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Day to Day Politics: Not a coherent word did she utter.

Wednesday 20 July 2016

The debacle that was Pauline Hanson on Q&A Monday night serves to remind us just how counterproductive appearances on television by people like her can be. This was manifestly demonstrated by the person who suggested that instead of bringing people together as ‘One Nation’ she was actually dividing us.

You cannot deny her right to be heard, of course. All we can do is counter it with the truth.

I don’t think I have ever seen a leader of a political party so unable to factually articulate just what it is she believes in. So appalling was her appearance on the show that I actually felt a tinge of sadness for this woman that surrounds herself with ill-informed people who feed her the garbage she espouses.

People say that she should be respected for the fact that she has gained a seat or two in the senate. If by this they mean respect for the institution of which she will be a member, that’s fine. If they mean respect for what she and her party represent then I’m sorry. She is a racist of the worst kind. One who hasn’t a clue as to what she is talking about.

Instead of reacting with anger at her absurd inability to apply judicious thought to her many wrong assumptions we should with logical and reasonable redress set the facts right. This is how Sam Dastyari managed to ridicule her. He put a simple proposition to Miss Hanson about her policy of ending Muslim immigration:

“When I look at Ms Hanson’s policy document that says we should be banning Muslims from coming to this country, I have to ask: does that mean that a five-year-old Sam Dastyari should never have been able to set foot in Australia, because somewhere in Tehran there’s a document that says beside my name the word ‘Muslim’, because of where I was born?”

Hanson in disbelief looked at Dastyari as if she was looking at a vampire.

“Are you a Muslim?” she asked. “Really?” with incredulity she looked ready to go for his jugular.

Dastyari suggested Hanson was mocking him to undermine his point about immigration, but she seemed like she wanted blood but couldn’t get her teeth into him.

“You’re a practising Muslim? This is quite interesting,” she said. “I’m surprised. I did not know that about you.”

Larissa Waters, the Queensland Greens senator, interjected: “Why, because he doesn’t have three heads?”

All Hanson could manage to do was look at him like he was some sort of freak.

The whole programme was like watching a character implosion of the worst kind. The audience asked intelligent questions and received answers straight out of the Pauline Hanson book of untruthful answers.

“We are a Christian country and I don’t believe that Islam is compatible with our culture and our way of life.”

We are not and the next census will prove it.

“People in Australia are in fear because they can’t walk in the streets.”

The last time I went to Melbourne it was its usual congested self.

Q&A audience member, Cronulla man Khaled Elomar, got it right when he said he explained Islamophobia to his son by showing the 11-year-old videos of Ms Hanson.

“You are creating a dysfunctional country by isolating a religion, 20 years ago isolating a race, and if you keep on going down this track I will fear for my wife’s life, I will fear for my kid’s life,” he said.

Sam Dastyari also got it right when he said that Hanson had been at it for twenty years. First it was our indigenous folk then Asians and now Muslims.

But let’s put aside her outrageous performance on the Q&A program and look at the bare facts of what she actually represents.

Pauline Hanson has made a list of demands to Malcolm Turnbull for her support of his new government in the Senate.

They include the following (with some added historical facts in italics):

A. Abolish the Family Court.

The Family Court of Australia was established in 1976 by the passing of the Family Law Act 1975. It has made it fairer and easier for married couples and families to resolve disputes.

B. Ban the certification and sale of Halal food in Australia.

She wants Halal certified food banned in prisons or the armed services as Halal certification is being “used to fund Islamic terrorist organisations” (One Nation HALAL CERTIFICATION Policy Statement 2016).Halal certification in Australia began in 1974.

A number of Australian federal inquiries have already been done into alleged links between Halal certification and terrorism and none has been found.

C. Ban all people from Muslim countries from migrating to Australia.

People from Muslim countries have been settling in Australia since at least 1860.

More recently many have made a fine contribution to Australia. This of course is based on her statement that people are afraid to walk the streets. It is a spurious argument and needs to be looked at with some disdain. It seems that it is one thing to, at the drop of a hat, find $500 million to train foreign soldiers in a far off land and $632million for ASIO to fight a terrorist threat (April 2015) that has resulted in 113 deaths in 36 (On Australian soil) years but cut funding for Suicide and Domestic violence that will combined, probably result in the deaths of around 3500 this year. Where is the objective thinking?

When there is no reasoned thought we are left to conclude that it’s racism.

Do we ban young good-looking long-haired blue-eyed boys from entering Tasmania?

Do we ban men from teaching in Catholic schools?

D. Ban the establishment of all new mosques in Australia and require the installation of CCTV cameras in existing mosques to be monitored by Australian security forces (One Nation Islam Policy Statement April 26, 2016).

The first mosque in Australia was built-in 1861 at Marree, South Australia. The Great Mosque of Adelaide was built-in 1888 by the descendants of the Afghan cameleers.

To deny people a place of worship must surely be a crime in itself.

E. Reintroduce the ban on gays and lesbians serving in the Australian Defence Force.

The ban on LGBTs in the Australian military was lifted in 1992.

If my life was in danger and the only one who save me was gay, I don’t think I would discriminate. Ashby is now advising her. I wonder how he feels about this. Perhaps she is that ignorant she doesnt know he is gay.

F. Stop federal funding of immunisation programmes as “vaccines may cause autism”.

(Pauline Hanson Tuesday, 5 July 2016). Australian government funding of childhood vaccination commenced in 1932 and is based solely on science. Perhaps an enquiry into where she gets he information from would be more advisable.

G. A Royal Commission “into the corruption of climate science”, the CSIRO and the Australian Bureau of Meteorology.

(One Nation AFFORDABLE ENERGY – CLIMATE SCIENCE Policy Statement 2016).

Prime Minister Tony Abbott attempted to set up an investigation into alleged ‘exaggerated’ Bureau of Meteorology temperature data in September 2014.

The suggestion was thrown out by Abbott’s own Cabinet.

At the time Prime Minister Abbott cited articles published by the Australian newspaper by far Right commentators who “accused [the bureau] of altering its temperature data records to exaggerate estimates of global warming”. Ban wind turbines in Australia. AFFORDABLE ENERGY – CLIMATE SCIENCE Policy Statement 2016).

This suggestion borders on madness and after many years of peer group back up confirmation of the science it is now universally accepted as fact. But with an adviser like Malcolm Roberts you can see why they are so deluded.

Pauline Hanson has been getting her facts wrong for as long as she has been opening her ubiquitous mouth. We all really, rather than allowing her too much prime time, need to defeat her twaddle with factual truth.

Mt thought for the day.

I dont mind you having a different opinion to me but please dont create your own facts to support your view.”

 

147 comments

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  1. Jaquix

    The resurgence of Hansonism reminds me of another country which had high unemployment, financial woes and people dissatisfied with their government. A new PM was democratically elected. He immediately scapegoated a minority race, many of whom had lived in the country for generations, whose families had made significant contributions to society. The PM was an insignificant tradesman who knew how to appeal to, manipulate and mesmerise vast crowds with his apparent “charisma”. His name was Adolf Hitler.

  2. Richard Schmidt

    Oh my, so we are not the only people on Earth who might elect a total idiot, buffoon, clown, racist, misogynist, homophobic moron into high office??

  3. Jaquix

    The new Philippines PM/President who immediately issued the order to citizens to “go out and kill a drug dealer” was also democratically elected (apparently) so no, unfortunately we are not the only ones.

  4. Freethinker

    I said in other AIMN article that Hanson is not unique, there is a mad and ignorant man in Venezuela and a possible leader in USA.
    Their are the product of government policies that have increased the gap between the rich and the poor and also increased the number of people left out altogether.
    IMO there will keep coming more people like Pauline from their caves and people will vote for them.

  5. Osiris

    @Jaquix: “The PM was an insignificant tradesman who knew how to appeal to, manipulate and mesmerise vast crowds with his apparent “charisma”. His name was Adolf Hitler.”

    I think Jiddu Krishnamurti explained it well: “Hitler and Mussolini were only the primary spokesmen for the attitude of domination and craving for power that are in the heart of almost everyone. Until the source is cleared, there will always be confusion and hate, wars and class antagonisms.”

    In other words: “This City is what it is because our citizens are what they are.” Plato

  6. Pli

    You are wrong u can’t argue reasonably with a narrow minded bigoted racist idiot she’s had 20 years out of politics to allow her the time for the sore of frustration to fester and to grow into a giant carbuncle of hate, and u think a few reasonable arguments will sway her myopic views. The only way to beat her is at the source and show her like the aboriginal activist last week end that her views were not wanted around their meeting place he shamed her , if you do not she will become more strident in attracting followers.

  7. Zathras

    Hanson’s only value may be that she is a one-stop shop to address several radical misconceptions where they may eventually be debated and dismantled.

    Her gullibility and lack of self-restraint may one day cause her to over-reach and may yet disenfranchise many of her supporters.

    How soon before she talks about the beliefs of her running mate that the banks, the UN and the IPCC are part of a vast global conspiracy?

    She is also a magnet for several racist neo-Nazi groups and her anti-Halal stance recalls the work of commentator Wally Butterworth back in the sixties.
    He was the recruiter for the virulently anti-Kosher organisation The American Christian Voters and Buyers League, which was just a shop-front for the Ku Klux Klan.

  8. bearbrooke

    John I’m in accord with every judgement you make about Hanson and what she represents.

    Quoting from your essay: “Pauline Hanson has been getting her facts wrong for as long as she has been opening her ubiquitous mouth. We … need to defeat her twaddle with factual truth.”

    I am afraid her twaddle is ubiquitous. I am afraid factual truth will not dissuade her nor her thousands of followers.

    My neighbour is like others I meet. He is a kind and generous man and a considerate friend. Yet he agrees with much that she espouses. I bombard him with facts, his eyes glaze over, my facts are dross, climate change is rubbish, Moslems are a threat, homosexuality is nasty and aberrant.

    I am careful with my neighbour. His opinions are often emotionally charged. He watched QandA and he thought everyone was ganging up on Pauline and that upset him. He listened to the arguments put against her, and still his prejudices accorded with hers, and even (it seemed to me) became more deeply entrenched. He mirrored the passion and the tremor in her voice.

    How do I find a way past my neighbours deeply felt outpourings? How do I get Hanson to speak to me sensibly? How do I get her to listen? I don’t know. Judging by what I saw on QandA, nor do others. Yet we must.

  9. Miriam English

    Hanson’s inability think clearly or give voice to a logically connected train of thought reminds me ominously of Joh Bjelke Peterson. The ignorant, Christian racists fawned over him. He was their man. His bumbling, stumbling, disconnected speech and circular thinking only served to endear him to them. Here was a politician who spoke and thought like them! He attended church and talked the way they did! He must be a good man. Those bumpkins never saw the seething mass of corruption under his surface.

    I don’t think Pauline Hanson is very corrupt yet… but give it a little more time. All that money flowing from right-wing extremists and fossil fuel companies will be irresistible. Even the Labor Party, with its left-leaning culture is being poisoned by money from fossil fuels and ideas from the right-wing propaganda machine. And she’s not that intelligent to begin with.

