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Are you a Nazi?

In February I published an article called But then it was too late which was an excerpt from the Milton Mayer book They Thought They Were Free.  It is a chilling account of how the Nazis were able to rise to power, how they gradually habituated the public into accepting their increasingly depraved agenda.

But that was a long time ago and it couldn’t happen here, right?

In the land of the brave and the home of the free, the American Nazi Party still exists as “a Political-Educational Association, dedicated to the 14 WORDS – We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White children.”

They have a party platform and website that outlines their goals, or should I say demands, exhorting patriotic WHITE Americans to rise up.

“Each of us must decide just how far we will let the situation in America deteriorate, before we decide to take action to correct it. If you have had enough, and are willing to join the ranks of your ancestors who forged this land from a wilderness teeming with savages, and to keep it from returning to that state, we urge you to become involved. For your children’s sake, if not for your own. For White WORKER Power!”

Randa Morris has designed a ten question quiz to help modern day conservatives determine just how much of the American Nazi Party platform they agree with.  Whilst written for an American audience, the questions apply equally well to an Australian context.

Take the ‘Are you a Nazi?’ quiz.

  1. Do you oppose immigration and believe that America is for “Americans only?
  2. Do you oppose feminism, and do you believe that motherhood should be the prime role of women, in order to “strengthen the family unit?”
  3. Do you support the establishment of a new system of education, which would oversee the “moral development” of children?
  4. Do you believe that the economy and the government should be debt-free?
  5. Do you believe that America should be “energy sufficient,” and that we should exploit natural resources, such as land and water, in order to achieve that goal? (Bonus question: Is it a good idea to put ‘fossil fuel-producing corporations,’ like fracking wells, oil rigs and garbage incinerators in economically depressed regions of the country, to stimulate economic growth and create jobs for minorities?)
  6. Do you support the right of citizens to keep and bear arms? (No, Nazi’s do not support taking guns away, contrary to right wing bullshit.)
  7. Do you want to do away with the separation of church and state?
  8. Do you want to see the US government get involved in the “spiritual upbringing” of children?
  9. Are you a true supporter of “traditional American values?” (The Nazi’s call it ‘traditional Aryan values,’ but we know what you mean.)
  10. Do you believe that minorities and immigrants are a threat to the traditional United States?

Bonus points if you:

  1. Oppose labor unions and want to see them outlawed.
  2. Agree that there is a “war on white people” and that ‘reverse-racism’ is a real problem in the United States.
  3. Believe that gays present a real threat to “traditional American values” and the “traditional American family.”
  4. Hate “Communists” and are willing to apply that label to everyone you disagree with politically.

 

Remind you of anyone?

Randa explains her purpose is not to condemn or to convict, but to expose how the Nazi agenda has gone mainstream and to (hopefully) help some of the people who have bought into this agenda, to realize what they’ve been sold.

The use of religion by the right wing in the US today serves a specific purpose. Followers of the right wing confuse their religious beliefs with their political ideas, and become unable to separate the two. In the same way it did in Nazi Germany, the tactic is used to create religiously-fervent extremists, people who are unable to separate their belief in God from their devotion to a political party or regime.

What Hitler understood is that a man can be persuaded to do anything, as long as he believes that what he is doing is “God’s will.”

Regardless of what perspective you take on history, most people understand that Nazis were and are evil. Most people are aware that, in the past, they used mass manipulation to promote their agenda and to get the people to go along with it.

If the same tactics were being used in Australia today, would people be able to see what was happening? Could people go from being kind-hearted, God-fearing citizens to Nazi’s without realizing that their beliefs were being subtly manipulated through a mixing of religion and nationalism?

 

“the political opinion of the masses represents nothing but the final result of an incredibly tenacious and thorough manipulation of their mind and soul.” -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)


82 comments

  1. oldfart

    Funny, I’m currently reading Beevor’s “the battle for spain” and most of it occured prior to the actual fighting through the political events, between the end of WW1 and the 30’s. The right wing campaign is exactly the same as now, the church stuck their nose into the political agenda(catholic country but only 20% of population attended church). So nothing much has changed

  2. Christel Nathan

    Nothing has been learned from History ,I grew up under the Nazi System never again Australia take a stand against such regime befor it swallows as up

  3. mars08

    Maybe not Nazi… but far too many of our fellow citizens are “good Germans”

  4. Christine Farmer

    It is too frighteningly easy for small but steadily incremental changes in all sorts of areas to come to be accepted as the norm. All done perfectly legally, of course – just as Hitler’s election to power was legal. Just as Scott Morrison can do exactly as he chooses with refugees, with no objection possible. This should be causing a huge uproar, but I fear unless the majority of people are affected there will be no response. Why shouldn’t other ministers decide they have total power over anyone affected by their portfolio, and no questions asked ? Nazi Germany is a horrifying example of what can happen – little by little, when changes seem reasonable, one by one. It’s the frog in the warming saucepan of water syndrome.

