Why Men Can Be Feminists But Bishops Can’t!

November 4, 2014
Written by: Rossleigh
39 Replies

Hey remember this from 2012?

In an unprecedented intervention by a political spouse, the normally private Mrs Abbott used a newspaper interview, breakfast television and radio interviews, and a speech in western Sydney yesterday in which she said the experience of having three daughters had made Mr Abbott a feminist.

Now, I remember commenting at the time that if having three daughters made a man a feminist, did having slaves turn slave owners into communists?

Clearly we’ve moved on. Well, the Liberal Party and I have moved on, and that’s the important thing. Why, just the other day, Julie Bishop pointed out that she’s not a feminist. Strange, considering she’s never had children – which everyone knows is the reason that God created women. Of course, when I say everyone, I’m excluding feminists who seem to have strange ideas about the role of women.

Now, before some of you feminists get all fired up and accuse me of being sexist just because I’m suggesting that women’s primary role is to have children, let me just remind you that this is only the female feminists who don’t think this is the case. Feminist Tony Abbott, who’s also the Minister for Women, seems to agree with me. In one of my previous blogs, I gave a link to the news section for the Ministry for Women’s website. There’s no need to go there again if you checked it out last time because there haven’t been any additions to the news. Of you do go there, you’ll notice, however, that what the Minister for Women thinks women need is a Paid Parental Leave scheme and Childcare. That’s about it. I can’t see any suggestion about a need for those silly quotas that would leave men like Barnaby Joyce, George Brandis and Christopher Pyne out of the Cabinet in favour of women with less ability, who are promoted just because they need a couple of token women. (Actually Barnaby couldn’t be left out because they need a certain number of National Party MPs in Cabinet, but don’t call that a quota because it’s not. A quota is when you have an artificial number imposed to pacify minority groups whereas the National Party is part of the government who are the majority. Not to mention the fact that Barnaby is a man and therefore not part of any minority group!)

Like Miss Bishop (I refer to her as Miss because Ms. would be offensive to a non-feminist like her), Michaela Cash, who’s the Minister in Charge of Assisting the Minister For Women Remember That The Portfolio Still Exists, has also made the point that she’s no feminist. A few months ago, she went on record to say:

“In terms of feminism, I’ve never been someone who really associates with that movement. That movement was a set of ideologies from many, many decades ago now.”

Of course, it did concern me when she added:

“All I know is I believe in women. That’s it. And I believe in men.”

Apart from my confusion that we have a member of Parliament whose knowledge is so specialised that it doesn’t extend beyond a belief in the existence of women – and men – it does perplex me that the women in Abbott’s government are telling us that they’re not feminists while Abbott himself was happy to have his wife establish his feminist credentials.

Although it was a couple of years ago, when one reads the rest of the article, one realises that a lot has changed since then.

In her speech, Mrs Abbott indirectly drew a stark contrast with the Prime Minister (Julia Gillard), who has never married or had children, saying the Abbotts were an ordinary family that had lived an ordinary life.

”I don’t pretend that the Abbotts are doing it tough, especially now. But when Tony was the only breadwinner and we were paying school fees and health insurance premiums, I often had to put off paying some bills till the following month especially when they just seemed to be going up and up and up,” she said.

”That experience has helped to keep Tony grounded when it’s so easy, mixing with people who have succeeded, to imagine that new taxes and charges don’t really hurt.”

Yep, things change! For one thing now that Abbott has become PM he’s become a conservationist. (Remember http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/i-am-a-conservationist-tony-abbott-says-no-friction-with-barack-obama-on-climate-change-action-20140613-3a192.html)

Perhaps we’ll have a reshuffle and Tony will take over as Minister for Conservation and Greg Hunt can become the Minister for Women, or as it may be renamed the Minister for Childcare and Having Babies. Julie Bishop could become the Prime Minister just to show that the Liberals aren’t really as sexist as they appear, and Malcolm Turnbull could become the Minister For Not Taking A Stand On Anything. In an attempt to ensure that there are always conflicts to distract us from the domestic problems, Barnaby Joyce could become Foreign Minister.

(There is a rumour that Turnbull has some supporters counting the numbers, but they run into trouble when they get past ten because they need to take of their shoes and socks to continue counting.)

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Jennifer Meyer-SmithNovember 4, 2014 at 5:47 pm

Tony Abbott, as the Minister for Women, this is yet another example of how when he is associated with something, it immediately is adversely affected like having asbestosis.

I suspect that by his electing to have this extra role, it was his way of insulting feminism and women, who identify as feminists.

From now on, instead of having a separate Ministry for Women, I want to see mandatory and enforceable legislation that relates to every socio-economic, political, legal, industrial, economic and other initiative introduced by government, churches, organisations, private enterprises and any other entities.

After all, women and girls are 50% of the population, so there should be no need for a Minister for Women. We are NOT a minority.

Make the Minister for Women redundant by gender equity enforcement. Make Tony Abbott redundant full stop.

Kaye LeeNovember 4, 2014 at 6:22 pm

It’s not just Bishop and Cash.

Fiona Scott (whose ‘sex appeal’ was praised by Abbott in a press conference) has observed that ‘feminism has a PR problem’. Concetta Fierravanti-Wells – who claims no feminist has ever helped her, showing a remarkable lack of appreciation for history – thinks employment should be governed by “merit and ability to do the job” (a nice idea, if only it were true).

Maybe it’s time we stop politely knocking on that door, and start trying to kick it down.

RoswellNovember 4, 2014 at 6:32 pm

They’re all over the shop whatever the topic or issue. How’s the latest one? Hunt says direct action will limit the damages of coal while Abbott says coal is good for humanity. They’d make more sense if they said ‘direct action is bad for humanity’. 😯

Kaye LeeNovember 4, 2014 at 6:52 pm

Abbott fobbed Obama off saying he wouldn’t talk about climate change at the G20 but he would talk about “Energy Efficiency”.

Unfortunately, the draft Energy Efficiency Action Plan does not make any mention of climate change, and instead stresses the role of efficiency in boosting energy security and improving “environmental outcomes”.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/g20/climate-change-hopes-for-g20-diminished-20141104-11grej.html

Linda47November 4, 2014 at 7:00 pm

Sounds to me like the women of the Coalition have been instructed to say they are not feminists!

Florence nee FedupNovember 4, 2014 at 7:06 pm

I wonder if Michaela Cash, has any idea what the world was like not so long ago. Does she not understand the changes that have come about by the people she seems to despise.

Yes, remove the word feminism, one comes up with women’s movement. Made up from women from all levels of society. Maybe too many middle class led us astray at times, much was achieved.

Know when I was her age, a woman could not admit themselves to hospital. need the signature of father or husband. Yes, even though I separated with four young children, they were demanding that my ex or father sign me in. Suspected breast cancer. I won that one after much screaming.

My wages were always 75% or less than men, working on the same line. Men always last to go when things slowed down. Not a female leading hand in sight. As well, when on sickness benefit not long before, I receive 75% of that paid to men. Lucky for me, I separated after Whitlam came along with his single mother’s pension.