  10. Bighead1883

    Thank you John Lord for putting up the One Nation policies along with your article
    This of course gives the reader a direct correlation of what Ms Hanson believes in

    On the one hand she decries Muslims/Islam with a similar vein as her her previous Asian immigration and then proceeds to espouse her denigration of Halal foodstuffs with out learning just what this all entails
    A simple Google search clears the air and would make her realise that the Halal slaughter of animals allows the stunning of animals so they bleed out whilst unconscious> The vast majority of halal slaughter in Australia (including at export abattoirs) complies with this standard, that is, all animals are stunned prior to slaughter. > http://kb.rspca.org.au/what-is-halal-slaughter-in-australia_116.html

    As opposed to Kosher {Israeli/Jewish} which doesn`t Here>The national standard for meat production in Australia is that all animals must be effectively stunned (unconscious) prior to slaughter. Kosher slaughter does not comply with this standard.> http://kb.rspca.org.au/what-is-kosher-slaughter-in-australia_117.html

    Now I`m not defending Pauline Hanson or her uneducated bigotry I`m explaining what is not common knowledge so we too are not ignorant
    So John the question comes to mind,would Pauline Hanson accept a home dinner invite from an Israeli/Jewish person seeing as AIJAC lobbies our government so heavily even changing official language from “Occupied to Disputed”

    The One Nation supporters + {Reclaim Australia,Australia First Party] have a great aversion to immigration from the Middle East claiming jobs are being stolen and we`ll all end up under Sharia Law and have terrorism like overseas here
    It doesn`t matter to them that facts do not support this and they can`t correlate that bombing their countries to steal their resources [not the bullshit democracy the media peddles for the US/Israel] will create more refugees
    SO who bombs Iraq and Syria now?
    1-USA-2 UK-3 France-4 Germany-5 Canada-6 Australia etc

    I ask a simple question in this meme>

    Yet those supporting these horrors include the majority who voted in this LNP government and they aren`t One Nation or Reclaim Australia or Australia First Party,they are your neighbours >

    Also John I noticed Ms Hanson reviling her wrongful jailing yesterday and naming Abbott/Howard and Beattie as those responsible as well as thanking those who repaid the AEC a $1/2 million given her as per votes gained,but reminding people supporters have not been compensated for this
    So what flak this will cause in any Senate negotiation is anyone`s guess

    Thank you for an excellent article John Lord and your baseline is correct-we must fight her ignorance and prejudices because the MSM will only fan it as suits

  11. Rocky

    Why doesn’t she call for the banning of all new catholic churches being built? There have been far more people harmed in Australia by the actions of paedophile clergy than Muslims.

  12. Miriam English

    And that’s how she can be defeated. Wait for her to become snared by the sticky mess of corrupt money and then expose her pestilential associations.

  13. Bighead1883

    I forgot to add John,how good it was to see Mr Yanner deny her and 60 Minutes entry into the Cairns Aboriginal Arts Festival

    This was a deliberate set up by 60 Minutes and not on Hanson {she was in on it} but on the Aboriginal Community in Cairns

  14. Freethinker

    Meanwhile up north, just in the news: Donald Trump clinches Republican nomination at national convention
    It does not look good for USA and the world for that matter.

  15. Shogan

    Oh my god, it looks like this is the price we have to pay for one man’s ego to be an elected Prime Minister…an ego so powerful that he couldn’t wait an extra 3 months for a normal election & by calling a double dissolution lowered the quota for senators which has enabled One Nation to gain more than just a foot in the door…if people think the gauntlet of opposing protesters heralding the arrival of Pauline Hanson to Q&A on Monday night was outrageous all I can say is, you ain’t seen nothing yet!!

    With some help from Sonya Kruger there is a survey going around that has more than 80% support for stopping the intake of Muslims into Australia…on Tuesday I watched the anti-Muslim hate blossom over many Facebook sites I follow that by evening had reached a crescendo of hate filled bile & it’s only been a week & a half since the outcome of the election became clear.

    I hope you’re happy with the result Malcolm, but I for one no longer think it’s an exciting time be an Australian!!

  16. lawrencewinder

    Bloody hell… the Liarbrils are going to make mince-meat of Hanson… watching her on QandA she’s not even out of her depth …she hasn’t even got into the water yet! They will manipulate her for their own ends and she wont even know.
    The stupid woman was sitting next to Sam Dastyari unaware he was a Muslim till he informed her….this dim, Deep Northern racist is so “ahead of the game” that she missed all the media coverage of him taking his oath of office on the Koran back in 2013 and obviously hadn’t done any research on the other QandA panelists either as she seemed utterly unprepared for the obvious questions both from them and the audience.
    She can only respond in an animated fashion to populist raving and any serious questions leave her confused, confounded and tongue-tied.
    It’s also worth remembering that 20 years ago Hanson once held pre-selection for the LNP in Queensland, until Little Johnnie Howard, (under much pressure) had her candidacy revoked because of her racist utterings toward Indigenous Australians and Asian migration.
    Just another telling episode in the evidence of the ruling rabble’s sorry management skills in the selection of appropriately qualified candidates for Canberra!

    But Hanson serves her purpose. All the rednecks can get their rocks off spreading fear and fright whilst the Liarbrils wring their hands and quietly get on with the IPA agenda of dismembering what’s left of a civil society.

    shanewonbat.blogspot.com

  17. Florence nee Fedup

    Reminds me of when I was a kid, the refugees coming in from post war Europe. Yes today’s attack on Muslims is some ways mild compare to what many received then. Has a aunty that it is true to say, was a little racist until her father, my grandfather pulled her into line.

    She lived in Matraville, a area that many refugees were housed in the Bunnerong Centre.

    Very verbal she was about the reffos and what they were doing to Australia. My mother pointed out that she had Chinese neighbours and another refugee neighbour she was great friends with, admire greatly. Her reply would apply today. Yes these women were different to other refugees.

    My pop then asked her, where did my father come from. France of course. He then asked her what colour was his skin. White of course. His reply was “are you sure”. Never heard another racist word from her. (Was white from north of France).

    Truth is it is hard to be racist when one lives and works among these people. One soon learns they are like all other people, good, bad and middling.

    Funny, the thing I remember mostly is the smell of garlic, when on trams and crowded places. Made one gasp, hold one’s breath. Today, I suspect we all smell the same. Same goes for Cabramatta, many of the strange smells from some their foods no longer noticed.

    I think Pauline got a shock finding out Dastyari was a Muslim. Didn’t fit in with conception of these people. Seemed amazed that many don’t take religion as serious as she does,

    When are they going to question her commitment to Christianity, asked whether she is practicing of not.

  18. helvityni

    Pauline dearest ,I’d like to know you better, so please tell me what are your thoughts on:

    gambling, homelessness, alcoholism, drug addiction, youth suicide, paedophilia, mental health, horse/dog racing, obesity, climate change, domestic violence, inequality in in our education system, aboriginal affairs, cost of home ownership…and SSM…

  19. Freethinker

    helvityni, she have her policies on climate change which does not exist and domestic violence which is a woman thing and the men are the victims

  20. Florence nee Fedup

    Her attack on Family Court, DV and Family Court just as worrying. Not because there aren’t problems with all, but because of what she sees as solutions. She seems to have taken under her wing all disgruntled separated fathers who believe the system allows women to fleeced them.

  21. Florence nee Fedup

    Little Johnny had to pull her into line, as his own racist remarks against Asians helped lose him an election. Probably help later on, to lose him his seat.

  22. Osiris

    @Bearbrooke: “My neighbour is like others I meet. He is a kind and generous man and a considerate friend. Yet he agrees with much that she espouses. I bombard him with facts, his eyes glaze over, my facts are dross, climate change is rubbish, Moslems are a threat, homosexuality is nasty and aberrant.”

    I’d say most of us know a neighbour, a family member or a colleague from work who sounds like that. Bigoted thinking is all around us everywhere.

    “The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you’re inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it.” Morpheus’ words to Neo from the movie The Matrix.

    Bearbrooke quote:How do I find a way past my neighbours deeply felt outpourings? How do I get Hanson to speak to me sensibly? How do I get her to listen? I don’t know. Judging by what I saw on QandA, nor do others. Yet we must.”

    Once you explain to them their mistaken philosophy, there’s not much you can do, if they refuse to understand. We can educate and lead by example and that’s really all anyone can do. Ultimately everybody answers for his or her own actions and wrong ideology.

  23. Florence nee Fedup

    helvityni, she has policies on most of what you have mentioned. Sides with badly done by husbands. More worrying than her racism.

  24. Florence nee Fedup

    Aiming at changing Pauline waste time, impossible. Attack and disapprove her messages the way to go.

  25. helvityni

    Freethinker, oops I forgot, her ‘advisors’ are all men.

    She thought Sam Dastyari was just another male victim of DV, until she found out that he was a Muslim male…

  26. John Oliver

    Ms Hanson has managed to get a senate seat by piggy backing on the last 3 years of 12 flag scare mongering about the Muslim hordes looking to destroy Australia. If that list of ‘Demands’ is even vaguely correct I suggest she is suffering a significant mental illness. I can guarantee that if that was actually delivered to Malcolm he would be doubled over in uncontrollable laughter. If not just at it’s stupidity, but hers. What gets me is the Family Court demand. Did Pauline get screwed over at some point? Also, if you are a gay or lesbian Muslim serving in the military are you to be put to death? I actually despise this woman for all she represents. Division and Hate she be on her One Nation banner.

  27. jimhaz

    [Also, if you are a gay or lesbian Muslim serving in the military are you to be put to death?]

    Your fantasies about her views are little different than her own fantasies, as is your hatred of those who do not agree with your apparently minority view regarding muslim immigration.

  28. kerri

    If you watch that ep of Q&A, from the very first question, which was answered by Larissa Waters, Pauline sets herself up as the victim. There are many questions which she comments along the lines of “i know that was directed at me”. She will play the victim when it suits and sadly this sucks in those with as much intelligence as she has.
    The Aboriginal leader was right. She is a redneck. Almost defines Australian Rednecks.
    Dastyari hit the nail on the head when he said she had been creating division for 20 years and is very good at it. If you watch that bit, she smiles for a second mistaking his comment for a compliment.
    She was a complete blank on most questions and just went back to her standard talking points.
    I hope no one in the muslim community chooses to take physical action against her as it will simply fuel the “burning martyr” image she likes to project in the same way that Abbott’s actions to jail her have garnered support from people whose concept of a good politician is someone who speaks in words of less than 3 syllables and looks pretty.
    Oh and white of course!
    John Oliver, to have a mental illness one must first have a brain!

  29. Jaquix

    Yes I loved Sam Dastyari’s killer line – youve been doing it for 20 years Pauline, and you’re very good at it. She was actually stumped by that one! I suspect her adding the Family Court to her list of grievances (sorry, policies) was pandering to the blokes – many probably from Reclaim – who feel hard done by, by the Family Court. Rightly or wrongly. The Court could probably do with a serious review, and that may be occurring anyway, in relation to the new attention that Domestic Violence is getting.

  30. Wayne Turner

    “I don’t think I have ever seen a leader of a political party so unable to factually articulate just what it is she believes in” – Tony Abbott too.Um,eh,um’s,empty slogans,lies and wrecking without facts in sight.

    She is ignorant,just like those that voted for her.She loves the gravy train,and she is back on it..

  31. kerri

    And Jimhaz you are wrong!
    It is not a majority who want to ban Muslim immigration as the audience on Monday night clearly demonstrated. It is merely a majority of the ignorant, bellowing portion of our population.
    As Larissa Waters pointed out, we have bombed their homes in our exPM’s passion to create a name for himself. It is we western nations who have created Daesh and as a consequence have driven many peaceful Muslims, who DO NOT follow Daesh from their homes.
    And now we tell them to go somewhere else because a bellowing majority of us are too thick and too arrogant to recognise we Made them refugees!
    We would achieve more in terms of peace in our little corner of the world by supporting the refugees who have escaped the chaos we created for them.
    And as for being a “Christian” nation? What sort of Christians lock children in detention where they are subjected to discomfort, indignity and sexual assault?
    I am so glad I am not a “Christian” as given the history of genocide in the name of God and child abuse at the hands of his acolytes I would feel extreme guilt at what this nation is doing to it’s most vulnerable.