  5. nettythe1st

    This sprang to mind:

    “Fools” said I,”You do not know
    Silence like a cancer grows.
    Hear my words that I might teach you,
    Take my arms that I might reach you.”
    But my words like silent raindrops fell,
    And echoed
    In the wells of silence.

  6. mars08

    Luckily the intrepid, fearless, trustworthy members of the MSM will keep us informed.

  7. Kaye Lee

    Unfortunately, if the MSM journalists DO keep us informed George Brandis can decide to prosecute them. But we all trust his judgement just like we trust Scott Morrison’s….right?

  8. CMMC

    All the above would be agreeable to the average ‘tradee’.

  9. DanDark

  10. diannaart

    … your ancestors who forged this land from a wilderness teeming with savages…American Nazi Party

    Tony Abbott: …”it’s hard to think that back in 1788 it was nothing but bush”…

    — well, at least the native Americans got a mention…

    We really need to be very aware of what is happening. Our government is anti-feminist, anti-gay and very lacking in compassion for anyone who is just a little too ‘different’, such as refugees.

    Thanks for the scary and relevant article Kaye Lee.

  11. mars08

    CMMC:

    All the above would be agreeable to the average ‘tradee’.

    How can you make such a comment?

    Because… I move in those circles… have done for decades… and I can tell you unequivocally… you are right!

  12. John Fraser

    <

    I think I might be a Nazi !

    <
    <
    <

    Because I would like to string up Morrison with some piano wire.

    Because I would love to lock Kevin Andrews in a womens shelter.

    Because I would love to lock Abbott and his gang in a detention/concentration camp on Nauru.

    Oh ! …. there's so much more, but I am making myself sick.

    The Abbott gang are such filthy bastards ….. each and every one of them.

    There are no redeeming features.

  13. mars08

    The US Senate’s Intelligence Committee has finally released its review of the CIA’s detention and torture programs … barely a whisper in our meeja…

  14. Möbius Ecko

    Murdoch tweeted supporting the CIA, intimating it was a travesty they were being held to account for torture when they saved so many lives and did such a sterling job.

  15. Kerri

    I’ve been calling them Nazis and making Hitler comparisons from day one. The problem with we educated progressives is we are too polite and lack the bastardry to ride roughshod over any opposers!

  16. mars08

    Möbius Ecko:

    …a travesty they were being held to account for torture when they saved so many lives and did such a sterling job.

    The report states that NO important information was extracted using torture! But maybe that wasn’t the point…

  17. John Fraser

    <

    @mars08

    Yep ! not a squeak from the MSM and the Abbott gang about the Americans torturing an Australian.

  18. mars08

    I never thought I would see a more depressing leader than the “poison dwarf… J.W. Howard.

    But Abbott has created a whole new set of standards. The has set the bar to an unprecedented low.

    Unfortunately the social conditions, morality, culture, political system and prejudices which gave us Prime Minister Howard and Prime Minister Abbott remain unchanged.

    The 21st Century has seen the pivot point of the political pendulum SMASHED hard to the right. Any slight swing of the pendulum back to the left is barely noticeable.

    Unless there is a serious rethink of our “values”… it will only be a matter of time before somone else picks up Howard’s and Abbott’s banner and moves it further down that dark road.

  19. Sandshoe

    Mars08,writes my thoughts only more articulately,but let’s not forget Kruds part in Abbotts rise,my suspicion is he was a Tory plant all along

  20. James

    I believe this government is run by people such as Abbott who can generalised as arrogant opportunistic narcissistic ego-centric etc, but I do think classifying them as Nazis is dumb, as Nazis were a far more evil hideous mind-set. Young people getting the message today that this is what it is to be a Nazi is doing their future generations a massive disservice to their learning about human nature and it’s potentials. I remember almost identical posters of Fraser being around in the 70s, no-one would look back and give that any credibility now.

    Do your job to explain and reveal to people about these morons for what they are and what they are doing. This is shallow name-calling journalism does no one any good.

  21. Kaye Lee

    David Pope did a cartoon of George Brandis speaking to an American holding a copy of the CIA torture report

    BRANDIS: Surely you have robust national security laws to prevent this sort of thing?

    CIA: Torture?

    BRANDIS: Disclosure

  22. mars08

    You have a point James.

    Nazi Germany wasn’t always Nazi Germany until, at some point, it was.

