medical treatment. Only 30% of the island has power at present.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-02/adani-chinese-state-owned-companies-in-deal-to-bankroll-mine/9109880
    http://www.climatecodered.org/2010/09/what-would-3-degrees-mean.html
    https://futurism.com/images/global-warming-scenarios/

14. Truth SeekerNovember 2, 2017 at 9:56 pm

    Hi Jim, and thanks for your comment.

    Yes, it’s very hard to get balance in the reporting up here, and call me naïve, but I really hope that some critical thinking might actually prevail against the Murdoch spin?

    And in my experience, QLD elections are never quite as straightforward as those in other states!

    Cheers

15. Truth SeekerNovember 2, 2017 at 10:13 pm

    Hi Trish, and thanks for your kind words and feedback.

    And what else can I say but… YES, I can only agree, their self serving campaigns are nothing more than a cynical throwback to the Black Wiggle’s “Pragmatic” approach to personal and political ambition, to the detriment of what they claim to be “Core beliefs”, and it’s sad, because I believe there are many genuine greens members and supporters who are duped into supporting a party who’s “Stated Goals” are not only compromised but in the case of the QLD elections, put at real risk, for the sake of political expediency and self service.

    And I suppose the same could be said for PHON too… If I was feeling generous… Which when it comes to PHON, I’m NOT!

    Cheers 🙂

16. Frank SmithNovember 2, 2017 at 10:31 pm

    I despair at the likely prospect of a LNP/PHON Government here in Queensland. But the ALP has been given an “out” today with the revelation that Adani is in cohorts with a Chinese company with ties to the Chinese Government to finance this mine and in so doing destroy the promised jobs bonanza that has been used to promote this mine. Such a development from China would be very unpopular in north and central Queensland and provides an opportunity for the ALP to switch their support for Adani and vigorously support the excellent renewable energy projects that are in advanced stages of planning in north Queensland. This should be accompanied by some aggressive ALP policies to retrain north and central Queenslanders to take up the jobs these renewable energy projects will provide. There is still time to make these changes before polling day and they would negate the huge backlash that the ALP is likely to suffer by supporting Adani. Townsville and Rocky Councils should also immediately cancel their stupid $36 million promise to build Adani’s airfield in the Galilee Basin. These new revelations provide a rare opportunity to change horses, so go for it Annastacia – I don’t think you have anything to lose at this stage.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/02/china-may-bankroll-adanis-carmichael-mine-statements-show

17. Matters NotNovember 2, 2017 at 10:36 pm

    So many ‘changes’ in Queensland this time around – including new electoral boundaries, more electorates (4) from 89 to 93), the move from a optional preferential to a compulsory preferential voting regime – make this election virtually impossible to predict. And most certainly at this stage. So many variables.

    To complicate matters, all Parties are led by incumbents handicapped by charisma bypasses. Indeed the Leader of PHON will most likely lose his seat,

    But for me at least, it will be interesting.

18. Truth SeekerNovember 2, 2017 at 10:39 pm

    Hi again Kaye,

    Sadly, up here the greens have been and still are pushing their own agenda, with scant regard for the consequences of their actions, In claiming that Labor care nothing for the environment, and stating that they are the ONLY party that cares for the environment, which is just not true, and the sad thing is that if as a result of their self serving approach, the LNP do get across the line, they will take no responsibility for said consequences.

    So we have the greens saying that Labor is as bad as the LNP, with many “self declared” greens supporter advocating that ALL pro Adani parties should be put last, some even advocating that non greens voters look for anti Adani independents, playing into the very lopsided rhetoric. And then we see the LNP saying that Labor don’t support Adani, because if they did, they would approve the feds NAIF proposal to “Loan” $900 mill to the company.

    Both arguments are self serving and not true in essence, but may well result in the worst outcome for the environment, the GBR, the Tourism industry and the state, and the Mudoch press run it all, playing both ends against the middle, so to speak.

    So that’s why I said I hope that critical thinking will prevail over the emotional responses that we are seeing up here… Because we should all be working together, for the common good, NOT playing politics for short term political gains.

19. Matters NotNovember 2, 2017 at 11:00 pm

    That The Greens are affecting the nature of the political discourse can only be regarded as a positive.

    That all Parties (across the ideological spectrum) are now openly advocating and accepting the legitimacy of market intervention (not necessarily in the verbal but evidenced in proposed actions) is also a positive.

20. Andrew J SmithNovember 2, 2017 at 11:10 pm

    Deeper issue here, not just QLD, but Oz party based democracy which has become hollowed out; solution is not more single issue micro parties or independents.

    No grounded policy from branches etc., ageing party management who do not want new members while memberships are declining; Libs in Melbourne suggest recruiting Mormons and Evangelicals for their conservative belief in religion and authority, hence able to follow orders while old Labor Catholics who now support LNP are tapped as a resource).

    All parties have been actively lobbied to follow think tank policy recommendations or model policy (imported from US conservatives e.g. ALEC), with corporate nativist nobbling of environmental regulation and renewables (vs. preference for focus upon and blaming ‘immigrants’ and ‘unsustainable population growth’ etc.).

    This is facilitated by a compliant and conservative media (not just NewsCorp), which can good actively preclude good policy and MPs; witnessed the job done on Rudd by mainstream media continually citing ‘opinion polls’ on his leadership and mining tax (it seemed so obvious it was media making the news and encouraging a coup on behalf of political and corporate masters).

    Mainstream parties national, state and local must re-energise their grass roots or branches and memberships which, especially LNP, are declining and ageing. Further, culturally specific media and MPs need to break out of their bubbles, and increasing diversity, in cultural outlook and bodies, is sorely needed.

21. paul walterNovember 2, 2017 at 11:12 pm

    Hmmmm.

    “Truth Seeker”, eh?

    Now, one wonders who this mysterious seeker after truth may be and whether the truth seeker may also be a truth teller.

    Ok. It is no worse than the pro conservative lies of the Murdoch and rightist liars; Kaye Lee has been very right to suggest that even the most glib of commentators can’t find any sort of “sell” the Adani project (no use blaming the Greens who have merely pointed out the obvious).

    Frank Smith;s comment only further emphasises the sleazy side of all this manipulative stuff going back years and I am not keen on outsiders in effect dictating as some sort of unelected government, what happens in this country.

    Personally, I blame the FTA’s for weakening local communities and the Andrew Robb IPA types. We see today another example of how neoliberalism plays out for real people with the NAB profits /sacking apparatus again operative.

    But many bitterly resent Labor for acceding to neoliberalism rather than adequately examining, exposing and challenging it for what it is, a licence to fiddle the books and de fact, loot. Palaszczuk has not been convincing in demonstrating that she has been objective in her position toward Adani, even allowing for the politics and the bait that things will have an ethical outcome should Labor be returned from the TS, come across as very thin and somehow familiar.

    So tired of the lies of the neolib era.

22. Truth SeekerNovember 2, 2017 at 11:20 pm

    Hi Shutterbug, and thanks for your comment.

    You’re right that Adani is a big ticket item in this election, even though I believe that Labor are working on the assumption that the mine will never get off the ground, and there are many within the party who are openly apposed to the mine.
    The big problem, and the one that might just come back to bite all of us who are vehemently opposed to the mine is the claim that there is no difference between Labor and the LNP which is blatantly untrue, self serving and counter productive, and sadly a claim made time and again by those from the extreme left.

    Cheers ☺

23. Trish CorryNovember 2, 2017 at 11:33 pm

    To put it into perspective for people. It takes a lot to make me cry. I am very very scared. I broke down and cried two nights ago because I am utterly terrified that LNP PHON will get in. I just wish people would see that NOTHING is more important than giving Labor a majority and crushing Hanson and Nicholls. NOTHING.

    On the other hand I am vehemently angry that people’s lives and livelihoods mean NOTHING to people actively pushing to get Labor out of office. Because the only other option is LNP PHON ?

    Why not ask the Greens HOW they will stop Adani? Ask the Greens is the federal court corrupt too? Ask the Greens to name ONE mine with limited volumetric usage on water. And is the supposed “unlimited water” just a play on words to incite emotion?
    Ask the Greens Which of the 100 regulations on water use they don’t like?
    And finally ask them if there is any compensation to pay out if the mine is cancelled? And IF this is even possible? The candidate for Maiwar told me he didn’t have that info. Do you know why he doesn’t care? Because the Greens don’t care about people just politics. They haven’t even stopped to think if the compo and legal battle could cripple QLD. That means no health, aged care, schools. Oh who cares about people ?‍♀️

    Because this entire thing. All the lies. All the targeting of Labor. All the silence of Newman’s sickening reign, is a campaign to win 3 seats in Brisbane. Ask Greens why they are silent on LNP and PHON. Like WTF!!!!! Whose preferences do you people think they need to win Trads seat? Hmmm?

    Most political parties who don’t adopt the Hanson style of politics for idiots lay out their Hows and Whys and have to answer to the public on the pros and cons. But not the Greens. Anyone not scrutinising this is participating in the same idiocy that gave the world Trump. Because that was an election won on the non thinking vote.