  32. helvityni

    Sam was good, it was like I was watching a comedy show, plenty of food there for Micallef…

    The Muslim brothers inviting her for Halal lunch was priceless.

  33. Jack Russell

    An angry resentful woman with significant character flaws and limited understanding gathers together a grab bag of contentious issues guaranteed to draw the attention she needs to achieve her goal – large amounts of money for very little effort – undeterred by the unpleasant outcome of her first attempt.

    The sum total of Pauline Hanson.

  34. jack

    I understand Hanson’s fears and some are foundered. Though she’s had 20 years to improve her education and understanding of a broad range of knowledge regarding worldly information.And not to mention her ability to articulate herself far more clearly in a verbal sense.

  35. diannaart

    Not much I can add – everyone has dissected Pauline very well.

    I’d rather there be Paulines in the spotlight where we can see her and call her out on her idiocies.

    Will she just go away? No. We have to learn to deal with the Pauline Hansons.

  36. Kevin R

    helvityni
    I was not that impressed with Sam Dastyari with his pseudo psychology smart arse Politician way with Pauline Hansen. I think Sam had a touch of she’s really beneath me so I won’t really interact with her .I’ll just humour her.
    Wrong move Sam; don’t mock or talk down to people regardless who they are.Otherwise don’t go on the show.

  37. mark

    Funny how Sam Dastyari says he is an athiest and has rejected islam on John Safran three weeks ago. Yet now says he is a muslim when ir is convenient next to PH. Setup theory certainly comes to mind.

  38. helvityni

    Well, jack, what has she learnt, please tell me. Hasn’t she just added Muslims to her hate list. It’s too late to start educating Pauline, the time for that was fifty years ago. I don’t believe she wastes any time on introspection.

  39. helvityni

    mark, Dastyari said that he was born in a Muslim country, and came here as a five-year old.

  40. Jack

    u talken to me helvityni aka R De niro’ Da I think I stated that she hadn’t learnt a thing.

  41. whatismore

    Excellent article. It was most edifying and sobering to read her list of demands.
    Pauline is certainly inarticulate; in fact, she struggles to pronounce two syllable words e.g. clect for collect. After watching her performance, I think that there needs to be an IQ test for parliamentary candidates.

  42. Ian Sprocket Muncher Parfrey

    Question: How do you confuse Pauline Hanson?

    Answer : Go to her fish and chip shop and ask her for maximum chips.

  43. whatismore

    Good to see you in action again Biggi

  44. Annie B

    Well said Kerri ……. your comment explores a great deal. ( July 20, 2016 at 12:35 pm )

    I wonder what blundering reply she might give if asked her thoughts on paedophilia in the “christian community ” ( mainly catholic priests / brothers – but others as well ).. and indeed recently through the Royal Commission, the exposed paedophilia in the jewish community ( committed by rabbi’s and people employed at jewish colleges ).

    I would love to hear her ideas on THAT, particularly the Australian ‘christian’ country idealism.

    She’d make a perfect running mate for the Dumpf in America. !!

  45. LOVO

    I work with a ‘Pauline’… his name is John and no amount of facts will ever change his/her/’their’ minds. It has been said that hers is the Politics of Ignorance, well, that most certainly rings true.
    I have given up on explaining ‘things’ to John and I just resort to waggerling my little finger in the air whenever he broaches the ‘Ipswich fish-batterer’ subject. It is a waste of time trying to ‘teach’ these morons, ….because they are ‘experts’……..just ask ’em. 🙄

  46. Jack

    Maybe I could have clarified the last sentence at the end.

  47. John

    I think its great that Hanson now has a national platform and we are able to publicly point out how wrong she is at so many levels. This is the conversation we should have had when she first appeared on the scene and before she was shunted aside and Howard co-opted her policies.

  48. johnlord2013

    Jimhaz. Sorry but hate is one of those things I am not good at. I tried it at an early age and it didn’t sit well with me so I gave it up.

    SD never at any time said he was a Muslim.

  49. Annie B

    @ Lovo.

    Not too long ago, if one were a Labor supporter, and tried talking sense to a Liberal supporter, it went in one LNP ear and out the other. If the roles were reversed the same thing would apply. There are a few in the public who change their minds from one party to the other, over a period of years, but dyed-in-the-wool bods simply do not listen. It is still pretty much the same, as far as 2PP are concerned, just a fraction more polite than it used to be.

    Then along come the Paulines of this world, which introduces a whole new set of ( inane ) scenarios for everyone to argue against, except of course, those who are inclined towards nazi-ism, ku klux klan type stuff, and who harbor deep loathings of ‘other’ colours or creeds .. while at the same time sprouting the word “christian” all over the joint.

    Hitler was a devout catholic ( he said, and was forever quoting passages from the Bible when he entered and continued his foray into German politics, beginning in 1930 ). But we know about him, and what his particular ‘form’ of christianity led to. …. hmmm !

    Wise were our forefathers, who warned to ” never talk about politics or religion “.

  50. Michael Jones

    “Her attack on Family Court, DV and Family Court just as worrying. Not because there aren’t problems with all, but because of what she sees as solutions. She seems to have taken under her wing all disgruntled separated fathers who believe the system allows women to fleeced them.”

    Get used to the idea that things will change in the Family law arena now that Pauline and her offsiders are in the Senate, because that is one of the big issues that the National’s have latched onto to review in order to woo back her supporters. Whatever changes arise may not be her changes, but they will undoubtedly tip the balance towards giving men a fairer go and not a second before time.

    The Family Court issue reflects the broader reality that she doesn’t have to get everything right to be a catalyst for policy changes that address her supporter’s concerns. She just needs to hold enough of the Coalition’s vote under threat to force them to come up with acceptable alternatives. And people who vote for her won’t care that she often speaks badly, in fact they will just see articles like this which make fun of her as more evidence of why they should vote for her.

    As for the rest of the show, she bumbled around on the questions about Islam, which is all that has subsequently been reported in the media. However, she was very coherent and thoughtful about how she would approach her role in the Senate. I was particularly impressed that she said she would respect the Government’s mandate, that she would make decisions on legislation based on evidence about how it would help Australians, and that she would not blackmail the government over legislation to progress her own policy agenda. I think that between here and Xenophon controlling the two main Senate power blocks, that paves the way for a far more constructive term than we saw in the previous fragmented Senate.

  51. silkworm

    When she was demonizing Aboriginal people, she said she wasn’t racist, because some of her friends were Aboriginal and some were even members of One Nation, so the Left should shut up. When she was demonizing Asians, she said she wasn’t racist, because some of her friends were Asian and some were even members of One Nation, so the Left should shut up.

    On Monday night’s QandA, she said some of her friends were Muslim and some were even members of One Nation. OK, Pauline, who are these self-hating Muslims who are members of your party?

  52. jimhaz

    [Dastyari said that he was born in a Muslim country, and came here as a five-year old]

    Yes, and he also said at some point that he is a non-practising muslim. ie he does not actually believe BUT still feels obliged to refer to himself as a muslim – I’d say due to an inbred sense of danger in calling oneself an ex-muslim. He said his parent fled Iran due to Hussiens pointless war and that they were left inclined and politically active and probably would have been killed were it not for the war causing havoc allowing them to flee.

    By rights he should be a supporter of the US invasion of Iraq.

  53. jimhaz

    @ keeri

    [It is we western nations who have created Daesh]

    Get real. The west was only ever a catalyst, but what created Daesh was the inherent qualities or people dumbed down by religion.

    There is no chance of me ever taking up this FALSE guilt trip regarding the invasion of Iraq.

    And also get lost with the child abuse issue – it is simply not related to the issue on hand. In any case how many child marriages occur (and the general brainwashing of women) due to old has been Islamic preachers wanting to sustain their power by keeping people scared and ignorant.

  54. John Boy

    Jimhaz : There is no chance of me ever taking up this FALSE guilt trip regarding the invasion of Iraq.

    We shouldn’t have gone there should we? And it’s not about you is it?

    Your other points are valid .

  55. diannaart

    Abolish the Family Court.

    The Family Court of Australia was established in 1976 by the passing of the Family Law Act 1975. It has made it fairer and easier for married couples and families to resolve disputes.

    I am soooo glad I got my divorce when I did. Between Hanson and Daesh (and there really isn’t as much of a gap as one would think) I would be very afraid of the future…. actually I am very afraid of the future… afraid of all those hate mongers out there.

  56. jimhaz

    @John Boy

    [We shouldn’t have gone there should we? ]

    I do not know the answer to that. This is mainly as I do not believe that the oil scenario is valid, other than as a minor reason, not a deciding reason.

    All I can say is that I have strong views against dictators and over a 50-100 year time frame they or the systems they put in place such as hereditary rule (Nth Korea) tend to harm more people than Western influence does if one bears in mind that some things, such as post regime change insanity, are inevitable.

    As the West does not actually take resources after invasions, the reason we have terrorism is most probably due to historical totalarian (and often religious) based regimes. They never allowed citizens the freedom to evolve into the 21st century.

  57. Osiris

    @johnlord2013: “Sorry but hate is one of those things I am not good at. I tried it at an early age and it didn’t sit well with me so I gave it up.”

    A voice of reason. It’s sad to see how some people who supposedly dislike Hanson’s policies speak in her ‘tongue’ of hate and bigotry. And they don’t even realize that they are her clones.

    Unfortunately we can’t fight fire with fire unless we want to add to the conflagration.

  58. Stephen Brailey

    Scared and ignorant quite aptly describes the people who follow Pauline Hanson so thank you for that Jimhaz! As for the rest of the garbage you dress up as opinion. In 1967 Afganistan: 50% of university enrolments were women; 30% of all public servants were women; 40% of all doctors were women. This government had an 80% approval rating domestically but was only allowed to operate for about 10 years. Why? Because the government were socialists so the US armed and trained the Mujahadeen to start a civil war the same way they did in El Salvador, Nicaragua, Chilli…the list goes on. 30 years on Afganistan has the highest infant mortanility and lowest life expectancy IN THE WORLD! They couldn’t do that in Iraq because after 20 years backing, arming and traing Sadam the Americans had made him unbeatable locally. So they bombed every railway, power plant, sewage plant etc etc etc then literally strarved the country to death for 10 years, then they invaded. Of course the Americans didn’t invent ISIS just like they didn’t invent the Taliban. However if you screw up a country enough you will eventually end up with really screwed up people and they will recruit equally disturbed and mentally ill people to join them. It’s not rocket science the American government and the CIA have been doing this kind of thing in S.America for the last 80 years. Now they’ve up the game and moved into the Middle East and Europe.

  59. Michael Jones

    “Between Hanson and Daesh (and there really isn’t as much of a gap as one would think) I would be very afraid of the future….”

    To my knowledge Hanson has never advocated chopping off the heads of unbelievers or blowing them up in the entire 20 years that she has been involved in politics. I would say that is a pretty big point of difference to the Daesh.

  60. John Boy

    jimhaz
    I do not know the answer to that. This is mainly as I do not believe that the oil scenario is valid, other than as a minor reason, not a deciding reason.
    We shouldn’t have gone there at that time. It was based on lies. End of story

    We have other methods for dictators though it’s a different issue

  61. Freethinker

    @diannaartJuly 20, 2016 at 3:51 pm
    Abolish the Family Court.
    I am soooo glad I got my divorce when I did. Between Hanson and Daesh (and there really isn’t as much of a gap as one would think) I would be very afraid of the future…. actually I am very afraid of the future… afraid of all those hate mongers out there.