Now when we came into a little money, I went house hunting, something my ex wanters no part of. A house yes, but you find it. Estate agents where reluctant, in fact one has demand they show property without a male trailing along. Either hubby or father it seems. If want at the time.es t a mortgagee, that was impossible. Only men capable of signing that.

Then there was that little pill that came out at the time. Yes, the pill. Our illustrious male politicians deemed that was one to be only available to married women.

This is only a glimpse of what life was like in the 50’s 60’s and 70’s

We stopped whinging, got out and things changed. Much more needs to be done.

It seems some who are benefitting from the changes, from the women who stood up for a better deal those evil feminist.

They need to remove the blinkers from their eyes, look at the real world around them.

Florence nee FedupNovember 4, 2014 at 7:10 pm

Has anyone noticed, when Abbott talks abut government, he comes across as an observer, not a participant, in fact definitely not as one would expect a PM to talk.

Florence nee FedupNovember 4, 2014 at 7:15 pm

7.30 With the closing down of our oil refineri4es, our supplies re now at risk. We have 12 days supply.

Kaye LeeNovember 4, 2014 at 7:18 pm

Former Liberal senator Judith Troeth says she still thinks “men like to run the show”.

“I think men have an innate fear of capable women at that level, not telling them what to do or certainly putting their views forward and perhaps some of those views being adopted as government policy,” she said.

Senator Boyce added: “I think the problem is that it demonstrates our preselection processes are stuck in the 19th century almost, not even the 20th century.”

“I think it’s shocking and I think it’s embarrassing, and it’s not just embarrassing nationally but I think it’s embarrassing internationally,” Liberal Senator Sue Boyce, who retired in July, said.

We also lost Liberal Senator Judi Moylan who showed courage in crossing the floor on issues such as the ETS and asylum seekers and was an important voice on the rights of women, here and abroad, to control their fertility.

These women did not achieve high office though they showed far more intelligence and integrity than the men Abbott chose to promote to his shadow cabinet. As we know, he considers sex appeal an attribute in his female colleagues so stop being hysterical you women and get back to looking pretty so you can keep that bad husband who is better than no husband at all.

Annie ByamNovember 4, 2014 at 7:32 pm

Naughty Rossleigh …… naughty. …. but a darned good article.

I did cotton on to the comment by Michaela Cash, reposted in your article.

She likes women – she likes men …. hooray – she likes hoomans.

Guess it’s better than liking crocs, tiger snakes, great white sharks, or even – heaven forbid – aliens from another planet. ??

You neglected to mention what porfolios you might give to Christopher Pyne and Scott Morrison !! ………..

I have a few suggestions, but MT would not allow them – cos they seriously wouldn’t be acceptable ( they would be outrageous and unutterably rude, in other words ). But they might well be appropriate. !!! 😉

======

Jennifer Meyer-Smith ……..

I suspect that you are correct. The role of ” Minister for Women ” …. by the very words themselves in the title, is an insult to women. Very definitely so – and meant to be just that, created by the ‘feminist’ Tony Abbott. …… I don’t think any other Government in our history has ever devised a portfolio of that name ….. there has been one of ” Minister for Women’s Affairs ” …. but that means a whole heap of different matters – to do with women – it is not specific, and has a very broad spectrum.

” Minister for Women” ????????????? ….. like women are a commodity, or a ‘thing’ ( like, say Finance ? ) to be addressed as a potential future ‘matter’ to be dealt with ? ….. it was / is a ‘dominant’ stance, and meant to be so.

I am not actually feminist – in the strictest terms of the word – but I am on the side of women – for sure. The moment I heard the Abbott announce himself as “Minister for Women ” ( last year ) ……. I honestly wanted to throw up.

Kaye LeeNovember 4, 2014 at 8:00 pm

Annie, a feminist is someone who advocates or supports the rights and equality of women. Can you tell me why you find that so objectionable that you must distance yourself by saying “I’m not a feminist”, something you have mentioned a few times now?

Matters NotNovember 4, 2014 at 9:45 pm

I am not actually feminist – in the strictest terms of the word

Please explain? So many questions that could be raised, but I think it’s up to you to clarify.

From a male feminist. And proud to affirm.

JasonNovember 5, 2014 at 1:19 am

I am a feminist too!

Kaye LeeNovember 5, 2014 at 6:03 am

As I have mentioned before, I was at Sydney University with Tony. His attitudes and behaviour were deplorable. I know people say that was a long time ago and that we shouldn’t judge people by what they said back then but I am the same age as Tony and his comments and actions were just as unacceptable then as they are now. He has always been threatened by homosexuality (disturbingly so – makes one wonder why), and also by feminists who he considered communist pot-smoking lesbians who were wasting money on trivial gender-based studies.

Kaye LeeNovember 5, 2014 at 6:09 am

To see how much he has changed, recall his answer about Fiona Scott when asked to describe her attributes – feisty with sex appeal (leer). He likes having photos taken with “the ladies” but he prefers us to look pretty and do as we are told. This so makes me cringe. Even James Packer looks decidedly uncomfortable. Tony just doesn’t quite have the “people management” knack.

Annie ByamNovember 5, 2014 at 1:51 pm

Kaye –

I believe you are very much over-reacting to my comments.

I do NOT …… repeat NOT …. find the word feminist, or feminism or anything to do with it …. OBJECTIONABLE !!

Good grief woman, I think you must be having a bad day !!

( your comment : ” Can you tell me why you find that so objectionable that you must distance yourself by saying “I’m not a feminist”, something you have mentioned a few times now? )

If you prefer, I could call myself a feminist – ( ask my husband – he reckons I am one for sure ) !!!!!!!

In that I support the rights and equality of women – then I am feminist.

It’s because I have never actively joined the feminist movement …. e.g. Feminist.com …… or any of the other dozens of on-line sites, or community based ‘feminist’ organisations, demonstrations, meetings et al.

NOW do you get it …….. ?

I do not appreciate being attacked over something that means so many and varied situations ….. feminism …. simply because I have said on a few occasions, that I am not a feminist.

NEXT TIME I MENTION IT ….. should I make sure to add that I do not belong to any feminist movement, organsiation or any on line site ….. just to make YOU feel more comfortable ?

I don’t think so. I simply won’t mention it again.

Annie ByamNovember 5, 2014 at 1:59 pm

Matters Not …….

Please read my reply to Kaye Lee ……… it explains what you have asked.

And that too is my point ………. ” so many questions that could be raised “.

It has so many and varied connotations – both within the feminist movement – and outside of it.

That is from what I have gathered over the years. I doubt anybody could argue with that !

———–

Well anyway – that’s one or two answers !! 🙂

Kaye LeeNovember 5, 2014 at 3:46 pm

Wow….one of us is overreacting and it isn’t me. All I did was ask a simple question. Could you please show me where you were attacked?

Feminism isn’t a club that you join. There may be feminist groups that you can join but the word feminism does not suggest any particular behaviour other than advocating equality of the sexes and it isn’t something you have to sign up to.

I asked the question out of genuine curiosity. Your response was defensive in the extreme and unnecessarily so.

In answer to your question…NO …I cannot understand why anyone would say they are not a feminist because that means you do not support equality which I do not believe is the case with you. I am a feminist and I could list a thousand reasons why. You say you are not a feminist – I was just asking why you make that statement.