    Oh and if there were really 100,000 farmers irate about the mine, like the Greens claim, we would hear it here in Rocky loud and clear. It would be HUGE.

24. Trish CorryNovember 2, 2017 at 11:41 pm

    A poem From my blog this week. This is what Stop Adani sounds like to me. I hope it gives you of an idea of what we face because apparently a coal mine is worse than going through this again.

    The Greens campaign of “Stop Adani”

    Has gathered momentum very quickly

    Screaming Labor is corrupt, so wrongfully

    When contracts were signed by LNP

    May see us suffer in misery

    Painful long years of Anxiety

    Why don’t Greens attack PHON or LNP?

    Cos Greens want three seats in inner Brissy

    It’s not about regions or you and me

    And here is why I hope you see

    Why Greens lies about Labor are insanity

    And Stop Adani is a Greens campaign strategy

    Because on these issues Greens don’t have the empathy

    LNP sacked the nurses who care for you and me

    But But Labor and Adani

    Nicholls sold aged care as a strategy

    But But Labor and Adani

    Nicholls tried so hard to sell our electricity

    But But Labor and Adani

    Nicholls shut a youth mental health facility

    But But Labor and Adani

    Post closure suicides there were three

    But But Labor and Adani

    In solitary confinement sat innocent bikies

    But But Labor and Adani

    Nicholls cancelled jail squad doggies

    But But Labor and Adani

    Then LNP attacked screening of our boobies

    But But Labor and Adani

    Banned singles and gays from surrogacy

    But But Labor and Adani

    No more Skilling Queenslanders for free

    But But Labor and Adani

    LNP cancelled help for tenancies

    But But Labor and Adani

    Nicholls canned Nurses for little schoolies

    But But Labor and Adani

    and sold off school ovals of sporty kiddies

    But But Labor and Adani

    Nicholls sold public housing for those in poverty

    But But Labor and Adani

    LNP killed family planning for disabilities

    But But Labor and Adani

    Thousands and thousands of public servants axed in a sacking frenzy

    But But Labor and Adani

    And seriously pissed of the judiciary

    But But Labor and Adani

    The Office of Climate change was history

    But But Labor …..

    Greens say are worse than all this you see

    When Adani will still dig under LNP PHON mentality

    Cos LNP signed them up with no scrutiny

    Labor added strictest regulations in history

    But removing Labor will cause Greens ecstasy

    If they win just one seat in Inner Brissy

    Greens southerners don’t live in QLD you see

    And have to suffer LNP PHON cruelty

    To insist a mine is more important than LNP trickery

    I hope you see it’s an absurdity

    And it’s not the time for voting third parties

    Nor to punish Labor wrongfully

    Another hung parliament is too scary

    Cos there are only two choices in QLD see

    Palaszczuk Labor or the Nicholls LNP (who may join with PHON crazies)

    There are No Greens ruling QLD fantasies

    Cos up here we battle the bloody Tories

    Greens Lies may give us years of LNP PHON insecurity

    I don’t want that ever again for my community

    I am voting one Labor

    Please stand with me.

25. OPPOSE THE MAJOUR PARTIES!November 2, 2017 at 11:49 pm

    Shutterbug: “I for one will not vote for a party just because they are beholden to a nut case in a big hat” Beautiful!

26. stephentardrewNovember 3, 2017 at 12:01 am

    Excellent summary Truth Seeker. My what to do? So many moral issues and so little ethics to go round.

27. paul walterNovember 3, 2017 at 12:02 am

    Just recalling, Labor in Victoria also tried to put another sneaky old growth logging stunt the other day.

    Forty years on and they still can’t understand the connection between ecology and rational economics?

28. paul walterNovember 3, 2017 at 12:06 am

    This expands on the Truth Seeker notions without the emotionalism and is far more objective. Quiggin to the rescue.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/01/the-adani-problem-will-haunt-palaszcsuks-election-campaign

29. Truth SeekerNovember 3, 2017 at 12:10 am

    Hi Paul. 🙂

    I am, as you rightly described, A “Seeker of Truth”, nothing more and nothing less. That doesn’t mean that I get it right all the time, but I try to be open to the truth, and keep seeking it.

    Who I am is neither here nor there, but many that I trust, like Migs, who is responsible for me getting into blogging in the first place, know who I am, but for personal and health reasons, I chose to use my bloggers name.

    But for your information, I am a musician, singer/songwriter, author, poet and blogger, amongst other things, and have been a political tragic since my teens which was many long years ago.

    I live on the Sunshine Coast and love it even though I live in a rusted on Liberal electorate.

    I am passionate about the environment, a firm believer in Climate Change and cannot abide corruption in any party.

    The article is based on my own observations and knowledge of the QLD political environment, and I stand by everything I wrote.

    And I genuinely fear the consequences of getting this election wrong, so yes, I advocate for a Majority Labor government, as regardless of what the greens may claim, they will NEVER be in a position to form government, in QLD, but they are in a position now to facilitate the election of an LNP/PHON COALition, and I would venture to suggest that you don’t want that any more than I do?

    Cheers 🙂

30. paul walterNovember 3, 2017 at 12:35 am

    Ok I don’t deny you have sold a good argument, but I will always remain suspicious of the ALP after NSW and Lennonist Tasmania in the first decade and then Anna Bligh. I was specifically concerned with your contention that the Qld Premier “may” not be interested in Adani, but I’ve been there before, groundhog day. You also must be tolerant of my scepticism after the Gretchist union raid of Cash/ Turnbull that came unstuck last week in such spectacular and stomach turning fashion.

    As Stephen Tardrew says…

31. Michael TaylorNovember 3, 2017 at 12:45 am

    Interesting article, Truthie. You’ve added a perspective I hadn’t considered. Nonetheless, if I lived in Queensland I would have been voting for Labor – Adani or no Adani – and putting PHON last.

    As much as I despise Adani, I despise PHON with a much greater intensity. Who can do the most damage for Queensland (or Australia): Adani or Pauline Hanson? I’d say the latter.

    And by the way … good to see you back.

    But your reappearance on the same day as John Lord’s is sooooo suspicious. Go on … admit it … you and John are the same person, aren’t you? Go on … admit it. ?

32. Glenn BarryNovember 3, 2017 at 1:10 am

    @ Truth Seeker – wonderful summary of the QLD circumstances and clearly elucidates what I speculated is the Labor Govts position – between a rock and a hard place.

    I’ve only in the last two days seen Tim Nichols on TV, I immediately placed him into the same category as Bronwyn Bishop and took an immediate dislike to save time.

    Like you I am also dismayed at the green tactics on this – they’re grandstanding with potentially disastrous outcome and perhaps headed for a pyrrhic victory with all to suffer the consequences 🙁

    MSM in this country has me feeling despair and Murdoch/IPA influence is completely unconscionable

33. Gary MickelburNovember 3, 2017 at 3:58 am

    Newman and Seeney (LNP) signed a 30 year agreement with Adani when they were in caretaker mode…it would cost Queensland $billions in compensation if they are stopped, and make the State bankrupt. You can research International Mining Agreements on Google…..For the most part the Contract with Adani is commercial in confidence where the current Labor Government can’t publicly talk about its terms and conditions. The Adani Contract contains a loss of profits clause , meaning if the State Government pulls out of the Contract for what ever reason , Adani has the right to sue the Queensland Government for lost future earnings – meaning potentially Queensland could or would be sued for Billions of dollars. In other words a Judge decides….It doesn’t matter what party is in power, none can break the contract without sending Queensland broke. That is entirely the fault of the LNP.

34. Truth SeekerNovember 3, 2017 at 6:29 am

    Hi Keith, and thanks for your comment.

    Yes, all true, and sadly when you have ministers like Canavan who, when standing down, due to his own citizenship questions, said it was an honour to serve… Not his constituents, but the fossil fuel industry, we can clearly see the problems we face!

    Cheers.

35. KeithNovember 3, 2017 at 7:23 am

    Trish

    Science doesn’t lie .. we are on a trajectory to extinction with a business as usual process which is what Adani and deforestation provide.
    They are not Green issues.

    2017 is not an El Nino year; yet, we stumble from one extreme event to another.
    We have had 40 films of devastation since 23June’17 till currently, reference below. The events filmed comment on the number of deaths caused; houses destroyed by flooding, houses burnt, businesses destroyed etc. Post Maria it has been estimated that 900 people have died as a result of health impacts on Puerto Rico. For example, only 30% of power has only been restored to Puerto Rico meaning that persons needing dialysis in remote parts of the island were not able to receive it, the only water available to many people was polluted.

    Science says that for every extra degree of warmth in the atmosphere there is a extra 7% of water vapour that can be carried. Inches of rain can fall in a very short time frame (2.5 centimetres equals 1 inch).

    A recent Report states that 9 milion people die from pollution per year, a good proportion being caused by the use of fossil fuels.

    Instead of providing a carbon bank, the Amazon in a recent study was found to be expelling more CO2 than it is storing.
    Oceans are warming, in Tropical areas, warmer waters means more energy goes into Tropical storms which then can form into hurricanes/cyclones/typhoons.