    If you get to the stage of being very afraid of the future, change your life for a while, wilderness and animals companion are the best option.
    Years ago, nearly 50, I was afraid of go to the street and be stopped by the army which was serving a draconian government.
    I have the option to emigrate and coming to Australia and never seen a a jeep full of soldiers was a dream for my wife and I.
    Now I am worried about Australia will come like my mother country was back then, it is so similar that is hard to believe but now I have a plan if things deteriorate, just go bush.

  62. Freethinker

    @jimhaz All I can say is that I have strong views against dictators…………

    Yes you have it as I have that for personal experience, but was not the case of USA which helped establishing and supported all the dictators in the Plan Condor and the person in charge on supplying intelligence and torture techniques is a Noble Prize Peace winner Mr Kissinger.
    USA and UK not went to Iraq because the dictatorship or human atrocities, they went for other reasons.

  63. jimhaz

    @ Stephen Brailey

    It would seem more relevant to blame the USSR or perhaps megapower jockeying for a strategic position. The US support was quite late in the piece.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone

  64. wam

    oh dear lord I cringed at her performance and at her inability to think. Words just tumbled meaninglessly from her mouth, no substance no coherent thread no realisation of what she had just said.
    She embodies the rabbottians on my facebook who believe she speaks for them they are baby boomers and their mantra begins with the yanks saved us from the japs, menzies from commos fraser from whitlam howard from economic collapse labor is the stooge of militant unions and the rabbott saved us from that woman.
    All arguably crap but there is no way around belief.
    Judging from jones last night we are in for a terrible three(i cannot contemplate 6 tears) years as she becomes the embodiment of the senate.
    Still there are compensations, the XXers and the loonies will be less in focus.

  65. diannaart

    Freethinker

    “…just go bush…”

    Happiness for me is being surrounded by animal companions, sitting under a tree hearing only the noises of the bush. Oh, and something to read.

    I have plans, am hoping that not too much changes before I can fulfil my plans.

    Cheers

  66. diannaart

    To my knowledge Hanson has never advocated chopping off the heads of unbelievers or blowing them up in the entire 20 years that she has been involved in politics.

    Pauline Hanson supports capital punishment.

  67. Max Gross

    We are in the hands of dangerous idiots!

  68. Mark

    Come off it Helvityni – even you pronounced him a Muslim at 10.26 this morning “She thought Sam Dastyari was just another male victim of DV, until she found out that he was a Muslim male…”
    He said that his paperwork was stamped Muslim so PH asked him twice if he was a Muslim and he didnt answer leaving everyone to assume that he is. He was trying to be an antagonist but was just an evasive smart ass.

  69. helvityni

    Maybe he’s as much of a Muslim as I’m a Christian, my parents were Christian, I had no say in that. Attending a Sunday school soon enough turned me into a non-believer. Muslim parents also end up having children ,who grow up as non-practicing.

  70. Barbara Wittmann

    So Dastyardi swore his oath to serve this country on the quran did he? back in 2013??? and Pauline is a stupid hater who should pull her head in and go home and bake cakes for the local school. Fact 1 No one in Germany in 1934 thought any more of Hitler but he was harmless and gave them their pride back, next thing you know they have brown shirts all over them Nazis checking papers Jews being transported and the country at war, WHY did no one say any thing about the NAZIS was the question surely the Germans know what they were doing, but if they did NO-ONE SAID A WORD FOR FEAR OF BEING BRANDED A JEW LOVER, SOUND FAMILIAR folks and Pauline and the people who say and MEAN the words LEST WE FORGET will never be shut down by you ugly small mean mouthed know it all ugly people. ISLAM LITTERALY MEANS SUBMIT. The Labor party is a disgrace for having distyardi in their team and he is a liar when he says yes he is a muslim then qualifies it with later but not a practicing muslim. I’m not a practicing Catholic either but I still believe in the Bible. And the fact he swore on a quran lays bare that LIE. DO not be part of the sheep who allow the radicals to overthrow as that will only happen if we as a people are not on guard.

  71. zue

    Sam Dastyari, aged 5, arrived in Australia from a Muslim country, and had Islam nominated as his religion on his birth certificate. Thus he falls into the category that Pauline would like to refuse entry into the country, were he arriving now. Sam asked Pauline if she believed he should not have been allowed to become an Australian. It is irrelevant to this question, whether or not he identifies as a Muslim now. He evaded the issue of his current religious belief because that was a red herring that would have directed the discussion away from the question he was actually trying to ask. So many Muslims, as well as those from all other backgrounds, make an important contribution to Australia. How can we tell which of the children, from which background, out of all those arriving on our shores today, will be the ones to make an important contribution to our country? How can we tell which of the young adults, or the parents, or the older people that come here looking for a better, safer life, are the ones we will one day be proud to call Australian? In my experience every group contains a mix, so why not help those who need it most, and right now that would be refugees.

  72. Carol Taylor

    On Sam Dastyari “not answering” and being “an evasive smart ass”, Mark @8.49pm. From the Q&A transcript:

    Hanson: “Are you a Muslim? Really?”

    Dastyari: “Yeah and I have never hidden it away.”

    Perhaps Mark you should have actually availed yourself of the facts before commencing name-calling.

  73. Carol Taylor

    Interesting is that Ed Husic (Yugoslavian parents) was the first MP to be sworn in under the Koran while at the same swearing in Josh Frydenberg was sworn in under the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible). Such is multicultural Australia, and I’d like to keep it that way.

  74. Annie B

    @ Barbara Wittman

    You are not a practicing Catholic, yet you believe in the Bible. And you have every right to your beliefs.

    However, I would ask if you have perhaps read all there is in the Bible, including the violence, punishment and brutal atonement required by first the Jews in the Old Testament, and later the newer voices in the New Testament, including that of Jesus. I think we all have to remember that both the Q’ran and the Bible are from very ancient scripts / scribes, and much in them are not in any way relevant to todays’ world. And the days of those scribes, were barbaric beyond belief. …. Did you conveniently skip over the bad bits in the Bible ? …. you say you believe in it, therefore you must totally accept its ancient ways and means of dealing with transgressors. Deuteronomy 17:2 > is a start in the Old Testament. In Luke 19 : 27, Jesus says, “But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.” That was a directive I think, not a parable. … He used many parables in his teachings as you know. The word ‘infidel’ also is used in the New Testament and means ‘unbeliever’.

    Judaism, Christianity and Islam …. use many words meaning the same from ancient days, written by their scribes. And yes, the word Islam does have a literal meaning – submit, surrender ( to Allah ). Much the same as Jews ask all of their people to submit / surrender to one God, and that Christians who came after the Jewish Jesus ‘ teachings and ultimate brutal death, have been asked to submit / surrender to God and his son Jesus …

    So I ask you, how does this make any of us different ? …… To single out a specific race, colour or belief and vilify it is utterly wrong. To kill by war, is utterly wrong, by all sides.

    A non-practicing Muslim, Dastyari may be, only he knows that and it’s his human right to disclose it or not. It is only the extremists in any religion that do the damage. In the case of ISIS it is the radical / fundamental Islamic monstrosity, Christians have had isolated incidences of brutality and mass murder in modern days – and going back to the 13th century >> ( I think it was ) the Crusaders and the RC Inquisitions were also Christian vile works. Muslims and Christians have been fighting sporadically since 634 AD. All of it is / was barbaric.

    As helvityni said : ” Muslim parents also end up having children, who grow up as non-practicing.”
    This I believe would be true. Just like you, a non practicing Catholic, and me, formerly Catholic, now agnostic.

    There are many good Muslims in this country now ( the first of them arrived around 1860 .. the cameleers ); there are good Christians and good Jews. And there are some bad in all three.

    As Joe Hildebrand ( channel 10 ) said on Twitter for all to see : ” I have never understood why it is so hard for some people to embrace peaceful Muslims and condemn Islamic extremism at the same time. “

    I so totally agree with Joe.

  75. Annie B

    Carol Taylor ….

    Thanks for posting that info. … Had forgotten that Frydenberg is Jewish. Didn’t know about Husic.

    Multi-culturalism … here to stay for a very long time, I hope. 🙂

  76. Kim S

    Appeasement is a dangerous practice – Churchill described an appeaser as “one who feeds the crocodile in the hopes that it will eat him last”.

    The problem with Dastyari’s question is that it presupposes that Australia allows in all 5 year olds from war torn countries which it doesn’t – it aggressively and regularly denies children entry into Australia. The truth is that Dastyari and his parents, all moslems, fled from the terror of a moslem country which in actual fact endorses Hanson’s case.

    Furthermore, I cannot understand why Moslems would not welcome a Royal Commission as it would clear up the issue once and for all and require that the government take positive action to redress any wrongs. Of course the problem is that a Royal commission could also find that it Islam is a political ideology that aims to subvert the Australian way of life and fly the black flag over Canberra and that is a real worry for the Moslem population.

    Afterall, Australia has banned political parties, organisations and even biker gangs so there are precedents.

    I also wonder why we have Royal Commissions into sexual abuse by the Catholic Church, but rush to the defence of a religion that is based on the writings of a warrior priest who, by our own legal definitions, was a paedophile having consummated a marriage with a 9 year old. A practice that continues to this day. You cannot have it both ways. Moslem’s believe that the Koran is the unadulterated, immutable word of Allah and if that is the case, then is Islam in any way compatible with a European or Australian way of life? Many countries in Europe are discovering that it is not.

    So does Dastyari believe that the Koran is immutable? If the answer is yes then we are in trouble – if the answer is no then he should deny Islam but he hasn’t. He is deliberately sitting on the fence justifying it with the term “non-practicing” moslem!

    Anyway, Australian multiculturalism is a joke – it is based on a highly selective, stringent and exclusive process that strips the best out of other countries thus leaving them less able to grow and develop. Maybe the solution is that we accept refugees like the Dastyari’s on the express understanding that we will skill them up and send them back to participate in the rebuilding of their countries, in which case Dastyari would be involved in Iranian politics, advocating and fighting for the rights of his people.

    It is a different issue when we cause the problem, like we have in Iraq – they have lost everything because of us but even then we deny their 5 year olds entry into Australia. Yet we won’t condemn Howard or have him and his cohort tried for war crimes.

    When placed in context, Dastyari’s question was ridiculous.

    The issues Hanson raises are serious – people should do some proper research and stop trying to blindly advocate that Islam is a religion of peace, simply because they have met a ‘nice moslem’. The main difference between Christian religions and Islam is that Christians are told to obey the laws of the land within which they live – moslem’s are not and declares ad hoc caliphates and jihads.

    Islam needs to be properly interrogated by a royal Commission so that Australians can make a properly inforemd decision.

  77. Miriam English

    Annie B, great answer! While agreeing pretty-much 100% with what you said, can I make one tiny correction? The quote from Luke 19:27 is a little misleading. It actually seems to be the last part of a parable. Nevertheless, the parable appears to be saying that god is a wicked tyrant who rewards those who convert more to follow him and wants the blood of those who refuse him. There are other direct examples of Jesus not necessarily being the nice character Christians want to believe (I’ll list some below). The important thing is that many Christians do want to believe he was a nice guy who preached peace and tolerance because there are plenty of examples of that. Likewise we can find many deeply nasty things in the Koran, but in the same way the important thing is that many Muslims believe it preaches peace and tolerance because those can be found in the Koran too.

    Religious books are basically Rorschach tests. What people get from them says more about them than the books.