Your suggestion that I must be having a bad day is rather annoying actually. You have stated several times that you are not a feminist. It seems to be an increasing trend for women to distance themselves from a movement that has done so much to make the world a better place and not just for women.

“Which part of feminism did Bishop find so unappealing? Is it the part where she is able to be an elected parliamentary representative, or just the part where she’s allowed to vote? Does she balk at the hard-won legislation that has enabled her to control her own fertility (an entitlement which surely proves invaluable to child-free women devoted to their careers) or is it more of an antipathy for the no-fault divorce laws which empowered women to leave abusive or simply unhappy marriages and carve out a better destiny for themselves?

Indeed, there are a number of arguments one could make about Bishop’s opposition to the feminist tag, the simplest of which is that it is categorically selfish to benefit from the hard work of your foremothers only to turn around and claim that you don’t really need it after all.”

Annie ByamNovember 5, 2014 at 4:51 pm

Kaye ……. please read all of this ! There is more to it than might meet the eye at first. ………

Your entire comment was one of questioning me – on a rather personal basis. …. I call that a form of ‘attack’

…. as for over-reaching – over-reacting – perhaps both of us have – huh ?

Your comment ( and I will put in CAPS the words I found to be somewhat ‘off ‘ in that comment )

………… ” Annie, a feminist is someone who advocates or supports the rights and equality of women. Can you tell me why YOU FIND THAT SO OBJECTIONABLE that you must DISTANCE YOURSELF by saying “I’m not a feminist”, something you have mentioned a few times now? ” ………………

I do not come on here to be questioned over my preferences, my ‘feminism’ …. or anything else that is personal. …. and I do think feminism is somewhat ‘personal’.

I answered your questioning …. and although I did NOT have to explain myself, I did so – to make things a little clearer ( I had hoped ).

If you care to – you might re-read my reply ……. it had mainly to do with my not being a part of on-line feminist sites, or joining any formal movement. Do you have ANY idea as to how many sites there are on-line to do with Feminism …. exclusively ? Hundreds – perhaps thousands. So – your remark that ‘feminism isn’t a club that you join’ …. is a little off the mark there. There are many many sites that one has to ‘join’ to be allowed to comment or even access.

—————

Many years back, before the Internet was ever heard of, there were groups of women who joined together to meet – ( not just morning coffees’ and chats ) … to discuss how to better the role of women in those days’ societies. Gosh, even the Suffragettes as far back as 1897 formed

__________the National Union of Women’s Suffrage.____________ ( Millicent Fawcett ) …..

………………..and they were totally vilified, threatened, and cruelly treated.

So there HAS been – historically – ‘clubs’ …. I cannot think of another word, except ‘groups’ …. who worked together. ….

As I have also said – on several occasions – the feminist ‘movement’ ( again for want of a better word ) has changed quite dramatically over the years. Changed in format, but never changed in ideals. ……..

and I for one DO support the rights and equality for women. ….

I have no idea why Bishop would find ‘feminism’ so unappealing. She has the right to be where she is — but I also have the right to say I think she was thrown in at the deep end, being given the portfolio she was handed – by a very weird little man who obviously doesn’t like women. She is learning the hard way and has made mistakes …. but she’s getting there ( I think ). The fact that she’s a part ( the only one at that ) … of the 99% male dominated Liberal Party – speaks for itself. …..

I will go so far as to say, I think Abbotts’ appointment of her to that post, was an act of misogyny on his part – an almost cruel thing to do ….. but she has stood up, and she’ll bloodywell show HIM a thing or three. ……. While I cannot agree with her choice of political party, I do hope she shoves it down his throat in spades. For every international blunder HE makes, she has to quiet the waters.

I have no idea if Bishop supports the rights and equality for women. ……. I rather think she avoids the question, the way she avoids questions about her private life.

If there is any further disagreement between us ….. perhaps we should simply ‘agree to disagree’ … although I doubt that would now be necessary ….

Kaye LeeNovember 5, 2014 at 7:17 pm

Perhaps I should have just asked what you think a feminist is since you have proclaimed you aren’t one.

Annie ByamNovember 6, 2014 at 12:57 am

Kaye …

I have responded in as polite a manner as I could …. but I also stood up for myself. I have noted on many occasions you do the same for yourself.

Why are you still hammering on ad infinitum …. ( I am referring to your comment ” since you have proclaimed you aren’t one ” ), if you had read my reply properly.

If you cannot accept that i do indeed ‘ support the rights and equality for women” …. then that is entirely your problem, not mine.

I have assisted a badly beaten woman, at the hands of her mongrel drunkard ‘partner’ ….. when the bastard was too further drunk to remain standing ( that was a ghastly and frightening experience ) ………. THAT …. THAT, Kaye ….. comes under ‘rights for women’ … OR ‘ stop all violence towards women ‘. ….. Being a woman myself — of course I support women, their rights, their safety, and equality – and to have that equality recognised and respected.

How many damned times do I have to make the statement – to get it through your head, and to have you drop the subject .

Just ….. give it a rest will you …….. I am done with the subject.

Have the last say by all means, Kaye if you want ….. .

……….Whatever !!

LeeNovember 6, 2014 at 8:17 am

“I do not come on here to be questioned over my preferences, my ‘feminism’ …. or anything else that is personal. …. and I do think feminism is somewhat ‘personal’.”

You come on here and post your personal opinions, every day, by the metric f*cktonne. Discussions, or those that are the most interesting, go both ways. If someone cannot politely and simply ask you to clarify what you have written without you going into a tailspin, perhaps you should refrain from forcing your opinions on everyone.

Jennifer Meyer-SmithNovember 6, 2014 at 7:25 am

Any woman or man, who is prepared to be counted and, who cares about women and girls’ undisputed equality, their rights to equitable access to diverse opportunities and their rights to recognition for their diverse contributions to the community, these are some ways to define how a person can if they wish, be identified as a Feminist, Women’s Libber, or other respectful title that reflects the magnificence and durability of the Women’s Movement.

I didn’t ask anybody’s permission to call myself a feminist, or a women’s libber 40 years ago. Anybody, who would try to question my dedication to these principles, would make me question their integrity as one themselves: just as anybody, who would denigrate my choice to identify myself as such, would put into question their integrity in terms of equity and equality.

I consider my identification as a Feminist as an honour that I encourage other women and men to share.

Kaye LeeNovember 6, 2014 at 8:38 am

This article is about women who say they advocate equality and women’s rights while stating that they are not feminists. This truly confuses me because that is what a feminist is. I can only assume that the term has negative connotations for some people and I am trying to understand what they are.

Do they feel that feminism implies misandry? Do they feel that it implies aggression? Do they feel it excludes men? Do they think it is an attack on men? Do they think it means one must have short hair and wear overalls and militantly refuse to ever touch a cleaning product? Do they think that women around the world already have self-determination, equal opportunity and merit-based promotion?

I just don’t understand.

LeeNovember 6, 2014 at 8:54 am

I think they are simply liars. Clearly Bishop is not a feminist. Neither is Abbott. Both are trying to bring in changes that will disadvantage women most of all. But when asked outright whether or not they support equality, they say they do because that is what the electorate wants to hear.