    Could you please keep an eye on this odious government …and kindly let us know EXACTLY when it’s okay for us to start to worry about their emerging Nazi tendencies?

  23. Kaye Lee

    James

    I just reread what I wrote and I have no idea to what you are referring. Who did I call names? This article is about the American Nazi Party. I didn’t call them that,,,,that’s what they call themselves, The ten questions are about their platform which you can read for yourself should you choose. The article by Randa Morris discusses how these views are entering mainstream America. I see the same sort of selfishness, xenophobia, nationalism, secrecy, propaganda, lies and demonisation becoming more apparent in Australian society.

    And if I was doing my job, we wouldn’t be chatting here. This is what I do as a break from my job.

  24. lawrencewinder

    Check out Abetz’s relative in Carmen Callil’s “Bad Faith” Jonathan Cape. ISBN 0-224-07872-0 …and the Nazi’s are already here; they’re just called the IPA!
    Also Joachim Fest’s, “The Face of the Third Reich” Penguin: ISBN 0 4-14-02-1536-0 is a chilling reminder that the banality of the likes of Cory “Bestiality” Bernardi, Kevin “Abort” Andrews and Steve “Slit-her-Throat” Ciobo can attain enormous power and influence.

  25. john o'callaghan

    Thanks for a well written article,and you make some valid points,and for what it’s worth i think you are right.”’

  26. corvus boreus

    Nazi Follies (dedicated to James)

    A comedic operetta of Fascistic comparison.

    Featuring the talents of,
    Tony Abbott as Hitler in a brownshirt.
    Christopher Pyne as Minister Goebells.
    Joe Hockey as Air-Marshall Goering.
    Malcolm Turnbull as Rudolph Hess.
    Scott Morrison as Heinrich Himmler.
    Julie Bishop as Eva Braun.
    David Johnson as a General hung up on a meat-hook.
    Eric Arbetz as Colonel Klink having fits.
    Bronwyn Bishop as the fat lady in the horned helmet singing Wagner,
    And George Brandis as that creepy dude with the drill who keeps asking;”is it safe?…Is it safe?…””

    Limited season only.

  27. Rob031

    Here are some of the more extreme rants that are on Andrew Bolt’s Twitter account by his followers:

    * Either Muslims should leave or they should be tightly controlled by the state.
    * Today’s genuine refugees are tomorrow’s rapists, terrorists, and lifelong Centrelink recipients.
    * So increasing the refugee intake and releasing junior refugees into the community is a win? Yeah. Right.
    * So 7500 more economic refugees from failed 3rd world cultures is “success”?
    * how about giving Australian tax payers as a say on immigration via a referendum!
    * People need to email [Scott Morrison], and your local member, and tell them to abolish the refugee intake, not increase it.
    * Why in the hell do these nuts cases want to let more muslims in Australia, are they totally stupid or something.
    * 99.9 % of boat people have been muslims.
    * more than 75% of refugees are still living in public housing and drawing Centrelink payments after being here for 5 years
    * We should be decreasing our [refugee] intake not increasing it.
    * [Muslims] have total contempt for us, our way of life and our laws and they use their religion as a weapon against us.
    * Jihadi allowance, oops I mean centerlink payments
    * celebrating Ramadan in Woolworth’s stores, and Hallal meat
    * The left wanting to bring in muslims on mass for example, they see as a one way to break down our exiting culture and way of life
    * Fundamentally the left oppose our Judeo/Christian free enterprise culture and they will do anything and everything to bring it down.
    * The left have been tireless in their crusade to destroy all aspects of western culture that Australians observe.

    Yuk.

  28. mars08

    A female priest claims to have been strip-searched following a sit-in protest at Foreign Minister Julie Bishop’s Subiaco electoral office on Wednesday.

    Anglican priest, the Reverend Lorna Green, said she was outraged to be stripped naked and searched for drugs and firearms…

    http://m.watoday.com.au/wa-news/female-priest-strip-searched-for-drugs-and-firearms-following-sitin-20141211-124ytm.html

    On the other hand ,our army hadn’t yet invaded the Sudetenland so we’re probably not Nazis.

  29. stephentardrew

    Corvus:

    When can I buy tickets?

  30. corvus boreus

    stephen,
    Tickets are currently available from the North Sydney Club, specialists in bookings for elite social functions and group travels.

  31. stephentardrew

    Kaye:

    A completely creditable article that outline the attributes of fascism. We need to be cognizant of how close we are to many of the items on the hit-list. What we are facing is much more insidious than Nazism however the similarities should be brought out into the light of day so we can have some idea of the dangerous trends in LNP policy.

    The question we must begin to answer is how far is far enough and, like you, I think we have gone well and truly too far in the direction of corporate totalitarianism.