    Here are some not so nice things the bible’s Jesus says.

    Matthew 10:34. “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.

    He never denounced slavery, incorporating the master-slave relationship into many of his parables.
    Luke 12:47. “And that servant [slave], which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.”

    Luke 14:26. “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.”

    The burning of unbelievers during the Inquisition was based on the words of Jesus:
    John 15:6. “If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”

    When one of his disciples requested time off for his father’s funeral, Jesus rebuked him:
    Matthew 8:22. “Let the dead bury their dead.”

  78. mark

    So Carol Taylor. Why would he say he is now and say he wasnt three weeks earlier. One of these times he lied so i still see him as an opportunistic smart ass.

  79. Miriam English

    Kim S, There are a number of problems with what you say.

    A Royal Commission into Islam would almost certainly be a witchhunt, like a commission into imaginary windmill-created illness.

    Religion is not a binary choice. You can have Christians, Muslims, Hindus, or believers of any of the roughly thousand major religions have any gradation of belief, from “I call myself one because I like the feeling of belonging, but it would be silly to actually swallow that Iron Age stuff” to “Every last word is the unchanging word of my god(s) and I will force you to follow it just as I do”. All religions… well, except perhaps Jainism, which is utterly peaceful.

    To say Muslims have only a fully off or fully on choice means you should probably take your own advice and learn more about the religion. Yes, the book is horrible and talks about killing unbelievers throughout its pages, but it has some good parts too — it promotes non-aggression and tolerance of other religions (though it does require those others to be second-class citizens). In short, it’s like all other religious books. It has good parts and bad parts. As I said in my reply to Annie, above, religious books are Rorschach tests. What people read into them says more about them than the books.

    To ask for tolerance of people believing ridiculous religions is not the same as defending an illiterate, epileptic, paedophile warlord with delusions of grandeur. Tolerance is largely about not making enemies. That said, we should not tolerate intolerance.

    Multiculturism is certainly not a joke. It has been a fairly successful experiment and has greatly enriched our society which would have otherwise rotted from within. The greatest danger comes from intolerance. Most of that problem stems from intolerant Anglos who regard all others as dangerous. This becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. When people are intolerant of others, those others band together in ghettos for mutual support. This breeds even more suspicion and intolerance — now on both sides — and the cycle continues and escalates. We need strategies that ease the tensions, not intensify them.

    All religions are stupid and I wish they would all disappear. Islam and Christianity are both especially ridiculous and have dangerously blood-soaked pasts. Though Christianity has the more scary and bloody history, it’s now being forced to grow into a kinder, more gentle form. We need to allow and encourage Islam to do the same.

    I don’t know where you get the idea that the main difference between Christian religions and Islam is that Christians are told to obey the laws of the land within which they live whereas Muslims are not. It doesn’t exactly fit with the Muslims that I’ve known. It also doesn’t fit with the sense of privilege some Christians have that they’re above the local laws.

    I definitely don’t think sending people back to the countries they escaped would be a good thing to do. It would be a terrible injustice. Let them stay and help our society become better. If we do well then we can lead by example and change other countries that way. Though at the moment we are doing such horrible things I hang my head in shame. We are not leading anything except a plunge toward bigotry and conflict and poverty. 🙁

  80. Florence nee Fedup

    There was at least one who swore on nothing but affirming, leaving religion put of it. That is my preference. mark, because he was stirring her. I was reared as a Catholic, it was easier to kick that box when required. It wasn’t that important to me, seeing myself as a lapse Catholic. As I have aged, I have firmed in my beliefs, no longer see myself as a member no religion. Personally I see no reason why Sam or anyone needs to explain themselves to others.

    No one ask Pauline or her ilk what is the depth of their commitment to religion. No one asked what sect she is. To her all Muslims are bad, no matter the sect they belong too.

  81. Miriam English

    Mark, I have friends who call themselves Jewish, but are atheists. I expect it is probably the same kind of thing with Mr Dastyari, substituting Muslim family connections. Why the desire to cast him as a liar and opportunistic smart-ass? Could it be that you are exhibiting prejudice? Why would that be? Did you take an emotive dislike to him based on nebulous feelings rather than the facts? That’s called prejudice.

  82. mark

    Carol Taylor -i dont see that quote anywhere in this article. If he did say yeah then why say he wasnt three weeks before on John Safran. Still too shifty for my liking.

  83. Kaye Lee

    Kim S,

    Dear oh dear….where to begin.

    “people should do some proper research”

    How about we start with YOU doing some “proper” research Kim.

    “The main difference between Christian religions and Islam is that Christians are told to obey the laws of the land within which they live – moslem’s are not ”

    From Islam Today….

    “Muslims living in non-Muslim countries have to comply with laws and regulations of the country they have been entrusted though valid visas to enter. At the same time, they have to avoid whatever contradicts Islamic teachings. In case they are obliged by law to uphold something contrary to Islamic teachings, they have to adhere to the minimum that the law requires of them.

    One of the best approaches for a Muslim living in these countries is patience. As long as he agrees to live in a non-Muslim country, he is never to rebel against the inhabitants of his choice of residence, even it seems to hard for him to endure.”

    http://en.islamtoday.net/node/604

    “stop trying to blindly advocate that Islam is a religion of peace, simply because they have met a ‘nice moslem’.”

    So we should believe you that they are all just waiting to behead us? How about YOU stop showing your ignorance. You ask why there there was a Royal Commission into child sexual abuse by Catholic priests?????? Are you for real????

    “Islam needs to be properly interrogated by a royal Commission so that Australians can make a properly inforemd decision.”

    Somehow I think that, regardless of anything you could be shown, you would choose to continue on in your ignorant hatred, preferring to have your bigotry confirmed by fools like Hanson and Larry Pickering than any truth.

    I find people like you far more worrying than the many Muslims I have dealt with over the years. Half of the people in Australia were either born overseas or their parents were. Get used to it sunshine….we have a successful multicultural society and I am sick to death of people like you jeopardising it!

  84. mark

    Sorry there seems to be a time lag with my posts. Didnt see the ones directed at me from others i dont believe there is the middle ground you are suggesting. It is a religion so you have a choice. Believer or non believer. You cant choose one over the other when it suits you.

  85. Kaye Lee

    Hanson didn’t just attack Aborigines, Asians and Muslims. This from 2006….

    “We’re bringing in people from South Africa at the moment. There’s a huge amount coming into Australia, who have diseases; they’ve got AIDS. They are of no benefit to this country whatsoever; they’ll never be able to work. And what my main concern is: is the diseases that they’re bringing in and yet no one is saying or doing anything about it.”

    Her ignorance is flabbergasting. From her maiden speech in Parliament…

    “I and most Australians want our immigration policy radically reviewed and that of multiculturalism abolished. I believe we are in danger of being swamped by Asians. Between 1984 and 1995, 40% of all migrants coming into this country were of Asian origin. They have their own culture and religion, form ghettos and do not assimilate. Of course, I will be called racist, but if I can invite whom I want into my home, then I should have the right to have a say in who comes into my country. A truly multicultural country can never be strong or united.”

    Imagine a country peopled by those who believe as Pauline does. It would not be a place I would want to live.

  86. Kaye Lee

    And as for “a religion that is based on the writings of a warrior priest who, by our own legal definitions, was a paedophile having consummated a marriage with a 9 year old.”

    The bible is full of incest, child brides and polygamy

    The earliest accounts of incest are found in biblical stories. In Genesis, Lot’s wife turned into a pillar of salt when she lookedback at the destruction of Sodom. Seeking refuge, Lot takes shelter in a cave near Zoar, due south of the Dead Sea. From Genesis19:31–32 of the Holy Bible:
    “He and his two daughters lived in a cave. One day the older daughter said to the younger, our father is old and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. Let us get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father.” Lot’s two daughters each bore a son.

    And in the real world….

    A University study found 20.6% of women and 10.5% of men reported non-penetrative childhood sexual abuse by the age of 16 and that 7.9% of women and 7.5% of men reported penetrative childhood sexual abuse by the age 16 years. (Mamun, Lawlor, O’Calloghan, Bor, Williams. & Najman, 2007 Queensland University study)

    http://www.casa.org.au/casa_pdf.php?document=statistics

    We ALL have a duty to protect our children but to suggest that Muslims are collectively and solely to blame for abuse is just crap.

  87. Zathras

    KIm S,

    So Mohammed “was a paedophile having consummated a marriage with a 9 year old”?

    Historians agree that Jesus’ mother Mary would have been married to Joseph at around age 13 but consummation would probably not occur until around the age of 15 or 16 – as was the practice during those days.
    That’s why she was reputed to have been still a virgin.

    The Koran may be regarded as immutable but so is the Bible by many of it’s followers. That’s how religious books work.

    As I recall Dastyari never admitted to being a Muslim – practicing or not. He only said he came from a Muslim country at the age of 5.
    I believe he regards himself as an atheist but his argument is still valid.

    What could a Royal Commission into Islam possibly achieve? Why not also have one into Judaeism which has equally intolerant and hateful views on “the Goyim” and how they will eventually enslave all non-believers or any of the thousands of Christian sects that destroy and abuse families?

    Religion – as poisonous to modern society as it is – is not the problem.

    It’s intolerance and works in all directions.

  88. Anthony Wasiukiewicz

    Here is my response to your article verbatim as I posted it on the facebook wall of a friend who shared your article”

    Ok, I’ll play.. Lord starts with “All we can do is counter it with the truth.” Nobel enough. But then morphs into a few paragraphs of feeling sad, accusing her ability to articulate, calling her a racist, and calling her associates ill-informed. All without any indication as to any specifics. He then tries to address this with bringing up the section of Sam Dastyari. Only problem is he missed the bit about Sam not actually being a Muslim… Pauline called him out on the episode, to overwhelming jeers from the audience, but no one actually caught on to what Pauline was doing. Do people really think she and her advisers weren’t aware of who was sitting next to her on the panel? She was actually more informed than the bulk of the audience, and articulated herself in the typical Australian fashion; with sarcasm. Just no one caught on.. Lord goes on to describe a ‘character explosion’. Again, we still aren’t onto anything factual by paragraph 13… He then claims the next census will prove we aren’t a Christian nation. It seems he’s delved into fortune telling now. At the last census just 5 years ago, over 60% of the country identified as being Christian… So Lord hasn’t really done anything with ‘truth’ yet. We then get into some attempts to address policy, but Lord doesn’t actually counter much. In A he ignores any solid argument altogether. In B he cites that Halal Certification hasn’t been linked to terrorism. It has, just not in Australia.. (yet..?) While talking about facts, he cites C, Ban all Muslims. The word she used on the show was ‘moratorium’. The very definition of moratorium is ‘temporary’. I’m up to D now “must be a crime in itself”. Well is it or isn’t it? Did Lord look? Hardly very factual or reflecting any element of truth. And on it goes.. Lord then ends with this beauty; “Mt (sic) thought for the day. I don’t mind you having a different opinion to me but please don’t create your own facts to support your view.” – fair enough, but maybe just try to counter with some fact if you are going to bother responding by writing a public article….

  89. Osiris

    @Annie B “I think we all have to remember that both the Q’ran and the Bible are from very ancient scripts / scribes, and much in them are not in any way relevant to todays’ world.”

    Yes, they are very ancient but nevertheless relevant because the issues of humanity are common to all of its parts, only times, places and protagonists change. However, we all tend to behave differently in the same situation, depending on which level we stand on psychologically. Spiritual evolution that underpins everything in the Bible, means that we all stand on different rungs of the same evolutionary ladder, depending on our developments so far. So for instance if I am on level 3, I will behave according to that level, but if I am higher on the evolutionary ladder than level 3, I will behave better, depending on how much higher I stand. Or if I am on a lower level, I will behave worse than the person on level 3.