Jennifer Meyer-SmithNovember 6, 2014 at 9:48 am

Kaye,

I am both serious and jovial in my response to your paragraph, which is as follows:

My serious answer is yes in that I think some people fear that they will be accused of misandry and aggression. Yes also, I think they wrongly believe that feminism excludes men and attacks them. (I am proud to say that I have overheard my 27 year old son say to his sisters that he is a Feminist.)

I hope feminist-deniers haven’t fallen into the trap of believing that women around the world have self-determination, equal opportunity and merit-based promotion. Anybody with their eyes opened knows this is not the case. It’s not even the case in our alleged 1st world nation where women are disadvantaged because of the assumptions made about their gender or by past assumptions that have limited their choices and now they live with the consequences.

On a lighter note, I recognise myself in your description of short hair, wearing overalls and a militant refusal to touch cleaning products.

I went to the Playboy club in London dressed as such and wearing military boots in 1977, smoked a cigar and was surprised and maybe even a little disappointed that nobody, except the waiter, took any notice of me.

As for the militant refusal to ever touch a cleaning product, I won’t say I never touch one. Infrequently maybe.

Feminism represents all of us and seeks to make a better, fairer world for women which benefits everybody.

Kaye LeeNovember 6, 2014 at 10:04 am

Jennifer,

I agree there is no stereotypical feminist. Feminism has also had benefits for men.

It gave our economy a huge and long-lasting boost as women entered the workforce. It has led to better relationships and more satisfying sex for all concerned. It heightened awareness of gender discrimination helping men who were also victims. Contraception gave men and women more sexual freedom and abortion also gave them an option other than an unsatisfying marriage. It caused the definition of rape to be changed to include men. It gave men more time off to be with their kids. It demanded that the media change its representation of men from the stereotypical macho muscle man and encouraged men to rethink outdated masculinity standards and gender roles. More men entered fields like nursing and teaching.

Annie ByamNovember 6, 2014 at 12:11 pm

Lee …. I am quite overwhelmed by your ‘ kind ‘ words !! ( LOL ).

You are a bit of a riot actually – you do enough ‘f*cktonne’ commentaries yourself – don’t you.

You have posted a ‘personal opinion’ ( about me )…. and have suggested I no longer submit my comments, or in your rather overstated words : ( ” perhaps you should refrain from forcing your opinions on everyone. ” ) ….

It is not possible to FORCE opinions on everyone – or anybody. We read opinions and either agree or disagree – it is a choice, by the reader – there is no force involved. ……… and then the reader decides ( or not ) to reply.

perhaps you don’t quite understand that ?

Which wouldn’t be at all surprising. 🙂

LeeNovember 6, 2014 at 2:52 pm

“Do they feel that feminism implies misandry? Do they feel that it implies aggression? Do they feel it excludes men? Do they think it is an attack on men? Do they think it means one must have short hair and wear overalls and militantly refuse to ever touch a cleaning product?”

It is quite apparent that some people opposed to feminism do believe that all feminists are like that and a minority of self-proclaimed feminists actually are like that. The majority are not though and I do agree with you that when feminism is practised as intended it benefits society as a whole, not just women.

Annie ByamNovember 6, 2014 at 3:28 pm

Kaye …….

……… ( your comment : November 6, 2014 at 8:38 am ….. 2nd paragraph ).

I have one relative, a cousin ( and a dedicated Liberal to boot !!! ) , who does believe ( minus the cleaning product bit ) …. all that you have asked in that paragraph. …. And I do not agree with her – not one iota.

However, I could stand accused of ‘ some ‘ misandry – for certain occasions in my own life, which I am not about to go into detail about — it still can have a deleterious effect ( but lessening over the years ) breaking through from time to time …… but I am not a misandrist by any means.

AND

………… ( your comment : ” I agree there is no stereotypical feminist. ….. Feminism has also had benefits for men.” ).

I totally agree with those two statements.

And therein lies the very succinct clarification of what feminism, was, is, can be and will be.

Overall, it is about respect – 100% across the board. …… unfortunately this still largely male dominated society, have a long way to go to even begin to understand true respect for women, and all that it implies. … Some do, however, and good on them.

Kaye LeeNovember 6, 2014 at 4:03 pm

Annie,

I don’t think you have been guilty of misandry. I think you have been angry with some men for bad things they have done. That does not equate to hating all men.

I also think you are a feminist much as you may eschew the label. There seems to be a concerted campaign to malign the feminist movement and make it a derogatory term.

If you go to the “Women against feminism” facebook page, the latest post says

“I do not need feminism because
I am NOT a victim
I DON’T hate all men
I LOVE my boyfriend
It’s NOT wrong to believe in traditional family values
I take responsibility for MY OWN actions.”

Others say things like “I believe in equality, not supremacy”

It really angers me that these young dolly birds (many posing provocatively with their signs) have reaped the benefits of battles fought and won and so, in their comfortable existence, they are not prepared to fight for other women who are not so lucky. The views expressed by the women on that page are naïve and selfish and show they have no idea of what feminism actually means.

LeeNovember 6, 2014 at 6:32 pm

Oh Annie, I understand far more than you give me credit. I understand you’re a hypocrite. See here you attacked women who go back to work after the birth of their child. https://theaimn.com/pregnant-pause/ I’m using your word there – attacked – because you asked very personal questions of them. Far more personal in my opinion than someone who asks why you don’t identify with being a feminist. By the way, I do believe you when you say you are not a feminist.

Jennifer Meyer-SmithNovember 6, 2014 at 6:43 pm

Kaye,

I’m angered too by this misrepresentation of feminism by those young women that we would want to encourage to understand the value of feminism.

I’m also angered by the laziness in everyday language and conduct that displaces women as equal central representatives of how our society sees itself.

Feminism takes women’s importance, as equals in our society, out of the shadows and back equally front and centre.

KerriNovember 6, 2014 at 6:59 pm

Men do have a fear of accomplished women! If Shorten really was an “economic girlie man” he would possibly be as good as Christine LaGarde? Someone Cormann could never hold a candle to!!

Kaye LeeNovember 6, 2014 at 7:34 pm

My male friends used to jokingly say “We are all scared of you”. My response was “Good. I worked hard for this reputation.” All I ask for is respect, honesty, integrity, compassion and tolerance.

Jennifer Meyer-SmithNovember 6, 2014 at 10:10 pm

We all want the ability to exchange these values with important people in our lives.

In the wider world, another perspective is that despite our frustration that a proportion of the population seems to be unaware or disinterested in sharing these fundamental values, we know there is a significant proportion that does.

The male friends you refer to are males but friends too. My son shares my personal experiences, as do my daughters.

We are people with common experiences, common goals, common bonds. Sharing these important values is a natural progression.

Annie ByamNovember 7, 2014 at 2:30 am

Kaye …

you might have hit a nail on the head there …. I really don’t like labels much, but in looking at what I value most in life, yes then I am a feminist.