    Included:
    0:34 Nicaragua floods
    3:09 Ecuador: Quito hailstorm and flash flood
    6:42 Argentina: Formosa,Villa Mercedes & Cordoba hailstorms
    15:38 Colombia: Timbiqui flood
    17:36 Bulgaria: Burgas flood
    19:12 Greece: Crete flash flood
    22:39 Italy wildfires
    25:30 Global temperature news inc. The USA & Greenland

    A restatement:

    Scientists are saying that the change in climate we are witnessing now since the Industrial Revolution, previously took thousands of years to develop.

36. HarquebusNovember 3, 2017 at 7:33 am

    It is my understanding that most of the operations at Adani will be automated. A lot of environmental damage for no benefit except to a very few.
    In my opinion, we should be eliminating jobs and not creating nor replacing them with robots. High unemployment is one measure needed to reduce environmental destruction.
    Power down, go home and make do or do without.

37. KeithNovember 3, 2017 at 9:06 am

    I was pleased that Labor won the last election in Queensland; but now, it doesn’t matter whether the LNP, LNP +PHON, Labor, Labor +PHON, or Labor + Greens win the next election.

    In the US, the Trump mob are also in the process of shutting down anything that relates to tackling climate change.

    As stated by an elderly climate scientist, we are financing our own deaths through subsidising fossil fuel companies, i.e. developments such as Adani.

38. sandrasearleNovember 3, 2017 at 9:40 am

    Hi Truthie, good to see you back on deck again (we’ll sort of anyway).
    There is, as I have read just recently somewhere a big fat elephant in the room with all of the Adani deal and it was that the Newman govt. at the time we’re the ones who signed the deal not the ALP.
    I wasn’t aware that this was the case so my guess that this has been a closely guarded deal and this information should be made more publicly aware.
    Now realising that the right wing Murdoch press is really in charge of the MSM in Qld, there would seem this sort of information should be got out now by the rest of us who really care what happens to the real truth.
    AP has been put between a dirty big bolder and a hard place even more because she not only has to deal with the minority govt she is trying to run, but she must also have the threat of a very nasty compensation clause somewhere buried deep in the original deal with Adani. I would love to know if the latter is the case for real, so if anyone can spill the beans on this I’m sure the rest of us here in Australia would gladly share this vital information.
    Hopefully there is enough time to rebalance the political scene before it is taken down that very slippery slope once more.

39. Truth SeekerNovember 3, 2017 at 10:43 am

    Hi Sandra 🙂 and thanks for all your support and kind words.

    Yes, I too have heard many rumours about Newman’s involvement and a possible compensation clause, which wouldn’t surprise me in the least, especially after what we saw in Victoria, with the huge compensation payout as a result of the contract signed by the mendacious (and some would say corrupt) Naptime government!, five minutes before the election!

    These LNPee’ers will never miss an opportunity to hand over loads of public monies to their mates and/or corporate donors, as in fact Turdball did when he gave his neighbour, and Murdoch’s nephew a cool $10 mill for untested and unproven “Rainmaking” Technology while the Howard mob were in caretaker mode, which by the way has, to date, not produced one drop of rain!

    The other problem that AP has to keep in mind, is that she may yet have to once again rely on the Katters, to keep the LNP out!

    So she’s between a dirty big rock, and an extremely hard place, and all we can do is try, against the odds, to get the truth out there!

    Cheers. 🙂

40. Truth SeekerNovember 3, 2017 at 10:51 am

    Hi Keith, and thanks for your comments.
    I agree that the science certainly paints a dire picture for the future of humanity, but I have to say that I think it will make a huge difference whether Labor, the LNP, PHON etc or various combinations of them get elected in QLD, and as far as the T(Party)Rump is concerned, most of the states don’t care what he says or does, as they have already committed to go it alone if they have to, and the recent extreme weather events, have only reinforced their resolve!

    Cheers 🙂

41. Truth SeekerNovember 3, 2017 at 10:57 am

    Hi Frank, and thanks for your take on this very emotive issue.

    I very much doubt that the Chinese will be willing to bankroll Adani, when it is clear that there are many ??? over their business and financial models, which include the Caymans etc…

    And seeing as the FNQ councils are not committing a cent until they see an “Australian” contract for the financing of the mine, it seems unlikely that they would agree to pay for an airstrip for Chinese FIFO workers, but these will be moot points if the LNPee’ers get back in, as they will do everything they can to finance it themselves… With OUR money!

    Cheers ☺

42. HotspringerNovember 3, 2017 at 11:10 am

    I might find this apologia for Labor’s behaviour a tad more convincing if Palaszczuk didn’t give Adani all the water they want for 60 (sixty) years, a three year tax holiday and resumed some 3,500 hectares of agricultural land for Adani’s railway. There may be some worthy independents in some seats, however, if you oppose Adani, vote Greens.

43. Truth SeekerNovember 3, 2017 at 11:12 am

    Hey Migs ☺

    Thanks mate for all your support over the years, it means a lot.

    And I agree, that PHON is by far the most dangerous, albeit STUPID, party on the current Australian political landscape, which is saying something when we suffer an embarrassment of… Embarrassments in the Dangerous and STUPID stakes, including but not limited to the SA Xylophone band and Corgi’s mob!

    And with regards to John, I’m definitely not him, merely a close, plastic facsimile 😉

    Keep up the good work mate

    Cheers ☺

44. paul walterNovember 3, 2017 at 11:13 am

    The Gary Mickelbur comment- no one seems to have elaborated on that, yet it strikes me that it is at the crux of this subject…the most intriguing posting on this page.

    It seems to confirm the notion that we are no more than subjects of an FTA dictatorship, hence discussions like this are irrelevant.

    If it is true, why has it not been tested before a court, or do FTA rules overrule even legal examination based on reason of a given issue?

45. Truth SeekerNovember 3, 2017 at 11:37 am

    Hi Gary, and thanks for that, it’s great information, and it adds further weight to AP’s position, and puts the blame right where it should be… At the feet of the LNPee’ers!

    So really the only hope is that the finance is not forthcoming, from any source, in which case any gov cannot/should not be held liable for compensation!

    It should also take the wind out of the greens sails, with their self-serving nonsense… But I won’t hold my breath on that one.

    Cheers ☺

46. Truth SeekerNovember 3, 2017 at 11:38 am

    Hi Glenn, and thanks for your comment and feedback ☺

    Yes, I didn’t like Nichols when he was Newman’s treasurer, and I like him even less now, as he tries to distance himself from his own actions and policy directions of only three years ago.

    He is a LIAR and in typical LNPee’er fashion will sell us out ASAP!

    Gary’s post below, puts further flesh on the bones of my article, and shows the mendacious and self serving nature of the claims being spread by extreme and vested interests!

    Vote Labor, and hope that NO finance for Adani is forthcoming!

    Cheers ☺

47. Truth SeekerNovember 3, 2017 at 11:54 am

    Hi Matters Not ☺

    Yes, many changes, and I do hope you’re right about the ex-LNPee’er, Steve Dixon, who is now the QLD leader of PHON, although, he’s been an incumbent in Buderim for a long time, so I’m not as confident about his demise as you are.

    WRT the greens input, I hope you read Gary’s post below, which shines a light on why it’s imperative that Labor is returned with an outright majority!

    Cheers

48. KeithNovember 3, 2017 at 12:02 pm

    Gary

    It would appear that Newman and Seeney have signed a death warrant for multitudes of people.

    Quote:

    “The Paris climate agreement goal of limiting global warming to 1.5 to 2 degrees Celsius (ºC) is well above temperatures experienced during the Holocene — period of human settlement over the last 11,700 years — and is far from safe because “if such temperature levels are allowed to long exist they will spur “slow” amplifying feedbacks… which have potential to run out of humanity’s control.””

    From:

    http://www.climatecodered.org/2017/07/paris-15-2c-target-far-from-safe-say.html

    The Agency 350.org is so named as it considers emissions above 350 ppm to be unsafe.

    Professor Kevin Anderson stated when the Paris Agreement was signed that the aspirational temperature 1.5C above pre-industrial times would not be met.

    NASA says we will run out of enough fresh water as aquifers are being drained fast.

    Higher temperatures have been found by a study to provide less nutrients by a recent study.

    Whether it has anything to do with climate change, pesticides, bacterial infestation, or whatever else; bee populations are in decline.

    There a good reasons why the US military keep a tab on climate change and its impact on populations.

49. Truth SeekerNovember 3, 2017 at 1:03 pm

    Hi again Gary, would you mind if I repost your comment on my blog for future reference?

    Cheers 🙂

50. paul walterNovember 3, 2017 at 1:57 pm

    Truth Seeker, remember, though the ALP has better form on this it is not without blemish either.

    I can recall when the monster TPC was up for discussion in the Senate the ALP voted with the government not to release details. The only comprehensive critique came from the Greens Senator Whish-Wilson.