    And God who stands on the highest rung of the ladder, is the ultimate level of development achieved so far. But when God looks at those below, s/he sees the road he/she travelled on to get this far. And s/he calls those souls advancing in his/her footsteps the children of God; lesser Gods for sure, but each with a potential to become part of the Godhead, if only s/he chooses spiritual evolution outlined in the Golden Rule.

    This earthly plane has many levels but there are other planes too, both below and above our human plane. You can see that when you observe the elementary levels, the flora and fauna levels and then the human experience on this planet. And there are higher levels above us. It all works not unlike the school levels. A child in grade 7 has more understanding than a child in grade 3, and behaves accordingly.

    “God presides in the great assembly; he renders judgment among the “gods”: “How long will you defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked? Defend the weak and the fatherless; uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed. Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked. “The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. “I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’ But you will die like mere mortals; you will fall like every other ruler. Rise up, O God, judge the earth, for all the nations are your inheritance.” Psalms 82:1-8.

    Annie B quote: “Did you conveniently skip over the bad bits in the Bible ? …. you say you believe in it, therefore you must totally accept its ancient ways and means of dealing with transgressors.”

    Annie B, the Bible talks about Gods of many levels but the ultimate God who presides over them all is pure goodness and loving kindness. But we are God’s children and therefore imperfect, however, if we follow our celestial father we will achieve the same standing. It’s possible; God is our proof. And we know that he exists because the same essence of goodness and loving kindness exists in us also, but not in the same degree. So what you see as a God who deals punishment and death, is a human being who still has much to learn on his/her journey of inner spiritual evolution toward God.

    Annie B quote: “Jesus says, “But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.” That was a directive I think, not a parable. … He used many parables in his teachings as you know.”

    Actually I am glad that you brought up this particular parable of Jesus because it perfectly explains the levels and what the consequences are of the choices people make. The accent is on people and their choices. The parable is found in Luke 19:12- 27.

    A person on the ladder of evolution during his lifetime achieves ten levels higher. So he advances by ten levels because money in this parable is the symbol for spiritual wealth not physical. Another person advances by 5 levels and each of them receives the benefits that are part of that level. Then along comes the third person and says that he didn’t ‘trade’ and stands on the same level as before. So what he has is taken away from him and given to the one that has gained ten levels because “everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away.” And those that refused to embark on spiritual evolution are ‘killed’ because they refused to follow the path to God. They are killed by their own refusal to improve. Life is about choices and improvements because the karmic law that applies to all of us, even God, states: “Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.” Matthew: 12:30 “And Jesus said, `Take care how you listen. How much you give to others is how much will be given to you. You who obey God will get more than you give.” Mark 4:24

    So as you sow so shall you reap and you reap more than you sow. Your performance comes with an interest, both for positive and negative actions, therefore you are the master of your destiny. This law was given to ensure that justice reigns supreme and it’s up to each individual to decide on a course of action and then bear the consequences of those actions.

  90. Bighead1883

    whatismore July 20, 2016 at 1:40 pm

    Thanks Whatti and we sure seem in for a rough ride this time round with the LNP and this Senate recipe`

    Imagine how terrifying it would be if we still had the racism of say the 50`s or 60`s still in place in Australia

  91. jimhaz

    I quite like the new post-powerbroker Sam Dastyari. He appears to be one of the most progressive ALP members in relation to distribution.
    I only raised the non-practising muslim bit as I thought the question to Hanson to be unfair. There was not much international terrorism that targeted innocents at the time he arrived. It has been everything that has occurred since then that makes his question unreasonable. One has to expect a change of attitude in the population.

    The idea of a royal commission sounds stupid to me – I do not believe in putting additional across the board pressure on people who have already migrated if there is nothing to gain – an RC would gain nothing whatsoever. An RC would offend even the muslims here who have primarily western ideals. Nonetheless I do want middle eastern muslim immigration to be severely limited (done mostly on the sly as per the Syrian refugees) – and yes I am well aware it would offend muslims, but would hope the offence would not be as strong as many envisage (it would need to be sold as a temporary measure relating to ongoing terrorism and is not something we could be the first to implement).

    I’d welcome an RC into immigration practices generally, particularly what agents and private tertiary education gets up to.
    Hanson was correct about asian immigration. My home area (units near a train station) is now essentially Asian and they own or manage most of the local shops. My sister from Germany (who has a far more gentle relaxed heart than mine) visited recently and twice she mentioned with a slight frown “I can’t believe how many Asians there are here”. I can’t say I like this trend at all, however they do make good migrants – they assimilate, don’t cause trouble, have high crime rates or even complain much, and the women are often attractive as they still try to be feminine – so I just go with the flow on that issue.

    In some areas Hanson was also correct about aboriginal welfare. Noel Pearson raised not too distant concerns about the welfare dependency aspect. I also believe that once 2 or so generations pass that levels of ownership equalise – ie I should have the same rights of ownership as to how the land can be used as aboriginals do. Unlike Hanson, Mabo was OK to me not by any divine racist right of being here 40000 years but as a form of affirmative action to help raise the living and health standards of aboriginals by giving them official ownership of the areas they currently lived in recent generations.

  92. diannaart

    What are Pauline Hanson’s religious beliefs? For someone who likes to preach about the religion of others, why has Pauline not been questioned about her beliefs? Or did I blink and miss that?

  93. helvityni

    diannaart, you got there before me, I was going to ask the same.

    What right does she have to question if we are believers, atheists or agnostics. I stopped believing in Santa and angels at a very early age, but of course that’s no one else’s business. God (oops), I’m sick of this Hanson woman already and the senate is not even sitting yet.

    If her insults were as entertaining as Keating’s, I’d listen to her. Promise.

  94. Jaquix

    When she was all the rage 20 years ago, Pauline Hanson was scapegoating Aborigines and Asians. Not muslims, she obviously hadnt heard of them then. No religion came into it. Now her pompous pronouncement that Australia is a Christian country, how ridiculous. Its actually a secular country, with freedom to practice whatever religion you like. The idea of having a RC into Islam is so simplistic – she might have a better platform if she included Scientology, The Brethren, and while she is at it ALL RELIGIONS and their funding by taxpayers in Australia. That would be of some use. So now she has Aborigines, Asians, Muslims and the entire population of Australia being held to account to her dubious “values”.

  95. diannaart

    🙂

    Helvityni

    If Hanson was as entertaining as Keating, she wouldn’t be Pauline Hanson.

    @Dan Rowden

    Good that you of all people though of that; Solipsism his or her own deity.

  96. jimhaz

    Stephen Brailey made this comment above

    “In 1967 Afganistan: 50% of university enrolments were women; 30% of all public servants were women; 40% of all doctors were women”
    It led me to google for info. The first thing I found was:

    http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2013/01/28/podlich-afghanistan-1960s-photos/5846/

    Worth a gander. Leaving aside any of the “whose to blame guesswork” it is just sad how far things have fallen.

    They even had their own limited ban on burqas.

    “Afghan girls, as well as boys, were educated up to the high school level, and although girls (and boys) wore uniforms, the girls were not allowed to wear a chadri on their way to secondary school. Able young women attended college, as did the men.”

    Some more here. These are less idealised.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2013/07/afghanistan-in-the-1950s-and-60s/100544/

  97. Miriam English

    Osiris, you talk about god(s) and levels of reality. It always astonishes me how religious people can make such pronouncements with absolutely no facts to base them upon. They will turn to their religious books as evidence, but the say-so of some superstitious savages from the dawn of civilisation is not serious evidence. Often religious people will say they have special insider knowledge revealed through their faith, but the lunatic asylums are full of people with similar “understanding”.

    Sorry, but all of the mutually contradicting religions are simple delusion. The only thing they all get right is that all the others are wrong.

    The most dangerous thing about religion is that it makes people’s sense of self dependent upon their delusion so that when it is contradicted the person feels as if they have been personally attacked, just as I’m pretty sure you feel that I’m personally attacking you right now. Please let me assure you that I’m not. I have no ill will for you at all, in fact you seem like quite a pleasant person judging from your other comments. Beware of the way that religion makes you feel threatened. It is a dangerous thing and the cause of most of humanity’s evil.

    Just two last things:

    • You say God is “pure goodness and loving kindness”. How does such an entity torture people forever for not believing in them?

    • If belief in a God lifts us to a higher level of goodness how do you explain that all major the social ills are less in atheist countries and worse in religious ones?

  98. Bilal Cleland

    MUSLIMS on the East Coast were coming from an early period.

    British shipping companies were already making good use of the vast supply of labour British imperial expansion had delivered to them. Muslim sailors were apparently frequently employed and in January 1796 Norfolk Island acquired several of them at one time. They were classed as Lascars (Indians and Ceylonese) by the Norfolk Island Victualling Book, the record of all those receiving government food assistance. They were abandoned there due to a misfortune related to the shoddy quality of colonial shipbuilding at that time and of course to the racist attitudes of their officers. In September 1795 the colonial-built ship Endeavour left Port Jackson with a companion ship Fancy, intending to touch at New Zealand and Norfolk Island before sailing to India. The Endeavour, with its Muslim sailors and with convicts destined to expand the labour supply on Norfolk Island, began leaking and it was feared it might break-up. It had to run aground at Dusky Bay New Zealand. The sailors found a partly assembled ship on the beach, built by the carpenter of The Britannia while at Dusky Bay in 1793. The crew finished the ship, named it Providence and with Fancy, sailed on to Norfolk Island. Some forty of the convicts from the Endeavour were returned to Norfolk Island and completed their sentences. The excess sailors were dumped with them.

    Little was recorded of these exotic arrivals but it is apparent that they were not provided with passage home. Some fifteen years later, according to the Victualling Book, John Hassan a sailor from the Endeavour was on the Island working as a labourer. He was relocated to Port Dalrymple in Tasmania with the remaining settlers in 1813 when this settlement was closed. Another Muslim from Endeavour was Sua (or Saib) Sultan. He had an eleven and a half acre block of land on the island. He and his unnamed wife were transferred from Norfolk Island on the Lady Nelson as third class passengers on 9 November 1809. He was given the name of Jacob on the 1818 stores list for Hobart Town and by then he had a much larger block of land. He was given a 27 acre grant in his new location on the Derwent River near the village of New Norfolk. He apparently did well as The Land and Stock Muster of Van Diemen’s land for 1819 notes that Saib Sulton (sic) possessed 28 acres of pasture and two acres of wheat.

    Mahomet Cassan is also listed as coming free on the Endeavour 1795. An alternative spelling of his name is also given on this list as “Cassom”. Another name which crops up on the Stores Lists is that of number 615, Mahomet Cassem. Probably the same as “Cassan” and “Cassom” he appears on the “General Muster of Free Men, Women and Children off and on Stores in His Majesty’s Settlement of Hobart Town 2 October 1818″ as “came free”, from Norfolk Island and off the stores. Number 514 on the list is a Memerich Cossam. It is possible that some semi-literate clerk confused by the foreign name mixed up the lists but this may be another individual.
    http://www.islamiccouncilwa.com.au/white-christian-civilisation-to-the-east/

  99. Miriam English

    correction: I shouldn’t have said all the major social ills. Suicide shows no correlation between religion or lack of religion. I should have said most of the major social ills correlate with religion.