Labels tend to ‘stick’ …. and if there has been anti-feminism ( which there has been ) in the past and today, then the label sometimes ( wrongly ) speaks louder than the ideals and battles that many women have won and are winning for respect and equal standing – and understanding from those who would denigrate a person ‘just because she is a woman’. Oh I have known those, for sure.

“What would you know – you’re a woman” ( or worse …. ” you’re just a chick ” ). Ugh.

———

Misandry ? No I don’t hate all men of course, but I was repulsed beyond all imagination ( and sick to my stomach for many weeks ) after what happened to me ( which happens to many many women sadly / unfortunately ) …. I am simply angry now …. but reviled, in shock, wanting to crawl into a corner and hide, and couldn’t tell anybody – back then.

Now in the past.

Annie ByamNovember 7, 2014 at 3:12 am

Lee –

Your opinion means diddly-squat to me.

If you cannot see that my article ” The Pregnant Pause ” was written in the form of questions, then that’s your problem – not mine.

It is none of YOUR business as to who I asked questions of, in my research ( mentioned close to the beginning of my article ) –
and it certainly isn’t up to you to label me as ‘attacking ‘ them –

….. you wouldn’t know would you – you were not there, when those questions were asked.

Sadly, you have been churlish and impudent.

End of ……….

Annie ByamNovember 7, 2014 at 9:15 pm

Not sure how many of the commenters here are on Facebook, but I have subscribed to – and get – daily updates from “Australians Against the Liberal Party ” on my main page. ….. it can be demanding, but I am there to keep in contact with family / friends etc. …. email seems to have been relegated to the ‘out-dated’ basket …. these days. !!

This article has been reprinted on Facebook ( as many AIM articles are ) …….. and this is the link – it you want to read some or all of the comments.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Australians-against-the-Liberal-Party/180330388967?fref=nf

At least, I hope it works. Some interesting ( and somewhat ‘off’ !! ) comments on it. But a few different takes on the matter.

AIM is certainly getting out there …… via Facebook – and other social media ….. which is great.

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Jennifer Meyer-SmithNovember 4, 2014 at 5:47 pm

Tony Abbott, as the Minister for Women, this is yet another example of how when he is associated with something, it immediately is adversely affected like having asbestosis.

I suspect that by his electing to have this extra role, it was his way of insulting feminism and women, who identify as feminists.

From now on, instead of having a separate Ministry for Women, I want to see mandatory and enforceable legislation that relates to every socio-economic, political, legal, industrial, economic and other initiative introduced by government, churches, organisations, private enterprises and any other entities.

After all, women and girls are 50% of the population, so there should be no need for a Minister for Women. We are NOT a minority.

Make the Minister for Women redundant by gender equity enforcement. Make Tony Abbott redundant full stop.
Kaye LeeNovember 4, 2014 at 6:22 pm

It’s not just Bishop and Cash.

Fiona Scott (whose ‘sex appeal’ was praised by Abbott in a press conference) has observed that ‘feminism has a PR problem’. Concetta Fierravanti-Wells – who claims no feminist has ever helped her, showing a remarkable lack of appreciation for history – thinks employment should be governed by “merit and ability to do the job” (a nice idea, if only it were true).

Maybe it’s time we stop politely knocking on that door, and start trying to kick it down.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/whats-so-wrong-with-being-a-feminist-20141103-11g2dw.html#ixzz3I5OJANAQ
RoswellNovember 4, 2014 at 6:32 pm

They’re all over the shop whatever the topic or issue. How’s the latest one? Hunt says direct action will limit the damages of coal while Abbott says coal is good for humanity. They’d make more sense if they said ‘direct action is bad for humanity’. 😯
Kaye LeeNovember 4, 2014 at 6:52 pm

Abbott fobbed Obama off saying he wouldn’t talk about climate change at the G20 but he would talk about “Energy Efficiency”.

Unfortunately, the draft Energy Efficiency Action Plan does not make any mention of climate change, and instead stresses the role of efficiency in boosting energy security and improving “environmental outcomes”.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/g20/climate-change-hopes-for-g20-diminished-20141104-11grej.html
Linda47November 4, 2014 at 7:00 pm

Sounds to me like the women of the Coalition have been instructed to say they are not feminists!
Florence nee FedupNovember 4, 2014 at 7:06 pm

I wonder if Michaela Cash, has any idea what the world was like not so long ago. Does she not understand the changes that have come about by the people she seems to despise.

Yes, remove the word feminism, one comes up with women’s movement. Made up from women from all levels of society. Maybe too many middle class led us astray at times, much was achieved.

Know when I was her age, a woman could not admit themselves to hospital. need the signature of father or husband. Yes, even though I separated with four young children, they were demanding that my ex or father sign me in. Suspected breast cancer. I won that one after much screaming.

My wages were always 75% or less than men, working on the same line. Men always last to go when things slowed down. Not a female leading hand in sight. As well, when on sickness benefit not long before, I receive 75% of that paid to men. Lucky for me, I separated after Whitlam came along with his single mother’s pension.

Now when we came into a little money, I went house hunting, something my ex wanters no part of. A house yes, but you find it. Estate agents where reluctant, in fact one has demand they show property without a male trailing along. Either hubby or father it seems. If want at the time.es t a mortgagee, that was impossible. Only men capable of signing that.

Then there was that little pill that came out at the time. Yes, the pill. Our illustrious male politicians deemed that was one to be only available to married women.

This is only a glimpse of what life was like in the 50’s 60’s and 70’s

We stopped whinging, got out and things changed. Much more needs to be done.

It seems some who are benefitting from the changes, from the women who stood up for a better deal those evil feminist.

They need to remove the blinkers from their eyes, look at the real world around them.
Florence nee FedupNovember 4, 2014 at 7:10 pm

Has anyone noticed, when Abbott talks abut government, he comes across as an observer, not a participant, in fact definitely not as one would expect a PM to talk.
Florence nee FedupNovember 4, 2014 at 7:15 pm

7.30 With the closing down of our oil refineri4es, our supplies re now at risk. We have 12 days supply.
Kaye LeeNovember 4, 2014 at 7:18 pm

Former Liberal senator Judith Troeth says she still thinks “men like to run the show”.

“I think men have an innate fear of capable women at that level, not telling them what to do or certainly putting their views forward and perhaps some of those views being adopted as government policy,” she said.

Senator Boyce added: “I think the problem is that it demonstrates our preselection processes are stuck in the 19th century almost, not even the 20th century.”

“I think it’s shocking and I think it’s embarrassing, and it’s not just embarrassing nationally but I think it’s embarrassing internationally,” Liberal Senator Sue Boyce, who retired in July, said.

We also lost Liberal Senator Judi Moylan who showed courage in crossing the floor on issues such as the ETS and asylum seekers and was an important voice on the rights of women, here and abroad, to control their fertility.

These women did not achieve high office though they showed far more intelligence and integrity than the men Abbott chose to promote to his shadow cabinet. As we know, he considers sex appeal an attribute in his female colleagues so stop being hysterical you women and get back to looking pretty so you can keep that bad husband who is better than no husband at all.
Annie ByamNovember 4, 2014 at 7:32 pm

Naughty Rossleigh …… naughty. …. but a darned good article.

I did cotton on to the comment by Michaela Cash, reposted in your article.