    I think the subject is interesting, but as an opportunity for discovery of how the country seems to have been taken over by foreign interests, NOT as an excuse for Greens bashing while the real perpetrators escape under cover of darkness.

    Let;s start with the IPA and Andrew Robb rather than indulge in the blaming of fellow victims.

51. Truth SeekerNovember 3, 2017 at 2:34 pm

    Hi Paul.

    After doing some research of my own, after reading Gary’s comment, it is clear that Newman and Seeney did to QLD what Naptime did to Victoria!

    Which means that AP inherited a contract that she cannot walk away from, or publicly oppose. Now the responsibility for that lays fairly and squarely at the feet of the LNP, and I agree entirely that the IPA and Robb have an awful lot to answer for, for this and other treasonous policy directions, but for anyone to claim , for the sake of personal and political gain and expediency, that the state ALP are as BAD as the LNP for their “Support” of Adani , and advocate putting them last, is now exposed as a complete and utter self serving LIE, and if Labor loses the election, the perpetrators of that LIE will be directly responsible for the dire consequences that will be thrust upon us and our children/grand children, along with the country and the well being of this fragile planet that we all call home!

    so our choices appear simple, either support Labor and hope that there is no finance forthcoming from anywhere, so that the mine and Adani fall over of their own volition, or vote against Labor and either see the mine financed with OUR money, and wear the consequences or have the contract cancelled and pay Adani billions of $$$ compensation, for the sake of yet another dodgy LNP contract!

    Cheers

52. Matters NotNovember 3, 2017 at 2:43 pm

    Gary Mickelbur at 3:58 am re:

    Newman and Seeney (LNP) signed a 30 year agreement with Adani when they were in caretaker mode

    Presumably you have a link for that extraordinary claim (and it’s not just fake news). Google seems not to know about it.

53. diannaartNovember 3, 2017 at 2:54 pm

    The Newman revelation is not so surprising given the antics in Victoria where last minute desperation by the Napthine government forced through another attempt for another privatised free-way development at the expense of the many years of neglect, railways. Good to see it pointed out by Gary Mickelbur.

    So, the LNP inserted another stitch up to implement their pro-fossil fuel policy into a Labor government.

    SO, where is Bill Shorten? Is he ever going to take a clear stand on climate change? The demise of coal power in favour of alternatives favoured economically around the globe or even the future of Queensland’s tourist industry AKA the environment?

    Anna sure could’ve used the support, playing with a single seat majority and having to placate the Katters (is it even possible to placate Katters?).

    Turnbull seems to be managing to pass extreme right-wing policy in Canberra on a shoe-string majority. Maybe he can give Anna some advice. 😛

    However, I would rather see federal Labor actually stand for the future for Australians, the environment (which includes the planet BTW) and the good of the people – not just the mining developers.

    C’mon Bill, give Anna a helping hand.

54. Truth SeekerNovember 3, 2017 at 3:03 pm

    Matters Not, Gary is right, there are articles which I have seen this morning, which also implicate Andrew Robb and Abbott as party’s to the negotiations. here are two, but there are more, you just have to search for them

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-01/senior-qld-bureaucrats-suspicious-about-adani-deal/6585028

    http://www.queenslandcountrylife.com.au/story/3367983/newmans-splurge-on-adani-mine-outrages-clermont/

55. Truth SeekerNovember 3, 2017 at 3:06 pm

    Hi Diannaart,
    Sadly the only thing that can stop Adani is if it falls over of its own volition!

    Apparently this is another anti Australian deal that Andrew Robb had his grubby miits all over!

56. paul walterNovember 3, 2017 at 3:30 pm

    Sorry, not wishing to be negative, BUT:

    https://theconversation.com/why-are-we-still-pursuing-the-adani-carmichael-mine-85100

    The key para involves one Cameron Milner and echoes other reports about a degree of support for QLD Labor at the last election from Adani.

    Yes, I know Newman and Seeney are far the greater offenders and have left a nasty booby trap for the ALP. I have, more or less, said so myself, above… also (possibly) Turnbull and Murdoch are involved according to another source my old brain can’t recall details of.

    But the truth of the saga seems obscured by opaqueness and the Conversation article raises a lot of persistently asked enviro and economic issues that seem not to have been answered effectively over time.

57. Matters NotNovember 3, 2017 at 3:31 pm

    Truth Seeker, thanks for those two links – But I remain unconvinced.

    Re the East West link in Victoria, a perfectly legal contract was signed, sealed and delivered as it were before the State election (albeit not by much). Certainly it was not signed in the caretaker period.

    In your links I read about intentions and the like but see no hard evidence. That commercial in confidence prevents Labor from acknowledging its existence simply doesn’t ring true (To put it mildly.)

58. Gary MickelburNovember 3, 2017 at 3:32 pm

    Hi Truth Seeker 🙂 Feel free to post my comment when and where you wish to do so. Cheers.

59. Kaye LeeNovember 3, 2017 at 3:43 pm

    I’m confused.

    I can find no reference to the Greens suggesting that voters should put the ALP last. They have said that they will not work with the LNP or PHON but are open to working with the ALP.

    I can find no reference to any 30 year agreement with Adani or a government contract with a loss of profits clause.

    Can anyone provide links?

60. Truth SeekerNovember 3, 2017 at 4:18 pm

    Hi Kaye 🙂

    In my original reply to you i said “So we have the greens saying that Labor is as bad as the LNP, with many “self declared” greens supporter advocating that ALL pro Adani parties should be put last, some even advocating that non greens voters look for anti Adani independents”

    Note the “Self declared”.

    I don’t know whether they are genuine greens supporters or not, but the general theme of the greens campaign is to paint Labor as as much the villain in their support for Adani as the LNP and I feel that is is a very dishonest, disingenuous and self serving approach, and a very dangerous one as well.

    Hope that clarifies it for you to some degree?

    WRT the contract signed, there is information out there, although commercial in confidence would hide much of it from public scrutiny, including compensation clauses etc, but I did find some indication that Robb and Abbott were involved, and we all know that Robb has form in these areas, but sadly low blood sats, badly affect my concentration levels and focus (One of the reasons for my extended hiatus 🙁 ), so it’s hard for me to do too much by way of in depth investigations etc.

    Cheers

61. Truth SeekerNovember 3, 2017 at 4:20 pm

    Thanks Gary 🙂

62. Truth SeekerNovember 3, 2017 at 4:46 pm

    I can’t understand why it wouldn’t “ring True”, when Robb in particular, and the LNP in general have form in signing shit agreements, as demonstrated by their enthusiasm for signing the TPP, and all the other FTA’s, not to mention their willingness to sign up to the ISDS provisions that leave us wide open to being sued by corporations that don’t like our laws, or any legislation that they deem as detrimental to their bottom line???

    To me, there’s no doubt, when it comes to the LNP!

63. paul walterNovember 3, 2017 at 4:47 pm

    I am glad Kaye Lee added her comment, I was a bit puzzled at the sentence myself. As Don Dunstan memorably once said, non conservatives squabbling ls like children fighting over the spoils of defeat. But I do agree that the Greens are just curious as to why the ALP would support more neo liberal rubbish.

    Of course, the Greens themselves are not above questioning after their attempted repudiation of Lee Rhiannon and a credible critiquing of ecology and pol economics…my theory is they have been driven from ecology activism by the strengthening neoliberal regime (beginning with the Gunns legal attack on Brown and co a decade ago) and are now scouting for identity issues instead. Their catcalling of Labor is as infantile as Labor’s catcallings of them. Newspapers like the Guardian have been forced on a similar path as to constructive info starvation, is my hunch.

    However, Kaye Lee, I think if enough commercial in confidence, FOI and HIDDEN legal clauses re FTA agreements come into play, it is indeed quite plausible that Palaszczuk has had to operate with a gun at her head.

    I understand this to be what the absent Gary Micklebur was/is trying to say, I refer you to his comment earlier in the thread.

    I really must leave now.

    A pie is deteriorating in the oven and an FB friend has referred me to a report involving an assembled multitude, over four hundred people, at the launch of a new mobile phone thingie in Adelaide anyway.

64. Kaye LeeNovember 3, 2017 at 4:51 pm

    Just a question thrown out there for everyone Truthie. I never expect or require instant response but I find I learn a lot from discussions here.

    I am looking myself but I don’t really understand why we would sign a contract with a loss of profit clause when we aren’t signing them up to provide a service for us. It would be different if we had hired a private company to build something for us and then pulled out of the deal.

    I agree the FTAs were signed in haste with bad results for us. They wanted the headlines and threw away negotiations that had been going on for quite a while. But Adani has nothing to do with FTAs and we don’t have one with India yet.

    And, whilst I am disappointed with Labor’s stance on asylum seekers and Adani, they are infinitely preferable to the LNP. PHON are just silly. People considering voting for Pauline’s party should be forced to watch her asking questions in Senate Estimates. It’s humiliating. My preference would be a Labor government supported by Greens. I don’t know about Independents but Katters scare me too.

    I would like to see the Greens increase their association with and advocacy for farmers – they should be a natural fit with both helping and learning from each other about sustainable agriculture.