    Very informative and scary.

  32. Erotic Moustache

    Randa Morris has what qualifications apart from being a blogger?

  33. Michael Taylor

    So is Bolt.

  34. Kaye Lee

    I am also horrified – by what I read at the American Nazi Party site. I am horrified that I see those attitudes being mirrored in Australian society. I am horrified that what was once a country that went out of its way to help others has become so isolationist. I am horrified at the comments vilifying Muslims that abound on sites like Bolt’s and Pickering’s.

    As for qualifications,

    “Randa Morris has been a freelance writer for over ten years. Her articles have been featured on prominent sites such as yahoo, MSN, E-How, Livestrong and other popular websites. She is a community activist who strongly supports economic and environmental justice, as well as human rights issues.”

    I have no relevant qualifications and you are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.

  35. Rob031

    Below is the the “F-Scale or Fascist Scale” which was developed and documented in a seminal work by Adorno et. al. A thumping big book and, if you’re really interested in right-wing Authoritarianism this is the one to read first up. It was funded by a Jewish organization with the view to understanding how Germany behaved as it did. The authors were, on the whole, Germans from “The Frankfurt School” of psychology and philosophy. Here is the link to where I copied and pasted the scale from:

    http://www.anesi.com/fscale.htm

    Fifty years ago, the Authoritarian Personality studies attempted to “construct an instrument that would yield an estimate of fascist receptivity at the personality level.”

    This online, interactive F Scale presents that instrument in its final form. Additional infomation, including an explanation of the personality variables the F Scale tries to measure, is given below after the questionnaire. So take the F Scale now — or else! And if you want a good definition of fascism (something that somehow eluded the authors of the Authoritarian Personality studies), check out Fascism: The Ultimate Definition.

    The Marking Scale:

    1 = Disagree Strongly, 2 = Disagree Mostly, 3 = Disagree Somewhat
    4 = Agree Somewhat, 5 = Agree Mostly, 6 = Agree Strongly

    The Questions:

    [1] Obedience and respect for authority are the most important virtues children should learn.
    [2] A person who has bad manners, habits, and breeding can hardly expect to get along with decent people.
    [3] If people would talk less and work more, everybody would be better off.
    [4] The business man and the manufacturer are much more important to society than the artist and the professor.
    [5] Science has its place, but there are many important things that can never be understood by the human mind.
    [6] Every person should have complete faith in some supernatural power whose decisions he obeys without question.
    [7] Young people sometimes get rebellious ideas, but as they grow up they ought to get over them and settle down.
    [8] What this country needs most, more than laws and political programs, is a few courageous, tireless, devoted leaders in whom the people can put their faith.
    [9] No sane, normal, decent person could ever think of hurting a close friend or relative.
    [10] Nobody ever learned anything really important except through suffering.
    [11] What the youth needs most is strict discipline, rugged determination, and the will to work and fight for family and country.
    [12] An insult to our honor should always be punished.
    [13] Sex crimes, such as rape and attacks on children, deserve more than mere imprisonment; such criminals ought to be publicly whipped, or worse.
    [14] There is hardly anything lower than a person who does not feel a great love, gratitude, and respect for his parents.
    [15] Most of our social problems would be solved if we could somehow get rid of the immoral, crooked, and feebleminded people.
    [16] Homosexuals are hardly better than criminals and ought to be severely punished.
    [17] When a person has a problem or worry, it is best for him not to think about it, but to keep busy with more cheerful things.
    [18] Nowadays more and more people are prying into matters that should remain personal and private.
    [19] Some people are born with an urge to jump from high places.
    [20] People can be divided into two distinct classes: the weak and the strong.
    [21] Some day it will probably be shown that astrology can explain a lot of things.
    [22] Wars and social troubles may someday be ended by an earthquake or flood that will destroy the whole world.
    [23] No weakness or difficulty can hold us back if we have enough will power.
    [24] It is best to use some prewar authorities in Germany to keep order and prevent chaos.
    [You’ll have to pretend it is 1946 when you answer this one.]
    [25] Most people don’t realize how much our lives are controlled by plots hatched in secret places.
    [26] Human nature being what it is, there will always be war and conflict.
    [27] Familiarity breeds contempt.
    [28] Nowadays when so many different kinds of people move around and mix together so much, a person has to protect himself especially carefully against catching an infection or disease from them.
    [29] The wild sex life of the old Greeks and Romans was tame compared to some of the goings-on in this country, even in places where people might least expect it.
    [30] The true American way of life is disappearing so fast that force may be necessary to preserve it.