She likes women – she likes men …. hooray – she likes hoomans.

Guess it’s better than liking crocs, tiger snakes, great white sharks, or even – heaven forbid – aliens from another planet. ??

You neglected to mention what porfolios you might give to Christopher Pyne and Scott Morrison !! ………..

I have a few suggestions, but MT would not allow them – cos they seriously wouldn’t be acceptable ( they would be outrageous and unutterably rude, in other words ). But they might well be appropriate. !!! 😉

======

Jennifer Meyer-Smith ……..

I suspect that you are correct. The role of ” Minister for Women ” …. by the very words themselves in the title, is an insult to women. Very definitely so – and meant to be just that, created by the ‘feminist’ Tony Abbott. …… I don’t think any other Government in our history has ever devised a portfolio of that name ….. there has been one of ” Minister for Women’s Affairs ” …. but that means a whole heap of different matters – to do with women – it is not specific, and has a very broad spectrum.

” Minister for Women” ????????????? ….. like women are a commodity, or a ‘thing’ ( like, say Finance ? ) to be addressed as a potential future ‘matter’ to be dealt with ? ….. it was / is a ‘dominant’ stance, and meant to be so.

I am not actually feminist – in the strictest terms of the word – but I am on the side of women – for sure. The moment I heard the Abbott announce himself as “Minister for Women ” ( last year ) ……. I honestly wanted to throw up.
Kaye LeeNovember 4, 2014 at 8:00 pm

Annie, a feminist is someone who advocates or supports the rights and equality of women. Can you tell me why you find that so objectionable that you must distance yourself by saying “I’m not a feminist”, something you have mentioned a few times now?
Matters NotNovember 4, 2014 at 9:45 pm

I am not actually feminist – in the strictest terms of the word

Please explain? So many questions that could be raised, but I think it’s up to you to clarify.

From a male feminist. And proud to affirm.
JasonNovember 5, 2014 at 1:19 am

I am a feminist too!
Kaye LeeNovember 5, 2014 at 6:03 am

As I have mentioned before, I was at Sydney University with Tony. His attitudes and behaviour were deplorable. I know people say that was a long time ago and that we shouldn’t judge people by what they said back then but I am the same age as Tony and his comments and actions were just as unacceptable then as they are now. He has always been threatened by homosexuality (disturbingly so – makes one wonder why), and also by feminists who he considered communist pot-smoking lesbians who were wasting money on trivial gender-based studies.
Kaye LeeNovember 5, 2014 at 6:09 am

To see how much he has changed, recall his answer about Fiona Scott when asked to describe her attributes – feisty with sex appeal (leer). He likes having photos taken with “the ladies” but he prefers us to look pretty and do as we are told. This so makes me cringe. Even James Packer looks decidedly uncomfortable. Tony just doesn’t quite have the “people management” knack.
Annie ByamNovember 5, 2014 at 1:51 pm

Kaye –

I believe you are very much over-reacting to my comments.

I do NOT …… repeat NOT …. find the word feminist, or feminism or anything to do with it …. OBJECTIONABLE !!

Good grief woman, I think you must be having a bad day !!

( your comment : ” Can you tell me why you find that so objectionable that you must distance yourself by saying “I’m not a feminist”, something you have mentioned a few times now? )

If you prefer, I could call myself a feminist – ( ask my husband – he reckons I am one for sure ) !!!!!!!

In that I support the rights and equality of women – then I am feminist.

It’s because I have never actively joined the feminist movement …. e.g. Feminist.com …… or any of the other dozens of on-line sites, or community based ‘feminist’ organisations, demonstrations, meetings et al.

NOW do you get it …….. ?

I do not appreciate being attacked over something that means so many and varied situations ….. feminism …. simply because I have said on a few occasions, that I am not a feminist.

NEXT TIME I MENTION IT ….. should I make sure to add that I do not belong to any feminist movement, organsiation or any on line site ….. just to make YOU feel more comfortable ?

I don’t think so. I simply won’t mention it again.
Annie ByamNovember 5, 2014 at 1:59 pm

Matters Not …….

Please read my reply to Kaye Lee ……… it explains what you have asked.

And that too is my point ………. ” so many questions that could be raised “.

It has so many and varied connotations – both within the feminist movement – and outside of it.

That is from what I have gathered over the years. I doubt anybody could argue with that !

———–

Well anyway – that’s one or two answers !! 🙂
Kaye LeeNovember 5, 2014 at 3:46 pm

Wow….one of us is overreacting and it isn’t me. All I did was ask a simple question. Could you please show me where you were attacked?

Feminism isn’t a club that you join. There may be feminist groups that you can join but the word feminism does not suggest any particular behaviour other than advocating equality of the sexes and it isn’t something you have to sign up to.

I asked the question out of genuine curiosity. Your response was defensive in the extreme and unnecessarily so.

In answer to your question…NO …I cannot understand why anyone would say they are not a feminist because that means you do not support equality which I do not believe is the case with you. I am a feminist and I could list a thousand reasons why. You say you are not a feminist – I was just asking why you make that statement.

Your suggestion that I must be having a bad day is rather annoying actually. You have stated several times that you are not a feminist. It seems to be an increasing trend for women to distance themselves from a movement that has done so much to make the world a better place and not just for women.

“Which part of feminism did Bishop find so unappealing? Is it the part where she is able to be an elected parliamentary representative, or just the part where she’s allowed to vote? Does she balk at the hard-won legislation that has enabled her to control her own fertility (an entitlement which surely proves invaluable to child-free women devoted to their careers) or is it more of an antipathy for the no-fault divorce laws which empowered women to leave abusive or simply unhappy marriages and carve out a better destiny for themselves?

Indeed, there are a number of arguments one could make about Bishop’s opposition to the feminist tag, the simplest of which is that it is categorically selfish to benefit from the hard work of your foremothers only to turn around and claim that you don’t really need it after all.”
Annie ByamNovember 5, 2014 at 4:51 pm

Kaye ……. please read all of this ! There is more to it than might meet the eye at first. ………

Your entire comment was one of questioning me – on a rather personal basis. …. I call that a form of ‘attack’

…. as for over-reaching – over-reacting – perhaps both of us have – huh ?

Your comment ( and I will put in CAPS the words I found to be somewhat ‘off ‘ in that comment )

………… ” Annie, a feminist is someone who advocates or supports the rights and equality of women. Can you tell me why YOU FIND THAT SO OBJECTIONABLE that you must DISTANCE YOURSELF by saying “I’m not a feminist”, something you have mentioned a few times now? ” ………………

I do not come on here to be questioned over my preferences, my ‘feminism’ …. or anything else that is personal. …. and I do think feminism is somewhat ‘personal’.

I answered your questioning …. and although I did NOT have to explain myself, I did so – to make things a little clearer ( I had hoped ).

If you care to – you might re-read my reply ……. it had mainly to do with my not being a part of on-line feminist sites, or joining any formal movement. Do you have ANY idea as to how many sites there are on-line to do with Feminism …. exclusively ? Hundreds – perhaps thousands. So – your remark that ‘feminism isn’t a club that you join’ …. is a little off the mark there. There are many many sites that one has to ‘join’ to be allowed to comment or even access.