  100. helvityni

    …no one is Oz politics is as witty as Keating was, but at least Pauline could take leaf of Jackie Lambie’s book, who at least manages to make some people smile. All Pauline does is spread hate…

  101. Godwin Rule

    I think it’s great that Pauline’s is out there. For she is a representation of my own family and many I know. I agree with Mark; Sam was too clever by half. Pauline is just a walking talking bundle of fear and ignorance.Don’t attack her.Educate her and you will educate all the other Australians who feeling the fear.Send/tell her the fact’s but don’t talk down to her.

  102. jimhaz

    [she is a representation of my own family and many I know]

    Same here. Many of my family have always lived in the country….and really the number of immigrants is often rather small. They are not accustomed to it, but I am and still know it has gone overboard.

  103. Godwin Rule

    What has gone overboard ?

  104. jimhaz

    Immigration levels.

  105. Godwin Rule

    Yes I agree. It’s all about Capitalist’s having as many Ants as they can get to work for them.

  106. helvityni

    Talking about educating Pauline, this one from Charlotte Bronte might be rather fitting here:

    “Prejudices, it is well known, are most difficult to eradicate from the heart whose soil has never been loosened or fertilized by education: they grow there, firm as weeds amongst the stones.”

  107. jimhaz

    Unfortunately in 2015 Roy Morgans Research indicated that 70% of Australians over 14 wished levels to “Remain the same or Increased”
    Only 28% opposed muslim immigration (must have been a quiet period for terrorism). Sample size 647.

  108. Godwin Rule

    Maybe that’s right helvityni.Though the left media shut her down 20 years ago. And we could have had the discussion then ? Now SHE’S BACK !.

    And now I’m about to make a racist’s joke! 2 Wong’s doesn’t make it Right !

  109. jimhaz

    The vast bulk of what is falsely called racism is either prejudice, discrimination or actual reasoned intolerance.

  110. Miriam English

    Sorry, jimhaz, but that doesn’t make a lot of sense. Prejudice and discrimination when applied to people who are different are the very essence of racism. As for “actual reasoned intolerance”… WTF?

  111. Matters Not

    either prejudice, discrimination or actual reasoned intolerance.

    So very true jimhaz and it’s all based on ‘race; that why it’s called ‘racism’. ?

    ‘Sexism’ is also based on prejudice, discrimination, and actual ‘reasoned intolerance’ but from a ‘sexist’ or a ‘racist’ point of view. ?

    No where is the ‘falsity’? Please explain?

  112. jimhaz

    A dud comment. Don’t mind me. I’m just totally bored and so tired of the loose manner in which the negative word is thrown about.

    What does one call it when intolerance is due to valid reasons?

    And what if the race part doesn’t really play much of a role. It is not the race one is not tolerant about but observed trends in people from X countries.

  113. Annie B

    @ Anthony Wasiukiewicz :

    In your ‘response’ to John Lords’ article you mention : “At the last census just 5 years ago, over 60% of the country identified as being Christian”.

    1) I asked many folk what they had noted as their religion, on the census. A few told me it was their business, but the majority said ( not verbatim ) ” Oh well – I guess I am Christian ” … or ” I don’t hold with religion, but my family are Christian, so I ticked ‘christian’….. or ” I don’t know what I am ( with a giggle ), I wouldn’t know the inside of a church if I fell over it – but I ticked Christian ” ( that one WAS verbatim ) I remember it vividly, mainly because of who said it.

    2) The reason I asked in the first place was because of all the religions listed to choose from, there was no mention of Judaism. I noted this to the collectors of the census forms, and later wrote to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, who organise the taking of census, about the omission. I did not receive an answer. I did not ask any Jewish people about it – my Jewish friends ( all 4 of them ) were away at the time.

    I would suggest, just on this point alone – that Johns Lords’ projection that the next census will show we are not as ‘christian’ as many people think – or in your words – ” It seems he’s delved into fortune telling now.” will indeed be shown … as long as people are given proper choices, and are actually honest.

    The census is taken every 5 years.

    2011 Census showed 61.1 % as Christians ( of all christian denominations including Eastern Orthodox, Latter Day Saints, Lutheran etc.) ……… 7.2 % Non-Christian ( including Buddhism, Islam, Jedi … ( and a tiny % of people no doubt wrote on the census form for Judaism – which showed as only 0.5%. There are many more Jewish people here than that – but they were not listed as a choice !! . ) …… 31.7% listed as ‘no religion’ plus a rather odd category there “not stated / inadequately described” ?? …. … so the many different christians won – !! but the remainder was 38.9%.

    In any case, I do believe the next census which is next month btw – will show some shifts away from all described forms of religion. It remains however, to be seen. I rather think I would bet on Johns prediction.

    As a matter of interest, the total shown for Muslims in non-christian categories – was a measly 2.2%.

    There is a fine imposed if a household refuses to complete the census form – – and next month, for the very first time ever, identities in households will be named on the census form.

    Will leave it at that.

  114. Matters Not

    jimhaz, here I am sitting in a small town over in Syria and tonight will be like so many other nights, those Christian, radical fundamentalists will again fly over and make an already miserable life even worse. The bombs will again rain down. And they will do it in the name of their God.

    That’s the observable behaviour here in Syria (and elsewhere). That’s the trends we locals can see and have done so for years and years.

  115. Anthony Wasiukiewicz

    @Annie B. – My points are more around the construct of the article, as opposed to the finer tunings of anything else. It’s easy to say ‘oh she is this’ or ‘she is that’, It’s another to back that up with specifics, and then counter the claims. While Lord attempted to do this further down the article, there is still plenty to question and doesn’t really address the issues raised.

    As for Judaism, ABS cites numbers at 97,300
    http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/2071.0main+features902012-2013

    Other links suggest estimations are higher, but only to around 150,000. Which would only drag it out to about 0.65%.
    Hardly a variance to lose sleep over.

    Whether it was on the Census or not I cannot say. But if not it could be because many choose not to disclose as part of their religion. Making adding it in moot.

    As you say the new census is about to start. Depending on how much of it is done online, will depend on how quickly they can correlate the data. But historically takes about 2 years depending on what specific item they are correlating.

    Regardless, it’s hardly useful to make rash predictions on the future in order to justify one’s current position on a specific issue. Which was my point.

  116. Terry

    I thought you were independent! It is amazing the bigoted comments by you and your followers. You criticise her yet all go and immediately do the same. A number of references by your followers could do with fact checking. It is also amazing that the eyes and ears the world over have published such differing opinions of the interview.

    Justify an opinion was a common catch cry. All I saw was again the same ridicule that Hanson was accused off.

    Now I can guarantee that this comment if published will result in a harangue accusing me of being a racist just like her!!! But none know me and none know why I hold this opinion.

    Do some research all of you and stop spouting the same old rhetoric.

  117. Michael Taylor

    No, Terry, I’m not going to call you a racist. You can vote for whoever you want and hold whatever opinion you want.

    But I must admit that it pisses me off when people scream “I thought you were independent!” Why do you challenge that? Is it because we’re not right wing? If anybody should know if we’re independent or not it is me. And I can assure you we are.

    As for “do some research”‘ I’m fairly sure that that’s what people here have been doing. That’s why they disagree with you. They’ve actually been doing some. Now how about you do some research and convince us that Hanson is offering facts.

  118. Michael Taylor

    “I don’t take shit from anyone . . .”

    Neither do we, Dan.

  119. Michael Taylor

    Dan, we’ve been telling him that for years. It’s a lost cause, I’m afraid.

  120. Freethinker

    Terry, quote: thought you were independent

    Yes is independent and this site it is awesome, informative and with a buch of fellow bloggers that are educated and well informed.
    A pleasure to be part of it.

  121. Michael Taylor

    No worries, Dan. Let’s move on. You’re awesome when you debate the issues.

  122. Annie B

    Well said Jaquix. ( July 21, 2016 at 11:58 am )

    Australia is indeed a secular country. Accounting to no specific creed or idealism, but embracing all – – – or at least it should, and I remember a time when it did.

    I do doubt however, that “the entire population of Australia ( is ) being held to account to her ( Hansons’) dubious “values”. I would like to think and believe we are not ‘held to account’ for anything madam Hanson says, or tries to persuade.

    While the media give her so much attention, she will garner support – even if for only a day, a week, or a month, until people wake up. And they will – their / our future depends on it. …. That applies to all political persuasions in this country at this time ……. we must take a good wake up call … and respond appropriately. Preferably through the proper channels ( democratic voting etc. if true democracy here, still exists ? ) and if not that, then by making our voices heard much more stridently than ever before.

    Independent media allows us this.

  123. Annie B

    @ Anthony Wasiukiewicz.

    Your reply comments make sense. I obtained those references from a Wikipedia compilation, and as many people all over the world, are ‘on to’ what is and is not correct on any Wiki site … I took it as fairly close to the correct approximation.

    I cannot however, verify the exact numbers using the ABS site, as they don’t seem to recognise a simple question. ” 2011 census – religion statistics. Always best to make any search query short, but it came back as ” duh ? ” ( my word of course ) – “not found”. Ah well, that’s government for you.

    I do wonder ( as you suggested ) how many refuse to answer the question at all. I never answer questions on any form as to how much income I have. I have nothing to hide ( am a pensioner ) but refuse on principle to answer any question that is so intrusive.

    I still however, think that people might not answer those questions at all, or are unable to, bringing an overall wrong evaluation … but I would think that all religions ( including christianity ) would be down – next month.

    Old fashioned – moi … !! 😉

  124. Annie B

    @ Osiris …

    As you included my name in your post, I would like to reply.

    Your observations are very interesting, especially as they include the evolutionary scale with regards to religion. Not something I had considered.

    Re : “And God who stands on the highest rung of the ladder, is the ultimate level of development achieved so far.” …… There is a potential problem there.

    Many people, ( speaking only of christians at this point ) believe they are higher and mightier than their neighbours because a) neighbour does not believe at all, or b) neighbour does not go to the same church … etc., and therefore, does not hold with their particular beliefs. ( I speak of the more zealous christian here – have known many )

    Put 10 people from different christian persuasions and perspectives, into the same room – and throw in the question ” who here has the real truth ?” … I will bet my life, they will all put up their hands, and claim a ‘divine right’ to the truth. Every last one of them will. And all will claim it as the God given truth – depending on how they receive instruction ( or brain-washing ), and how much they believe the Bible and ALL that it states, how devoted they are to their pastor, minister or priest, and all will claim they are on levels higher than everyone else in the room, and everyone outside it !! ( a riot might ensue !! ). This well could be part of the evolutionary scale in religion.

    On a strictly personal note – It is the human intervention over eons that I cannot come to grips with. Thus I am agnostic. I believe there IS a higher power than us all … but what that is, and how it will manifest itself, is yet to be seen. None of us are truly all sooo clever, to presume ‘end life’ or ‘end of days’. Yet many preach it – for many different reasons – often for their own self aggrandisement or a pursuit of power over others. I rather think you would know this to be so. The Bible does say ( not sure where – would have to look it up ) … that “the day of the Lord shall come as a thief in the night ” ….. which really puts us all back in our place. It reminds us that we are mortals, and that we cannot second guess any higher power, no matter his/her form, one who is in a position that none of us understand or are anywhere near understanding.

    So be it.

  125. Godwin Rule

    Beautiful !! Annie B

    We aren’t meant to know …

    That’s its beauty.

  126. Annie B

    @ Miriam English …. your comment : “Religious books are basically Rorschach tests. … What people get from them says more about them than the books.” is more than interesting. … And I agree with you.