    If your score is..
    Less than 2 You are a whining rotter.
    2 to 3 You are a liberal airhead.
    3 to 4.5 You are within normal limits
    4.5 to 5.5 You may want to practice doing things with your left hand.
    5.5 or higher You have trouble keeping the lint off your black shirt

    Categories Tested + Question Numbers:

    * Conventionalism: Rigid adherence to conventional,
    middle-class values.
    1, 2, 3, 4
    * Authoritarian Submission: Submissive, uncritical
    attitude toward idealized moral
    authorities of the ingroup.
    1, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
    *Authoritarian Aggression: Tendency to be on the
    lookout for, and to condemn, reject,
    and punish people who violate
    conventional values.
    2, 3, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16
    Anti-intraception: Opposition to the subjective, the
    imaginative, the tender-minded.
    3, 4, 17, 18
    Superstition and Stereotypy: The belief in mystical
    determinants of the individual’s fate;
    the disposition to think in rigid
    categories.
    5, 6, 19, 20, 21, 22
    Power and “Toughness”: Preoccupation with the dominance-
    submission, strong-weak, leader-follower
    dimension; identification with power
    figures; overemphasis upon the
    conventionalized attributes of the ego;
    exaggerated assertion of strength and
    toughness.
    8, 11, 12, 20, 23, 24, 25, 30
    Destructiveness and Cynicism: Generalized hostility,
    vilification of the human.
    26, 27
    Projectivity: The disposition to believe that wild and
    dangerous things go on in the world;
    the projection outwards of unconscious
    emotional impulses.
    18, 22, 25, 28, 29
    Sex: Exaggerated concern with sexual “goings-on.”
    13, 16, 29

    If you read the comment threads on Murdoch owned papers and many of these attributes will be found to be expressed. Scary stuff. Almost makes Abbott himself look like a moderate!

  36. Erotic Moustache

    I.e. Morris has no qualifications other than having an opinion. Great. Citizen journalism at its best. Playing the Nazi card is so stupid you should know better. Godwin had a point. Pity you missed it. Take the article down before it hits Twitter.

  37. Kaye Lee

    My feet are like wings bwana

  38. John Fraser

    <

    @MEM

    The "terrible indictment on this site" arrived at the same time as the Miniscule Erotic Moustache (MEM).

    Why do you keep coming back for more ?

    Have you got psychological problems ?

    If so you should join Abbotts gang, take a blood oath and get your blood group tattooed above your heart.

  39. Kaye Lee

    For your edification EM, when Mike Godwin was specifically asked “Was Price’s comparison of the Australian Government’s treatment of asylum seekers to the Nazis’ treatment of Jews and other “undesirables” during WWII unwarranted? Or just another example of Godwin’s Law?” he tweeted, and I quote,

    “Not at all a trivializing comparison, but rather the opposite, IMHO.”

    https://storify.com/timb07/godwin-on-australia-s-treatment-of-asylum-seekers

    I am unsure of his qualifications to make this remark.

  40. Erotic Moustache

    I don’t need to be edified, thank you. The article is utter trash, because Morris’ “quiz” is utter trash. Defend it all you want; be as glib as you want; it won’t change anything. It was a mistake. They happen. You don’t think so? That’s ok. I’ll say so because that is my right, unless things don’t work that way here, which is not the impression I’ve gotten thus far.

    I’ll go through each of her “points” if you want (not all of which I think are wrong, btw).

  41. John Fraser

    <

    MEM is the suppository of all wisdom.

  42. Kaye Lee

    You may do as you please, within reason, EM. A person who does not need edification probably has much wisdom to impart. So I’m guessing that Godwin no longer has a point? I am also wondering if you have actually read The American Nazi Party’s platform that the questions were based on?

  43. Erotic Moustache

    Godwin’s point is somewhat tangential. His point was about conversation. I think it applies, which is why I mentioned it. I’ll make my point about Morris’ “list” if I can manage to recover from John Fraser’s devastating retort to me. Right now he’s rendered me unable to think beyond the question of how many ingredients it takes to make a banana and peanut paste ice cream.

  44. Kaye Lee

    EM you have contributed nothing to this conversation except abuse. If you have a point to make then FFS make it….or did you just pay $10 for an argument and are insisting on having it?

  45. Erotic Moustache

    If I have a point? My point is that comparing this Government to actual Nazim of Germany circa 1930 is historical, political and philosophical garbage. That is my point. I expressed the view in my original criticism that Morris’ list attempts to redefine what “Nazism” is/was to mean “non–leftist”. If you can’t see how that is true then I suggest you need to step back and examine the degree to which you are able to examine things rationally and objectively.

    If I have time and motive I’ll show you how that’s so tomorrow. It’s late and reasonable people ought never argue when it’s late of hour.