—————

Many years back, before the Internet was ever heard of, there were groups of women who joined together to meet – ( not just morning coffees’ and chats ) … to discuss how to better the role of women in those days’ societies. Gosh, even the Suffragettes as far back as 1897 formed

__________the National Union of Women’s Suffrage.____________ ( Millicent Fawcett ) …..

………………..and they were totally vilified, threatened, and cruelly treated.

So there HAS been – historically – ‘clubs’ …. I cannot think of another word, except ‘groups’ …. who worked together. ….

As I have also said – on several occasions – the feminist ‘movement’ ( again for want of a better word ) has changed quite dramatically over the years. Changed in format, but never changed in ideals. ……..

and I for one DO support the rights and equality for women. ….

I have no idea why Bishop would find ‘feminism’ so unappealing. She has the right to be where she is — but I also have the right to say I think she was thrown in at the deep end, being given the portfolio she was handed – by a very weird little man who obviously doesn’t like women. She is learning the hard way and has made mistakes …. but she’s getting there ( I think ). The fact that she’s a part ( the only one at that ) … of the 99% male dominated Liberal Party – speaks for itself. …..

I will go so far as to say, I think Abbotts’ appointment of her to that post, was an act of misogyny on his part – an almost cruel thing to do ….. but she has stood up, and she’ll bloodywell show HIM a thing or three. ……. While I cannot agree with her choice of political party, I do hope she shoves it down his throat in spades. For every international blunder HE makes, she has to quiet the waters.

I have no idea if Bishop supports the rights and equality for women. ……. I rather think she avoids the question, the way she avoids questions about her private life.

If there is any further disagreement between us ….. perhaps we should simply ‘agree to disagree’ … although I doubt that would now be necessary ….
Kaye LeeNovember 5, 2014 at 7:17 pm

Perhaps I should have just asked what you think a feminist is since you have proclaimed you aren’t one.
Annie ByamNovember 6, 2014 at 12:57 am

Kaye …

I have responded in as polite a manner as I could …. but I also stood up for myself. I have noted on many occasions you do the same for yourself.

Why are you still hammering on ad infinitum …. ( I am referring to your comment ” since you have proclaimed you aren’t one ” ), if you had read my reply properly.

If you cannot accept that i do indeed ‘ support the rights and equality for women” …. then that is entirely your problem, not mine.

I have assisted a badly beaten woman, at the hands of her mongrel drunkard ‘partner’ ….. when the bastard was too further drunk to remain standing ( that was a ghastly and frightening experience ) ………. THAT …. THAT, Kaye ….. comes under ‘rights for women’ … OR ‘ stop all violence towards women ‘. ….. Being a woman myself — of course I support women, their rights, their safety, and equality – and to have that equality recognised and respected.

How many damned times do I have to make the statement – to get it through your head, and to have you drop the subject .

Just ….. give it a rest will you …….. I am done with the subject.

Have the last say by all means, Kaye if you want ….. .

……….Whatever !!
LeeNovember 6, 2014 at 8:17 am

“I do not come on here to be questioned over my preferences, my ‘feminism’ …. or anything else that is personal. …. and I do think feminism is somewhat ‘personal’.”

You come on here and post your personal opinions, every day, by the metric f*cktonne. Discussions, or those that are the most interesting, go both ways. If someone cannot politely and simply ask you to clarify what you have written without you going into a tailspin, perhaps you should refrain from forcing your opinions on everyone.
Jennifer Meyer-SmithNovember 6, 2014 at 7:25 am

Any woman or man, who is prepared to be counted and, who cares about women and girls’ undisputed equality, their rights to equitable access to diverse opportunities and their rights to recognition for their diverse contributions to the community, these are some ways to define how a person can if they wish, be identified as a Feminist, Women’s Libber, or other respectful title that reflects the magnificence and durability of the Women’s Movement.

I didn’t ask anybody’s permission to call myself a feminist, or a women’s libber 40 years ago. Anybody, who would try to question my dedication to these principles, would make me question their integrity as one themselves: just as anybody, who would denigrate my choice to identify myself as such, would put into question their integrity in terms of equity and equality.

I consider my identification as a Feminist as an honour that I encourage other women and men to share.
Kaye LeeNovember 6, 2014 at 8:38 am

This article is about women who say they advocate equality and women’s rights while stating that they are not feminists. This truly confuses me because that is what a feminist is. I can only assume that the term has negative connotations for some people and I am trying to understand what they are.

Do they feel that feminism implies misandry? Do they feel that it implies aggression? Do they feel it excludes men? Do they think it is an attack on men? Do they think it means one must have short hair and wear overalls and militantly refuse to ever touch a cleaning product? Do they think that women around the world already have self-determination, equal opportunity and merit-based promotion?

I just don’t understand.
LeeNovember 6, 2014 at 8:54 am

I think they are simply liars. Clearly Bishop is not a feminist. Neither is Abbott. Both are trying to bring in changes that will disadvantage women most of all. But when asked outright whether or not they support equality, they say they do because that is what the electorate wants to hear.
Jennifer Meyer-SmithNovember 6, 2014 at 9:48 am

Kaye,

I am both serious and jovial in my response to your paragraph, which is as follows:

Do they feel that feminism implies misandry? Do they feel that it implies aggression? Do they feel it excludes men? Do they think it is an attack on men? Do they think it means one must have short hair and wear overalls and militantly refuse to ever touch a cleaning product? Do they think that women around the world already have self-determination, equal opportunity and merit-based promotion?

My serious answer is yes in that I think some people fear that they will be accused of misandry and aggression. Yes also, I think they wrongly believe that feminism excludes men and attacks them. (I am proud to say that I have overheard my 27 year old son say to his sisters that he is a Feminist.)

I hope feminist-deniers haven’t fallen into the trap of believing that women around the world have self-determination, equal opportunity and merit-based promotion. Anybody with their eyes opened knows this is not the case. It’s not even the case in our alleged 1st world nation where women are disadvantaged because of the assumptions made about their gender or by past assumptions that have limited their choices and now they live with the consequences.

On a lighter note, I recognise myself in your description of short hair, wearing overalls and a militant refusal to touch cleaning products.

I went to the Playboy club in London dressed as such and wearing military boots in 1977, smoked a cigar and was surprised and maybe even a little disappointed that nobody, except the waiter, took any notice of me.

As for the militant refusal to ever touch a cleaning product, I won’t say I never touch one. Infrequently maybe.

Feminism represents all of us and seeks to make a better, fairer world for women which benefits everybody.
Kaye LeeNovember 6, 2014 at 10:04 am

Jennifer,

I agree there is no stereotypical feminist. Feminism has also had benefits for men.

It gave our economy a huge and long-lasting boost as women entered the workforce. It has led to better relationships and more satisfying sex for all concerned. It heightened awareness of gender discrimination helping men who were also victims. Contraception gave men and women more sexual freedom and abortion also gave them an option other than an unsatisfying marriage. It caused the definition of rape to be changed to include men. It gave men more time off to be with their kids. It demanded that the media change its representation of men from the stereotypical macho muscle man and encouraged men to rethink outdated masculinity standards and gender roles. More men entered fields like nursing and teaching.
Annie ByamNovember 6, 2014 at 12:11 pm

Lee …. I am quite overwhelmed by your ‘ kind ‘ words !! ( LOL ).