65. paul walterNovember 3, 2017 at 5:08 pm

    https://books.google.com.au/books?id=FHE3DwAAQBAJ&pg=PT207&lpg=PT207&dq=does+ISDS+apply+to+Adani&source=bl&ots=ak0lHNQoL4&sig=Bj845tttfI3AWxEao6V78F535wQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjP3dSc3qHXAhXBk5QKHa6UB_UQ6AEIPzAE#v=onepage&q=does%20ISDS%20apply%20to%20Adani&f=false

    This may apply?

66. Matters NotNovember 3, 2017 at 5:11 pm

    Much of the discussion over the last few hours centres on the existence of a secret contract.

    While *commercial in confidence * applies to the detail of commercial contracts, broadly defined, I can’t see how it can be used to cover up the existence of a contract. But I am not a lawyer.

    However, if it does exist I can’t for the life of me understand how it hasn’t been leaked. particularly when it was supposedly the work of Jeff Seeney’s Department with Treasury not involved. Not credible. Remember also there’s lots of opposition within the Labor Government itself and the had three tears to do just that.

67. corvusboreusNovember 3, 2017 at 6:10 pm

    Truth Seeker,
    I have often heard / read ‘Greens’ (or affiliates) saying that Labor are just as bad as the el-en-(effen)-pees, .
    I have also (all-too-recently) heard / read ‘Labor’ (or affliliates) saying that Greens are not just ‘dogs’ but ‘selfish, vindictive, brain-dead morons’.
    None of it seems, to me, to be particularly truthful or helpful to societally negotiatory discourse, but akin brand-based sledging.
    Such seems to be the nature of party politics, and the principle reason why I tend to shun such.

    I understand and respect the pragmatics in the premier of a minority state government not making vocal opposition to a federally approved project that the pervading spin insists will produce ‘thousands of jobs’ in regional Queensland.
    I also accept as viable the idea that Palaszczuks government is, to a degree, strategically stalling in likely anticipation of the whole dodgy project floundering of it’s own accord (due to it being just so plain out phuqqen wrong on so many levels).

    There are, however, a few aspects of the Qld Labor govt Adani negotiations that do furrow my brow.a bit; namely a few ‘loose ends’ within water protection provisions, including exemptions from newly (Dec 2016) amended water laws.
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/apr/05/irreversible-consequences-adani-coalmine-granted-unlimited-water-access-for-60-years , https://www.dnrm.qld.gov.au/water/catchments-planning/water-reform

    I also disagree with the ‘royalty holiday’ being offered, ( http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/mining/townsville-council-redundancies-fund-185-million-contribution-towards-an-airstrip-for-adanis-carmichael-coal-mine/news-story/9e76a61f59714797c6c620d7e7bce863 ), particularly since residents of Townsville have already had to suffer the sacrifice of existing jobs and services to the promises of Adani ( https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/03/adan-queensland-dispute-mine-royalties ).

    That said, I do not wish for, and will try to help achieve, the defeat of Queensland Labor in the upcoming election, partly because I do not live in Queensland, but mostly because their hand at the helm of QLD is clearly the least bad of the viable options available.

68. nurses1968November 3, 2017 at 6:27 pm

    A good time line by Environmental Law Australia

    Carmichael Coal (“Adani”) Mine Cases in Queensland courts

69. Kaye LeeNovember 3, 2017 at 6:50 pm

    Interesting link paul. Here is the actual agreement with India from 1999 and it is article 7, as your link suggests, that could be problematic but I am not in a position to understand it well enough to determine if that is the case.

    “Neither Contracting Party shall nationalise, expropriate or subject to measures
    having effect equivalent to nationalisation or expropriation (hereinafter referred to as
    “expropriation”) the investments of investors of the other Contracting Party except for
    a public purpose, on a non-discriminatory basis, in accordance with its laws and
    against fair and equitable compensation.”

    http://investmentpolicyhub.unctad.org/Download/TreatyFile/154

    It has nothing to do with Newman and Seeney of course. I cannot see why anything they may have signed would be commercial in confidence. It’s not like people are tendering for something. I know they are using that excuse for the loans/grants that people are applying for from our various funds like NAIF and some water fund (I see Nichols is promising more dam inquiries…gawd it gets old).

70. Kaye LeeNovember 3, 2017 at 9:29 pm

    Annastacia got wind of a smear campaign coming from Canberra which has now backfired on them.

    Apparently her partner works for PwC and worked on Adani’s application for the NAIF loan. When she heard Canberra were preparing their dirt files she straight away reiterated her refusal to administer any such loan which, because of the way the NAIF is set up, has to come through the states. Suck eggs to the smear campaigners. You just shot yourself in the foot and well done Annastacia.

    https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/politics/queensland/premier-to-veto-adani-loan-following-alleged-lnp-smear-campaign-20171103-p4ywss.html

    Update: Apparently the loan can come through other means and Nicholls refuses to agree to not administer the loan should the “independent” body approve it. So Queenslanders, think about how much you want Australian government funds to subsidise the profits of Indian billionaires.

71. Truth SeekerNovember 3, 2017 at 9:54 pm

    Yes Kaye, the LNPee’ers just can’t help themselves!

    But I have to say, that’s about the third or fourth time this week that I’ve heard her say the exact same thing WRT the $900 million NAIF proposal, and I also read a legal opinion that said that the funding for the railway was effectively dead in the water because Labor has refused to approve it through the state office of NAIF, but the MSM seem a bit hard of hearing when it comes to Labor commitments, and only take notice when the feds once again make idiots of themselves!

    Funny about that… NOT!

72. Kaye LeeNovember 3, 2017 at 10:15 pm

    Truthie,

    That has always been their stance, not just in the campaign. They don’t agree that government money should be used and if the Feds want to do it, they must own it.

    When they gave approval in April 2016, Dr Lynham said there would be no dredging at Abbot Point until Adani demonstrates financial closure and Queensland taxpayers will not fund infrastructure for the project.

73. Truth SeekerNovember 3, 2017 at 10:29 pm

    Yes Kaye, that was the gist of what she said, and you’re right, she has been saying this for quite some time, not only the few times I’ve heard it this week, it just seems strange that they all seem surprised by her statement this time in defense of herself and her partner, like it’s the first time they’ve heard it???

74. Trish CorryNovember 3, 2017 at 10:30 pm

    “saying that Greens are not just ‘dogs’ but ‘selfish, vindictive, brain-dead morons’.”

    Yes. Yes I did and I’ll say it again tomorrow with no shame. Not only is it true, but any party who is actively trying to unseat the Labor party with lie after lie, when the other option is LNP PHON, for their own gain in just 3 seats, are dogs and vindictive etc etc

    I refer you to my comment about how I have broken down and cried about this turning into a LNP PHON win, which had no hope in hell before the Greens Labor bashing campaign.

    Unless you have lived under Joh and Newman you really have absolutely no idea how terrifying they were and are.

    I posted a poem above. If a mine that hasn’t even started yet is more important than all the things I list (and that’s a TINY list!) Then the so called Greens left is a very sick ideology indeed. Very sick. I condemn them with every fibre of my being.

75. Matters NotNovember 3, 2017 at 10:40 pm

    Yes Shaun Drabsch, her current partner, once worked for Peter Beattie and now works for PWC. His current project involves issues that involves Adani. (Strange that?) What also might be of interest is Ron Watson who also worked for Beattie and is now the public face of Adani when it comes to MSM responses.

    Drabsch and Watson know each other rather well. As does Anastasia. It’s almost incestuous.

    There’s a lot more dirt that could be dug. And probably will.

    But how low do they want to go?

76. Matters NotNovember 3, 2017 at 11:05 pm

    There’s little chance that The Greens will win any seats in the coming state election. Perhaps their best chance lies in beating Deputy Premier Jackie Trad in South Brisbane which was once held by ex Premier Anna Bligh. But I don’t think it’s going to happen.

    Labor in Queensland and elsewhere invariably assert (at this stage of the electoral cycle) that they will only govern in their own right. Vow to be cleanskins only. Pure and all that. Yet the historical evidence suggest otherwise. Try the ACT and New Zealand as recent examples. If it means holding the reins of power – a path strewn with broken glass will not stop them.

    Does anyone here believe otherwise?

77. Michael TaylorNovember 3, 2017 at 11:28 pm

    And with regards to John, I’m definitely not him, merely a close, plastic facsimile ?

    Truthie, if you’re going to do that then at least chose someone better looking.

    Like me, perhaps. ?

78. Truth SeekerNovember 3, 2017 at 11:40 pm

    Ah Migs, you are a bad boy LOL 😀 But it’s really just all about the beard! 😉

    Well, my four poster bed and my oxygen concentrator is calling mate, so I’ll wish you a hearty good night 🙂

    Cheers :-p

79. corvusboreusNovember 4, 2017 at 6:33 am

    Trish,
    If you wish to toxify public discourse by slinging abusive pejoratives, that is your prerogative.
    Similar applies to the recount of tears past shed, and the recitation of poor poetry.
    Such bilious expectorating and cacophonous caterwauling is no doubt cathartic, if not overly convincing to observers.