    It is a real rough plough to get through over 130 comments here, on this subject alone … there are so many comments I would love to address …… but I would be here until the middle of next week if I tried – by which time, all will have moved on to the next subject. 🙂

    I like to check facts, and it takes a lot of time on line. I didn’t realise there were so many ‘do away with them’ comments in the bible, attributed to Jesus, who I have always seen as a good Jewish teacher, a gentle kind person. However, his parables are lessons, analogies – and I think I would prefer to use the word ‘warnings’ as opposed to directives or parables in regards to many of his reported utterances. ( reported by several ), including the 4 apostles who, some claim were not in fact Jesus apostles at all, but 4 men who wrote books after the death of Jesus, their friend …. and they were written over many decades – each one individually, but each one relying on previous sources for their content. ( just one hypothesis put forward ).

    Even if Jesus meant every syllable of his ‘warnings’ … and if indeed they were directives ( not parables ) … one has to remember the time he was raised in, the general ‘state of the nations’ at that time, under Roman rule for the most part and the barbarism that had been a rule of life for them all for decades / centuries. So, despite his probably gentle upbringing, he was a part of that time. And he was man.

    So of course, the Bible is what it is – a book of many books, and subject to interpretation ( or not ). Guess if one read it in modern language ( e.g. Good News Bible, which alters many translations to not quite hit the same meanings !! ) … they could well be horrified – such is the violence depicted, in many chapters and verse. Then there are the many many languages it was translated from / to … which required human intervention, and therefore would have to be somewhat suspect in its’ fact giving / finding.

    Still and all, the Bible is interesting to peruse and seek statements from. I studied it heavily many decades ago … not any more.

    Always good to read your posts Miriam. ….

    Cheers ….

    p.s. Maybe got off the track here – not a word about Pauline !! Perhaps there should be less said about her – – the better ??

  127. Miriam English

    Thanks Annie. 🙂 I like reading your posts too.

    As for Jesus, he probably didn’t even exist. It’s suspicious that a great teacher who performed miracles (or at least was reputed to) and was a contentious figure and came back to life after being crucified doesn’t appear anywhere in Roman records. The Romans were obsessed with keeping records, yet there is nothing outside the Bible about him. As for the Bible, it bends truth to try to fit its stories to prophecies. We know many of the events didn’t happen and many of the apostles’ accounts contradict each other on major points.

    The clue to resolving this would appear to be the several earlier legends of a prophet born of a virgin, who had twelve apostles, performed miracles, was crucified and came back to life 3 days later, and then rise to heaven. It’s a story that was handed down over and over again. The Jesus story simply seems to have been the last copy.

  128. Kaye Lee

    It will be very interesting to see the census results for religion this time because they are moving ‘no religion’ to top of the list. Last time it was bottom, below ‘other’, and 4.7 million people put “no religion”, almost double the previous Census figure. In New Zealand’s 2006 Census, Christianity lost its spot as the majority response, with the number of people opting for the “no religion” choice jumping from 35 per cent to 42 per cent.

  129. Jaquix

    Is 135 comments on an article in two days, a record for The AIM ?

  130. Möbius Ecko

    Dan Rowden at 9:00 pm

    Having keenly read your articles and being one of the posters I go out of my way to read when I see your moniker appear, I agree with what you state in that post, except for the NoS sentence.

    “Neil of Sydney said something deeply important recently and you chose to dismiss him for it.”

    I don’t how long an online association you’ve had with Neil of Sydney but mine has been many years now, so I can confidently state I know NoS’s two personalities very well. I still don’t know if they are two separate people or Neil putting on two personas though.

    I don’t know the deeply important thing NoS said your are referring to, but I do know how he operates. In my time of having discussions with him, then ignoring him for quite a while, he has on rare occasion said something that has been correct and important, or pointed out where I was wrong in something I said. The outcomes of these rare occasions is that he then goes on to repeat these same points endlessly and very often, yet obversely never addresses where he has been proven factually wrong. In other words when he proves you wrong he never lets you or anyone else forget it, but on the very many occasions he’s proven wrong he never acknowledges it or he obfuscates on it, usually be attacking Labor on some other obtuse point.

    To this day when someone states a couple of facts NoS correctly pointed out during the Howard era, I back NoS on it and point out where the poster is wrong. But never ever expect NoS to do the reciprocal, indeed he will go on about a point that’s been proven factually incorrect for many years, no matter how many times it’s pointed out to him where it’s wrong.

    It’s this very long time of NoS repeating the same points over and over, and overwhelmingly Labor bashing, along with the considerable amount of nonsense he posts that has those like me who have had long associations with him automatically dismissing his posts, even when as you say he states something deeply important.

    For that I apologise, it’s become an automatic reaction for me and I should either make the effort to actually read what he’s posted, as painful as that is a lot of the time, or go back to completely ignoring him.

  131. Anthony Wasiukiewicz

    @Annie B – I asked the question re religion on Census, and apparently it might have to do with religions that ‘don’t receive financial support from the government’. Religions that get no government assistance aren’t included. Which is why the likes of JW’s aren’t in the list either.

    The census is designed to analyse where ‘governments should direct funding’.

    It would further explain why the ABS link posted earlier cites 100%, yet only adds up to 90% when looking at the individual metrics for religion.

    I can’t speak for Judaism, but it might have something to do with it.

    Folks are encouraged to disclose their religion to get a more accurate deception of actuals. (and in my opinion may be more useful that knowing a persons ‘favorite emoji’……)

    Hope that helps (and apologies to others for the digression).

  132. Godwin Rule

    Kaye maybe they should put a box on the census form for Fundamentalist.

  133. diannaart

    Dan Rowden

    Good that you of all people though of that; Solipsism his or her own deity.

    Are you f*cking with me? Really? If so, don’t do that. It’s a serious mistake to do that in a context like a political blog. I don’t take shit from anyone so if that’s what you’re doing – don’t. Just don’t.

    Que?????

  134. diannaart

    I hate politics. It viscerally sickens me. (me too) To be honest, you all sicken me as much as I strongly empathise – you have no idea of your hypocrisy. You all delusionally imagine that everyone on the “other side” is wrong.

    Generalisations about other people – will discuss later on in this comment.

    Neil of Sydney said something deeply important recently and you chose to dismiss him for it. You were wrong to do so. Even if he didn’t know the depth of the political sagacity of what he said, it remains instructive.

    NoS may well have given the answer to life, the universe and everything and to our profound loss, chances are we would’ve missed it. I am willing to bet that people on Neil’s segment of the political spectrum don’t listen to Neil all the time.

    I don’t listen to everything Pauline Hanson has to say either.

    I do try to take on the gist of what people are saying – even people who repel me, I may well miss out on the occasional pearl of wisdom. I do not see this as hypocritical or a loss, there are people who have a great deal of wisdom to impart. People I also respect …. and have time for.

    At this side of life I value my time. Although even when young and frivolous I would have little time for the vexatious, that’s just me.

    Now, I do believe you make a valuable contribution Dan, as Michael said, you are great at the debate, but when people go in for insulting generalisations or threats to others, I have no time for such juvenile behaviour. Keep on questioning everything and continue your observations, just don’t expect people to take everything you say seriously.

  135. Freethinker

    Well said diannaart.

  136. Miriam English

    I agree completely diannaart. I was puzzled by Dan Rowden’s obnoxiously aggressive comments, but figured he’d probably been a bit drunk. People often become belligerent then. Sadly it is so common in our society we have to just avert our eyes and pass over such chemically induced stupidity.

  137. helvityni

    I like your comments, diannaart, you are brave and your write well. Another plus, you are never boring.

  138. diannaart

    You are very kind Helvityni, thank you.

  139. Neil of Sydney:

    diannaart; You hurt me deeply too; I am very sad about this .

  140. randalstella

    That would be ‘brave’ in the terms of the dystopia.
    The dystopia totalised on petty rancour.
    And you characters want to lecture Hanson?

    Miriam, would you get it if someone called your allegation dishonourable?
    Is your sanctimony able to summon up a withdrawal? Not another excuse, a withdrawal.

    Diannaart,
    You offered a jibe, and you got a response. You could not just leave it there? Others did. Why not you?

    I’ll leave it with you.

  141. diannaart

    @randalstella

    I was threatened for making a trite comment – I consider threats for such, as a complete overreaction.

  142. Dan Rowden

    Your “trite” comment was actually deeply gratuitous and in that moment, for me, deeply hurtful, but that part isn’t your fault. Michael was right, I was in a mood. A very dark mood. About as dark as moods get, in fact. There are certain days that one ought never have to spend alone, and I had to. I don’t recall feeling so deeply alone at any time in my life, so being greeted with your ‘trite” comment set me off.

    I apologise to everyone for my tone. Everyone but diannarrt, that is; she can kiss my lilly white bum.

  143. Miriam English

    randalstella, what a peculiar thing to say. What allegation? Do you mean where I mentioned that I’d figured from his belligerence that he was probably a little intoxicated? Are you the thought police now? 🙂 I’m not allowed to mention what his overreaction looked like to me?

    Sanctimony?? 😀

    Righteousness accompanied by an unwarranted attitude of moral or social superiority; smug or hypocritical righteousness.

    I’m actually acutely aware of my many failings and don’t consider myself above anybody. I don’t consider drinking a moral failure; I merely consider it a strategic mistake. I long ago abandoned all mind altering substances because I hate being even more stupid than I already am. It wouldn’t be the first time I’ve been told that I appear to think I’m superior. Believe me, I definitely don’t consider myself superior. I suspect it’s a bit of Aspergers giving that impression.

    Dan has explained and I see I was wrong. I’m sorry for jumping to conclusions.

  144. diannaart

    Dan Rowden

    We all have our dark days of the soul; the utter loneliness of the self. Most of us manage to get through without a verbal AK47 spray.

    I have, inadvertently, struck a very sensitive nerve here. Perhaps this is a good thing, better than keeping it hidden.

  145. Annie B

    To Anthony Wasiukiewicz ….

    Re your comment : “Religions that get no government assistance aren’t included. Which is why the likes of JW’s aren’t in the list either.” I gather you are referring to Jehovahs Witnesses, and they ARE indeed included in the list of Christian denominations ranking 5th on the list from the Wikipedia “Religion in Australia” site – which also refers constantly to the census in its reporting. In 2011 JW show as only 0.4 %.

    The ABS on the link you provided – which I was able to access at the time, only showed 8 of the ‘main’ religions, and none of the others. Of those main religions Pentecostal was included which amazed me. I searched for better breakdown of religions, which came up “no match”

    And they list Judaism on that site, showing at 0.5% with a proportion of 48.9% born overseas. As mentioned before I questioned the census gatherers and wrote to the ABS about the exclusion of Judaism on the 2011 census form. I turned that census form over and over, read every word looking for some reference to Judaism – and found none. So where did the ABS get the figure for Judaism from, and also why list it in the Religious Affiliations on that ABS page, when it was never included on the census form ?

    Just interested to know. Was it a deliberate snub on the form, and corrected on the ABS stats on the link ?

    Who knows …. but now they have elevated ‘no religion’ to the top – which is going to make a huge difference in the coming census taking.

    I find it all quite interesting ….. and the ABS stats. somewhat strange.

  146. Anthony Wasiukiewicz

    @Annie B. I might be wrong. Just asked mum as she’s done census for the last couple of times and is preparing for this one. Sister is JW… I guess we’ll find out.

  147. Annie B

    Thanks Anthony …. will be interesting to see what happens next month – – on the census form, in many places, including the requirement of names to be supplied, which I believe is not mandatory at all, according to the Statistics and Census Act 8 (3). Saw that on a news bulletin, but can’t remember which one !! 🙂

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