You are a bit of a riot actually – you do enough ‘f*cktonne’ commentaries yourself – don’t you.

You have posted a ‘personal opinion’ ( about me )…. and have suggested I no longer submit my comments, or in your rather overstated words : ( ” perhaps you should refrain from forcing your opinions on everyone. ” ) ….

It is not possible to FORCE opinions on everyone – or anybody. We read opinions and either agree or disagree – it is a choice, by the reader – there is no force involved. ……… and then the reader decides ( or not ) to reply.

perhaps you don’t quite understand that ?

Which wouldn’t be at all surprising. 🙂
LeeNovember 6, 2014 at 2:52 pm

“Do they feel that feminism implies misandry? Do they feel that it implies aggression? Do they feel it excludes men? Do they think it is an attack on men? Do they think it means one must have short hair and wear overalls and militantly refuse to ever touch a cleaning product?”

It is quite apparent that some people opposed to feminism do believe that all feminists are like that and a minority of self-proclaimed feminists actually are like that. The majority are not though and I do agree with you that when feminism is practised as intended it benefits society as a whole, not just women.
Annie ByamNovember 6, 2014 at 3:28 pm

Kaye …….

……… ( your comment : November 6, 2014 at 8:38 am ….. 2nd paragraph ).

I have one relative, a cousin ( and a dedicated Liberal to boot !!! ) , who does believe ( minus the cleaning product bit ) …. all that you have asked in that paragraph. …. And I do not agree with her – not one iota.

However, I could stand accused of ‘ some ‘ misandry – for certain occasions in my own life, which I am not about to go into detail about — it still can have a deleterious effect ( but lessening over the years ) breaking through from time to time …… but I am not a misandrist by any means.

AND

………… ( your comment : ” I agree there is no stereotypical feminist. ….. Feminism has also had benefits for men.” ).

I totally agree with those two statements.

And therein lies the very succinct clarification of what feminism, was, is, can be and will be.

Overall, it is about respect – 100% across the board. …… unfortunately this still largely male dominated society, have a long way to go to even begin to understand true respect for women, and all that it implies. … Some do, however, and good on them.
Kaye LeeNovember 6, 2014 at 4:03 pm

Annie,

I don’t think you have been guilty of misandry. I think you have been angry with some men for bad things they have done. That does not equate to hating all men.

I also think you are a feminist much as you may eschew the label. There seems to be a concerted campaign to malign the feminist movement and make it a derogatory term.

If you go to the “Women against feminism” facebook page, the latest post says

“I do not need feminism because
I am NOT a victim
I DON’T hate all men
I LOVE my boyfriend
It’s NOT wrong to believe in traditional family values
I take responsibility for MY OWN actions.”

Others say things like “I believe in equality, not supremacy”

It really angers me that these young dolly birds (many posing provocatively with their signs) have reaped the benefits of battles fought and won and so, in their comfortable existence, they are not prepared to fight for other women who are not so lucky. The views expressed by the women on that page are naïve and selfish and show they have no idea of what feminism actually means.
LeeNovember 6, 2014 at 6:32 pm

Oh Annie, I understand far more than you give me credit. I understand you’re a hypocrite. See here you attacked women who go back to work after the birth of their child. https://theaimn.com/pregnant-pause/ I’m using your word there – attacked – because you asked very personal questions of them. Far more personal in my opinion than someone who asks why you don’t identify with being a feminist. By the way, I do believe you when you say you are not a feminist.
Jennifer Meyer-SmithNovember 6, 2014 at 6:43 pm

Kaye,

I’m angered too by this misrepresentation of feminism by those young women that we would want to encourage to understand the value of feminism.

I’m also angered by the laziness in everyday language and conduct that displaces women as equal central representatives of how our society sees itself.

Feminism takes women’s importance, as equals in our society, out of the shadows and back equally front and centre.
KerriNovember 6, 2014 at 6:59 pm

Men do have a fear of accomplished women! If Shorten really was an “economic girlie man” he would possibly be as good as Christine LaGarde? Someone Cormann could never hold a candle to!!
Kaye LeeNovember 6, 2014 at 7:34 pm

My male friends used to jokingly say “We are all scared of you”. My response was “Good. I worked hard for this reputation.” All I ask for is respect, honesty, integrity, compassion and tolerance.
Jennifer Meyer-SmithNovember 6, 2014 at 10:10 pm

We all want the ability to exchange these values with important people in our lives.

In the wider world, another perspective is that despite our frustration that a proportion of the population seems to be unaware or disinterested in sharing these fundamental values, we know there is a significant proportion that does.

The male friends you refer to are males but friends too. My son shares my personal experiences, as do my daughters.

We are people with common experiences, common goals, common bonds. Sharing these important values is a natural progression.
Annie ByamNovember 7, 2014 at 2:30 am

Kaye …

you might have hit a nail on the head there …. I really don’t like labels much, but in looking at what I value most in life, yes then I am a feminist.

Labels tend to ‘stick’ …. and if there has been anti-feminism ( which there has been ) in the past and today, then the label sometimes ( wrongly ) speaks louder than the ideals and battles that many women have won and are winning for respect and equal standing – and understanding from those who would denigrate a person ‘just because she is a woman’. Oh I have known those, for sure.

“What would you know – you’re a woman” ( or worse …. ” you’re just a chick ” ). Ugh.

———

Misandry ? No I don’t hate all men of course, but I was repulsed beyond all imagination ( and sick to my stomach for many weeks ) after what happened to me ( which happens to many many women sadly / unfortunately ) …. I am simply angry now …. but reviled, in shock, wanting to crawl into a corner and hide, and couldn’t tell anybody – back then.

Now in the past.
Annie ByamNovember 7, 2014 at 3:12 am

Lee –

Your opinion means diddly-squat to me.

If you cannot see that my article ” The Pregnant Pause ” was written in the form of questions, then that’s your problem – not mine.

It is none of YOUR business as to who I asked questions of, in my research ( mentioned close to the beginning of my article ) –
and it certainly isn’t up to you to label me as ‘attacking ‘ them –

….. you wouldn’t know would you – you were not there, when those questions were asked.

Sadly, you have been churlish and impudent.

End of ……….
Annie ByamNovember 7, 2014 at 9:15 pm

Not sure how many of the commenters here are on Facebook, but I have subscribed to – and get – daily updates from “Australians Against the Liberal Party ” on my main page. ….. it can be demanding, but I am there to keep in contact with family / friends etc. …. email seems to have been relegated to the ‘out-dated’ basket …. these days. !!

This article has been reprinted on Facebook ( as many AIM articles are ) …….. and this is the link – it you want to read some or all of the comments.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Australians-against-the-Liberal-Party/180330388967?fref=nf

At least, I hope it works. Some interesting ( and somewhat ‘off’ !! ) comments on it. But a few different takes on the matter.

AIM is certainly getting out there …… via Facebook – and other social media ….. which is great.

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