    Myself, I tend to give greater credence to those offering inputs backed by verified information, preferably reinforced with evidential citations, especially when such is presented in relatively rational and reasonable terms.
    Then again, I’m also one of those people who heeds the warnings of eminently qualified and respected scientists when they say that increasingly manifest evidence indicates that certain human activities (eg digging up and incinerating metric phuq-tonnes of coal) have dangerously/critically destabilised the climate systems of our biospheric habitat..

    Ps Good luck in your elections, I hope that Qld Labor is returned to government.

80. JohnoNovember 4, 2017 at 7:01 am

    Trish, your feelings towards the greens go hand in hand with Malcolm Roberts et al, at least you are not calling them terrorists,..yet.

81. Kaye LeeNovember 4, 2017 at 8:26 am

    I understand the prospect of an LNP PHON government would be terrifying. I also understand and support the opposition to opening vast new coal mines – certainly even more terrifying a prospect than politicians who will pass.

    I ask again, what lies have the Greens told?

    It is true that the major party in government will be either Labor or the LNP. That should not mean that no-one else can run. Surely you would prefer to work with Greens than PHON….or maybe not?

    If the progressive parties could learn how to work together instead of spitting poison at each other we might have some chance in this country.

82. KyranNovember 4, 2017 at 8:40 am

    Putting aside the political machinations, there are that many holes in this ‘proposal’, you could drive a large automated vehicle through them.

    The most insidious thing in the whole saga is the Adani modus operandi of recruiting so many ‘political’ players through gifts, junkets and trinkets. The list of political figures who have accepted Adani largesse is simply staggering – at all levels of government.

    The ‘coal is good’, ‘clean coal’, ‘poverty breaking coal’ myths have all been discredited. The only ‘plus’ of this grubby little deal seems to be the point that is hammered home time and again. Jobs, jobs jobs.

    Not the thousands of jobs imperilled in tourism or environmental protection, let alone the pending demise of the GBR. Not the hundreds of jobs that will be lost in ‘competing’ coal operations in NSW. Not the hundreds of jobs in local councils, lost to subsidise the building of an airport for what appears to be fictional FIFO workers. This article on the current ‘scandal’ cites Mr Nicholls;

    “”If, as the Premier claims, all necessary conflict of interest measures are correct and above board, why has she put thousands of jobs at risk with this extraordinary backflip?” he said.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-03/premier-annastacia-palaszczuk-veto-qld-government-adani-brisbane/9117594

    Our ever sleepy media never questioned his reference to ‘thousands of jobs’, nor did they question Canavan’s repetition of this lie.

    If you look at the time line in the article, released by Palaszczuk, her partner accepted a job with PWC on 16/6/2015, with an assurance by PWC that he would not be involved in matters relating to Queensland infrastructure. This was referred to the Integrity Commissioner, and was ‘cleared’ on the 17/7/2015. In May, 2016, PWC assigned Mr Drabsch to work on the NAIF proposal, which was submitted in December, 2016. Why is it only coming out now? Why didn’t PWC refer its assignment of Mr Drabsch to the IC in May, 2015? There was no way, given their assurance in June, 2015 and its referral to the IC, they could say they were unaware of the perceived conflict of interest.

    And speaking of conflict of interest, more than half of the board of NAIF have already admitted they have perceived or real conflicts of interest that may, or may not, see them recusing themselves from any vote on Adani’s proposal.

    As for this commercial in confidence garbage, any reasonable assessment would allow for a company to redact those matters pertaining to matters that may, potentially, reveal their financial structure to their competitors. Good luck with that. Most of Adani’s sensitive stuff holidays in the Caymans. What would not, under any circumstance, be subject to such a clause would be the undertakings given for ‘reparation’ of the site, given Adani’s atrocious record for such environmental destruction on a global basis.

    This whole saga is a breach of trust. Adani are behaving like they have always behaved. It is the trust between the voters and their politicians that has been breached. The removal of so many of the safeguards designed to protect us from such breaches merely underscores the desire of politicians to put their jobs ahead of everyone else’s.
    Thank you Truth Seeker and commenters. This is a fascinating read, all the more for the comments! Take care

83. KeithNovember 4, 2017 at 9:06 am

    Trish

    There are some things that I agree with you about … such as; PHON are the pits, and the Newman mob were extreme to the point of being dangerous.

    But, we are living at a time when the existence of man kind is at stake.
    We buy insurance to protect our belongings which could be houses, cars etc; yet, the prospect of a runaway climate is becoming very real with the continuation of a business as usual concept operating. The risks of a runaway climate are becoming greater with no change to a business as usual paradigm; equals no insurance to combat a runaway climate.
    The UN just prior to the next COP meeting in Bonn has stated that Nations are not fulfilling their promises made. At present, Australia has scuttled its promise.

    Bru Pearce, in the short film referenced below displays how #observed# temperature has been changing on a bell curve showing warmer temperature moving 2 sigma points or 2 standard deviations at the extremity. It is a mathematical interpretation of what is occurring, not an ideological one. An old reference which displays what is actually going on. Temperature has continued to rise beyond the cut off point of Pearce’s graph.

    Anton Vaks researched how temperature reacts in a permafrost area, variable permafrost area, and non permafrost area in cave structures.
    His team found that permafrost begins to thaw at 1.5C above pre-Industrialt temperature levels. Already tundra is thawing displayed, by melt ponds. The methane explosions on the Yamal Peninsula of Siberia are certainly not a good sign.

    Just two examples of the tens of thousands of research papers (per Powell et al).

    The Arctic and Antarctica are the thermostat of Earth, once sea ice is lost on the Arctic Ocean extreme temperatures follow.
    The trend lines for sea ice volume and sea ice extent have been going down, displayed by data from satellites since 1980.

    There is nothing ideological about using objective data as Bru Pearce has provided; or, researching a hypothesis as Anton Vaks et al have done.

    If Newman and Seeney did sign a contract with Adani as suggested by Gary; then, they can be considered to be the enemy of human kind and all of the biosphere.

84. Matters NotNovember 4, 2017 at 9:21 am

    Re climate change and the latest report from the US:

    The Trump administration released a dire scientific report Friday calling human activity the dominant driver of global warming, a conclusion at odds with White House decisions to withdraw from a key international climate accord, champion fossil fuels and reverse Obama-era climate policies. …

    This is a federal government report whose contents completely undercut their policies, completely undercut the statements made by senior members of the administration,” said Phil Duffy, director of the Woods Hole Research Center …

    “I think this report is basically the most comprehensive climate science report in the world right now,” said Robert Kopp, a climate scientist at Rutgers who is an expert on sea-level rise and served as one of the report’s lead authors.

    It affirms that the United States is already experiencing more extreme heat and rainfall events and more large wildfires in the West, that more than 25 coastal U.S. cities are already experiencing more flooding, and that seas could rise by between 1 and 4 feet by the year 2100,

    And Pruitt allowed it out.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/11/03/trump-administration-releases-report-finds-no-convincing-alternative-explanation-for-climate-change/?utm_term=.21f27c229e5b

85. Truth SeekerNovember 4, 2017 at 11:28 am

    Corvusboreus, thanks for your comment.

    I do agree with you WRT “Brand-based sledging”, but much of it is born out of the frustration of being constantly bombarded by Statements you know to be either dishonest, disingenuous or just blatantly misleading, based more on a party or individuals desire to further their own personal and/or political ambitions, than a genuine attempt to inform.
    That’s not to justify in any way either the perpetrator, nor those seeking retaliation for said lies, misleading claims etc.

    And I fully understand your need to “Shun such”, which in itself presents a wider problem, as you are not alone in that, and as a blogger for a number of years, I can honestly say there is a lot of political “Burnout” in the community, even amongst those that, like me, consider themselves political tragics.

    Many that I know, that are long term bloggers, have had to take time out from commenting, as the constant lies and abuse from our “alleged” leaders is actually affecting peoples mental health, making them feel desperate, hopeless and depressed.

    Sadly from my observations, this dishonest and abusive style of politics, started under Howard, and then Abbott turned it into an art-form, looking straight down the lens of a camera and just lying through his teeth, and supporting the “Ditch the witch” campaigns etc, and in the process, destroying any level of respect that the positions they hold used to warrant!

    For myself, I have realised over the last few years, that I have no compunction in rubbishing our leaders and politicians, (Mainly from the rabid right, I must admit) as not only do I not respect them, but in the case of this current lot, I totally and actively despise them more than I ever thought possible. To which a quick visit to my blog “truthseekersmusings” and a read of my satirical poems will attest 😮

    But I also am not happy with all that Labor do, and I readily accept that they are far from perfect as a party, however, it is wrong IMHO to vote based on single issues, or as a matter of blind ideology, but rather we have a responsibility to take an holistic approach to democracy, trying to determine what we, as individuals and collectively, believe is genuinely in the best interests of our local communities, the country and the longer term sustainability of the species, and vote accordingly.