  46. silkworm

    I get the feeling that most of Australia’s Catholics, some 30% of the population, are Nazis.

  47. Kaye Lee

    Can you show me where in my article I did that? Did you miss the fact that this was about a contemporary group in America who are self-named Nazis? Did you miss the point that these views are becoming accepted in mainstream society? This isn’t about Hitler. It is about today.

    And reasonableness is more likely affected by alcohol than the hour.

  48. silkworm

    If this article offends you, Erotic Moustache, it’s probably because you’re a Nazi too.

  49. Erotic Moustache

    Right, so it’s not about Hitler, it’s about today, where we redefine “Nazism” to mean “non-leftist” and employ all the moral leverage that nevertheless enables. It’s intellectual dross and beneath anyone who values their intellect and historical knowledge as far as I’m concerned, but I just watched the latest episode of Newsroom so I’m probably a little righteous and fired up.

    Do you think you’re a little too invested in your reputation as an author here? You don’t seem to take criticism well, to the point that you will passive aggressively assert your moderation capacity. That’s not a good sign for freedom of discourse. Just sayin.

  50. Erotic Moustache

    If this article offends you, Erotic Moustache, it’s probably because you’re a Nazi too.

    There ya go. My point (part thereof, nutshell). This is the sort of disgusting rubbish this kind of article will naturally solicit. Give me one reason why anyone of any political importance would care about this site? Give me one reason why you apparently don’t care that there exists no such reason.

  51. Erotic Moustache

    Can you show me where in my article I did that?

    “What Hitler understood is that a man can be persuaded to do anything, as long as he believes that what he is doing is “God’s will.”

    Regardless of what perspective you take on history, most people understand that Nazi’s were and are evil. Most people are aware that, in the past, they used mass manipulation to promote their agenda and to get the people to go along with it.

    If the same tactics were being used in Australia today, would people be able to see what was happening? Could people go from being kind-hearted, God-fearing citizens to Nazi’s without realizing that their beliefs were being subtly manipulated through a mixing of religion and nationalism?”

    ————-

    I actually read what’s written here as opposed to the mindless sycophants who simply type “Great Article” when you know damn well they didn’t read it.

  52. Erotic Moustache

    silkworm,

    I get the feeling that most of Australia’s Catholics, some 30% of the population, are Nazis.

    And not a person here will chastise you for saying something so cretinous, bigoted and offensive. Not one. Apparently the Koolaide is free.

  53. John Fraser

    <

    @MEM

    You make a very good case for treatment.

    How about we get you Sectioned.

    That way we will be able to try to understand your proclivity to refuse to think about anything other than bananas, nuts and ice cream.

    I'm not at all surprised that you are one of "Team Australia" …. your thought processes match Abbott's to a T.

  54. Kaye Lee

    ” My point is that comparing this Government to actual Nazim of Germany circa 1930 is historical, political and philosophical garbage.”

    I actually read the comments and your answer did not show me where I did that. And cut the crap about me seeking praise or people mindlessly throwing palm fronds at my feet. You are just being deliberately unpleasant.

  55. Erotic Moustache

    “What Hitler understood is that a man can be persuaded to do anything, as long as he believes that what he is doing is “God’s will.”

    Regardless of what perspective you take on history, most people understand that Nazi’s were and are evil. Most people are aware that, in the past, they used mass manipulation to promote their agenda and to get the people to go along with it.

    If the same tactics were being used in Australia today, would people be able to see what was happening? Could people go from being kind-hearted, God-fearing citizens to Nazi’s without realizing that their beliefs were being subtly manipulated through a mixing of religion and nationalism?”

    I’m done.

  56. John Fraser

    <

    @MEM

    Its OK for people to be bigots ….. Herr Brandis.

    Why are you continually denying your "Team Australia" roots.

    Its OK to come out.

    We couldn't possibly laugh at you any more than we are now.

    ?

  57. stephentardrew

    Kaye the guy is an inveterate stirrer and LNP troll. Time to put him out for the crows and vultures.

    Good to be amongst family hey Neurotic Moustache.

  58. John Fraser

    <

    I personally think of Rome as the headquarters of neo nazis.

    Plenty of clicking of heels when Pell arrived home.

  59. John Fraser

    <

    For political aficionados who keep an eye on the extreme right wing "think tank" the Sydney Institute.

    Run by Gerrard "Uriah Heep" Henderson.

    And those who have seen Ms Heep on the Drum.

    You would know what "experts" they are on Nazis.

    And thats why this Article has so upset MEM.

    How dare you … Kaye Lee ….. venture into their domain.

    Feel chastened now Kaye Lee.

  60. Kaye Lee

    It is important to me to explain what I intended by this article.