    Sadly, large corporations like Adani, base everything they do on their bottom line, and what’s in the best interests of their individual businesses, and shareholders, caring little for the impacts those decisions have, taking a very myopic and short-term view of the world.

    And in conclusion, as I said, Labor are far from perfect, but I honestly believe, that they are the ONLY viable option available!

    Cheers ☺

86. Truth SeekerNovember 4, 2017 at 11:35 am

    Kyran, thanks for your comment, and feedback, and I agree, it has been a very good and enlightening conversation, and I am grateful to all the commenters, and especially Migs for giving us the forum in which to have such discussions!

    Cheers 🙂

87. KeithNovember 4, 2017 at 12:05 pm

    The Report, Matters Not referred too:

    https://science2017.globalchange.gov

88. diannaartNovember 4, 2017 at 1:29 pm

    Truthie, Kaye Lee and the rest of the wonderful AIMNers.

    I only heard about AP’s veto of the loan proposal yesterday (I think) – sticking it to the Fed’s – good on her – she has been playing the long-time game. Now, will Bill Shorten give clear support for the denial of service to Adani? His speaking out at this point in time, could/would be a game changer, Trunbull is a very weak leader, Shorten has the opportunity to define a clear difference for Labor (and while he’s at it ensure food, water and medicines are immediately sent to the 600 men living in fear on Manus – the opportunity is there also; as in Labor is not a party to deliberate starvation of people, any people).

    I agree if the LNP & PHONies gain more power or win the upcoming election it will set back Queensland in its development of sustainable resources and a sustainable environment.

    Hope this made sense, am having a difficult day today.

89. Truth SeekerNovember 4, 2017 at 9:29 pm

    Hi Diannaart 🙂

    The veto has been known for quite a while up here, but the MSM have mainly ignored anything Labor, for some time now, other than the scent of a scandal, which they are all over, so it’s not surprising that it isn’t widely known.

    The latest poll shows a TPP of 52-48 for Labor, but PHON is polling well sadly, so we’ll just have to wait and see???

    Hope you have an easier day tomorrow 🙂

    Cheers 🙂

90. Trish CorryNovember 5, 2017 at 3:16 am

    I’m not sure why Greens campaigning on the lie that Annastacia is corrupt will make QLDers vote Green. Undecided, disinterested, distrusting people will swing their vote from that info believing it to be true to One Nation. They have no idea about QLDers cos they are run from Southern states. Pauline hasn’t even arrived yet and the Greens campaign smashing Labor has had a part in a 3pt increase to PHON. No doubt about it.

    The Greens don’t care if we have a LNP PHON Govt. They know they hardly rate here at all. The fact they have not said a thing about the appalling record of LNP or how they are remain silent on what PHON will do to QLD, should have people question what their purpose on the left is. If all they care about is causing sensationalism over a mine, then they are asking people to vote for them so really important issues are ignored.

    Corvus, Regardless of your personal opinion of me or anything I write about, I have a lot of difficulty that people think the list of destructive actions by LNP listed in the poem I posted as something to be scoffed at. Elderly ripped from their care homes, ripped from friends,as homes shut down or sold, suicides as youth mental health facilities shut down, just two of the more disgusting things done by LNP.

    I simply cannot see how a mine is more important than all that pain. The destruction of people’s lives and livelihoods can’t be repaired either. I won’t apologise for being so angry about this my language is very harsh and abrasive, because what the Greens are trying to achieve by trying to remove a Labor Govt to give us LNP PHON is something to be treated with utter contempt. After what LNP did, the action from Greens is sick. Truly sick.

    I’ve had an issue with the Greens since Gillard but erred on the side of they are ok. But the last two years they have become a party purely for their own self serving gain, regardless of consequences. And the lies about Labor (never LNP) are getting worse and more brazen. I will be forced to put them on my ticket in the lower house and state elections, 3rd last, but in the senate, they get nothing. They are dead to me.

91. corvusboreusNovember 5, 2017 at 8:40 am

    Truth Seeker,
    Thank you for your considered and measured response.

    On discourse and party allegiance (+ SPORTS!(!!!).,
    I’m not going to go attempt attempt categorizations based on the ‘who fired first’ aspect of assigning provocative/retaliatory roles to participants in shit-slinging brawls around state political teams. There seems little productivity in such a difficult enterprise.
    I shun party politics not from necessity but by reasonably well-informed preference..
    Adherence to team, as part of branded flocks gathered.under colored banners, leads to a collective tribal mentality that causes individual perceptional bias, which affects the ability to accurately assess and ad-judge observed situations.
    When barracking as part of a mob, we tend to automatically cry “FOUL!” when the ‘other side’ picks up a dropped ball, then turn a deliberate blind eye (often with silent smirk) when ‘our ‘own team’ blatantly cheats to get it back..
    I try to watch sports and politics as if were an impartial referee who tried to keep up with the basic rules.
    .
    On the Qld election;
    (disclaimer) I am not a majority stakeholder in this one, I live a few hours flight south of the border ranges (and other arbitrary human delineations), on the tradition lands of different clans. This means me (no inter-state obsessive political tragic) am not fully informed on intricacies of politics conducted in lands now occupied by Bufus marinus. My interests are merely secondary-tertiary re-percussive, in context of sharing the same patch of dirt sticking out of the water lying on the surface of a rock spinning through space.
    I do know something of the semi-martial erosion of democratic liberty (and abuses of citizenry) that have gone on under regimes like Sir Joh of Gerry-mander (‘don’t you worry about that’), and Can-do!, the engineer who hated surveys and plans.
    To trio-iterate, I wish Anastacia Palaszscuk and her colleagues all the best in retaining governance.
    If, as part of their campaigning, Greens are criticising aspects of Labor policy, such should be addressed if valid, and clearly refuted with incontrovertible if false, in which case the Greens should publicly retract and cease spreading any such falsehoods (la-la ideals).
    Above all, though, I think people should make the effort to critically and sceptically cross-examine their sources of information, and stop assimilating their political ‘facts’ through twitter snippets and facebook memes.

    On the Adani Carmichael river / Galilee basin mines project (and politics attached);.
    The Corvid dictionary defines Principled Pragmatic Politics (PPP) as “the ability to stay aground in a quagmire,by keeping one foot out of the quicksand of sociopathic corruption without shifting the other into the insubstantial froth of ideological naivity.
    AP publicly vetoing any supportive intervention in the Adani-NAIF dealings is, in my view, part of a fairly solid PPP stance.
    Qld Labor cannot make many further steps, like a full veto of the project, for both political and legal reasons.
    As I said, my brow furrows (with accompanying facial tic and tooth-grind) on the water exemptions (Adani are under the scope for pollution and misappropriation elsewhere) and the ‘royalty holiday’ being offered, and I certainly wouldn’t want to be a spokesperson for Townsville City Council right now (but that’s a local government issue)..
    Basically Qld Labor have washed their hands as near-best as such coal and ink muddied waters can allow.
    Adani-Carmichael is fundamentally now a federal concern, which is another game being played on an overlapping field.

    On Truth Seeker;
    I remember your contributions from when I first started reading AIMN and occasionally adding some words.
    Your absence was noted, your presence missed, and your return welcomed..
    I am sorry to hear that your bodily health was one reason for such.
    I wish you well in the your part of our collective struggle against our biological decay..

92. corvusboreusNovember 5, 2017 at 8:51 am

    Truth Seeker,
    Thanks for the considered response.
    I hunt and pecked a fairly lengthy post, but it looks to be lost in the cyber-ether.
    I will try again after my duties are done for the day.
    Meantime, good health to you.

93. KeithNovember 5, 2017 at 9:31 am

    Trish

    You wrote “… I simply cannot see how a mine is more important than all that pain….”
    That mine has been said to be the largest potential coal mine on Earth by Four Corners. Whether that is right or not I’m not sure; prior to that it had been called the largest potential coal mine in the Southern Hemisphere.

    The two short film clips referred above by Bru Pearce and Anton Vaks were created prior to all the controversy in relation to the Carmichael mine. The distribution of temperature in Bru Pearce’s first figure shows a normal bell shaped curve which incorporates over 99% of data held within 3 standard deviations from the centre line (1951-1980). There has been a move to the warm side of the bell curve slightly beyond 5 standard deviations for the period 2001-2011. The probalility of reaching the point shown for the period 2001-2011 is 1 in 10 million. Temperatures have climbed since.

    Both represent a huge red beacon; amplifying what scientists are saying about fossil fuels needing to be left in the ground.

    Without taking into account the issue of fossil fuels usage on climate change; the export of coal to Asia in particular, causes death to millions of people from the emissions from the particulates created. The Lancet, provides quite a conservative number of people dying from emissions compared to the 9 million reported recently by the second reference.

    http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)30884-X/fulltext

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/pollution-worldwide-deaths-1.4363613

    Since Maria, there have been an estimated 900 deaths post the storm in Puerto Rico. I have a number of quotes from eminent climate scientists who very clearly state that climate change has not caused the terrible storms which hit the Caribbean and US a few months ago; # but, climate change has certainly intensified the strength of the storms #.