    EM,

    I explained this is about a current political group. You ignored that point.

    I explained my concerns about warning signs in contemporary society – secrecy, propaganda etc

    We are not rounding up Jews and gassing them but we are rounding up asylum seekers and locking them up and we are unleashing the hounds onto our Muslim communities.

    We are not invading other countries with a view to ruling them….just bombing the crap out of them then going home. Or using the slow version by selling them coal.

    Abbott isn’t Hitler by any stretch of the imagination. But when Ministers start giving themselves autocratic powers and courts and parliament are bypassed, when journalists are threatened and freedom of information curtailed, when transparency, accountability and oversight are removed…..it’s time to get worried.

  61. stephentardrew

    Kaye if he doesn’t get it buy now, as per my original post, then he will never get it.

    The truth is a frightening thing when you are trying to justify cruelty, brutality and the fall into despotic corporate totalitarianism.

    The truth will set you free EM.

  62. Kaye Lee

    I know who EM is. He is not a Liberal troll. He, at times, can make worthwhile contributions to a discussion. And other times he just wants to shit on everyone from a great height.

  63. Gregory T

    The smell of suppository cream becomes over powering, when ever EM espouses his banal bleatings.

  64. Möbius Ecko

    “But when Ministers start giving themselves autocratic powers and courts and parliament are bypassed, when journalists are threatened and freedom of information curtailed, when transparency, accountability and oversight are removed…”

    You can add; “legitimate whistleblowers against the government are sanctioned with the threat of heavy punishment but whistleblower stooges for the government are praised and rewarded…”

    That is also an indication of an undemocratic tending to autocratic rule and something this government is doing.

  65. corvus boreus

    Catholics are not necessarily Nazis, they just believe some really bizarre shit.
    Bad Silkworm!(chastisement)

    For the invokees of the rule of Godwin, the article by Kaye Lee did not make a direct comparison between Hitlers’ nazis and the Abbott regime, it was a discussion based around a questionnaire of whether personal values and beliefs aligned with the(directly-stated) policy platforms of the(self-named) American Nazi Party(which would itself have differences in policy from those of Adolphs’ German Nat-Soc Workers Party).

    One of the lessons learned from history is the techniques of persuasion and manipulation of mass opinion, which are studied and refined by those seeking power. Bread and circuses. Fear and loathing.
    Propaganda was not invented by Joseph Goebells, and the first “concentration camps”(by that term) were established by the British during the Boer war(we helped them).

  66. mars08

    Erotic Moustache

    Right, so it’s not about Hitler, it’s about today, where we redefine “Nazism” to mean “non-leftist” and employ all the moral leverage that nevertheless enables…

    Yes… you obtuse clown! It is ABSOLUTELY about today!

    A time, in this country where the largest, mainstream “conservative” party is careening to the loony-right, becoming unaccountable and displaying a disturbing level of authoritarianism. A time when our government is exhibiting traits usually associated with Nazi Germany. The Liberal Party of today is NOT the party of the 20th Century. Theses days (like sections of the Labor Party) they are pandering to some nasty, cruel, dangerous notions in our society.

    Rather than accusing Kaye Lee of redefining “Nazism” to mean “non-leftist” you should be worried that today’s LNP has been busy redefining the word “Conservative”

  67. corvus boreus

    Ps, I do acknowledge that the lady blogging in her jammies was probably being a little bit ingenious in choosing to use an Abbott image with an extreme comb-over and strategic-artistic shading of the upper lip, but this is hardly the same as(for example) ‘professional journalists’ photo-shopping people into SS uniforms(or Mao boiler-suits etc) and publishing it commercially as syndicated front-page news.

  68. Kaye Lee

    lol I will admit to the photo but it was too hard to resist and the source assures me it has not been photoshopped. I also admit to an unsavoury pleasure in revealing what is under that comb over.

  69. John Fraser

    <

    Apparently photoshopping politicians in Australia is the sole domain of the criminal organisation known as Murdoch's Media.

    And it upsets people of limited knowledge when others venture anywhere near it.

    Kaye Lee if I had written your Article I would have gone to town on the photoshopping.

  70. abbienoiraude

    Thank you Kaye Lee for a thought provoking article and for the interesting commentary that follows.

    Incremental changes in attitudes are the most powerful in the end and without a fair and fiercely critical media we will never see just how far we have strayed from our beginnings.

  71. randalstella

    I think you mean ‘Are You a Fascist?’ Or ‘Are You Fascistic?’; although that does not make as facile a headline.
    ‘Fascist’ would be the more general term – if your interests in discussion are like mine.
    At least it saves on having to do the trivial Hitler and Nazi likenesses, that tend to display historical ignorance and disregard. Historical disregard is not a good sign.
    ‘Fascist’ at least allows less distracted discussion on tendencies. It allows for a culture to have its own brand of intolerances and reactions. Its own responsibilities.