    Mongrel policies of the LNP, are quite a separate issue to the Adani mine.

    The LNP argue they do not want to subsidise renewables; though, they are quite happy to subsidise the mine of Adani.

    Renewables provide more employment prospects than the Adani mine and are a part solution to stave off a runaway climate.

94. Michael TaylorNovember 5, 2017 at 10:06 am

    Corvus, your comment was caught up in the butterfly net, for some unknown reason. It has now been freed.

    Our apologies for the inconvenience.

95. corvusboreusNovember 5, 2017 at 1:09 pm

    Michael Taylor,
    Thank you for the heads-up (+ unnecessary apology) on my missives’ temporary suspension in your filtrate systems, it saved me the labour of approximate reproduction…
    Remember, kiddies, unless it’s a throwaway, always, always, take a moment to copy before posting.

96. corvusboreusNovember 5, 2017 at 1:29 pm

    Trish Corry,
    I get it. You despise all greens. state or federal, member or associate, from best principle to worst practice.
    I already deduced your feelings from the consistent vitriolic invective contained in your frequent diatribes upon the subject.
    You do not need to reiterate the depths and intensity of the hate you hold in your heart for all things green.on my account.

97. Carl FraserNovember 5, 2017 at 1:49 pm

    Well. When India’s former environment minister says he’s appalled by Australia’s decision to approve Adani’s massive new coal mine in Queensland, and the company’s record in environmental management in India “leaves a lot to be desired”. That Jairam Ramesh has told the ABC the mine will threaten the survival of the Great Barrier Reef. “You’re giving a tax break to a project that is actually going to have adverse environmental consequences, which will have multiplying effects on weather patterns in the region, across the world. I find it bizarre,” he said.
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/former-indian-environment-minister-says-adanis-track-record-leaves-a-lot-to-be-desired-20171002-gysky0.html

98. diannaartNovember 5, 2017 at 1:58 pm

    @ corvusboreus

    Thanks for your most edifying comments – am in full agreement.

    @ Truthie

    I have always wished you well, in spite of disagreements we may share. I will always err in favour of Labor should they “do the right thing”. If Anna has been playing a very fraught balancing act – I can get that. Adani. Must. Not. Go. Ahead.

    If Bill Shorten has been playing for time, surely that moment has arrived – time to take advantage of LNP ineptitude and internal confusion to present a clear difference on policies. Even the mess made of detaining refugees can be utilised as well as provide safety for 600 men. Of course LNP will cry back flip – but Labor would be saving people who have been sorely used. Moral superiority is always a good hand in the game.

    Yes, PHON is a worry – but trying to win votes from her supporters is a zero sum game. Shorten needs to play for the centre and the languishing left.

    Still NQR. Had a relapse a few weeks ago and am still recovering. Being a naturally impatient sort of person, the universe is having a great deal of entertainment with me and others who are trapped, whether by chronic illness or the fences of unjust imprisonment.

99. paul walterNovember 5, 2017 at 3:20 pm

    Let the butterflies fly free.

100. corvusboreusNovember 5, 2017 at 4:08 pm

     paul walter,
     Regarding flutterbies,
     The Australian/Frilled Fritillary butterfly used to be a fairly commonly occurrence down my way.
     It’s now a couple of decades off no confirmed sighting away from being declared locally extinct.
     Small patches of this species are confirmed as still living, principally on kangaroo grass headlands and remnant wetlands in southern Queensland. I sincerely hope they are looking after them as best they can.
     https://www.ehp.qld.gov.au/wildlife/animals-az/australian_fritillary_butterfly.html
     female; https://www.echo.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/A_female_Australian_Fritillary_but162001.jpg
     male; http://nnimgt-a.akamaihd.net/transform/v1/crop/frm/36cb5pgMzenMnrRDPitnuXV/6eadfaa1-dfbf-4e98-a12f-2a7d48ffa071.jpg/r0_264_5184_3193_w1200_h678_fmax.jpg
     This is the larval associate it requires in congregation; https://www.anbg.gov.au/gnp/gnp11/viola-betonicifolia500.jpg

101. diannaartNovember 5, 2017 at 5:10 pm

     Mum used to plant milk weed shrubs to attract Monarch butterflies… they were a joyful part of my childhood. No matter where she moved she kept planting milk-weed – even though the butterflies stopped coming around 20 to 30 years ago. These stunning orange and black insects still make the journey in the Americas from the north through to Mexico where they cluster, mate and the cycle repeats itself.

     The excitement of watching these butterflies emerge, their crumpled wings expand and the feeling of being at one with nature as they rested upon our heads and shoulders before flying off, is a memory which will never fade.

     Male
     http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-nPu3xZpOCXg/TdpjvyFn0iI/AAAAAAAAArA/n3gkJ_qxoIA/s1600/9a.jpg

     Both male and female are same size (guess they need strong wings for their epic journeys) males have a black spot on their hind wings over the vein.

     Female
     https://monarchbutterflygarden.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/female-Monarch-pink-crape-myrtle-close-BS.jpg

     Am wondering if anyone here in Australia has observed any Monarch butterflies, recently?

102. corvusboreusNovember 5, 2017 at 5:48 pm

     diannaart,
     Monarchs/Wanderers (Danaus plexippus) are actually a 19th century import from the American continents, and are relatively common through much of eastern Australia.
     https://australianmuseum.net.au/wanderer-butterfly
     And yes, I’ve seen them both regularly and recently.

103. diannaartNovember 5, 2017 at 6:06 pm

     CB

     Whereabouts exactly? – not seen in southern Victoria for a long time – the butterflies simply stopped coming to the milk weed bushes.

104. corvusboreusNovember 5, 2017 at 7:11 pm

     Diannaart,
     I live in coastal northern NSW, and twixt the Macleay and Richmond valleys is the epicentre of my main ramblings
     Up here, various milk-pod varieties (both native and exotic) tend to abound in neglected clearings (a fairly regular land-use feature), and the monarchs (which seem to prefer sub-trop to strict temp) are a quite routine observance.

105. diannaartNovember 5, 2017 at 7:19 pm

     CB

     My abode is in the Dandenong Ranges – from now through to Autumn I see many butterflies I recognise from my childhood, but, alas, no Monarchs.The seasonal temperatures were no deterrence many years ago, must be some other problem. Not sure on what the milkweed (exotic & native) situation is here in the ranges – must admit to not really checking that out.

     Am planning on moving to SE South Australia – will take notice of the Monarch situation there, after I, somehow, move house.

     I am sure you enjoy your ramblings

     Cheers

     Dianna

106. Truth SeekerNovember 6, 2017 at 1:34 pm

     Corvusboreus, thanks for your contributions to this discussion, and your kind words and well wishes. 🙂

     It’s interesting that you mentioned “Biological decay”, as that is a part of my genetic lung disease, which has proved very debilitating over the last few years.

     Having said that, I am now on the lung transplant list, and waiting for the call, which is a very strange position to be in, knowing that your long term future is dependent upon another persons demise… Very hard to get your head around, and at the same time, suddenly very real, and very surreal, but then the surgeon did say it is very much a mental game from here on!

     Thanks again

     Cheers

107. corvusboreusNovember 9, 2017 at 7:54 am

     Truth Seeker,
     Thank you for your honesty.
     I confess to having delayed reply in part due to emotional cowardice.
     Words are hard, black and white defining the grey, and what can I offer as confort in the surreal reality you are confronting?
     Some semi-clever words, an attempt at empathic undurstanding, a few salty tears, an agnostic prayer?
     ‘I hope someone with suitable organs conveniently dies nearby, in circumstances of minimal regret and suffering’?
     It sometimes feels so much better to remain silent, but that is just a convenient way of offering nothing.

     I think part of the mental game of which your surgeon speaks is stimulation and appreciation so the best thing I can think of to offer to you, a composer, performer and teacher of music, is some sweet sounds that you may not have heard before;
     
     Cheers.

108. Truth SeekerNovember 9, 2017 at 11:12 pm

     Hi again Corvusboreus 🙂

     Thanks for your reply, and I appreciate your considered approach, although I really didn’t think my revelation was anything more than a explanation, of my situation , but then I was told nearly 20 years ago, when I was first diagnosed, that I would qualify for a transplant, as my lung disease was genetic, as opposed to self inflicted, so you would think that I’ve had plenty of time to get used to the idea???

     But it’s taken me the last 2 years of work to actually get on the list, and what we realised is that you really can’t prepare for it once you’re there, you just have to try to prepare for all contingencies and then just hope for the best.

     The mental game, is multifaceted, with fears, hopes, doubts, worries, and insecurities, but you are right about music being something of a help in dealing with the stresses of it all, and as a musician and also a teacher for a number of years myself, my go to is my absolute favourite “Jethro Tull” so I either pick up my guitar and play some, or watch a concert on youtube, that brings back many memories of concerts I went to when I was younger, and could actually breathe normally. 🙂

     Thanks for the link, it’s a very interesting piece, although as a writer, I do tend to relate more to lyrics, so with that in mind, here’s a link that I watch a lot;
     

     Cheers