    These tendencies need an encouraging and acquiescent culture to become prominent. And given their liking of force as answer to complex problems, when they become prominent they tend to browbeat into assumed consensus. They embolden the boofhead and intimidate intelligence. They start in small ’interest’ groups and spread from there – if they have the power and influence.
    For example. someone comes up with a policy consideration or idea – or some disagreement on what prevails. It is reacted to not with discussion but with personal abuse, and derogatory categorisation based far more in speculation than any evidence, or on the actual policy raised. For example, this happened to Gillard. But of course she was not the first and will not be the last. How to improve social responses to mass manipulations?

    Impugning personalisation is the characteristic of reactionaries. And it is a simple and forceful message – that seems to give those who accept it a share in that power. You can see it encouraging itself.
    How does anyone deal with this reaction? To the extent that it is reacting, it has no interest in the specifics of argument or policy.
    Does reacting back help? When does it help and where? When does it not help?
    Can it become a habit of moralising? Is it much more than such a habit in the predictably deplorable opinion?

    The idea is to make a difference – change the culture to some extent at least. Can it be done topic by topic? Or does it need an overall approach – perhaps even something like this article? Maybe both?

    I am concerned that an ‘overall’ approach just slings labels, and its items remain rather too generalised and prone to anti-historical hyperbole – to help anyone with a specific problem. It fails to engage the particulars of the culture it has concerns over, and can get only support among its own group. In my experience change has only come topic by topic, detail by detail. Very often it is done by individuals, and is rarely made public. It is not a Media thing; in my experience.
    The Media might only get in the way – what with their labelling and such. The most reliable mass-movement is reaction. Then very few individual contributions can make much difference.
    There is an important need to cultivate a culture of personal contributions on experience and specifics. It is the reason why reactionaries hate the Public Service and seek to demean, degrade and diminish it.

  72. Kaye Lee

    The title came from the name of the quiz which I did not write. It refers to the American Nazi Party not the American Fascist Party (sigh). These are real people who self-identify as Nazis and the quiz was based on their platform, asking conservatives to see how much they agreed with the American Nazi Party and to hopefully make people recognise the slippery slope.

    I have found this very interesting. Saying the word Nazi elicits a visceral response within itself, just as saying the word Greens does in others.

  73. randalstella

    You have responsibility for the article. It was clearly meant to have Australian relevance – as the photo-shop Adolf Abbott shows.
    Mine was a “visceral response”?
    If you want to play label-games in your little corner of the sand pit, that’s fine. Does not interest me. Where is difference being effected?
    My concern for the Abbott mob even exceeds that for the crooked so-called ‘Labor’ Government where I currently work. The combination is no fine thing.
    My concern is particularly for the authoritarian creatures given comfort and encouragement.
    Such as thug cops – who would do anything to anyone, if they could get away with it. The delight in victimisation is on the rise. (Sigh!)

  74. Kaye Lee

    randalstella,

    I always appreciate your contributions. As you are aware, I write a lot. I do not expect everyone to agree with what I write and I appreciate that people take the time to read and comment on it. I share things I come across in my reading. They will not always be of interest to others. My mind wanders to many different topics.

    My comment about “visceral response” was not aimed at you. It came from my seeming inability to explain I am talking about contemporary politics but as soon as the word Nazi comes up Hitler becomes the overriding conversation. That is my fault for using that photo.

    The article was intended to summarise the views of the Nazi Party in 2014….not the Nazis of the 1930s and 40s. They are slightly less violent in their approach but that may just be due to lack of numbers due to an unfortunate choice of name….like this article.

  75. randalstella

    Thanks.

  76. lunalava

    Your focus on “Nazi” is a little too narrow but I accept the premise that Fascism and fascist values are on the increase, often because “when good people fail to act, evil flourishes”.

    Your line “Followers of the right wing confuse their religious beliefs with their political ideas, and become unable to separate the two” is right on the money when it comes to fascist thinking.

    What is the difference between herding jews into a Warsaw ghetto for the purposes of “ethnic cleansing” and later in our history, the jews herding palestinians into the gaza strip and shelling the crap out of them?

    Apart from the death rate, herding people on to Christmas and Manus Island looks like “Nazi Lite” behaviour.

    Like all “Cleo” type pop quizzes, if you have to ask yourself these questions to find out if you are a Nazi, you are probably already a Liberal Party voter.

  77. Pingback: The hunt for slackbastard theantibogan Josh Bornstein | you said it...

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